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The commandment of Quran is laying out a principle about who shouldn’t be obeyed; it is not act of calling bad names or using foul language for no good reason.
Hadith is vague and on top can’t be true considering the overall character of the Holy Prophet pbuh. There are countless hadiths proving otherwise.
Both are bad examples and don’t justify the foul language of MGA.
This is a great point.
How is it that parts of the books of promised Messiah are well beyond PG rated? Not only that, no self respecting individual would ever have the courage to read some of them even in a meeting of Ansar.
Now juxtapose this with the claim that every word, spoken or written of the promised Messiah is written with help from Allah and protected by the holy Spirit and things become very concerning.
Are you trying to deflect this disrespectful and disgusting language?
A divinely guided man should not resort to distasteful language in his texts. I don’t understand why you don’t have a problem with this. Blindly justifying it?
My answer is that this is not unique to Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS.
For any ex Ahmadi Muslims here- you can’t use this as an argument because it also would go against the Quran, the Prophet Muhammad SAW and other prophets i.e Isa.
And also: context matters.
Actually the promised Messiah was clear that it is against the Quran to have or express love for non-believers. He said you can have sympathy with them but cannot have love towards them.
This slogan is a PR stunt that the Jamaat pulled much later in its life to position themselves in the west.
Correct. The phrase was first coined by Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jilani in the 12th century, and then picked up by KM3 as the Jamaat's 'motto'. MGA never used it.
You are trying to justify promised Messiah's liberal use of hardcore foul mouthing and cursing by presenting pretty tame examples of Quranic curse words and some questionable ahadith and hoping that a 'muslim' would fall for these tactics. Nice try.
How is it literally the same?
Quran doesn't label everyone who doesn't accept it as an offspring of a prostitute indiscriminately. The example you have presented from Quran and Hadith are very specific to individuals who have done specific wrongs. I am not saying those words are justified either. But the promised Messiah has taken things to a whole new level.
“ They wish you would compromise so they would yield ˹to you˺. And do not obey the despicable, vain oath-taker, slanderer, gossip-monger, withholder of good, transgressor, evildoer, brute, and—on top of all that—an illegitimate child. “
(68:9-13)
A'isha reported that two persons visited Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and both of them talked about a thing, of which I am not aware, but that annoyed him and he invoked curse upon both of them and hurled malediction, and when they went out I said:
Allah's Messenger, the good would reach everyone but it would not reach these two. He said: Why so? I said: Because you have invoked curse and hurled malediction upon both of them. He said: Don't you know that I have made condition with my Lord saying thus: O Allah, I am a human being and that for a Muslim upon whom I invoke curse or hurl malediction make it a source of purity and reward. (Sahih Muslim 2600a)
https://sunnah.com/muslim:2600a
Have provided both Quranic verses and a Hadith affirming this. Hadrat Isa AS has also cursed as referenced in the Bible.
Again for any ex ahmadi Muslims out there, don’t bother using this argument against us, because you will just end up refuting yourselves. If you reject Promised Messiah AS based on the language shown in OP’s post, then by that logic you should also reject the Quran and the Prophets…
Again, context matters.
So you don't accept it as a valid defense of promised Messiah's bad-mouthing that other prophets and even God does it?
What exactly is your issue here, O' Pagan?
God has the right to be totally frustrated and lose his temper once in a while, doesn't he?
😉😀
The Quran is is from God, so if God decides to use such language here and there, does not mean that a prophet can also use such words.
The example of the Hadith is showing an immediate reaction of Muhammad. MGA on the other hand takes his time and writes passages of cursing (like the 1000x cursing). As you said context matters, there is difference betweem a reaction and actually using foul language in ones writing....
In our beloved Holy Qur'an, Allah Subanna Watallah instructs us to take a very firm stance against our opponents and maintain justice and promote truth and call out falsehood. I will study this matter further no doubt because it is one of great significance it seems. But it is the weak minded who will quarrel over such ideas and politics....
There is such a thing as critical thinking ability. And what I found over the past 4 years of this Plan-demic of the Dajjal groups... Is that most people fell for it... our families, our friends, our coworkers, our neighbors.
