Idk one person on r/punk showed a screenshot of someone saying "greenday needs to stop being political" but they also posted something that said vote trump make America punk rock again. Probably saying that trump is punk rock or some shit
I think I understand what they're getting at. (And it's very stupid.)
Fascism is an ultranationalist ideology or tendency. With as much as MAGA Nazis cry about queer folks, brown people, "communists", and foreigners, you'd be forgiven for forgetting the other big thing that Trumpos are anxious about, which is the (for now) imaginary decline of America as a superpower.
Despite Barack Obama largely continuing and expanding the foreign policy doctrines of George W. Bush, in conservative world he and his administration were "weak" and America was "weak" while he was in office. He and the Democratic Party betrayed the military in ways that conservatives generally fail to articulate because they never happened. Funding increased and the war machine ground on. The only things they can point to are things like the end of the bans on openly same-sex-attracted and transgender people, things only bigots would have a problem with.
The average conservative or liberal has no idea how much the American economy benefits from imperialism and neocolonialism, so Trumpers in particularly don't see relatively cheap products from the Global South as evidence of America's continuing dominance in much of the world; to them, the fact that Russia, China, Iran, or Venezuela can just *say* anything bad about America without getting nuked or invaded is evidence of how far America has supposedly fallen. To them, geopolitics is a school playground where the biggest kid wins — and *deserves* to win — and any resistance can and should be overcome by being louder and punching harder.
In the mind of Trump's base, he is the bigger, louder kid (and possibly the literal Messiah), the one who is going to restore America to its "lost" place at the head of the international table and realize the nation's historic destiny as the world's moral guiding light by bullying the rest of the planet into subservience.
So fascist "punk" posers in America essentially buy into the old stereotype of what a punk is: a loud, needlessly aggressive, antisocial dick who throws their weigh around just because they can. Through that deeply idiotic lens, Trump is very punk.
Some comments further down arguing that being far right is actually the new punk. Also seeing a lot of "terf is the new punk" bullshit. Anyone who genuinely thinks trans people are "establishment" in any way needs to get their fucking heads checked.
It used to be a narrative back when he first became president. A bunch of alt right trying to claim he was the 'real' punk for overturning the system, surprising some folk with his win, and draining swamp yadda yadda. The sad thing is, right wingers will always see punk as nothing more than a change in any system, as they literally can't understand fighting oppression.
This needs more upvotes. I've had an INSANE amount of goths be racist and antisemitic to me in the past few years to the point where I didn't want anything to do with the goth community anymore. I don't know how they all claim to be inclusive yet treat me weird for being Filipino.
I got invited to an alternative goth subreddit because someone didn't like the main one's rules.
When I had a look, they considered the statement "trans women are women" as a radical belief and banned it
Damn straight. A Nazi can decide to stop being a Nazi and we antifascists will be more than willing not just to to let them go on in peace once they stop being an active danger, but to help aim them at therapy and exit programs.
A black person and a queer person cannot stop being what they are. The Nazi will only be satisfied with their deaths.
i sure hope they didnt like it, they call everyone and everything cringe and the second you criticize them, even if its the most constructive criticism, they go batshit insane lol
Indeed. As a fan of black metal, I make it a point to avoid places where fans of black metal gather. There are plenty of cool individual black metal fans, but when they gather, the nazis really come out of the woodwork.
seriously!!! black metal is one of my favorite genres but i cannot stand the fanbase. theyre all either nazis or people who think being a nazi is completely fine.
There are, thankfully, explicitly anti-fascist black metal labels and communities forming, but good god even those can be a bit rough. You still get a lot of nazi trolls who infiltrate and even the earnest people can be reactionary towards a lot of stuff.
And it really sucks avoiding bm shows because of the possible presence of nazis. I just want to enjoy music without having to fear being assaulted.
Unless people are being assholes or spreading hate j really just hate people being assholes because something they deemed "cringe" like fuck off lol let ppl do what they want
i know!! also they get mad when they get criticized for wearing nsbm patches. theyre total assholes and excuse it by saying black metal is meant to be hateful and whine when theyre called out for being assholes. that subreddit is everything i hate about black metal fans lol.
also i hate people who dislike rabm because its "too political" and then like nsbm.
Correct. I think use of imagery to be edgy 40 years ago, combined with FSU and the like stealing the crossed hammers after winning literal gang wars may have muddied the waters, but they're ideologically opposed.
I'd argue even more so than other groups, punks can't be nazis. SHARP movement is a thing, but otherwise fuck no.
Yeah. I’m a native queer, I’m kinda not super stoked about the 2S being included in the name. I think it encourages people to appropriate two spirit. I’m usually not super hung up on cultural appropriation, I wanna share all our cool stuff with everyone. It’s just that if you’re not native, you don’t fit the criteria for two spirit.
