This happened to me once, super embarrassing.
Finish a roll with a woman who was much more experienced than me, say "thanks" and without thinking (and without looking) i reach to slap her on the back just like I would any of the guys, accidentally slap her directly on the butt.
I was like, "ope, sorry sorry" and I'm sure I made a face. She gave me the "eh it's nothing" hand-wave, and thank God that was the end of that. I still cringe thinking about it several years later.
I have done the same thing as well. It wasn’t directly on the butt, but like upper outer thigh. Still, I was super embarrassed. Neither of us acknowledged when it happened but the next day I apologized to her because I was cringing about it at home. She said she didn’t even notice lol
I think I should treat female training partners like my male partners so I’m going to slap her on the ass, give a squeeze, and say, great roll bro. Your package felt huge today!
His reaction would suggest he used to play sports where it's common, not sexual in nature, and an acknowledgement of you as an opponent.
He's a white belt so he probably doesn't know etiquette. Telling him was likely enough. There's no need to escalate to the police unless he does it again.
Edit: this isn't gender specific. Women slap each other's bums in volleyball, basketball, hockey. Anyone saying to file a police report right away has clearly never played any sports.
… idk bro i’ve slapped my teammates asses before yes. but they were all dudes. if it was a woman i would think twice… but maybe its just me being a prude
No, you’re right. I feel the same way. I’d be ok with a dude slapping my son’s ass, but not my daughter’s. Very different connotations, and very different dynamic.
Is it really tho, or are we sexualizing the opposite gender.
I think the possibility that it could be misconstrued as sexual is why guys dont do it. But it can be done with platonic intent.
But on the girls side, shell think about it too deeply, mix in the emotions, and now what was a friendly acknowledgment of competition is a crossroad of many possible outcomes.
To sum it up, why isnt it gay when you slap the same genders butt? Its not sexual at all, is why.
Also most women think about sex way more but dont want to be seen as sluts (yay sexual freedom for all), so the guy may have just introduce a million thoughts in her head cause of the way she thinks, and she projects it by blaming the dude for slapping her butt. Even if she liked it, the slut defense will kick in.
So yes theres just alot of nuance that shouldnt exist but does due to gender dynamics and it goes to show all the rah rah about sexual freedom and acceptance is a sham facade tool we use to seem morally grandiose.
And its a lowest common denominator thing. If one person in the entire gym sees it as sexual, itll coerce everyone else to adjust to that or deal with gossip and comments.
It's true that this question depends on the custom. It's always been understood that it's customary in same-sex sports such as baseball, American football, wrestling, female volleyball/basketball. But my immediate sense is that BJJ has never developed a common-knowledge custom of male-slapping-female-asses. That is definitely a morally relevant difference in this case, given the lack of a common-knowledge custom. You say it's not gender specific \*for same-sex sports\*. But BJJ isn't a same-sex sport. So that is a morally relevant difference. Just as some support for my claim: I've rolled at least somewhere around 12 gyms in two different states in the US spanning 10+ years and have never seen this happen.
So IMO OP is not expressing a lack of appreciation for custom. I would hope that things could be settled without resorting to filing a formal legal complaint of any kind. But I don't think the ass-slapper can appeal to custom to get him off the hook here.
And if he is trying to make the practice of male-slapping-female-ass a custom at his gym/in BJJ more generally, that wasn't exactly a wise way to go about "normalizing" it. Lol. Jeez.
At any rate, I respectfully dissent from your opinion.
It was a reflex. OP needs to calm down and not blow an honest mistake completely out of proportion by listening to unreasonable individuals on Reddit who think there's malice in every negative human interaction.
Also, the courts would likely rule there was no ill intent (mens rea) in the 1-time ass slap from someone trying out a new sport and thinking it's acceptable as it is in many other sports which the defendant clearly participated in.
They forget they are not the centre of the universe.
