It’s a very image conscious society. It was here that I first heard of the concept of choosing your clothes not to express yourself, but rather to show respect to other people (which does exist in other countries but here it was talked about explicitly).
That being said, you don’t have to dress up in clothes you don’t like. There are plenty of “unfashionable” people. You will be judged for it, but you’d be judged if you were wearing any particular style, so if you’re not into clothes/fashion/beauty, then just ignore your cousin and classmates.
I've never heard of anything like that before. I'm pretty sure most people just buy what they like and don't care much about "dressing for others". It honestly sounds like one of those things someone made up about "the mysterious county of Japan"
It’s not so much “dressing for others” it’s more “looking presentable for the purpose of making people around you feel comfortable and not see you as a weirdo” tbh
My situation is similar to the OPs.
The first example that came to mind are taxis in JP vs USA.
In Japan, taxis are meticulously clean, and the driver often wears a uniform, a hat and white gloves. They're overly polite and only talk when spoken to.
In the US (specifically Boston in this case), the tax driver wears whatever, oftentimes with the several of the top buttons unbuttoned, the front seat area has food wrappers & random sheets of paper laying around, and during the whole ride, the driver is talking to a buddy of his on the cell phone.
I personally don't care either way as long as I get from point A to point B, but the expectations for professionalism is different.
There was another reddit post earlier today about Target vs Walmart so I mention it. Japanese people dress like they're going to Target. American people dress like they're going to Walmart.
But that's a job. In the Netherlands taxi drivers also tend to wear suits. It's just part of being a professional. That doesn't have to do with personal life like in OP's post
Boston!
If they bring self-driving cabs to Boston, the cars better be able to shout *_Learn how to drive!_* and honk every time the vehicle in front of them slows down.
I got hired as a cabbie in Boston despite zero knowledge of the city (though I knew Cambridge) for the simple reason that I had had a haircut recently.
Rumor had it that the cabs had faulty brakes so you dropped a cinder block through a hole in the floor instead.
I ended up coming to Japan right before I was scheduled to start driving.
Huh, I've always thought that people who go to Target dress like they go to Target and people who go to Walmart dress like they go to Walmart regardless of their ethnicity.
And damn, I hate to be the poor Japanese woman dressed to the nines being lumped in with people dressed like "they're going to Target." You could have picked Daimaru vs. Uniqlo or something.
And I have no idea what taxi drivers at work have to do with casually cavorting with classmates.
Reddit has an amazing ability to talk about the main subject while completely delving into other subjects that completely fail to address the main subject. Taxi drivers in Boston is not the point here, bro.
the 2nd sentence was all you needed to say. my comment wasn't about taxi drivers in Boston either. it was a metaphor. but i concede your point.
there are two types of people. those who can extrapolate information and others who...
The standard of what constitutes a decent outfit is fairly high in Japan though. In OP’s case a young woman wearing baggy tshirts and cargo pants is far enough outside of the norm that she sticks out immediately and it could be considered inappropriate enough to attract comment.
> I'm pretty sure most people just buy what they like and don't care much about "dressing for others".
Do you think most men enjoy wearing suits in 35°C heat? Because I don't so I wear a T-shirt, jeans, or cargo shorts to the office. And while that is pretty much normal office attire where I am from, most people in Japan would not dare to go to work like that.
Yes, because culturally, there is a much greater emphasis on outward appearance. It's the cultural environment that leads to dress code policies like that. The extensive uniform culture of Japan is just another expression of those cultural values.
Japanese people do a lot of stuff just because and will struggle to adequately explain “why” they are doing it. Nobody is consciously doing it out of respect for others but that doesn’t mean there’s also not an element of that even if it’s the really just the thing pressure of society.
> I'm pretty sure most people just buy what they like and don't care much about "dressing for others".
Nearly everything the average Japanese person does after setting foot outside their front door is for others. That's what the entire concept of the "public face" is about.
I've heard of bizarre and inane fashion strictness, but then I also see thousands of vanilla dressed Japanese people so again its this typical thing of gaijins not understanding that there is no fitting in, no Japanese society outside of public face, and if you have a fashion problem than you're dealing with one of the many toxic cliques.
It's tatemae, a core social concept in Japan (in duality with honne). I would argue that if OP is close to her cousin or friends, they are actually saying these things because they want the best outcomes for her.
It’s not unheard of tbh! Culturally speaking it comes from kimono and yukata. For example yukata‘s worn in summer tend to have cool or cold prints to make others feel cool and fresh in the summer heat. I learned this from a kimono teacher.
Just because that's true for traditional clothing doesn't mean it's applicable to western style everyday clothes as well. If OP's post were about traditional clothes and dressing up for events, i would absolutely understand why looks matter, but in this case it just sounds so much more hostile than what you explain
People here walk in crocs and women wear clothes my grandmothers wore when they were still alive. As long as your clothing doesn't scream "tourist", it's fine.
Few women wear shorts. For some reason they don’t like to show their bare legs. Go to a sports day on tbd hottest day of the year at school and all the moms are in long pants and jeans. More men are wearing shorts these days compared to previously.
Damn. It must kinda suck to be a human where you live in the warmer months.
Here in Osaka, legs out is extremely common for both men and women. Lots of skirts, shorts, and shorts that look like skirts.
That being said, it's more fashionable to have only one pair of limbs uncovered. If your legs are out, it's fashionable to have long sleeves.
I've counted so many Japanese men in my area wearing shorts and walking in crocs as soon as it hit 30 degrees in Tokyo...... Maybe it depends on where you live?
imo the better you look, the better you will be treated, and more opportunities will come your way.
better customer service, better reactions when speaking to strangers. people take more interest in you, there's no good reason to not try and look your best
lookism is strong in Japan, and as your experiencing people are bringing it up to you. Better to go with the grain than against it.
It may be petty, but the rules are different here.
>there's no good reason to not try and look your best
The good reasons are time, effort, money
Depending on OP's goals in life, those resources could be spent elsewhere at a greater benefit
>Depending on OP's goals in life, those resources could be spent elsewhere at a greater benefit
Or lack of goals.
Everyone puts on shirts and pants in the morn. An effort to dress nicer is not that much different than the norm. Her own friends and family that most likely love her are telling her she could use a makeover, and theyre prob onto something.
If OP was that successful despite her fashion, I don't think she would be approached this way with it. If this is a Japanese vs western thing, then own it that way and stick up for yourself
Honestly? Not really. Basic improvements to your appearance will open so many opportunities and change the course of your life so much that spending basic effort to reach a reasonable standard is *always* worth it, and if you haven’t realized that you should probably consider doing some yourself.
Appearing well groomed, reasonably well dressed, and reasonably fit is literally life changing and will improve your impact in every social situation both from people’s reactions and your own confidence.
>Depending on OP's goals in life, those resources could be spent elsewhere at a greater benefit
FYI this is dead wrong.
Not saying I like it, just saying that's reality.
Actually this. I think lookism definitely exists strongly. Especially as a foreigner. And Japanese people, not every time but more often than not, will judge you on how you look and treat you accordingly ig.
I mean it's not been very obvious but very subtle from my personal observation.
I guess since there is a lot of 'reading the room' required in Japanese culture, even if there's nothing to read into, they might very well read into your appearance. That's not great but since they might, to prevent it from happening you got to dress well just to skip that unease and self-consciousness you would feel. In Japan, you have to think what other people are thinking of you and act accordingly so this kind of behaviour would be natural even if it is kind of weird for non-natives.
Yes, you get my point perfectly. I went through absolute hell when I first moved to Japan. Had to refine and recalibrate and it's still in progress.
The better you look, the nicer people are. Better jobs, more flexible workplace environment.
If you look lost, people are more willing to offer assistance if you're on the better side appearance wise.
Other dynamics also exist based on what kind of foreigner you are but regardless, looking your best is a *defense* against some of the darker sides of Japanese people one may encounter.
Doesn't guarantee a perfect life here but things can get really bad, and if you don't look like someone worth helping then you ain't gonna get help lol
🤌🤌 truth
That need to recalibrate yourself appearance-wise was something I resonate with. Working on it atm. Of course, this is a personal preference as a person tho. Ik people who haven't changed a thing about them and they have lived in Japan for over 3-4 years comfortably. It doesn't bother them, it seems. Or maybe they don't register? Idk. Point is you will be fine, if you can either:
a. Grow a thick skin and ignore the lookism/comments you get that you'll face or,
b. Adjust or at least 'refine' yourself according to Japanese standards, even the bare minimum.
Alternatively, you can choose to feel the hurt for how long you stay because Japan is a stiff country like that. It's one of it's greatest flaws. In the name of harmony is a sense of conformity so pervasive that there is a distinct (and personally disturbing) lack of individuality in many aspects, appearance being a very visible one.
For me the recalibration was needed for survival basically. There was an image that many Japanese people expected me to fit, and the more I went against the grain, the more they went against me.
I'd elaborate further but I get the feeling it would stir up disbelief on this thread lol. Things are far better now but could be even better so I won't stop trying to improve.
The negative comments are draining, and every commenter believes they are the first to mention it to you lol
I truly believe appearance is the path to success in Japan, even above the ability to speak Japanese
Bro please don't leave me hanging.
I see you are a brother from your profile pic.
Do you mean by the image the idea that Japanese people expect you as a black man to fit the 2000s rap wave look. They expect you to have that kind of swagger and style e.t.c
I have found this can be true with people who are not from the west but experienced western media.
What was the image that Japanese people expected you to fit?
Me even in the west, as a black person just as a teenager you were seen as an adult.
I would walk home lat at night and have grown, MIDDLE AGED men run from me in fear...
So I never feel shocked when I see someone say that in Japan they experienced a Japanese person react in a strange way to them based on pre-concieved notions.
Yeah bro, it's a very interesting dynamic. Basically if you fit the image of whatever famous black person they like then you're all good. If not, then they think you're from Africa and a refugee lol
If they like LeBron James, then you need to be similar or it's a disappointment to them
Clothing wise, you better be following the trend somewhat. Don't need to sag the pants but you need to be laced up with Jordans etc
If you look bummy or basic out here then expect a harder time doing everything. It's not technically racism, it's more lookism. Cuz if you fit the image then people will go out their way to help you find jobs or do favors.
With the women, the same dynamic apply times 2. If she likes Brian Mc Knight, every black dude she encounter *better* fit that image or else she pissed off. And they will let you know what type of dude they prefer. So if you not built like a NBA player or look like some kinda rapper/r&b guy expect them to act goofy towards you.
Sex is easy to get out here but like I said if you don't fit the image, they'll talk shit about you then ask you to come to the love hotel with her lol.
They deal with us to be entertained so you need the height, muscles, masculine features. They choose other types of men the same way they would adopt a puppy.
They choose a black dude the same way they would choose the best vacuum cleaner with the most accessories and longest attachment haha
You won't be compared to average or normal man, you will be directly compared to Neyo or Chris Brown but if they think you're close enough they will damn near worship you.
On first dates they will examine you like they tryna appraise an antique coin. I could elaborate so much further but I've said too much on this thread. There are different rules for different foreigners
If you can be a "handsome" gorilla, then everything will be smoother lol
> Actually this. I think lookism definitely exists strongly. Especially as a foreigner.
This I agree with, but it's more "don't look like a slob". It's not a particularly high bar.
Sounds like a girl I know, she is fully Japanese and was born and raised in Europe. Came to Japan in her mid 20‘s and was berated all the time. Why do you go by your nickname, that doesn’t sound Japanese? You are not necessarily fat, but… You are not really Japanese! You should know this because you are Japanese… and the list goes on! Only because ethnically she is Japanese!! She used to tell me, I have it good as a haafu.
Honestly ignore those comments. I wouldn’t hang out with them or go as low contact as possible.
Edit: spelling
Hard to choose not to go around because 99,9% of people in Japan are like this… I hate them trying to mold outsiders or even japanese/“hafu” in their way of doing things just to fit…
Please find japanese or “hafu” that lived abroad for a long time (not the ones that spent months outside), they will probably have a more open minded and respect your individuality.
>My foreigner friend
That person sounds like they aren't really your friend. Dress how *you* want to dress, and anyone who says anything about it isn't worth your time.
Just be careful about taking the general consensus from a subreddit that *constantly* talks about not being able to make any friends, especially with japanese people. Maybe, just maybe, dressing like a garbage bag in public has a little to do with it.
Speaking as a fellow garbage bag dresser, of course.
If you want to hang out with people who make shitty comments to you about the clothes you wear, then that's your prerogative. There are plenty of other people out there. Maybe you should have more self-respect.