In general, If you took a vaccination or participated in wearing the face muzzle throughout these past 4 years, it means you are easily manipulated or deceived... That is FIRM. And very obvious today lol...
In matters of Ahmadiyyat and in particular Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. I grew up in Canada amongst Sunnis, Shias, Christians etc... I grew up learning from Sunni scholars, teachers, imaams, friends etc... it wasn't until the past few years that I began digesting the literature of the Ahmadiyya jamaat and contrasting between what I learnt growing up from outside the jamaat. And I'm not yet finished I have thousands of hours to dedicate further.
What I've found is at least 90% of that which surrounds M.G.A is sufficient to accept him as the divine Reformer of the times;
- He did cripple Christianity through his arguments and Tafseer of the Qur'an and Hadiths
- He is correct in his claim that the Qur'an states that Isa Ibn Maryam has died. Where, is up for debate. But that's something which can be proven in our lifetime
- The Ahmadiyya Jamaat is the only Jamaat, and you may not find perfection in it because people are people, everywhere good and bad in every fold, family, institution etc
- He did have many revelations which came true and many were confirmed by his opponents
- He was indeed a great scholar, recognized by the Ullemah before he pointed out that Allah had revealed to him that he was the prophesied Mahdi and Messiah
- Many scholars accepted him in his lifetime and many come forward today (I'm always looking at revert stories to see if there was some basis for someone's coming to the jamaat or leaving that jamaat, what was the rationality, did they come or exit for marriage for example or would they accept anything with a bit of logic) are they truly a pious individual in prayer, in life and truly searching for answers
- When listening to debates, I pay close attention to the differences and arguments raised as well as the mannerisms of the ones involved
So in conclusion, if the Qur'an proves Isa Ibn Maryam has died and the Ahmadiyya Jamaat is the only rightly guided jamaat in this fact... and the opposition is fighting with such ignorance and disgust that they engage in foul degrees of persecution and social Boycott then I have no choice but to follow the positives to the jamaat. There are people I don't like within it... but as for the people whom are outside of it, even if they are close friends, they can be so foul, ignorant and narrow-minded that I see light even in negatives on the other side... I weighed out the pros and cons... and I'm still learning about Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to greater depths for example the arguments raised of his character and particular revelations that opponents will argue never happened... But there is rationality to consider and some things that were pointed out as against M.G.A turned out as false... it does of course matter who is making an interpretation and to what extent did they conduct research. Most people rely on Google and other people... That's an insult to one's intelligence in my opinion...
Then I've had interactions with brothers throughout the past few months...
#1.
For example, I asked a sunni brother regarding Adam Alaihis Salaam, and the theory that we came from Incestuous relations... They had to read Tafseer to understand a simple verse in which Adam Alaihis Salaam is declared a Khalifa to the Angels... A Khalifa is a Successor. I asked him who was Adam a Successor too.... he answered, Allah... and got very angry and stated, it's right here in the Tafseer, I can't believe you don't want to accept it, you're such an intelligent person, but in this matter you're closing your mind... I stayed calm, he yelled, hurried abuse and then the relation died for now lol... I asked a Christian employee of mine as well as another Christian and explained to him that science too has proved that various homosapiens existed for well over 20,000 years and were found in various places of the world recently. And he agreed... Allah would have created other tribes of people and Adam Alaihis Salaam was simply the first Khalifa of our lineage, not the 1st man. How else would the angels know that man would cause corruption and bloodshed as they replied to Allah. And how did visiting a tree reveal Adam & Eve's shame to them and cause them to cover themselves with leaves from the garden unless of course it was a 'family tree'... the Ahmadiyya jamaat is rational in this...
Then #2
Many believe in this substitution theory of Isa with someone else on the cross... it is simply a Theory... but because scholars like Mufti Menk have made this theory widespread, this is what people believe... There's no proof of this in the Quran and the theory is irrational, it doesn't stand with the Qur'an in logic either when compared to other verses which mention that all men die but Allah never says (except Isaa).
The Qur'an does state and warn however against those who associate falsehood against Allah... so these theories are dangerous.
