Community is what will save us, not isolation. Fascism and corporatism thrives on the death of community and the atomization of individuals. Those communities... might want to be armed, though.
I certainly recommend trans Americans, hell, probably LGBTQ in general, all get armed and trained to use those arms. Trump's online platform already promises to erase trans people from the country, you will be forced into the gender that right wing religion decides. This, and other hitlerific pledges abound on Trump's campaign pages.
Even if you are a liberal that's unarmed find your local ally anarchist and they'll arm you. I'm no liberal but in a situation like this we are allies.
It’s the joint idea that the left is unarmed and doesn’t exist in rural areas for me.
We do. And we are. We’re just quiet about it and don’t go around strapped up like the Gravy Seals: Meal Team 6.
Ironically, we tend to also be more community oriented and into shit like homesteading. Let it come and I guarantee you’d have Resistance outposts complete with community potlucks before you know it.
I'm a small woman, but I did 6 years active duty in the USMC.
I can use most small to large firearms, can perform basic helicopter operations, and I'm ok at cqc.
I'm also gay as cheese.
Let them come, I've not had a decent fight in a decade.
Exactly man. Me and my community preppers and homesteaders know what’s up. Wouldn’t be surprised if we’d end up the better fed organization, and that can be just as important as anything else. Starving people don’t fight so good
You know y’all preppers (the general y’all, I don’t know about you personally) get a bad rap.
It’s just taking root cellars to a whole new level, and I’m here for it.
Being brutally honest armed liberals aren’t a threat to fascism. Liberals on the whole bend the knee as soon as the fascists take state power. We’ll see what happens, but I wouldn’t hold my breath for any functional armed resistance from libs.
Queer, trans, or otherwise marginalized folks who can safely own guns should ABSOLUTELY be looking at getting armed and trained. The liberal establishment is unlikely to protect any of us against fascism. It never has before.
Agreed, the disarming of the American left has been a concerted effort by those in power since the at least the 50s but likely earlier Armed leftist groups are what gave us strong unions in the robber baron era. Now as we enter the gilded age part deux many on the american left have been convinced that gun ownership is taboo leaving only the right, the people ready and willing to dive into fascism, armed. Its a recipe for our communities to be picked apart with little to no resistance.
Free Leonard Peltier
Free Mumia
Buy copies of "It can't happen here" and "Gun curious" and hand them out to your friends. Have tough conversations. A cowardly intelligentsia, that self isolates and withers in the shadow of authoritarianism, does not help humanity. Liberals and progressives have forgotten that abstract systems are not in and of themselves power, only the projections of physical power that underpins them. A reclamation of patriotism by the thinking persons of society, and the value of strength in the physical world and in community is crucial. It is better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war. The founders did not create the 2nd for fetishism or for one ideological group to have a monopoly. It is a backstop at the base of the hierarchy of needs.
Things are likely not as bad as we fear, but we must be prepared if they get that way.
Also: This Nonviolent Stuf’ll Get You Killed.
Great book, Robert Evans recommended.
I also agree that the best prep you can do is, in no particular order, community, fitness, knowledge. The second best prep is clairvoyance, and the third best is buying guns and ammo when they are cheap and relying on the first best preps to know how to store and train.
ETA: I just gotta add this quote that I have no idea about its origin, but it goes something like : “a person unable to do violence isn’t peaceful, they are harmless”
> Unarmed almost universally.
This probably needs to change.
As they say, you can be 99% peace and love and light, but you gotta have that 1% that's "go fuck yourself," just in case of fascists.
It's never too late to start firearms training. I'm so far left I got my guns back. I and a number of my friends are buying weapons and learning to use them. We don't make it part of our identity, but we recognize them as useful tools.
They might be loot drops for you,
But vice versa is also true...
If they come for you, don't let 'em kill ya,
And if they do, go full-on guerrilla!!
(I don't know why that came out in rhyme,
My head's in a weird place during this strange time...)
I am an unarmed hippie. I recently started looking into arming myself. More importantly though, I left everything I had behind and moved to a better state to try and buy land to house a community of people with somewhat similar mindsets. I don’t have the land or the people yet, but this is what feels right and I’ve been working towards it for several years at this point. I think community is what will eventually save humanity, but it is also what will make the next years tolerable.
I’m just saying that we do exist and our numbers are growing.
The hippies of yesterday are the Joe Biden voters today. Neoliberalism destroyed the left in our country. Read theory, educate, volunteer, be the voice for the voiceless, see what your community needs and fill in a gap. Encourage others to do the same. Real politics are playing out right now- and it isn’t the Nov election
I live off grid in deep rural Kentucky, USA. We're close enough to Ft Knox that a lot of the people in our area are ex military, mostly officers, and they split 50/50 left right. Aside from that there are legitimately a few trans people in the area and a surprising number of gay people and nobody really seems to care. I honestly see more trump memorabilia when I go to the city, but by and large the people in my area are very much of the "you do you and we'll do us" crop. There are rumors of militias in nearby counties, but I would be truly outrageously surprised if they were more than overweight middle age country boys getting drunk in the woods.
Every part of rural Kentucky is not like this. Some parts are worse, but I don't really know of any that are better. The problem with the whole leftists moving to the country is that you are almost never sure what you're going to get, and living out here, you need to be able to rely on your neighbors in a much different way than you would in more urban areas. I would love for more like minded people to live around here, but I think that it may truly be too late for a migration to occur.
They don’t care now. When chips are down, when survival or even a quiet life is on the line a ton of people will change. History is full of people turning on each other for comfort or profit.
Hate to say it but even leftists/liberals with kids are highly likely to point out the undesirables hiding in their neighbor's attic to protect their own. When things really start getting scary the very people who are all piss and vinegar with their online rhetoric will throw on MAGA hats and crucifix necklaces to blend in as their neighbors are harassed out of town or hauled away to disappear forever camp deep in the woods.
Before even talking about running or fighting we should at least TRY for a narrow election victory.
Yup. Look at any other place this has happened? Heck read ‘The Man in the High Castle”! To survive most will. A small underground will exist and as MAGA has shown already they will even go after each other for the small scraps so they can be manipulated for self interest. But you are right
I think there is a lot of truth to what you say. I strongly believe I would be the person hiding people at my own risk. When I was young my parents organized and marched for civil rights. I remember the crap and hate we got from out neighbors. I will never forget that time, it is burned in my memory.
And my wife, while more nervous would be on board. Being Jewish, she understands hate and the value of helping people who are not like you.
I hope I live up to what I typed.
When it eventually crashes, before the ICJ trials, the Truth Commissions, the trials, the “I actually fought from the inside” books … a lot of them will do their best to delete their history or disappear.
If we could just all adopt a “I do me and you do you, but help each other when in need” mentality we’d be so much better off. The culture wars have brainwashed many but I do think most people would be just fine with that mentality. Unfortunately it only takes a violent minority to ruin everything.
“I do me and you do you" has no meaning when "doing me" involves stealing the land from others, enslaving others, and supporting a state that brutalizes people and locks them up unjustly.
That's never been America though. Since the dawn of the republic the point of government is to make the lives of people who are inconsequentially different that you a living hell. That, and make people with money more money. That's about it, so I'm not crying when the 250 year old "democracy" dies off for good, or at least changes the deed and title to something more honest. Like the Coordinated Discriminatory Oligarchies of White Jesus, Incorporated.
>We're close enough to Ft Knox that a lot of the people in our area are ex military, mostly officers, and they split 50/50 left right.
Split 50/50 ... rural Kentucky .... I read things like this and I think if denial is a river in Egypt, then you are about to be hit with the equivalent of the Aswan dam collapsing when this fantasy world of yours implodes.
Hi, are you from Kentucky? I've lived here almost my whole life except for an unfortunate few years in _shudder_ indiana. This is a much more diverse state than even most kentuckians give it credit for being. I won't argue about a lot, but part of the problem this country is _in to begin with_ is a deep mistrust and misunderstanding between the urban and the rural parts of the population that politicians on both sides are all to eager to capitalize on. Almost 40% of the state voted against Trump in 2020. Our democratic party governor is being discussed as a backup plan for Biden. My wife has klan fighters in her immediate family. My W4 retired from 24 years active duty neighbor has a trans son and several interracial couples live within a mile from where I'm typing this, far southwest of Louisville. There's a married lesbian couple up the hill from me. Are there bigots here? Yes. Are there assholes here? Yes. But I'll mention this as a god damn fact that I saw more "confederate" flags on my last trip through Wisconsin and Minnesota than I do in my neck of the woods. It shocked the fuck out of me too.
The sweeping generalizations or Aswan dams or whatever the fuck that you want to call it, on all sides of the political aisle, are exactly why we are here now. Divisions were harvested and amplified by D and R politicians to stoke fear and division, in the aftermath of the civil rights movement, between urban and rural. Like it or not, rural people have a LOT to be upset about and I'm not talking migrants or gay people or whatever and the Republicans aren't helping them _at all._ Seems to me that Dems could fix some shit out here and gain a lot of appreciation, but instead what the rural people here is another Clinton calling us deplorables. That is what they hear, regardless of how that comment was meant. It doesn't take a rocket scientist, just a 45, to capitalize on shit like that.
I appreciate this comment so much as a former academic lefty who now considers herself politically homeless. I'm an anthropology and history nerd, so I see the writing on the wall. So much so, I quit my cushy job in academia to move to the country with my family and make a go at the homestead life. We're total newbies, so we're learning a lot when it comes to a more self reliant lifestyle.
On that note, living in a rural area (west tennessee) for almost 2 years now has taught me a lot about the anger people feel out here. Sure, the bigotry exists, and it's misguided, yes, but when I zoom out and acknowledge the devastation that neoliberal and big ag policies have done to people who just want to make their living off the land and live a more peaceful existence, I totally get it. I can also understand the rural animosity toward city dwellers whom farmers bust ass to feed, and the city dwellers never acknowledge or even think about them as they shop for their groceries. I don't know. I see the nuances of the rural/city divide that I didn't see before.
I have literally no sympathy for rural folks who have voted for extreme corporate greed and called it fighting socialism. That’s what’s eating their farms and the rage they have for folks who are not to blame is a result of the propaganda they readily digest.
I hear you and that's a fair point, however, democrats are just as guilty as Republicans when it comes to serving corporate interests. Sadly, voters on both sides have been screwed by the corporate uniparty for decades now. There really is no difference between the two parties when it comes to substantive issues, just culture war bs.
Disagree substantially, but i agree dog walking folks through regulations being repealed so corporations can merge over and over again until oligarchy is difficult. Rural America has this chip on their shoulder that instead of blaming on greed they’ve largely blamed on other poor people (much poorer than them) in large cities.
You can thank Mcarthyism for the whole "fighting socialism" bit. I've argued to groups of old rural people hanging out at the gas station that their lives are socialist - sharing farm equipment so everyone doesn't have to have a combine, for instance, community support of people in need/hospitalized, etc. Actually talking to people out here, instead of looking down your nose at all of the stupid hicks, goes far.
Rural America’s connection with the rest of the country has slowly contracted in the years since World War Two. Swathes of rural America left their places of birth for employment opportunities or military service and did not return. Over the following decades, many of the best and brightest rural children left as well, with the rate increasing in the years following the easy availability of student academic loans. The last four generations of American children were told that a traditional four year college track was the only key to having a secure future, and by necessity, many of the jobs these graduates filled were not available in rural America. As there is a correlation between educational achievement and political affiliation, this diaspora has contributed to the polarization of the urban rural divide in the United States.
