Let me guess:
* Temporary only
* No path to permanent residency or citizenship
* Exploitative working conditions with little/no means to report mistreatment
I might not have the complete picture here but isn't PR or naturalization relatively easy in japan in terms of developed nations? In terms of requirements?
The problem is integrating them into society, not providing a path to residency right?
That makes sense, most immigrants in japan and blue collar workers from developing nations.
Do blue collar worker's naturalization attempts get rejected often?
Would this still be more attractive than China? Would it make any dent at all in their population issues? I’d think it would. Any relaxing of policy towards immigration will help. Will it solve their problems entirely? No
Edit:sp
All the subreddits that deal with Asian countries are exceptionally toxic and US-centric. The only one with any sense of positivity is the Korean ones and that also happens to be the most Americanised country in Asia.
Cant even count how many times I've seen people talk about how the average salary in [insert Asian country] is not livable in the US because ofc every country has the same cost of living
Well, yeah. That's a given.
But complaining about "westerners arguing" on a website designed by and for westerners is kind of silly.
Japanese subreddit are filled with westerners because English-speaking Japanese users such as you and I are in short supply.
The worst kind of immigration, of course. Guest workers on fixed term visas and menial salaries where the manpower agency takes over half their pay. Even Toyota is shipping in hundreds of Indians in waves to toil in their factories. Japan has never lost its colonial attitude to the rest of Asia.
Just in Asia, Korea, Singapore, China, Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, Dubai, etc all have similar systems where it's very difficult/impossible for many catagories of guest workers to ever gain permanent residency. It's more a wealthy country thing than a Japan only thing.
Not that it makes it right of course
I think Japan is actually a good destination for Indians. It's more that the jobs that a lot of these Chinese, South East Asians and South Asians do tend to be low income DDD jobs that Japanese look down on.
There are plenty of white collar and even billionaire Indian residents of Dubai, a few have even been ‘awarded’ citizenship (the founder of Lulu Hypermarket). Impossible to imagine for Japan.
Quick search reveals that only about half a million people have been naturalized as Japanese citizens between 1868 and 2015, the vast majority I expect though marriages. There is a selection bias here on this sub when people talk anecdotally.
Getting Japanese citizenship seems about as hard as getting Gulf citizenship, not impossible but deeply prohibitive. You could get it quicker and easier anywhere else almost, including places like Singapore.
Citizenship is easier in Japan than Dubai. The key difference is that Japan has some of the highest income taxes in the world and is culturally against excessive displays of wealth, whereas Dubai is a tax haven and easy to hide lots of corrupt money. Most Indians are basically treated like dirt in Dubai.
that is bascally what canada is doing right now. It raises the value of housing, and students are forced to work low paying jobs to pay rent and tuition.
Actually a lot of students get turned away PR. It is not as easy as you think anymore. Many students do end up doing low wage work and get their work permits denied once they finished school
[https://youtu.be/\_hmI9jepBl8?t=389](https://youtu.be/_hmI9jepBl8?t=389)
I don’t get that. I lived there 6 years and friends that stayed there became Japanese quite easily, and got the permanent residence also quite easily. Way more easy than the Us
That’s my point people here act as if Japan is an outlier that should accept immigrants like the US did in the 1920s. That just doesn’t happen anymore. If you are a low skilled immigrant you are going to have a hard time for a permanent visa regardless of where you live
Yeah, the problem with Japan isn't necessarily the laws on the books. It's the overall support from the community. Second language support, welcoming non-Japanese attitudes to the workforce, etc. It's*getting* better, but dubious if it's doing so at a rate that'll make a dent.
Plus with wages here they're not very competitive with the rest of the developed world. They basically make it so you either have to love Japan or have no other destination to want to stay here.
The government offers free Japanese classes you can go to. No one here is a non-English speaking immigrant in an English country, but I think it's hard in every country unless there's a large population of people who speak your language there. English speakers are too used to seeing their language in every country so they're really sensitive to not being accommodated while that's completely normal when traveling as someone that doesn't speak English.
If our position is that English should be the global language and we should all push everyone to have English versions of their menus, websites, etc, then that's fine but let's not act as though it's unaccommodating only when it's English isn't present (since it's pretty hard to live only understanding Japanese in the US as well).
they'll have to adapt soon. The population is aging. Its sounds somewhat radical, but perhaps English could be used as a language to help immigrants become more settled into Japan. Japanese is hard to learn, and the country will need the labor.
None whatsoever, I met friends with worse Japanese than me (I have JLPt 2) and had no issue.
Not gonna lie though, to navigate the process you will probably need some decent Japanese or a translator, but is not really written anywhere
I think Canada will regret it. The people I was with actually told me that they came to Canada and to universities just for citizenship and to open businesses. The money is flowing in and out. They will own Canada pretty soon.
Can you name a developed country that isn't doing this? There's definitely a massive political push to import as many immigrants into developed nations as possible.
Japan is generally quite friendly towards foreigners from Asia (and people forget that Japan has had contact with East Asia and South Asia for millennia). I think some of the key issues are that most these people aren't culturally integrated into Japanese culture (and it is the same everywhere with expats who have no cultural understanding for the local country) and tend to be financially poor. But otherwise immigrants from East Asia and South Asia are usually welcomed in Japan.
This kind of comment is the real racist one. Temperoal visas are done by two-parties' consent and you make it sound like people from devloping countries can't even figure out their lives by theirselves. Yes there are some issues in the process which creates exploitation but that's another story and has nothing to do with the type of visa itself.
But hey western countries import so many illegal / undocumented immigrants granted you are black or your are from middle east while us asian who have working skills and degrees have such a hard time entering your countries. Liberals are more racist then the concervatives in this regard because at least they are looking at who we are and where we come from. But you liberals the real racist/colonist think you are the saviour of those poor countries which you effectively create a black market of human traffics just to drain out specifically adult males.
I feel like it's not even that Japan is anything special. It's just Japan is a working example of how things should be done in some areas where your hypocrisy exposes.
> People act like Japan is heaven and I've never been but
Bro, I don’t think you should comment on Japanese society if you’ve never been. It has its flaws like most countries
> Shitty hotels with a whole bunch of rules is a prime example.
These exists everywhere.
Immigration is just not popular in Japan and there’s been negative reports in Japan about how immigrants are treated
I guess thats what you get when 50% of the nation is +60.
Japan is in for some serious hurt if they dont start to allow foriegn workers with a path to integration.
Immigration won't solve it unfortunately. It'll help, but it's basically a temporary bandaid instead of dealing with the actual issues.
Population decline is inevitable at this point for most high income nations, japan is just the first one there.
You can however alleviate the effects by various methods. Immigration is one, but improving working conditions, wages and improving child raising circumstances are far higher priorities.
I'm in info sec and see postings for months looking for a bilingual middle level security analyst for 8m yen. Goof luck with that. You'll need to double it minimum.