Now the Quran also tells us to be firm against enemies, to uphold justice, truth, to not persecute others because "persecution is worse than killing." The Qur'an also warns in at least two verses against preventing others from visiting the sacred mosque so... beware... The Ummah goes against the Qur'an in many matters and if Ahmadiyyat is the correct path of bringing Muslims back to truth and not only do you disagree with it but instead of remaining neutral, you become it's opposition... you will all answer to Allah... we all will. But Ahmadis don't persecute... Sunnis do, shias do, Jews do, Christians do as a group.... but again, Ahmadis do not... Ahmadis can be a-holes... sure, because people are people... but they don't as a group persecute others or spew hate... If M.G.A did... he is making the claim that he is the second coming and Mahdi... and his opponents were trying to kill him and failed and today the progeny of his opponents are still trying to persecute M.G.A's progeny, desecrate Graves, Demolish Masjids, Boycott businesses etc...
As I said, I have thousands of hours to further-dedicate, but I'm so far very convinced when contrasting... it is better for one to do their own research in this manner than to rely on scholars....
Qur'an on being firm against enemies:
#1. 9:123
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا قَاتِلُوا الَّذِينَ يَلُونَكُمْ مِنَ الْكُفَّارِ وَلْيَجِدُوا فِيكُمْ غِلْظَةً وَاعْلَمُوا أَنَّ
Yā ayyuhalladhīna āmanū qātilūl-ladhīna yalūnakum minal-kuffāri walyajidū fīkum
ghlizatan; wa ‘lamū annallāha ma‘al-muttaqīn
O you who believe! Fight the faithless who are near to you and let them find severity
in you; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).
#2. 4:135
كُونُوا۟ قَوَّٰمِينَ بِٱلْقِسْطِ شُهَدَآءَ لِلَّهِ وَلَوْ عَلَىٰٓ أَنفُسِكُمْ أَوِ ٱلْوَٰلِدَيْنِ وَٱلْأَقْرَبِينَ ۚ إِن يَكُنْ غَنِيًّا أَوْ فَقِيرًۭا فَٱللَّهُ أَوْلَىٰ بِهِمَا ۖ فَلَا تَتَّبِعُوا۟ ٱلْهَوَىٰٓ أَن تَعْدِلُوا۟ ۚ وَإِن تَلْوُۥٓا۟ أَوْ تُعْرِضُوا۟ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ كَانَ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ خَبِيرًۭا ١٣٥
O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allāh, even if it be against yourselves or parents and relatives. Whether one is rich or poor, Allāh is more worthy of both.1 So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be just. And if you distort [your testimony] or refuse [to give it], then indeed Allāh is ever, of what you do, Aware.
#3. 8:45
یَـٰۤأَیُّهَا ٱلَّذِینَ ءَامَنُوۤا۟ إِذَا لَقِیتُمۡ فِئَةࣰ فَٱثۡبُتُوا۟ وَٱذۡكُرُوا۟ ٱللَّهَ كَثِیرࣰا لَّعَلَّكُمۡ تُفۡلِحُونَ ٤
yāayyuhā alladhīna āmanū idhā laqītum fi-atan fa-uth'butū wa-udh'kurū l-laha kathīran laʿallakum tuf'liḥūn
O you who believe! When you meet a force, then be firm and remember Allah much, so that you may (be) successful
In what context would justify the use of derogatory language towards a group you’ve never met. Ive read MGA had labelled those who ignore his claims to be children of prostitutes.
Be honest, even if one were to put MGA’s claim to divinity aside, was this insult necessary to use to drive his point?
With reference to your statement " This is contradictory to Islam, **a religion of peace that promotes acceptance and kindness"** , may I know which Islam are you talking about that promotes peace , acceptance and kindness , ( **I think you are talking about the Islam that we read about in the text books**) Since over past half a centaury the Muslim nations are busy cutting each others throats and falling apart like house of cards , Lebanon , Palestine , Libya , Syria, Iraq , Iran , Afghanistan x 2 , last but not the least Yamen.
When they are not cutting their throats some one else is doing it for them , Bosnia , Kashmir , Uyghur province in China.