Well paying jobs used to exist in rural America that didn't require a college education and they left in the 80s/90s. Lots of that was on NAFTA - although its origins predate Clinton, rural people remember Clinton signing it. Jobs flee, the smartest children flee, and rural people watch their communities dry up and fill with opiates as the 90s ended. I have heard countless urban people say some variation of "if it is so bad out in the country, why don't they move?" From land that their family may have owned for generations (I live on land that has been in my wife's extended family for almost 200 years) that is in most cases their only source of generational wealth? Urban people frequently move, or at least moving has been something that wasn't bad. Out here loosing the family farm, or the house you grew up in, or whatever is a fn catastrophe. It's not just the land, it's the history of your family on the land for generations. People don't get attached to apartments, but you sure as fuck get attached to your land.
People out here have watched their communities wither and die and listen to urban people lump them all in as deplorables and racists and hicks and whathaveyou, and then you are surprised when they don't want to vote for policies that by and large help urban people - while their roads and bridges are failing, while their schools are shutting down, while their jobs and everything that they've worked for are threatened. I am an atheist but I can understand why these people cling to things like the church, as it's often the only social gathering or community that is left in many places. Republicans have managed to harness these fears and capitalize on these woes and use them to drive conservative policies that in most cases simply do not benefit rural people. As a Kentuckian, what the fuck has McConnell ever done for us?
I am NOT saying that all rural people are blameless victims or whatever. I am saying that the situation is much more complex than you are making it out to be.
I’m a political analyst at times, and I write a lot about rural Texas politics and rural politics in general.
A lot of the rural anger is either misunderstood or misplaced. Most really has to do with economic disenfranchisement that’s been led jointly by both parties - the GOP just has better populist rhetoric.
It’s not about politics or religion. It’s about people’s need to feed their families, find work that pays fairly, and live where and how they’d like to.
It should come as no surprise then that rural voters don’t resonate with social Justice issues - who cares who gets married if people can’t find jobs? - heavy handed, unworkable environmental policy (that did more much damage to rural economies and infrastructure as anything the GOP ever did), or antitrust and tax issues. Most are too poor to really be affected by things like estate taxes and cap gains - but taxes read as taxes, and were a largely anti-authoritarian, “no taxation without representation” people.
Partially because the goal of taxes - to fund social services - never seem to make it outside of the suburbs, if it’s not the USDA implementing it. And the democrats have weaponized the farm bill for its last two rounds.
And you’re right - rural culture, by necessity of our job availability, is hardworking, blue-collar culture. People who happily say “we work for a living.” And point at people sitting at a desk at all day in the AC and say that they don’t. I’ve worked both kinds of jobs. And even with what I do now - I still have a lot of animosity for people who, frankly, don’t do productive work. I’ve served as a business consultant and I’m 100% the axeman that middle management checks under their bed for at night. I come in, they go.
But it’s all the same shit that got trump elected in rural areas and the rust belt - people disenfranchised economically looking for someone to blame who isn’t, for once, a politician - and someone actually listening to those complaints and at least promising to do *something* with it. Which neither party has really done since LBJ broke the south.
Same as rural voters - largely seen by urbanites as racist - resonated with Obama’s rhetoric of change and opportunity. And haven’t with Biden’s promises of justice and environmental reforms.
It’s not rocket science. It’s all about economics. But our culture as a whole tends to be very insular and “fuck you, I got mine” as urban individualism goes. Most of rural America still doesn’t embrace that. We’re very mutual aid oriented, willing to give help and hands up - our big disagreements are on how do that - partially because we have been repeatedly burned by state and federal promises for rain that never comes.
Most aid goes to urban areas. It’s been that way for years. So it’s small wonder why rural areas don’t get good and sauced up about promises for social services and tax breaks and aid programs. Most aid for us comes from USDA, the state extension agencies, and bits and pieces of HUD (most funded by USDA or its state equivalents).
The Dems, riding 90s New Dem ideals, wonder why they can’t attract rural voters. But don’t pitch policy planks anyone in rural areas really cares about. And it’s long past the point that rural voters ask for help, and the response is “we need more FMLA time for white collar workers,” or “we should let gay people get married,” and whether we agree or not - it just reads as insulting.
“We’d like better infrastructure, better support for small business, antitrust action against the big factory farms, and better farm subsidies”
“Ok but how about new environmental regulations for wetlands protection instead? That’s rural, right?”
And while plenty of us care about it - I’m a lefty conservation reporter by day myself - it’s a relative slap in the face by a party that’s faced dwindling rural support since Carter.
Because we’re not stupid. We see that all the “opportunity” grants are going to urban development. That’s the “why” of the knee jerk hatred of rural voters to “urbanism.” Not the conspiracy theories. Worrying that this year - it won’t rain. And no help will come for us. But it’ll come for the banks. It’ll come for retail. It’ll come for tech. It’ll come for B2B sales. It’ll come for AI and EVs.
But the Dems have very clearly said, repeatedly, “fuck y’all.”
and that’s not lost on rural voters. Whether we sit left or right in the high halls of government.
And academias best answer of late has been “white rural rage,” which is about how religion made us all this way.
Hate to break to y’all but rural churches aren’t churches. Not really. They’re as much community centers and social service orgs as anything else - and most of even our religious are just Sunday Christians who get as tired of the politicizing and polemicizing from the pulpit as anything else.
Or it’s racism. And perhaps it is - but the GOP just capitalized on that anxiety and gave rural people non-WASP, non-straight, non-GAB people to blame for it all, because they’re the people the democrats have an existential need to pander to - because of the dwindling support for New Democrat policy (and you can see this in the near-miss of Sanders that caused the DNC to close ranks and crack down on intra-party dissent).
It’s all about business. It’s all cash-money economics and pork barrel politics. Take all the rage and fear out of it, and it makes a hell of a lot more sense.
And rural politics is, as it’s always been, about whether or not a crop yields this year, whether another farmer is putting a gun to their head about it, or if someone’s livestock will survive the winter. If contractors are building this year. If the local factory will close this year - after threatening the last three. If the only jobs left pay minimum wage and groceries and gas keep inflating.
And it’s hard for people to care about softer issues when that’s the reality that most still live in rural America.
Because of years worth of political neglect. Trump just capitalized on that to sell his campaign. And it worked - despite what even the GOP felt.
And America is the beating heart of world trade and commerce atm... it it falls to the facists, it'll hurt or outright starve any places that aren't also like it. It'll be a dark day for the world in a way that I don't know we have ever seen.. we haven't seen a facist nation so powerful with nuclear weapons that have no counter force to match it...
People talk about moving to Canada or something if Trump gets back in. Believe me, if he gets back in, we’re going to want to be in the Congo or New Guinea or something. He’ll make life worse not just here but practically everywhere. We’re probably going to want to be pretty remote. But for now we should fight like hell.
we’re gonna get pierre polievve (or however tf his name is spelt ) as our next prime minister. he’s pretty bad as well . same politics as trump just hidden behind a fancy calm boy aesthetic
Canada seems a bit more institutionally secure against Trumpish politics — starting from a more progressive position as well (including a higher percentage of college educated people, higher tolerance for LGB and T people, etc).
Canada is my plan if things go south here.
in like three of our provinces a teacher can get arrested if they don’t immediately inform the parents of a kids pronoun change :/ i know it’s a lottt worse in the states but it’s not great here. alberta and saskatchewan are pretty conservative and entrenched in those values , not a lot of room
for change. also the liberals have managed to turn everyone against them, and the npd has completely dropped the ball with any type of left populism. as fucked as the gov was with covid, the trucker movement funnelled all the crunchy granolas and anti gov rural people into a fascist pipeline. our culture isn’t as brutal and in your face as yours is so a lot of stuff flies under the radar, but the same general themes are there. by all means please come if your country becomes fascist and we have protections you don’t, but just be willing to join the struggle here when you get here because all of us depend upon it.
No way am I sitting on the sidelines (here or in Canada). Even though I vibe better with Canada then the US (long considered moving there even before 2016 happened), the US is my home country and the only reason I’d leave is if it is no longer safe for my family here.
Congo and New Guinea are the opposite of where you would want to be. If you wanted to go the isolated in a tropical rainforest route, places like Bolivia/Colombia/Peru/Ecuador (or even Brazil now with Lula) or Costa Rica or Vietnam or Laos. DRC and PNG are extremely dangerous, unwelcoming, and immeasurably unstable.
I’m not actually recommending their political systems or immigrating there. I chose them because of their significant rural areas which could remain fairly unscathed if, say, Trump pushes Putin into WW3
FYI, I think Germany has an expedited citizenship application process for those whose family fled Germany because of the Nazis. Its been a few years since I looked into it, as I was researching not for myself but for my mother, so I'm not super sure, but I think they wave the language requirements for these cases.
I moved to Canada after J6. We fled. For anyone reading, 52 is the realistic age limit to come here. Takes 2-3 years to get PR. If you're interested, start now, as I expect them to close the border at some point in 2025.
That said, while Canada is doing better, a lot of shit here is very bad. Also, frankly, I don't know a single country that isn't doing terrible for anyone in the bottom 90%
I heard it’s really hard getting work up there if you’re not a Canadian citizen or not married to own. Is it feasible to do this if you have a family with kids?
We came up with 2 kids. One of our kids is queer. They can be open and safe here. We have yet to regret our decision. It gets complicated, too. Provinces have a say in Immigration.
The easiest ways to get here without a cirizen spouse as an American is to sign up for a Masters/PhD program, sign up for a bachelor's degree if you don't already have one and some plausible Canadian connection, pay out of pocket for a trade at a community College, have an in demand career, or train in an in demand career (trades, truck drivers, nurses, etc.).
The economy is shite here, and it's hard to get jobs. I won't lie.
A lot depends on your specific circumstances. I'm happy to talk to you in PMs and provide more targeted resources.
For now: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship.html
Idk if you would know this or not, but are there pipelines for creative freelancers to come there? I know some countries do digital nomad visas, but I've never heard of it for there.
They're pushing so hard because they know if they lose, they'll lose it all. The GOP will be bankrupt after this election (including a large number of the state parties), and by '28 there won't be enough boomers left to counteract millennials and zoomers, so if they don't get it now, they know they're done for.
If you look into global news, authoritarianism is on the rise **globally**. This is our last stand. We either vote like our lives depend on it, or we sentence future generations to take the last steps into a thousand years of darkness.
So, I think this is where "where you live" is going to do a lot of heavy lifting.
If you live in a solidly blue/liberal state like California, Minnesota, or Massachusetts, and in a metro area, you're probably not going to encounter much of anything. Outside of those places, in red counties of blue states you'll probably also be fine but would probably deal with harassment. Already do.
If you live in a red state, especially a southern one, you should already be getting out or training for a fight.
Hasn’t Trump already been talking about deploying the military to blue cities to deal with “out of control crime?” I think he is planning on coming for everyone, but it will start in red states. In fact they are already talking about arresting women in Texas who leave for abortions so they are getting the public ready for the idea of tracking people out of state like they did with the Fugitive Slave Laws.
I’ve been hearing phrases like “such and such an action by Trump will trigger a constitutional crisis” since 2015. You know what happens? Each time, he does the thing, the crisis comes, and suddenly, it’s not referred to as a crisis any more, and we just move along.
It reminds me of how genocide is handled. Much ado about the coming horror; then, the bloodbath arrives; after that, nothing is done about it.
Goebbels was right: if you relentlessly repeat the lies, they become truth. It’s also true that you can utterly destroy and pervert society if you are patient and creep into power. There are no limits to what you can do. It’s the ultimate fantasy and the GOP is living it. They figured out how to game the system.
I live in a big blue city now and this is exactly what Im worried about. He's going to have the local cops do his mass deportations, and he's already experimented with squads of DHS snatching people off the street (it happened in Portland in 2020). I think it would be hard to do what Stephen Miller proposed (having red state national guards march into blue states) but I'm thinking he'll feel emboldened enough to try it.
Trump talks about a lot of things. Trump talked of buying Greenland. Trump talked of building a wall and making mexico pay for it. None of those things happened.