I just say my daughter's gay. She'll add, "Whelp, yep." My sister's a frenetically antisocial and asexual old cat woman. Doesn't need a letter, just "Yeah, she doesn't like to go out much."
I'm all for it, because frankly I don't care. If your personality resolves around hurting or shaming others rather than being happy and wanting to see others vent and have fun too, I'm going full on Henry Rollins.
The more you add the more people you’re specifically excluding. I feel the same way about the progress flag.
The original pride flag is a rainbow because it represents *the full spectrum*. It was never specifically a homosexual male pride flag. The more specific groups you add to the flag itself without adding *everyone* only threatens to alienate people who aren’t a part of the few select groups.
Thing with the progress pride flag is that the trans flag was added to denounce the "lgb without T” and such groups. It was a way to call out infighting, but the flag just keeps getting new stuff because of that and I gotta admit I’m not a fan but I agree very much with the original intent. Because for some people, it does NOT represent the full spectrum, just the part they’re fine with.
>Thing with the progress pride flag is that the trans flag was added to denounce the "lgb without T” and such groups.
That's why I like the Progress Flag. That and I like the brown and black stripes connecting the queer liberation struggle with the liberation struggles of people of color.
But that’s kinda the issue with using it as an umbrella term — you’re automatically applying it to the entire community, including people who don’t want to be called that.
I’ve also been yelled at by younger gay men for using the term in a universal way on social media. I’m just mentioning for people who are not aware.
Personally though I like the ease of use and the option to not have to explain *how* I am queer. It’s also easier to say aloud in conversation.
In a similar way I am disabled, and it is freeing to just say that instead of explaining my diagnoses.
I'm not even a senior (only 38), but even when I was growing up, queer used to be a pretty heavy slur where I was. I'm good with reclaiming it and personally label myself as such, but it can still rub me the wrong way when I hear it in some contexts.
I'm definitely of the opinion LGBTQ+ is the safer one to use in public settings, there's no heavy slur tucked behind that one.
another trans person here- i completely disagree. some people aren’t comfortable being described using queer, while some people prefer it. like a lot of stuff it has complicated history. i think it’s fine to say lgbt or lgbt+
The irony of some queer people here arguing what letters they don’t like… When someone goes through the length of listing every letter they remember, it is always with the intent of inclusivity. Don’t be a dingus and protest that.
https://preview.redd.it/e8vgsu6r8h0d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9784efe7840c0f185fb8ebe0ea33063b48aa0355
They’re natural enemies, like conservatives and leftists. Or centrists and leftist. Or leftists and other leftists. Damned leftists! They ruined the left-wing!
Literally. Instead of fighting nazi punks, like the original intent of the post was, we’re fighting each other over what acronym to use. 🙄 the infighting in the queer community is awful and I hate it
And unfortunately, the only way to put a stop to an instance of infighting is to get involved and risk becoming the infighter. Throughout this entire thread, all i've been doing is trying to get people to stop beating up on 2S people and stop worrying about what is and isn't included on a goddamned acronym.
There are actual nazis actively trying to harm all of us and we're all stuck in this cycle of trying to get our own people to treat eachother with respect.
the infighting in the queer community absolutely sucks and you’re right that it sometimes just takes a person like yourself to shut it down. like to all the people who actually fight online about queer stuff, PLEASE stop taking part in discourse online about pan vs. bi, 2S, NB ppl in the trans community, etc. if you actually care about the queer community and want to fight for something, go out and take part in your local queer community, and help support them in fighting for queer people and our rights to live and be who we are.
Lotta sensitive little right wing flowers showing up in the comments. The irony of whining about being excluded because of your preference to exclude people is real.
Lemme play you fuckers out.
[sad Wagner song]
Hey, I'm a European white, middleclass, straight male in his forties so I'm not discriminated in any way, but I just support anybody that's just expressing the way they feel best about themselves without hurting their fellow person. Can I, like, treat everybody like a valued human being that deserves acceptance and happiness without getting the names right?
Except Nazi's of course. They can just fuck off, preferably to some rock in the middle of the Pacific without any signs of life whatsoever.
Shit the term punk originates with gay and queer prostitution and was taken as a sexual rebellion and turned into so much more, and I’m talking way way back before 77 like proto stages with velvet underground, New York dolls and other acts on both sides of the pond that led to the punk we know today.
https://preview.redd.it/1zhas58nye0d1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15f77ef634962178964a62c922571e99552631b9
Not a battle jacket but id like to think my shirts are in the spirit of them.
Wow this chat is a nightmare. Bigots on the right complaining about their right to be a bigot. Bigots on the “left” debating the fucking acronym and how some letters should not be included. You don’t need to understand, just respect other people. Then a very small minority of non-bigots trying and largely failing to educate our judgmental peers.