To mention or not to mention the Militant Jihadist Terrorists and Suicide Bombers Faction of Islam , Al-Qaida , Isis , Islamic State , who make news all over the world once every few weeks . The last few include the attack on Salman Rushdie which followed the murder of Al-Qaida Leader AlZawari , before that The Pakistani people in Sialkot beat a Srilankan with stick and stones and dragged his body in the streets and then burnt the dead body **while the Whole world Watched in shock and disbelief.** This was followed by Slogans of " **Labaik Ya Rasool allah .**
May I know which Planet do you live on . Where you see and Experience Peace full Islam promoting kindness and acceptance.
The best Predictors of Future behavior is the past behaviors , how many Islamic nations will cut each others throats and fall apart like house of cards in the next half a century is for you to sit back and watch .
There is a famous saying in English Language , **There is a writing on the wall and none is as blind as one who cannot see.**
Bro stop with strawmanning. In the last couple of months, we’ve had 3 high profile Ahmadi sex offenders be convicted. Do I start painting all Ahmadis with the same brush and say you’re all sex offenders?
Deflecting by levelling the same accusation against the Quran and the Prophet doesn't actually help you. It just paints the entire Islamic exercise to be potty-mouthed and serves to further drive good, decent and polite people away from Islam or religion generally. You are not just shooting yourself in the foot, you are burning the whole body. You would prefer to sell out the Quran and the Prophet, and any other prophet, just to try to salvage MGA.
That you would pursue that line of reasoning is telling of the degree to which you are unable to discern objectively. Sad.
That said, there reallty is no comparison between what is in the Quran and the level and sheer volume of the profanities contained in MGA's writings and to whom it is directed.
The same can be said of Hadith vis-a-vis MGA's profanities, but even then, nothing in the Hadith can constitute any actual evidence of anything the Prophet actually said.
When I was growing up and being indoctrinated, I recall my murabbi citing seemingly rude statements made by Jesus as proof of the superiority of the Prophet over him. In one of my chats with Mirza Rafi Sahib, he raised the exact same point. Unfortunately, both of them completely ignored/suppressed much much worse by MGA.
Singling out is taking place because of MGA's claims. If it was an ordinary Molvi, it could've been ignored. MGA claimed to be a second coming of every known prophet (almost) and on top he called himself better then Prophet Muhammad sa.
So this kind of language is not suitable for a prophet of this caliber.
Instead of bringing Allah, Quran and the Holy Prophet down to prove MGA right, it is far better to say that MGA was a human with some human weaknesses as well.
You've identified the fundamental problem with Ahmadiyya theology and their inability to answer this issue.
As Ahmadiyya theology teaches that all prophets were infallible people whom Allah made incapable of making mistakes, they cannot concede any human weakness on MGA's part. Therefore, in order to defend MGA, when he is going down, they must unjustly take Allah, the Quran and the Prophet down with him.
Ahmadi apologists have no response that doesn't result in more damage than when they started.
If you are referring to u/fatwamachine, based on his abysmal performance as an Ahmadi apologist and having shown himself to be a liar (ie., saying he has responded and provided proofs for Khilafat as an Islamic injunction when he never has), I now suspect he is actually here to help ex-Ahmadis and to push doubting Ahmadis away from the Jamaat. This appears plainly evident from the tremendous weakness of his arguments.
I don’t know whether your replies are more hilarious or embarrassing. You have time to reply with random insults but not to relevant discussion. In all seriousness, I’d expect more maturity from a medical student. Do better.
>No one cares bro
You lied when you said that you had responded and provided proofs for Khilafat being an Islamic injunction. Allah cares about lying, bro.
That maybe, you know whats really cringe tho your shilling to KM5,
But let me ask you, I'm curious, what makes you believe the Mirza family, tell me why do you think they are the chosen ones. Enlighten me.
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The commandment of Quran is laying out a principle about who shouldn’t be obeyed; it is not act of calling bad names or using foul language for no good reason. Hadith is vague and on top can’t be true considering the overall character of the Holy Prophet pbuh. There are countless hadiths proving otherwise. Both are bad examples and don’t justify the foul language of MGA.
If we take this as true, what is the issue exactly? That he was acting in a manner not befitting of a Prophet?
Would you teach your Children to use such language? If not why not ? If some used this language in front of you, what would be your opinion of them?