We also lost Roe V Wade, a massive number of consumer and labor relations, and practice runs of the suspension of Constitutional Rights within 100 miles of a border/ port and the use of BORTAC and other paramilitary federal police units to quell unresf
Definitely agree with this, especially considering Mother Nature is really gonna start kicking our collective ass for how we've been treating her. I've been thinking a lot about how the next level of weather disasters happening all over this country is going to affect the rising fascism/authoritarianism.
I happen to live in a rural part of the PNW, part of the "I deal with some harassment but I'm fine" camp. But since the west coast is so blue, if Trump wins there will be a lot of talk of secession. Normally I'd say there's no chance it would work, but you add in the stress of continued heat waves, droughts, and wildfires and a federal government completely unable to respond to those real stresses...? I feel very uncertain about what our future holds.
But to answer the question, I'm choosing to fight. This one of the better places to be in our new climate changed world and still a strong blue state. But also, this is my home. I was born here, I've lived here all my life. (I also recently found out that I have some Native ancestry on my Mom's side.) I will protect my home and my community from whatever comes at us, fire or fascists.
> Definitely agree with this, especially considering Mother Nature is really gonna start kicking our collective ass for how we've been treating her.
The even more f'd up bit is, as long as humans burn millions of tons of FF's each day, it really doesn't matter if we're organized as a democracy, or a socdem, or into something centrally planned, it doesn't even matter if we turn into a nutjob theocracy or go full fascist.
Same outcome.
edit; matter as in, change global outcomes. it will matter a great deal to a great many individuals.
Great, I forgot how awesome it was to have a President that threatened no federal emergency after California’s record fire seasons before the pandemic… that’ll be cool.. fml
A second Trump Administration will decimate NY and CA even if it craters the American economy. He’ll squeeze companies to give him money and public praise and force them to hand over your data. In Cuba they have CDS, neighbourhood watch. He’ll set them up to go after liberals, moderate, gays, etc. this will destroy the economy and he won’t care.
But it will take a few years to hit his core base, by then it will be too late.
It’s not him, it’s the people who stand behind him. The Steven Millers, Bannon, Nick Fuentes. Trump is being used by them and as long as his ass is kissed and gets public adoration (and money) he don’t care. Look how North Korea and China have him the public show and played him.
I once said that multinationals could leave. I got told no but.. once the American economy tanks, once salaries start coming down, credit cards start charging huge rates and the American consumer is no longer #1 why stay?
He isn't going to implement anything. He'll be playing golf. They'll give him a piece of paper and say "sign this" and then they'll implement it for him.
> The dipshit couldn't even book the right four seasons.
I'm no Trump fan, but they booked the place they meant to book. I forget exactly why they decided to hold it there, but I looked into it a few months ago when I remembered how funny it was.
They told Trump and he misunderstood and later clarified on Twitter. The whole thing was still a dumpster fire because it's Trump.
You need to read r/Defeat_Project_2025 or watch the latest episodes of John Oliver. This time around, a Trump administration will be much more organized and will decimate our system of government.
The very thin silver lining to the right's fanatical devotion to "state's rights" has me grateful that I live in California, but I don't see that protection lasting long again a Trump dictatorship since they're only using it to prop up their tenacious hold on power.
they dont actually believe in states rights. its just an easy argument against having to enforce peoples rights without having to acknowledge thats what theyre against. if they could pass a federal ban on abortion, gay marriage, etc they would not hesitate.
The fanatical devotion to state's rights goes only as far as uses of federal power they dislike. They'll be perfectly fine enforcing a national abortion ban or gun control ban or contraception ban.
This is very shortsighted. Look at project 2025 they're going to roll the military out. Trump promised to deport millions of people it won't take long for Stephen Miller to realize camps worm better than deportation. I don't think this is hyperbolic. Even tho Trump is an idiot he surrounded himself with true monsters. No where will be safe.
I hope they start with the slaughter house employees. Billy Bob Bubba will be signing a different tune when there is no more cheap cuts of meat at his Walmart.
Forget being in the South, Wisconsin, rural Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and Pennsylvania are all Northern States and the Dakotas and Iowa are all just as bad as the South right now.
I live in one of those solidly blue/liberal states and, back in 2020, I began the process to get citizenship by descent.
Now I have a passport to an EU country and, should I feel the need, that will get me and my wife out of the US.
Things are safe here for now, but I do feel better much knowing I have a rock solid escape route.
[I wrote a guide to help people get started exploring their eligibility for citizenship by descent.](https://www.reddit.com/r/USAexit/comments/17m2ua0/shufflebuzzs_guide_to_citizenship_by_descent/)
My family lives in Cali and we own our home (almost) so I feel pretty secure for now. Our extended family in red states are gonna be miserable, but they've been going with the flow for a long time now. Maybe if they keep their heads down it won't be too bad.
The 2nd reTrumplican admin will be a human disaster of epic proportions, but I don't see any signs that Uh'mericans are coming to their senses, *sooo*... we're fucked, I guess?
Canada isn’t it, either, just in case people are wondering. Our next gov is gonna be stupid and fascist af. Conservatism and fake populism is VERY popular, sadly.
I'm... in many of the buckets you just named. I'm scared as hell.
I'm entirely reliant on my allies to carry this. Given past performance, that is not encouraging, given the last two elections.
Here's what I know:
* 1/3 of this country has been trained to hate me and wants me dead. These voted Republican.
* 1/3 of this country is indifferent to the above outcome. These did not vote or voted 3rd party.
* 1/3 of this country generally considers my death "not ideal", and would like to have it not happen. They voted Democrat.
These aren't great odds.
I really would prefer to not die.
Please?
The Democrats were never going to save you from fascism, so nothing has really changed today vs. yesterday.
I'm going to try to take things as they come, make what small improvements to my situation as I can make, and try not to drive myself nuts with hypotheticals.
Yeah, the fantasy isn't that things are going to be fine, it's that there's someplace you're going to go or someone you can vote for to escape from what's coming.
This is one reason I’m now living on Mindanao in the Philippines. I married a Filipina, I live with her family here, she has two children and we have one on the way. I am extremely concerned with the direction the US is going and fled.
Fuck all that. As an old, white dude, I will stand in front of the people who are being target, and I will be loud and proud. My parents, who marched for civil rights would expect no less from me.
First, I want to thank you for posting this, and emphasize it's not an overreaction. I believe there are a lot of stupid and downright mean people in this country, and when combined with the 50% who don't vote, it's a really dangerous time. If Orange Mussolini comes to power, I will insist that my gay son gets out of this neon Christo-Fascist hell hole. But I will stay and resist as much as I can. Too old to run and have two big dogs that I love, and who would not survive the quarantine European countries make dogs go through.
With all that said, the Thursday night debate is not a death blow to democracy. Most Americans did not watch it. And those that did, have not switched from Biden to Trump. Biden folks like myself may be disappointed and worried, but we did not say to ourselves, "oh gosh, Biden is old and feeble, I better vote for Orange Mussolini". And believe it or not so called "Independent voters" did not make that leap either. Those of us who care about things tend to get locked in the 24/7 news box. Unfortunately, in the US where everything is about money, the news media is no different. If it helps ratings the media will go for all the drama and salaciousness they can generate. That includes MSNBC who minutes after the debate started talking about dumping Biden as the Democratic nominee. You could write a book on how that would be almost impossible, unless Biden himself was down for the plan. Regardless, MSNBC is happy to play up the drama, even at the risk of our democracy. (And keep in mind, that's supposed to be the one remaining progressive network.)
It might help Biden’s chances. Now we are talking about whether to allow the elderly to continue working for a few years past when they get old cranky or senile. Most of us are content to put up with a few flaws. We know we benefit by learning from a lifetime of experience. A huge block of voters are themselves very old.
Discussing genocide sounds a lot worse. Arresting kids and locking them in border camps. Selling drilling leases on public lands. New gas pipelines for *export*. Minimum wage. Student debt. Debt. Inflation, healthcare cost, health, globalization, wealth gaps…
Lets talk about whether people should be forced out of their jobs because of ageism. What happens if voters actually read or watch what a candidate says while asking themselves “is this a demented old buffoon”. If stupidity is the main factor that Americans look for when they try to make a decision then Donald Trump has no chance of winning an election.
Fight.
Amerikkka is a nuclear armed superpower. Fascist states implode. If Hitler had the bomb he woulda set it off before shooting himself. Trump will have a world ending arsenal.
There’s no where to hide when a fascist USA self destructs. We’re all in this together, and we need to fight and win, now.
Can we collectively find a decent sized piece of land and start a more or less self sufficient community. I’ve got building skills and lived rural most of my life in the Midwest so I’ve got some survival skills while we get off the ground. We would needs some herbalists and doctors. Like let’s all go to ground together to try and survive this shit. I’ve got a general understanding of how to build a generator from scrap so it wouldn’t be totally Stone Age. Idk what do people think of that. Maybe somewhere north Midwest or Pacific Northwest, think places that get rainfall and be easier to self sustain
I think about stuff like that a lot. The main problem is that the fascists would relentlessly attack any "free" community if it settled on a piece of land that was of any potential value to them. The Radical Right doesn't *manage* resources, it *steals and exploits* resources. T'was ever thus.
I agree with you however here’s a counterpoint, how long do we live in fear of what the radical right may do when our lives may be at risk? When do we stand up for our right to live and defend what we have? When would it end? Do we just lay down and die cause that doesn’t sound great to me. And look I’m generally a pretty diplomatic guy, I don’t like violence, but I’ve come to terms with the reality that sometime in the not so distant future I might have to fight for what I believe in.
I have talked quite a bit about trying to set up something like that up here in Alaska.
That being said, the sheer isolation would be both a blessing and a curse.
Your grandfather was one if the smart ones. The only reaso. Hitler was able to massacre so many people is because *they stayed there for it.*
I've been telling people for a few years now to stop participating in society and to get somewhere to hide while the collapse of civilization plays out.
>My inner hippie says it's time to go to ground. Find a remote place to live out my days that doesn't have internet or cell service. Go on a multi year media fast, only read quarterly publications and books. No television. No radio. Live as a political anchorite. Avoid town as much as possible
This is 100% correct. What we are about to see is the complete and total collapse of global civilization... but while we are waiting for the climate to bake us alive, or for the nuclear weapons to air fry us, we will have to deal with the early effects. And much of that is going to be authoritarian dystopia.
Better to go live in a hidden cave on some mountain, stocked with everything you need for the next 20 years, rather than stay out in the urban sprawls and experience being "rounded up" in some of the first waves.
To be extremely blunt, I am a 48 year old white male. I can fake it for a while if I have to, and survive. If you don't have that capability... you need to seriously start trying to secure an alternative.
And that means to GTFO while you can.
You can hide, but the other guy has a say in whether that works or not. Sure helps to know how to fight if hide turns into found.
Other options? I’m not the first target for bad actors on the right, but my friends and family are. If I end up going down with them, that’s just how it’s gonna shake out. Sure as hell can’t run or back down with a good conscience while people are out to make my loved ones not exist.
Finally - I was born in this country and, through all its flaws and its past, it’s still my home. I’ll die before someone takes that away from me and mine.
Your racism and bias make you part of the problem. You can't see out the boxes you put yourself in to feel different. We are all fertilizer to the machine. You think you can identify your enemies by skin, or age, or sex, or which color of gang they bow to for salvation. We are just numbers on a spreadsheet. A variable in an equation that your real enemies are utilizing every resource they have, which is almost all of them, to solve. Every time you devide yourself is a victory for them. There is no running, and soon there will be nowhere left to hide.