Sincerely, a genderqueer disabled asexual (my letters may not “belong” but I think that’s pretty punk)
Reminds me of how some people were complaining and calling Green Day “not punk” because they supported a trans fan. Actual punk is in the long run about making things better and accepting people, not spreading hatred and prejudice
Just gonna say one thing: the hate on 2S isn’t cool. Like imagine a two-spirited indigenous person reading some of these comments. A bunch of ostensibly progressive punks think your identity is a joke, something to be laughed at. Is that really the message we want to be sending to an already extremely marginalized group of people?
2S stands for Two-Spirit, a Native American term that from my limited understanding is often used instead of transgender or nonbinary (I could be wrong).
One of the A's stands for Asexual, the other I'm not sure
Someone posted a screen shot of this on another reddit and they're absolutely furious that someone's "gatekeeping" Punk. Bahah. They are losing it over this post.
I loved it so much i had to find the original and upvote.
Heads up someone posted this on a hate sub r/lookatmyhalo. That whole sub is infested with Nazis and terfs. They love to conflate being punk with being reactionary and accuse us of virtue signaling.
Tl:Dr you pisses off the right people good job.
i don’t have a jacket of my own yet but i was surprised to find out the “main” sub for jackets … doesn’t want any “political” (“ideology”) imagery on user submissions. isn’t that a big part of it? sure, music and related subculture patches too, but anti-establishment slogans and imagery are integral to the origins of these jackets, i’d think
also god full offense but some of the downvoted comments live an entirely different reality. there is nothing beneficial about being “queer”. certainly not to the mainstream (i understand this is a nebulous concept so i’m using it loosely). you’re a curiosity that they can sell targeted products to, at best
Yeah, those assholes over there do not want politics, unless it's nazism - they tolerate it all the time!
Post a patch with anarchist symbol - you go down. Post a patch with swastika - "gOod mUsIc is goOd mUsic"
"2SLGBTQIAA+" - I'm gay and trans and even I don't know what half that stand for because yall keep adding letters
I've been trying to type this for 20 minutes and keep going on a rant - also whys the 2S infront of the L, L always comes first, some lesbian chick is fight you for that spot back haha
Here's a secret: there are a metric fuckload of other letters that could be included in the acronym. The entire point of the queer community is that we're inclusive. Is the acronym useful when it's that long? Not really. I figure that if people include indentities beyond the typical LGBTQ+, that means they felt it was important to include them. Maybe they are, or know somebody who is, one of those identites.
Either way, nobody is requiring you to type out the whole thing. You could just say queer or a shorter version of the acronym with a + on the end.
Yeah I'm not keen on the 2S thing either.
I get it, it's for Two-Spirit indigenous folks to recognise that "they were the first sexual and gender minority" in North America...
But the world is not America and as a British queer woman, it'll never mean anything to me. This opinion has been re-inforced by the fact that of all the folks I've seen claiming to be 2S on the internet... Not a single one of them was actually indigenous and that seems horribly offensive to Native American culture to me.
If someone wants to correct that, please go ahead and educate me but I'm yet to see anything that makes putting 2S in the LGBTQ a valid idea.
>But the world is not America and as a British queer woman, it'll never mean anything to me.
It may be worth noting that the world is not Britain, too. If you lived in Minnesota or Manitoba it might mean more. Not to say that the ever-growing acronyms used to denote queer identity can't come under critique, but I'm not sure "it doesn't apply to me, specifically" is the route to take here. For some people I know, this term is very real and very, very meaningful.
Or, and hear me out here, OP is American and so it is important context for them.
No one is forcing you to use 2S in the acronym, but complaining when someone else does is just silly.
>It may be worth noting that the world is not Britain, too.
I know, and I agree! My issue is with the constant shifting of the basic LGBTQ+ acronym, and in particular, placing a very localisation-specific identity not just in the letters themselves (as in, not covered by +) but at the very start. I have absolutely no issue with embracing those of the 2-Spirit identity. I would have the same issue if this was with an identity that only resonated with British people, being pushed to be a huge part of the acronym.
Nobody is forcing you to use the full acronym. The entire point of the acronym is to be inclusive. You can just say queer or add a '+' at the end of wherever you want to stop typing the acronym.
You're getting too wrapped up in "the official acronym" and ignorning that it's simply a tool for people to use. Guess what? Even the longest form of the acronym on this thread doesn't include every letter or identity that could be included. It's not our job to make a case for or against. It's our job to be accepting of people regardless of their identity. Getting twisted up about what should and shouldn't be a part of an acronym is classic leftist infighting and it is not helpful to anybody.
“It’ll never mean anything to me”
But you can empathize with the plight of the indigenous peoples right?
I’m not queer, disabled, addicted, or oppressed but I can empathize with those groups and offer my support. Your statement seems very counterintuitive to the ethos of being punk. You can disagree with some people’s use or adoption of the “2S” label but you can’t dismiss it as not important.
