I believe if the parents weren't wealthy doctors the narrative in the press would have been entirely different and they would have been charged with negligence
Calpol is paracetamol, not a sedative. "They drugged their kids" gives an excessive negative impression, even if it wasn't strictly speaking a good thing to do.
I second this, when you see the shannon mathews case which happended at the same time and how that whole community was treated awfully compared to the Mc Canns
Absolutely true. The whole country shut down when five students were killed in a balcony collapse in Berkeley. It was a tragedy, but I can guarantee you if it was five teenagers from the north side in gran Canaria, you wouldn't have had flags at half mast and the Taoiseach making speeches.
Blond hair, blue eyed white girl? Yeah I’m going to say we would’ve.
Jay Slater wasn’t from a wealthy family and there’s been big coverage about him.
Now, if the child was an ethnic minority, that’s a can of worms I’m not sure I’d want to open
My own theory on Jay Slater coverage is that the Daily mail especially have seen absolutely massive clicks on stories about missing people. Probably starting with Nicola Bulley in Jan 23, then you had the TV doctor Dr Mosley a few weeks ago, you have Sarah Everard too but that was a murder and not just simply someone going missing. There might have been others.
The Daily Mail goes absolutely crazy on these stories now, dozens of articles, I guess 'cos people click on them innit?
Yeah. I remember the following news story to the McCann disappearance on several days was something like "12 children dead in Iraq after shelling" which was depressing. They didn't get names. Or faces. Or an investigation... or even mentioned on the news ever again. Just a statistic.
Depends on the age. A 12 year old who can understand whats happening and can call me if theres any problems, sure. A 3 year old? Fuck no, the thoughts of them waking up in a strange place with no one around would terrify me.
That’s basically it. I have a 12 year old who I would leave alone for an hour or two (with his phone) and I have a 5 year old who I wouldn’t leave alone on holidays for any amount of time!
That's what got me .the thought of them waking up and not knowing where they were .also I would NEVER rely on other people to check my kids ..particularly the more drink was taken. I never left mine on any holiday.
Couldn't agree more. I would have been left looking after my younger siblings around that age, maybe 12/13 and up. My parents would never be far though, like they'd stay at the apartment hotel's bar, never more than a couple of minutes from us. We'd just chill watching the Simpsons in Spanish
In butlins/mosney everyone done it. They had assigned staff walking among the chalets to listen out for crying babies or children. If they heard something there was a digital sign beside the cabaret stage and a chalet number would appear for the attention of the parents. Talking 1980s. Would I leave my kids alone now - absolutely not
This is still done often I feel. When the babe is still young enough that all they do is sleep, eat, poo, cry, etc they pretty much do the same wherever they go and have no bedtime. They can be cared for easily enough and sleep right through a dinner out.
Every row was regularly walked day and night in Mosney. Even the staff chalets. On a hot night I used to leave my door on an upper landing open and often had to let security know it was cool.... Figuratively and literally
Yeah I remember that at butlins .my parenrs and grandparents went out for a hr with my brother an left me in chalet with tv and snacks. As i wasnt feeling to clever.remember the staff walking past regularly. And chalet next door getting a shout as kid started crying.
yea i remember alot of my friends parents left them in hotel/apartment rooms and at butlins maybe in the late 90s/early 2000s but none of us would ever leave our kids now! the mccann case showed us all your worst nightmare is real.
>the mccann case showed us all your worst nightmare is real.
The McCann family were also astonishingly, unbelievably unlucky. They were almost definitely more likely to be struck by lightning.
As someone who was helicopter parented, I think helicopter parenting is more of a risk than predators a lot of the time.
They left their children who were 3 and 2 years old in a building they couldn't even see.
They were extremely unlucky to have this happen but I bet they wouldn't have let them run around outside in a lighting storm.
Me and my cousins were always brought along to the pubs on holidays in the mid 2000's, we'd blow about 50 quid on pool and air hockey while still being within earshot of the adults having drinks. I wouldn't be a fan of that type of holiday now but I'd probably still bring the kids with me to a pub rather than leave them alone in an apartment. Maddies case really opened people's eyes to the fact that you have no idea if someone is watching you and planning to steal your babies.
I was going to say no way, but after reading your comment I do remember me & my sisters being alone at least one night on holidays in a carvan park here in Ireland. The oldest was maybe 12 so I guess that's acceptable babysitting age..at least in the 90s it was.
That's what my parents did the time that we went to Mosney when we were little (the 80s). Apparently it was standard in the apartment blocks and a member of staff would patrol each block. If a child was heard crying, an announcement was made in the pub that guests from apartment x needed to their child.
That's confirmed by another comment, which seems to have better info than me. I'm only going off what my mother told me, because I was 3 when we were there and don't remember much about the trip.
Yep. I was a bit older than my brother and sister so I was allowed to stay up and head to the club to play with the other older kids. There'd be red coats walking up and down the chalet lines listening out for crying babies and an announcement would be made in the pub when they reported back that there's a crying child in chalet number 12.
Yeah. Standards are completely different. When I was eight, my parents would leave me looking after my four siblings (youngest was six months), so one parent would bring another to work. Often alone for two or three hours with them, twice a day.
Bananas. I wouldn't leave my 14 year old alone with a baby now. Completely unfair on them, if the kid had a serious medical problem.
This is what I don't get. I'd never even go to the end of the road to the shop once my wee lad is in bed so why would I head out for drinks in a foreign country?
It hinges on the weeness of the lad and the lad himself. There's some 11 year olds who could be left I'm their room with a phone to ring their folks if they wanted them to come back. There's some 14 year olds you couldn't trust with a blunt spoon if left unattended.
(I'm guessing at ages here, my eldest is 5 so we're nowhere near the luxury of leaving the kids alone unattended and won't know better for a few more years).
Used to get left in hotels while my parents would head out. They'd likely be in a hotel bar/restaurant that was still on the premises, or our at a nearby restaurant. It wouldn't have been as easy to find my parents if I had ever gone to look. But when we stayed in Trabolgan they couldn't go that far, and there were always enough families around if we ever got spooked.
That to me is unnatural. I’m definitely a protective parent and I realise that so I’ll always encourage my son to take risks etc. I could never do this. There are so many variables. Anything can happen. It only takes a split second.
It's mad, because my mam absolutely is a helicopter parent who would have built me the tallest bubble wrap tower that she could. But for some reason this was just the norm for us, odd the differences in thinking for her, haha. I was born in 94, so this would have been late nineties early 00's.
94 also. Myself and the father, are very much risk takers. Dangerous jobs, always having accidents getting hurt etc. But even the other day, I was helping my son (4) get something, he was standing on my back and my dad nearly through a wobbler. I think my parents are even more cautious with their grandkids than they were with us. On a tangent. Anyway I’ll never understand parents leaving there kids unsupervised like that, I could never do it.
Not sure if this is a thing that any one nationality does. But my partner and I were in a hotel in Galway once, and we were walking back to our room late at night and a little girl of about 7 years old was bawling her eyes out crying out for her mom. I stayed with her in the hallway while my partner went to check downstairs in the bar to inquire about a mom missing her kid. Sure enough, the very well-to-do posh Irish mother was down at the bar having a great time. He couldn’t help himself and told her off for leaving her young daughter alone in the room. The kid had woken up in an empty room and was in a panic thinking her mom had abandoned her, so my partner was right to give her hell about it IMO. Hopefully that kid is alright today, this was about 6 years ago and we still think about that.
This is different but my cousin used to get reslly pissed she was about 17 like messy pissed and went into the wrong apt and just got into bed and some english youngfella was babysitting his 2 siblings and woke her up about 12 and said you better go now my mam and da be back soonshell never live that one down
Absolutely not. Those kids they left were babies and 4 years old! It’s just mad to me they thought that was ok. Even if nothing had happened imagine waking up at that age in a different country, apartment and being alone.
Yep. My parents and aunties all done it when we were in Salou. About 10 kids left in the apartment with an average age of 9. Oldest would’ve been my cousin who was 13 at the time.
There was a crazy thunder storm and the power went out in the whole building. As you’d expect, carnage erupted, mostly screaming.
We often reminisce on it and have a good laugh though
Still at mostly 9-13 year olds, I feel like that’s a completely different kettle of fish. At east Kidnapping aside, there’d be less chance of accidents/issues happening that wouldn’t immediately be addressed like sick baby/injury etc
Today’s world is so different too with instant access of phone, locked doors, decent security system, livestream nanny cams etc but I’d still not leave my THREE yr old by themselves! Not with a Locked or unlocked door for that matter
This regret must haunt the parents!
As a single parent some of the most boring holiday evenings were hanging out on my own on the balcony while my son was asleep.
