I know plenty of lads in the 40s whose bodies are fecked who sit behind a desk because of sports. That kind of work does get harder as you get older but I’m sure he’ll figure that part out himself
Yeah he’s not saying the work causes this, he’s saying that it’s unsustainable to work physically demanding jobs when you age compared to sitting on a chair tapping away a few keys on a keyboard
Some of it could be , but the likes of the wrists and knees there's not much you can do. The wrists is the vibration of the tools and the hammering actions and the knees are gone from crawling around
Some things could be mitigated but you also have repetitive strain injuries. Using the same muscles over and over again thousands of times wears them out and can end in injury regardless of how fit you are
Yah that's a fact. I know it'd be crazy to ask someone to do that while working. I just figured the people who had a head start would have fewer problems
Theres more jobs at management level in construction than just foremen. A friend spent 20 years doing hard graft as a sparks on big London sites but now he is off the tools and works as a contracts manager visiting the companies various sites and making sure the sub contractors work is up to scratch. Decent bump in wages from it too. Other workmates of his have given up the tools and went down the health & safety officer route or quantity surveying and procurement.
I think though if youre a plumber or sparks and still on the tools in your 40s you will end up wrecking your body, its just too physical. At that age you'd want to be getting into management and off the tools.
“Worth more than any degree”
Except that there are plenty of degree educated individuals making that sort of money and well above without having to sacrifice their physical health.
There are definitely alternatives and something we actively encourage in the school I work in. It’s a DEIS school and a lot of our students wouldn’t be the college types and we actively support them looking at alternatives. A degree is definitely only one way to success and not everyone needs/suits that route!
As if people don't have physical health issues from sitting on their holes in front of a computer screen.
My own grandfather farmer long days every day and lived til he was 90 in perfect health until the day he died. Whether you have a physical or sit-down job, you still need to put in the effort to keep yourself in good shape.
I personally have been working physical jobs for 15 years and I'm honestly in better shape now than when I started.
That's what I was asking. Like even tho someone off the street that's been drinking too much for 15 years can handle a job working concrete, their body is gonna take more abuse from it because of them being in poor shape than if they could a started with an athletes body. Ya know just well round fitness.
“Worth more than any degree”
Except that there are plenty of degree educated individuals making that sort of money and well above without having to sacrifice their physical health.
Who does this manual labour is the degree educated individuals dont?
Its not a point , its a question
Your question has no relevance whatsoever to my comment.
And no one said only people without degrees can do manual labour.
Again, not sure what you are getting at here.
From my reading of your original comment, people with degrees don’t exert their physical health doing hard work. They earn the same , if not more.
So i asked , who does this hard work if the people with degrees dont?
Its not that bad of a question really. From my perspective you seem to be getting offended by it, its a public forum opened for debate, not a local gaa match.
There's no labouring jobs out there that pay 70k plus...im a trade with 24yrs and most trades aint getting that so a labourer definitely aint getting anywhere near it.
You need to get into the pharmaceutical plants buddy, I'm hauling 75k a year with very little overtime and the brother is on similar in another pharma plant
I'm a pipe fitter working for a large engineering contractor in a cork pharmaceutical, we get the rate, the lodge, a little bit of o.t. and a few freebies over the year
There isn't ment to be, we're all covered under the mechanical trades s.e.o. but in my experience most plumbers/ plumbing companies aren't paying the full rates and never paying the lodge which is a great little tax free payment
Yeah thats true no boss including my own are willing to pay the top rate...they blame the main contractors for the prices they pay but ya know yourself its about them making more money for themselves.
Dublin seems to be the only place you have a chance of getting the proper rate.
Im thinking of finally biting the bullet this year and trying to go start out on my own.There comes a point when you're just sick making money for someone else.
And they're all lying to ye, they're charging for the full rate you can be sure! If you think you have the drive from self employment then go for it buddy, there's big demand for domestic plumbers from what I can see, I even know a lad who got rid of his staff and extra vans recently because he was to busy, what a complaint to have! And I heard his prices were high too but people were paying it
Bit broad and overall exaggerating, I k ow block layers in they're 40s working since they're 16 and they're fine, but it takes a certain build and taking some care about what you do. Probably some luck involved aswell but that's life
No it’s not, men and labourers in the past had terrible habits and didn’t eat well or look after themselves hence being fecked at 40. Things have changed
It's important to plan for future with work like that. An injury or just wear and tear on your body will result in you having no work.
Important to be putting some money away when you're doing well so that you're protected going forward, or depending on the nature of the work can you future proof by developing the skills necessary for staying that field in an admin/ management role.
I think stamina is a big factor. Stamina cannot be willed. It's something that you either have or you don't. They can get away with it for some years, if they don't really have the stamina and truly persevere and remain completely focused, but it will eventually catch up on them if they don't move on - if they don'talready have an accident from being exhausted. There has to be some form of passion as well, as well as self discipline. Ya, you're right, hard workers are being lost as jobs are replaced by corps and computers. It's sad. Why not enough choose trades as well is just beyond.
Definitely, pacing yourself is really important. I know chefing doesn't compare to jobs like fishing, saturation diving, building, etc. and it's poorly paid. I'm a woman and was a chef for a while - loved it, really did, but I became exhausted and had a serious accident. Now I don't work in that line of work anymore. Eating properly and sleeping and exercise I think are all important, along with mindset. If you are fit, you can do anything! Having a good relationship with colleagues is paramount as well -always staying professional and motivated. Although some women are good at such jobs, I think men more commonly do them, because they have a different metabolism, but also a different mindset and life focus. I don't think women should be told from day one that they can't do things, because everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want. But ya, it's like they're saying women should be completely equal to men in the workforce (when both are totally different), but then the incentive to even do some honest work isnt even there. Such a ridiculous fucked up world.
There is so many young ones that don't want to continue education, but then also don't want to put in the effort in a manual labor job. Notions. (to add i also am a young one lol) Fair play anyway for getting into a job that pays this well
Anecdotally a lot of younger people I meet seem ill equipped to handle hard work and I don’t think it’s a failing on their part but the people who raised them
What kind of work do you do when your in your 40’s then? After your body can’t take it anymore? Your 3rd level educated peers will most likely be able to continue their career choice till retirement.
This comment is screaming snobbery through my phone. Colllege is completley overrated. Plenty of b/s courses that people waste years of their lives on in hope of entering certain ondustries. We.need sprayers/sprayers / scaffolder/plumbers etc way more than philsophy and politocs graduates. 'Your third level educated peers' ?! hows the view from your high horse?!