Yup. In these threads, people tend to mix up blue collar jobs and white collar jobs, but those are two different worlds.
I assume the primary focus for Kishida will be increasing staff for industries like restaurants, hotels, and factories. A number of businesses have already closed due to the lack of staff in these industries.
It's a win for white collar workers, but not for native blue collar workers.
This is a historic opportunity to negotiate wages and benefits. You can leverage the scarcity to make big gains. Added competition from immigrants doesn't help.
I don’t have firsthand experience, so I’m curious about the various difficulties. As an outsider who has considered and researched moving to Japan, it looks way easier than most EU countries. I score 85pts for the HSP visa, which means PR eligibility in 1 to 3 years; also no language requirement….
Meanwhile, many EU countries have rigid requirements for PR (language, character assessment, etc), and even getting a work visa in the first place requires a Labor Market Test proving they can’t find a suitable candidate from within the EEA/EU.
I have a master degree and I know Japanese well. Japan is so much easier for me to immigrate lol. Literal every non-English native countries import low skill workers and expect them to NOT integrate and apparently for you guys this is the right way.
Tell me how many immigrants who respect the cultures and the languages when it comes to Frence and Germany? Tell me how many foreigners "willing" to go to those countries because they like the countries by its nature?
Btw so much denial of reality and calling out anyone with a different opinion.
There is a reason why there is a surge of far-right in Europe. People have to resort to another bunch of frenzies to ask for someone who dares to speak even a fraction of true.
Even as a Japanese citizen. I still prefer to work in the US. One big thing they can do is open up dial citizenship between US and Japan as well, that alone will bring in a lot of young people… Its frustrating that they can’t do immigration right, they can’t even do immigration of their own naturalized citizens right. Smh. There are many companies I would Work for in the Japan office that operate in both countries…
Unless they can magic more *Japanese* workers out of a hat, no one is going to be happy. More immigrants mean unhappy public, unhappy government and probably unhappy immigrants once they realize they're being exploited (because of course they will be).
I don’t get all of the shit on Visas. I had plenty of friends who stayed there after their masters/PhD and now have permanent residency or became citizens.
If you want an easy immigration path for low skilled workers, good luck finding that anywhere in the world.
In my experience is way more easy to get a “green card” in Japan than the US
Welcome developing country workers! The infinite is possible if you work for 800 yen an hour. Also don’t ask about permanent residence… it’s a silly thing.
problem is that it is almost impossible to find jobs without japanese language skills, even in IT of FIN
I am sure lot of skilled people would like to experience working in Japan but there is no chance of getting a job
>problem is that it is almost impossible to find jobs without japanese language skills
It's like this in many monolingual countries, though.
Good luck finding a non-labor job in the U.S., Britain, Australia, etc. without speaking English.
Even good labour jobs are difficult to come across. My industry is 冷機工業/空調 (refrigeration/hvac) without English and in my country.
However in Japan to even score a job with 海外事業 in blue collar work you still need excellent Japanese. For example I’ve applied multiple times to Trane JP with zero success due to my Japanese not being sufficient, however I hold the highest certified license in Canada with over 6 years experience.
I even have government transcripts showing over 7200 working hours (as of 2021) recorded but this still doesn’t give me any exception due to the fact the vast majority of Japan rarely uses English internally.
Haha hell I’ve even been turned down twice for jobs that require native English to deal with native clients (tour guide and security) but due to my Japanese not having fluency 🙅♂️🤷♂️
It’s true - I’ve been here just over a year, I go through phases of cramming, JLPT focus, immersion, and real time scenario.
Learning a language is a marathon not a sprint sort of skill. Meaning I’m not expecting to be fluent that fast and will deal with the trouble that come along with it as they do. All in good time
well the difference is that english is world business language
you can work in Germany, in Italy, in Argentina, in Pakistan or wherever and as long as you work for international company the chances are high your daily office language will be english. and english is "everywhere" today. in tv, in music, games, advertising etc. very easily accessible.
that is not really the case in Japan and japanese language.
I did an interview few months back for one international company with HQ in japan (they do medical and optical technology) and hiring manager in Europe told me that part of my stakeholders will be in japan and lot of them dont have good english. so there will be translator present during meetings. I was surprised by this. I have never seen anything like that before.
Because, once again, you're in a monolingual island nation with controlled immigration.
The average person doesn't speak anything other than Japanese.
Learn Japanese to find the best jobs in a country where everyone, you know, speaks Japanese.
His point is that Japanese business is outdated compared to other non-English speaking countries. For example, some of the best jobs in Denmark are English speaking because they want to be able to hire from the entire world.
But you’re right, for practical reasons you should learn Japanese if you want a job in Japan. However, this thread is about Japan _needing_ more immigrants, and like the big Danish companies who need the best, limiting to a local language only is going to make that harder for those companies.
If you have IT skills, I could work as your agent to find you *a* job in Japan with a visa attached without me ever working in that field before.
I can't guarantee it's a good company or the salary is great, but I can get you in the door.
From my experience, these fields need high levels of English to do the actual work/study, but only need Japanese if the people managing it don't understand English. This should be considered a red flag and to steer away from in the coming future.
Do you mean "pilot" as in flying planes? (you never know with the current vocab (what the hell is an engineer these days?))
I can network you into a flying club based in Nagoya. After that you need to prove what you can do.
I worked for a very short time as a headhunter with dismal results because I didn't like what I saw.
Really, all I can do to help you is to get you a visa to stay here from a black company. You can then quit and have whatever the visa immigration gave you to find something more preferable, and then hopefully your dream job.
Remember, your visa is not attached to your company. Every time you have to extend your visa, put down 5 years.
I've found virtually no mid level cybersecurity gigs on the risk side looking for English speakers. Gotta write and speak bilingual fluently. I guess I'll sit on DOD jobs here forever haha
you know that IT jobs have many roles not only developers right?
I did spend maybe one afternoon, just out of curiosity looking at LinkedIn. Lot of advertising in english but almost every job required some level of japanese.
Factory workers/ waiters/ road workers…crumbling infrastructure due to shrinking workforce because Japanese are not having kids. Guarantee the “immigration” will mostly be temporary work. They want the labor not the people.
Not sure why you are getting downvoted. We(I am living in Sweden) have failed miserably when it comes to help immigrants to assimilate into our society.
> Because he’s making a racist argument about « loss of culture/identity »
Not sure why this is “racist.”
A loss of culture/identity is tragic and has happened before
I live in the US and I’ve traveled to Hawaii many times (have family there). A lot of Native Americans and Native Hawaiians here cannot speak their ancestral language
Why you describe is legitimate. What the person is referring to is absolutely not that and, again, a particular kind of dog whistle to appeal to racists.