It’s basic parenting to ensure that your child is safe. The children were more likely to wake up with wet nappies or thirsty and would have been scared in an unfamiliar environment.
The McCanns had no excuse- they were part of a group that were away and could have easily taken turns to stay with the children. They all left their children unsupervised in unlocked apartments every night of the holiday.
If they were more working class they media would have torn them to shreds.
Yeah I'd be much less worried about child abduction than a scared child waking up and lying there crying wondering where everyone was, or wandering out of the house to look for me.
I feel like a lot of Irish parents in the 80s particularly used to bring us to the pubs and stick us in a corner with some crisps while they got drunk so while I don’t think many would leave kids home alone, they probably weren’t exemplary examples of parenting either 😂
I am not much older than she would be now and I don't know a single parent of someone my age who would have left us alone at home under the age of 12, let alone in a foreign country at night
In fairness, I’m 25 so about 5 years older and from about 10 onwards myself and pretty much my entire friend group would have been left to our own devices during the summer - this was in Dublin which might make a difference, as I guess we’d hop on the luas/dart a lot. To be honest, I think our parents put way too much trust in us but I guess we survived😅
Even 20 years ago, that wasn't a done thing, at least not in my family. My youngest sibling was a toddler and I would have been in my late teens. I was left to babysit often as the kid wasn't the best behaved restaurants.
It was a weird thing to do when it happened 20 years ago and it's still weird today, like others have pointed out if maddies parents weren't doctors they would have been crucified by the press.
They were crucified by the press. Some papers had them persecuted with constant lurid allegations they'd made up.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/pound-550-000-damages-for-mccanns-over-madeleine-stories-797875.html
I remember in the 80s, my parents leaving my brother and I in a hotel room and heading down to dinner, but we were 11 and 9. I discovered that if you pressed 0 and asked for coke (the drink kind), they would bring it to your room, as many as you wanted. By the time my parents came back, my brother was jumping from bed to bed, jacked up on sugar!
My parents wouldn't have left us in a hotel like that at the age that the McCanns were, but they did absolutely pop into the shop and leave us in the car, for example. We were told to lock the doors and don't touch anything.
I think the fact that all their friends were doing it, and they could see the resort apartment from where they were eating, made them think it was OK. They really were different times. I remember being left to babysit a neighbours 2 toddlers and a baby for a weekend when I was around 15.
I would imagine the McCanns have tortured themselves with that decision every waking moment for the last 20 years. I imagine they would do anything to go back and make a different decision.
I just finished watching the Netflix doco too. Parts of it, about the child sexual abuse rings for example, were just so disturbing. That poor Portuguese woman who found the picture of her son on that website on the dark web was just so devastating. I couldn't sleep after watching that episode.
I wouldn't leave my phone, passport or laptop in an unlocked room in a foreign (or local) resort or hotel (the McCannes left the door opening on to the patio unlocked that night).
I remember being left with my brother in a hotel room - just watching telly while the parents went to the restaurant within the hotel - he was 8, I'd have been 5 or 6
No way in hell I'd do that with my kids now a days. Like my wife and I were at a hotel last year and we took turns heading down to the bar in the hotel for a drink after we put the kids to bed just for some down time.
As I see it, you have to make adjustments when you have kids. You either A) change how you do things and bring the kids with you or b) pay for someone to look after them. There isn't an option c of "sure it's grand, it's just down the road/they're asleep" etc.
Not today but 30 odd years ago it would have been less unusual. Our parents didn’t do it but when I asked them about it a few years ago (probably in relation to the McCanns) my mother said it wasn’t as uncommon as you’d think.
As a parent now though the farthest I’d go is the balcony to have a drink after they’re in bed. I can’t fathom just going for a drink and leaving them there.
I can’t imagine the pain the McCanns have gone through but as some others have commented they got a much easier ride as part of the upper (upper middle maybe?) class in terms of how they were portrayed.
I think so that's totally different to an hotel room they should have hired a baby sitter in that case as it would be a far different situation than an hotel room.
Oh like the apartment front door was around the corner facing a road. Like a 5 minute walk by the looks of it. I always thought they could fully see the apartment where they were sitting.
https://images.app.goo.gl/U8Y4kVJwwxRfwAyh9
Not a hope. When they’re that age you need to be within earshot and you need to be able to check on them in the night. Do you know how often toddlers get out of bed for bad dreams/need a wee/want a drink/saw a shadow/dropped a teddy etc… that’s just at home, on a holiday I’d imagine that is ten times worse because of the exciting new environment and wanting to be in on the excitement. I wouldnt do it now and I wouldn’t have done it then either.
I remember in the 70s on a family holiday in Fethard on sea, mum and dad went to the hotel bar, which was across the road. I was the eldest, aged 10/ 11, and had to go get mum as the baby was crying.
Sure I remember one night in Portugal my family was in the pub. Mother went home with my brother who was sick. I was feeling tired and told my da I wanted to go home. Then some random bald fella asks what hotel we were staying in, my da tells him and he says he's going back there and sure he'll bring me. My da sees no issues with it. Fella pops me up on his shoulders and off we went, brought me right to our door and my ma was very confused and annoyed.
My da turns up a few hours later and my other brother isn't with him. When my ma asks where my brother is he says he's staying in another woman's apartment since apparently he's mates with her son.
Madness you wouldn't get away with nowadays.
There was a thread here where someone asked if their parents were the only ones who left their kids outdoors all day at a very young age. Was actually quite sad. Another thread of a woman who lives in a building with an internal area for kids where parents leave their kids alone for the day. There’s plenty of people out there who would do it you’re lidding yourself if u think they wouldn’t.
This is not a nationality based thing. Its an are you a shit parent thing.
If the McCanns hadnt been doctors and were a working class family they would have got slammed
An abduction is not the only thing to worry about though. In the 80s, 2 parents left their 3 kids at home to go fir a drink. Pub was 2 mins away. One of the children, woke up and began playing with matches. All 3 kids died. Always remember my mother saying you could see the kids finger marks on the bedroom door
I’d rather have kids up late and sleep in buggies/on chairs or bring drinks to the room than leave my kids alone. My MIL told me how a local pub used to play cartoons on a Sunday so they’d go up there for drinks. Bottles of tk and a few crisps yo do them while they were there. That’s quite a universal experience for Irish people I find especially those raised in the 80s or 90s. I’m sure some do leave kids but I’d imagine most wouldn’t
My parents did it in a hotel in the early 90s. I was about 3 and my brother would have been 1. I remember because he woke up crying one night and I started wandering the corridor trying to find them and got lost. I wouldn’t do it in a million years with my kids, but I do think it was more normal then and the McCann story put a stop to it.
Mine did but that was in the 70s UK. They stayed in a hotel went down to the bar for drinks and kept popping up to check on us I was 4 and my sister 1 - one time I actually fell over trying to open the door (handle was high up)cut my head open the screaming got the whole hotel running up and I was taken to a and e. They were shit parents ..many other occasions like this. I truly think kids that age are too young to be left alone.The Mccann story is weird anyway they clearly had friends in high places .
Labour party. I think they might have been well acquainted with the Blairs or maybe Gordon Brown. The "weird" connection is the Portuguese police didn't want it reported in the media within the first 24 hours but it was breaking & headline news in the UK by morning.
I worked as a receptionist in a hotel in Galway years ago and the amount of people who would put their kids to bed, come downstairs and go to the restaurant/bar for a few hours was shocking. The hotel had a "babysitting" service. Which involved leaving the phone off the hook in the room and us on Reception dialling in every 10 minutes to hear if they were awake. So many parents were OK with this. This was probably only 3-4 years after Madeilline McCann's disappearance so still fresh in everyone's mind. And apparently the McCanns and the rest of the party were checking back in with the kids every little while and she still went missing. I absolutely HATED having to be responsible for those kids in that hotel. Still can't believe to this day (now i have little kids myself) that people would do that.
Eta - these kids were often young. Very young. I remember a couple leaving a baby to go for dinner (maybe 6 months old).
It wasn't different back then.
20 years ago I had children the same age as the
McCanns. I was horrified that they left them alone to go for a meal.
I wouldn't have left mine alone in the car at the front parking spaces of the school to go around the side to collect the older child. I wouldn't even have left them asleep in their rooms when I had a shower unless my husband was home and could hear them, or unless I brought the baby monitor in with me to the bathroom.
Their Dad at the time said you would leave your child for longer if you cut the grass while they were asleep and that always stuck with me because most people I knew wouldn't even do that in their own house. They would wait until someone was there with them, use a monitor, or cut the grass when th kids were awake and somewhere you could keep an eye.
Age 2, 3, 4 is just too young to be left unsupervised, out of eyeline, and out of earshot for even a few minutes. They need to be at least school age for that, but 7/8 ish was when I felt comfortable with it.