This community just popped up on my feed - I’m staying and fighting if necessary, until it gets really horrible. I’m trans and live in NC. If they outlaw HRT and somehow make it impossible to get it DIY, then I’ll consider leaving. If they outright criminalize us, then I’ll consider leaving. Do what you need to; I’m very lucky to be able to leave at a moment’s notice if I have to. At the same time, if we all preemptively flee, then who will be left to stand up to them? Not that most people can realistically flee anyway. Idk, maybe it’s wishful thinking but I’m holding on to hope that this is not inevitable. And we’re stronger together and all that, right?
Also in NC with an adult trans child. I'm Cherokee. I'm staying this is my goddamned country. I'll stay and fight, but I may ship her out if at all possible.
If you learn German, chances are actually pretty decent you can be allowed in. Germany is one of the most open places in Europe to immigrants. If people learn the language, follow the rules, and fit in decently well, they tend to be fairly happy to have 'em. The financial support could be a concern.
I escaped Texas and went West in 2016. I write an online graphic novel parallel to current events and hope I can finish it before something happens to me, and that's about the only reason I stick around.
I've found some satisfaction in the fact that people here are still into mutual aid, so I contribute where I can.
I wont hide. “Death before dishonor.” I am not running. My fear is that i never did enough.
I visited Neuengamme 24 years ago. A large black and white photo stands out in my memory. Both the guards standing over the pit and the prisoners working in the pit look like the local population of lower Saxony. The guards faces looked a bit pork fed and, of course, SS uniforms stand out. The prisoner’s faces had the sunken gaunt look of people being worked to death.
To me it was a relief to see (both in the photograph and the detailed accounts) that political dissidents were the vast majority of the camp’s victims during the early years of operation. It suggests that ethnic and cultural guilt does not have to be coded into your genes. I can choose to believe i will be among the first that the fascists will want to kill. I can do think to make that the reality.
I talk to maggots. Even work with some. I doubt they can look me in the eye and kill me. Though, like most Americans, they can be involved in many atrocities out of sight. I worry about the minorities. DACA and transgendered might suffer a lot of indignities. Berks detention center was near where i live. It took a long time to shut down. The protests there were quite uplifting. A few times the detainees came out and waved. It was bad that it existed but it certainly was not Neuegamme.
When Trump gets elected civil disobedience will probably be necessary. Getting locked up will suck. It will also cost a fortune in lost work time. If you are afraid of that just adopt the Mormon dress code and work for the shitty wages. They might be coming for the active activists. Very likely that maggots will just ignore the active activists too. Trump will want the extreme left to get lots of public exposure so that he can rile up his base.
I inherited German citizenship. I just have to go to the consulate with my birth certificate and my mother’s. I have considered working in Europe just because Europe is really nice. However i am not going to run there. That would make me become one of the enabling bystanders.
Get out while the getting is good. If orange one comes back, expect your passport to be pulled. If you hide, they will find you; if you fight, they will jail you (or go after your nearest and dearest). Never underestimate evil.
Umm, have you been paying attention to what is happening to politics in Germany lately?? Whew. Fascism is taking over Europe as well. It’s scary times.
Hide in the foothills. Starlink doesn't take much solar with the good lifepo4 cells from China. Make a fire, fire up a fatty, turn up the music, and relax. We're seeing world history play out.
Oh god, there's Monday's decisions??! This corrupt court is only as legitimate as we let it be. We can riot in the streets until they GTFO. No one elected them and they're openly accepting bribes!!
My grandfather helped helped start the Russian Revolution, and a few years later when he saw who was going to be running the show he and his brothers got out of Russia. I could see that happening here.
Anyone who really studies history knows that dictators and authoritarian's don't come into power when everyone is happy. I told my friend that January 6th was really the Beer Hall Putsch. And if they didn't really enforce the law to the letter after that it would just embolden people for the next time. And that was before you had people in political power calling criminals hostages and all that B.S.
If Trump loses, then all bets are off. His cohorts have spent the last 4 years whipping people up into a frenzy and they didn't do it because they were bored. I can easily see him letting them loose and then saying that the only way that he will call them off is if they declare him the winner.
buy a gun while you still can, and update your passport and make sure you have it with you at all times. keep your head down and try to remove any public evidence of leftist activism online before it gets noticed. and remember the election hasn't happened yet, there is still a shred of hope that people will prefer an incompetent old man to a malevolent one, but don't plan for that. be ready to flee and arm yourself incase you cannot.
Certainly start diversifying if possible get dual citizenship and start working in an exit plan. If rule of law goes away then who knows where we are headed.
Lot of good points in here but I haven’t seen this yet. I don’t think Germany is a good safe haven to consider. They really never solved the central issue that lead to the Nazis and they are doing their own slide to a fascism, albeit a slightly different flavor.
As a queer person born with a genetic neuromuscular condition where the only verifiable treatment is stem cells, I was the gay liberal vampire FOX warned about before they ever settled on the moniker. At six years old, I learned about my condition and genetics, and ask my parents questions that introduced me to the concept of eugenicism. Ever since I learned that eugenics was birthed here in the PNW I’ve lived my life on eggshells, because evidence has shown that WW2 did nothing about the domestic fascists
First, focus on getting young women in swing states to vote. They are a Biden landslide waiting.
Second, the only reason there is any possibility of Trump winning is the electoral college. His voters are not a majority. Further the base, those who really favor the oppression proposed by the 2025 plan, are even fewer and not going to show up in the streets should push come to shove.
There’s more but you all too busy panicking to take more in.
The problem is each one of those things takes money. Fight? You need weapons. Flight? You know how hard it is for people without direct ties to a country to move there? I've looked into moving to the UK or New Zealand and as a middle class disabled person it isn't really feasible. Hide? Buying a place in a rural location with likely minimal job prospects also isn't possible for most people.
The least expensive thing to do is fight. I've done a ton of research into firearms over the past couple of months and I'm buying a gun as soon as I'm able to afford it. Depending on your state you might even have access to an AR-15, which is easily the most useful gun to have if you're really scared about a democratic crisis imo. I've been staunchly anti-gun (particularly anti-civilians owning weapons of war) but I've talked to my therapist a lot and I've made the decision to buy one. I'm in PA so buying one is upsettingly easy and you can get a fully functional one with a few useful accessories for less than a thousand dollars. I'm really hoping I never have to use it for more than target practice but here we are.
Fight. Maybe not the right decision for everyone but I refuse to deny my own responsibility to be part of the solution. I can't stand by and I certainly can't run. I'd rather die than live knowing there was something I could have done but didn't. I'm not trying to act like a savior, just a willing grunt in the pursuit of equity and justice and we seriously need to organize; we're running out of time.
Please DM if you are willing to share any info on how I/we can do this
I’ll stay and fight. Like another said, “death before dishonor”. Since 2016 I’ve felt a churning in my gut so I’ve been preparing for this for a long time. Besides firearms, I have taken up telepresence and robotics, as I figured that firearms alone may not be enough. I’ll stay to defend my friends, family and neighbors using the skills and resources I have. No fascist for miles will escape my sight.
Carve out a space for yourself in the new world. The circle of Bible belt evangelicals trying to implement Project 2025 do not understand modern society well enough to consolidate totalitarian control. Like they aren't going to be able to control TikTok generation no matter how hard they try. I think there's going to be a surface level of repression with people turning a blind eye to each others' "misbehavior" under the surface. Like with homosexuality in big cities pre-stonewall or with samizdat being circulated within the USSR.
Personally I think the recent episode on Caribbean anti slavery tactics was very instructional right now.
Non compliance (in this case definitely includes voting )
Confrontation
And the one I really see leftists missing now the last one I can never quite make out in the audio so Im going to call proliferation until someone corrects me. (Cunninghams law amiright?)
Gotta organize, build networks of mutual support and a strong culture of self sufficiency ( fellow homesteaders and peppers I see you) and I think a big one people are missing is give people hope.
We've spent decades with nothing but doom on the horizon even the kids I know doing really have any hope for a future. Even they see the writing on the wall. We need solid plans for what comes after such an inevitable destruction as much as to actually survive it.
It's not enough to fight to live people need to fight for something better than that.
You seem to be wildly underestimating how hard it is to emigrate.
There are 2 options:
1 - fight until they come for you
2 - hide until they come for you
There is no fleeing. It is a fantasy
VOTE!!! We need to vote blue and start thinking that SCOTUS is full out MAGAt. That is why we must get a Dem president. The next one will appoint 2 justices. We will be completely Russia if Trump wins
Why did you mention Grants Pass? What is going on in Grants Pass? GP is a tiny town in rural southern Oregon. What does that have to do with the rise of fascism? I’m surprised to even see GP mentioned in an unrelated thread, it’s a pretty unknown town. Is something going on that I don’t know about in Grants Pass?
The Supreme Court ruled today that grants pass can make homelessness illegal, which basically means that states and municipalities can make laws that criminalize the condition of being homeless all across the country.
After living with my parents in a rural environment for a few decades I see no safety there unless you are living amongst like minded folk. I much prefer the mostly camouflaged urban life style. No bumper stickers, no different flags, absolutely no political signs. I started flying the Stars and Stripes every day, illuminated at night, after uncle joe got elected . Before that I only flew it on national holidays, I fly multiple state university and sports team flags appropriately .
Community is what will save us, not isolation. Fascism and corporatism thrives on the death of community and the atomization of individuals. Those communities... might want to be armed, though.
I certainly recommend trans Americans, hell, probably LGBTQ in general, all get armed and trained to use those arms. Trump's online platform already promises to erase trans people from the country, you will be forced into the gender that right wing religion decides. This, and other hitlerific pledges abound on Trump's campaign pages.
Anyone who thinks liberals aren’t armed is silly. It will be absolute pandemonium if a true civil conflict breaks out here
Even if you are a liberal that's unarmed find your local ally anarchist and they'll arm you. I'm no liberal but in a situation like this we are allies.
Chances are if they aren't armed, they *definitely* know someone who does.
It’s the joint idea that the left is unarmed and doesn’t exist in rural areas for me. We do. And we are. We’re just quiet about it and don’t go around strapped up like the Gravy Seals: Meal Team 6. Ironically, we tend to also be more community oriented and into shit like homesteading. Let it come and I guarantee you’d have Resistance outposts complete with community potlucks before you know it.
Im an armed veteran and a trans man living in alaska. Im sacred, but I’m ready to defend myself, my family and this country again.
I'm a small woman, but I did 6 years active duty in the USMC. I can use most small to large firearms, can perform basic helicopter operations, and I'm ok at cqc. I'm also gay as cheese. Let them come, I've not had a decent fight in a decade.
Exactly man. Me and my community preppers and homesteaders know what’s up. Wouldn’t be surprised if we’d end up the better fed organization, and that can be just as important as anything else. Starving people don’t fight so good
You know y’all preppers (the general y’all, I don’t know about you personally) get a bad rap. It’s just taking root cellars to a whole new level, and I’m here for it.
Being brutally honest armed liberals aren’t a threat to fascism. Liberals on the whole bend the knee as soon as the fascists take state power. We’ll see what happens, but I wouldn’t hold my breath for any functional armed resistance from libs. Queer, trans, or otherwise marginalized folks who can safely own guns should ABSOLUTELY be looking at getting armed and trained. The liberal establishment is unlikely to protect any of us against fascism. It never has before.
Agreed, the disarming of the American left has been a concerted effort by those in power since the at least the 50s but likely earlier Armed leftist groups are what gave us strong unions in the robber baron era. Now as we enter the gilded age part deux many on the american left have been convinced that gun ownership is taboo leaving only the right, the people ready and willing to dive into fascism, armed. Its a recipe for our communities to be picked apart with little to no resistance. Free Leonard Peltier Free Mumia
That's a fallacy; the left might lean toward anti-firearm but there are folks on the left who exercise their 2A rights.
Most of the political left tends to be in favor of smart gun control and just gets painted as wanting to take everyone’s guns away.
The communities that I'm part of are hippies. First and second wave. Unarmed almost universally. But tight af.