And what do you know? I'm French too, and yes, immigration has been quite a failure. Just look at the prison population and criminal rates (half of the crimes are committed by strangers in Paris, for example)... it's quite telling.
Can you tell me why I am wrong? Have you not seen the situation in France and Sweden? There are higher crime rate and harassment because of immigration. I always hear something bad happening in both of these countries. Japan, in contrast, has a very low crime rate. The only bad information I hear regarding Japan is its relationship with China and Korea, which is basically an external issue.
You aren’t wrong. There are a lot of liberals (I’m a liberal myself) who think any criticism of Muslims or Islam is “racist” (somebody should tell them Muslims aren’t a race). And it’s not just in Europe. A few days ago in NYC a Muslim immigrant stabbed a gay man to death because his dancing was “offensive” to his religion. I’m against all organized religion, but Islam is by far the worst. There have been more than one incidents of Muslims vandalizing Buddhist temples and Shinto shrines in Japan. Islam isn’t a tolerant ideology, people just need to accept that.
Religion in general is based around intolerance and "spreading the good word" by claiming superiority and the "only true path to redemption."
Christianity had a similarly bloody and violent history until around 70 years ago (and arguably still even now if you consider the fact that every President has identified as a Christian while dropping bombs overseas).
While I agree with your first statement, I disagree with the rest. Christianity’s bloodiest period was during the Crusades (around 1000 years ago). Christians are super annoying but they rarely resort to violence with the same frequency the way muslims do. When was the last time you heard of a Christian shooting cartoonists because of a drawing of Jesus? Or a Christian beheading a teacher in broad daylight because he showed a drawing of Jesus to his class? Or a Christian stabbing somebody because they were dancing?? Keep in mind none of the examples I just listed happened in Muslim countries. They happened in France and the US. And those are just three examples.
You're completely ignoring a Christian-fueled rampage across North America, including but not limited to the persecution and genocide of Native Americans, as well as the slavery and exploitation of Blacks to build up a white, Christian nation in a "brave new world" that was "earned" by Christian whites, i.e. manifest destiny.
If you think Christian violence peaked in the Crusades, then I honestly don't know what to tell you.
I’m more concerned with what’s happening now. In the 21st century, Islam is far more violent and extremist than Christianity. Christianity is declining in North America anyway. The percentage of Americans who identify as Christians is 63%. This is down from 92% in the 1990s. In Canada it’s just 55%.
We had a higher crime rate in the 90s-00s...
Crime is reported at a crazy rate, it doesnt reflect reality.
>Japan, in contrast, has a very low crime rate.
Reported crime rate.
Crime is a issue in japan, they just have a shit system to track it.
Eg, sexual harrasment isnt a thing
I can only speak for "crime ridden" sweden, walking around in the cities isnt an issue...
And its not bullshit, crime thats dropped isnt in the statistics in Japan...
Thats a fact
It's funny how Sweden and California are always used as examples of immigration hellholes by people who have never lived in either. Also a lot of the crime brought by immigration is intra-community, and also just what happens when you get any large group of 18-25 year olds from anywhere.
Most of the immigrants will probably come from neighboring countries, which have similar culture and ethics(not 1/1, but at least close) or at least I hope that they will. And hopefully they will use Scandinavia as an example on how not to work with immigrants.
Yes Chinese and Korean immigrations to Japan are definitely fine. Actually, the highest number of foreigners in Japan are Chinese nationals. I just don't hope they will accept a huge number of foreigners from America, Africa, the Middle East and Oceania.
Japan also has a lot more immigration from South East Asia and South Asia too. I doubt there will be such a severe cultural clash as in Europe because the religions are more similar, and there has been contact between South Asia, South East Asia, and North East Asia for millenia.
I necessarily do not disagree with him when it comes to integration. Having studied in Denmark for a semester, I can assure you that there were troubles with assimilation for MENA and African immigrants and refugees (and this was back in 2016 one year after the Syrian refugee crisis).
On a side note, Westerners should not complain, especially the ones on Twitter, about immigration because Japan is still a conservative country, despite changing a lot both socially and economically.
It’s a difficult comparison to countries like Australia which have been much more successful with immigration. The government throws a lot lot of money at integration programs, and most of the immigrants historically came from Greece, Italy, Vietnam and China. More recently across east and SE Asia, especially China. We don’t have a lot of mena and African immigrants to start with. Refugees are heavily supported with housing healthcare and allowances.
I wonder if Europe has put as much effort i to integration as the Australian government if it would have made a difference to Europe’s situation.
Are you going to tell me Australians and New Zealanders share similar culture and ethics with the Japanese? They are more like British and Canadians, which is normal because they actually come from the UK.
The UK actually has a lot of social similarities with Japan. A lot of the complaints that are fired at Japan by foreigners can also apply to the UK.
Additionally much of the westernisation of Japan was based of Netherlands/Germany/Scandinavia, so you get a lot of similarities in terms of economic and social cultures as well.
It may actually be a sign that Japan isn't capable of accepting immigration on the scale of countries like USA/Canada/Australia.
Tell me you have never been to Australia or NZ without telling me.
Covid rules were far stricter in those countries than Japan, people lined up for 10 hours for Covid tests for the common good. Nationalised healthcare, very very low crime and zero petty theft , community minded, no guns ,what exactly did you think these countries were like?
This doesn't mean it's the same culture and ethics as East Asia. China and Korea have the same culture and ethics. Actually, the Japanese culture was heavily influenced by Tang Dynasty of China, which explains kanji, samurai, tofu, calligraphy, chopsticks, Buddhism ( it came to Japan from China ), similar architecture and dress code, ... Even hiragana and katakana actually come from China. Ninja finds some of its sources in Art Of War by Sun Tzu. Korea was also heavily influenced by Tang Dynasty. This is what I call "similar culture and ethics". The Chinese, Korean, and Japanese also share the same personality traits. It's not only about ethnicity.
I would say that Korea and China are very similar and both part of the Sinosphere.
Japan has been more independent with far stronger contact with South East Asia and South Asia. Japan actually has a much more universal approach to racism that puts Asians on a equal footing.
And also you are over-stating the impact of China on Japan, most of the things you listed have only been minimally (if at all) impacted by Chinese culture, and other regions of the world have had just as much impact.
Translation: "I'm anti-immigration except for myself. Japan needs to stay homogenous but also allow me in because I'm special and unique."
Judging from your post history, you're originally from Belgium, migrated to the U.K., then migrated to Japan sometime afterwards.
And yet, here you are complaining about immigration and "leftist" ideology when you yourself are an immigrant taking advantage of those very same ideologies for your own personal gain.
"Close the borders, close the borders! Just... keep the door cracked for me to come in, okay?"
I feel you.
What makes countries beautiful is their culture. What makes the world beautiful is the ambudance of different cultures.