This is a great point. How is it that parts of the books of promised Messiah are well beyond PG rated? Not only that, no self respecting individual would ever have the courage to read some of them even in a meeting of Ansar. Now juxtapose this with the claim that every word, spoken or written of the promised Messiah is written with help from Allah and protected by the holy Spirit and things become very concerning.
Are you trying to deflect this disrespectful and disgusting language? A divinely guided man should not resort to distasteful language in his texts. I don’t understand why you don’t have a problem with this. Blindly justifying it?
So why single out Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS?
Because we’re on a forum discussing Ahmadiyyat. What do you expect?
I suppose you have no answer to this childish language MGA is using. No one is singleing him out but shining light onto his text.
My answer is that this is not unique to Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS. For any ex Ahmadi Muslims here- you can’t use this as an argument because it also would go against the Quran, the Prophet Muhammad SAW and other prophets i.e Isa. And also: context matters.
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Actually the promised Messiah was clear that it is against the Quran to have or express love for non-believers. He said you can have sympathy with them but cannot have love towards them. This slogan is a PR stunt that the Jamaat pulled much later in its life to position themselves in the west.
Correct. The phrase was first coined by Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jilani in the 12th century, and then picked up by KM3 as the Jamaat's 'motto'. MGA never used it.
You Muslim?
You are trying to justify promised Messiah's liberal use of hardcore foul mouthing and cursing by presenting pretty tame examples of Quranic curse words and some questionable ahadith and hoping that a 'muslim' would fall for these tactics. Nice try.
It is literally the same…there is no “falling” for these tactics, it’s a dumb argument for non ahmadi Muslims to use in the first place.
How is it literally the same? Quran doesn't label everyone who doesn't accept it as an offspring of a prostitute indiscriminately. The example you have presented from Quran and Hadith are very specific to individuals who have done specific wrongs. I am not saying those words are justified either. But the promised Messiah has taken things to a whole new level.
Show me where such vile language is in the Quran or any authentic Hadith attributed to the Prophet Muhammad SAW?
“ They wish you would compromise so they would yield ˹to you˺. And do not obey the despicable, vain oath-taker, slanderer, gossip-monger, withholder of good, transgressor, evildoer, brute, and—on top of all that—an illegitimate child. “ (68:9-13) A'isha reported that two persons visited Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and both of them talked about a thing, of which I am not aware, but that annoyed him and he invoked curse upon both of them and hurled malediction, and when they went out I said: Allah's Messenger, the good would reach everyone but it would not reach these two. He said: Why so? I said: Because you have invoked curse and hurled malediction upon both of them. He said: Don't you know that I have made condition with my Lord saying thus: O Allah, I am a human being and that for a Muslim upon whom I invoke curse or hurl malediction make it a source of purity and reward. (Sahih Muslim 2600a) https://sunnah.com/muslim:2600a Have provided both Quranic verses and a Hadith affirming this. Hadrat Isa AS has also cursed as referenced in the Bible. Again for any ex ahmadi Muslims out there, don’t bother using this argument against us, because you will just end up refuting yourselves. If you reject Promised Messiah AS based on the language shown in OP’s post, then by that logic you should also reject the Quran and the Prophets… Again, context matters.
>(68:9-13) Thank you for showing that Allah himself is a foul-mouthed idea.
So you don't accept it as a valid defense of promised Messiah's bad-mouthing that other prophets and even God does it? What exactly is your issue here, O' Pagan? God has the right to be totally frustrated and lose his temper once in a while, doesn't he? 😉😀
Hell, God has the right to cease existing too haha... or send himself to hell. That would be interesting, seeing God suffer his own hell.
The Quran is is from God, so if God decides to use such language here and there, does not mean that a prophet can also use such words. The example of the Hadith is showing an immediate reaction of Muhammad. MGA on the other hand takes his time and writes passages of cursing (like the 1000x cursing). As you said context matters, there is difference betweem a reaction and actually using foul language in ones writing....