You don't get to decide the validity of any identity. The entire point of the LGBTQ+ community is that we're inclusive of people even if we don't understand them. Who is the judge of what belongs in the acronym? What gives them the right to make that decision? The answer is nobody and nothing. If somebody includes an identity when typing out the acronym, it's because they wanted to include it. You certainly aren't required to. You can type out lgbtq+ or just say queer.
Instead, you decided to talk shit about 2S people based only on what you've seen on the internet.
Oh no, someone posted something anti-fascist on an anti-fascist subreddit! Now the revolution is doomed to fail because as we all know posting something on the internet requires 100% concentration, meaning they cant *possibly* post this stuff and also be active irl
2 spirit, I’m hoping you know what LGBTQ is if you’re a queer guy, I is intersex, AA is aromantic/asexual/agender (AFAIK) and the + is for those not covered by that. Hope this helps. :)
I 100% agree with the sentiment.
But all punks are self-proclaimed. There is no objective criteria for a diagnosis of punk, nor is there an accredited board of senior punks who grant the title.
But yeah… Nazi punks don’t even understand what the term means.
"B-BUT DONALD TRUMP IS PUNK" BITCH WHEN THE FUCK DID BEING A RICH PEICE OF SHIT BILLIONAIRE BECOME PUNK?
i have never heard anybody say trump was punk
Idk one person on r/punk showed a screenshot of someone saying "greenday needs to stop being political" but they also posted something that said vote trump make America punk rock again. Probably saying that trump is punk rock or some shit
I think I understand what they're getting at. (And it's very stupid.) Fascism is an ultranationalist ideology or tendency. With as much as MAGA Nazis cry about queer folks, brown people, "communists", and foreigners, you'd be forgiven for forgetting the other big thing that Trumpos are anxious about, which is the (for now) imaginary decline of America as a superpower. Despite Barack Obama largely continuing and expanding the foreign policy doctrines of George W. Bush, in conservative world he and his administration were "weak" and America was "weak" while he was in office. He and the Democratic Party betrayed the military in ways that conservatives generally fail to articulate because they never happened. Funding increased and the war machine ground on. The only things they can point to are things like the end of the bans on openly same-sex-attracted and transgender people, things only bigots would have a problem with. The average conservative or liberal has no idea how much the American economy benefits from imperialism and neocolonialism, so Trumpers in particularly don't see relatively cheap products from the Global South as evidence of America's continuing dominance in much of the world; to them, the fact that Russia, China, Iran, or Venezuela can just *say* anything bad about America without getting nuked or invaded is evidence of how far America has supposedly fallen. To them, geopolitics is a school playground where the biggest kid wins — and *deserves* to win — and any resistance can and should be overcome by being louder and punching harder. In the mind of Trump's base, he is the bigger, louder kid (and possibly the literal Messiah), the one who is going to restore America to its "lost" place at the head of the international table and realize the nation's historic destiny as the world's moral guiding light by bullying the rest of the planet into subservience. So fascist "punk" posers in America essentially buy into the old stereotype of what a punk is: a loud, needlessly aggressive, antisocial dick who throws their weigh around just because they can. Through that deeply idiotic lens, Trump is very punk.
Trump is punk AF. I hear he shits himself even more than GG Allin.
Some comments further down arguing that being far right is actually the new punk. Also seeing a lot of "terf is the new punk" bullshit. Anyone who genuinely thinks trans people are "establishment" in any way needs to get their fucking heads checked.
It used to be a narrative back when he first became president. A bunch of alt right trying to claim he was the 'real' punk for overturning the system, surprising some folk with his win, and draining swamp yadda yadda. The sad thing is, right wingers will always see punk as nothing more than a change in any system, as they literally can't understand fighting oppression.
I've seen many Gen-X MAGA saying MAGA is punk. It's nuts.
Yes! 🤘 Nazi punks fuck off!
Nazi metalheads too! Fuck the fascists!
All the way off!
And keep fucking off forever.
But then what else could we fill our days bitching about?
Don't know but I'm game to find out
The only type of gatekeeping I support 🤘
[Nazi goths can fuck right off too](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y-_s0I98Pc).
This needs more upvotes. I've had an INSANE amount of goths be racist and antisemitic to me in the past few years to the point where I didn't want anything to do with the goth community anymore. I don't know how they all claim to be inclusive yet treat me weird for being Filipino.