With immigration like in Sweden, their culture diminishes, and at the very best, the different cultures mix. But Sweden is still the one to sacrifice a part of it’s identity. And Swedish culture doesn’t spread itself like some others, so it is left to diminish. This way the world’s cultural balance wavers, and we lose beautiful things.
I think it is okay to try to protect these more endangered peoples too, even though they might, by American lingo, be ”white” and ”priviledged”. Immigrants should become full-fledged citizens of the host country, they should be melded by it, not the other way around, as this is just morally correct, and polite. Not to mention, beneficial to everyone involved.
I am getting tired of this hypersensitive political high horsing. Racism is never okay, as it just creates more problems. I just want all cultutes to have their place in the world, like with Sweden and Japan here. This way the world is much more colorful and interesting.
The idea of all continents looking and feeling the same, with some soulless mass corporate culture would be beyond dull. Somehow, some people want that to happen.
Immigrants or refugees? There is a big difference. I doubt you’re having trouble with Americans, Germans or Dutch working tech jobs in Stockholm, are you?
Immigration is good, but like all things it needs to be in moderation. I can see where you are coming from.
I am not sure anybody in Japan would be happy to see Japanese people make up only 60% of the populace by 2060. That sort of rapid and massive demographic transition is driven by an insatiable thirst for cheap labour, not because corporations and governments want diversity.
Ding ding ding. The advocates of unrestricted immigration never acknowledge or discuss the many downsides. Japan has been doing a good job so far but the new breed of politician like Kishida, Kono, and Omi are part of the general trend of puppets for stakeholder capitalism. Meanwhile the Japanese population is brainwashed 24/7 by NHK programming that shows nothing but positive stories about migrants/foreigners... heiwaboke
They will make the same mistakes if they go down this path. My country was supposed to be the one that doesn't fuck it up, and it fucked up.
Now there's videos online with Finnish teenagers getting attacked 5 vs 1 by migrants. Japanese teens will suffer the same fate, unless Japan decides to opt out from mass immigration, and instead focuses on strictly controlled immigration with zero tolerance towards criminal behavior.
Europeans are something else. First you rape the shit out of other countries. Then when migrants that you colonized and fucked endlessly arrive at your doorstep (and know your language because you colonized them) you take them in for cheap labor. Then you have institutionalized racism against them causing them to live in ghettos when they can't advance or integrate into society. Then when some of them crack under the pressure and commit crimes (as people from any population would do) you cry and label them as lesser humans.
Tbh you're right. People shouldn't have to emigrate to your "developed" countries. They should have their own nice places to live. You know what would help with that? If Europeans stop fucking with them.
I definitely understand what you say. Your argument works for the US, UK, France, Germany and Italy. However, it does not work for Turkey and Sweden as the Ottomans and the Swedes never colonised anyone. There was actually a certain stability in Africa and the Middle East with the Ottomans. The Swedes have not been in war with anyone for more than 200 years. Now can you explain me the antisocial behaviour of the migrants and refugees in Sweden and Turkey please?
Jokes on Japan,
Everyone’s TFR is declining and most is below replacement level.
This might work for the next 10 years, but unless they jack up TFRs, they are still even more screwed as migrants dry up
My guess is the big companies are not going to want to downsize, so we need people to buy things or as the population declines, the prices will go up and up.
People love to argue whether Japan should or shouldn't increase immigration, but it already has and will continue to do so.
There are barely any Japanese people here. The vast majority of people here are Americans and a splattering of people from other parts of the world who chime in now and then.
While I'm sure there's a decent amount of legitimate racism here, I don't like how you're pretending the issue isn't far more nuanced than that. I find it highly disingenuous.
I wonder if diversity will bring the same strength and unity to a crumbling Japan that has for major European cities.
I was booking a holiday this summer and I wanted to visit Greece but figured I would hit some other famous European sites too. I also wanted to visit Japan. The travel company had tons of safety information regarding Europe, especially places like Paris, because of a significant non-European population. The travel company gave almost no similar warnings about dangerous areas to avoid in Japan. (Travel company and I are Chinese).
It will be interesting to see if Japan's cultural traditions will give way to a modernized global village kind of identity.
A lot of extremely qualified and extremely well educated people might be interested if Japan were. Too bad they’re tripling down on economic and population decline forever.
What? Anyone actually highly qualified and educated can very easily enter Japan right now and apply for permanent residence after one year. Japan has the probably the easiest and most lenient work visas of any industrialized nation *if you’re a white collar worker*.
The issue with Japan is that they also need a lot of laborers besides the high spec white collar workers, and they’re doing everything they can to make poorly-considered schemes that largely don’t give those immigrants a chance to settle down or integrate.
Karma is a bitch, every country that claim to be superior genetically to other finding out that it's not the case and the natural order is slapping them with extinction. Sweet cosmic justice. How can you be genetically superior to anything if you don't have the simple capabilities to reproduce yourself.
Let me guess: * Temporary only * No path to permanent residency or citizenship * Exploitative working conditions with little/no means to report mistreatment
I might not have the complete picture here but isn't PR or naturalization relatively easy in japan in terms of developed nations? In terms of requirements? The problem is integrating them into society, not providing a path to residency right?
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That makes sense, most immigrants in japan and blue collar workers from developing nations. Do blue collar worker's naturalization attempts get rejected often?
If they are skilled (certified),no, but that's the minority as per the norm with lower rung countries
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It's the Japanese way!
Would this still be more attractive than China? Would it make any dent at all in their population issues? I’d think it would. Any relaxing of policy towards immigration will help. Will it solve their problems entirely? No Edit:sp
I’ve been here for 10years and I’ll be here permanently….
Are you vietnamese?
Got loads of Vietnamese friends that are citizens now… what’s your point? Way easier to become a citizen of Japan than the US
Comparing Japan to US is not appropriate, US is much more attractive to immigrants, JAPAN IS FAR FROM THAT.
Depends really. Both average work hours and suicide rate are lower in Japan than in the US these days
*reported work hours. Not the reality. I have worked in both countries and Japan is still far worse in that regard.
that's not true and you're not American so you don't count
Why is that relevant? Genuine question
Got loads of Vietnamese friends that are citizens now… what’s your point?
Got loads of Vietnamese friends that are citizens now… what’s your point?
Why are you getting dislikes
Salty larping westerners that wish they were here =)))
As it should be, since Japan isn't a multicultural society like the US.
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Are you OK?
As a Japanese person all I see on Japanese Reddits are westerners arguing.
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All the subreddits that deal with Asian countries are exceptionally toxic and US-centric. The only one with any sense of positivity is the Korean ones and that also happens to be the most Americanised country in Asia.
Cant even count how many times I've seen people talk about how the average salary in [insert Asian country] is not livable in the US because ofc every country has the same cost of living
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Usually twitter from what I know
2chan isn't even really active now, they're all on twitter.
It's an English-dominated website, so what do you expect?
