"Dublin fell seven places from 32nd last year, the third biggest drop among any country"
While not surprising, still shocking. There was this time after the financial crash and before Covid when things really looked up, even in the North Inner City, can we go back to that time? Please?
PS: I grew up in Vienna, live in Dublin since 2000.....
> While not surprising, still shocking
Honestly I'm shocked that Dublin is so high on the list.
I'd like to say the only good thing about Dublin is seeing the back of the airport as you depart for somewhere else, but reality is the airport is a kip too. Doesn't even have a rail connection.
This would hold weight if there wasn't an artificially suppressed level of housing in the capital, coupled with short-term let's being used in lieu of social housing
Like, if Darndale suddenly had zero houses in the morning, there'd be a demand for houses in Darndale. You'd still be pushing it very hard to make the argument that "people do actually want to live in Darndale" based off that.
For Dublin CC, people want to be working highly paid jobs for tech and finance companies. Having to live there is just an unfortunate requirement imposed by said companies.
Nobody wakes up in the morning and actually thinks "wowee I want to get done 2 grand a month to rent a shoebox so I can step over junkies on my rainy walk to work so I can pay 40% of my wages in tax to receive nothing". Having to suffer Dublin's just the shitty side of the deal in it.
Those factors are a large part of it, but at the same time, everyone I know wants to live here rather than moving out to the sticks. People will pay far more for a small house here than in Mullingar, and not just because they work here.
I mean, if you're earning enough to be paying an effective tax rate of 40% (You'd need to be on something around 120 to 140 thousand per year), 2 grand a month is nothing.
At 120k a year, after 40% tax you're left with 72k, minus 2k/mo rent (cheap for Dublin tbh) and you're left with 48k.
Then you've some of the highest energy/gas bills in the developed world to pay, and slap on some gigantic VAT to boot.
You keep fuck all of your wages in Ireland, having to suffer Dublin just adds insult to injury.
Now imagine everyone earning less than 120k trying to do that. That's the point people have been trying to hammer into those who bitch about high taxes on high earners and bitch about lower earners paying less absolute as tax.
A person earning 48k is not going to be able to afford 2k rent. A person earning 48k gross pays 10.2k in tax, 21% effective tax rate. That leaves them with 37.7k net after tax, now take away the 24k in rent. 13.7k to live off of and pay everything else cost of living related.
Do you see my point?
Edit: Also, to add insult to injury, the higher your income goes, the slower the climb of absolute tax rate goes. At 120k gross, you pay 39% effective tax. At 200k that's 44%. At 300k that's 47%. At 400k that's 48%. Meanwhile, at 20k you have a 5% effective tax rate, jumps to 13% at 30k, 17% at 40k, 22% at 50k, and 27% at 60k. The jumps are much higher at the lower end of the pay scale, between minimum wage and median income and what most people would consider a decent income.
Not sure what argument you're trying to make here - I don't think low income earners should be taxed anywhere near as high as they are either.
There's no service returned at either side of the spectrum. Just a remaining pittance you can have chewed up by vat.
You made a remark about paying 40% tax and having to put up with living in Dublin. My point was that a person paying 40% in tax is on enough money to not be living in parts of Dublin having issues or in Dublin at all.
It sounded to me like the bitter nods towards the argument a lot of those bitter high income earners make whenever tax comes up. My mistake if that wasn't the case.
Won't make much of a difference, because housing is an issue in other cities/towns too, Cork, Limerick, Galway, etc. Ofc, you can choose middle of nowhere, but then you are sacrificing city benefits.
I get the idea that survey is geared towards corporate clients and employee placement, but Vienna is a wonderful city to be fair. Surprisingly affordable, excellent sights, culture & architecture. The healthcare and infrastructure is amazing too.
Vienna is great craic, has amazing sights and things to do also the drink culture is way better then ireland and also access to other European cities, bratislava is only hour way for only 20 euro, got access to skiing in the winter and can always go to Italy to get access Mediterranean.