I have a plenty of self respect to understand that people are capable of making their own choices and be right about them, and there is no need to treat them like kindergarten kids.
I think this is the most obvious gap and difference between Asians born and raised in Asia and Asians born and raised in the West.
I reckon you will sooner or later go back to the place where you were living before, so you don’t necessarily need to fully fit into Japanese or East Asian customs and cultures.
However, I think Japanese-looking or East Asian-looking people staying in Asia are more required or expected to dress like locals. If you don’t follow these norms, you will stand out significantly from other East Asians.
Very bluntly speaking, when I see East Asians born and raised in the West, especially in the USA, to be honest, I wonder why their hair is so dry and their skin conditions are so bad, and why they don’t mind wearing clothes that look like pajamas when they are in the city centre.
Tbh, it's the same for Europeans. White people in America are dressed bad comparatively to their European-born white counterparts. America is the land of freedom so "dress code" tends to be more relaxed compared to the old world of Europe and Asia. But East Asians in the west..... Don't know what you're talking about but I have never seen their hair as dry or have bad skin conditions. If anything, Japanese hair tends to look oily to me, which seems like they haven't washed their hair well.
I apologise if I may have inadvertently caused any offence by mentioning the USA. In my observation, their hair and skin often appear not well-treated and rather dry and damaged by the sun. Additionally, their weight and fashion choices can make them seem much older than they actually are. This is merely my personal observation as someone born in Japan, and I understand that perspectives may vary.
Tbh, America overall is also quite diverse between states in comparison to Japan's diversity amongst Japanese-only people. The observation you mentioned sounds more aligned with West Coast people than the rest of America. I'm not American either (though most would still consider anywhere in the Americas as "American). In terms of weight and fashion making someone appear older than they are, I do agree to a certain extent regarding weight (though I have met many exceptions that makes this otherwise true), fashion choices quite frankly differs based on their personal preferences. West Coast fashion is vastly different from East Coast. Not sure which type of fashion you are referring to. Mind you, New York being a fashion capital of the world, people are dressed vastly different there too (and the surrounding Northern - East Coast area).
There's no offense as I just wanted to point out that your experience of seeing Western East Asians might just be one type of out many others that are vastly different in bodily care based on where they're from and the surrounding culture they grew up in. East Asians outside of East Asia are way more diverse than the ones in East Asia as there is more demand to "fit in" in Asia.
>USA, to be honest, I wonder why their hair is so dry and their skin conditions are so bad
Lol I think it might be the climate and maybe the food as well. If they are Asians from SoCal where a lot of them disproportionately are, we are all like toast you leave in the toaster a bit too long. Many of our high schools even have lockers outside the building and almost everyone eats lunch outdoors in the sun.
You can usually tell who the Asian Asians are by their fashion and noticeably smoother and less tanned.
I don’t think you need to worry about it too much. However, the average age and lifestyle of people on JapanLife are quite different from your social circles in real life, so it might be better to ask people around your age.
I’m kind of gobsmacked that almost everyone here says, "wear whatever you want," but many of my friends in their 20s or 30s still care about what they wear.
Dude, don't be gullible or naive! Your cousin seems to really prioritize superficial things over the qualities that actually matter in a person. This suggests a pretty shallow perspective, where looking good is more important than being good. It's an attitude that misses the deeper aspects of personality and intellect that really define someone's character. Just be mindful and don't let these superficial views sway you. Remember, your true worth is about so much more than just how you look.
While it's true that image and fashion is a big thing here, honestly, who gives a f. It's so damn hot here I prioritize comfort over anything, regardless of season. Although I am an older millennial so I don't give a damn anymore really.
My wife is Japanese. When we visited Japan in the past, she would literally put on make up and the whole shebang when we would just go for a 5 minute walk to Lawson. I used to joke with her about this as it was totally foreign to me. And she used to give me shit for wearing shorts and flip flops on the train in October, when everyone else was wearing jeans and leather jackets when the weather was still hot as balls.
Now? She could care less lol. She lived in the States long enough where she adopted comfort over style too (seeing attractive women wear PJ's to the store for example). And she no longer puts on make up or at most just some basic stuff. Buuuuut she's older like me now.
It might be 'necessary' in Japan as others say, but damn is it superficial.
> Dude, don't be gullible or naive! Your cousin seems to really prioritize superficial things over the qualities that actually matter in a person
That is straight up a good portion of Japanese culture. You either get on board with it or don't.
"Oh look I noticed a thing that convincingly sounds like it makes you stand out so I'm going to mention it because even though it might make you feel bad and whether or not it give me any power or anything, I have to point out the thing because for one instant the attention will be on you instead of possibly on me."
That's all this BS is, typical really.
You are in the real world while your cousin lives online and mistakes it for the same. Don't worry, it doesn't matter now and will matter even less as you grow older.
I would say, yes, most East Asians I have lived around over the last 13 years have been judgmental about appearance. This has included clothing coordinations, brand names, hairstyles, make-up and nails, weight, complexion and a host of other appearance-related factors. If you have something slightly “off” in the aforementioned areas, then people might laugh at you, make low key snarky comments, perhaps even be bold enough to say something to your face or full-on avoid you. Women in general are catty and often immature, especially here. Unfortunately, your appearance, marital status and perhaps socioeconomic status will matter more than having actual substance as a human being. Sure it happens in various parts of the world, but it is certainly flagrant here.
Be yourself.—No one who expects you to change who you are to suit them is worth your time. You’ll never satisfy everyone anyway.—There will always be some rude, bitter female who has her nose in the air, trying to look down on someone she sees as “less than” her.
You don't have to be fashionable per se, just neat and tidy.
If you're unsure where to begin, try copying what the mannequins/models at UNIQLO or GU wear.
And if you like, maybe go to a salon and get a trendy hair cut etc for a 'image change'
Hope that helps :)
Yes, I must admit the cheap prices have beckoned me over and I’ve bought a couple of things from those shops. Guess I could buy a couple more. Appreciate your advice.
These people sound like they suck. I dunno if this is a Zoomer thing — who insults someone’s fucking phone photos??? — or if it’s just a “your friend group” thing. Either way, I suggest getting new friends.
Ahh, my apologies, I should have been clearer and will edit my post but I was taking pictures of the friend. And during the review stage she was disappointed in the pictures I had took.
Well, you arent Japanese to Japanese people unfortunately. Even people born in Japan that study abroad for a just a year can face alienation and be considered 'not Japanese' anymore sometimes. As far as clothes, Id say the big thing is most women dress pretty conservatively, if you are wearing tank tops and short shorts or tight pants, that would be judged by people around you. You are probably best served just going shopping and buying a few things at shopping malls that you like if you want to wear things people around you are wearing.
I would caution though that if you are trying to be accepted as 'japanese' this is a losing battle. Being Japanese is more than just your skin color and appearance, its all the customs and cultural practices and everday interactions that you dont know and dont do quite right, its the mindset thats all different. Dont waste your time trying to change that. All we can do is do our best be respectful, people can accept you for who you are, you dont need to be 'japanese'.
I think it's worth having an intellectual understanding of fashion for the same reason it's worth studying psychology, it affords you some power and control in interpersonal situations. People *will* treat you differently and you can leverage that, to blend in and disappear or to set yourself apart. It's almost like a communication medium. Unfortunately, what most Japanese people seem to communicate with fashion is their in-group membership and determination to fit in--it's just a more labor-intensive uniform--so I can see why you're not interested.
Your cousin needs to stay in his lane tho 😬 I've gotten this treatment from "friends" in the past and it was really objectifying and made me trust them less.
You sound comfortable as you are, that shouldn't be under estimated. You be You. The friend sounds awfully superficial, especially the comment about dressing for photo ops...
Not really.
Rule of thumb is, if you don't look dumb, you look good.
95% of people don't care, and the only time they do is when you look *really* dorky. Like, wear-that-on-purpose dorky. You're most definitely fine!
These people just sound very young, self conscious and vain. As a mid-late 20’s adult nobody is making fun of anybody’s iPhone being too old (especially not a 12) and people aren’t commenting negatively about anybody’s hair or clothes that much.
Their comments say more about your friends/family than it says about you. They’re obviously so cripplingly self conscious and lack confidence to the point they worry about stuff Like that
I'm probably pretty similar. Fully Japanese by blood, grew up overseas for the first 25 years, only came on vacation for a month or two max, able to speak but shit at kanji as a kid, etc...
Some of your issues have nothing to do with Japan and more to do with just being young with peers that are young (i.e. "your iphone is too old").
But you probably need to make up your mind about one thing for sure. Do you want to A) fit-in with the majority (i.e. be seen as Japanese) or B) be accepted for who you are (i.e. someone that was raised abroad and therefore culturally foreign)?
It's kind of hard to do both at the same time, especially for someone only planning on staying in Japan temporarily, but you seem to have complaints about both.
If you want to go with A), you generally want to dress a bit tidier around anyone that isn't family or super close. I usually wear a raggy t-shirt, shorts/jeans, flipflops just to walk around the neighborhood on my own, but I'll wear clothes that are a bit cleaner, fit better, etc... when I'm going out anywhere. Observe and ask your peers about what you could do to fit in.
If you want to go with B), you just need to embrace the foreignness and just respond with "You're damn right I don't know what the hell you're talking about, explain!" and be ok with being treated as a gaijin that happens to speak better than average Japanese.
You can try to balance A) and B) if you plan on staying here long term, but it's probably impossible if you're only here for a short-term language school.
Try wearing something nicer on weekends, consider it role-playing or being a secret agent. Your post reminds me of my former self until I was diagnosed with autism. I didn't care about how people saw me and didn't care about what they thought of my appearance, I still don't for the most part. But I kinda enjoy acting and the fancy clothes let me be someone I couldn't be 24/7, which I don't have the energy for anyway. It also sounds like your friends and cousin see a beautiful woman behind the dreary clothes and want to help you to bring her out. They may be overstepping their bounds at times but I bet they see something you don't. I'd say take a chance on a new version of you, at least for a little bit - you can always go back to 'original you'. Start with the weekends and see where it goes. Have fun with it, you're 19 after all, you still have a lot to learn. Experience is the best teacher, but you'll be limited if you never try new things.
To be honest, your cousin and friend sound strange and judgemental, although it’s possible they are just immature. Your cousin especially seems a bit too interested in your personal choices. I think it’s always good to be a bit skeptical of anyone who seemingly tries too hard to push their views on you, or to sell you something, or to convince you of something.
As to your question, the way you described yourself is completely fine. Don’t change the way you dress for other people. Do what makes you feel happy and comfortable. And if the people around you make comments like the ones you’ve mentioned, it might be time to question whether you really want people like that around you.
Wow, your background sounds like mine!
I'm also a *kikokushijo* in my late 20s who moved back last year and I haven't really found myself conforming to dress style. Instead it seems to be values and mannerisms that will always set us apart.
That being said, I'm a guy, so there's definitely less social pressure on me in that sense. I would respectfully ignore your cousin, no one should really be dictating how another person dresses.
Just find out what you like in life and stick to it! Have a good one!
What about only if you want to and enjoy it? if you do it every day to only please the others around you, I think you are forcing yourself into a fake sort of acting. It could take a toll mentally later in your life. Advice is ok, almost forcing not so much imho.
Japan is infamous for its societal pressure to conform. "The nail that sticks out gets hammered down" and all that. Regardless of what they say, you ARE Japanese. You are also 'Western' (I wanted to say your actual country, but you didn't specify). You're fully both of those things. Sorry to answer your question with a question, but, is fitting in worth changing who you are? My advice is to find the value in your 'outsiderness'. You may not know every famous Japanese food or shop, but you know a heck of a lot about life outside of Japan. Be who you are, wherever you are. Wish you luck, OP
Very interesting discussion here. I'd say that both perspectives -- wear what you want, and dress better -- are true. I'd have your friends help you 'dress better' as a learning experience. Any human endeavour involves balancing the personal freedom with fitting in with others.
That being said, many Japanese women I've met in big cities have been incredibly shallow. You dressing how you want is a good test of how genuine a friendship is. You have to pity them though, they are trapped in this culture, and are too terrified to do other than conform.
I think now and gradually, unless you’re low on the work ladder, people are definitely dressing more for themselves and to express themselves. There are “prissy” girls who dress more traditionally feminine, sure (very much like the 90s when I first arrived). But look around next time you’re out in Tokyo on the trains: lots of girls who seem to be saying “you can’t dictate how we dress anymore.” Jeans, baggy clothes, practical shoes. Really depends on the crowd you hang out with. But I do still see groups of friends from younger to older who dress like each other.