Noooo! that's so bullshit!! I promise we're not all like that, a lot of us really don't care as long as your nice <3 ;-; Also FUCK NAZI'S
I got invited to an alternative goth subreddit because someone didn't like the main one's rules. When I had a look, they considered the statement "trans women are women" as a radical belief and banned it
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Damn straight. A Nazi can decide to stop being a Nazi and we antifascists will be more than willing not just to to let them go on in peace once they stop being an active danger, but to help aim them at therapy and exit programs. A black person and a queer person cannot stop being what they are. The Nazi will only be satisfied with their deaths.
i agree with this post!! also someone posted this on r/blackmetalcringe i feel like we should have a black metal cringe cringe subreddit now lol
What we need is a black metal circle jerk sub
theres a subreddit called that but it has one member and no posts, we have r/burzum but thats more focused on burzum and mayhem
well r/BlackMetalCringe did not like that
i sure hope they didnt like it, they call everyone and everything cringe and the second you criticize them, even if its the most constructive criticism, they go batshit insane lol
Lmao they don’t like anything by the seems of it
except nsbm bands, only for the riffs though /s
That would just be an exact copy of blackmetalcringe.
i mainly meant that comment as a joke, the people on r/blackmetalcringe seriously do suck though
Indeed. As a fan of black metal, I make it a point to avoid places where fans of black metal gather. There are plenty of cool individual black metal fans, but when they gather, the nazis really come out of the woodwork.
seriously!!! black metal is one of my favorite genres but i cannot stand the fanbase. theyre all either nazis or people who think being a nazi is completely fine.
There are, thankfully, explicitly anti-fascist black metal labels and communities forming, but good god even those can be a bit rough. You still get a lot of nazi trolls who infiltrate and even the earnest people can be reactionary towards a lot of stuff. And it really sucks avoiding bm shows because of the possible presence of nazis. I just want to enjoy music without having to fear being assaulted.
https://antifascistblackmetalnetwork.bandcamp.com/album/black-metal-ist-klassenkrieg
>They're all either nazis or people who think being a nazi is completely fine. So... they're nazis or they're nazis.
yeah pretty much, most people just dont understand that tolerating a nazi is the same thing as being one.
Even the guy who wrote Lords of Chaos is a Nazi.
Unless people are being assholes or spreading hate j really just hate people being assholes because something they deemed "cringe" like fuck off lol let ppl do what they want
Ooh time to wade through and report some bigots.
Holy shit what a sludgy cesspool. People actually use that sub? They all sound like caricatures of 2016 chuds lmfao
>They all sound like caricatures of 2016 chuds Yeah, that'll happen when one decides that personal growth is gay.
Yeah they're obsessed with anything antifascist... and then when you call them out they go "looks like someone's upset" Like they just mega owned us
i know!! also they get mad when they get criticized for wearing nsbm patches. theyre total assholes and excuse it by saying black metal is meant to be hateful and whine when theyre called out for being assholes. that subreddit is everything i hate about black metal fans lol. also i hate people who dislike rabm because its "too political" and then like nsbm.
Thats battlejackets, if you don't have nsbm patches on your jacket then it's "loW qUaLiTy GaRbAgE"
Punks cannot be Nazis. They are conceptually incongruous. OP is correct. ☑️
Correct. I think use of imagery to be edgy 40 years ago, combined with FSU and the like stealing the crossed hammers after winning literal gang wars may have muddied the waters, but they're ideologically opposed. I'd argue even more so than other groups, punks can't be nazis. SHARP movement is a thing, but otherwise fuck no.
Can there possibly be anything LESS punk than being a bootlicker for authoritarian bigots? Fascism is the opposite of punk.
The real punk is where you prostrate yourself completely before the worst authority figures so as best to lick their boots. /s
Trans person here- you can just say queer
Yeah. I’m a native queer, I’m kinda not super stoked about the 2S being included in the name. I think it encourages people to appropriate two spirit. I’m usually not super hung up on cultural appropriation, I wanna share all our cool stuff with everyone. It’s just that if you’re not native, you don’t fit the criteria for two spirit.
My partner is native and trans and he also really doesn’t like the 2S inclusion for the same reasons you just laid out. Glad this was said.
at this point i just use queer when talking about the lgbtq community, all the extra letters and stuff makes it difficult aodnsisjsidh
I just say my daughter's gay. She'll add, "Whelp, yep." My sister's a frenetically antisocial and asexual old cat woman. Doesn't need a letter, just "Yeah, she doesn't like to go out much." I'm all for it, because frankly I don't care. If your personality resolves around hurting or shaming others rather than being happy and wanting to see others vent and have fun too, I'm going full on Henry Rollins.
that’s so funny. “she doesn’t like to go out much” is going to be a new code for ace people lmfao
The more you add the more people you’re specifically excluding. I feel the same way about the progress flag. The original pride flag is a rainbow because it represents *the full spectrum*. It was never specifically a homosexual male pride flag. The more specific groups you add to the flag itself without adding *everyone* only threatens to alienate people who aren’t a part of the few select groups.
Thing with the progress pride flag is that the trans flag was added to denounce the "lgb without T” and such groups. It was a way to call out infighting, but the flag just keeps getting new stuff because of that and I gotta admit I’m not a fan but I agree very much with the original intent. Because for some people, it does NOT represent the full spectrum, just the part they’re fine with.