Where did I mention or give a dismissive impression of trades? The OP said it was very physically intensive work. He also compared himself to his 3rd level educated peers. I was merely pointing out that his current career choice might give him short term gain, but doing a physically intensive job as he described does not appear to be possible long term.
Also sitting on your hole in front of a computer screen all day every day comes with it's own host of physical issues.
College is overrated. I have 3 university qualifications and chose to work a physical job and feel fantastic now coming up on 40 in comparison to how I felt in my early 20s sitting on my ass stressed out in front of a computer.
3 university degrees and still couldn’t forge a professional career. Sounds like you’re just bitter against office workers. Any office populated with 3rd level educated professionals will live longer and healthier lives than any man who spends his life on a building site.
They got a BA in Jam Making, then a MSc in Jam Making, then a PhD in Jam Making.
I believe their dissertation was on the exciting new frontier of blueberry jam.
Congratulations on your achievements. You earned what is yours.
Prepare for your future though, make sure if you get sick or injured, you are taken care of, you and yours, that’s my only advice.
But, by all means, “Make hay while the sun is shining”
It's a pity that the education system in ireland is geared towards getting a place in college. I hated school and was terrible academically. In my school, we could do woodwork up until junior cert. I was always at the top of the class, interested and engaged. I was one of the best in that class but terrible at everything else. I somehow pass everything in my leaving cert 2007 I went labouring on a site and after months of hard work i quickly realised i wanted to serve my time and do an apprenticeship. I got into a factory to serve my time as a fitter. I was very lucky there were a lot of older guys around 60 years old who had so much experience to give. Looking back, I learned a hell of a lot from these men about life and how to manage money and deal with people. I often think I would like to go back to my old school and speak to young lads about apprenticeships as it has set me up for life. I bought a house when I was 25, have a salary of close to 80k, and another 20k of bonus and benefits on this. It's a Monday to Fri job with flexible hours each day. It didn't just land on my lap though I had to work my way up the ranks to this. I think it's a pity the attitude towards people that want to do a job that doesn't involve having a degree from college.
Contact your old school and give them your details- they may have a careers week & have people from different backgrounds come in and do Q&A and thr pros & cons of the job.
When you say 'take home 60 - 70k', I assume you're making 110-125k before tax? If so, well done, that's pretty savage money for non-educated work!
This reminds me of people working in mines in Australia, very good money for young fit people, but becomes hard to sustain after 10 years of it.
Lads I'm not a labourer but the people saying you'll be broke up at 40 from it, yeah that's true for most but all of your parents grandparents laboured for a pastime between jobs, how young people work is the issue not the work, nice and steady pace and don't rush is what I was thought!
My dad is 6 months to retirement (66)and was a plumber/fitters and then foreman. His ankle and knees are bolloxed now. So is my friend and he's only 38. Me dad was telling me that this generation see manual labour as a think of the past and everything is online, so much so that it's hard to fill apprenticeship. There are lads 38, 39 in there 40s doing apprenticeships now. Lack of resource means the rate for manual labour keeps rising. I'm an Engineer and there is such a lack of resources in Ireland they have lads moving here from all around the world. This has brought the quality of work right down with poor experienced lads. Anyone half decent apprentice now is miles ahead of the curve. Me and my wife both have degrees and always tell out 16 yo son to get some manual skills under his belt like getting a trade after school and then go to college down the line.
Yes money in trades now, I say that as someone who is your age and works in finance. All those degrees are becoming largely useless quite quickly. Although I am doing well, by comparison, a good plumber or electrician has a good future .
Gas that seemingly every few days there’s posts on here about people wanting to ditch their soul crushing office job and get into the trades. Then this fella posts about actually working trades making good money and everyone is replying about how terrible the trades are and how great office work is. Reddit loves to be contrary I guess
I don’t know of many jobs you can get paid that well for just physically difficult work, you must have some sort of skill. You saying you a sprayer I don’t know if you mean cars or what but I’d imagine spraying to be more skill than physically demanding.
No disrespect but I’m earning that at 21 from my degree, and mines is sustainable long term because its an office job and not physically demanding. IMO, a carefully chosen college degree is always worth it (carefully chosen = not doing something dumb like gender studies ofc)
Yeah no that's really good and good on ya! There's a lot who aren't though and to earn that salary after tax is nearly 100k is a lot to expect out of college with a degree
Good going OP. Good gig I think today everyone is hell bent on college and all it entails and there is a degree of snobbery in people deciding to go into trades etc.
I know plenty of college graduates working in bars and factories as certain courses amount to little..
I’d always recommend doing an actual discipline eg accounting / engineering where there is a definite path to a great future.
I know a sprayer who worked well into his sixties.
Handy thing about the trades is the autonomy which works well as you get older and hopefully you pick and choose what suits.
That said take it easy too, slow and steady finishes the race!
> I’d always recommend doing an actual discipline eg accounting / engineering where there is a definite path to a great future.
I don't think you need a definite path, most STEM courses lead into good jobs. Physics for example opens up a lot of options in many fields.
I thought for a minute the job was a deep sea diver in North Sea where you earn £200/300k per annum and not €60/70. Your peers will be able to work to 67 OP and then probably have a long trouble free retirement. Even if they earn less than you they will out earn in the long run.
Im 26 and had a similar experience. Alot of the lads I went to school with done well in the Leaving cert and went to college but ended up working in bookies and retail shops close to home, most of them didn’t pursue a job career in what they studied for in college. I failed my leaving due to the same reasons you mentioned above. Absent because I hated it and dossing when I was present, but landed in a good job with a good salary. I was always interested in the more physical and practical side of work and was always curious as to why alot of the people I went to school with my age and younger weren’t. I never found out exactly why but I strongly believe it’s a generational thing. Genetics and upbringing could also have a part to play considering a lot of kids were guided heavily towards college, not knowing it was possible to make a good living from some hard work and dedication outside of the school system.
I mean it depends on what degree, what grade, what experiences one attempted, what college, & what interview & CV skills someone has.
Someone with a good grade in stem from ucd/tcd who interned, got experiences & practised up their cv & interviewing skills will do great.
I guess.. but they passed the leaving cert an I didn’t, followed through with college an I didn’t, not about what grade this that and the other at all imo. They went and got degrees, I didn’t and have had a quite successful career so far. The point I’m trying to make is that they’re more educated and more qualified as they have degrees and they took up basic jobs. I done the complete opposite to them and found more success. Majority of them studied business.