That guy was going about his day, not thinking about you, your bum, or anything else about you. He was just competing and when he gets home he'll think about food, then TV, then sleep. That ass-slap was nothing to him, just a reflex, like getting a glass of water. He wouldn't have even thought about it twice if you didn't say anything. Most people can't fathom that they're not even an after-thought to most people.
Exactly. Grew up playing football ball, baseball, boxing, etc. we call this ass slap an “atta’ boy”, it’s the equivalent of saying “good game” or “nice play”, or in this case “good roll”. While certainly within your rights to express that you would not like that repeated, I’m gonna come out and tell you to relax. You asked him not to do it again, that’s good enough. If he repeats the act then sure, tell a faculty member. But he wasn’t trying to grab a cheek for any sort of thrill seeking. It was a compliment of the performance.
That said, the fact that OP is a woman would certainly mean that I wouldn’t do that. It’s a potential line being crossed and for the exact reasons you stated, I would never do it to a woman for fear of her taking offense.
Haha there are quite a few subreddits that would argue differently. For example apparently it's difficult for even Drs to tell whether a baby is a boy or girl when born.
You should choose your words more carefully, especially during ~~pride~~ *mental health awareness* month. SMH ironically.
I don't disagree that it would be disproportionate to go after the guy legally. If it was an honest mistake, an apology should suffice. I meant to suggest as much in my previous post when I expressed hope "that things could be settled without resorting..."
And yeah if it was an honest mistake then the action didn't express a culpable mind. It would be a waste of legal resources to turn this into something it clearly seems not to be.
Didn't mean to rev any engines. I just don't think an appeal to custom defends his action, regardless of intent. That's all.
Why is it his reflex to touch another person's ass?
"It's just the culture." I don't care. It's the culture in Afghanistan to rape little boys, is that okay? Culture doesn't supercede the rights of the individual.
This shit is sexual assault and normalizing it creates an environment that is extremely unwelcoming to anyone with sexual trauma, male or female.
Stop touching people's butts.
I would imagine all of bjj would be a trigger for anyone who experienced sexual trauma, not just the ass slap.
It was an honest mistake. If a guy from Italy does a double cheek kiss when meeting you, are you going to call the cops? If you don't like it, say something. If it keeps happening, escalate. It's very simple.
Sounds like you have some things to work through.
Combat arts SHOULD be a place where people with trauma can learn to feel safer. Anyone choosing BJJ is consenting to being touched while sparring. This in no way means that they are also consenting to being touched on the ass afterwards.
Why are you all so eager to defend butt touching as a tradition? Why is it so important to preserve this?
>Sounds like you have some things to work through
A blatant and honestly disgusting attempt to discredit me by implying that I myself have experienced sexual trauma, as if that would make me LESS informed on the issue. I have not, but that's irrelevant.
Nobody is defending the tradition of butt touching.
Why are you so adamant on accusing someone of sexual assault over an honest mistake? Do you really hate the tradition so much that you would ruin someone's life over it? Being falsely accused of SA that is horrible and stays with someone forever.
There's no justification for your willingness to destroy someone's life. Your radical way of dealing with someone who is likely a good person that made a mistake is disgusting. That's what you need to work through. Be more understanding and stop thinking everyone is out to get you, I promise your life will be better.
Chill out. This mofo is ready to hang people from the gallows for a simple reflex / misunderstanding. People are soft as cotton these days, making mountains out of molehills.
It was not sexual assault. Gtfo with that shit. Should he apologize and refrain from doing that with women, absolutely. Should he feel guilty or be punished for sexual assault? F*** no.
No it is not. Context and intent are imperative to take into account. Life is not black and white. Shades of gray make up the vast majority of situations and it is important to understand that.
IIRC, The Kink Doctor suggested it was a reflex owing to experience with other sports, where butt-pats are customary and everyone knows they are customary.