Engaging little angels in tracksuits, watching motorbikes stolen in broad daylight, drugs on the streets 24/7 - all on the most central streets of Dublin, tons of craic. Boring cities like Zurich and Vienna will definitely pale in comparison.
You having a laugh? I know this sub has a lot of Dublin hate but the one thing Dublin doesn’t lack is shit to do. Look at everything on in the city this weekend for example
I mean you can say the same about Vienna on the weekends. There are always events happening in Dublin as there would be in Vienna
But looking at what activities you can do in Dublin compared to say London, there is not much at all in Dublin unless you have your usual hangout spots with friends and all that
Dublin City is a kip. And is becoming a bigger kip every year. Too many people who think being able to get coddle in the diggers or a toasted sandwich in Toner's makes it a uniquely quirky place with loads of character to the point where you can overlook all glaringly obvious problems.
It's filthy, criminally expensive, a nightmare to get around, and teaming with addicts and feral scrotes.
Dang need to sign up. Did anyone sign up and share it?
Don't bother singing up folks, they just give a summary, wanted the full data
Edit 2 - Link - https://pages.eiu.com/rs/753-RIQ-438/images/The-Global-Liveability-Index-Summary-Report-final.pdf?version=0. Someone let me know if it works in case people want the summary
Well deserved tbh, I lived there for many years and it's miles ahead of any other European city I lived in in terms of living quality.. if you can handle the bureaucracy and the often less than friendly people. The longer you live there and get used to it the more it pays off.
A set of millions can narrow a lot as you add more 'And's. Dublin is big, Toulouse is big, the number of people who have lived in both is probably only a couple of thousand.
Dublin will just keep dropping every year. All it takes is a bit of travel around Europe to see how far behind it is compared to other countries. I thinks aside from the feral scrotes, the extortionate prices, the filth and shocking transport infrastructure, the city is just gormless. There's absolutely no charm in Dublin city centre and I genuinely feel bad for tourists who go there thinking they are getting one version and they end up with a totally different one. It's horrible.
We're a wealthy, isolated island with an abundance of good jobs.
Dublin should be one of the best cities in the world to live in. We've totally wasted our golden ticket over the last 20 years.
Anyone over the age of 40 has very clear memories of when Ireland was a penniless, isolated island with a dearth of even medium-to-shit jobs. Things could be much better than they are and it's sad that there has been short-term decline, but things have to get *way* worse before the auld lads among us start being reminded of our childhoods.
The 80s were grim.
No one had money. Foreign holidays were rare. Took 4 hours on a good day to drive from Dublin to cork!
The 6/7 years of austerity killed the momentum of new infrastructure and house building. We were building 80000 houses a year in the mid 00s
We need to stop kidding ourselves that people will continue to see past the ugly side of Dublin. It’s mostly dirty, wet, expensive and you’re likely to get your head beaten off by some scrote. It’s even worse on the Northside…
I spent a lot of time in Vienna with work. It’s definitely very nice. But apart from the accessibility of housing - which is not as good as it used to be - there are better cities.
Dublin is a really good city to live in if you’re financially secure. There are scumbags, but they only inhabit some areas that you can avoid very easily, crime is low (non existent outside scumbag areas), primary schools are excellent and you are close to great amenities like mountains or the sea.
I realise that housing is on r/irelands mind. But if that side of your life is boxed off, ireland is higher and Vienna is lower
> Dublin is a really good city to live in if you’re financially secure.
Not really. You still have to go abroad to do a lot of things that are a given in other similarly sized and larger cities.
Few activities not including drinking and the quality of such premises are often subpar.(pingpong, bowling, boule, any sport place i've tried, cinemas etc etc)
As for Dublin being a good city
Public transport is pretty bad.
Housing is a legitimate disaster.
Prices of everything are insane.
Online shopping is completely reliant on the whims of amazon.