Some decency
Well, yeah. That's a given. But complaining about "westerners arguing" on a website designed by and for westerners is kind of silly. Japanese subreddit are filled with westerners because English-speaking Japanese users such as you and I are in short supply.
That's not a complaint. That's just something I commonly see.
This is dumb. Bet there are Japanese sites and forums filled with Japanese people aruging
The worst kind of immigration, of course. Guest workers on fixed term visas and menial salaries where the manpower agency takes over half their pay. Even Toyota is shipping in hundreds of Indians in waves to toil in their factories. Japan has never lost its colonial attitude to the rest of Asia.
Just in Asia, Korea, Singapore, China, Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, Dubai, etc all have similar systems where it's very difficult/impossible for many catagories of guest workers to ever gain permanent residency. It's more a wealthy country thing than a Japan only thing. Not that it makes it right of course
Japan is better than places like Dubai for Indians though.
I... You're not wrong, but that bar's so fucking low that it feels like damning with faint praise.
You probably won't get murdered in Japan, so they've got that going for them.. which is nice.
Unless you overstay your visa
I think Japan is actually a good destination for Indians. It's more that the jobs that a lot of these Chinese, South East Asians and South Asians do tend to be low income DDD jobs that Japanese look down on.
Two sides of the same coin
There are plenty of white collar and even billionaire Indian residents of Dubai, a few have even been ‘awarded’ citizenship (the founder of Lulu Hypermarket). Impossible to imagine for Japan.
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Quick search reveals that only about half a million people have been naturalized as Japanese citizens between 1868 and 2015, the vast majority I expect though marriages. There is a selection bias here on this sub when people talk anecdotally. Getting Japanese citizenship seems about as hard as getting Gulf citizenship, not impossible but deeply prohibitive. You could get it quicker and easier anywhere else almost, including places like Singapore.
Citizenship is easier in Japan than Dubai. The key difference is that Japan has some of the highest income taxes in the world and is culturally against excessive displays of wealth, whereas Dubai is a tax haven and easy to hide lots of corrupt money. Most Indians are basically treated like dirt in Dubai.
It's a racism xenophobia thing.
that is bascally what canada is doing right now. It raises the value of housing, and students are forced to work low paying jobs to pay rent and tuition.
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Actually a lot of students get turned away PR. It is not as easy as you think anymore. Many students do end up doing low wage work and get their work permits denied once they finished school [https://youtu.be/\_hmI9jepBl8?t=389](https://youtu.be/_hmI9jepBl8?t=389)
I don’t get that. I lived there 6 years and friends that stayed there became Japanese quite easily, and got the permanent residence also quite easily. Way more easy than the Us
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That’s my point people here act as if Japan is an outlier that should accept immigrants like the US did in the 1920s. That just doesn’t happen anymore. If you are a low skilled immigrant you are going to have a hard time for a permanent visa regardless of where you live
Yeah, the problem with Japan isn't necessarily the laws on the books. It's the overall support from the community. Second language support, welcoming non-Japanese attitudes to the workforce, etc. It's*getting* better, but dubious if it's doing so at a rate that'll make a dent. Plus with wages here they're not very competitive with the rest of the developed world. They basically make it so you either have to love Japan or have no other destination to want to stay here.
The government offers free Japanese classes you can go to. No one here is a non-English speaking immigrant in an English country, but I think it's hard in every country unless there's a large population of people who speak your language there. English speakers are too used to seeing their language in every country so they're really sensitive to not being accommodated while that's completely normal when traveling as someone that doesn't speak English. If our position is that English should be the global language and we should all push everyone to have English versions of their menus, websites, etc, then that's fine but let's not act as though it's unaccommodating only when it's English isn't present (since it's pretty hard to live only understanding Japanese in the US as well).
they'll have to adapt soon. The population is aging. Its sounds somewhat radical, but perhaps English could be used as a language to help immigrants become more settled into Japan. Japanese is hard to learn, and the country will need the labor.
Really, because everywhere I go people take one look at my face and spew unwanted/unnecessary English I have to refuse.
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None whatsoever, I met friends with worse Japanese than me (I have JLPt 2) and had no issue. Not gonna lie though, to navigate the process you will probably need some decent Japanese or a translator, but is not really written anywhere
It is required, but it's a pretty weak level required
Citizenship has an interview requirement, PR has none whatsoever.
I was just visiting Markham Canada and I swear I was in China 🇨🇳 .
You should see Richmond, BC
I think Canada will regret it. The people I was with actually told me that they came to Canada and to universities just for citizenship and to open businesses. The money is flowing in and out. They will own Canada pretty soon.
And since when should students not work low paying jobs? They are STUDENTS.
Can you name a developed country that isn't doing this? There's definitely a massive political push to import as many immigrants into developed nations as possible.
Japan is generally quite friendly towards foreigners from Asia (and people forget that Japan has had contact with East Asia and South Asia for millennia). I think some of the key issues are that most these people aren't culturally integrated into Japanese culture (and it is the same everywhere with expats who have no cultural understanding for the local country) and tend to be financially poor. But otherwise immigrants from East Asia and South Asia are usually welcomed in Japan.
Genuine question. Have you lived in Japan? Not being confrontational, just curious.
Are you sure about South Asia?
This kind of comment is the real racist one. Temperoal visas are done by two-parties' consent and you make it sound like people from devloping countries can't even figure out their lives by theirselves. Yes there are some issues in the process which creates exploitation but that's another story and has nothing to do with the type of visa itself. But hey western countries import so many illegal / undocumented immigrants granted you are black or your are from middle east while us asian who have working skills and degrees have such a hard time entering your countries. Liberals are more racist then the concervatives in this regard because at least they are looking at who we are and where we come from. But you liberals the real racist/colonist think you are the saviour of those poor countries which you effectively create a black market of human traffics just to drain out specifically adult males. I feel like it's not even that Japan is anything special. It's just Japan is a working example of how things should be done in some areas where your hypocrisy exposes.
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> People act like Japan is heaven and I've never been but Bro, I don’t think you should comment on Japanese society if you’ve never been. It has its flaws like most countries > Shitty hotels with a whole bunch of rules is a prime example. These exists everywhere. Immigration is just not popular in Japan and there’s been negative reports in Japan about how immigrants are treated
You sound like an idiot.
They can't even hold shit together when it comes to immigration law and still wondering my there aren't many foreigners willing to work there.
I guess thats what you get when 50% of the nation is +60. Japan is in for some serious hurt if they dont start to allow foriegn workers with a path to integration.
Immigration won't solve it unfortunately. It'll help, but it's basically a temporary bandaid instead of dealing with the actual issues. Population decline is inevitable at this point for most high income nations, japan is just the first one there. You can however alleviate the effects by various methods. Immigration is one, but improving working conditions, wages and improving child raising circumstances are far higher priorities.
steer unite gray direction voracious zonked hurry kiss unused cows *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
We need a band aid. We need several. Food prices are rising again in October, the last few months I've felt like I'm working for nothing.