Yeah i get that, im trans it just kinda sucks that we just kinda let them have it
Indeed it definitely sucks balls :(
>Thing with the progress pride flag is that the trans flag was added to denounce the "lgb without T” and such groups. That's why I like the Progress Flag. That and I like the brown and black stripes connecting the queer liberation struggle with the liberation struggles of people of color.
The irony is that there are MLM and Gay men flags. (I really like queer vexillology).
I quite like the colors on the gay men flag
Me too. I'm big on cold colors.
Today I learned a new word. Thank you.
yes! i feel like the original flag represented everyone without including every color yknow
I wish they would put the pink back for love
Thats what I was saying, like I'm trans too, lets NOT - my brain hurts
I dunno, I work with seniors and many of them are not on board with being called queer.
I mean in those cases, don't. Language isn't really all that universal
But that’s kinda the issue with using it as an umbrella term — you’re automatically applying it to the entire community, including people who don’t want to be called that.
I’ve also been yelled at by younger gay men for using the term in a universal way on social media. I’m just mentioning for people who are not aware. Personally though I like the ease of use and the option to not have to explain *how* I am queer. It’s also easier to say aloud in conversation. In a similar way I am disabled, and it is freeing to just say that instead of explaining my diagnoses.
I'm not even a senior (only 38), but even when I was growing up, queer used to be a pretty heavy slur where I was. I'm good with reclaiming it and personally label myself as such, but it can still rub me the wrong way when I hear it in some contexts. I'm definitely of the opinion LGBTQ+ is the safer one to use in public settings, there's no heavy slur tucked behind that one.
another trans person here- i completely disagree. some people aren’t comfortable being described using queer, while some people prefer it. like a lot of stuff it has complicated history. i think it’s fine to say lgbt or lgbt+
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To comment on a 14 day old post: might I suggest GRSM
As a traditional skinhead/ punk, i say a big FUCK YOU!!!! to all nazi’s 🖕🏻
The only thing I hate more than god is nazis.
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Nazis win the hate race for me; cannot be bothered to hate an imaginary sky wizard. 😉
Eyehategod?
The irony of some queer people here arguing what letters they don’t like… When someone goes through the length of listing every letter they remember, it is always with the intent of inclusivity. Don’t be a dingus and protest that.
Is it really a leftist sub without leftist infighting though
So true 🫠
https://preview.redd.it/e8vgsu6r8h0d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9784efe7840c0f185fb8ebe0ea33063b48aa0355 They’re natural enemies, like conservatives and leftists. Or centrists and leftist. Or leftists and other leftists. Damned leftists! They ruined the left-wing!
Literally. Instead of fighting nazi punks, like the original intent of the post was, we’re fighting each other over what acronym to use. 🙄 the infighting in the queer community is awful and I hate it
And unfortunately, the only way to put a stop to an instance of infighting is to get involved and risk becoming the infighter. Throughout this entire thread, all i've been doing is trying to get people to stop beating up on 2S people and stop worrying about what is and isn't included on a goddamned acronym. There are actual nazis actively trying to harm all of us and we're all stuck in this cycle of trying to get our own people to treat eachother with respect.
the infighting in the queer community absolutely sucks and you’re right that it sometimes just takes a person like yourself to shut it down. like to all the people who actually fight online about queer stuff, PLEASE stop taking part in discourse online about pan vs. bi, 2S, NB ppl in the trans community, etc. if you actually care about the queer community and want to fight for something, go out and take part in your local queer community, and help support them in fighting for queer people and our rights to live and be who we are.
Make Nazi Punks Scared Again!
Lotta sensitive little right wing flowers showing up in the comments. The irony of whining about being excluded because of your preference to exclude people is real. Lemme play you fuckers out. [sad Wagner song]
\[Sounds of Hitler ordering non-existent military units around while Berlin falls\]
[sound of muffled Walther P-38] I love soundscapes.
I wish someone would make a new updated version called Maga Punks Fuck Off
All Nazis should follow their leader like the scum they are!
Hey, I'm a European white, middleclass, straight male in his forties so I'm not discriminated in any way, but I just support anybody that's just expressing the way they feel best about themselves without hurting their fellow person. Can I, like, treat everybody like a valued human being that deserves acceptance and happiness without getting the names right? Except Nazi's of course. They can just fuck off, preferably to some rock in the middle of the Pacific without any signs of life whatsoever.
Shit the term punk originates with gay and queer prostitution and was taken as a sexual rebellion and turned into so much more, and I’m talking way way back before 77 like proto stages with velvet underground, New York dolls and other acts on both sides of the pond that led to the punk we know today.
I'm ace. People can use whatever term they want. Don't think that was the point of the post.