In our beloved Holy Qur'an, Allah Subanna Watallah instructs us to take a very firm stance against our opponents and maintain justice and promote truth and call out falsehood. I will study this matter further no doubt because it is one of great significance it seems. But it is the weak minded who will quarrel over such ideas and politics.... There is such a thing as critical thinking ability. And what I found over the past 4 years of this Plan-demic of the Dajjal groups... Is that most people fell for it... our families, our friends, our coworkers, our neighbors. In general, If you took a vaccination or participated in wearing the face muzzle throughout these past 4 years, it means you are easily manipulated or deceived... That is FIRM. And very obvious today lol... In matters of Ahmadiyyat and in particular Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. I grew up in Canada amongst Sunnis, Shias, Christians etc... I grew up learning from Sunni scholars, teachers, imaams, friends etc... it wasn't until the past few years that I began digesting the literature of the Ahmadiyya jamaat and contrasting between what I learnt growing up from outside the jamaat. And I'm not yet finished I have thousands of hours to dedicate further. What I've found is at least 90% of that which surrounds M.G.A is sufficient to accept him as the divine Reformer of the times; - He did cripple Christianity through his arguments and Tafseer of the Qur'an and Hadiths - He is correct in his claim that the Qur'an states that Isa Ibn Maryam has died. Where, is up for debate. But that's something which can be proven in our lifetime - The Ahmadiyya Jamaat is the only Jamaat, and you may not find perfection in it because people are people, everywhere good and bad in every fold, family, institution etc - He did have many revelations which came true and many were confirmed by his opponents - He was indeed a great scholar, recognized by the Ullemah before he pointed out that Allah had revealed to him that he was the prophesied Mahdi and Messiah - Many scholars accepted him in his lifetime and many come forward today (I'm always looking at revert stories to see if there was some basis for someone's coming to the jamaat or leaving that jamaat, what was the rationality, did they come or exit for marriage for example or would they accept anything with a bit of logic) are they truly a pious individual in prayer, in life and truly searching for answers - When listening to debates, I pay close attention to the differences and arguments raised as well as the mannerisms of the ones involved So in conclusion, if the Qur'an proves Isa Ibn Maryam has died and the Ahmadiyya Jamaat is the only rightly guided jamaat in this fact... and the opposition is fighting with such ignorance and disgust that they engage in foul degrees of persecution and social Boycott then I have no choice but to follow the positives to the jamaat. There are people I don't like within it... but as for the people whom are outside of it, even if they are close friends, they can be so foul, ignorant and narrow-minded that I see light even in negatives on the other side... I weighed out the pros and cons... and I'm still learning about Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to greater depths for example the arguments raised of his character and particular revelations that opponents will argue never happened... But there is rationality to consider and some things that were pointed out as against M.G.A turned out as false... it does of course matter who is making an interpretation and to what extent did they conduct research. Most people rely on Google and other people... That's an insult to one's intelligence in my opinion...
Then I've had interactions with brothers throughout the past few months... #1. For example, I asked a sunni brother regarding Adam Alaihis Salaam, and the theory that we came from Incestuous relations... They had to read Tafseer to understand a simple verse in which Adam Alaihis Salaam is declared a Khalifa to the Angels... A Khalifa is a Successor. I asked him who was Adam a Successor too.... he answered, Allah... and got very angry and stated, it's right here in the Tafseer, I can't believe you don't want to accept it, you're such an intelligent person, but in this matter you're closing your mind... I stayed calm, he yelled, hurried abuse and then the relation died for