For the record, I am not a helicopter parent - I think I'm quite laid back about most things, but a toddler is too young to not have someone watching or listening.
I do shower when my 1.5 year old is asleep (because it’s the only bloody chance I get) but the monitor is in the bathroom with me and the sound is turned the whole way up. I don’t even like being down the back of the garden when he’s asleep, he’s just too young to be out of earshot.
I agree, my son is also around the same age as Madeleine and we would have brought him away that same Summer and I could never imagine leaving him at that age. In my experience, those types of sun holidays are very accommodating for children, you can easily have the baby beside you in the pram when out for a meal and there’s often entertainment in the evenings geared towards the little ones. Ok so they might be awake later than a regular bedtime at home but they’re on holidays, it would be madness to expect them to keep the exact same routine (this was one of the reasons the McCanns gave for leaving them).
It’s every parent’s worst nightmare to imagine a stranger would break in and kidnap the child in the middle of the night but so many other more likely things could have happened to them at that age if they woke up and found the parents weren’t there. They could have very easily hurt themselves.
That would have been my main concern. Someone breaking in and kidnapping them seems far fetched, but them waking and screaming the house down when no-one can hear them is very likely. And at that age they can get up and escape and climb things. Turn your back for seconds at that age and they could be anywhere.
In retrospect the British tabloids were working overtime to present them as victims and overlook they were selfish, neglectful and uncooperative with the investigation.
Had they been working-class, or not white, they never would have gained public or tabloid sympathy. But the angle that Doctors, medical professional, could be capable of neglect, wasn't favourable in the 00's.
It was presented as something terrible that just happened to them, like a tornado or other natural disaster…but it couldn’t have happened if they didn’t leave their babies and toddler alone. I don’t often speak on the McCanns because their lives must be utter hell, but their selfish decision cost their little girl her life. They were supposed to protect her and they didn’t take that responsibility seriously. If they’d been Gazza and Katahni, supermarket workers from council flats, they would have gotten jail time for neglect.
I live in a village that’s popular with tourists and visitors during the summer. Quite often parents will head to the pub leaving groups of kids as young as 5 or 6 unsupervised playing on the streets until closing time.
It’s all fun and games until…
I travelled from Liverpool to Cork on my own at the age of 13. Which entailed getting the ferry to Dublin then cross country on the train. I know this is older than Madeline but I have never met a parent that would do this. It is one of the best personal experiences my parents gave me.
We went to Spain and Portugal as kids with the parents and they had us with them everywhere. Even in the bars at night. I definitely would not leave my young child in a hotel room alone even if I knew she would only sleep.
I’m not Irish, but on holidays in Europe I’ve seen plenty of parents leave their children whilst going out for a meal. Hotels employ people with no background checks. They could be anyone. Or from anywhere. From the cleaning staff to the waiters. Schengen zone allows for all kinds of miscreants to travel anywhere. Staff chat about guests. There’s no security in the vast majority of places. It’s absolute madness leaving your children alone like that.
Mine never did, I was regularly out until God knows what hour around drunk adults as a toddler.
Reminds me, I don't think I've seen a binge drinking culture so openly accepted and incidious as boomers with their wine in the 80s and 90s.
Its like because it was mostly wine and not vodka or beer it was acceptable.
Maybe the best take is to get a sitter and neither leave small children unattended nor take them into adult situations with you
Depends on a lot of different factors. My parents' generation would have had huge freedom as children that they did not extend to their own kids. A lot of the moral panics regarding children began in the 1980s, and parents over, say, 60, today would have grown up with that as background noise.
My parents and their pals often went to Portugal with young kids as it was seen as an ideal family location. Low crime, golf, amenities for kids and families, during the day, etc. Often one or two families would bring an au pair or child-minder down with them so the parents could all go out for dinner. Some people absolutely would have left their kids alone for dinner but checked on them frequently. It was simply the normal way of behaving back then.
To understand the huge cultural shift in time, my old man went to school in England for a time. (Joys of emigration.) They were playing rugby at a rival school and warned if they forgot to lock the bedroom door they might get molested. It was accepted that this was a bad thing, but if it happened to somebody, it was their own fault for not taking precautions.
When those people became adults, they were - understandably - quite protective of their own children. That wasn't an overnight thing, and it was a gradual process. Some would have never gone out without the kids, or somebody looking after them, others relied on checking up on the kids.
Incidents like the McCann disappearance led to even more panic about kids. The sad truth is though, the person most likely to have done it is usually a family member/friend. That weird German lad is a rare beast, albeit it appears he really is a valid suspect.
I’ve only ever done the downstairs bar of the same hotel, and after having setup the child webcam monitor with sound and movement alerts turned on. Ready to sprint to the room at a moments notice! I would never leave the premises of the Hotel.
Now the youngest is ~4 they can handle staying up later without being monsters the next day, so they come with us and we can go further in the evenings too. Win win!
As a parent of an 7 and 9 year old, there’s no way I would ever do that.
I watched that documentary and they couldn’t even see the room from where they were sitting. Very sad to watch.
Im in Spain right now with my six year old daughter! No way I would be leaving her behind in the hotel room, even for 10 minutes. Not worried about her being kidnapped necessarily but theres a million things that could happen to her if I left her alone in the room for the night while I was out.
English parent here. Just thought I’d chuck my hat in the ring. My wife and I have always said the same thing. We go out as a family, when the kids have had enough then it’s “good night guys, we’re getting the little ones to bed. See you tomorrow. Nights over, end of.
My parents told me a few years ago that the adults on their road in a housing estate would go drinking in one of the houses, and every hour a parent would go to all the sleeping kids rooms for each of the 6-10 houses to check on the kids, which included me and my 2 siblings. This was the 90s so no monitors or cameras at the time.
I'm shook over it tbh, as a mother now myself I couldn't dream of leaving my kids alone, and having a random parent enter their room check on them. It feels like a miracle that nothing bad happened.
No never have and never would. We were on holidays with my parents to Spain and Portugal in the 80's and they wouldn't have dreamt of leaving us alone . You always see the little ones asleep in their buggies and the parents right there next to them . When mine were younger we'd leave them nap in the afternoon and then they would usually stay up later then. We bring them with us to dinner and then with us while we are having the few drinks watching the entertainment. They'd usually fall asleep and we would put them in their buggy right next to us , usually heading up to the apartment for 12pm or shortly after. From what I could see most other parents did the same, no excuse for them to have done what they did.
I don’t see what nationality has to do with it? Presumably there are bad parents in every country because you know people are just people, where you’re from makes little difference 🤔
I started babysitting other people's kids at 12, and would have minded my brothers at 13 or 14, but only if my parents were out for dinner or something, not a full night out. When we were in portugal when I was 14 they left us in the room one night to have dinner together downstairs, and had a babysitting service come listen at the door every few minutes. They never would have left us alone, and absolutely not as small children. I've left my own kids in a hotel twice, while I was at a wedding downstairs and there was a babysitter sitting in the actual room with them. And I asked the babysitter to come early so I could suss them out. The Madeleine case is horrifying, and the parents were completely negligent. But I don't think they were involved in her disappearance other than being fucking stupid and negligent. And they're being punished for the rest of their lives for their stupidity.
Not a fear I would. Not that I would be thinking they would be taken. Like the chances are quite extreme.
I would be thinking if they woke up and we weren’t there. They would be terrified
Irish mammy here and this is my opionion.
When on holiday you can have a tendency to get a bit more casual and relaxed about things. On holiday last year by the end of the 2 weeks my kids were cycling around a french campsite without helmets and usually I'm very careful. My 7 year old was allowed to head off down to the shop on site and to the playground by himself. If anything happened to him or one of the kids fell off their bikes would people think I was asking for it for being careless?
I wouldn't leave such young kids alone but where they where they were eating was very close to the apartments. I suspect they were lulled into a false sense of security thinking an upmarket holiday resort was safe. I feel so sorry for them or any victims of crime/family of victim of crime.
I always say just because I wouldn't have have left my kids alone doesn't make me any better as a parent.
What does the nationality of the parents have to do with anything?
Being Irish doesn't make anyone more parental or less of a gowl.
On the crux of your question, I'm basing my answer on 4yrs of hospitality experience as a bar owner in the canaries and 3yrs in Ireland as a bar owner.
Yes, 100% yes Irish parents would and IME I've seen it very often. All in all a small % proportion but it was a regular occurrence.
The documentary often focused on the different cultural norms between Portuguese parents and British Parents, much of the Portuguese found it very odd, almost reckless that they left a child/children unattended in a hotel room for a considerable amount of time.