You do you girl!
Japan is super image conscious and lookism definitely exists. Do people treat you differently if you dress nicely? Yes but that’s true for any country.
I’m 100% Japanese but grew up in the States so I totally understand where you’re coming from. When I explain Japanese lookism, here’s what I say. Style wise, Japanese people are well put together, especially going out into the city. You’ll rarely see Japanese woman in a tank top, shorts and flip flops in say Aoyama even in the summer. And there’s always a “trend” most woman follow with fashion/hair/makeup.
I don’t follow any trends, I’m mostly dressed in all black, tall and not skin & bones so I stick out like a thumb in Tokyo but who cares? Unless there’s a dress code, I’m gonna be in comfortable clothes in a style that I think I look best in and like because I wanna be me! Don’t wanna look like all the other sea of women here.
Yes you’ll sometimes get the looks or comments and some of them will not accept you since we don’t look like or think like a typical Japanese but that’s who we are. We are unique because of that and that’s a beautiful thing! Embrace it and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
LOL. I wear flip-flops, t-shirts, and shorts for most of the year. Sometimes people comment—say going out to dinner. I pay the whole fucking bill. Then they shut up. Fuck ‘em.
It could just be a generational thing. Like my friend groups previously were never into taking pictures or caring what we wore but a friend here complained about my clothes so when we go out I let her pick my outfit. I don’t really care what the clothes I’m wearing look like but if it makes her happy lol.
It’s also possible these people in your life are just assholes.
Hi fellow Japanese that was raised abroad with shit Japanese skills. Well, I'm half, but either way.
In general, this applies worldwide, but the better you look, the better you're treated. Some countries push this more than others, and Japan is one such country.
But you don't have to listen. I certainly don't. I go out without makeup and thanks to losing a ton of weight, all my clothes are too big for me and I'm too cheap to buy new ones (plus they're comfy). None of my friends or coworkers have ever commented on my style or looks in a negative way, and I've never been treated badly or differently.
I have similar problems. Coming from an African culture I wear lots of colourful clothes with lots of patterns. My first girlfriend would keep trying to buy me "gifts" of clothes she wanted me to wear and complain about my clothes.
During my time here I caved in a little for work and for social events I sometimes wear more muted colours. But don't let them force you into a box. I've seen too many Japanese people forced into stuff they don't like because society demands it.
You have to do what **you** want. I have no way of knowing what's running through their heads. My basic recommendation for hilarity is to start offering to take their photos for them (maybe amuse yourself learning about angle and things like that). And if they go well can't we have a picture with you, drop all appearance of cheer from your face and look at them stonily. Maybe say, "If you aren't capable of taking a decent picture of me, don't bother me." Ooh. Sorry, I was feeling hostile towards them. And maybe tell your cousin if he wants to be a life coach, take a friggin' class.
Edit to add: Every time they make a remark about your appearance, drop all expression from your face, look them in the eye coldly. Smile to reward the kind of remark you like. Stone-face to show contempt for the other remarks.
I wear my SpongeBob SquarePants t-shirt proudly here in public. I wouldn't do that back in my home country....
Fuck it. I'm over 40. I would, even in my home country. Japan taught me how to not give a fuck about other people and their stupid expectations about my own life. Fuck that noise. Dress with whatever you like and feel comfy in.
it differs from people.. like me when i first got here in japan.. i weighed 50kg and im 5 feet flat...
mom and other people told that i should loose weight atleast 43-45 kilos is at best... so i could fit in fine and that clothes would actually fit me... but for me i think my weight is just fine... i didn't listen to them...
If you didn't grow up inside the Japanese society and its education system you won't fit no matter how much you try, or how fitting clothing you wear. So it's pointless to even try. It's easy to spot a Japanese just by their body language or the way they walk, so clothes won't really help.
A jp person who grew up abroad is basically a foreigner at this point (and you'll be treated as one anyway), because your brain is wired so differently, your values are different, etc. It's a very homogeneous society so even a slight deviation from the local behavior will make yous stand out.
This country is all about the looks. The pressure of being a shakaijin will be infinite and you will never be able to keep up with the insane expectations. It's why salarymen on trains keep sitting still like a statue as if they are being observed during an interview, and why people are so scared to show their phone screen of what they're doing, or the cover of the book they're reading You are always expected to look like a professional in public and you're judged for not being one 24/7. Welcome to Asia's problem of lookism.They will always keep pointing out things about you like the comments on your clothes and photos. (And kami forbid, if you gain some extra weight). There will be no end to this.
Do you really need this pressure in your life? I say stop worrying about fitting in and embrace your difference, otherwise it will affect your mental health.
As someone whose clothes often don't fit in Japanese society (mostly vivid colors and sometimes relatively revealing clothes that most Japanese don't wear, much less as often as me), I say you don't need to worry about that stuff. If you want friends, you want those you don't need to change your style to befriend. Worry about that when you have to get a job and they have clothing guidelines.
We are in probably the least fashionable era since the early 2000s. I see teens dressed like they rolled off the set of Friends. I was much younger when that fashion was first in style and all the young guys I see look really old to me, so, your cousin needs to take a seat.
Your other friend seems too interested in their social media look. And the comments about not knowing a famous ramen place are weird. If you were quite close, one could chalk it up to good natured teasing. But based on the little information here, it seems like she's hoping you'd be her Japanese local guide to all the cool niche spots she could post to her social media. Depending on your relationship, it may be worth it to have a talk with her about the things she's doing that bother you.
Sounds like it is time to change your friend circle.
There were people like that around me especially when I was around 19-20. For your own piece of mind it is best to be honest to yourself. They don't like it when you don't dress like them? F\*ck 'em! Find new friends. I know many Japanese people who don't give a sh\*t about the these kind of superficial things. Your friends are trying to pull off a "but it is how it is done in Japan". No, not necessarily.
I wear oversized t-shirts too, but they’re band shirts and come in “one size.” I try to style them a bit, though, like wearing them with skirts.
I think fashion is different in the US compared to Japan. US seems to be more comfort over style. And clothes people wear out might be seen as “ roomwear” in Japan. I remember fighting with my friends that “leggings are not substitutes for trousers” in the US. I just feel super uncomfortable going out like that. Basically feels like walking around outside in pajamas.
That might be why you’re getting comments on your fashion. People really take care of their hair in Japan too. If you’re lazy about fashion, taking care of hair can make a difference.
I’m super lazy about hair and makeup, but I do keep to some standards of “this is too much of a bum to be seen outside in.” I wear a lot of hats when I’m in between perms and bought myself a bangs wig for easy styling.
You don’t have to follow latest trends, just avoid what looks like roomwear/pajamas when going out. Uniqlo and GU are perfectly fine brands, you don’t need designer to look good. And go to a salon sometimes. They give you a head massage too, so at least go for that aspect of it. I’m not a massage person, but those really feel good. And even a conservative style done at a salon can make you feel refreshed and more confident about your appearance.
Edit: for myself, I find I dress better when I have more confidence in my appearance. So sometimes it’s about doing what makes us more confident in ourselves will help us look better outwardly to others, regardless of actual fashion choices.
Don’t worry about your phone. I went from iPhone SE to gen 2 SE. If anyone gives me grief, I like how perfectly it fits in my hand. Can’t argue against that. Then I get a comment about, “yeah, the newer phones are kind of too big to hold comfortably.” I get made fun for using old gen tech all the time and just roll with it. Whatever, I like it so why change it while it’s still working?
If *you* want to, go ahead and try some new styles, that’s your choice. Sometimes it can be a bit scary to move out of a certain comfort zone, but it can also be a bit fun.
The main thing is don’t let your friends or cousin push you into wearing something you feel uncomfortable in. If you don’t want to wear skirts, cool. If you don’t eat to wear a tight top, cool. It’s all up to you.
But the loose T-shirt and pants look most Americans wear around is definitely not common in Japan.
Japan fashionable? Lol. They dress in Grey bags and slippers/sneakers. And students from jp school are Chinese and Vietnamese. They dress like they on camping or something...
I never got such comments and I'm also generally the "t-shirt and jeans" type of person. So I suspect you get more comments because youre Japanese particularly in appearance.
Honestly I would say don't mind it and stop hanging out with those jerk friends. But if you'd like to get less comments, just go to Uniqlo and go crazy. Their clothes are quite comfortable and pretty much everyone wears them so...
But there are tons of less fashionable japanese women. Tons of tomboys too. So.. don't worry too much. Yeah, in the heart of Tokyo everyone tends to dress up a lot but if you go a bit away from central Tokyo you'll see that people are more relaxed.
Depends on where you live. Most countries and areas care a little. If you don't fit one of the standard patterns, then you stand out and are likely seen as a foreigner. I mean, if you go in to the suburbs in Canada as a guy and are dressed up like most men in Aoyama or Ginza, you'll stand right out.
So you'll stand out here in Japan if you are in clothes that most are not used to seeing. Now if you're in any large city (Paris, etc), that goes double. Triple in Tokyo or Seoul or any other monoethnic society as there is less diversity.
This is even more important if you look Japanese.
If you don't care, none of this matters, but I assume you care because you made this post.
I think fashion can be seen this way in Japan - the more attractive and physically fit you are, the more lenient people will be about what you wear. If you look like a model or you have muscles like Baki, pretty much anything goes because most things will already look good on you. When I first moved here I was a 5'9, nearly 100kg, and my parents are Vietnamese. I also liked graphic tees and cargo shorts. To say was judged would be putting it mildly.
I slimmed down to 75kg, started bodybuilding, and now wear slim fit shirts and jeans most of the time, substituting the jeans with mid-thigh shorts for summers to show off the legs, and the difference in how the world around me reacts is night and day. Nothing I wear is amazing nor particularly fancy. Just a shirt and pants, that's it. No layers, no real coordination. But because the rest of me changed, so did the attitude.
I honestly don't think I would've gotten married if I had just stayed the way I was, despite what my wife tells me when I show her old photos as she tries hard to contain her laughter at just how terrible I looked.
My wife calls how people treat each other due to fashionability the イケメンだから effect. Imagine a scene in a drama where the tall handsome guy pats a girl on the head. Perfectly fine because he's handsome. Now think about the news about the short old politician being raked over the coals for patting his subordinates on the head. She jokes that if that politcian was 6'4 and handsome there would've never been any reports of misconduct.
> I think fashion can be seen this way in Japan - the more attractive and physically fit you are, the more lenient people will be about what you wear.
In any parts of the world you meant?
I think dressing well is a form of good manners. If you show too much or your relaxed self people take less of what you say seriously if it comes to more important manners. For example if you might have more positive feedback if you’re teaching English to adults in a nice dress shirt vs an anime tee.
They'll stop when you say you're going to or coming from work. Some professions signal authenticity by dressing "sloppily" or strangely
Anything creative.
Writers, copywriters, designers (graphic, fashion, web ...), photographers, illustrators, artists, coders, and so on.
Dentsu has standing orders to its creatives to never, ever wear business outfits.
Otherwise clients won't believe you're a _real_ creative.
God forbid mistaking you for a _suit_ 営業！
You do you! My comment got moderated because I included links, but what you describe is not that far from the yama-kei style. If you want to make it more feminine, you could add a smock over your T-shirts now and then. Smocks are so simple you could even make them yourself out of fabric you choose. Yama girls sometimes wear skirts or shorts that are stretchy with leggings underneath. The idea is that you could go mountain climbing with these clothes, hence the name 'yama.'
>Should I really pay more attention to my style and buy more fashionable and on trend clothes and dress better? Is it essential for fitting in in this society?
If as you said you don't look shabby or unclean then nobody sane will care. I would say it mostly depend on the kind of people you want to hang out with/meet. You're probably not going to hit it off with the shittok/instagram crowd but people into sports or cars or whatever probably don't care much as long as you don't look like a bum.
If you look good no one will really care. If you don't then you may need a boost. I'm a caucasian male, pretty muscular and I only wear 500yen tshirts and Jeans and I don't feel it ever had any impact. But if you don't unluckily that's one of the first things people will notice. Society sucks 😔
Just wear really bland clothes and you'll be fine. Nothing flashy unless you're going to Lawson or Family mart, then it's all bets off.
I've got kids so I wear dumb shit from that cheap clothing store, forgot the name. Like One Piece, Doraemon, Pokemon t-shirts lol. I tell myself I do it to make the kids happy, but really it's for me
Just pick something from uniqlo, you’ll see someone else wearing it within 5 minutes if not already at the store lol.