Buy copies of "It can't happen here" and "Gun curious" and hand them out to your friends. Have tough conversations. A cowardly intelligentsia, that self isolates and withers in the shadow of authoritarianism, does not help humanity. Liberals and progressives have forgotten that abstract systems are not in and of themselves power, only the projections of physical power that underpins them. A reclamation of patriotism by the thinking persons of society, and the value of strength in the physical world and in community is crucial. It is better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war. The founders did not create the 2nd for fetishism or for one ideological group to have a monopoly. It is a backstop at the base of the hierarchy of needs. Things are likely not as bad as we fear, but we must be prepared if they get that way.
Also: This Nonviolent Stuf’ll Get You Killed. Great book, Robert Evans recommended. I also agree that the best prep you can do is, in no particular order, community, fitness, knowledge. The second best prep is clairvoyance, and the third best is buying guns and ammo when they are cheap and relying on the first best preps to know how to store and train. ETA: I just gotta add this quote that I have no idea about its origin, but it goes something like : “a person unable to do violence isn’t peaceful, they are harmless”
Good advice, thank you!
> Unarmed almost universally. This probably needs to change. As they say, you can be 99% peace and love and light, but you gotta have that 1% that's "go fuck yourself," just in case of fascists.
Y’all should start training with firearms and doing target practice. Better to be prepared and not need it then to need it and not be prepared
It's never too late to start firearms training. I'm so far left I got my guns back. I and a number of my friends are buying weapons and learning to use them. We don't make it part of our identity, but we recognize them as useful tools.
My 70 something aunt and cousin are starting pistol and long gun training now. Proud of them.
[удалено]
They might be loot drops for you, But vice versa is also true... If they come for you, don't let 'em kill ya, And if they do, go full-on guerrilla!! (I don't know why that came out in rhyme, My head's in a weird place during this strange time...)
I am an unarmed hippie. I recently started looking into arming myself. More importantly though, I left everything I had behind and moved to a better state to try and buy land to house a community of people with somewhat similar mindsets. I don’t have the land or the people yet, but this is what feels right and I’ve been working towards it for several years at this point. I think community is what will eventually save humanity, but it is also what will make the next years tolerable. I’m just saying that we do exist and our numbers are growing.
The hippies of yesterday are the Joe Biden voters today. Neoliberalism destroyed the left in our country. Read theory, educate, volunteer, be the voice for the voiceless, see what your community needs and fill in a gap. Encourage others to do the same. Real politics are playing out right now- and it isn’t the Nov election
>First and second wave [hippies] So like 98% white children of privilege...maybe it's time they did something about the rest of their generation?
Where? There’s lots of gun hippies in California.
Pride escort. Witch. Intellectual. Carrying.
I live off grid in deep rural Kentucky, USA. We're close enough to Ft Knox that a lot of the people in our area are ex military, mostly officers, and they split 50/50 left right. Aside from that there are legitimately a few trans people in the area and a surprising number of gay people and nobody really seems to care. I honestly see more trump memorabilia when I go to the city, but by and large the people in my area are very much of the "you do you and we'll do us" crop. There are rumors of militias in nearby counties, but I would be truly outrageously surprised if they were more than overweight middle age country boys getting drunk in the woods. Every part of rural Kentucky is not like this. Some parts are worse, but I don't really know of any that are better. The problem with the whole leftists moving to the country is that you are almost never sure what you're going to get, and living out here, you need to be able to rely on your neighbors in a much different way than you would in more urban areas. I would love for more like minded people to live around here, but I think that it may truly be too late for a migration to occur.
They don’t care now. When chips are down, when survival or even a quiet life is on the line a ton of people will change. History is full of people turning on each other for comfort or profit.
Hate to say it but even leftists/liberals with kids are highly likely to point out the undesirables hiding in their neighbor's attic to protect their own. When things really start getting scary the very people who are all piss and vinegar with their online rhetoric will throw on MAGA hats and crucifix necklaces to blend in as their neighbors are harassed out of town or hauled away to disappear forever camp deep in the woods. Before even talking about running or fighting we should at least TRY for a narrow election victory.
Yup. Look at any other place this has happened? Heck read ‘The Man in the High Castle”! To survive most will. A small underground will exist and as MAGA has shown already they will even go after each other for the small scraps so they can be manipulated for self interest. But you are right
Nobody here is saying not to vote. We're saying you need a plan if voting fails.
I think there is a lot of truth to what you say. I strongly believe I would be the person hiding people at my own risk. When I was young my parents organized and marched for civil rights. I remember the crap and hate we got from out neighbors. I will never forget that time, it is burned in my memory. And my wife, while more nervous would be on board. Being Jewish, she understands hate and the value of helping people who are not like you. I hope I live up to what I typed.
First they came...
When it eventually crashes, before the ICJ trials, the Truth Commissions, the trials, the “I actually fought from the inside” books … a lot of them will do their best to delete their history or disappear.
If we could just all adopt a “I do me and you do you, but help each other when in need” mentality we’d be so much better off. The culture wars have brainwashed many but I do think most people would be just fine with that mentality. Unfortunately it only takes a violent minority to ruin everything.
“I do me and you do you" has no meaning when "doing me" involves stealing the land from others, enslaving others, and supporting a state that brutalizes people and locks them up unjustly.
That's never been America though. Since the dawn of the republic the point of government is to make the lives of people who are inconsequentially different that you a living hell. That, and make people with money more money. That's about it, so I'm not crying when the 250 year old "democracy" dies off for good, or at least changes the deed and title to something more honest. Like the Coordinated Discriminatory Oligarchies of White Jesus, Incorporated.
We’ve made a metric fuck ton of progress at least.
>We're close enough to Ft Knox that a lot of the people in our area are ex military, mostly officers, and they split 50/50 left right. Split 50/50 ... rural Kentucky .... I read things like this and I think if denial is a river in Egypt, then you are about to be hit with the equivalent of the Aswan dam collapsing when this fantasy world of yours implodes.
Hi, are you from Kentucky? I've lived here almost my whole life except for an unfortunate few years in _shudder_ indiana. This is a much more diverse state than even most kentuckians give it credit for being. I won't argue about a lot, but part of the problem this country is _in to begin with_ is a deep mistrust and misunderstanding between the urban and the rural parts of the population that politicians on both sides are all to eager to capitalize on. Almost 40% of the state voted against Trump in 2020. Our democratic party governor is being discussed as a backup plan for Biden. My wife has klan fighters in her immediate family. My W4 retired from 24 years active duty neighbor has a trans son and several interracial couples live within a mile from where I'm typing this, far southwest of Louisville. There's a married lesbian couple up the hill from me. Are there bigots here? Yes. Are there assholes here? Yes. But I'll mention this as a god damn fact that I saw more "confederate" flags on my last trip through Wisconsin and Minnesota than I do in my neck of the woods. It shocked the fuck out of me too. The sweeping generalizations or Aswan dams or whatever the fuck that you want to call it, on all sides of the political aisle, are exactly why we are here now. Divisions were harvested and amplified by D and R politicians to stoke fear and division, in the aftermath of the civil rights movement, between urban and rural. Like it or not, rural people have a LOT to be upset about and I'm not talking migrants or gay people or whatever and the Republicans aren't helping them _at all._ Seems to me that Dems could fix some shit out here and gain a lot of appreciation, but instead what the rural people here is another Clinton calling us deplorables. That is what they hear, regardless of how that comment was meant. It doesn't take a rocket scientist, just a 45, to capitalize on shit like that.
Solid truth.
I appreciate this comment so much as a former academic lefty who now considers herself politically homeless. I'm an anthropology and history nerd, so I see the writing on the wall. So much so, I quit my cushy job in academia to move to the country with my family and make a go at the homestead life. We're total newbies, so we're learning a lot when it comes to a more self reliant lifestyle. On that note, living in a rural area (west tennessee) for almost 2 years now has taught me a lot about the anger people feel out here. Sure, the bigotry exists, and it's misguided, yes, but when I zoom out and acknowledge the devastation that neoliberal and big ag policies have done to people who just want to make their living off the land and live a more peaceful existence, I totally get it. I can also understand the rural animosity toward city dwellers whom farmers bust ass to feed, and the city dwellers never acknowledge or even think about them as they shop for their groceries. I don't know. I see the nuances of the rural/city divide that I didn't see before.
I have literally no sympathy for rural folks who have voted for extreme corporate greed and called it fighting socialism. That’s what’s eating their farms and the rage they have for folks who are not to blame is a result of the propaganda they readily digest.
Exactly. They're literally their own worst enemy.
I hear you and that's a fair point, however, democrats are just as guilty as Republicans when it comes to serving corporate interests. Sadly, voters on both sides have been screwed by the corporate uniparty for decades now. There really is no difference between the two parties when it comes to substantive issues, just culture war bs.
Disagree substantially, but i agree dog walking folks through regulations being repealed so corporations can merge over and over again until oligarchy is difficult. Rural America has this chip on their shoulder that instead of blaming on greed they’ve largely blamed on other poor people (much poorer than them) in large cities.
You can thank Mcarthyism for the whole "fighting socialism" bit. I've argued to groups of old rural people hanging out at the gas station that their lives are socialist - sharing farm equipment so everyone doesn't have to have a combine, for instance, community support of people in need/hospitalized, etc. Actually talking to people out here, instead of looking down your nose at all of the stupid hicks, goes far. Rural America’s connection with the rest of the country has slowly contracted in the years since World War Two. Swathes of rural America left their places of birth for employment opportunities or military service and did not return. Over the following decades, many of the best and brightest rural children left as well, with the rate increasing in the years following the easy availability of student academic loans. The last four generations of American children were told that a traditional four year college track was the only key to having a secure future, and by necessity, many of the jobs these graduates filled were not available in rural America. As there is a correlation between educational achievement and political affiliation, this diaspora has contributed to the polarization of the urban rural divide in the United States. Well paying jobs used to exist in rural America that didn't require a college education and they left in the 80s/90s. Lots of that was on NAFTA - although its origins predate Clinton, rural people remember Clinton signing it. Jobs flee, the smartest children flee, and rural people watch their communities dry up and fill with opiates as the 90s ended. I have heard countless urban people say some variation of "if it is so bad out in the country, why don't they move?" From land that their family may have owned for generations (I live on land that has been in my wife's extended family for almost 200 years) that is in most cases their only source of generational wealth? Urban people frequently move, or at least moving has been something that wasn't bad. Out here loosing the family farm, or the house you grew up in, or whatever is a fn catastrophe. It's not just the land, it's the history of your family on the land for generations. People don't get attached to apartments, but you sure as fuck get attached to your land. People out here have watched their communities wither and die and listen to urban people lump them all in as deplorables and racists and hicks and whathaveyou, and then you are surprised when they don't want to vote for policies that by and large help urban people - while their roads and bridges are failing, while their schools are shutting down, while their jobs and everything that they've worked for are threatened. I am an atheist but I can understand why these people cling to things like the church, as it's often the only social gathering or community that is left in many places. Republicans have managed to harness these fears and capitalize on these woes and use them to drive conservative policies that in most cases simply do not benefit rural people. As a Kentuckian, what the fuck has McConnell ever done for us? I am NOT saying that all rural people are blameless victims or whatever. I am saying that the situation is much more complex than you are making it out to be.