I was more shocked until I saw the distance from their room to the restaurant. They could see their apartment from their table. I wouldn't have done it, but I can see why they thought it was OK and to be fair, I don't think them even being in the same apartment would have stopped their child getting taken.
They weren’t left in a hotel room they were left in a self catered apartment so like you wouldn’t be needing to go past reception to access the accommodation. I live in Portugal and it’s very family friendly many restaurants have small kids till 10/11pm. Many resorts including the mccans have babysitter services. I don’t understand why all the kids weren’t put in one apartment and one babysitter hired and when they were done pick up their respective kids from the one apartment, they are all seemingly wealthy people who could have afforded a babysitter. I could kind of understand leaving them in a hotel room because you’d likely need keycard access to even enter the hallways of many hotels. I wouldnt do it tho because what if they were to wake up
Most British parents would too, as would most Irish. It's even a crime in both countries, though in Ireland's case there is no set age and is based on perceived competency of the child. Though this is a moot point here because no toddler can be considered competent, this would be more that a mature 9 year old would be better off than an immature 13 year old.
The actions of one family shouldn't be used as a baseline for societal norms.
It's also a cultural difference. There's not a binge drinking culture in the South of Europe, and most Southern European cultures have naps due to hot weathers.
Therefore it's common for kids to be eating/drinking with their families at 11pm at night. So the idea this family left their kids alone to be drinking at that time in retrospect, I'm not surprised they quickly became prime suspects for the Portuguese police.
Im British. And it was fucking stupid leaving a 4 yo on its own as most people would have thought. If it was a family of working class chavs instead if professionals they would have been absolutely crucified
Yah I mean we will probably never find out what truly happened. I do feel very sorry for the parents, It must be a nightmare each morning waking up knowing that one small decision caused a lifetime of torture and uncertainty
I am not a parent, but considering we were constantly home alone as children, even if I don't have any specific memories of it, I have no doubt we were left in hotel rooms too.
I’m trying to respond by saying everyone makes mistakes or miss judgements. But yes, I understand where you coming from, unfortunately it was the child who paid the price on this account
In the 70s my parents would leave the three of us when they went out to a party in the same road. I would have been the oldest at 8 or 9. One of them would come back in every hour or so to look in on us.
This is why I feel sorry for the accusations of neglect thrown at the McCanns, on top of having lost their child. It's not the most unusual circumstance ever. As I recall they were sitting in sight of the property too.
No, I wouldn't leave them at night alone. Especially not at that age. I think it was one 4 year old and two 2 year olds. No chance.
That documentary is quite biased towards the McCanns I believe, who are very quick to threaten lawsuits if someone in any way points the finger at them.
Ironically, an Irish family I believe from Drogheda seen a man carrying a blonde child towards the beach late at night on the night was reported missing.
I could be misremembering, but I believe they thought the person looked like Gerry McCann.
Yeh absolutely didn’t happen. Parents do abuse kitc etc but there’d be plenty of evidence for it. Plus they got the likely perp who was living in a campervan and just got out of prison for raping a 75 yr old woman. Absolute monster. Was probably him.
It's a generation thing. The majority of parents probably would have left their children in the hotel room to sleep while they went down to the bar. Everyone now, regardless of their age, will say:
"Me and your father do that? Absolutely never, it's a silly thing to do."
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Source: my mother and father said they would never do this but they did it to me and my brother on holiday some time back
We'd have a babysitter if they were going out. Hotels always have local babysitters on call. Once I was about ten they'd go for one at the hotel bar and I'd be in charge of the three year old. But they'd never have left me alone at 4.
I grew up in the UK. When at butlins/pontins there would be a sign beside the stage saying......"Baby crying at..........." the chalet number would be entered.
They had staff walking around checking for crying babies.
None of us ever left a small child alone but lots of people did. It's so crazy when you think about it but for some it was totally normal
My parents still don't like when I go back to the hotel room on my own to fetch something, even though I'm sixteen. There's so many true stories about things that have happened to unsupervised kids in hotels
I’d be sleeping on a chair next to my mum while my parents would enjoy their evening at the restaurant/bar lol but I’m not Irish it’s more a balkanic thing I guess. A win-win, kid gets their sleep, parents enjoy their evening, and you didn’t left your kid alone. I’d do the same with my kid.
In a school trip ca 1984 at aged 10-11 we were on an overnight ferry from Rosslare to France.
Being bored we went on decks ourselves. We ended up daring each other to climb over the railings and clamber along the side of the boat. It was raining. One slip and we'd have been in the sea.
I got fined for using a slot machine. Had the teachers or parents known about our night time adventures there would never have been another trip.
I would leave anyone under 10 alone on holiday. Maybe 12+ with a phone and it’s 16 floors up. Basically none of the things the McCanns did. My mum used to leave me home alone to work night shifts but I was 10 & left with Cartoon Network - amazing times for me.
Absolutely not.
My parents wouldn't leave me, on holidays abroad. There are plenty of childhood photos of me and my siblings in bugies in bars while my ma and da necked back pints. From what I remember, we enjoyed it and it how I learned to play pool. Back up in pool by 9!
Me, I can't even leave my 5 yr old in the next room watching Mickey Mouse while I jump in the shower. That's not even 5min.
Not on holiday the pub was 5 doors down. I was 10 ish my parents would go down every second or third Saturday night. If I needed anything the pub number was on the landline Slaney speed dial button and not to answer the door. (90s) Cork town
At our Christmas party last year the safety officer from our site and his wife left a 4 year old and 6 month old in a hotel room while they came out on the piss, we only found out when the residents bar stopped serving and they tried to get everyone back to their room to keep the session going. They reckoned the 4 year old was great with a phone and would ring them if there was any problems. Needless to say he did not return to work with us in January
In Portugal that's actually a crime. It's one of the many controversies in the case. The parents should have been charged.
I believe if the parents weren't wealthy doctors the narrative in the press would have been entirely different and they would have been charged with negligence
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Calpol is paracetamol, not a sedative. "They drugged their kids" gives an excessive negative impression, even if it wasn't strictly speaking a good thing to do.
I second this, when you see the shannon mathews case which happended at the same time and how that whole community was treated awfully compared to the Mc Canns
What do you mean treated awfully? They faked it for money!
Absolutely true. The whole country shut down when five students were killed in a balcony collapse in Berkeley. It was a tragedy, but I can guarantee you if it was five teenagers from the north side in gran Canaria, you wouldn't have had flags at half mast and the Taoiseach making speeches.
Yeah, and if the parents were a cleaner and factory worker from a council housing estate, they absolutely would have been charged with something.
Not even charged, the media would have ripped them to shreds and tried to drag some Sort of skeleton out of their closets to keep the blame On them
would we even have heard about it otherwise?..
Blond hair, blue eyed white girl? Yeah I’m going to say we would’ve. Jay Slater wasn’t from a wealthy family and there’s been big coverage about him. Now, if the child was an ethnic minority, that’s a can of worms I’m not sure I’d want to open
My own theory on Jay Slater coverage is that the Daily mail especially have seen absolutely massive clicks on stories about missing people. Probably starting with Nicola Bulley in Jan 23, then you had the TV doctor Dr Mosley a few weeks ago, you have Sarah Everard too but that was a murder and not just simply someone going missing. There might have been others. The Daily Mail goes absolutely crazy on these stories now, dozens of articles, I guess 'cos people click on them innit?
Yeah. I remember the following news story to the McCann disappearance on several days was something like "12 children dead in Iraq after shelling" which was depressing. They didn't get names. Or faces. Or an investigation... or even mentioned on the news ever again. Just a statistic.
Depends on the age. A 12 year old who can understand whats happening and can call me if theres any problems, sure. A 3 year old? Fuck no, the thoughts of them waking up in a strange place with no one around would terrify me.
That’s basically it. I have a 12 year old who I would leave alone for an hour or two (with his phone) and I have a 5 year old who I wouldn’t leave alone on holidays for any amount of time!
And it would terrify them. What a scary thing for a kid to wake up alone in an unfamiliar place, even if they were perfectly safe.
That's what got me .the thought of them waking up and not knowing where they were .also I would NEVER rely on other people to check my kids ..particularly the more drink was taken. I never left mine on any holiday.
Couldn't agree more. I would have been left looking after my younger siblings around that age, maybe 12/13 and up. My parents would never be far though, like they'd stay at the apartment hotel's bar, never more than a couple of minutes from us. We'd just chill watching the Simpsons in Spanish
"Keep the door locked and don't let anyone in." was usually the last thing we heard when our parents went out in the evening.