I'm in info sec and see postings for months looking for a bilingual middle level security analyst for 8m yen. Goof luck with that. You'll need to double it minimum.
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Yup. In these threads, people tend to mix up blue collar jobs and white collar jobs, but those are two different worlds. I assume the primary focus for Kishida will be increasing staff for industries like restaurants, hotels, and factories. A number of businesses have already closed due to the lack of staff in these industries.
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It's a win for white collar workers, but not for native blue collar workers. This is a historic opportunity to negotiate wages and benefits. You can leverage the scarcity to make big gains. Added competition from immigrants doesn't help.
I don’t have firsthand experience, so I’m curious about the various difficulties. As an outsider who has considered and researched moving to Japan, it looks way easier than most EU countries. I score 85pts for the HSP visa, which means PR eligibility in 1 to 3 years; also no language requirement…. Meanwhile, many EU countries have rigid requirements for PR (language, character assessment, etc), and even getting a work visa in the first place requires a Labor Market Test proving they can’t find a suitable candidate from within the EEA/EU.
I have a master degree and I know Japanese well. Japan is so much easier for me to immigrate lol. Literal every non-English native countries import low skill workers and expect them to NOT integrate and apparently for you guys this is the right way. Tell me how many immigrants who respect the cultures and the languages when it comes to Frence and Germany? Tell me how many foreigners "willing" to go to those countries because they like the countries by its nature? Btw so much denial of reality and calling out anyone with a different opinion. There is a reason why there is a surge of far-right in Europe. People have to resort to another bunch of frenzies to ask for someone who dares to speak even a fraction of true.
Even as a Japanese citizen. I still prefer to work in the US. One big thing they can do is open up dial citizenship between US and Japan as well, that alone will bring in a lot of young people… Its frustrating that they can’t do immigration right, they can’t even do immigration of their own naturalized citizens right. Smh. There are many companies I would Work for in the Japan office that operate in both countries…
Unless they can magic more *Japanese* workers out of a hat, no one is going to be happy. More immigrants mean unhappy public, unhappy government and probably unhappy immigrants once they realize they're being exploited (because of course they will be).
I don’t get all of the shit on Visas. I had plenty of friends who stayed there after their masters/PhD and now have permanent residency or became citizens. If you want an easy immigration path for low skilled workers, good luck finding that anywhere in the world. In my experience is way more easy to get a “green card” in Japan than the US
Welcome developing country workers! The infinite is possible if you work for 800 yen an hour. Also don’t ask about permanent residence… it’s a silly thing.
problem is that it is almost impossible to find jobs without japanese language skills, even in IT of FIN I am sure lot of skilled people would like to experience working in Japan but there is no chance of getting a job
>problem is that it is almost impossible to find jobs without japanese language skills It's like this in many monolingual countries, though. Good luck finding a non-labor job in the U.S., Britain, Australia, etc. without speaking English.
Even good labour jobs are difficult to come across. My industry is 冷機工業/空調 (refrigeration/hvac) without English and in my country. However in Japan to even score a job with 海外事業 in blue collar work you still need excellent Japanese. For example I’ve applied multiple times to Trane JP with zero success due to my Japanese not being sufficient, however I hold the highest certified license in Canada with over 6 years experience. I even have government transcripts showing over 7200 working hours (as of 2021) recorded but this still doesn’t give me any exception due to the fact the vast majority of Japan rarely uses English internally. Haha hell I’ve even been turned down twice for jobs that require native English to deal with native clients (tour guide and security) but due to my Japanese not having fluency 🙅♂️🤷♂️
Because Japan is truly monolingual. Learn the language if you want to survive. Time to buckle down and study.
It’s true - I’ve been here just over a year, I go through phases of cramming, JLPT focus, immersion, and real time scenario. Learning a language is a marathon not a sprint sort of skill. Meaning I’m not expecting to be fluent that fast and will deal with the trouble that come along with it as they do. All in good time
That's the spirit. Good luck!
well the difference is that english is world business language you can work in Germany, in Italy, in Argentina, in Pakistan or wherever and as long as you work for international company the chances are high your daily office language will be english. and english is "everywhere" today. in tv, in music, games, advertising etc. very easily accessible. that is not really the case in Japan and japanese language. I did an interview few months back for one international company with HQ in japan (they do medical and optical technology) and hiring manager in Europe told me that part of my stakeholders will be in japan and lot of them dont have good english. so there will be translator present during meetings. I was surprised by this. I have never seen anything like that before.
Because, once again, you're in a monolingual island nation with controlled immigration. The average person doesn't speak anything other than Japanese. Learn Japanese to find the best jobs in a country where everyone, you know, speaks Japanese.
His point is that Japanese business is outdated compared to other non-English speaking countries. For example, some of the best jobs in Denmark are English speaking because they want to be able to hire from the entire world. But you’re right, for practical reasons you should learn Japanese if you want a job in Japan. However, this thread is about Japan _needing_ more immigrants, and like the big Danish companies who need the best, limiting to a local language only is going to make that harder for those companies.
If you have IT skills, I could work as your agent to find you *a* job in Japan with a visa attached without me ever working in that field before. I can't guarantee it's a good company or the salary is great, but I can get you in the door.
What about medical technology or biomedical engineering etc? These would all need high proficiency in japanese language right?
From my experience, these fields need high levels of English to do the actual work/study, but only need Japanese if the people managing it don't understand English. This should be considered a red flag and to steer away from in the coming future.
That is a problem for southeast Indians. English accents are indecipherable.
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Do you mean "pilot" as in flying planes? (you never know with the current vocab (what the hell is an engineer these days?)) I can network you into a flying club based in Nagoya. After that you need to prove what you can do.
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I worked for a very short time as a headhunter with dismal results because I didn't like what I saw. Really, all I can do to help you is to get you a visa to stay here from a black company. You can then quit and have whatever the visa immigration gave you to find something more preferable, and then hopefully your dream job. Remember, your visa is not attached to your company. Every time you have to extend your visa, put down 5 years.
I've found virtually no mid level cybersecurity gigs on the risk side looking for English speakers. Gotta write and speak bilingual fluently. I guess I'll sit on DOD jobs here forever haha
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you know that IT jobs have many roles not only developers right? I did spend maybe one afternoon, just out of curiosity looking at LinkedIn. Lot of advertising in english but almost every job required some level of japanese.
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Bet they don't even know about Bizreach
Japan is a gem with an incredibly dark side
"Incredibly dark side" is so dramatic lol
Are half of these gonna be English teachers
Factory workers/ waiters/ road workers…crumbling infrastructure due to shrinking workforce because Japanese are not having kids. Guarantee the “immigration” will mostly be temporary work. They want the labor not the people.