It is about the grades and what college and what course you go to though. Passing the LC and going to college does not guarantee you a good living whatsoever.
Is it though? Others like me in my year/class who left school early or failed leaving went on to own their own businesses and being quite successful. Again no degree or school behind them, the points I’m trying to make here are in relation to the OP. Many in our age group don’t want to graft because they’ve spent majority of their life so far at a desk studying for school college etc and don’t know the meaning of the word graft. School is definitely not needed to be successful or to make a good living. My post is an attempt at validating that point.
I never said school was needed to be successful or to make a good living.
What I did say was that going to college is not a magic bullet to a good career. But if you do get a very good leaving, go to UCD or TCD, do a top course and get a good degree you’re going to be able to have a very good career, and reach salary levels which you can’t easily reach without a degree.
I didn’t say you did, I was agreeing with you at the end there.
Exactly my point, college, grades, degrees etc don’t necessarily mean everything and you can go on and be successful without them.
Of course going about it the right way and landing in that right job is crucial but it doesn’t happen to everybody. Like I said I’m trying to validate this through my experience and what happened with lads in my year/class in school. I’m not taking a dig at anyone who does college or doesn’t. I’m just making a point and relating to the OP that I had a similar experience.
Points, college, grades and a good degree do more often than not mean you will be able to have a good shot at being successful. Especially if you do the right degree and the right internships.
As I said already.
You have experience in getting very high points in the leaving, going to TCD or UCD, getting top results and doing top internships? I thought you said you failed your leaving?
as expected reddit is full of negativity for someone espousing the virtues of working hard.
good for you man, find it amusing people talk about your back getting wrecked, etc, etc, i know guys who started in trades who had the right brains, and moved into starting their own businesses, contracting, etc, with serious money. if your smart you dont have to do break your back forever.
leverage your physical strength and stamina, save your money, make a few right friends, learn the trade and go do it on your own so you are out of the grind before your body starts deteriorating and you have other streams of income.
70 at 27 is great, just have a long term view of how this fits into your life and keep working hard.
With the caveat that "really difficult physically" could mean debilitatingly hard on the body, I truly believe that in the next two decades physical jobs will beat out white collar jobs. Even now, jobs in mining, petrochemicals, and qualifed trade pay even higher than mid-level tech jobs.
Truth of the matter is, software (read: AI) develops way faster than robotics. We already have AI that is infinitely superior to humans in some domains but general purpose humanoid robot that even approaches human level dexterity is probably decades away. Physics is a b.tch.
So, if I had a teenager kid today I would steer them towards medicine or some physical trade. Operating heavy machinery, oil rigs, mining, maritime jobs on long haul cargo ships are real heavy work but they are also quite AI safe. Also, tradespeople like carpenters, electricians, even handyman will always be in demand and you might own your own business and decide on how much wear and tear on your body you will tolerate.
I am not saying it's easy. I am now at an age where I cannot pivot to a trade and probably my senior role is safe from AI for a few more years, but if I were planning a career now, I would definitely think AI resistant jobs where only a human like robot can replace you as a viable long term option.
Maybe a bit morose outlook on my part, but I believe we are entering a new age when one thinks about labour they will think of your physical labour first as most mental jobs will be either delegated to AI or because of immense efficiency they will be done by way fewer employees.
How long do you think you can do this gig? I earned fuck all until my thirties. Then I finished my PhD and broke into 6 figures. It's nice to have a job that's easier than the bartending I was doing before graduating. It allows for a healthier lifestyle and I can forsee a time when the returns on my savings will surpass my income. No high paying physical job I was exposed to offered that when I was in my 20s.
I get the opinion of what do you do when you can't do that, another thought opens up, my grandfather built houses and laid block the his late seventies and farmed till his mid 80s and died at 96 still mobile
Use the good money now to set you up so you don’t have to do it forever. Buy a house and think about the next phase. Nothing wrong with hard work. You’ll be grand. Good luck!
Before I went to college I used to work with travelling fairs here and in the UK. The amount of fellas in their early 40s missing fingers, with knee replacements and abusing alcohol to deal with chronic back pain was madness. I was 14/15 earning €700/wk over summer but I was too tired to spend the money by the end of it. I agree that college isn't the only answer but the trades still need to adopt a basic culture of safety and respect for peoples bodies or it'll never entice the young lad/lass who has more brains than braun.
I also do a physically challenging job but these kind of jobs are not sustainable as you get older. I know I will be looking to change in the next few years and I am prepared to take a substancial pay cut.
OP I know plenty of qualified plumbers and electricians pulling in that sort of money. College isn’t for everyone but trades are paying great money at the minute.
You're assuming that hard work is exclusive to physical labor, it isn't. I've worked on sites and come home from the office sometimes just as tired as if I had been on the site.
Also, the reason I got off sites was from talking to lads in their mid 30s and older who had a list as long as their arm of things wrong with them from labouring for years.
University possibly for doctors
And surgeons & the likes! The rest of the people can gain far better experience/ skill set via a apprentice scheme, scrap uni degrees! Over rated
Probably because hard graft jobs are toxic as fuck. My brother earns great money but you couldn’t pay me enough to work in his environment: people fighting on sites all the time, robbing lunches, robbing tools, smelly unclean toilets and lunch areas, bullying seems to be rampant, full of scrotes, etc…
Then you’ve got the physical diminishing of your body. My father started bricklaying at 15 (left after his junior cert from school) and did it until 52. Then he was put out for back problems. I don’t recall a day during his working years that he didn’t complain about his back or didn’t come home absolutely shattered. Plus his days were very long: waking up at 6am, getting home at 6pm, napping almost instantly. He basically had zero free time Monday to Friday.
Meanwhile.. my “degree job” (which I’ve no degree for) pays me 85k a year and we’ve none of the problems of above, I work from my bed and I start when I want and finish when I want.
This may be why people don’t go to “hard physical jobs” now.
Having worked both in trade and office work there’s pros and cons for both in terms of health, plenty of office workers have bad backs and carpel tunnel due to poor posture and ergonomics. Trades it’s easier to incur injuries depending on the trade so you really need to be on top of exercises and tools to reduce the impact long term. I’ve seen guys do the same job on site but in very different ways that really hit home to me the ethic of work smart not hard.