Even though it's growing, the selection of stores is still subpar compared to medium towns in other countries(furniture, electronics, beds, etc)
Lots of crime and sketchy shit going on everywhere in city center riddled with heavy drugs.
Homeless people are pushed to the city center to beg agressively instead of being actually helped.
City is built for cars, not people (tbh, this is getting better surprisingly quickly)
City is dirty.
Healthcare is pretty bad for how heavily taxed people are.
Childcare is incredibly expensive.
The craic can be great, tbh that's why i've lasted until now and there is a charm and beauty that is really unique to here.
But when it comes to quality of life standpoint, even in a 100-140k household, i was doing worse than a mcdonalds employee in my home country would do alone in a city with similar amenities (outside of nightlife which is crap) with a relatively low rent by dublin standard.
I could go on, but I dont see a point... I'm just tired...
Honestly, i genuinely think solving the housing crises alone would over time solve 90% of said issues. But i can't imagine that happening at this point.
Dublin feels frustratingly close to being a great city but i wouldnt even call it good right now. Not for most people.
Vienna doing everything it can to make up for Fritzl and Hitler.
r/Ireland doing everything it can to keep the, "Dublin is a kip", gang feed and watered.
Housing isn't really the only metric for quality of life though.
If 10 cities have similar rent prices, and similar housing issues, you look across the board at other benefits or day to day concepts, be it transport, hobbies, architecture, food prices etc etc.
I picked Vancouver because I assumed it was the worst, but rte mentioned Zurich and at a glance it doesn't look that far behind [https://www.zoopla.co.uk/overseas/property/switzerland/zurich/](https://www.zoopla.co.uk/overseas/property/switzerland/zurich/) definitely higher than Dublin though, you could buy 2 houses in dublin for the price of some of the 3 bed apartments there.
Vancouver is number 8 in the top ten.
If you want another example, Melbourne is number 4 on the list - https://www.afr.com/property/residential/why-melbourne-s-housing-crisis-will-get-worse-before-its-gets-better-20240429-p5fn9h
"Dublin fell seven places from 32nd last year, the third biggest drop among any country" While not surprising, still shocking. There was this time after the financial crash and before Covid when things really looked up, even in the North Inner City, can we go back to that time? Please? PS: I grew up in Vienna, live in Dublin since 2000.....
Dublin 2014-19 was probably at its best. Really going downhill fast now
Would've said late 90s to mid-00s myself, serious craic up until the recession began. Then only serious crack.
Couldn’t agree more. Not only was it livable and affordable but the vibe was energetic, increasingly diverse and full of optimism.
> While not surprising, still shocking Honestly I'm shocked that Dublin is so high on the list. I'd like to say the only good thing about Dublin is seeing the back of the airport as you depart for somewhere else, but reality is the airport is a kip too. Doesn't even have a rail connection.
Fuckin lol. Part of the reason it's so expensive to live here is that people actually do want to live here.
This would hold weight if there wasn't an artificially suppressed level of housing in the capital, coupled with short-term let's being used in lieu of social housing Like, if Darndale suddenly had zero houses in the morning, there'd be a demand for houses in Darndale. You'd still be pushing it very hard to make the argument that "people do actually want to live in Darndale" based off that. For Dublin CC, people want to be working highly paid jobs for tech and finance companies. Having to live there is just an unfortunate requirement imposed by said companies. Nobody wakes up in the morning and actually thinks "wowee I want to get done 2 grand a month to rent a shoebox so I can step over junkies on my rainy walk to work so I can pay 40% of my wages in tax to receive nothing". Having to suffer Dublin's just the shitty side of the deal in it.
Those factors are a large part of it, but at the same time, everyone I know wants to live here rather than moving out to the sticks. People will pay far more for a small house here than in Mullingar, and not just because they work here.
I mean, if you're earning enough to be paying an effective tax rate of 40% (You'd need to be on something around 120 to 140 thousand per year), 2 grand a month is nothing.