I’m a political analyst at times, and I write a lot about rural Texas politics and rural politics in general. A lot of the rural anger is either misunderstood or misplaced. Most really has to do with economic disenfranchisement that’s been led jointly by both parties - the GOP just has better populist rhetoric. It’s not about politics or religion. It’s about people’s need to feed their families, find work that pays fairly, and live where and how they’d like to. It should come as no surprise then that rural voters don’t resonate with social Justice issues - who cares who gets married if people can’t find jobs? - heavy handed, unworkable environmental policy (that did more much damage to rural economies and infrastructure as anything the GOP ever did), or antitrust and tax issues. Most are too poor to really be affected by things like estate taxes and cap gains - but taxes read as taxes, and were a largely anti-authoritarian, “no taxation without representation” people. Partially because the goal of taxes - to fund social services - never seem to make it outside of the suburbs, if it’s not the USDA implementing it. And the democrats have weaponized the farm bill for its last two rounds. And you’re right - rural culture, by necessity of our job availability, is hardworking, blue-collar culture. People who happily say “we work for a living.” And point at people sitting at a desk at all day in the AC and say that they don’t. I’ve worked both kinds of jobs. And even with what I do now - I still have a lot of animosity for people who, frankly, don’t do productive work. I’ve served as a business consultant and I’m 100% the axeman that middle management checks under their bed for at night. I come in, they go. But it’s all the same shit that got trump elected in rural areas and the rust belt - people disenfranchised economically looking for someone to blame who isn’t, for once, a politician - and someone actually listening to those complaints and at least promising to do *something* with it. Which neither party has really done since LBJ broke the south. Same as rural voters - largely seen by urbanites as racist - resonated with Obama’s rhetoric of change and opportunity. And haven’t with Biden’s promises of justice and environmental reforms. It’s not rocket science. It’s all about economics. But our culture as a whole tends to be very insular and “fuck you, I got mine” as urban individualism goes. Most of rural America still doesn’t embrace that. We’re very mutual aid oriented, willing to give help and hands up - our big disagreements are on how do that - partially because we have been repeatedly burned by state and federal promises for rain that never comes. Most aid goes to urban areas. It’s been that way for years. So it’s small wonder why rural areas don’t get good and sauced up about promises for social services and tax breaks and aid programs. Most aid for us comes from USDA, the state extension agencies, and bits and pieces of HUD (most funded by USDA or its state equivalents). The Dems, riding 90s New Dem ideals, wonder why they can’t attract rural voters. But don’t pitch policy planks anyone in rural areas really cares about. And it’s long past the point that rural voters ask for help, and the response is “we need more FMLA time for white collar workers,” or “we should let gay people get married,” and whether we agree or not - it just reads as insulting. “We’d like better infrastructure, better support for small business, antitrust action against the big factory farms, and better farm subsidies” “Ok but how about new environmental regulations for wetlands protection instead? That’s rural, right?” And while plenty of us care about it - I’m a lefty conservation reporter by day myself - it’s a relative slap in the face by a party that’s faced dwindling rural support since Carter. Because we’re not stupid. We see that all the “opportunity” grants are going to urban development. That’s the “why” of the knee jerk hatred of rural voters to “urbanism.” Not the conspiracy theories. Worrying that this year - it won’t rain. And no help will come for us. But it’ll come for the banks. It’ll come for retail. It’ll come for tech. It’ll come for B2B sales. It’ll come for AI and EVs. But the Dems have very clearly said, repeatedly, “fuck y’all.” and that’s not lost on rural voters. Whether we sit left or right in the high halls of government. And academias best answer of late has been “white rural rage,” which is about how religion made us all this way. Hate to break to y’all but rural churches aren’t churches. Not really. They’re as much community centers and social service orgs as anything else - and most of even our religious are just Sunday Christians who get as tired of the politicizing and polemicizing from the pulpit as anything else. Or it’s racism. And perhaps it is - but the GOP just capitalized on that anxiety and gave rural people non-WASP, non-straight, non-GAB people to blame for it all, because they’re the people the democrats have an existential need to pander to - because of the dwindling support for New Democrat policy (and you can see this in the near-miss of Sanders that caused the DNC to close ranks and crack down on intra-party dissent). It’s all about business. It’s all cash-money economics and pork barrel politics. Take all the rage and fear out of it, and it makes a hell of a lot more sense. And rural politics is, as it’s always been, about whether or not a crop yields this year, whether another farmer is putting a gun to their head about it, or if someone’s livestock will survive the winter. If contractors are building this year. If the local factory will close this year - after threatening the last three. If the only jobs left pay minimum wage and groceries and gas keep inflating. And it’s hard for people to care about softer issues when that’s the reality that most still live in rural America. Because of years worth of political neglect. Trump just capitalized on that to sell his campaign. And it worked - despite what even the GOP felt.
So beautifully stated. 1000% agree.
I mean they do have a Democrat governor. My family lives in rural Kentucky and are democrats.
Fight. This is my country too.
Yes sir!
This, the nazi fucks aren't making me leave. I love where I am, they can leave if they don't like it.
[удалено]
And America is the beating heart of world trade and commerce atm... it it falls to the facists, it'll hurt or outright starve any places that aren't also like it. It'll be a dark day for the world in a way that I don't know we have ever seen.. we haven't seen a facist nation so powerful with nuclear weapons that have no counter force to match it...
People talk about moving to Canada or something if Trump gets back in. Believe me, if he gets back in, we’re going to want to be in the Congo or New Guinea or something. He’ll make life worse not just here but practically everywhere. We’re probably going to want to be pretty remote. But for now we should fight like hell.
we’re gonna get pierre polievve (or however tf his name is spelt ) as our next prime minister. he’s pretty bad as well . same politics as trump just hidden behind a fancy calm boy aesthetic
Canada seems a bit more institutionally secure against Trumpish politics — starting from a more progressive position as well (including a higher percentage of college educated people, higher tolerance for LGB and T people, etc). Canada is my plan if things go south here.
in like three of our provinces a teacher can get arrested if they don’t immediately inform the parents of a kids pronoun change :/ i know it’s a lottt worse in the states but it’s not great here. alberta and saskatchewan are pretty conservative and entrenched in those values , not a lot of room for change. also the liberals have managed to turn everyone against them, and the npd has completely dropped the ball with any type of left populism. as fucked as the gov was with covid, the trucker movement funnelled all the crunchy granolas and anti gov rural people into a fascist pipeline. our culture isn’t as brutal and in your face as yours is so a lot of stuff flies under the radar, but the same general themes are there. by all means please come if your country becomes fascist and we have protections you don’t, but just be willing to join the struggle here when you get here because all of us depend upon it.
No way am I sitting on the sidelines (here or in Canada). Even though I vibe better with Canada then the US (long considered moving there even before 2016 happened), the US is my home country and the only reason I’d leave is if it is no longer safe for my family here.
🙌💯
Congo and New Guinea are the opposite of where you would want to be. If you wanted to go the isolated in a tropical rainforest route, places like Bolivia/Colombia/Peru/Ecuador (or even Brazil now with Lula) or Costa Rica or Vietnam or Laos. DRC and PNG are extremely dangerous, unwelcoming, and immeasurably unstable.
New Guinea is a horrible place beyond your wildest imagination.
Right? The most insane levels of DV,and child sexual abuse..
Yeah but the got god tier penis sheaths.
Tell me more. Asking for a friend.
Don't go there, they chafe like a mf until you get callouses.
Man, way to name like, two of the already worst places. Maybe toss North Korea on there while you are at it.
I’m not actually recommending their political systems or immigrating there. I chose them because of their significant rural areas which could remain fairly unscathed if, say, Trump pushes Putin into WW3
Didn't you hear him last night? Putin will be too afraid of him to do anything more in Europe because Trump is such a badass.
🤣🤣🤣
Trump and Putin would gang up and nuke anyone who tells them off, let's be clear about that.
We fight like hell.
Yes, we could definitely be on the road to dictatorship.
FYI, I think Germany has an expedited citizenship application process for those whose family fled Germany because of the Nazis. Its been a few years since I looked into it, as I was researching not for myself but for my mother, so I'm not super sure, but I think they wave the language requirements for these cases.
Germany also currently has [a bit of a far right problem, I'm afraid.](https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2024/3/12/24080074/germany-afd-far-right)
They got that satirical movie “look who’s back” from a decade ago, talking about how easy people would get behind him again.
The only thing that slowed Hitler in that movie was when he shot a dog. Meanwhile Kristi Noem putting even that to bed.
I am a Polish American. I will always choose to fight.
All of the above, but fight. The so-called "experiment" is failing.
I moved to Canada after J6. We fled. For anyone reading, 52 is the realistic age limit to come here. Takes 2-3 years to get PR. If you're interested, start now, as I expect them to close the border at some point in 2025. That said, while Canada is doing better, a lot of shit here is very bad. Also, frankly, I don't know a single country that isn't doing terrible for anyone in the bottom 90%
I heard it’s really hard getting work up there if you’re not a Canadian citizen or not married to own. Is it feasible to do this if you have a family with kids?
We came up with 2 kids. One of our kids is queer. They can be open and safe here. We have yet to regret our decision. It gets complicated, too. Provinces have a say in Immigration. The easiest ways to get here without a cirizen spouse as an American is to sign up for a Masters/PhD program, sign up for a bachelor's degree if you don't already have one and some plausible Canadian connection, pay out of pocket for a trade at a community College, have an in demand career, or train in an in demand career (trades, truck drivers, nurses, etc.). The economy is shite here, and it's hard to get jobs. I won't lie. A lot depends on your specific circumstances. I'm happy to talk to you in PMs and provide more targeted resources. For now: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship.html
Idk if you would know this or not, but are there pipelines for creative freelancers to come there? I know some countries do digital nomad visas, but I've never heard of it for there.
They're pushing so hard because they know if they lose, they'll lose it all. The GOP will be bankrupt after this election (including a large number of the state parties), and by '28 there won't be enough boomers left to counteract millennials and zoomers, so if they don't get it now, they know they're done for.
That’s assuming Gen Z is completely liberal
If you look into global news, authoritarianism is on the rise **globally**. This is our last stand. We either vote like our lives depend on it, or we sentence future generations to take the last steps into a thousand years of darkness.
So, I think this is where "where you live" is going to do a lot of heavy lifting. If you live in a solidly blue/liberal state like California, Minnesota, or Massachusetts, and in a metro area, you're probably not going to encounter much of anything. Outside of those places, in red counties of blue states you'll probably also be fine but would probably deal with harassment. Already do. If you live in a red state, especially a southern one, you should already be getting out or training for a fight.
Hasn’t Trump already been talking about deploying the military to blue cities to deal with “out of control crime?” I think he is planning on coming for everyone, but it will start in red states. In fact they are already talking about arresting women in Texas who leave for abortions so they are getting the public ready for the idea of tracking people out of state like they did with the Fugitive Slave Laws.
Well that would be a major constitutional crisis and an act that could plunge us into a major insurgency/ counter insurgency fight
> major constitutional crisis It’s cute you think that matters anymore.
I’ve been hearing phrases like “such and such an action by Trump will trigger a constitutional crisis” since 2015. You know what happens? Each time, he does the thing, the crisis comes, and suddenly, it’s not referred to as a crisis any more, and we just move along. It reminds me of how genocide is handled. Much ado about the coming horror; then, the bloodbath arrives; after that, nothing is done about it. Goebbels was right: if you relentlessly repeat the lies, they become truth. It’s also true that you can utterly destroy and pervert society if you are patient and creep into power. There are no limits to what you can do. It’s the ultimate fantasy and the GOP is living it. They figured out how to game the system.
I live in a big blue city now and this is exactly what Im worried about. He's going to have the local cops do his mass deportations, and he's already experimented with squads of DHS snatching people off the street (it happened in Portland in 2020). I think it would be hard to do what Stephen Miller proposed (having red state national guards march into blue states) but I'm thinking he'll feel emboldened enough to try it.
Just wait till they start making pregnant women wear ankle monitors.
Trump talks about a lot of things. Trump talked of buying Greenland. Trump talked of building a wall and making mexico pay for it. None of those things happened.
We also lost Roe V Wade, a massive number of consumer and labor relations, and practice runs of the suspension of Constitutional Rights within 100 miles of a border/ port and the use of BORTAC and other paramilitary federal police units to quell unresf
Google project 2025. Trump sucks and is incompetent but the right wing apparatus is going to surround him with more talented fascists this time.