Hell yeah that’s so real of you
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This needs to be said. I’m tired of seeing Nazi shit in r/battlejackets and the mods being ok with it.
https://preview.redd.it/1zhas58nye0d1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15f77ef634962178964a62c922571e99552631b9 Not a battle jacket but id like to think my shirts are in the spirit of them.
Hell yeah!
Sharps all day
Agreed. 100%. I don't like the swears, but the sentiment is spot on. Nazi punks can frick off. They have no place in our community.
Hell yeah Nazi punks fuck off! Damm a Dead Kennedy’s reference was not on my Tuesday morning bingo card, but I’ll take it!
Wow this chat is a nightmare. Bigots on the right complaining about their right to be a bigot. Bigots on the “left” debating the fucking acronym and how some letters should not be included. You don’t need to understand, just respect other people. Then a very small minority of non-bigots trying and largely failing to educate our judgmental peers. Sincerely, a genderqueer disabled asexual (my letters may not “belong” but I think that’s pretty punk)
🙏🙏
Fuck all the way off into the stratosphere to never be heard from again
Reminds me of how some people were complaining and calling Green Day “not punk” because they supported a trans fan. Actual punk is in the long run about making things better and accepting people, not spreading hatred and prejudice
Fuck off is too light, reform or die.
Just gonna say one thing: the hate on 2S isn’t cool. Like imagine a two-spirited indigenous person reading some of these comments. A bunch of ostensibly progressive punks think your identity is a joke, something to be laughed at. Is that really the message we want to be sending to an already extremely marginalized group of people?
People should educate themselves about queer people! But go ahead and stop once im accepted, no need to educate yourselves anymore thx 👍
So it’s just r/usdefaultism again
🤘🏼
This is so dreamybull coded!!!
Agreed 👍
"2SLGBTQIAA+ community" What do the 2S and AA stand for?
2S stands for Two-Spirit, a Native American term that from my limited understanding is often used instead of transgender or nonbinary (I could be wrong). One of the A's stands for Asexual, the other I'm not sure
Aromantic, I think.
Makes sense
Nazis don't get to call themselves punk imo
Punch all Nazis 👊🏽
Fuck yeah!! 🤘
Someone posted a screen shot of this on another reddit and they're absolutely furious that someone's "gatekeeping" Punk. Bahah. They are losing it over this post. I loved it so much i had to find the original and upvote.
https://preview.redd.it/zstpyepiij0d1.png?width=1620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=43dd59364248c190a906c29439bb327aa3c27f72
I…I think I just fell in love. On Reddit.
Get out and vote. Your vote counts
Someone posted this in r/LookatMyHalo because he didn’t appreciate Nazis being portrayed as the bad guys 💀
We should ban anyone who posts in places like r/conservative
Autistic punks are lit too. But yeah fuck nazis and pigs
Heads up someone posted this on a hate sub r/lookatmyhalo. That whole sub is infested with Nazis and terfs. They love to conflate being punk with being reactionary and accuse us of virtue signaling. Tl:Dr you pisses off the right people good job.
Whole lotta buzz words in this lmao
“Swastikas and Klan robes. Sexist, racist homophobes. Aryan Nations and Hammerskins, You can wear my nuts on your Nazi chins”
i don’t have a jacket of my own yet but i was surprised to find out the “main” sub for jackets … doesn’t want any “political” (“ideology”) imagery on user submissions. isn’t that a big part of it? sure, music and related subculture patches too, but anti-establishment slogans and imagery are integral to the origins of these jackets, i’d think also god full offense but some of the downvoted comments live an entirely different reality. there is nothing beneficial about being “queer”. certainly not to the mainstream (i understand this is a nebulous concept so i’m using it loosely). you’re a curiosity that they can sell targeted products to, at best
Yeah, those assholes over there do not want politics, unless it's nazism - they tolerate it all the time! Post a patch with anarchist symbol - you go down. Post a patch with swastika - "gOod mUsIc is goOd mUsic"
"2SLGBTQIAA+" - I'm gay and trans and even I don't know what half that stand for because yall keep adding letters I've been trying to type this for 20 minutes and keep going on a rant - also whys the 2S infront of the L, L always comes first, some lesbian chick is fight you for that spot back haha
Here's a secret: there are a metric fuckload of other letters that could be included in the acronym. The entire point of the queer community is that we're inclusive. Is the acronym useful when it's that long? Not really. I figure that if people include indentities beyond the typical LGBTQ+, that means they felt it was important to include them. Maybe they are, or know somebody who is, one of those identites. Either way, nobody is requiring you to type out the whole thing. You could just say queer or a shorter version of the acronym with a + on the end.
Yeah I'm not keen on the 2S thing either. I get it, it's for Two-Spirit indigenous folks to recognise that "they were the first sexual and gender minority" in North America... But the world is not America and as a British queer woman, it'll never mean anything to me. This opinion has been re-inforced by the fact that of all the folks I've seen claiming to be 2S on the internet... Not a single one of them was actually indigenous and that seems horribly offensive to Native American culture to me. If someone wants to correct that, please go ahead and educate me but I'm yet to see anything that makes putting 2S in the LGBTQ a valid idea.