At 120k a year, after 40% tax you're left with 72k, minus 2k/mo rent (cheap for Dublin tbh) and you're left with 48k. Then you've some of the highest energy/gas bills in the developed world to pay, and slap on some gigantic VAT to boot. You keep fuck all of your wages in Ireland, having to suffer Dublin just adds insult to injury.
Now imagine everyone earning less than 120k trying to do that. That's the point people have been trying to hammer into those who bitch about high taxes on high earners and bitch about lower earners paying less absolute as tax. A person earning 48k is not going to be able to afford 2k rent. A person earning 48k gross pays 10.2k in tax, 21% effective tax rate. That leaves them with 37.7k net after tax, now take away the 24k in rent. 13.7k to live off of and pay everything else cost of living related. Do you see my point? Edit: Also, to add insult to injury, the higher your income goes, the slower the climb of absolute tax rate goes. At 120k gross, you pay 39% effective tax. At 200k that's 44%. At 300k that's 47%. At 400k that's 48%. Meanwhile, at 20k you have a 5% effective tax rate, jumps to 13% at 30k, 17% at 40k, 22% at 50k, and 27% at 60k. The jumps are much higher at the lower end of the pay scale, between minimum wage and median income and what most people would consider a decent income.
Not sure what argument you're trying to make here - I don't think low income earners should be taxed anywhere near as high as they are either. There's no service returned at either side of the spectrum. Just a remaining pittance you can have chewed up by vat.
You made a remark about paying 40% tax and having to put up with living in Dublin. My point was that a person paying 40% in tax is on enough money to not be living in parts of Dublin having issues or in Dublin at all. It sounded to me like the bitter nods towards the argument a lot of those bitter high income earners make whenever tax comes up. My mistake if that wasn't the case.
I think the real test is get all the tech companies to offer 100% remote and see how many want to live in Dublin still.
Won't make much of a difference, because housing is an issue in other cities/towns too, Cork, Limerick, Galway, etc. Ofc, you can choose middle of nowhere, but then you are sacrificing city benefits.
A lot of people don't want to LIVE in Dublin, people just put up with it cuz salaries are good.
No one wants to live in Dublin. It's too crowded.
Absolutely shocked that Dublin is even on a list like this, it’s a complete kip and rapidly going downhill
You are a misery merchant.
Naaa the Northside and west of saint Patrick's has been a dump all that time... You would need to go back to 2006
I get the idea that survey is geared towards corporate clients and employee placement, but Vienna is a wonderful city to be fair. Surprisingly affordable, excellent sights, culture & architecture. The healthcare and infrastructure is amazing too.
close to lakes and mountains
My sense is that these cities are very well run but maybe a bit boring? Like Zurich is wonderful, but you can't knock too much craic out of it.
Vienna is great craic, has amazing sights and things to do also the drink culture is way better then ireland and also access to other European cities, bratislava is only hour way for only 20 euro, got access to skiing in the winter and can always go to Italy to get access Mediterranean.
Oh man - to be at the centre of Europe and be able to take night trains 
And so clean
What craic are you having in Dublin these days?
Engaging little angels in tracksuits, watching motorbikes stolen in broad daylight, drugs on the streets 24/7 - all on the most central streets of Dublin, tons of craic. Boring cities like Zurich and Vienna will definitely pale in comparison.
You having a laugh? I know this sub has a lot of Dublin hate but the one thing Dublin doesn’t lack is shit to do. Look at everything on in the city this weekend for example
I mean you can say the same about Vienna on the weekends. There are always events happening in Dublin as there would be in Vienna But looking at what activities you can do in Dublin compared to say London, there is not much at all in Dublin unless you have your usual hangout spots with friends and all that
Drop kicking canadian tourists
[удалено]
Vienna is the most boring city I’ve ever been to 😴
I've lived there and it is unbelievably dull... The people were also zero craic
"Dublin. You're only one 13 year old away from the nearest A&E"
Does that factor in the 18 hour wait in an A&E trolley?