Trades are fantastic if you don’t want to go a college route but it’s by far not a no learning experience as you’re continually learning both the job and how to do it more efficiently.
You need to wake up and realise to capitalists you're nothing but a disposable number. They'll use your body until you're broken and then bin you, at least 3 guys in the training course I did were ex building site labourers, all under 40 and all were unable to beat me, never worked out once, I'm an arm wrestle and it's not because I'm all that, coz I'm pretty average, but they're backs are fucked up.
The whole glorification of the grind bs needs to die.
Selling your body until it's broken more rapidly for a minimal and temporary gain and then shitting on people smarter than you because of their wage isn't the victory you think it is.
Those people don't care about you. So be smart, don't let them just use you up.
I see where you’re coming from but I don’t think OP was ‘shitting on ppl smarter than them’ necessarily, although I did detect notes of antielitism inferiority complex. Equally I would argue that not everyone with a degree is naturally smarter than someone without one, they’re just more educated.
Disliking school and structured education doesn’t equate to being stupid or a general dislike of learning, it can be more of a preference thing.
I agree with you fully on the issue being late stage capitalism. I was in a professional job where I was working 60-80 hours a week until I was near being hospitalised. When I went to my boss about it he told me he once HAD been hospitalised for that reason, to take a week off and get back in the saddle.
Similarly, growing up I did ‘hard graft’ jobs from farm work to cleaning dishes and working in a kitchen. In both instances I was seen as a disposable cog to be used and disposed of if I stopped being useful.
Until we move towards a system that benefits humanity as a whole rather just a wealthy few this will be an issue. You will be used up, physically and/or mentally and cast aside. And a degree is only valuable until they find a cheaper alternative (new machines, AI etc.) I have a friend who’s high up in a tech company and their entire job is making a plan to get rid of as many jobs as possible over the next few years and I’m not talking about unskilled roles. They’re coming for us all comrade.
I should probably have said anti-intellectualism but not everyone gets that.
I agree cohort, capitalism has had its day abs every year 20+ million die because of it, time for something else.
I know what you meant, I’ve often got frustrated at those types of sentiments too. It’s feels like they are arguing that putting yourself through years of college then starting at entry level is a walk in the park.
The main thing most people don’t understand is we have more in common than different. There is no working class or educated class or blue collar and white collar, that’s all obfuscation. There’s the working class (who work for a living) and the wealth class (who make money off their money) and that’s it.
We should all be unionising and holding politicians accountable to ppl not corporations but everyone gets distracted trying to find enemies in their own ranks and pass the hate down to anyone they perceive as lower in status than themselves, whether that’s ’the uneducated’ or ‘ppl afraid of a hard days work’. We skilled labour and manual labour. What we don’t need is abhorrently wealthy ppl, and that isn’t even millionaires, that’s billionaires.
The root of all oppression is anti-intellectualism. When the mega rich make it so the population is mostly not educated in critical thinking, reasoning and only educated enough to operate the machines, they find it easy to squeeze the poor for every penny and make so they are so busy surviving they don't have time to question why.
I agree they are the enemy, and they depend upon the state as their truncheon to beat dissenters.
No gods, no masters, no borders cohort.
I left about 15 years ago so I genuinely don't know but I'm surprised to see $60-70k described as good money. I'd assume it depends on where you live. I'm living in a big US city now and $70k wouldn't get you far here. It'd be an okay middle class lifestyle if single, but if you wanted to live anywhere nice within a half hour of the city, you'd be in a one-bed apartment, maybe a studio.
"really difficult physically" translates to me as grand over 5-10 years but then becomes unsustainable as the body ages.
This 100% I know too many men in their 40s with broken down bodies from putting them through hell for 20+ years.
I know plenty of lads in the 40s whose bodies are fecked who sit behind a desk because of sports. That kind of work does get harder as you get older but I’m sure he’ll figure that part out himself
Yeah he’s not saying the work causes this, he’s saying that it’s unsustainable to work physically demanding jobs when you age compared to sitting on a chair tapping away a few keys on a keyboard
That's it, my husband and loads of his mates in trades are fecked now. Backs and knees gone to shit
I wonder how much these things could be mitigated if all the people going into these jobs started with a well rounded physical fitness?
Some of it could be , but the likes of the wrists and knees there's not much you can do. The wrists is the vibration of the tools and the hammering actions and the knees are gone from crawling around
Don’t forget ladders, destroys the feet over years no matter what boot you wear. Then reaching above you over hours wrecks the arms
Y'all make good points
Some things could be mitigated but you also have repetitive strain injuries. Using the same muscles over and over again thousands of times wears them out and can end in injury regardless of how fit you are
Good point
Or on the job training on how to care for your body after putting it through the ringer all day
The chances are the last thing people want to be doing is more exercise after putting the body through hell all day. Trades are just cruel tbh.
Yah that's a fact. I know it'd be crazy to ask someone to do that while working. I just figured the people who had a head start would have fewer problems
This. So much this. Short term vs long term benefits both financially and health wise. Money is only useful if you are around to spend it.
Pretty much and then you got slipped disk in your back and nobody wants to hire you as you're a liability 😔
You can then move onto a foreman type role where you don’t do physical work though.
How many foreman jobs do you think are out there? Not every tradesman in his 40s is gonna have that option
Theres more jobs at management level in construction than just foremen. A friend spent 20 years doing hard graft as a sparks on big London sites but now he is off the tools and works as a contracts manager visiting the companies various sites and making sure the sub contractors work is up to scratch. Decent bump in wages from it too. Other workmates of his have given up the tools and went down the health & safety officer route or quantity surveying and procurement. I think though if youre a plumber or sparks and still on the tools in your 40s you will end up wrecking your body, its just too physical. At that age you'd want to be getting into management and off the tools.
“Worth more than any degree” Except that there are plenty of degree educated individuals making that sort of money and well above without having to sacrifice their physical health.
Not hating on degrees I just think there are alternatives!
There are but it’s a more difficult road, and certainly not for everyone
I don’t think anyone is unaware there are alternatives. Saying “worth more than any degree” is obvious nonsense though.
Just a phrasing to indicate my strong opinion not accurate which should be obvious oops my bad
There are definitely alternatives and something we actively encourage in the school I work in. It’s a DEIS school and a lot of our students wouldn’t be the college types and we actively support them looking at alternatives. A degree is definitely only one way to success and not everyone needs/suits that route!