But seriously just find a look you like and feel comfortable in and try it out. Fashion is more about comfort and confidence than anything. You’ll only look bad if your clearly uncomfortable
I have say this in this sub a few times but imma put it out here again that: regardless of your fashion style / language skills, how a typical Japanese person will treat you will change depending on your skin color / nationality.
If you're white / black, as long as you're clean, it's really whatever. They will consider you top of the food chain anyway so do whatever you want. If you have first world passport but Asian face (aka yellow skin) then it's random - people I gone to school with will be nice nonetheless to non Japanese speaking Asian, but to stay friends after graduation? Maybe about 10%. If you're Indian and similar looking - then again it's random. People from big cities like Indian food so they will at least do not insult you to your face. Then again I studied international studies so the Japanese I knew from school already was on the open minded side of the spectrum.
My point is, as long as you're clean and hygenic don't smell etc, you should do you. There are so many fashion style and clothing trend change every single year. I don't see anything wrong with the way you said you dress. I see those style all the single time.
I think it depends on where you're trying to fit into. If you're planning on living in Japan to become a fashion designer or hair stylist, your style will be important. But it sounds like you're currently talking about fitting in with your peers.
I'd dismiss their comments, and go find new friends. Why should you have to change yourself, especially when you personally don't want to?
If there's anything you should be careful of in Japan, it's the pressure to conform as well as their beauty standards set especially for women. Chasing after these things to please others will absolutely destroy your mental health.
Wear what you like and keep using your perfectly functional phone (what a superficial thing to shame someone about!)
Don't let your friend suck you into spending lots of time on fashion your friend cares about if you don't care about it.
However fitting in does matter in japan so it might not hurt to copy the people around you when you go to replace clothes next.
Most people here are obsessed with appearances. It will make your life easier if you try to improve your looks. But if you’re going to be here just for a while, it doesn’t matter.
Define fitting in.
If you want to be perceived from the outside to be a native Japanese person. If you dress the part, you would fit in as long as your complexion are Japanese to being with. However you will be uphold to the same value standard as a native person. If your mindset, mannerisms, culture doesn't fit into the "norm", once you start interacting with others they would notice that. Some who believe that it is polite to do so would tell you.
FYI, I was initially in Engineering at a local uni. Fitting in there would meant wearing a chequered shirts and pants or t-shirt and pants. I'm a guy who was raised in Singapore where we value comfort over style/conformity. Now I wear polo shirts, pants and sandals when its warm. I'm also in a different faculty now so there's less of a need to conform to a particular stereotype.
You probably don't have to do everything the same. It's not quite like it seems from afar. But maybe they won't take a chance unless they think you are excited to share, and with them that means sharing... something that might happen to be conformity.
I would just take it as the opportunity to try it out and see what the difference is in the way you feel, maybe it would help you to understand them better, then you go back to being comfortable or adopt some new things you learned?
First of all, your “friend” is being rude. Your cousin may be coming from a good place, but isn’t being great either. At the end of the day the way you present yourself is your own choice.
I will say that it heavily depends on how you want to be treated. I’m not ethnically Japanese, but I notice a huge difference between when I dress and do my makeup the “Japanese” way and when I do it the “American” way. I don’t really dress American much anymore, but when I do dress down I notice I’m treated like a tourist. People are hesitant to talk to me, they’re ruder, they use gestures instead of approaching me. When I dress Japanese and do my hair and makeup I’m treated like a local. I know I don’t look physically like a local but people can tell I’ve lived here awhile and assume I speak Japanese. Tbh a giant factor in making the conscious decision to adopt Japanese style is so I’m treated better.
I will tell you something.
I lost my country due to war. So all my shit travel with me in one suitcase nowadays.
I had my one comfortable and streetwear style with a pinch of fashion back in the days. (Girls said I’m hella stylish).
Now I’m in Japan, and as I had just a bag with none of my favourite clothes, I was fine till the moment my mind cool down.
After a year, when my mind became calmer I wanted to update my things a bit.
So what I’m trying to say is, check your clo, if you really need some updates. When you will feel real need, don’t buy low quality products. Buy one that will be awesome and you will enjoy long time. In this way you will feel good, and your clothes will speak for you as well.
P.S. Just read what you wear, I wear probably the same in Japan.
Don’t let other people disturb you;)
I think you should do whatever you want and absolutely not fall into the trap your cousin is laying out for you.
I also think it’s never a bad idea to explore your sense of fashion, especially while living in a big city.
So if you truly want to learn more about fashion and this is coming from a good place and not one of shame, I think Tokyo is an excellent place to start. Idk where you are coming from but a lot of places just aren’t great shopping areas. Tokyo is incredible for that.
I would not make any sudden moves. Come to Tokyo, observe other people and pick and choose what you like and then try to find those styles. Observe and gather information. What is a certain style or item called? Where is a good place to get it? Can you find it on sale?
Whatever you do don’t spend a bunch of money up front. Take it slow. Absolutely try things on before you buy and don’t buy online unless you know for a fact it will fit. Try and branch out from Uniqlo if you feel comfortable to do so.
You’ll be fine no matter what you wear. Fashion can be really fun and open up doors to meet all kinds of people. But it’s never worth going broke for or compromising mental health or your sense of self worth.
If you dress like a tourist people will treat you like one.
I'm not sure about high fashion and all that but if you want to fit in generally dressing like a local does make a difference in how people approach you at a first impression.
I'm half Japanese dealing with similarish circumstances in Japan, but it's just my family. I go to the gym and my goal is to have something similar to LeanBeafPatty (shes a fitness influencer you can find on Instagram). Because of the muscles I've gained so far, I'm pretty big compared to my family. I get called fat sometimes, not as an insult but as a statement and they're like "why would you want to do that? You should go back to being skinny!" I definitely stand out in my clothing sometimes too, but it's just cause my style isnt necessarily something trendy/stereotypical here. I just wear what I want to wear and what makes me feel good. What I've learned from my experiences here, is to stop giving a shit about others opinions. Wear and do what you want to do, don't let others control you. The less I started caring the happier I was. I feel like their mentality is pretty unhealthy anyways.
I do kiss peoples asses sometimes when I need to, if it's something professional or something like that, but for the most part, I just live how I want to live while still being respectful of the culture. Your clothing of choice is not disrespectful, and if it makes you happy go for it.
>For anyone interested I mainly wear T-shirts (eg. Oversized ones or 2 designer brand ones that were gifts from family), solid colour button up blouses, black/navy cargo pants from UNIQLO, 1 pair of jeans from GU….
If you dress up like this and still be judged, then it's your friends are the problems, not Japan.
That's like the most basic style you can find in any skater/hiphop-style fashion street for youngsters here, like American mura in Osaka.
https://preview.redd.it/vcpsznsk2r5d1.jpeg?width=1707&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de0c6cae2dc9b93ea8eb877db27f33ca6e55a893
Next time tou see them pull up in this
>I am here to study, not to make myself look better. I would definitely prefer to put more time energy and money into learning and cultivating my mind rather than my appearance.
I think this is great, fantastic even, and personally I'm not one to care for fashion.
On the other hand, why not take it as a positive step? Learn the skill "How to dress like them". It doesn't mean you have to all the time, in your private time, or even subscribe to their ideology.
In their own way, I'm sure they're trying to be helpful, and even though it might clash with your own values, finding people who will go out of their way to honestly try and help you sincerely is something to be treasured?
I dislike how shallow the world is, but at the same time, looking "nicer" and "fitting in" is undeniably helpful.
Too many people care a lot about looks here. Like, a lot a lot. The amount of times I’ve heard people say they’d choose their partner based on them being cool or beautiful alone is very surprising to me since personality is everything (in my opinion). That being said, do whatever you wanna do and don’t worry about it. *but*, if it bothers you, then you should adapt to what they’re saying because the comments won’t stop.
No need to dress up, not unless you want to fit in with ppl in the trend. But if you don't mind just being you, then you are fine.
I'm also just wearing tshirt shorts/pants from uniqlo. Same shirt that I cycle every week.
I looks like a Japanese bit apperantly the way I able to use random tshirt and short pants without shaving all my 無駄毛 on summer is a give away that I am no japanese XD
In this case, I'd say pick only the green M&Ms out of the whole bag.
Clothing nicely (not exactly trendy) is expected. Especially if you're attending meet ups, events or gatherings etc, as people will assume you are not giving enough consideration to those who are also attending if you're sticking out like a sore thumb.
And going out of your box from time to time is a good thing.
I just believe it's better to take the valuable advice, but ignore some of them which you don't wanna acknowledge.
Wear clothes that are comfortable for you, but also not too out of the norm etc is probably the way to go.
But if you're just going out alone or attending classes etc, then it doesn't really matter TBH.
It's probably difference depending on your town, but here in Kyoto locals do somehow dress with a different vibe ti visitors. Really shows.in August, when Kyoto guys are mostly STILL in long trousers. If they wear shorts it looks like decision rather than a habit.
Yes, if you want to fit in dress accordingly, but not slavishly. Observe the vibe and "hum the same tune" in your own way. This includes posture and movement.
Good luck!
I want to give advice, but I feel like my situation is too different to be applicable.
I'm a mid-30s male and don't give a flying fuck about fashion. I find the entire culture around fashion vapid and boring.
I'm someone who has no qualms going to the convenience store in the late afternoons on a Saturday still in my pajamas lol
The big difference for me though is I have already established myself here. There isn't really much I even want that putting more effort in fashion would even get me.
I'm already married, have plenty of friends and a good job. For me there are 0 reasons to choose style over comfort.
For you, a younger woman trying to fit in, I can see the benefit in gritting your teeth and enduring the lookism nonsense if it helps you stand out less.
For me personally, any friend who cared enough about fashion to try and change how I dress wouldn't be my friend for very long, but I know that might not be easy when you are trying to make friends at school.
You’ll never fit in as a Japanese raised in Japan, so your cousin can leave those expectations at the gate. But he is right about needing to present your best self. Lookism is HUGE here and people will treat you varying degrees based on your appearance. You don’t necessarily have to wear what he suggests, many female styles here suck. It’s all about elevating your best self. But if you look like you rolled out of bed to attend a college course and have a ponytail, don’t expect others to really interact with or gravitate towards you. Even if you having a glowing personality.
The number of Japanese hetero couples where the woman's fashion savvy makes you wonder if the guy in T-shirt, jeans, and sneakers is really her date ... or just her kid brother.
Yes.
Most people dress like garbage in North America imo. Most people dress nice here imo. Especially women.
Do whatever you want but know that people respect other people that dress nice here.
Paying more attention to what I wear really improved my image, my confidence andy overall social standing so I don't think it's a negative thing to do.
Its weird that you feel so attached to dressing like you are homeless.
It must be a problem since everybody is commenting on it.
In Japan the image you give is extra important too, so no wonder you don't fit in with other Japanese people.
It’s a very image conscious society. It was here that I first heard of the concept of choosing your clothes not to express yourself, but rather to show respect to other people (which does exist in other countries but here it was talked about explicitly). That being said, you don’t have to dress up in clothes you don’t like. There are plenty of “unfashionable” people. You will be judged for it, but you’d be judged if you were wearing any particular style, so if you’re not into clothes/fashion/beauty, then just ignore your cousin and classmates.
I've never heard of anything like that before. I'm pretty sure most people just buy what they like and don't care much about "dressing for others". It honestly sounds like one of those things someone made up about "the mysterious county of Japan"
It’s not so much “dressing for others” it’s more “looking presentable for the purpose of making people around you feel comfortable and not see you as a weirdo” tbh
That's not unique to Japan at all. That's just common basic decency
My situation is similar to the OPs. The first example that came to mind are taxis in JP vs USA. In Japan, taxis are meticulously clean, and the driver often wears a uniform, a hat and white gloves. They're overly polite and only talk when spoken to. In the US (specifically Boston in this case), the tax driver wears whatever, oftentimes with the several of the top buttons unbuttoned, the front seat area has food wrappers & random sheets of paper laying around, and during the whole ride, the driver is talking to a buddy of his on the cell phone. I personally don't care either way as long as I get from point A to point B, but the expectations for professionalism is different. There was another reddit post earlier today about Target vs Walmart so I mention it. Japanese people dress like they're going to Target. American people dress like they're going to Walmart.
But that's a job. In the Netherlands taxi drivers also tend to wear suits. It's just part of being a professional. That doesn't have to do with personal life like in OP's post
Boston! If they bring self-driving cabs to Boston, the cars better be able to shout *_Learn how to drive!_* and honk every time the vehicle in front of them slows down. I got hired as a cabbie in Boston despite zero knowledge of the city (though I knew Cambridge) for the simple reason that I had had a haircut recently. Rumor had it that the cabs had faulty brakes so you dropped a cinder block through a hole in the floor instead. I ended up coming to Japan right before I was scheduled to start driving.