Dublin City is a kip. And is becoming a bigger kip every year. Too many people who think being able to get coddle in the diggers or a toasted sandwich in Toner's makes it a uniquely quirky place with loads of character to the point where you can overlook all glaringly obvious problems. It's filthy, criminally expensive, a nightmare to get around, and teaming with addicts and feral scrotes.
[Here’s the actual source of the index](https://www.eiu.com/n/campaigns/global-liveability-index-2024/) for anyone that’s interested.
Dublin third biggest drop in rankings behind Tel Aviv and Miami ha
Dang need to sign up. Did anyone sign up and share it? Don't bother singing up folks, they just give a summary, wanted the full data Edit 2 - Link - https://pages.eiu.com/rs/753-RIQ-438/images/The-Global-Liveability-Index-Summary-Report-final.pdf?version=0. Someone let me know if it works in case people want the summary
Oh jeez I just saw that! Very frustrating.
Also no point clicking on the article as it doesn’t have anything either
Well deserved tbh, I lived there for many years and it's miles ahead of any other European city I lived in in terms of living quality.. if you can handle the bureaucracy and the often less than friendly people. The longer you live there and get used to it the more it pays off.
what other cities have you lived in?
Quite a few around central Europe as well as Dublin, London because of work. I don't want to be specific as I'll dox myself
yeah you'll have people tracking you down by saying you lived in the same city as millions of other people
Hm? If you just lived in Dublin sure.. but when you say you've lived in X, Y and Z too it gets more likely
A set of millions can narrow a lot as you add more 'And's. Dublin is big, Toulouse is big, the number of people who have lived in both is probably only a couple of thousand.
Are you sure you're talking about Dublin?
On the “Kip” scale Dublin should be at least 100th place.
Dublin will just keep dropping every year. All it takes is a bit of travel around Europe to see how far behind it is compared to other countries. I thinks aside from the feral scrotes, the extortionate prices, the filth and shocking transport infrastructure, the city is just gormless. There's absolutely no charm in Dublin city centre and I genuinely feel bad for tourists who go there thinking they are getting one version and they end up with a totally different one. It's horrible.
How is Dublin even on the list at all.
Buy low sell high. "*Wait what's going on*"
It’s in the top 50?!
It's on the list at all?
In fairness it's a remarkable feat for us to be in the top 40. From where we were in the 80s and late 00s/ early 10s it's some turn around.
We're a wealthy, isolated island with an abundance of good jobs. Dublin should be one of the best cities in the world to live in. We've totally wasted our golden ticket over the last 20 years.
Anyone over the age of 40 has very clear memories of when Ireland was a penniless, isolated island with a dearth of even medium-to-shit jobs. Things could be much better than they are and it's sad that there has been short-term decline, but things have to get *way* worse before the auld lads among us start being reminded of our childhoods.
The 80s were grim. No one had money. Foreign holidays were rare. Took 4 hours on a good day to drive from Dublin to cork! The 6/7 years of austerity killed the momentum of new infrastructure and house building. We were building 80000 houses a year in the mid 00s
Ireland was hasn’t been a penniless island for a long time.
It's living memory for some - and not only for ancient folks. I'm only in my early 40s and I can remember it clearly.
That really doesn't excuse how little we're doing to catch up now.
We were bankrupt 12 years ago. We've done alright
We could have started building metro and developing apartments but chose austerity.
The Troika wouldn't have let us. We lost fiscal control. Let's not try to pretend otherwise Also we have enough apartments. Need to build houses.
Where are all these apartments ?!?
We don't have enough apartments, houses, or anything really.
If the ranking was about teenager scums making life hell for people on road dublin would have been ranked 1
We need to stop kidding ourselves that people will continue to see past the ugly side of Dublin. It’s mostly dirty, wet, expensive and you’re likely to get your head beaten off by some scrote. It’s even worse on the Northside…
Can’t believe Dublin is so high!