Hahha that’s still the advice I get from my parents .. in my own house
In the McCanns case, they forgot about the windows
In butlins/mosney everyone done it. They had assigned staff walking among the chalets to listen out for crying babies or children. If they heard something there was a digital sign beside the cabaret stage and a chalet number would appear for the attention of the parents. Talking 1980s. Would I leave my kids alone now - absolutely not
At least that was a “baby sitting” service. There was nothing in the McCann case
In fact there was a free "baby listening" service available in the apartments and the McCanns and their friends chose not to avail of it.
Nothing at all. But I still wouldn’t leave a young kid unattended in a hotel-room without being 100% sure they would be looked after.
It was also the normal for kids to be brought out in their buggy and they'd eventually fall asleep.
This is still done often I feel. When the babe is still young enough that all they do is sleep, eat, poo, cry, etc they pretty much do the same wherever they go and have no bedtime. They can be cared for easily enough and sleep right through a dinner out.
Every row was regularly walked day and night in Mosney. Even the staff chalets. On a hot night I used to leave my door on an upper landing open and often had to let security know it was cool.... Figuratively and literally
Thats mad
Yeah I remember that at butlins .my parenrs and grandparents went out for a hr with my brother an left me in chalet with tv and snacks. As i wasnt feeling to clever.remember the staff walking past regularly. And chalet next door getting a shout as kid started crying.
I was about to say the very same thing. I remember being left with my siblings in Mosney. I would never leave my own kids.
yea i remember alot of my friends parents left them in hotel/apartment rooms and at butlins maybe in the late 90s/early 2000s but none of us would ever leave our kids now! the mccann case showed us all your worst nightmare is real.
>the mccann case showed us all your worst nightmare is real. The McCann family were also astonishingly, unbelievably unlucky. They were almost definitely more likely to be struck by lightning. As someone who was helicopter parented, I think helicopter parenting is more of a risk than predators a lot of the time.
They left their children who were 3 and 2 years old in a building they couldn't even see. They were extremely unlucky to have this happen but I bet they wouldn't have let them run around outside in a lighting storm.
That's interesting. I suppose people felt safe then too thinking it's a relatively enclosed place. Maybe the McCann's viewed the resort that way
Me and my cousins were always brought along to the pubs on holidays in the mid 2000's, we'd blow about 50 quid on pool and air hockey while still being within earshot of the adults having drinks. I wouldn't be a fan of that type of holiday now but I'd probably still bring the kids with me to a pub rather than leave them alone in an apartment. Maddies case really opened people's eyes to the fact that you have no idea if someone is watching you and planning to steal your babies.
Even if Maddie wasn't taken, kids can get into mischief in nano-seconds.
I remember being in Trabolgan as a child and my parents would put me and my sister to bed and head out.
I was going to say no way, but after reading your comment I do remember me & my sisters being alone at least one night on holidays in a carvan park here in Ireland. The oldest was maybe 12 so I guess that's acceptable babysitting age..at least in the 90s it was.
Same here but I was around 8 and my brother was 9.
That was definitely acceptable babysitting ages back then. My cousin was left babysitting for us and would do the same for the neighbours.
Twelve is totally fine for a few hours.
That's what my parents did the time that we went to Mosney when we were little (the 80s). Apparently it was standard in the apartment blocks and a member of staff would patrol each block. If a child was heard crying, an announcement was made in the pub that guests from apartment x needed to their child.
>an announcement was made in the pub hahaha, holy God, what a time to be alive...
That's confirmed by another comment, which seems to have better info than me. I'm only going off what my mother told me, because I was 3 when we were there and don't remember much about the trip.
Yea. Sounds mad thinking back. Also there would be zero shame if ur number was called. Just other parents thinking - thank god mine are still asleep
Yep. I was a bit older than my brother and sister so I was allowed to stay up and head to the club to play with the other older kids. There'd be red coats walking up and down the chalet lines listening out for crying babies and an announcement would be made in the pub when they reported back that there's a crying child in chalet number 12.
Yeah. Standards are completely different. When I was eight, my parents would leave me looking after my four siblings (youngest was six months), so one parent would bring another to work. Often alone for two or three hours with them, twice a day. Bananas. I wouldn't leave my 14 year old alone with a baby now. Completely unfair on them, if the kid had a serious medical problem.
Sounds like we went to Trabolgan with the same family
Did you at least meet Florry and get some Caseys?
Captain Croc was more my jam
I wouldn't do it at home, so why the f*ck would anyone do it somewhere foreign/unfamiliar?
This is what I don't get. I'd never even go to the end of the road to the shop once my wee lad is in bed so why would I head out for drinks in a foreign country?
It hinges on the weeness of the lad and the lad himself. There's some 11 year olds who could be left I'm their room with a phone to ring their folks if they wanted them to come back. There's some 14 year olds you couldn't trust with a blunt spoon if left unattended. (I'm guessing at ages here, my eldest is 5 so we're nowhere near the luxury of leaving the kids alone unattended and won't know better for a few more years).
That’s it though, at 11/12 I was babysitting local kids, but I was around the corner from my parents.
And not unfamiliar to you but the young child that could wake up.
The same reason why people wear socks with sandles. They are on holiday.
Would have been the same with us in the early 90s.
Trabolgan had on-campus housing. The McCann situation was different, iirc.
Not sure how that’s different, it’s still a resort full of strangers.
Would they actually head out or just be outside on the patio job?
Used to get left in hotels while my parents would head out. They'd likely be in a hotel bar/restaurant that was still on the premises, or our at a nearby restaurant. It wouldn't have been as easy to find my parents if I had ever gone to look. But when we stayed in Trabolgan they couldn't go that far, and there were always enough families around if we ever got spooked.
That to me is unnatural. I’m definitely a protective parent and I realise that so I’ll always encourage my son to take risks etc. I could never do this. There are so many variables. Anything can happen. It only takes a split second.
It's mad, because my mam absolutely is a helicopter parent who would have built me the tallest bubble wrap tower that she could. But for some reason this was just the norm for us, odd the differences in thinking for her, haha. I was born in 94, so this would have been late nineties early 00's.
94 also. Myself and the father, are very much risk takers. Dangerous jobs, always having accidents getting hurt etc. But even the other day, I was helping my son (4) get something, he was standing on my back and my dad nearly through a wobbler. I think my parents are even more cautious with their grandkids than they were with us. On a tangent. Anyway I’ll never understand parents leaving there kids unsupervised like that, I could never do it.
Yeah I grew up in the 70s and this was totally normal
Not sure if this is a thing that any one nationality does. But my partner and I were in a hotel in Galway once, and we were walking back to our room late at night and a little girl of about 7 years old was bawling her eyes out crying out for her mom. I stayed with her in the hallway while my partner went to check downstairs in the bar to inquire about a mom missing her kid. Sure enough, the very well-to-do posh Irish mother was down at the bar having a great time. He couldn’t help himself and told her off for leaving her young daughter alone in the room. The kid had woken up in an empty room and was in a panic thinking her mom had abandoned her, so my partner was right to give her hell about it IMO. Hopefully that kid is alright today, this was about 6 years ago and we still think about that.
This is different but my cousin used to get reslly pissed she was about 17 like messy pissed and went into the wrong apt and just got into bed and some english youngfella was babysitting his 2 siblings and woke her up about 12 and said you better go now my mam and da be back soonshell never live that one down
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Absolutely not. Those kids they left were babies and 4 years old! It’s just mad to me they thought that was ok. Even if nothing had happened imagine waking up at that age in a different country, apartment and being alone.
Yep. My parents and aunties all done it when we were in Salou. About 10 kids left in the apartment with an average age of 9. Oldest would’ve been my cousin who was 13 at the time. There was a crazy thunder storm and the power went out in the whole building. As you’d expect, carnage erupted, mostly screaming. We often reminisce on it and have a good laugh though
Still at mostly 9-13 year olds, I feel like that’s a completely different kettle of fish. At east Kidnapping aside, there’d be less chance of accidents/issues happening that wouldn’t immediately be addressed like sick baby/injury etc Today’s world is so different too with instant access of phone, locked doors, decent security system, livestream nanny cams etc but I’d still not leave my THREE yr old by themselves! Not with a Locked or unlocked door for that matter This regret must haunt the parents!
As a single parent some of the most boring holiday evenings were hanging out on my own on the balcony while my son was asleep. It’s basic parenting to ensure that your child is safe. The children were more likely to wake up with wet nappies or thirsty and would have been scared in an unfamiliar environment. The McCanns had no excuse- they were part of a group that were away and could have easily taken turns to stay with the children. They all left their children unsupervised in unlocked apartments every night of the holiday. If they were more working class they media would have torn them to shreds.
Yeah I'd be much less worried about child abduction than a scared child waking up and lying there crying wondering where everyone was, or wandering out of the house to look for me.
They were 'educated' enough to know better. It's sickening imo.