Not at a 141 yen to the dollar their not.
That doesn't sound very believable.
I hope Japan will not make the same mistake as European countries, especially France, Italy, Germany, Sweden, the UK (also Turkey).
Not sure why you are getting downvoted. We(I am living in Sweden) have failed miserably when it comes to help immigrants to assimilate into our society.
Because he’s making a racist argument about « loss of culture/identity », that’s why he’s getting downvoted. Classic dog whistle.
> Because he’s making a racist argument about « loss of culture/identity » Not sure why this is “racist.” A loss of culture/identity is tragic and has happened before I live in the US and I’ve traveled to Hawaii many times (have family there). A lot of Native Americans and Native Hawaiians here cannot speak their ancestral language
Why you describe is legitimate. What the person is referring to is absolutely not that and, again, a particular kind of dog whistle to appeal to racists.
How is it not legitimate?
He isn’t wrong though
He’s super wrong.
France disagrees
As someone living in France, I think I would know.
And what do you know? I'm French too, and yes, immigration has been quite a failure. Just look at the prison population and criminal rates (half of the crimes are committed by strangers in Paris, for example)... it's quite telling.
yeah, your nation is cucked
Looks at far-right sources that only report crime done by non-natives* >yeah, your nation is cucked Christ...
Can you tell me why I am wrong? Have you not seen the situation in France and Sweden? There are higher crime rate and harassment because of immigration. I always hear something bad happening in both of these countries. Japan, in contrast, has a very low crime rate. The only bad information I hear regarding Japan is its relationship with China and Korea, which is basically an external issue.
You aren’t wrong. There are a lot of liberals (I’m a liberal myself) who think any criticism of Muslims or Islam is “racist” (somebody should tell them Muslims aren’t a race). And it’s not just in Europe. A few days ago in NYC a Muslim immigrant stabbed a gay man to death because his dancing was “offensive” to his religion. I’m against all organized religion, but Islam is by far the worst. There have been more than one incidents of Muslims vandalizing Buddhist temples and Shinto shrines in Japan. Islam isn’t a tolerant ideology, people just need to accept that.
Religion in general is based around intolerance and "spreading the good word" by claiming superiority and the "only true path to redemption." Christianity had a similarly bloody and violent history until around 70 years ago (and arguably still even now if you consider the fact that every President has identified as a Christian while dropping bombs overseas).
While I agree with your first statement, I disagree with the rest. Christianity’s bloodiest period was during the Crusades (around 1000 years ago). Christians are super annoying but they rarely resort to violence with the same frequency the way muslims do. When was the last time you heard of a Christian shooting cartoonists because of a drawing of Jesus? Or a Christian beheading a teacher in broad daylight because he showed a drawing of Jesus to his class? Or a Christian stabbing somebody because they were dancing?? Keep in mind none of the examples I just listed happened in Muslim countries. They happened in France and the US. And those are just three examples.
You're completely ignoring a Christian-fueled rampage across North America, including but not limited to the persecution and genocide of Native Americans, as well as the slavery and exploitation of Blacks to build up a white, Christian nation in a "brave new world" that was "earned" by Christian whites, i.e. manifest destiny. If you think Christian violence peaked in the Crusades, then I honestly don't know what to tell you.
I’m more concerned with what’s happening now. In the 21st century, Islam is far more violent and extremist than Christianity. Christianity is declining in North America anyway. The percentage of Americans who identify as Christians is 63%. This is down from 92% in the 1990s. In Canada it’s just 55%.
You're the one who mentioned the Crusades, not me.
We had a higher crime rate in the 90s-00s... Crime is reported at a crazy rate, it doesnt reflect reality. >Japan, in contrast, has a very low crime rate. Reported crime rate. Crime is a issue in japan, they just have a shit system to track it. Eg, sexual harrasment isnt a thing
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I can only speak for "crime ridden" sweden, walking around in the cities isnt an issue... And its not bullshit, crime thats dropped isnt in the statistics in Japan... Thats a fact
It's funny how Sweden and California are always used as examples of immigration hellholes by people who have never lived in either. Also a lot of the crime brought by immigration is intra-community, and also just what happens when you get any large group of 18-25 year olds from anywhere.
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> I really don't want Japan to become heterogeneous. classic "I want to be the only foreigner in Japan" mentality
Most of the immigrants will probably come from neighboring countries, which have similar culture and ethics(not 1/1, but at least close) or at least I hope that they will. And hopefully they will use Scandinavia as an example on how not to work with immigrants.
Yes Chinese and Korean immigrations to Japan are definitely fine. Actually, the highest number of foreigners in Japan are Chinese nationals. I just don't hope they will accept a huge number of foreigners from America, Africa, the Middle East and Oceania.
Japan also has a lot more immigration from South East Asia and South Asia too. I doubt there will be such a severe cultural clash as in Europe because the religions are more similar, and there has been contact between South Asia, South East Asia, and North East Asia for millenia.
Oceania? What is your issue with Australians and New Zealanders??
I am sure he meant, non-white Occeanians.
So for him, it really is a race thing then 🤔
I necessarily do not disagree with him when it comes to integration. Having studied in Denmark for a semester, I can assure you that there were troubles with assimilation for MENA and African immigrants and refugees (and this was back in 2016 one year after the Syrian refugee crisis). On a side note, Westerners should not complain, especially the ones on Twitter, about immigration because Japan is still a conservative country, despite changing a lot both socially and economically.
It’s a difficult comparison to countries like Australia which have been much more successful with immigration. The government throws a lot lot of money at integration programs, and most of the immigrants historically came from Greece, Italy, Vietnam and China. More recently across east and SE Asia, especially China. We don’t have a lot of mena and African immigrants to start with. Refugees are heavily supported with housing healthcare and allowances. I wonder if Europe has put as much effort i to integration as the Australian government if it would have made a difference to Europe’s situation.
Are you going to tell me Australians and New Zealanders share similar culture and ethics with the Japanese? They are more like British and Canadians, which is normal because they actually come from the UK.
The UK actually has a lot of social similarities with Japan. A lot of the complaints that are fired at Japan by foreigners can also apply to the UK. Additionally much of the westernisation of Japan was based of Netherlands/Germany/Scandinavia, so you get a lot of similarities in terms of economic and social cultures as well. It may actually be a sign that Japan isn't capable of accepting immigration on the scale of countries like USA/Canada/Australia.
Tell me you have never been to Australia or NZ without telling me. Covid rules were far stricter in those countries than Japan, people lined up for 10 hours for Covid tests for the common good. Nationalised healthcare, very very low crime and zero petty theft , community minded, no guns ,what exactly did you think these countries were like?