now lol... I asked a Christian employee of mine as well as another Christian and explained to him that science too has proved that various homosapiens existed for well over 20,000 years and were found in various places of the world recently. And he agreed... Allah would have created other tribes of people and Adam Alaihis Salaam was simply the first Khalifa of our lineage, not the 1st man. How else would the angels know that man would cause corruption and bloodshed as they replied to Allah. And how did visiting a tree reveal Adam & Eve's shame to them and cause them to cover themselves with leaves from the garden unless of course it was a 'family tree'... the Ahmadiyya jamaat is rational in this... Then #2 Many believe in this substitution theory of Isa with someone else on the cross... it is simply a Theory... but because scholars like Mufti Menk have made this theory widespread, this is what people believe... There's no proof of this in the Quran and the theory is irrational, it doesn't stand with the Qur'an in logic either when compared to other verses which mention that all men die but Allah never says (except Isaa). The Qur'an does state and warn however against those who associate falsehood against Allah... so these theories are dangerous. Now the Quran also tells us to be firm against enemies, to uphold justice, truth, to not persecute others because "persecution is worse than killing." The Qur'an also warns in at least two verses against preventing others from visiting the sacred mosque so... beware... The Ummah goes against the Qur'an in many matters and if Ahmadiyyat is the correct path of bringing Muslims back to truth and not only do you disagree with it but instead of remaining neutral, you become it's opposition... you will all answer to Allah... we all will. But Ahmadis don't persecute... Sunnis do, shias do, Jews do, Christians do as a group.... but again, Ahmadis do not... Ahmadis can be a-holes... sure, because people are people... but they don't as a group persecute others or spew hate... If M.G.A did... he is making the claim that he is the second coming and Mahdi... and his opponents were trying to kill him and failed and today the progeny of his opponents are still trying to persecute M.G.A's progeny, desecrate Graves, Demolish Masjids, Boycott businesses etc... As I said, I have thousands of hours to further-dedicate, but I'm so far very convinced when contrasting... it is better for one to do their own research in this manner than to rely on scholars.... Qur'an on being firm against enemies: #1. 9:123 يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا قَاتِلُوا الَّذِينَ يَلُونَكُمْ مِنَ الْكُفَّارِ وَلْيَجِدُوا فِيكُمْ غِلْظَةً وَاعْلَمُوا أَنَّ Yā ayyuhalladhīna āmanū qātilūl-ladhīna yalūnakum minal-kuffāri walyajidū fīkum ghlizatan; wa ‘lamū annallāha ma‘al-muttaqīn O you who believe! Fight the faithless who are near to you and let them find severity in you; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil). #2. 4:135 كُونُوا۟ قَوَّٰمِينَ بِٱلْقِسْطِ شُهَدَآءَ لِلَّهِ وَلَوْ عَلَىٰٓ أَنفُسِكُمْ أَوِ ٱلْوَٰلِدَيْنِ وَٱلْأَقْرَبِينَ ۚ إِن يَكُنْ غَنِيًّا أَوْ فَقِيرًۭا فَٱللَّهُ أَوْلَىٰ بِهِمَا ۖ فَلَا تَتَّبِعُوا۟ ٱلْهَوَىٰٓ أَن تَعْدِلُوا۟ ۚ وَإِن تَلْوُۥٓا۟ أَوْ تُعْرِضُوا۟ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ كَانَ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ خَبِيرًۭا ١٣٥ O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allāh, even if it be against yourselves or parents and relatives. Whether one is rich or poor, Allāh is more worthy of both.1 So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be just. And if you distort [your testimony] or refuse [to give it], then indeed Allāh is ever, of what you do, Aware. #3. 8:45 یَـٰۤأَیُّهَا ٱلَّذِینَ ءَامَنُوۤا۟ إِذَا لَقِیتُمۡ فِئَةࣰ فَٱثۡبُتُوا۟ وَٱذۡكُرُوا۟ ٱللَّهَ كَثِیرࣰا لَّعَلَّكُمۡ تُفۡلِحُونَ ٤ yāayyuhā alladhīna āmanū idhā laqītum fi-atan fa-uth'butū wa-udh'kurū l-laha kathīran laʿallakum tuf'liḥūn O you who believe! When you meet a force, then be firm and remember Allah much, so that you may (be) successful
In what context would justify the use of derogatory language towards a group you’ve never met. Ive read MGA had labelled those who ignore his claims to be children of prostitutes. Be honest, even if one were to put MGA’s claim to divinity aside, was this insult necessary to use to drive his point?