As if people don't have physical health issues from sitting on their holes in front of a computer screen. My own grandfather farmer long days every day and lived til he was 90 in perfect health until the day he died. Whether you have a physical or sit-down job, you still need to put in the effort to keep yourself in good shape. I personally have been working physical jobs for 15 years and I'm honestly in better shape now than when I started.
That's what I was asking. Like even tho someone off the street that's been drinking too much for 15 years can handle a job working concrete, their body is gonna take more abuse from it because of them being in poor shape than if they could a started with an athletes body. Ya know just well round fitness.
I'll hand in my 35-hour weeks, 6-figure salary, great pension, and degree so and get grafting 🙄 and ruin my body by 35
You win at life
Computer science degree. Not even a great one. 2.1 from DIT
Yeah I’ll do the same I think
Sitting is incredibly unhealthy
Yeah good thing I can literally get up and walk around at any time...
That doesn't help much, unfortunately.
So who does the manual work if the degree educated individuals dont?
What? I don’t understand your point.
“Worth more than any degree” Except that there are plenty of degree educated individuals making that sort of money and well above without having to sacrifice their physical health. Who does this manual labour is the degree educated individuals dont? Its not a point , its a question
Your question has no relevance whatsoever to my comment. And no one said only people without degrees can do manual labour. Again, not sure what you are getting at here.
From my reading of your original comment, people with degrees don’t exert their physical health doing hard work. They earn the same , if not more. So i asked , who does this hard work if the people with degrees dont? Its not that bad of a question really. From my perspective you seem to be getting offended by it, its a public forum opened for debate, not a local gaa match.
You totally misread and misunderstood my original comment so.
I understand , but do you agree that one could read it that way or am i just stupid?
The latter I think
Ill take it, But Nah, to be honest i think i offended you by explaining your simple faults back to you.
The epsilons
From GTA?
Farming and construction is highly mechanised now. Ultimately nobody should be sacrificing their health regardless or the type of work.
We’re all just dying from sitting on zooms all day.
You’ll be in bits at 40. That’s why people try to get away from the labouring gigs.
There's no labouring jobs out there that pay 70k plus...im a trade with 24yrs and most trades aint getting that so a labourer definitely aint getting anywhere near it.
I meant labouring in the general sense, like hard physical labour jobs.
You need to get into the pharmaceutical plants buddy, I'm hauling 75k a year with very little overtime and the brother is on similar in another pharma plant
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I'm a pipe fitter working for a large engineering contractor in a cork pharmaceutical, we get the rate, the lodge, a little bit of o.t. and a few freebies over the year
Is there a big jump between plumbing wages and pipe fitting ?
There isn't ment to be, we're all covered under the mechanical trades s.e.o. but in my experience most plumbers/ plumbing companies aren't paying the full rates and never paying the lodge which is a great little tax free payment
Yeah thats true no boss including my own are willing to pay the top rate...they blame the main contractors for the prices they pay but ya know yourself its about them making more money for themselves. Dublin seems to be the only place you have a chance of getting the proper rate. Im thinking of finally biting the bullet this year and trying to go start out on my own.There comes a point when you're just sick making money for someone else.
And they're all lying to ye, they're charging for the full rate you can be sure! If you think you have the drive from self employment then go for it buddy, there's big demand for domestic plumbers from what I can see, I even know a lad who got rid of his staff and extra vans recently because he was to busy, what a complaint to have! And I heard his prices were high too but people were paying it
75k after tax?..
No no no,pre tax
Was going to say this, I’m a trade supervisor on this as base wage, no labourer is getting this without a good amount of OT
PAYE or contractor? Definitely is if you’re contracting. My brother is on 45 an hour as an electrician in Dublin. That comes out to over 90k a year.
Bit broad and overall exaggerating, I k ow block layers in they're 40s working since they're 16 and they're fine, but it takes a certain build and taking some care about what you do. Probably some luck involved aswell but that's life
No it’s not, men and labourers in the past had terrible habits and didn’t eat well or look after themselves hence being fecked at 40. Things have changed
You can eat like a saint and do all the yoga in the world, you’ll still be ruined carrying a thousand cavity blocks a day for 30 years.
It's important to plan for future with work like that. An injury or just wear and tear on your body will result in you having no work. Important to be putting some money away when you're doing well so that you're protected going forward, or depending on the nature of the work can you future proof by developing the skills necessary for staying that field in an admin/ management role.
Well I’m a younger lot and would love to know what the hard graft would be, distinguished gentleman👍
I'm a sprayer
So what you meant by hard graft was the porn industry
Think that's hard shaft
Make a wad with your rod
Sprayer of what?? There’s so many follow on questions here :)
You say you’re not a labourer but it’s physically demanding and not for everyone. What are you spraying??
Any more info?
Assume a paint sprayer, watch your lungs, use best possible mask. I know 2 guys who had to quit in their late 30s due to lung issues.
Sounds like mindless work
I think stamina is a big factor. Stamina cannot be willed. It's something that you either have or you don't. They can get away with it for some years, if they don't really have the stamina and truly persevere and remain completely focused, but it will eventually catch up on them if they don't move on - if they don'talready have an accident from being exhausted. There has to be some form of passion as well, as well as self discipline. Ya, you're right, hard workers are being lost as jobs are replaced by corps and computers. It's sad. Why not enough choose trades as well is just beyond.
Nice and steady you'll get there my ould lad thought me!
Definitely, pacing yourself is really important. I know chefing doesn't compare to jobs like fishing, saturation diving, building, etc. and it's poorly paid. I'm a woman and was a chef for a while - loved it, really did, but I became exhausted and had a serious accident. Now I don't work in that line of work anymore. Eating properly and sleeping and exercise I think are all important, along with mindset. If you are fit, you can do anything! Having a good relationship with colleagues is paramount as well -always staying professional and motivated. Although some women are good at such jobs, I think men more commonly do them, because they have a different metabolism, but also a different mindset and life focus. I don't think women should be told from day one that they can't do things, because everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want. But ya, it's like they're saying women should be completely equal to men in the workforce (when both are totally different), but then the incentive to even do some honest work isnt even there. Such a ridiculous fucked up world.
There is so many young ones that don't want to continue education, but then also don't want to put in the effort in a manual labor job. Notions. (to add i also am a young one lol) Fair play anyway for getting into a job that pays this well
What is the job
Anecdotally a lot of younger people I meet seem ill equipped to handle hard work and I don’t think it’s a failing on their part but the people who raised them
This is in line with my thinking
With all this money you're making surely you can afford a few full stops?