Yes! Why aren’t people talking about this and Agenda 47?! They have a plan this time and it’s authoritarian.
We all need to get the word out about Project 2025; share with family and friends!
He didn’t think he was going to win, so there was no plan for if he did. This time, he’s ready and there is a very bad plan.
Definitely agree with this, especially considering Mother Nature is really gonna start kicking our collective ass for how we've been treating her. I've been thinking a lot about how the next level of weather disasters happening all over this country is going to affect the rising fascism/authoritarianism. I happen to live in a rural part of the PNW, part of the "I deal with some harassment but I'm fine" camp. But since the west coast is so blue, if Trump wins there will be a lot of talk of secession. Normally I'd say there's no chance it would work, but you add in the stress of continued heat waves, droughts, and wildfires and a federal government completely unable to respond to those real stresses...? I feel very uncertain about what our future holds. But to answer the question, I'm choosing to fight. This one of the better places to be in our new climate changed world and still a strong blue state. But also, this is my home. I was born here, I've lived here all my life. (I also recently found out that I have some Native ancestry on my Mom's side.) I will protect my home and my community from whatever comes at us, fire or fascists.
> Definitely agree with this, especially considering Mother Nature is really gonna start kicking our collective ass for how we've been treating her. The even more f'd up bit is, as long as humans burn millions of tons of FF's each day, it really doesn't matter if we're organized as a democracy, or a socdem, or into something centrally planned, it doesn't even matter if we turn into a nutjob theocracy or go full fascist. Same outcome. edit; matter as in, change global outcomes. it will matter a great deal to a great many individuals.
Great, I forgot how awesome it was to have a President that threatened no federal emergency after California’s record fire seasons before the pandemic… that’ll be cool.. fml
A second Trump Administration will decimate NY and CA even if it craters the American economy. He’ll squeeze companies to give him money and public praise and force them to hand over your data. In Cuba they have CDS, neighbourhood watch. He’ll set them up to go after liberals, moderate, gays, etc. this will destroy the economy and he won’t care. But it will take a few years to hit his core base, by then it will be too late.
I think you guys give the orange baboon too much credit. The dipshit couldn't even book the right four seasons.
It’s not him, it’s the people who stand behind him. The Steven Millers, Bannon, Nick Fuentes. Trump is being used by them and as long as his ass is kissed and gets public adoration (and money) he don’t care. Look how North Korea and China have him the public show and played him.
I once said that multinationals could leave. I got told no but.. once the American economy tanks, once salaries start coming down, credit cards start charging huge rates and the American consumer is no longer #1 why stay?
He’s a dipshit, but the people coordinating Project 2025 aren’t. They’re setting up the playbook, all he has to do is implement it.
He isn't going to implement anything. He'll be playing golf. They'll give him a piece of paper and say "sign this" and then they'll implement it for him.
> The dipshit couldn't even book the right four seasons. I'm no Trump fan, but they booked the place they meant to book. I forget exactly why they decided to hold it there, but I looked into it a few months ago when I remembered how funny it was. They told Trump and he misunderstood and later clarified on Twitter. The whole thing was still a dumpster fire because it's Trump.
You need to read r/Defeat_Project_2025 or watch the latest episodes of John Oliver. This time around, a Trump administration will be much more organized and will decimate our system of government.
The very thin silver lining to the right's fanatical devotion to "state's rights" has me grateful that I live in California, but I don't see that protection lasting long again a Trump dictatorship since they're only using it to prop up their tenacious hold on power.
they dont actually believe in states rights. its just an easy argument against having to enforce peoples rights without having to acknowledge thats what theyre against. if they could pass a federal ban on abortion, gay marriage, etc they would not hesitate.
The fanatical devotion to state's rights goes only as far as uses of federal power they dislike. They'll be perfectly fine enforcing a national abortion ban or gun control ban or contraception ban.
Absolutely! They're only fanatically devoted to it because it's a successful tool.
Eventually they'll ban guns too.
This is very shortsighted. Look at project 2025 they're going to roll the military out. Trump promised to deport millions of people it won't take long for Stephen Miller to realize camps worm better than deportation. I don't think this is hyperbolic. Even tho Trump is an idiot he surrounded himself with true monsters. No where will be safe.
I hope they start with the slaughter house employees. Billy Bob Bubba will be signing a different tune when there is no more cheap cuts of meat at his Walmart.
Forget being in the South, Wisconsin, rural Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and Pennsylvania are all Northern States and the Dakotas and Iowa are all just as bad as the South right now.
Facts there brother! I live in one of those states and do attest.
This is exactly why we moved to California from Indiana. We wanted the political buffer a blue state might provide.
You are absolutely right. Stuck in a red southern state and it continues to get worse every week.
I live in one of those solidly blue/liberal states and, back in 2020, I began the process to get citizenship by descent. Now I have a passport to an EU country and, should I feel the need, that will get me and my wife out of the US. Things are safe here for now, but I do feel better much knowing I have a rock solid escape route. [I wrote a guide to help people get started exploring their eligibility for citizenship by descent.](https://www.reddit.com/r/USAexit/comments/17m2ua0/shufflebuzzs_guide_to_citizenship_by_descent/)
My family lives in Cali and we own our home (almost) so I feel pretty secure for now. Our extended family in red states are gonna be miserable, but they've been going with the flow for a long time now. Maybe if they keep their heads down it won't be too bad. The 2nd reTrumplican admin will be a human disaster of epic proportions, but I don't see any signs that Uh'mericans are coming to their senses, *sooo*... we're fucked, I guess?
This is where I will have to get over my fear of guns and join a chapter of the John Brown Gun Club.
Canada isn’t it, either, just in case people are wondering. Our next gov is gonna be stupid and fascist af. Conservatism and fake populism is VERY popular, sadly.
I've got nothing to live for atm so I'll stay and fight to the bitter end I guess.
I'm... in many of the buckets you just named. I'm scared as hell. I'm entirely reliant on my allies to carry this. Given past performance, that is not encouraging, given the last two elections. Here's what I know: * 1/3 of this country has been trained to hate me and wants me dead. These voted Republican. * 1/3 of this country is indifferent to the above outcome. These did not vote or voted 3rd party. * 1/3 of this country generally considers my death "not ideal", and would like to have it not happen. They voted Democrat. These aren't great odds. I really would prefer to not die. Please?
The Democrats were never going to save you from fascism, so nothing has really changed today vs. yesterday. I'm going to try to take things as they come, make what small improvements to my situation as I can make, and try not to drive myself nuts with hypotheticals.
Come November, a lot of these hypotheticals and counterfactuals become brutally tangible and concrete. That's not long off.
Yeah, the fantasy isn't that things are going to be fine, it's that there's someplace you're going to go or someone you can vote for to escape from what's coming.
What happened in Grants Pass? I love that place. The Rogue River was my home for like 6 months in 2016.
The goddamn Supreme Court ruled in the favor of the city of grants pass, basically allowing the criminalization of homelessness across the country.
I'm really starting to think Octavia Butler was a fucking profit because this is all so wildly close to Parable of the Sower.
I know. Damn. I wish we were in a Le Guin storyline instead.
Or any future that includes anything remotely similar to Rolling Fuck.
The Supremes said cities can make it illegal to sleep or eat if you don't have a home.
This is one reason I’m now living on Mindanao in the Philippines. I married a Filipina, I live with her family here, she has two children and we have one on the way. I am extremely concerned with the direction the US is going and fled.
Fuck all that. As an old, white dude, I will stand in front of the people who are being target, and I will be loud and proud. My parents, who marched for civil rights would expect no less from me.
Oh yeah, I should got get a shot gun and a carry permit.
First, I want to thank you for posting this, and emphasize it's not an overreaction. I believe there are a lot of stupid and downright mean people in this country, and when combined with the 50% who don't vote, it's a really dangerous time. If Orange Mussolini comes to power, I will insist that my gay son gets out of this neon Christo-Fascist hell hole. But I will stay and resist as much as I can. Too old to run and have two big dogs that I love, and who would not survive the quarantine European countries make dogs go through. With all that said, the Thursday night debate is not a death blow to democracy. Most Americans did not watch it. And those that did, have not switched from Biden to Trump. Biden folks like myself may be disappointed and worried, but we did not say to ourselves, "oh gosh, Biden is old and feeble, I better vote for Orange Mussolini". And believe it or not so called "Independent voters" did not make that leap either. Those of us who care about things tend to get locked in the 24/7 news box. Unfortunately, in the US where everything is about money, the news media is no different. If it helps ratings the media will go for all the drama and salaciousness they can generate. That includes MSNBC who minutes after the debate started talking about dumping Biden as the Democratic nominee. You could write a book on how that would be almost impossible, unless Biden himself was down for the plan. Regardless, MSNBC is happy to play up the drama, even at the risk of our democracy. (And keep in mind, that's supposed to be the one remaining progressive network.)
It might help Biden’s chances. Now we are talking about whether to allow the elderly to continue working for a few years past when they get old cranky or senile. Most of us are content to put up with a few flaws. We know we benefit by learning from a lifetime of experience. A huge block of voters are themselves very old. Discussing genocide sounds a lot worse. Arresting kids and locking them in border camps. Selling drilling leases on public lands. New gas pipelines for *export*. Minimum wage. Student debt. Debt. Inflation, healthcare cost, health, globalization, wealth gaps… Lets talk about whether people should be forced out of their jobs because of ageism. What happens if voters actually read or watch what a candidate says while asking themselves “is this a demented old buffoon”. If stupidity is the main factor that Americans look for when they try to make a decision then Donald Trump has no chance of winning an election.
Fight. Amerikkka is a nuclear armed superpower. Fascist states implode. If Hitler had the bomb he woulda set it off before shooting himself. Trump will have a world ending arsenal. There’s no where to hide when a fascist USA self destructs. We’re all in this together, and we need to fight and win, now.
Can we collectively find a decent sized piece of land and start a more or less self sufficient community. I’ve got building skills and lived rural most of my life in the Midwest so I’ve got some survival skills while we get off the ground. We would needs some herbalists and doctors. Like let’s all go to ground together to try and survive this shit. I’ve got a general understanding of how to build a generator from scrap so it wouldn’t be totally Stone Age. Idk what do people think of that. Maybe somewhere north Midwest or Pacific Northwest, think places that get rainfall and be easier to self sustain
I think about stuff like that a lot. The main problem is that the fascists would relentlessly attack any "free" community if it settled on a piece of land that was of any potential value to them. The Radical Right doesn't *manage* resources, it *steals and exploits* resources. T'was ever thus.
I agree with you however here’s a counterpoint, how long do we live in fear of what the radical right may do when our lives may be at risk? When do we stand up for our right to live and defend what we have? When would it end? Do we just lay down and die cause that doesn’t sound great to me. And look I’m generally a pretty diplomatic guy, I don’t like violence, but I’ve come to terms with the reality that sometime in the not so distant future I might have to fight for what I believe in.
I have talked quite a bit about trying to set up something like that up here in Alaska. That being said, the sheer isolation would be both a blessing and a curse.
Your grandfather was one if the smart ones. The only reaso. Hitler was able to massacre so many people is because *they stayed there for it.* I've been telling people for a few years now to stop participating in society and to get somewhere to hide while the collapse of civilization plays out. >My inner hippie says it's time to go to ground. Find a remote place to live out my days that doesn't have internet or cell service. Go on a multi year media fast, only read quarterly publications and books. No television. No radio. Live as a political anchorite. Avoid town as much as possible This is 100% correct. What we are about to see is the complete and total collapse of global civilization... but while we are waiting for the climate to bake us alive, or for the nuclear weapons to air fry us, we will have to deal with the early effects. And much of that is going to be authoritarian dystopia. Better to go live in a hidden cave on some mountain, stocked with everything you need for the next 20 years, rather than stay out in the urban sprawls and experience being "rounded up" in some of the first waves. To be extremely blunt, I am a 48 year old white male. I can fake it for a while if I have to, and survive. If you don't have that capability... you need to seriously start trying to secure an alternative. And that means to GTFO while you can.