This doesn't mean it's the same culture and ethics as East Asia. China and Korea have the same culture and ethics. Actually, the Japanese culture was heavily influenced by Tang Dynasty of China, which explains kanji, samurai, tofu, calligraphy, chopsticks, Buddhism ( it came to Japan from China ), similar architecture and dress code, ... Even hiragana and katakana actually come from China. Ninja finds some of its sources in Art Of War by Sun Tzu. Korea was also heavily influenced by Tang Dynasty. This is what I call "similar culture and ethics". The Chinese, Korean, and Japanese also share the same personality traits. It's not only about ethnicity.
I would say that Korea and China are very similar and both part of the Sinosphere. Japan has been more independent with far stronger contact with South East Asia and South Asia. Japan actually has a much more universal approach to racism that puts Asians on a equal footing. And also you are over-stating the impact of China on Japan, most of the things you listed have only been minimally (if at all) impacted by Chinese culture, and other regions of the world have had just as much impact.
I applaud you both. Maybe the first time I've seen sensible people in this sub
Translation: "I'm anti-immigration except for myself. Japan needs to stay homogenous but also allow me in because I'm special and unique." Judging from your post history, you're originally from Belgium, migrated to the U.K., then migrated to Japan sometime afterwards. And yet, here you are complaining about immigration and "leftist" ideology when you yourself are an immigrant taking advantage of those very same ideologies for your own personal gain. "Close the borders, close the borders! Just... keep the door cracked for me to come in, okay?"
I feel you. What makes countries beautiful is their culture. What makes the world beautiful is the ambudance of different cultures. With immigration like in Sweden, their culture diminishes, and at the very best, the different cultures mix. But Sweden is still the one to sacrifice a part of it’s identity. And Swedish culture doesn’t spread itself like some others, so it is left to diminish. This way the world’s cultural balance wavers, and we lose beautiful things. I think it is okay to try to protect these more endangered peoples too, even though they might, by American lingo, be ”white” and ”priviledged”. Immigrants should become full-fledged citizens of the host country, they should be melded by it, not the other way around, as this is just morally correct, and polite. Not to mention, beneficial to everyone involved. I am getting tired of this hypersensitive political high horsing. Racism is never okay, as it just creates more problems. I just want all cultutes to have their place in the world, like with Sweden and Japan here. This way the world is much more colorful and interesting.
The idea of all continents looking and feeling the same, with some soulless mass corporate culture would be beyond dull. Somehow, some people want that to happen.
Dystopian stuff there, for sure
Immigrants or refugees? There is a big difference. I doubt you’re having trouble with Americans, Germans or Dutch working tech jobs in Stockholm, are you?
Immigration is good, but like all things it needs to be in moderation. I can see where you are coming from. I am not sure anybody in Japan would be happy to see Japanese people make up only 60% of the populace by 2060. That sort of rapid and massive demographic transition is driven by an insatiable thirst for cheap labour, not because corporations and governments want diversity.
Ding ding ding. The advocates of unrestricted immigration never acknowledge or discuss the many downsides. Japan has been doing a good job so far but the new breed of politician like Kishida, Kono, and Omi are part of the general trend of puppets for stakeholder capitalism. Meanwhile the Japanese population is brainwashed 24/7 by NHK programming that shows nothing but positive stories about migrants/foreigners... heiwaboke
They will make the same mistakes if they go down this path. My country was supposed to be the one that doesn't fuck it up, and it fucked up. Now there's videos online with Finnish teenagers getting attacked 5 vs 1 by migrants. Japanese teens will suffer the same fate, unless Japan decides to opt out from mass immigration, and instead focuses on strictly controlled immigration with zero tolerance towards criminal behavior.
Europeans are something else. First you rape the shit out of other countries. Then when migrants that you colonized and fucked endlessly arrive at your doorstep (and know your language because you colonized them) you take them in for cheap labor. Then you have institutionalized racism against them causing them to live in ghettos when they can't advance or integrate into society. Then when some of them crack under the pressure and commit crimes (as people from any population would do) you cry and label them as lesser humans. Tbh you're right. People shouldn't have to emigrate to your "developed" countries. They should have their own nice places to live. You know what would help with that? If Europeans stop fucking with them.
I definitely understand what you say. Your argument works for the US, UK, France, Germany and Italy. However, it does not work for Turkey and Sweden as the Ottomans and the Swedes never colonised anyone. There was actually a certain stability in Africa and the Middle East with the Ottomans. The Swedes have not been in war with anyone for more than 200 years. Now can you explain me the antisocial behaviour of the migrants and refugees in Sweden and Turkey please?
Jokes on Japan, Everyone’s TFR is declining and most is below replacement level. This might work for the next 10 years, but unless they jack up TFRs, they are still even more screwed as migrants dry up
RIP Japan. Gonna go the way of Europistan
My guess is the big companies are not going to want to downsize, so we need people to buy things or as the population declines, the prices will go up and up. People love to argue whether Japan should or shouldn't increase immigration, but it already has and will continue to do so.
Damn so many racists in this sub
Its weebs and japanese people, what do you expect xD "I'll rather see my country collapse than allowing foreigners to gain citizenship"
There are barely any Japanese people here. The vast majority of people here are Americans and a splattering of people from other parts of the world who chime in now and then.
"The country will collapse if Toyota has to pay decent money to get Japanese NEETs to work in its factories"
While I'm sure there's a decent amount of legitimate racism here, I don't like how you're pretending the issue isn't far more nuanced than that. I find it highly disingenuous.
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Fuck off
Racist
I wonder if diversity will bring the same strength and unity to a crumbling Japan that has for major European cities. I was booking a holiday this summer and I wanted to visit Greece but figured I would hit some other famous European sites too. I also wanted to visit Japan. The travel company had tons of safety information regarding Europe, especially places like Paris, because of a significant non-European population. The travel company gave almost no similar warnings about dangerous areas to avoid in Japan. (Travel company and I are Chinese). It will be interesting to see if Japan's cultural traditions will give way to a modernized global village kind of identity.
A lot of extremely qualified and extremely well educated people might be interested if Japan were. Too bad they’re tripling down on economic and population decline forever.
What? Anyone actually highly qualified and educated can very easily enter Japan right now and apply for permanent residence after one year. Japan has the probably the easiest and most lenient work visas of any industrialized nation *if you’re a white collar worker*. The issue with Japan is that they also need a lot of laborers besides the high spec white collar workers, and they’re doing everything they can to make poorly-considered schemes that largely don’t give those immigrants a chance to settle down or integrate.
I hear this a lot about white collar workers... in what fields are white collar workers are entering Japan this easily?
has like the easiest immigration laws except korea lol… just need a degree, or ten years xp, what like everybody has who wasnt slacking through life…
Why when the salaries and working conditions are shit?
Karma is a bitch, every country that claim to be superior genetically to other finding out that it's not the case and the natural order is slapping them with extinction. Sweet cosmic justice. How can you be genetically superior to anything if you don't have the simple capabilities to reproduce yourself.