I spent a lot of time in Vienna with work. It’s definitely very nice. But apart from the accessibility of housing - which is not as good as it used to be - there are better cities. Dublin is a really good city to live in if you’re financially secure. There are scumbags, but they only inhabit some areas that you can avoid very easily, crime is low (non existent outside scumbag areas), primary schools are excellent and you are close to great amenities like mountains or the sea. I realise that housing is on r/irelands mind. But if that side of your life is boxed off, ireland is higher and Vienna is lower
> Dublin is a really good city to live in if you’re financially secure. Not really. You still have to go abroad to do a lot of things that are a given in other similarly sized and larger cities.
What do you mean, what kind of things. Honest question. I live in Dublin but spend a lot of time on the continent.
Few activities not including drinking and the quality of such premises are often subpar.(pingpong, bowling, boule, any sport place i've tried, cinemas etc etc) As for Dublin being a good city Public transport is pretty bad. Housing is a legitimate disaster. Prices of everything are insane. Online shopping is completely reliant on the whims of amazon. Even though it's growing, the selection of stores is still subpar compared to medium towns in other countries(furniture, electronics, beds, etc) Lots of crime and sketchy shit going on everywhere in city center riddled with heavy drugs. Homeless people are pushed to the city center to beg agressively instead of being actually helped. City is built for cars, not people (tbh, this is getting better surprisingly quickly) City is dirty. Healthcare is pretty bad for how heavily taxed people are. Childcare is incredibly expensive. The craic can be great, tbh that's why i've lasted until now and there is a charm and beauty that is really unique to here. But when it comes to quality of life standpoint, even in a 100-140k household, i was doing worse than a mcdonalds employee in my home country would do alone in a city with similar amenities (outside of nightlife which is crap) with a relatively low rent by dublin standard. I could go on, but I dont see a point... I'm just tired... Honestly, i genuinely think solving the housing crises alone would over time solve 90% of said issues. But i can't imagine that happening at this point. Dublin feels frustratingly close to being a great city but i wouldnt even call it good right now. Not for most people.
Vienna doing everything it can to make up for Fritzl and Hitler. r/Ireland doing everything it can to keep the, "Dublin is a kip", gang feed and watered.
That list is a bit of fluff, I can't believe it gets so much traction. Most of the cities in the top 10 have housing crises as bad as Ireland's
Housing isn't really the only metric for quality of life though. If 10 cities have similar rent prices, and similar housing issues, you look across the board at other benefits or day to day concepts, be it transport, hobbies, architecture, food prices etc etc.
But they probably have white water rafting facilities.
>as bad as Ireland's Doubt
Not just that, it's not even close!
I mean...... you can take a look for yourself [https://www.zillow.com/vancouver-bc/](https://www.zillow.com/vancouver-bc/)
Vancouver is a cherry picked extreme example and not even mentioned in the article (which as no link to the full list).
I picked Vancouver because I assumed it was the worst, but rte mentioned Zurich and at a glance it doesn't look that far behind [https://www.zoopla.co.uk/overseas/property/switzerland/zurich/](https://www.zoopla.co.uk/overseas/property/switzerland/zurich/) definitely higher than Dublin though, you could buy 2 houses in dublin for the price of some of the 3 bed apartments there.
Check rents though. Dublin is one of the worst in Europe in terms of rent to salary ratio.
And that's before you consider that Dublin lacks things that are normal even in much smaller cities abroad.
And while it might not be that much larger than Dublin, it sure as hell feels that way.
Vancouver is number 8 in the top ten. If you want another example, Melbourne is number 4 on the list - https://www.afr.com/property/residential/why-melbourne-s-housing-crisis-will-get-worse-before-its-gets-better-20240429-p5fn9h
Melbourne has a metro population similar to that of the entire republic of Ireland.
But unlike Ireland, those cities actually have something to offer for the high cost of living.