Huh, I've always thought that people who go to Target dress like they go to Target and people who go to Walmart dress like they go to Walmart regardless of their ethnicity. And damn, I hate to be the poor Japanese woman dressed to the nines being lumped in with people dressed like "they're going to Target." You could have picked Daimaru vs. Uniqlo or something. And I have no idea what taxi drivers at work have to do with casually cavorting with classmates.
Reddit has an amazing ability to talk about the main subject while completely delving into other subjects that completely fail to address the main subject. Taxi drivers in Boston is not the point here, bro.
the 2nd sentence was all you needed to say. my comment wasn't about taxi drivers in Boston either. it was a metaphor. but i concede your point. there are two types of people. those who can extrapolate information and others who...
Let's be honest though, Japan as a whole is much more image-conscious and concerned with physical appearances, including fashion.
The standard of what constitutes a decent outfit is fairly high in Japan though. In OP’s case a young woman wearing baggy tshirts and cargo pants is far enough outside of the norm that she sticks out immediately and it could be considered inappropriate enough to attract comment.
> I'm pretty sure most people just buy what they like and don't care much about "dressing for others". Do you think most men enjoy wearing suits in 35°C heat? Because I don't so I wear a T-shirt, jeans, or cargo shorts to the office. And while that is pretty much normal office attire where I am from, most people in Japan would not dare to go to work like that.
Most people in Japan are forbidden to go to the office like that by their dress code.
So... you'd say it's important to dress a certain way to fit in?
No, with a dress code, it's required to dress a certain way at work to maintain employment.
And why does the dress code exist?
To present a respectable workforce as well as the whole Japanese uniformity, but not sure how that applies at all to how people dress in private.
Because companies want to present a specific image. It's not at the request of the employees.
Yes, because culturally, there is a much greater emphasis on outward appearance. It's the cultural environment that leads to dress code policies like that. The extensive uniform culture of Japan is just another expression of those cultural values.
Lol you owned him so hard he can’t reply
Ugh, neither Japanese nor your own culture.
Stunning and brave
Japanese people do a lot of stuff just because and will struggle to adequately explain “why” they are doing it. Nobody is consciously doing it out of respect for others but that doesn’t mean there’s also not an element of that even if it’s the really just the thing pressure of society.
> I'm pretty sure most people just buy what they like and don't care much about "dressing for others". Nearly everything the average Japanese person does after setting foot outside their front door is for others. That's what the entire concept of the "public face" is about.
I've heard of bizarre and inane fashion strictness, but then I also see thousands of vanilla dressed Japanese people so again its this typical thing of gaijins not understanding that there is no fitting in, no Japanese society outside of public face, and if you have a fashion problem than you're dealing with one of the many toxic cliques.
It's tatemae, a core social concept in Japan (in duality with honne). I would argue that if OP is close to her cousin or friends, they are actually saying these things because they want the best outcomes for her.
It’s not unheard of tbh! Culturally speaking it comes from kimono and yukata. For example yukata‘s worn in summer tend to have cool or cold prints to make others feel cool and fresh in the summer heat. I learned this from a kimono teacher.
Japanese people wear kimonos three times a year at most, it's not 1850 anymore.
I think you may have missed their point? "Culturally speaking it comes from kimono and yukata."
I guess we know different Japanese people then ;)
Just because that's true for traditional clothing doesn't mean it's applicable to western style everyday clothes as well. If OP's post were about traditional clothes and dressing up for events, i would absolutely understand why looks matter, but in this case it just sounds so much more hostile than what you explain
I didn’t say that it is applicable for western style clothing, it is just a comment about why in Japan some might dress for occasion.
People here walk in crocs and women wear clothes my grandmothers wore when they were still alive. As long as your clothing doesn't scream "tourist", it's fine.
I think the main way you scream "tourist" is wearing shorts.
Where are you?!? Shorts are all over Tokyo in the heat…
Few women wear shorts. For some reason they don’t like to show their bare legs. Go to a sports day on tbd hottest day of the year at school and all the moms are in long pants and jeans. More men are wearing shorts these days compared to previously.
Damn. It must kinda suck to be a human where you live in the warmer months. Here in Osaka, legs out is extremely common for both men and women. Lots of skirts, shorts, and shorts that look like skirts. That being said, it's more fashionable to have only one pair of limbs uncovered. If your legs are out, it's fashionable to have long sleeves.
> For some reason they don’t like to show their bare legs probably because they're afraid of the sun and getting even the slightest of tans
I think that’s true of the upper body. I think for lower body that’s less a concern. I think they find it uncouth.
I dont see Japanese people wearing them
I've counted so many Japanese men in my area wearing shorts and walking in crocs as soon as it hit 30 degrees in Tokyo...... Maybe it depends on where you live?
Yes more men wearing them on the weekend. Their wives? No.
I dont notice what men wear at all
You need to look harder 😉
imo the better you look, the better you will be treated, and more opportunities will come your way. better customer service, better reactions when speaking to strangers. people take more interest in you, there's no good reason to not try and look your best lookism is strong in Japan, and as your experiencing people are bringing it up to you. Better to go with the grain than against it. It may be petty, but the rules are different here.
>there's no good reason to not try and look your best The good reasons are time, effort, money Depending on OP's goals in life, those resources could be spent elsewhere at a greater benefit
>Depending on OP's goals in life, those resources could be spent elsewhere at a greater benefit Or lack of goals. Everyone puts on shirts and pants in the morn. An effort to dress nicer is not that much different than the norm. Her own friends and family that most likely love her are telling her she could use a makeover, and theyre prob onto something. If OP was that successful despite her fashion, I don't think she would be approached this way with it. If this is a Japanese vs western thing, then own it that way and stick up for yourself
Honestly? Not really. Basic improvements to your appearance will open so many opportunities and change the course of your life so much that spending basic effort to reach a reasonable standard is *always* worth it, and if you haven’t realized that you should probably consider doing some yourself. Appearing well groomed, reasonably well dressed, and reasonably fit is literally life changing and will improve your impact in every social situation both from people’s reactions and your own confidence.
>Depending on OP's goals in life, those resources could be spent elsewhere at a greater benefit FYI this is dead wrong. Not saying I like it, just saying that's reality.
Actually this. I think lookism definitely exists strongly. Especially as a foreigner. And Japanese people, not every time but more often than not, will judge you on how you look and treat you accordingly ig. I mean it's not been very obvious but very subtle from my personal observation. I guess since there is a lot of 'reading the room' required in Japanese culture, even if there's nothing to read into, they might very well read into your appearance. That's not great but since they might, to prevent it from happening you got to dress well just to skip that unease and self-consciousness you would feel. In Japan, you have to think what other people are thinking of you and act accordingly so this kind of behaviour would be natural even if it is kind of weird for non-natives.
Yes, you get my point perfectly. I went through absolute hell when I first moved to Japan. Had to refine and recalibrate and it's still in progress. The better you look, the nicer people are. Better jobs, more flexible workplace environment. If you look lost, people are more willing to offer assistance if you're on the better side appearance wise. Other dynamics also exist based on what kind of foreigner you are but regardless, looking your best is a *defense* against some of the darker sides of Japanese people one may encounter. Doesn't guarantee a perfect life here but things can get really bad, and if you don't look like someone worth helping then you ain't gonna get help lol
🤌🤌 truth That need to recalibrate yourself appearance-wise was something I resonate with. Working on it atm. Of course, this is a personal preference as a person tho. Ik people who haven't changed a thing about them and they have lived in Japan for over 3-4 years comfortably. It doesn't bother them, it seems. Or maybe they don't register? Idk. Point is you will be fine, if you can either: a. Grow a thick skin and ignore the lookism/comments you get that you'll face or, b. Adjust or at least 'refine' yourself according to Japanese standards, even the bare minimum. Alternatively, you can choose to feel the hurt for how long you stay because Japan is a stiff country like that. It's one of it's greatest flaws. In the name of harmony is a sense of conformity so pervasive that there is a distinct (and personally disturbing) lack of individuality in many aspects, appearance being a very visible one.
For me the recalibration was needed for survival basically. There was an image that many Japanese people expected me to fit, and the more I went against the grain, the more they went against me. I'd elaborate further but I get the feeling it would stir up disbelief on this thread lol. Things are far better now but could be even better so I won't stop trying to improve. The negative comments are draining, and every commenter believes they are the first to mention it to you lol I truly believe appearance is the path to success in Japan, even above the ability to speak Japanese
Bro please don't leave me hanging. I see you are a brother from your profile pic. Do you mean by the image the idea that Japanese people expect you as a black man to fit the 2000s rap wave look. They expect you to have that kind of swagger and style e.t.c I have found this can be true with people who are not from the west but experienced western media. What was the image that Japanese people expected you to fit? Me even in the west, as a black person just as a teenager you were seen as an adult. I would walk home lat at night and have grown, MIDDLE AGED men run from me in fear... So I never feel shocked when I see someone say that in Japan they experienced a Japanese person react in a strange way to them based on pre-concieved notions.
Yeah bro, it's a very interesting dynamic. Basically if you fit the image of whatever famous black person they like then you're all good. If not, then they think you're from Africa and a refugee lol If they like LeBron James, then you need to be similar or it's a disappointment to them Clothing wise, you better be following the trend somewhat. Don't need to sag the pants but you need to be laced up with Jordans etc If you look bummy or basic out here then expect a harder time doing everything. It's not technically racism, it's more lookism. Cuz if you fit the image then people will go out their way to help you find jobs or do favors. With the women, the same dynamic apply times 2. If she likes Brian Mc Knight, every black dude she encounter *better* fit that image or else she pissed off. And they will let you know what type of dude they prefer. So if you not built like a NBA player or look like some kinda rapper/r&b guy expect them to act goofy towards you. Sex is easy to get out here but like I said if you don't fit the image, they'll talk shit about you then ask you to come to the love hotel with her lol. They deal with us to be entertained so you need the height, muscles, masculine features. They choose other types of men the same way they would adopt a puppy. They choose a black dude the same way they would choose the best vacuum cleaner with the most accessories and longest attachment haha You won't be compared to average or normal man, you will be directly compared to Neyo or Chris Brown but if they think you're close enough they will damn near worship you. On first dates they will examine you like they tryna appraise an antique coin. I could elaborate so much further but I've said too much on this thread. There are different rules for different foreigners If you can be a "handsome" gorilla, then everything will be smoother lol
> Actually this. I think lookism definitely exists strongly. Especially as a foreigner. This I agree with, but it's more "don't look like a slob". It's not a particularly high bar.
I agree with the fact that it's not a high bar. However, people here do have a different definition of what a 'slob' might be, I think.
That is definitely true.
You can still follow your own fashion sense and when confident this translates to others.
Sometimes this is annoyingly true. If I go into certain stores with a suit on the sales people will start to swarm.
If you live in Tokyo and don't care about your appearance you're already more mentally stable than most of the population here. Lol
Thank you I hope so!
Sounds like a girl I know, she is fully Japanese and was born and raised in Europe. Came to Japan in her mid 20‘s and was berated all the time. Why do you go by your nickname, that doesn’t sound Japanese? You are not necessarily fat, but… You are not really Japanese! You should know this because you are Japanese… and the list goes on! Only because ethnically she is Japanese!! She used to tell me, I have it good as a haafu. Honestly ignore those comments. I wouldn’t hang out with them or go as low contact as possible. Edit: spelling
Wow, thank you so much for your insight. I feel less alone 🙇♀️
Hard to choose not to go around because 99,9% of people in Japan are like this… I hate them trying to mold outsiders or even japanese/“hafu” in their way of doing things just to fit… Please find japanese or “hafu” that lived abroad for a long time (not the ones that spent months outside), they will probably have a more open minded and respect your individuality.
>My foreigner friend That person sounds like they aren't really your friend. Dress how *you* want to dress, and anyone who says anything about it isn't worth your time.
Thanks you. This seems the general consensus. My personal friends I’ve messaged also agree with this.
Just be careful about taking the general consensus from a subreddit that *constantly* talks about not being able to make any friends, especially with japanese people. Maybe, just maybe, dressing like a garbage bag in public has a little to do with it. Speaking as a fellow garbage bag dresser, of course.
This is such an insanely good point, I hope OP realises how extremely true your comment is when getting life advice from this sub😭
Yeah, let's encourage breaking human bonds over one remark. Better listen to strangers from the Internet.