>But the world is not America and as a British queer woman, it'll never mean anything to me. It may be worth noting that the world is not Britain, too. If you lived in Minnesota or Manitoba it might mean more. Not to say that the ever-growing acronyms used to denote queer identity can't come under critique, but I'm not sure "it doesn't apply to me, specifically" is the route to take here. For some people I know, this term is very real and very, very meaningful.
2S is limited to north america, the rest is worldwide. This just feels like another case of American defaultism/centrism.
Or, and hear me out here, OP is American and so it is important context for them. No one is forcing you to use 2S in the acronym, but complaining when someone else does is just silly.
>It may be worth noting that the world is not Britain, too. I know, and I agree! My issue is with the constant shifting of the basic LGBTQ+ acronym, and in particular, placing a very localisation-specific identity not just in the letters themselves (as in, not covered by +) but at the very start. I have absolutely no issue with embracing those of the 2-Spirit identity. I would have the same issue if this was with an identity that only resonated with British people, being pushed to be a huge part of the acronym.
Nobody is forcing you to use the full acronym. The entire point of the acronym is to be inclusive. You can just say queer or add a '+' at the end of wherever you want to stop typing the acronym. You're getting too wrapped up in "the official acronym" and ignorning that it's simply a tool for people to use. Guess what? Even the longest form of the acronym on this thread doesn't include every letter or identity that could be included. It's not our job to make a case for or against. It's our job to be accepting of people regardless of their identity. Getting twisted up about what should and shouldn't be a part of an acronym is classic leftist infighting and it is not helpful to anybody.
“It’ll never mean anything to me” But you can empathize with the plight of the indigenous peoples right? I’m not queer, disabled, addicted, or oppressed but I can empathize with those groups and offer my support. Your statement seems very counterintuitive to the ethos of being punk. You can disagree with some people’s use or adoption of the “2S” label but you can’t dismiss it as not important.
You don't get to decide the validity of any identity. The entire point of the LGBTQ+ community is that we're inclusive of people even if we don't understand them. Who is the judge of what belongs in the acronym? What gives them the right to make that decision? The answer is nobody and nothing. If somebody includes an identity when typing out the acronym, it's because they wanted to include it. You certainly aren't required to. You can type out lgbtq+ or just say queer. Instead, you decided to talk shit about 2S people based only on what you've seen on the internet.
Out of curiosity, why does the L always come first?
Nazi punks can fuck the hell off!
This 💯
🤘🤘🤘
Punching nazis has never gone out of style.
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Fuck Zionism!!
Fuck em! Queer 4 life! 🌈💜
Punk is inherently anti-bootlicker. Something the right can't seem to grasp.
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Man, you guys are losers.
lol cope more all the good ones are nazis sadly, separate the art from the artist
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Oh no, someone posted something anti-fascist on an anti-fascist subreddit! Now the revolution is doomed to fail because as we all know posting something on the internet requires 100% concentration, meaning they cant *possibly* post this stuff and also be active irl
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Queer guy here. Wtf do all those letters even mean. And Nazi punks can shove it
2 spirit, I’m hoping you know what LGBTQ is if you’re a queer guy, I is intersex, AA is aromantic/asexual/agender (AFAIK) and the + is for those not covered by that. Hope this helps. :)
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Ah yes, renowned non-douchebag, Johnny Rotten.
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Your comment was removed because you're being a dick. Repeated removals or the most serious offences will result in a ban from the Subreddit.
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Could you please elaborate on recent events? Looks like I am uniformed 😪
Alot of right wingers (fascist supporters, MAGA, Nazi’s) lately think they’re ‘punk’
[Nazi Punks Fuck Off](https://youtu.be/iyc62g7YQM0?si=duEaoo7lNTNPWVXu)
I completely agree with the post And they left out one major Fuck off .. All real punks hate the Oppressive Government !
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Is that a reference from Green Room (2015) ?
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https://youtu.be/yy-SiZSlmhI?si=JtdeJwPrYSmc9jCT
https://preview.redd.it/lovm6k7f3q0d1.png?width=1169&format=png&auto=webp&s=77a6b05a50cf5b43d68ff3175c78bf6c36b978e3
Fuck any form of authoritarianism, theocracy, communism, monarchy, etc…
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Thank you. I hate that this is what 2024 is now.
I 100% agree with the sentiment. But all punks are self-proclaimed. There is no objective criteria for a diagnosis of punk, nor is there an accredited board of senior punks who grant the title. But yeah… Nazi punks don’t even understand what the term means.
Good thing I'm not a punk 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
nazi punks fuck off!!