Bro if the dude wanted to cop a feel he had several minutes on the ground rolling around to do it. This is BJJ where he could've motorboated her during a roll and called it a pressure pass. He could have tea bagged her and called it north/south. Take the back and get control of an arm right on her chest and grab some boobies. So many different things a creepo could do during a roll and he didn't.
Stop it.
That's not my point.
My point is if the guy was trying to cop a feel he had LOADS of opportunities to do that and more during a roll. If he had bad intentions he could have let those play out during the roll and not in a very obvious way afterwards.
Ffs man you reddit people are something else.
That is an absolutely absurd take. You just compared a contextually appropriate butt spap to raping little boys. Your opinion is officially irrelevant.
Even though I agree with the general worries here about the overly punitive stance re this case, I think what Grapplebadger has said here is a misinterpretation of the point that the concerned poster was making.
I think they were saying something more like “appeal to custom/culture isnt a good justification of a practice per se,” which, in general, it certainly isn’t. I dont think they meant to morally equate sexually abusive practices in Afghanistan with a sportsmanlike butt-pat.
But even if custom isnt a good justification of a practice per se, it’s certainly enough to get you off the hook for a host of actions which would otherwise be apparently wrong.
Well first off thank you for an actual thoughtful take on what I said. Refreshing, sincerely. Here’s my counter-argument though. I think you’re misinterpreting me. Because there are a couple key points here. 1. This is an opt-in subculture, not culture at large. This isn’t some boys will be boys stuff, it’s a specific culture and context wherein that butt slap explicitly means something different. So this woman is wrong because she opted in, but tried to apply general cultural norms to a subculture-specific action. If I went to a Hell’s Angels clubhouse, and complained about the drinking and swearing, I’m the asshole. Maybe elsewhere that behavior is inappropriate, but in that context it’s culturally appropriate. So in that way, culture absolutely IS a valid defense. You trying to kiss me on the cheek here is weird. In Paris it’s polite. Shaking a woman’s hand when you meet her is respectful and appropriate. If she’s Orthodox Jewish, it’s very inappropriate. See my point? Context matters. And 2. The previous poster is guilty of an argumentum ad absurdum fallacy. Because they directly DID make that “raping little boys” comparison (which is problematic at best as an assertion, straight racist at worst) and it’s an absurd comparison, devoid of rationality or context or any perspective. “You shouldn’t drink beer. Hitler drank beer”. Similar comparison. While drinking beer might have some reasonable criticisms, that is not one of them.
Glad you appreciate my thoughtfulness. Cheers. You're right about context mattering. But I still think you're wrong on 1. Even in the subculture, I don't think there's a male-to-female ass-slapping custom. If there was, she wouldn't have a complaint. I have patted female training partners on the knee, back and shoulder after a roll. Never on the ass. And I'm not sure about 2. I guess it'd be best to hear back from them to clarify what the purpose of their use of that analogy was.
And yeah as a matter of positive law, if there's a custom of certain touchings in certain context, it's certainly a defense against battery or negligent infliction of emotional distress or whatever other civil case you might try to make. My earlier point was just that with time, persuasive moral objections might be raised against some custom which eventually leads to its revision, repeal, abolition, what have you. So, it's possible to find yourself in a situation where you have a valid defense on grounds of custom, and yet that custom might eventually prove to be unjustifiable or even impermissible. The Jewish Orthodox practices towards females might be one example.
I agree that “male to female ass slapping” isn’t probably a specific custom native to the jiu jitsu world. I disagree that “every ass slap is the same” and my objection is that we are judging this circumstance like we would outside jiu jitsu. We are missing key details. I’ve probably “slapped an ass” by some standards, but to me it was a hip. There’s a big difference between the outside of a butt cheek and the inside. If/when I did it, I guarantee it wasn’t intended as anything remotely sexual, or even as a “good game”. I am simply less cognizant of some of the typical rules of physical proximity, because of the context. Like: we don’t know what position they were in. Was he on top? On bottom? The details of this matter. Was it hard? Soft? What part of her butt did he touch? While it’s certainly possible that what he did was malicious and creepy, we are missing SO much info. Which is why I’m not defending his actions per se, I’m simply not comfortable condemning them.