If you want to hang out with people who make shitty comments to you about the clothes you wear, then that's your prerogative. There are plenty of other people out there. Maybe you should have more self-respect.
I have a plenty of self respect to understand that people are capable of making their own choices and be right about them, and there is no need to treat them like kindergarten kids.
I think this is the most obvious gap and difference between Asians born and raised in Asia and Asians born and raised in the West. I reckon you will sooner or later go back to the place where you were living before, so you don’t necessarily need to fully fit into Japanese or East Asian customs and cultures. However, I think Japanese-looking or East Asian-looking people staying in Asia are more required or expected to dress like locals. If you don’t follow these norms, you will stand out significantly from other East Asians. Very bluntly speaking, when I see East Asians born and raised in the West, especially in the USA, to be honest, I wonder why their hair is so dry and their skin conditions are so bad, and why they don’t mind wearing clothes that look like pajamas when they are in the city centre.
Tbh, it's the same for Europeans. White people in America are dressed bad comparatively to their European-born white counterparts. America is the land of freedom so "dress code" tends to be more relaxed compared to the old world of Europe and Asia. But East Asians in the west..... Don't know what you're talking about but I have never seen their hair as dry or have bad skin conditions. If anything, Japanese hair tends to look oily to me, which seems like they haven't washed their hair well.
I apologise if I may have inadvertently caused any offence by mentioning the USA. In my observation, their hair and skin often appear not well-treated and rather dry and damaged by the sun. Additionally, their weight and fashion choices can make them seem much older than they actually are. This is merely my personal observation as someone born in Japan, and I understand that perspectives may vary.
Tbh, America overall is also quite diverse between states in comparison to Japan's diversity amongst Japanese-only people. The observation you mentioned sounds more aligned with West Coast people than the rest of America. I'm not American either (though most would still consider anywhere in the Americas as "American). In terms of weight and fashion making someone appear older than they are, I do agree to a certain extent regarding weight (though I have met many exceptions that makes this otherwise true), fashion choices quite frankly differs based on their personal preferences. West Coast fashion is vastly different from East Coast. Not sure which type of fashion you are referring to. Mind you, New York being a fashion capital of the world, people are dressed vastly different there too (and the surrounding Northern - East Coast area). There's no offense as I just wanted to point out that your experience of seeing Western East Asians might just be one type of out many others that are vastly different in bodily care based on where they're from and the surrounding culture they grew up in. East Asians outside of East Asia are way more diverse than the ones in East Asia as there is more demand to "fit in" in Asia.
>USA, to be honest, I wonder why their hair is so dry and their skin conditions are so bad Lol I think it might be the climate and maybe the food as well. If they are Asians from SoCal where a lot of them disproportionately are, we are all like toast you leave in the toaster a bit too long. Many of our high schools even have lockers outside the building and almost everyone eats lunch outdoors in the sun. You can usually tell who the Asian Asians are by their fashion and noticeably smoother and less tanned.
Ahh, thank you for this perspective.
I don’t think you need to worry about it too much. However, the average age and lifestyle of people on JapanLife are quite different from your social circles in real life, so it might be better to ask people around your age. I’m kind of gobsmacked that almost everyone here says, "wear whatever you want," but many of my friends in their 20s or 30s still care about what they wear.
Dude, don't be gullible or naive! Your cousin seems to really prioritize superficial things over the qualities that actually matter in a person. This suggests a pretty shallow perspective, where looking good is more important than being good. It's an attitude that misses the deeper aspects of personality and intellect that really define someone's character. Just be mindful and don't let these superficial views sway you. Remember, your true worth is about so much more than just how you look.
Yeah, I am quite shocked to be honest as he is the cousin I’m closest to and I thought he knew me well. Thank you for your input, appreciate it.
While it's true that image and fashion is a big thing here, honestly, who gives a f. It's so damn hot here I prioritize comfort over anything, regardless of season. Although I am an older millennial so I don't give a damn anymore really. My wife is Japanese. When we visited Japan in the past, she would literally put on make up and the whole shebang when we would just go for a 5 minute walk to Lawson. I used to joke with her about this as it was totally foreign to me. And she used to give me shit for wearing shorts and flip flops on the train in October, when everyone else was wearing jeans and leather jackets when the weather was still hot as balls. Now? She could care less lol. She lived in the States long enough where she adopted comfort over style too (seeing attractive women wear PJ's to the store for example). And she no longer puts on make up or at most just some basic stuff. Buuuuut she's older like me now. It might be 'necessary' in Japan as others say, but damn is it superficial.
> Dude, don't be gullible or naive! Your cousin seems to really prioritize superficial things over the qualities that actually matter in a person That is straight up a good portion of Japanese culture. You either get on board with it or don't.
"Oh look I noticed a thing that convincingly sounds like it makes you stand out so I'm going to mention it because even though it might make you feel bad and whether or not it give me any power or anything, I have to point out the thing because for one instant the attention will be on you instead of possibly on me." That's all this BS is, typical really.
You're young — I'm sure you look good. Try things if you feel like it, but there's no need to become someone else.
Thank you
You are in the real world while your cousin lives online and mistakes it for the same. Don't worry, it doesn't matter now and will matter even less as you grow older.
Thank you.
I would say, yes, most East Asians I have lived around over the last 13 years have been judgmental about appearance. This has included clothing coordinations, brand names, hairstyles, make-up and nails, weight, complexion and a host of other appearance-related factors. If you have something slightly “off” in the aforementioned areas, then people might laugh at you, make low key snarky comments, perhaps even be bold enough to say something to your face or full-on avoid you. Women in general are catty and often immature, especially here. Unfortunately, your appearance, marital status and perhaps socioeconomic status will matter more than having actual substance as a human being. Sure it happens in various parts of the world, but it is certainly flagrant here.
Be yourself.—No one who expects you to change who you are to suit them is worth your time. You’ll never satisfy everyone anyway.—There will always be some rude, bitter female who has her nose in the air, trying to look down on someone she sees as “less than” her.
Thank you so much, this input is especially valuable. I appreciate it.
The saddest part is that some have the audacity to talk shit and chuckle all while wearing brands not even from Japan.
You don't have to be fashionable per se, just neat and tidy. If you're unsure where to begin, try copying what the mannequins/models at UNIQLO or GU wear. And if you like, maybe go to a salon and get a trendy hair cut etc for a 'image change' Hope that helps :)
Yes, I must admit the cheap prices have beckoned me over and I’ve bought a couple of things from those shops. Guess I could buy a couple more. Appreciate your advice.
You're welcome! I hope you can feel confident and can have some fun! Good luck!
These people sound like they suck. I dunno if this is a Zoomer thing — who insults someone’s fucking phone photos??? — or if it’s just a “your friend group” thing. Either way, I suggest getting new friends.
Ahh, my apologies, I should have been clearer and will edit my post but I was taking pictures of the friend. And during the review stage she was disappointed in the pictures I had took.
Well, you arent Japanese to Japanese people unfortunately. Even people born in Japan that study abroad for a just a year can face alienation and be considered 'not Japanese' anymore sometimes. As far as clothes, Id say the big thing is most women dress pretty conservatively, if you are wearing tank tops and short shorts or tight pants, that would be judged by people around you. You are probably best served just going shopping and buying a few things at shopping malls that you like if you want to wear things people around you are wearing. I would caution though that if you are trying to be accepted as 'japanese' this is a losing battle. Being Japanese is more than just your skin color and appearance, its all the customs and cultural practices and everday interactions that you dont know and dont do quite right, its the mindset thats all different. Dont waste your time trying to change that. All we can do is do our best be respectful, people can accept you for who you are, you dont need to be 'japanese'.
I think it's worth having an intellectual understanding of fashion for the same reason it's worth studying psychology, it affords you some power and control in interpersonal situations. People *will* treat you differently and you can leverage that, to blend in and disappear or to set yourself apart. It's almost like a communication medium. Unfortunately, what most Japanese people seem to communicate with fashion is their in-group membership and determination to fit in--it's just a more labor-intensive uniform--so I can see why you're not interested. Your cousin needs to stay in his lane tho 😬 I've gotten this treatment from "friends" in the past and it was really objectifying and made me trust them less.
You sound comfortable as you are, that shouldn't be under estimated. You be You. The friend sounds awfully superficial, especially the comment about dressing for photo ops...
Yeah, I was quite shocked. I’ve never met nor heard of anybody in my home country to say that sort of thing.
Not really. Rule of thumb is, if you don't look dumb, you look good. 95% of people don't care, and the only time they do is when you look *really* dorky. Like, wear-that-on-purpose dorky. You're most definitely fine!
Thanks. I hope so.
These people just sound very young, self conscious and vain. As a mid-late 20’s adult nobody is making fun of anybody’s iPhone being too old (especially not a 12) and people aren’t commenting negatively about anybody’s hair or clothes that much. Their comments say more about your friends/family than it says about you. They’re obviously so cripplingly self conscious and lack confidence to the point they worry about stuff Like that
I'm probably pretty similar. Fully Japanese by blood, grew up overseas for the first 25 years, only came on vacation for a month or two max, able to speak but shit at kanji as a kid, etc... Some of your issues have nothing to do with Japan and more to do with just being young with peers that are young (i.e. "your iphone is too old"). But you probably need to make up your mind about one thing for sure. Do you want to A) fit-in with the majority (i.e. be seen as Japanese) or B) be accepted for who you are (i.e. someone that was raised abroad and therefore culturally foreign)? It's kind of hard to do both at the same time, especially for someone only planning on staying in Japan temporarily, but you seem to have complaints about both. If you want to go with A), you generally want to dress a bit tidier around anyone that isn't family or super close. I usually wear a raggy t-shirt, shorts/jeans, flipflops just to walk around the neighborhood on my own, but I'll wear clothes that are a bit cleaner, fit better, etc... when I'm going out anywhere. Observe and ask your peers about what you could do to fit in. If you want to go with B), you just need to embrace the foreignness and just respond with "You're damn right I don't know what the hell you're talking about, explain!" and be ok with being treated as a gaijin that happens to speak better than average Japanese. You can try to balance A) and B) if you plan on staying here long term, but it's probably impossible if you're only here for a short-term language school.
Try wearing something nicer on weekends, consider it role-playing or being a secret agent. Your post reminds me of my former self until I was diagnosed with autism. I didn't care about how people saw me and didn't care about what they thought of my appearance, I still don't for the most part. But I kinda enjoy acting and the fancy clothes let me be someone I couldn't be 24/7, which I don't have the energy for anyway. It also sounds like your friends and cousin see a beautiful woman behind the dreary clothes and want to help you to bring her out. They may be overstepping their bounds at times but I bet they see something you don't. I'd say take a chance on a new version of you, at least for a little bit - you can always go back to 'original you'. Start with the weekends and see where it goes. Have fun with it, you're 19 after all, you still have a lot to learn. Experience is the best teacher, but you'll be limited if you never try new things.
To be honest, your cousin and friend sound strange and judgemental, although it’s possible they are just immature. Your cousin especially seems a bit too interested in your personal choices. I think it’s always good to be a bit skeptical of anyone who seemingly tries too hard to push their views on you, or to sell you something, or to convince you of something. As to your question, the way you described yourself is completely fine. Don’t change the way you dress for other people. Do what makes you feel happy and comfortable. And if the people around you make comments like the ones you’ve mentioned, it might be time to question whether you really want people like that around you.
Wow, your background sounds like mine! I'm also a *kikokushijo* in my late 20s who moved back last year and I haven't really found myself conforming to dress style. Instead it seems to be values and mannerisms that will always set us apart. That being said, I'm a guy, so there's definitely less social pressure on me in that sense. I would respectfully ignore your cousin, no one should really be dictating how another person dresses. Just find out what you like in life and stick to it! Have a good one!
What about only if you want to and enjoy it? if you do it every day to only please the others around you, I think you are forcing yourself into a fake sort of acting. It could take a toll mentally later in your life. Advice is ok, almost forcing not so much imho.
Your friend would lose it if she saw my iPhone 8 :)
Japan is infamous for its societal pressure to conform. "The nail that sticks out gets hammered down" and all that. Regardless of what they say, you ARE Japanese. You are also 'Western' (I wanted to say your actual country, but you didn't specify). You're fully both of those things. Sorry to answer your question with a question, but, is fitting in worth changing who you are? My advice is to find the value in your 'outsiderness'. You may not know every famous Japanese food or shop, but you know a heck of a lot about life outside of Japan. Be who you are, wherever you are. Wish you luck, OP
Very interesting discussion here. I'd say that both perspectives -- wear what you want, and dress better -- are true. I'd have your friends help you 'dress better' as a learning experience. Any human endeavour involves balancing the personal freedom with fitting in with others. That being said, many Japanese women I've met in big cities have been incredibly shallow. You dressing how you want is a good test of how genuine a friendship is. You have to pity them though, they are trapped in this culture, and are too terrified to do other than conform.