Reading his comments and post is giving me a headache
What kind of work do you do when your in your 40’s then? After your body can’t take it anymore? Your 3rd level educated peers will most likely be able to continue their career choice till retirement.
This comment is screaming snobbery through my phone. Colllege is completley overrated. Plenty of b/s courses that people waste years of their lives on in hope of entering certain ondustries. We.need sprayers/sprayers / scaffolder/plumbers etc way more than philsophy and politocs graduates. 'Your third level educated peers' ?! hows the view from your high horse?!
Where did I mention or give a dismissive impression of trades? The OP said it was very physically intensive work. He also compared himself to his 3rd level educated peers. I was merely pointing out that his current career choice might give him short term gain, but doing a physically intensive job as he described does not appear to be possible long term.
Also sitting on your hole in front of a computer screen all day every day comes with it's own host of physical issues. College is overrated. I have 3 university qualifications and chose to work a physical job and feel fantastic now coming up on 40 in comparison to how I felt in my early 20s sitting on my ass stressed out in front of a computer.
3 university degrees and still couldn’t forge a professional career. Sounds like you’re just bitter against office workers. Any office populated with 3rd level educated professionals will live longer and healthier lives than any man who spends his life on a building site.
Hahaha I guess you have a lard arse. I bet I have more to show for my work than you do 🤣🤣🤣
Far from it. Gym 4/5 times a week and a very well paid job thank you. I definitely have more intelligence than you. You scream cave man.
I'm a woman but keep going 🤣🤣🤣 "I definitely have more intelligence than you"...you scream fat sad sack
A woman 😂😂😂 oh lord. Bet your one and onlys name is Anto or Deano.
Aww you hate the shcobies as much as the foreigners? But not as much as 2 royals who have no bearing on your life.
You spend your days bitching about Harry and Meaghan. Oh and foreigners 🤣🤣🤣
Fatty boom boom
Downvoted by low muscle mass office eejits 🤣🤣🤣
Inactivity is the biggest killer, very few overweight lads on sites except the machine drivers
I'd agree. Can be sorted by stretching and going to the gym before or after the day at the office too, but most are too lazy.
Stretching is also critically important if your in manual labour, not so much in your 20's but essential in your 30's
What 3 did you study?
They got a BA in Jam Making, then a MSc in Jam Making, then a PhD in Jam Making. I believe their dissertation was on the exciting new frontier of blueberry jam.
Congratulations on your achievements. You earned what is yours. Prepare for your future though, make sure if you get sick or injured, you are taken care of, you and yours, that’s my only advice. But, by all means, “Make hay while the sun is shining”
Can you elaborate on the job?
Where you earning that as a sprayer?
What's your job?
Well done bud . Shit ain’t easy.
Keep your mask on and look after your health, it will be easier when you own your own place in 10 years and 3 lads spraying for you.
It's a pity that the education system in ireland is geared towards getting a place in college. I hated school and was terrible academically. In my school, we could do woodwork up until junior cert. I was always at the top of the class, interested and engaged. I was one of the best in that class but terrible at everything else. I somehow pass everything in my leaving cert 2007 I went labouring on a site and after months of hard work i quickly realised i wanted to serve my time and do an apprenticeship. I got into a factory to serve my time as a fitter. I was very lucky there were a lot of older guys around 60 years old who had so much experience to give. Looking back, I learned a hell of a lot from these men about life and how to manage money and deal with people. I often think I would like to go back to my old school and speak to young lads about apprenticeships as it has set me up for life. I bought a house when I was 25, have a salary of close to 80k, and another 20k of bonus and benefits on this. It's a Monday to Fri job with flexible hours each day. It didn't just land on my lap though I had to work my way up the ranks to this. I think it's a pity the attitude towards people that want to do a job that doesn't involve having a degree from college.
Inspiring story. I'm trying to help my kids figure out what fits them well, a story like yours is good to keep in mind.
Thanks, there is so much to apprenticeships, good and bad. But not mnch information available to help parents or kids make informed decisions.
Contact your old school and give them your details- they may have a careers week & have people from different backgrounds come in and do Q&A and thr pros & cons of the job.
I meet the principal from time to time about town. I must speak to him about it. If it helps some young lad make a decision, it would be great
When you say 'take home 60 - 70k', I assume you're making 110-125k before tax? If so, well done, that's pretty savage money for non-educated work! This reminds me of people working in mines in Australia, very good money for young fit people, but becomes hard to sustain after 10 years of it.
Lads I'm not a labourer but the people saying you'll be broke up at 40 from it, yeah that's true for most but all of your parents grandparents laboured for a pastime between jobs, how young people work is the issue not the work, nice and steady pace and don't rush is what I was thought!
My dad is 6 months to retirement (66)and was a plumber/fitters and then foreman. His ankle and knees are bolloxed now. So is my friend and he's only 38. Me dad was telling me that this generation see manual labour as a think of the past and everything is online, so much so that it's hard to fill apprenticeship. There are lads 38, 39 in there 40s doing apprenticeships now. Lack of resource means the rate for manual labour keeps rising. I'm an Engineer and there is such a lack of resources in Ireland they have lads moving here from all around the world. This has brought the quality of work right down with poor experienced lads. Anyone half decent apprentice now is miles ahead of the curve. Me and my wife both have degrees and always tell out 16 yo son to get some manual skills under his belt like getting a trade after school and then go to college down the line.
If you're happy that's great. Personally I'd rather sit on my hole in an office and earn half as much.
You must have missed the class on punctuation. Do you have to work outdoors?
You missed the real life while attending your classes, that's not how you get an answer to a question.
What is this work? I'm interested. Most countries employ foreigners to do hard or manual labor, it has been lost to a degree.
Yes money in trades now, I say that as someone who is your age and works in finance. All those degrees are becoming largely useless quite quickly. Although I am doing well, by comparison, a good plumber or electrician has a good future .
Gas that seemingly every few days there’s posts on here about people wanting to ditch their soul crushing office job and get into the trades. Then this fella posts about actually working trades making good money and everyone is replying about how terrible the trades are and how great office work is. Reddit loves to be contrary I guess
What do you do?
I don’t know of many jobs you can get paid that well for just physically difficult work, you must have some sort of skill. You saying you a sprayer I don’t know if you mean cars or what but I’d imagine spraying to be more skill than physically demanding.