I feel like a lot of Irish parents in the 80s particularly used to bring us to the pubs and stick us in a corner with some crisps while they got drunk so while I don’t think many would leave kids home alone, they probably weren’t exemplary examples of parenting either 😂
https://preview.redd.it/cl4tmeuzgq9d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae59fce6b2e923747dba43f90b1ba9610cbe1e33
Being in the pub as a kid was fun though 😄
I'm 100% certain it lead to my crippling addiction to Coke from a glass bottle though!
Bag of tayto too 😁
Drive home after too, a feed of pints in them
No. Maybe at around 13 when they have a phone in the room. But at 3? Not a hope.
Maybe not today. But 20 years ago it would have been less odd
I am not much older than she would be now and I don't know a single parent of someone my age who would have left us alone at home under the age of 12, let alone in a foreign country at night
In fairness, I’m 25 so about 5 years older and from about 10 onwards myself and pretty much my entire friend group would have been left to our own devices during the summer - this was in Dublin which might make a difference, as I guess we’d hop on the luas/dart a lot. To be honest, I think our parents put way too much trust in us but I guess we survived😅
It wasn't less odd then. It was horrifying for most. They only got away with it because of their social status.
I wonder why things have changed
People are more aware of stories of abductions etc. They're more afraid of possibilities even if the possibilities have not grown more likely.
Well Madeline McCann went missing almost 20 years ago
Even 20 years ago, that wasn't a done thing, at least not in my family. My youngest sibling was a toddler and I would have been in my late teens. I was left to babysit often as the kid wasn't the best behaved restaurants.
It was a weird thing to do when it happened 20 years ago and it's still weird today, like others have pointed out if maddies parents weren't doctors they would have been crucified by the press.
They were crucified by the press. Some papers had them persecuted with constant lurid allegations they'd made up. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/pound-550-000-damages-for-mccanns-over-madeleine-stories-797875.html
They haven't been crucified in the press? I'd hate to see what it would look like if they were
I remember in the 80s, my parents leaving my brother and I in a hotel room and heading down to dinner, but we were 11 and 9. I discovered that if you pressed 0 and asked for coke (the drink kind), they would bring it to your room, as many as you wanted. By the time my parents came back, my brother was jumping from bed to bed, jacked up on sugar! My parents wouldn't have left us in a hotel like that at the age that the McCanns were, but they did absolutely pop into the shop and leave us in the car, for example. We were told to lock the doors and don't touch anything. I think the fact that all their friends were doing it, and they could see the resort apartment from where they were eating, made them think it was OK. They really were different times. I remember being left to babysit a neighbours 2 toddlers and a baby for a weekend when I was around 15. I would imagine the McCanns have tortured themselves with that decision every waking moment for the last 20 years. I imagine they would do anything to go back and make a different decision. I just finished watching the Netflix doco too. Parts of it, about the child sexual abuse rings for example, were just so disturbing. That poor Portuguese woman who found the picture of her son on that website on the dark web was just so devastating. I couldn't sleep after watching that episode.
I wouldn't leave my phone, passport or laptop in an unlocked room in a foreign (or local) resort or hotel (the McCannes left the door opening on to the patio unlocked that night).
What sane person would leave their 4 year old alone to babysit her baby siblings?
She wasn't left to babysit, they were all drugged and put to sleep
I remember being left with my brother in a hotel room - just watching telly while the parents went to the restaurant within the hotel - he was 8, I'd have been 5 or 6 No way in hell I'd do that with my kids now a days. Like my wife and I were at a hotel last year and we took turns heading down to the bar in the hotel for a drink after we put the kids to bed just for some down time. As I see it, you have to make adjustments when you have kids. You either A) change how you do things and bring the kids with you or b) pay for someone to look after them. There isn't an option c of "sure it's grand, it's just down the road/they're asleep" etc.
Not today but 30 odd years ago it would have been less unusual. Our parents didn’t do it but when I asked them about it a few years ago (probably in relation to the McCanns) my mother said it wasn’t as uncommon as you’d think. As a parent now though the farthest I’d go is the balcony to have a drink after they’re in bed. I can’t fathom just going for a drink and leaving them there. I can’t imagine the pain the McCanns have gone through but as some others have commented they got a much easier ride as part of the upper (upper middle maybe?) class in terms of how they were portrayed.
Weren’t Madeleine McCann’s family staying in self catering apartments or houses or something? More exposed than a hotel like
I think so that's totally different to an hotel room they should have hired a baby sitter in that case as it would be a far different situation than an hotel room.
There was babysitting services at their resort. They decided not to use it.
That decision will haunt the poor people for the rest of their lives.
Oh like the apartment front door was around the corner facing a road. Like a 5 minute walk by the looks of it. I always thought they could fully see the apartment where they were sitting. https://images.app.goo.gl/U8Y4kVJwwxRfwAyh9
Not a hope. When they’re that age you need to be within earshot and you need to be able to check on them in the night. Do you know how often toddlers get out of bed for bad dreams/need a wee/want a drink/saw a shadow/dropped a teddy etc… that’s just at home, on a holiday I’d imagine that is ten times worse because of the exciting new environment and wanting to be in on the excitement. I wouldnt do it now and I wouldn’t have done it then either.
This is what I don’t understand how did they not think that some of the children could have woke crying when they weren’t available to hear them.
Probably the massive doses of dozol they gave the kids before they went out 🤦
Never
I remember in the 70s on a family holiday in Fethard on sea, mum and dad went to the hotel bar, which was across the road. I was the eldest, aged 10/ 11, and had to go get mum as the baby was crying.
Sure I remember one night in Portugal my family was in the pub. Mother went home with my brother who was sick. I was feeling tired and told my da I wanted to go home. Then some random bald fella asks what hotel we were staying in, my da tells him and he says he's going back there and sure he'll bring me. My da sees no issues with it. Fella pops me up on his shoulders and off we went, brought me right to our door and my ma was very confused and annoyed. My da turns up a few hours later and my other brother isn't with him. When my ma asks where my brother is he says he's staying in another woman's apartment since apparently he's mates with her son. Madness you wouldn't get away with nowadays.
There was a thread here where someone asked if their parents were the only ones who left their kids outdoors all day at a very young age. Was actually quite sad. Another thread of a woman who lives in a building with an internal area for kids where parents leave their kids alone for the day. There’s plenty of people out there who would do it you’re lidding yourself if u think they wouldn’t.
This is not a nationality based thing. Its an are you a shit parent thing. If the McCanns hadnt been doctors and were a working class family they would have got slammed
An abduction is not the only thing to worry about though. In the 80s, 2 parents left their 3 kids at home to go fir a drink. Pub was 2 mins away. One of the children, woke up and began playing with matches. All 3 kids died. Always remember my mother saying you could see the kids finger marks on the bedroom door
Some would but again, some parents are not fit to have or raise children.
I’d rather have kids up late and sleep in buggies/on chairs or bring drinks to the room than leave my kids alone. My MIL told me how a local pub used to play cartoons on a Sunday so they’d go up there for drinks. Bottles of tk and a few crisps yo do them while they were there. That’s quite a universal experience for Irish people I find especially those raised in the 80s or 90s. I’m sure some do leave kids but I’d imagine most wouldn’t
My parents did it in a hotel in the early 90s. I was about 3 and my brother would have been 1. I remember because he woke up crying one night and I started wandering the corridor trying to find them and got lost. I wouldn’t do it in a million years with my kids, but I do think it was more normal then and the McCann story put a stop to it.
Mine did but that was in the 70s UK. They stayed in a hotel went down to the bar for drinks and kept popping up to check on us I was 4 and my sister 1 - one time I actually fell over trying to open the door (handle was high up)cut my head open the screaming got the whole hotel running up and I was taken to a and e. They were shit parents ..many other occasions like this. I truly think kids that age are too young to be left alone.The Mccann story is weird anyway they clearly had friends in high places .
What do you mean by they had friends in high places?
Labour party. I think they might have been well acquainted with the Blairs or maybe Gordon Brown. The "weird" connection is the Portuguese police didn't want it reported in the media within the first 24 hours but it was breaking & headline news in the UK by morning.
Not a hope would mine anyway......it should be a case for likes of Tulsa,if this was a regular occurrence
My parents did it all the time.
When you were a toddler? Cos leaving kids that are like 8+ isn’t unusual imo
I worked as a receptionist in a hotel in Galway years ago and the amount of people who would put their kids to bed, come downstairs and go to the restaurant/bar for a few hours was shocking. The hotel had a "babysitting" service. Which involved leaving the phone off the hook in the room and us on Reception dialling in every 10 minutes to hear if they were awake. So many parents were OK with this. This was probably only 3-4 years after Madeilline McCann's disappearance so still fresh in everyone's mind. And apparently the McCanns and the rest of the party were checking back in with the kids every little while and she still went missing. I absolutely HATED having to be responsible for those kids in that hotel. Still can't believe to this day (now i have little kids myself) that people would do that. Eta - these kids were often young. Very young. I remember a couple leaving a baby to go for dinner (maybe 6 months old).