I think now and gradually, unless you’re low on the work ladder, people are definitely dressing more for themselves and to express themselves. There are “prissy” girls who dress more traditionally feminine, sure (very much like the 90s when I first arrived). But look around next time you’re out in Tokyo on the trains: lots of girls who seem to be saying “you can’t dictate how we dress anymore.” Jeans, baggy clothes, practical shoes. Really depends on the crowd you hang out with. But I do still see groups of friends from younger to older who dress like each other.
Eh, learning to not give a fuck is the best advice
You do you girl! Japan is super image conscious and lookism definitely exists. Do people treat you differently if you dress nicely? Yes but that’s true for any country. I’m 100% Japanese but grew up in the States so I totally understand where you’re coming from. When I explain Japanese lookism, here’s what I say. Style wise, Japanese people are well put together, especially going out into the city. You’ll rarely see Japanese woman in a tank top, shorts and flip flops in say Aoyama even in the summer. And there’s always a “trend” most woman follow with fashion/hair/makeup. I don’t follow any trends, I’m mostly dressed in all black, tall and not skin & bones so I stick out like a thumb in Tokyo but who cares? Unless there’s a dress code, I’m gonna be in comfortable clothes in a style that I think I look best in and like because I wanna be me! Don’t wanna look like all the other sea of women here. Yes you’ll sometimes get the looks or comments and some of them will not accept you since we don’t look like or think like a typical Japanese but that’s who we are. We are unique because of that and that’s a beautiful thing! Embrace it and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
LOL. I wear flip-flops, t-shirts, and shorts for most of the year. Sometimes people comment—say going out to dinner. I pay the whole fucking bill. Then they shut up. Fuck ‘em.
:)
Flex on 'em!
lol. Not flexing. Just not worth my time.
True that.
It could just be a generational thing. Like my friend groups previously were never into taking pictures or caring what we wore but a friend here complained about my clothes so when we go out I let her pick my outfit. I don’t really care what the clothes I’m wearing look like but if it makes her happy lol. It’s also possible these people in your life are just assholes.
Hi fellow Japanese that was raised abroad with shit Japanese skills. Well, I'm half, but either way. In general, this applies worldwide, but the better you look, the better you're treated. Some countries push this more than others, and Japan is one such country. But you don't have to listen. I certainly don't. I go out without makeup and thanks to losing a ton of weight, all my clothes are too big for me and I'm too cheap to buy new ones (plus they're comfy). None of my friends or coworkers have ever commented on my style or looks in a negative way, and I've never been treated badly or differently.
I have similar problems. Coming from an African culture I wear lots of colourful clothes with lots of patterns. My first girlfriend would keep trying to buy me "gifts" of clothes she wanted me to wear and complain about my clothes. During my time here I caved in a little for work and for social events I sometimes wear more muted colours. But don't let them force you into a box. I've seen too many Japanese people forced into stuff they don't like because society demands it.
You have to do what **you** want. I have no way of knowing what's running through their heads. My basic recommendation for hilarity is to start offering to take their photos for them (maybe amuse yourself learning about angle and things like that). And if they go well can't we have a picture with you, drop all appearance of cheer from your face and look at them stonily. Maybe say, "If you aren't capable of taking a decent picture of me, don't bother me." Ooh. Sorry, I was feeling hostile towards them. And maybe tell your cousin if he wants to be a life coach, take a friggin' class. Edit to add: Every time they make a remark about your appearance, drop all expression from your face, look them in the eye coldly. Smile to reward the kind of remark you like. Stone-face to show contempt for the other remarks.
Thank you
Thank you for asking this question for me op, we are in the same boat!
I wear my SpongeBob SquarePants t-shirt proudly here in public. I wouldn't do that back in my home country.... Fuck it. I'm over 40. I would, even in my home country. Japan taught me how to not give a fuck about other people and their stupid expectations about my own life. Fuck that noise. Dress with whatever you like and feel comfy in.
it differs from people.. like me when i first got here in japan.. i weighed 50kg and im 5 feet flat... mom and other people told that i should loose weight atleast 43-45 kilos is at best... so i could fit in fine and that clothes would actually fit me... but for me i think my weight is just fine... i didn't listen to them...
If you didn't grow up inside the Japanese society and its education system you won't fit no matter how much you try, or how fitting clothing you wear. So it's pointless to even try. It's easy to spot a Japanese just by their body language or the way they walk, so clothes won't really help. A jp person who grew up abroad is basically a foreigner at this point (and you'll be treated as one anyway), because your brain is wired so differently, your values are different, etc. It's a very homogeneous society so even a slight deviation from the local behavior will make yous stand out. This country is all about the looks. The pressure of being a shakaijin will be infinite and you will never be able to keep up with the insane expectations. It's why salarymen on trains keep sitting still like a statue as if they are being observed during an interview, and why people are so scared to show their phone screen of what they're doing, or the cover of the book they're reading You are always expected to look like a professional in public and you're judged for not being one 24/7. Welcome to Asia's problem of lookism.They will always keep pointing out things about you like the comments on your clothes and photos. (And kami forbid, if you gain some extra weight). There will be no end to this. Do you really need this pressure in your life? I say stop worrying about fitting in and embrace your difference, otherwise it will affect your mental health.
>“your phone (iPhone 12) is too old.” Mfw still rocking my iPhone 6
As someone whose clothes often don't fit in Japanese society (mostly vivid colors and sometimes relatively revealing clothes that most Japanese don't wear, much less as often as me), I say you don't need to worry about that stuff. If you want friends, you want those you don't need to change your style to befriend. Worry about that when you have to get a job and they have clothing guidelines.
We are in probably the least fashionable era since the early 2000s. I see teens dressed like they rolled off the set of Friends. I was much younger when that fashion was first in style and all the young guys I see look really old to me, so, your cousin needs to take a seat. Your other friend seems too interested in their social media look. And the comments about not knowing a famous ramen place are weird. If you were quite close, one could chalk it up to good natured teasing. But based on the little information here, it seems like she's hoping you'd be her Japanese local guide to all the cool niche spots she could post to her social media. Depending on your relationship, it may be worth it to have a talk with her about the things she's doing that bother you.
Sounds like it is time to change your friend circle. There were people like that around me especially when I was around 19-20. For your own piece of mind it is best to be honest to yourself. They don't like it when you don't dress like them? F\*ck 'em! Find new friends. I know many Japanese people who don't give a sh\*t about the these kind of superficial things. Your friends are trying to pull off a "but it is how it is done in Japan". No, not necessarily.
I wear oversized t-shirts too, but they’re band shirts and come in “one size.” I try to style them a bit, though, like wearing them with skirts. I think fashion is different in the US compared to Japan. US seems to be more comfort over style. And clothes people wear out might be seen as “ roomwear” in Japan. I remember fighting with my friends that “leggings are not substitutes for trousers” in the US. I just feel super uncomfortable going out like that. Basically feels like walking around outside in pajamas. That might be why you’re getting comments on your fashion. People really take care of their hair in Japan too. If you’re lazy about fashion, taking care of hair can make a difference. I’m super lazy about hair and makeup, but I do keep to some standards of “this is too much of a bum to be seen outside in.” I wear a lot of hats when I’m in between perms and bought myself a bangs wig for easy styling. You don’t have to follow latest trends, just avoid what looks like roomwear/pajamas when going out. Uniqlo and GU are perfectly fine brands, you don’t need designer to look good. And go to a salon sometimes. They give you a head massage too, so at least go for that aspect of it. I’m not a massage person, but those really feel good. And even a conservative style done at a salon can make you feel refreshed and more confident about your appearance. Edit: for myself, I find I dress better when I have more confidence in my appearance. So sometimes it’s about doing what makes us more confident in ourselves will help us look better outwardly to others, regardless of actual fashion choices. Don’t worry about your phone. I went from iPhone SE to gen 2 SE. If anyone gives me grief, I like how perfectly it fits in my hand. Can’t argue against that. Then I get a comment about, “yeah, the newer phones are kind of too big to hold comfortably.” I get made fun for using old gen tech all the time and just roll with it. Whatever, I like it so why change it while it’s still working?
If *you* want to, go ahead and try some new styles, that’s your choice. Sometimes it can be a bit scary to move out of a certain comfort zone, but it can also be a bit fun. The main thing is don’t let your friends or cousin push you into wearing something you feel uncomfortable in. If you don’t want to wear skirts, cool. If you don’t eat to wear a tight top, cool. It’s all up to you. But the loose T-shirt and pants look most Americans wear around is definitely not common in Japan.
Japan fashionable? Lol. They dress in Grey bags and slippers/sneakers. And students from jp school are Chinese and Vietnamese. They dress like they on camping or something...
I never got such comments and I'm also generally the "t-shirt and jeans" type of person. So I suspect you get more comments because youre Japanese particularly in appearance. Honestly I would say don't mind it and stop hanging out with those jerk friends. But if you'd like to get less comments, just go to Uniqlo and go crazy. Their clothes are quite comfortable and pretty much everyone wears them so... But there are tons of less fashionable japanese women. Tons of tomboys too. So.. don't worry too much. Yeah, in the heart of Tokyo everyone tends to dress up a lot but if you go a bit away from central Tokyo you'll see that people are more relaxed.
Depends on where you live. Most countries and areas care a little. If you don't fit one of the standard patterns, then you stand out and are likely seen as a foreigner. I mean, if you go in to the suburbs in Canada as a guy and are dressed up like most men in Aoyama or Ginza, you'll stand right out. So you'll stand out here in Japan if you are in clothes that most are not used to seeing. Now if you're in any large city (Paris, etc), that goes double. Triple in Tokyo or Seoul or any other monoethnic society as there is less diversity. This is even more important if you look Japanese. If you don't care, none of this matters, but I assume you care because you made this post.
I think fashion can be seen this way in Japan - the more attractive and physically fit you are, the more lenient people will be about what you wear. If you look like a model or you have muscles like Baki, pretty much anything goes because most things will already look good on you. When I first moved here I was a 5'9, nearly 100kg, and my parents are Vietnamese. I also liked graphic tees and cargo shorts. To say was judged would be putting it mildly. I slimmed down to 75kg, started bodybuilding, and now wear slim fit shirts and jeans most of the time, substituting the jeans with mid-thigh shorts for summers to show off the legs, and the difference in how the world around me reacts is night and day. Nothing I wear is amazing nor particularly fancy. Just a shirt and pants, that's it. No layers, no real coordination. But because the rest of me changed, so did the attitude. I honestly don't think I would've gotten married if I had just stayed the way I was, despite what my wife tells me when I show her old photos as she tries hard to contain her laughter at just how terrible I looked. My wife calls how people treat each other due to fashionability the イケメンだから effect. Imagine a scene in a drama where the tall handsome guy pats a girl on the head. Perfectly fine because he's handsome. Now think about the news about the short old politician being raked over the coals for patting his subordinates on the head. She jokes that if that politcian was 6'4 and handsome there would've never been any reports of misconduct.
> I think fashion can be seen this way in Japan - the more attractive and physically fit you are, the more lenient people will be about what you wear. In any parts of the world you meant?
I think dressing well is a form of good manners. If you show too much or your relaxed self people take less of what you say seriously if it comes to more important manners. For example if you might have more positive feedback if you’re teaching English to adults in a nice dress shirt vs an anime tee.
They'll stop when you say you're going to or coming from work. Some professions signal authenticity by dressing "sloppily" or strangely Anything creative. Writers, copywriters, designers (graphic, fashion, web ...), photographers, illustrators, artists, coders, and so on. Dentsu has standing orders to its creatives to never, ever wear business outfits. Otherwise clients won't believe you're a _real_ creative. God forbid mistaking you for a _suit_ 営業！
You do you! My comment got moderated because I included links, but what you describe is not that far from the yama-kei style. If you want to make it more feminine, you could add a smock over your T-shirts now and then. Smocks are so simple you could even make them yourself out of fabric you choose. Yama girls sometimes wear skirts or shorts that are stretchy with leggings underneath. The idea is that you could go mountain climbing with these clothes, hence the name 'yama.'