No disrespect but I’m earning that at 21 from my degree, and mines is sustainable long term because its an office job and not physically demanding. IMO, a carefully chosen college degree is always worth it (carefully chosen = not doing something dumb like gender studies ofc)
Yeah no that's really good and good on ya! There's a lot who aren't though and to earn that salary after tax is nearly 100k is a lot to expect out of college with a degree
Fair play to you OP.
Good going OP. Good gig I think today everyone is hell bent on college and all it entails and there is a degree of snobbery in people deciding to go into trades etc. I know plenty of college graduates working in bars and factories as certain courses amount to little.. I’d always recommend doing an actual discipline eg accounting / engineering where there is a definite path to a great future. I know a sprayer who worked well into his sixties. Handy thing about the trades is the autonomy which works well as you get older and hopefully you pick and choose what suits. That said take it easy too, slow and steady finishes the race!
> I’d always recommend doing an actual discipline eg accounting / engineering where there is a definite path to a great future. I don't think you need a definite path, most STEM courses lead into good jobs. Physics for example opens up a lot of options in many fields.
Your net pay as a labourer is 60k - 70k? Utter horseshit.
I thought for a minute the job was a deep sea diver in North Sea where you earn £200/300k per annum and not €60/70. Your peers will be able to work to 67 OP and then probably have a long trouble free retirement. Even if they earn less than you they will out earn in the long run.
What? Why would you think this was the job in question? Nothing lines up with that
Im 26 and had a similar experience. Alot of the lads I went to school with done well in the Leaving cert and went to college but ended up working in bookies and retail shops close to home, most of them didn’t pursue a job career in what they studied for in college. I failed my leaving due to the same reasons you mentioned above. Absent because I hated it and dossing when I was present, but landed in a good job with a good salary. I was always interested in the more physical and practical side of work and was always curious as to why alot of the people I went to school with my age and younger weren’t. I never found out exactly why but I strongly believe it’s a generational thing. Genetics and upbringing could also have a part to play considering a lot of kids were guided heavily towards college, not knowing it was possible to make a good living from some hard work and dedication outside of the school system.
I mean it depends on what degree, what grade, what experiences one attempted, what college, & what interview & CV skills someone has. Someone with a good grade in stem from ucd/tcd who interned, got experiences & practised up their cv & interviewing skills will do great.
I guess.. but they passed the leaving cert an I didn’t, followed through with college an I didn’t, not about what grade this that and the other at all imo. They went and got degrees, I didn’t and have had a quite successful career so far. The point I’m trying to make is that they’re more educated and more qualified as they have degrees and they took up basic jobs. I done the complete opposite to them and found more success. Majority of them studied business.
It is about the grades and what college and what course you go to though. Passing the LC and going to college does not guarantee you a good living whatsoever.
Is it though? Others like me in my year/class who left school early or failed leaving went on to own their own businesses and being quite successful. Again no degree or school behind them, the points I’m trying to make here are in relation to the OP. Many in our age group don’t want to graft because they’ve spent majority of their life so far at a desk studying for school college etc and don’t know the meaning of the word graft. School is definitely not needed to be successful or to make a good living. My post is an attempt at validating that point.
I never said school was needed to be successful or to make a good living. What I did say was that going to college is not a magic bullet to a good career. But if you do get a very good leaving, go to UCD or TCD, do a top course and get a good degree you’re going to be able to have a very good career, and reach salary levels which you can’t easily reach without a degree.
I didn’t say you did, I was agreeing with you at the end there. Exactly my point, college, grades, degrees etc don’t necessarily mean everything and you can go on and be successful without them. Of course going about it the right way and landing in that right job is crucial but it doesn’t happen to everybody. Like I said I’m trying to validate this through my experience and what happened with lads in my year/class in school. I’m not taking a dig at anyone who does college or doesn’t. I’m just making a point and relating to the OP that I had a similar experience.
Points, college, grades and a good degree do more often than not mean you will be able to have a good shot at being successful. Especially if you do the right degree and the right internships. As I said already.
Not from my experience. As I said already.
You have experience in getting very high points in the leaving, going to TCD or UCD, getting top results and doing top internships? I thought you said you failed your leaving?
as expected reddit is full of negativity for someone espousing the virtues of working hard. good for you man, find it amusing people talk about your back getting wrecked, etc, etc, i know guys who started in trades who had the right brains, and moved into starting their own businesses, contracting, etc, with serious money. if your smart you dont have to do break your back forever. leverage your physical strength and stamina, save your money, make a few right friends, learn the trade and go do it on your own so you are out of the grind before your body starts deteriorating and you have other streams of income. 70 at 27 is great, just have a long term view of how this fits into your life and keep working hard.
With the caveat that "really difficult physically" could mean debilitatingly hard on the body, I truly believe that in the next two decades physical jobs will beat out white collar jobs. Even now, jobs in mining, petrochemicals, and qualifed trade pay even higher than mid-level tech jobs. Truth of the matter is, software (read: AI) develops way faster than robotics. We already have AI that is infinitely superior to humans in some domains but general purpose humanoid robot that even approaches human level dexterity is probably decades away. Physics is a b.tch. So, if I had a teenager kid today I would steer them towards medicine or some physical trade. Operating heavy machinery, oil rigs, mining, maritime jobs on long haul cargo ships are real heavy work but they are also quite AI safe. Also, tradespeople like carpenters, electricians, even handyman will always be in demand and you might own your own business and decide on how much wear and tear on your body you will tolerate. I am not saying it's easy. I am now at an age where I cannot pivot to a trade and probably my senior role is safe from AI for a few more years, but if I were planning a career now, I would definitely think AI resistant jobs where only a human like robot can replace you as a viable long term option. Maybe a bit morose outlook on my part, but I believe we are entering a new age when one thinks about labour they will think of your physical labour first as most mental jobs will be either delegated to AI or because of immense efficiency they will be done by way fewer employees.
Onlyfeet.com and feetpics.com is where I make my cash. No degree required but spend a fortune on anti fungal creams so not without its costs
How long do you think you can do this gig? I earned fuck all until my thirties. Then I finished my PhD and broke into 6 figures. It's nice to have a job that's easier than the bartending I was doing before graduating. It allows for a healthier lifestyle and I can forsee a time when the returns on my savings will surpass my income. No high paying physical job I was exposed to offered that when I was in my 20s.