Was left roam the hotel grounds around the pool etc by myself all day long. But it was 40 years ago
Every nationality will have some parents who do stuff like this, seems stupid to generalise
Bit odd that you think it's about nationality tbh, it's not an usual thing to do in the UK.
Absolutely not. Would bring them with us (or stay out on the balcony in the room if the kids were sleeping and eat/drink there)
It wasn't different back then. 20 years ago I had children the same age as the McCanns. I was horrified that they left them alone to go for a meal. I wouldn't have left mine alone in the car at the front parking spaces of the school to go around the side to collect the older child. I wouldn't even have left them asleep in their rooms when I had a shower unless my husband was home and could hear them, or unless I brought the baby monitor in with me to the bathroom. Their Dad at the time said you would leave your child for longer if you cut the grass while they were asleep and that always stuck with me because most people I knew wouldn't even do that in their own house. They would wait until someone was there with them, use a monitor, or cut the grass when th kids were awake and somewhere you could keep an eye. Age 2, 3, 4 is just too young to be left unsupervised, out of eyeline, and out of earshot for even a few minutes. They need to be at least school age for that, but 7/8 ish was when I felt comfortable with it. For the record, I am not a helicopter parent - I think I'm quite laid back about most things, but a toddler is too young to not have someone watching or listening.
I do shower when my 1.5 year old is asleep (because it’s the only bloody chance I get) but the monitor is in the bathroom with me and the sound is turned the whole way up. I don’t even like being down the back of the garden when he’s asleep, he’s just too young to be out of earshot.
Not having a shower while they are sleeping is ott
I could feel the breeze of the propellers coming from shower
I agree, my son is also around the same age as Madeleine and we would have brought him away that same Summer and I could never imagine leaving him at that age. In my experience, those types of sun holidays are very accommodating for children, you can easily have the baby beside you in the pram when out for a meal and there’s often entertainment in the evenings geared towards the little ones. Ok so they might be awake later than a regular bedtime at home but they’re on holidays, it would be madness to expect them to keep the exact same routine (this was one of the reasons the McCanns gave for leaving them). It’s every parent’s worst nightmare to imagine a stranger would break in and kidnap the child in the middle of the night but so many other more likely things could have happened to them at that age if they woke up and found the parents weren’t there. They could have very easily hurt themselves.
That would have been my main concern. Someone breaking in and kidnapping them seems far fetched, but them waking and screaming the house down when no-one can hear them is very likely. And at that age they can get up and escape and climb things. Turn your back for seconds at that age and they could be anywhere.
In retrospect the British tabloids were working overtime to present them as victims and overlook they were selfish, neglectful and uncooperative with the investigation. Had they been working-class, or not white, they never would have gained public or tabloid sympathy. But the angle that Doctors, medical professional, could be capable of neglect, wasn't favourable in the 00's.
It was presented as something terrible that just happened to them, like a tornado or other natural disaster…but it couldn’t have happened if they didn’t leave their babies and toddler alone. I don’t often speak on the McCanns because their lives must be utter hell, but their selfish decision cost their little girl her life. They were supposed to protect her and they didn’t take that responsibility seriously. If they’d been Gazza and Katahni, supermarket workers from council flats, they would have gotten jail time for neglect.
I think they also had friends in high places who made sure the publicity was positive
Thank you for saying this
Same here my daughter was the same age at that time and we never left her for a moment. The McCanns were highly irresponsible and stupid.
Wouldn't leave them unattended in my own house never mind a hotel in a foreign country.
I'm English and there's no way we would leave our kids alone.
You might not be saying people who do it are bad parents but I certainly am. It's literally child neglect.
I live in a village that’s popular with tourists and visitors during the summer. Quite often parents will head to the pub leaving groups of kids as young as 5 or 6 unsupervised playing on the streets until closing time. It’s all fun and games until…
No. Never. Ever.
I travelled from Liverpool to Cork on my own at the age of 13. Which entailed getting the ferry to Dublin then cross country on the train. I know this is older than Madeline but I have never met a parent that would do this. It is one of the best personal experiences my parents gave me.
We went to Spain and Portugal as kids with the parents and they had us with them everywhere. Even in the bars at night. I definitely would not leave my young child in a hotel room alone even if I knew she would only sleep.
I’m not Irish, but on holidays in Europe I’ve seen plenty of parents leave their children whilst going out for a meal. Hotels employ people with no background checks. They could be anyone. Or from anywhere. From the cleaning staff to the waiters. Schengen zone allows for all kinds of miscreants to travel anywhere. Staff chat about guests. There’s no security in the vast majority of places. It’s absolute madness leaving your children alone like that.
Mine never did, I was regularly out until God knows what hour around drunk adults as a toddler. Reminds me, I don't think I've seen a binge drinking culture so openly accepted and incidious as boomers with their wine in the 80s and 90s. Its like because it was mostly wine and not vodka or beer it was acceptable. Maybe the best take is to get a sitter and neither leave small children unattended nor take them into adult situations with you
Depends on a lot of different factors. My parents' generation would have had huge freedom as children that they did not extend to their own kids. A lot of the moral panics regarding children began in the 1980s, and parents over, say, 60, today would have grown up with that as background noise. My parents and their pals often went to Portugal with young kids as it was seen as an ideal family location. Low crime, golf, amenities for kids and families, during the day, etc. Often one or two families would bring an au pair or child-minder down with them so the parents could all go out for dinner. Some people absolutely would have left their kids alone for dinner but checked on them frequently. It was simply the normal way of behaving back then. To understand the huge cultural shift in time, my old man went to school in England for a time. (Joys of emigration.) They were playing rugby at a rival school and warned if they forgot to lock the bedroom door they might get molested. It was accepted that this was a bad thing, but if it happened to somebody, it was their own fault for not taking precautions. When those people became adults, they were - understandably - quite protective of their own children. That wasn't an overnight thing, and it was a gradual process. Some would have never gone out without the kids, or somebody looking after them, others relied on checking up on the kids. Incidents like the McCann disappearance led to even more panic about kids. The sad truth is though, the person most likely to have done it is usually a family member/friend. That weird German lad is a rare beast, albeit it appears he really is a valid suspect.
I’ve only ever done the downstairs bar of the same hotel, and after having setup the child webcam monitor with sound and movement alerts turned on. Ready to sprint to the room at a moments notice! I would never leave the premises of the Hotel. Now the youngest is ~4 they can handle staying up later without being monsters the next day, so they come with us and we can go further in the evenings too. Win win!
As a parent of an 7 and 9 year old, there’s no way I would ever do that. I watched that documentary and they couldn’t even see the room from where they were sitting. Very sad to watch.
Im in Spain right now with my six year old daughter! No way I would be leaving her behind in the hotel room, even for 10 minutes. Not worried about her being kidnapped necessarily but theres a million things that could happen to her if I left her alone in the room for the night while I was out.
English parent here. Just thought I’d chuck my hat in the ring. My wife and I have always said the same thing. We go out as a family, when the kids have had enough then it’s “good night guys, we’re getting the little ones to bed. See you tomorrow. Nights over, end of.
My parents told me a few years ago that the adults on their road in a housing estate would go drinking in one of the houses, and every hour a parent would go to all the sleeping kids rooms for each of the 6-10 houses to check on the kids, which included me and my 2 siblings. This was the 90s so no monitors or cameras at the time. I'm shook over it tbh, as a mother now myself I couldn't dream of leaving my kids alone, and having a random parent enter their room check on them. It feels like a miracle that nothing bad happened.
No never have and never would. We were on holidays with my parents to Spain and Portugal in the 80's and they wouldn't have dreamt of leaving us alone . You always see the little ones asleep in their buggies and the parents right there next to them . When mine were younger we'd leave them nap in the afternoon and then they would usually stay up later then. We bring them with us to dinner and then with us while we are having the few drinks watching the entertainment. They'd usually fall asleep and we would put them in their buggy right next to us , usually heading up to the apartment for 12pm or shortly after. From what I could see most other parents did the same, no excuse for them to have done what they did.
I don’t see what nationality has to do with it? Presumably there are bad parents in every country because you know people are just people, where you’re from makes little difference 🤔
I started babysitting other people's kids at 12, and would have minded my brothers at 13 or 14, but only if my parents were out for dinner or something, not a full night out. When we were in portugal when I was 14 they left us in the room one night to have dinner together downstairs, and had a babysitting service come listen at the door every few minutes. They never would have left us alone, and absolutely not as small children. I've left my own kids in a hotel twice, while I was at a wedding downstairs and there was a babysitter sitting in the actual room with them. And I asked the babysitter to come early so I could suss them out. The Madeleine case is horrifying, and the parents were completely negligent. But I don't think they were involved in her disappearance other than being fucking stupid and negligent. And they're being punished for the rest of their lives for their stupidity.