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With reference to your statement " This is contradictory to Islam, **a religion of peace that promotes acceptance and kindness"** , may I know which Islam are you talking about that promotes peace , acceptance and kindness , ( **I think you are talking about the Islam that we read about in the text books**) Since over past half a centaury the Muslim nations are busy cutting each others throats and falling apart like house of cards , Lebanon , Palestine , Libya , Syria, Iraq , Iran , Afghanistan x 2 , last but not the least Yamen. When they are not cutting their throats some one else is doing it for them , Bosnia , Kashmir , Uyghur province in China. To mention or not to mention the Militant Jihadist Terrorists and Suicide Bombers Faction of Islam , Al-Qaida , Isis , Islamic State , who make news all over the world once every few weeks . The last few include the attack on Salman Rushdie which followed the murder of Al-Qaida Leader AlZawari , before that The Pakistani people in Sialkot beat a Srilankan with stick and stones and dragged his body in the streets and then burnt the dead body **while the Whole world Watched in shock and disbelief.** This was followed by Slogans of " **Labaik Ya Rasool allah .** May I know which Planet do you live on . Where you see and Experience Peace full Islam promoting kindness and acceptance. The best Predictors of Future behavior is the past behaviors , how many Islamic nations will cut each others throats and fall apart like house of cards in the next half a century is for you to sit back and watch . There is a famous saying in English Language , **There is a writing on the wall and none is as blind as one who cannot see.**
Bro stop with strawmanning. In the last couple of months, we’ve had 3 high profile Ahmadi sex offenders be convicted. Do I start painting all Ahmadis with the same brush and say you’re all sex offenders?
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xyz Reference : article on Abd al-Wahab / Wikipedia on line Encyclopedia.
Deflecting by levelling the same accusation against the Quran and the Prophet doesn't actually help you. It just paints the entire Islamic exercise to be potty-mouthed and serves to further drive good, decent and polite people away from Islam or religion generally. You are not just shooting yourself in the foot, you are burning the whole body. You would prefer to sell out the Quran and the Prophet, and any other prophet, just to try to salvage MGA. That you would pursue that line of reasoning is telling of the degree to which you are unable to discern objectively. Sad. That said, there reallty is no comparison between what is in the Quran and the level and sheer volume of the profanities contained in MGA's writings and to whom it is directed. The same can be said of Hadith vis-a-vis MGA's profanities, but even then, nothing in the Hadith can constitute any actual evidence of anything the Prophet actually said. When I was growing up and being indoctrinated, I recall my murabbi citing seemingly rude statements made by Jesus as proof of the superiority of the Prophet over him. In one of my chats with Mirza Rafi Sahib, he raised the exact same point. Unfortunately, both of them completely ignored/suppressed much much worse by MGA.
Singling out is taking place because of MGA's claims. If it was an ordinary Molvi, it could've been ignored. MGA claimed to be a second coming of every known prophet (almost) and on top he called himself better then Prophet Muhammad sa. So this kind of language is not suitable for a prophet of this caliber.
Instead of bringing Allah, Quran and the Holy Prophet down to prove MGA right, it is far better to say that MGA was a human with some human weaknesses as well.
You've identified the fundamental problem with Ahmadiyya theology and their inability to answer this issue. As Ahmadiyya theology teaches that all prophets were infallible people whom Allah made incapable of making mistakes, they cannot concede any human weakness on MGA's part. Therefore, in order to defend MGA, when he is going down, they must unjustly take Allah, the Quran and the Prophet down with him. Ahmadi apologists have no response that doesn't result in more damage than when they started.
Sometimes I feel like you're trolling.
If you are referring to u/fatwamachine, based on his abysmal performance as an Ahmadi apologist and having shown himself to be a liar (ie., saying he has responded and provided proofs for Khilafat as an Islamic injunction when he never has), I now suspect he is actually here to help ex-Ahmadis and to push doubting Ahmadis away from the Jamaat. This appears plainly evident from the tremendous weakness of his arguments.
u/fatwamachine what do you have to say about these allegations, we the people are calling you out. 😂😂
“We the people are calling you out” So cringe. Do you think you are in a movie or something? No one cares bro
I don’t know whether your replies are more hilarious or embarrassing. You have time to reply with random insults but not to relevant discussion. In all seriousness, I’d expect more maturity from a medical student. Do better.
>No one cares bro You lied when you said that you had responded and provided proofs for Khilafat being an Islamic injunction. Allah cares about lying, bro.
That maybe, you know whats really cringe tho your shilling to KM5, But let me ask you, I'm curious, what makes you believe the Mirza family, tell me why do you think they are the chosen ones. Enlighten me.