I get the opinion of what do you do when you can't do that, another thought opens up, my grandfather built houses and laid block the his late seventies and farmed till his mid 80s and died at 96 still mobile
Chefs get paid well a average hotel headchef job would bank you €70000pa
Horrible work and any head chef I worked with was a horrible person with a God complex
Very hard work and unsociable hours
All the one being on 70k when you work 12 plus hours a day
Use the good money now to set you up so you don’t have to do it forever. Buy a house and think about the next phase. Nothing wrong with hard work. You’ll be grand. Good luck!
farming
That pretty shady to me, unless it's like some fishing boat which could be hit or miss and fairly risky.
Before I went to college I used to work with travelling fairs here and in the UK. The amount of fellas in their early 40s missing fingers, with knee replacements and abusing alcohol to deal with chronic back pain was madness. I was 14/15 earning €700/wk over summer but I was too tired to spend the money by the end of it. I agree that college isn't the only answer but the trades still need to adopt a basic culture of safety and respect for peoples bodies or it'll never entice the young lad/lass who has more brains than braun.
I also do a physically challenging job but these kind of jobs are not sustainable as you get older. I know I will be looking to change in the next few years and I am prepared to take a substancial pay cut.
OP I know plenty of qualified plumbers and electricians pulling in that sort of money. College isn’t for everyone but trades are paying great money at the minute.
You're assuming that hard work is exclusive to physical labor, it isn't. I've worked on sites and come home from the office sometimes just as tired as if I had been on the site. Also, the reason I got off sites was from talking to lads in their mid 30s and older who had a list as long as their arm of things wrong with them from labouring for years.
Is 60-70k gross or net?
University possibly for doctors And surgeons & the likes! The rest of the people can gain far better experience/ skill set via a apprentice scheme, scrap uni degrees! Over rated
Shite bag post this man ain’t making no money
Probably because hard graft jobs are toxic as fuck. My brother earns great money but you couldn’t pay me enough to work in his environment: people fighting on sites all the time, robbing lunches, robbing tools, smelly unclean toilets and lunch areas, bullying seems to be rampant, full of scrotes, etc… Then you’ve got the physical diminishing of your body. My father started bricklaying at 15 (left after his junior cert from school) and did it until 52. Then he was put out for back problems. I don’t recall a day during his working years that he didn’t complain about his back or didn’t come home absolutely shattered. Plus his days were very long: waking up at 6am, getting home at 6pm, napping almost instantly. He basically had zero free time Monday to Friday. Meanwhile.. my “degree job” (which I’ve no degree for) pays me 85k a year and we’ve none of the problems of above, I work from my bed and I start when I want and finish when I want. This may be why people don’t go to “hard physical jobs” now.
Having worked both in trade and office work there’s pros and cons for both in terms of health, plenty of office workers have bad backs and carpel tunnel due to poor posture and ergonomics. Trades it’s easier to incur injuries depending on the trade so you really need to be on top of exercises and tools to reduce the impact long term. I’ve seen guys do the same job on site but in very different ways that really hit home to me the ethic of work smart not hard. Trades are fantastic if you don’t want to go a college route but it’s by far not a no learning experience as you’re continually learning both the job and how to do it more efficiently.
You need to wake up and realise to capitalists you're nothing but a disposable number. They'll use your body until you're broken and then bin you, at least 3 guys in the training course I did were ex building site labourers, all under 40 and all were unable to beat me, never worked out once, I'm an arm wrestle and it's not because I'm all that, coz I'm pretty average, but they're backs are fucked up. The whole glorification of the grind bs needs to die. Selling your body until it's broken more rapidly for a minimal and temporary gain and then shitting on people smarter than you because of their wage isn't the victory you think it is. Those people don't care about you. So be smart, don't let them just use you up.
I see where you’re coming from but I don’t think OP was ‘shitting on ppl smarter than them’ necessarily, although I did detect notes of antielitism inferiority complex. Equally I would argue that not everyone with a degree is naturally smarter than someone without one, they’re just more educated. Disliking school and structured education doesn’t equate to being stupid or a general dislike of learning, it can be more of a preference thing. I agree with you fully on the issue being late stage capitalism. I was in a professional job where I was working 60-80 hours a week until I was near being hospitalised. When I went to my boss about it he told me he once HAD been hospitalised for that reason, to take a week off and get back in the saddle. Similarly, growing up I did ‘hard graft’ jobs from farm work to cleaning dishes and working in a kitchen. In both instances I was seen as a disposable cog to be used and disposed of if I stopped being useful. Until we move towards a system that benefits humanity as a whole rather just a wealthy few this will be an issue. You will be used up, physically and/or mentally and cast aside. And a degree is only valuable until they find a cheaper alternative (new machines, AI etc.) I have a friend who’s high up in a tech company and their entire job is making a plan to get rid of as many jobs as possible over the next few years and I’m not talking about unskilled roles. They’re coming for us all comrade.
I should probably have said anti-intellectualism but not everyone gets that. I agree cohort, capitalism has had its day abs every year 20+ million die because of it, time for something else.
I know what you meant, I’ve often got frustrated at those types of sentiments too. It’s feels like they are arguing that putting yourself through years of college then starting at entry level is a walk in the park. The main thing most people don’t understand is we have more in common than different. There is no working class or educated class or blue collar and white collar, that’s all obfuscation. There’s the working class (who work for a living) and the wealth class (who make money off their money) and that’s it. We should all be unionising and holding politicians accountable to ppl not corporations but everyone gets distracted trying to find enemies in their own ranks and pass the hate down to anyone they perceive as lower in status than themselves, whether that’s ’the uneducated’ or ‘ppl afraid of a hard days work’. We skilled labour and manual labour. What we don’t need is abhorrently wealthy ppl, and that isn’t even millionaires, that’s billionaires.
The root of all oppression is anti-intellectualism. When the mega rich make it so the population is mostly not educated in critical thinking, reasoning and only educated enough to operate the machines, they find it easy to squeeze the poor for every penny and make so they are so busy surviving they don't have time to question why. I agree they are the enemy, and they depend upon the state as their truncheon to beat dissenters. No gods, no masters, no borders cohort.
Spot on!
I left about 15 years ago so I genuinely don't know but I'm surprised to see $60-70k described as good money. I'd assume it depends on where you live. I'm living in a big US city now and $70k wouldn't get you far here. It'd be an okay middle class lifestyle if single, but if you wanted to live anywhere nice within a half hour of the city, you'd be in a one-bed apartment, maybe a studio.