You should never leave your kids alone at a young age. Ever. Especially in strange places.
We were playing without adult supervision in woods, farmyards and beaches. A hotel room would be relatively safe
Not a fear I would. Not that I would be thinking they would be taken. Like the chances are quite extreme. I would be thinking if they woke up and we weren’t there. They would be terrified
It’s the parent’s responsibility nothing to do with the Irish or any other country.
Irish mammy here and this is my opionion. When on holiday you can have a tendency to get a bit more casual and relaxed about things. On holiday last year by the end of the 2 weeks my kids were cycling around a french campsite without helmets and usually I'm very careful. My 7 year old was allowed to head off down to the shop on site and to the playground by himself. If anything happened to him or one of the kids fell off their bikes would people think I was asking for it for being careless? I wouldn't leave such young kids alone but where they where they were eating was very close to the apartments. I suspect they were lulled into a false sense of security thinking an upmarket holiday resort was safe. I feel so sorry for them or any victims of crime/family of victim of crime. I always say just because I wouldn't have have left my kids alone doesn't make me any better as a parent.
What does the nationality of the parents have to do with anything? Being Irish doesn't make anyone more parental or less of a gowl. On the crux of your question, I'm basing my answer on 4yrs of hospitality experience as a bar owner in the canaries and 3yrs in Ireland as a bar owner. Yes, 100% yes Irish parents would and IME I've seen it very often. All in all a small % proportion but it was a regular occurrence.
The documentary often focused on the different cultural norms between Portuguese parents and British Parents, much of the Portuguese found it very odd, almost reckless that they left a child/children unattended in a hotel room for a considerable amount of time.
This. I remember when this happened and we were shocked that anyone could leave their kids alone while they went for a meal.
I was more shocked until I saw the distance from their room to the restaurant. They could see their apartment from their table. I wouldn't have done it, but I can see why they thought it was OK and to be fair, I don't think them even being in the same apartment would have stopped their child getting taken.
They weren’t left in a hotel room they were left in a self catered apartment so like you wouldn’t be needing to go past reception to access the accommodation. I live in Portugal and it’s very family friendly many restaurants have small kids till 10/11pm. Many resorts including the mccans have babysitter services. I don’t understand why all the kids weren’t put in one apartment and one babysitter hired and when they were done pick up their respective kids from the one apartment, they are all seemingly wealthy people who could have afforded a babysitter. I could kind of understand leaving them in a hotel room because you’d likely need keycard access to even enter the hallways of many hotels. I wouldnt do it tho because what if they were to wake up
Most British parents would too, as would most Irish. It's even a crime in both countries, though in Ireland's case there is no set age and is based on perceived competency of the child. Though this is a moot point here because no toddler can be considered competent, this would be more that a mature 9 year old would be better off than an immature 13 year old. The actions of one family shouldn't be used as a baseline for societal norms.
It's also a cultural difference. There's not a binge drinking culture in the South of Europe, and most Southern European cultures have naps due to hot weathers. Therefore it's common for kids to be eating/drinking with their families at 11pm at night. So the idea this family left their kids alone to be drinking at that time in retrospect, I'm not surprised they quickly became prime suspects for the Portuguese police.
Im British. And it was fucking stupid leaving a 4 yo on its own as most people would have thought. If it was a family of working class chavs instead if professionals they would have been absolutely crucified
I think most British parents would find it very odd too (and did find it very odd in this particular case).
Yah I mean we will probably never find out what truly happened. I do feel very sorry for the parents, It must be a nightmare each morning waking up knowing that one small decision caused a lifetime of torture and uncertainty
I am not a parent, but considering we were constantly home alone as children, even if I don't have any specific memories of it, I have no doubt we were left in hotel rooms too.
Never! And the McCanns were completely neglectful and should have been charged.
I’m trying to respond by saying everyone makes mistakes or miss judgements. But yes, I understand where you coming from, unfortunately it was the child who paid the price on this account
In the 70s my parents would leave the three of us when they went out to a party in the same road. I would have been the oldest at 8 or 9. One of them would come back in every hour or so to look in on us. This is why I feel sorry for the accusations of neglect thrown at the McCanns, on top of having lost their child. It's not the most unusual circumstance ever. As I recall they were sitting in sight of the property too.
If only mine had and someone had kidnapped me, would have been much better off being brought up by a kidnapper than those cunts.
No, I wouldn't leave them at night alone. Especially not at that age. I think it was one 4 year old and two 2 year olds. No chance. That documentary is quite biased towards the McCanns I believe, who are very quick to threaten lawsuits if someone in any way points the finger at them. Ironically, an Irish family I believe from Drogheda seen a man carrying a blonde child towards the beach late at night on the night was reported missing. I could be misremembering, but I believe they thought the person looked like Gerry McCann.
Yeah those children were very young to be fair.
The logistics of Gerry McCann pulling that off are ridiculous
Yeh absolutely didn’t happen. Parents do abuse kitc etc but there’d be plenty of evidence for it. Plus they got the likely perp who was living in a campervan and just got out of prison for raping a 75 yr old woman. Absolute monster. Was probably him.
Bad parents that couldn't give a shit certainly would anyway
It's a generation thing. The majority of parents probably would have left their children in the hotel room to sleep while they went down to the bar. Everyone now, regardless of their age, will say: "Me and your father do that? Absolutely never, it's a silly thing to do." Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Source: my mother and father said they would never do this but they did it to me and my brother on holiday some time back
Most of our own parents did it but as a parent myself now, no way. Times and attitudes have changed.
would never leave the kids alone in the hotel room. maybe when they are over 12, but not at night time and just for hour max.
We'd have a babysitter if they were going out. Hotels always have local babysitters on call. Once I was about ten they'd go for one at the hotel bar and I'd be in charge of the three year old. But they'd never have left me alone at 4.
Not in my experience. I'm often roped into baby sitting neice and nephews. because there's zero chance the kids would be left alone like that.
I’m actually sure some have done
Some would. Even after that case.
Was definitely left in the hotel/apartment many times when i was younger.
I grew up in the UK. When at butlins/pontins there would be a sign beside the stage saying......"Baby crying at..........." the chalet number would be entered. They had staff walking around checking for crying babies. None of us ever left a small child alone but lots of people did. It's so crazy when you think about it but for some it was totally normal
My parents still don't like when I go back to the hotel room on my own to fetch something, even though I'm sixteen. There's so many true stories about things that have happened to unsupervised kids in hotels
I’d be sleeping on a chair next to my mum while my parents would enjoy their evening at the restaurant/bar lol but I’m not Irish it’s more a balkanic thing I guess. A win-win, kid gets their sleep, parents enjoy their evening, and you didn’t left your kid alone. I’d do the same with my kid.
In a school trip ca 1984 at aged 10-11 we were on an overnight ferry from Rosslare to France. Being bored we went on decks ourselves. We ended up daring each other to climb over the railings and clamber along the side of the boat. It was raining. One slip and we'd have been in the sea. I got fined for using a slot machine. Had the teachers or parents known about our night time adventures there would never have been another trip.
I would leave anyone under 10 alone on holiday. Maybe 12+ with a phone and it’s 16 floors up. Basically none of the things the McCanns did. My mum used to leave me home alone to work night shifts but I was 10 & left with Cartoon Network - amazing times for me.
I never would. Cant remember the parents doing it either
Absolutely not. My parents wouldn't leave me, on holidays abroad. There are plenty of childhood photos of me and my siblings in bugies in bars while my ma and da necked back pints. From what I remember, we enjoyed it and it how I learned to play pool. Back up in pool by 9! Me, I can't even leave my 5 yr old in the next room watching Mickey Mouse while I jump in the shower. That's not even 5min.
No, mine didn't they'd have a glass of wine on the balcony or whatever instead. I know people who's parents did though.
Absolutely no way I'd leave my daughter alone, even for a second.
Not on holiday the pub was 5 doors down. I was 10 ish my parents would go down every second or third Saturday night. If I needed anything the pub number was on the landline Slaney speed dial button and not to answer the door. (90s) Cork town
At our Christmas party last year the safety officer from our site and his wife left a 4 year old and 6 month old in a hotel room while they came out on the piss, we only found out when the residents bar stopped serving and they tried to get everyone back to their room to keep the session going. They reckoned the 4 year old was great with a phone and would ring them if there was any problems. Needless to say he did not return to work with us in January