U are way, way too self-sure
You can hide, but the other guy has a say in whether that works or not. Sure helps to know how to fight if hide turns into found. Other options? I’m not the first target for bad actors on the right, but my friends and family are. If I end up going down with them, that’s just how it’s gonna shake out. Sure as hell can’t run or back down with a good conscience while people are out to make my loved ones not exist. Finally - I was born in this country and, through all its flaws and its past, it’s still my home. I’ll die before someone takes that away from me and mine.
Your racism and bias make you part of the problem. You can't see out the boxes you put yourself in to feel different. We are all fertilizer to the machine. You think you can identify your enemies by skin, or age, or sex, or which color of gang they bow to for salvation. We are just numbers on a spreadsheet. A variable in an equation that your real enemies are utilizing every resource they have, which is almost all of them, to solve. Every time you devide yourself is a victory for them. There is no running, and soon there will be nowhere left to hide.
You have a second amendment right too. It's not just for right wing ammosexuals. Use it to prepare for the worst.
This community just popped up on my feed - I’m staying and fighting if necessary, until it gets really horrible. I’m trans and live in NC. If they outlaw HRT and somehow make it impossible to get it DIY, then I’ll consider leaving. If they outright criminalize us, then I’ll consider leaving. Do what you need to; I’m very lucky to be able to leave at a moment’s notice if I have to. At the same time, if we all preemptively flee, then who will be left to stand up to them? Not that most people can realistically flee anyway. Idk, maybe it’s wishful thinking but I’m holding on to hope that this is not inevitable. And we’re stronger together and all that, right?
Also in NC with an adult trans child. I'm Cherokee. I'm staying this is my goddamned country. I'll stay and fight, but I may ship her out if at all possible.
If you learn German, chances are actually pretty decent you can be allowed in. Germany is one of the most open places in Europe to immigrants. If people learn the language, follow the rules, and fit in decently well, they tend to be fairly happy to have 'em. The financial support could be a concern.
I escaped Texas and went West in 2016. I write an online graphic novel parallel to current events and hope I can finish it before something happens to me, and that's about the only reason I stick around. I've found some satisfaction in the fact that people here are still into mutual aid, so I contribute where I can.
You stay and fight. Period.
I wont hide. “Death before dishonor.” I am not running. My fear is that i never did enough. I visited Neuengamme 24 years ago. A large black and white photo stands out in my memory. Both the guards standing over the pit and the prisoners working in the pit look like the local population of lower Saxony. The guards faces looked a bit pork fed and, of course, SS uniforms stand out. The prisoner’s faces had the sunken gaunt look of people being worked to death. To me it was a relief to see (both in the photograph and the detailed accounts) that political dissidents were the vast majority of the camp’s victims during the early years of operation. It suggests that ethnic and cultural guilt does not have to be coded into your genes. I can choose to believe i will be among the first that the fascists will want to kill. I can do think to make that the reality. I talk to maggots. Even work with some. I doubt they can look me in the eye and kill me. Though, like most Americans, they can be involved in many atrocities out of sight. I worry about the minorities. DACA and transgendered might suffer a lot of indignities. Berks detention center was near where i live. It took a long time to shut down. The protests there were quite uplifting. A few times the detainees came out and waved. It was bad that it existed but it certainly was not Neuegamme. When Trump gets elected civil disobedience will probably be necessary. Getting locked up will suck. It will also cost a fortune in lost work time. If you are afraid of that just adopt the Mormon dress code and work for the shitty wages. They might be coming for the active activists. Very likely that maggots will just ignore the active activists too. Trump will want the extreme left to get lots of public exposure so that he can rile up his base. I inherited German citizenship. I just have to go to the consulate with my birth certificate and my mother’s. I have considered working in Europe just because Europe is really nice. However i am not going to run there. That would make me become one of the enabling bystanders.
If you are curious as to what civil armed conflict will look like, look as the Irish Troubles.
Get out while the getting is good. If orange one comes back, expect your passport to be pulled. If you hide, they will find you; if you fight, they will jail you (or go after your nearest and dearest). Never underestimate evil.
I signed up for a language school overseas earlier this week. Going to try to build a life in a slightly more stable country. See y'all
Fight
Stay for the election. We need every sane person voting in november, presidential and down ballot!!!
flee and they'll come knocking soon enough. unfortunately for them, they were so busy deepthroating the NRA that they forgot to disarm us.
Umm, have you been paying attention to what is happening to politics in Germany lately?? Whew. Fascism is taking over Europe as well. It’s scary times.
Hide in the foothills. Starlink doesn't take much solar with the good lifepo4 cells from China. Make a fire, fire up a fatty, turn up the music, and relax. We're seeing world history play out.
Oh god, there's Monday's decisions??! This corrupt court is only as legitimate as we let it be. We can riot in the streets until they GTFO. No one elected them and they're openly accepting bribes!!
Realistically most US citizens don't have the resources to immigrate internationally legally. For now we fight.
I plan to keep fighting for what’s right so when I get put up against the wall (hey Comrades!) it’s at least worth it.
I fled. Ive been living in Iceland since this all popped off in 2015.
My grandfather helped helped start the Russian Revolution, and a few years later when he saw who was going to be running the show he and his brothers got out of Russia. I could see that happening here. Anyone who really studies history knows that dictators and authoritarian's don't come into power when everyone is happy. I told my friend that January 6th was really the Beer Hall Putsch. And if they didn't really enforce the law to the letter after that it would just embolden people for the next time. And that was before you had people in political power calling criminals hostages and all that B.S. If Trump loses, then all bets are off. His cohorts have spent the last 4 years whipping people up into a frenzy and they didn't do it because they were bored. I can easily see him letting them loose and then saying that the only way that he will call them off is if they declare him the winner.
buy a gun while you still can, and update your passport and make sure you have it with you at all times. keep your head down and try to remove any public evidence of leftist activism online before it gets noticed. and remember the election hasn't happened yet, there is still a shred of hope that people will prefer an incompetent old man to a malevolent one, but don't plan for that. be ready to flee and arm yourself incase you cannot.
Certainly start diversifying if possible get dual citizenship and start working in an exit plan. If rule of law goes away then who knows where we are headed.
Thankfully I live in California, not America
Lot of good points in here but I haven’t seen this yet. I don’t think Germany is a good safe haven to consider. They really never solved the central issue that lead to the Nazis and they are doing their own slide to a fascism, albeit a slightly different flavor.
As a queer person born with a genetic neuromuscular condition where the only verifiable treatment is stem cells, I was the gay liberal vampire FOX warned about before they ever settled on the moniker. At six years old, I learned about my condition and genetics, and ask my parents questions that introduced me to the concept of eugenicism. Ever since I learned that eugenics was birthed here in the PNW I’ve lived my life on eggshells, because evidence has shown that WW2 did nothing about the domestic fascists
First, focus on getting young women in swing states to vote. They are a Biden landslide waiting. Second, the only reason there is any possibility of Trump winning is the electoral college. His voters are not a majority. Further the base, those who really favor the oppression proposed by the 2025 plan, are even fewer and not going to show up in the streets should push come to shove. There’s more but you all too busy panicking to take more in.
I have my Irish Passport at the ready..... Allows entry and residency in the whole of the EU
That's if they don't close air travel from the US to prevent everyone trying to claim asylum
I'm getting a passport finally. Not that I want to leave, but the option would be nice.
My plan is to keep living in blue states that border other countries.
Where exactly is better?
The problem is each one of those things takes money. Fight? You need weapons. Flight? You know how hard it is for people without direct ties to a country to move there? I've looked into moving to the UK or New Zealand and as a middle class disabled person it isn't really feasible. Hide? Buying a place in a rural location with likely minimal job prospects also isn't possible for most people. The least expensive thing to do is fight. I've done a ton of research into firearms over the past couple of months and I'm buying a gun as soon as I'm able to afford it. Depending on your state you might even have access to an AR-15, which is easily the most useful gun to have if you're really scared about a democratic crisis imo. I've been staunchly anti-gun (particularly anti-civilians owning weapons of war) but I've talked to my therapist a lot and I've made the decision to buy one. I'm in PA so buying one is upsettingly easy and you can get a fully functional one with a few useful accessories for less than a thousand dollars. I'm really hoping I never have to use it for more than target practice but here we are.
The right wing fascist scourge is on the march, barbarism resurgence.
Fight. Maybe not the right decision for everyone but I refuse to deny my own responsibility to be part of the solution. I can't stand by and I certainly can't run. I'd rather die than live knowing there was something I could have done but didn't. I'm not trying to act like a savior, just a willing grunt in the pursuit of equity and justice and we seriously need to organize; we're running out of time. Please DM if you are willing to share any info on how I/we can do this
Move to Portland and join our anarcho-collective.
I’ll stay and fight. Like another said, “death before dishonor”. Since 2016 I’ve felt a churning in my gut so I’ve been preparing for this for a long time. Besides firearms, I have taken up telepresence and robotics, as I figured that firearms alone may not be enough. I’ll stay to defend my friends, family and neighbors using the skills and resources I have. No fascist for miles will escape my sight.
Carve out a space for yourself in the new world. The circle of Bible belt evangelicals trying to implement Project 2025 do not understand modern society well enough to consolidate totalitarian control. Like they aren't going to be able to control TikTok generation no matter how hard they try. I think there's going to be a surface level of repression with people turning a blind eye to each others' "misbehavior" under the surface. Like with homosexuality in big cities pre-stonewall or with samizdat being circulated within the USSR.
Running is for the privileged. If in the rare possibility it comes to violence, than it must be answered in turn
Personally I think the recent episode on Caribbean anti slavery tactics was very instructional right now. Non compliance (in this case definitely includes voting ) Confrontation And the one I really see leftists missing now the last one I can never quite make out in the audio so Im going to call proliferation until someone corrects me. (Cunninghams law amiright?) Gotta organize, build networks of mutual support and a strong culture of self sufficiency ( fellow homesteaders and peppers I see you) and I think a big one people are missing is give people hope. We've spent decades with nothing but doom on the horizon even the kids I know doing really have any hope for a future. Even they see the writing on the wall. We need solid plans for what comes after such an inevitable destruction as much as to actually survive it. It's not enough to fight to live people need to fight for something better than that.
You seem to be wildly underestimating how hard it is to emigrate. There are 2 options: 1 - fight until they come for you 2 - hide until they come for you There is no fleeing. It is a fantasy
VOTE!!! We need to vote blue and start thinking that SCOTUS is full out MAGAt. That is why we must get a Dem president. The next one will appoint 2 justices. We will be completely Russia if Trump wins
You fight dumbass. There’s more of us. Time to march.
Why did you mention Grants Pass? What is going on in Grants Pass? GP is a tiny town in rural southern Oregon. What does that have to do with the rise of fascism? I’m surprised to even see GP mentioned in an unrelated thread, it’s a pretty unknown town. Is something going on that I don’t know about in Grants Pass?
The Supreme Court ruled today that grants pass can make homelessness illegal, which basically means that states and municipalities can make laws that criminalize the condition of being homeless all across the country.
After living with my parents in a rural environment for a few decades I see no safety there unless you are living amongst like minded folk. I much prefer the mostly camouflaged urban life style. No bumper stickers, no different flags, absolutely no political signs. I started flying the Stars and Stripes every day, illuminated at night, after uncle joe got elected . Before that I only flew it on national holidays, I fly multiple state university and sports team flags appropriately .