>Should I really pay more attention to my style and buy more fashionable and on trend clothes and dress better? Is it essential for fitting in in this society? If as you said you don't look shabby or unclean then nobody sane will care. I would say it mostly depend on the kind of people you want to hang out with/meet. You're probably not going to hit it off with the shittok/instagram crowd but people into sports or cars or whatever probably don't care much as long as you don't look like a bum.
If you look good no one will really care. If you don't then you may need a boost. I'm a caucasian male, pretty muscular and I only wear 500yen tshirts and Jeans and I don't feel it ever had any impact. But if you don't unluckily that's one of the first things people will notice. Society sucks 😔
Just wear really bland clothes and you'll be fine. Nothing flashy unless you're going to Lawson or Family mart, then it's all bets off. I've got kids so I wear dumb shit from that cheap clothing store, forgot the name. Like One Piece, Doraemon, Pokemon t-shirts lol. I tell myself I do it to make the kids happy, but really it's for me
Just pick something from uniqlo, you’ll see someone else wearing it within 5 minutes if not already at the store lol. But seriously just find a look you like and feel comfortable in and try it out. Fashion is more about comfort and confidence than anything. You’ll only look bad if your clearly uncomfortable
I have say this in this sub a few times but imma put it out here again that: regardless of your fashion style / language skills, how a typical Japanese person will treat you will change depending on your skin color / nationality. If you're white / black, as long as you're clean, it's really whatever. They will consider you top of the food chain anyway so do whatever you want. If you have first world passport but Asian face (aka yellow skin) then it's random - people I gone to school with will be nice nonetheless to non Japanese speaking Asian, but to stay friends after graduation? Maybe about 10%. If you're Indian and similar looking - then again it's random. People from big cities like Indian food so they will at least do not insult you to your face. Then again I studied international studies so the Japanese I knew from school already was on the open minded side of the spectrum. My point is, as long as you're clean and hygenic don't smell etc, you should do you. There are so many fashion style and clothing trend change every single year. I don't see anything wrong with the way you said you dress. I see those style all the single time.
I think it depends on where you're trying to fit into. If you're planning on living in Japan to become a fashion designer or hair stylist, your style will be important. But it sounds like you're currently talking about fitting in with your peers. I'd dismiss their comments, and go find new friends. Why should you have to change yourself, especially when you personally don't want to? If there's anything you should be careful of in Japan, it's the pressure to conform as well as their beauty standards set especially for women. Chasing after these things to please others will absolutely destroy your mental health. Wear what you like and keep using your perfectly functional phone (what a superficial thing to shame someone about!)
Don't let your friend suck you into spending lots of time on fashion your friend cares about if you don't care about it. However fitting in does matter in japan so it might not hurt to copy the people around you when you go to replace clothes next.
Most people here are obsessed with appearances. It will make your life easier if you try to improve your looks. But if you’re going to be here just for a while, it doesn’t matter.
The other approach is to double down instead of joining the herd. Like ... oversized trousers and a hoodie.
sounds like you're just unfortunate in that you're surrounded by varying degrees of assholes
Define fitting in. If you want to be perceived from the outside to be a native Japanese person. If you dress the part, you would fit in as long as your complexion are Japanese to being with. However you will be uphold to the same value standard as a native person. If your mindset, mannerisms, culture doesn't fit into the "norm", once you start interacting with others they would notice that. Some who believe that it is polite to do so would tell you. FYI, I was initially in Engineering at a local uni. Fitting in there would meant wearing a chequered shirts and pants or t-shirt and pants. I'm a guy who was raised in Singapore where we value comfort over style/conformity. Now I wear polo shirts, pants and sandals when its warm. I'm also in a different faculty now so there's less of a need to conform to a particular stereotype.
You probably don't have to do everything the same. It's not quite like it seems from afar. But maybe they won't take a chance unless they think you are excited to share, and with them that means sharing... something that might happen to be conformity.
I would just take it as the opportunity to try it out and see what the difference is in the way you feel, maybe it would help you to understand them better, then you go back to being comfortable or adopt some new things you learned?
First of all, your “friend” is being rude. Your cousin may be coming from a good place, but isn’t being great either. At the end of the day the way you present yourself is your own choice. I will say that it heavily depends on how you want to be treated. I’m not ethnically Japanese, but I notice a huge difference between when I dress and do my makeup the “Japanese” way and when I do it the “American” way. I don’t really dress American much anymore, but when I do dress down I notice I’m treated like a tourist. People are hesitant to talk to me, they’re ruder, they use gestures instead of approaching me. When I dress Japanese and do my hair and makeup I’m treated like a local. I know I don’t look physically like a local but people can tell I’ve lived here awhile and assume I speak Japanese. Tbh a giant factor in making the conscious decision to adopt Japanese style is so I’m treated better.
I will tell you something. I lost my country due to war. So all my shit travel with me in one suitcase nowadays. I had my one comfortable and streetwear style with a pinch of fashion back in the days. (Girls said I’m hella stylish). Now I’m in Japan, and as I had just a bag with none of my favourite clothes, I was fine till the moment my mind cool down. After a year, when my mind became calmer I wanted to update my things a bit. So what I’m trying to say is, check your clo, if you really need some updates. When you will feel real need, don’t buy low quality products. Buy one that will be awesome and you will enjoy long time. In this way you will feel good, and your clothes will speak for you as well. P.S. Just read what you wear, I wear probably the same in Japan. Don’t let other people disturb you;)
“I am a foreign born fully Japanese person who grew up overseas” >> this sentence gave me a whiplash 😵💫
I think you should do whatever you want and absolutely not fall into the trap your cousin is laying out for you. I also think it’s never a bad idea to explore your sense of fashion, especially while living in a big city. So if you truly want to learn more about fashion and this is coming from a good place and not one of shame, I think Tokyo is an excellent place to start. Idk where you are coming from but a lot of places just aren’t great shopping areas. Tokyo is incredible for that. I would not make any sudden moves. Come to Tokyo, observe other people and pick and choose what you like and then try to find those styles. Observe and gather information. What is a certain style or item called? Where is a good place to get it? Can you find it on sale? Whatever you do don’t spend a bunch of money up front. Take it slow. Absolutely try things on before you buy and don’t buy online unless you know for a fact it will fit. Try and branch out from Uniqlo if you feel comfortable to do so. You’ll be fine no matter what you wear. Fashion can be really fun and open up doors to meet all kinds of people. But it’s never worth going broke for or compromising mental health or your sense of self worth.
I think being conscious about your style choices is probably good But lmao @ your phone is too old and you take pictures wrong
If you dress like a tourist people will treat you like one. I'm not sure about high fashion and all that but if you want to fit in generally dressing like a local does make a difference in how people approach you at a first impression.
I'm half Japanese dealing with similarish circumstances in Japan, but it's just my family. I go to the gym and my goal is to have something similar to LeanBeafPatty (shes a fitness influencer you can find on Instagram). Because of the muscles I've gained so far, I'm pretty big compared to my family. I get called fat sometimes, not as an insult but as a statement and they're like "why would you want to do that? You should go back to being skinny!" I definitely stand out in my clothing sometimes too, but it's just cause my style isnt necessarily something trendy/stereotypical here. I just wear what I want to wear and what makes me feel good. What I've learned from my experiences here, is to stop giving a shit about others opinions. Wear and do what you want to do, don't let others control you. The less I started caring the happier I was. I feel like their mentality is pretty unhealthy anyways. I do kiss peoples asses sometimes when I need to, if it's something professional or something like that, but for the most part, I just live how I want to live while still being respectful of the culture. Your clothing of choice is not disrespectful, and if it makes you happy go for it.
>For anyone interested I mainly wear T-shirts (eg. Oversized ones or 2 designer brand ones that were gifts from family), solid colour button up blouses, black/navy cargo pants from UNIQLO, 1 pair of jeans from GU…. If you dress up like this and still be judged, then it's your friends are the problems, not Japan. That's like the most basic style you can find in any skater/hiphop-style fashion street for youngsters here, like American mura in Osaka.
You need a new friend, not a new style.
https://preview.redd.it/vcpsznsk2r5d1.jpeg?width=1707&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de0c6cae2dc9b93ea8eb877db27f33ca6e55a893 Next time tou see them pull up in this
https://preview.redd.it/afqnhrzp2r5d1.jpeg?width=730&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5dd6ab1c473652696a88014e4584c49de897590b Or this
>I am here to study, not to make myself look better. I would definitely prefer to put more time energy and money into learning and cultivating my mind rather than my appearance. I think this is great, fantastic even, and personally I'm not one to care for fashion. On the other hand, why not take it as a positive step? Learn the skill "How to dress like them". It doesn't mean you have to all the time, in your private time, or even subscribe to their ideology. In their own way, I'm sure they're trying to be helpful, and even though it might clash with your own values, finding people who will go out of their way to honestly try and help you sincerely is something to be treasured? I dislike how shallow the world is, but at the same time, looking "nicer" and "fitting in" is undeniably helpful.
Too many people care a lot about looks here. Like, a lot a lot. The amount of times I’ve heard people say they’d choose their partner based on them being cool or beautiful alone is very surprising to me since personality is everything (in my opinion). That being said, do whatever you wanna do and don’t worry about it. *but*, if it bothers you, then you should adapt to what they’re saying because the comments won’t stop.
F society. let them say and think what they want. Just dress comfortably and dont try to impress strangers.
No need to dress up, not unless you want to fit in with ppl in the trend. But if you don't mind just being you, then you are fine. I'm also just wearing tshirt shorts/pants from uniqlo. Same shirt that I cycle every week.
Why would you try to fit in something broken?
I looks like a Japanese bit apperantly the way I able to use random tshirt and short pants without shaving all my 無駄毛 on summer is a give away that I am no japanese XD
In this case, I'd say pick only the green M&Ms out of the whole bag. Clothing nicely (not exactly trendy) is expected. Especially if you're attending meet ups, events or gatherings etc, as people will assume you are not giving enough consideration to those who are also attending if you're sticking out like a sore thumb. And going out of your box from time to time is a good thing. I just believe it's better to take the valuable advice, but ignore some of them which you don't wanna acknowledge. Wear clothes that are comfortable for you, but also not too out of the norm etc is probably the way to go. But if you're just going out alone or attending classes etc, then it doesn't really matter TBH.
It's probably difference depending on your town, but here in Kyoto locals do somehow dress with a different vibe ti visitors. Really shows.in August, when Kyoto guys are mostly STILL in long trousers. If they wear shorts it looks like decision rather than a habit. Yes, if you want to fit in dress accordingly, but not slavishly. Observe the vibe and "hum the same tune" in your own way. This includes posture and movement. Good luck!
I want to give advice, but I feel like my situation is too different to be applicable. I'm a mid-30s male and don't give a flying fuck about fashion. I find the entire culture around fashion vapid and boring. I'm someone who has no qualms going to the convenience store in the late afternoons on a Saturday still in my pajamas lol The big difference for me though is I have already established myself here. There isn't really much I even want that putting more effort in fashion would even get me. I'm already married, have plenty of friends and a good job. For me there are 0 reasons to choose style over comfort. For you, a younger woman trying to fit in, I can see the benefit in gritting your teeth and enduring the lookism nonsense if it helps you stand out less. For me personally, any friend who cared enough about fashion to try and change how I dress wouldn't be my friend for very long, but I know that might not be easy when you are trying to make friends at school.
You’ll never fit in as a Japanese raised in Japan, so your cousin can leave those expectations at the gate. But he is right about needing to present your best self. Lookism is HUGE here and people will treat you varying degrees based on your appearance. You don’t necessarily have to wear what he suggests, many female styles here suck. It’s all about elevating your best self. But if you look like you rolled out of bed to attend a college course and have a ponytail, don’t expect others to really interact with or gravitate towards you. Even if you having a glowing personality.
Short answer, no. Especially here where I have seen some crazy drips
Japan is a country full of humans just like any other country. It’s not an alien world. Dress normally. Act normally.
The number of Japanese hetero couples where the woman's fashion savvy makes you wonder if the guy in T-shirt, jeans, and sneakers is really her date ... or just her kid brother.
Yes. Most people dress like garbage in North America imo. Most people dress nice here imo. Especially women. Do whatever you want but know that people respect other people that dress nice here.
Thats why most foreigners end up being left out, people dress like shit 😂😂
Paying more attention to what I wear really improved my image, my confidence andy overall social standing so I don't think it's a negative thing to do. Its weird that you feel so attached to dressing like you are homeless. It must be a problem since everybody is commenting on it. In Japan the image you give is extra important too, so no wonder you don't fit in with other Japanese people.
Yo how much does your cousin want to bang you?