Yeah I think we're in agreement on the key points here. Your points are all well-taken. We didn't see shit. He also apologized straightaway. Even if he was trying to gratify himself, I think he merits the benefit of doubt here. Mob justice gives me the chills. Jeez.
Weird, when I signed up at my gym I never checked a box opting in to get my ass slapped. Did you?? I’ve been on various sports teams my entire life, and ass slapping hasn’t been normal in a single one of them. I have never seen someone at my gym slap someone else’s ass. If someone at my gym “reflexively” slapped my ass I’d “reflexively” punch them in the face. The 45 year old male hobbyist probably wants you to slap his ass just as little as the 22 year old female hobbyist does.
What the fuck??!?!
A police report??!?
First off that's insane. Secondly unless he said inappropriate shit while he did it or grabbed it and shook, or motorboated her, that's insane and will be a waste of time.
It'd be very easy to do this by accident or not thinking about the fact it's a woman. I give a light pat to the back/shoulder of dudes I roll with so I could do it on accident also.
JFC reddit. Stop being reddit.
I came a microsecond away from slapping a chick's ass after a roll completely out of habit. Been doing it in sports for years and now do it all the time with the dudes on the mat... cut the kid some slack I'm sure he's embarrassed as f.
If I gave him the benefit of the doubt, it’s possible he forgot that you’re of the opposite sex, and wasn’t thinking.
I’m not a butt slapper (at least on the mat), so I wouldn’t know.
If he seems like his intentions were genuinely creepy, then I’d say go ahead and complain loudly.
i can’t tell, it felt like he was giving me more attention a little overly friendly, but i assumed it was because i was a higher belt and he was looking to either impress me or get a round with me
yeah could be sucking up or just awkward around women.
if anything like that happened again, I’d call it blatant sexual assault.
slapping ass after a roll is still crazy to me though 🤦 I’ve trained for over ten years and never had this happen on the mat. Change rooms are a different story.
lol i got caught in a reverse triangle by one of our coaches and it caught me so quickly i instantly tapped and tapped super hard - more like aggressive slapping
right on his tushie
he smiled and winked at me after
oh yeah i’m aware, i commented elsewhere that i don’t think thats normal lol. BEST case scenario is that he did it without thinking and is now extremely embarassed, but pretty creepy nonetheless
Lmao I'm a woman, once a dude caught me in north south in some kind of arm submission. It hurt a shit ton so I tapped really hard on his ass. I still kind of feel embarassed about it but I really had no other option...
Seriously though - totally inappropriate and I believe you immediately did the right thing by calling him on it and informing your coach. I think no need to escalate further unless he does it again I would however, start asking around to see who he's doing/done it to. If it's more than his friends, I'd say put um on blast.
EDIT: To add - IMO even doing to his friends is creepy. Even they might feel creeped out by it but don't want to say anything because it's accepted in other sports.
There are dudes I roll with I may give a butt slap but these are men I have been training with for almost a decade.
A woman whom I just met?
I don’t care how good the roll was. That is definitely still sturdy handshake or high five territory. Not ass slaps.
Really!? Do you not think you are overreacting? Based on what you have written and nothing else this seems pretty clear. He reacted with you like he would his friends. You told him it's not appropriate he explained and apologized. End of. If he does it again then I think your current reaction is more understandable.
That's not the overreaction part. "If he does stick to our gym, I plan on publicly saying how I feel". I get the sense that possibly you're projecting some sort of malice or sexual nature to what was done which again based only what you've written I think is unfounded.
i should have phrased it better, but there have been weird people in my gym before and you know the vibe is really off, i don’t know this guy’s intention. even if it was an accident, it’s still sexual misconduct in my book and should be taken seriously
Might have been a mistake, but I wouldn’t trust it 100%. I’m a guy and have never slapped the ass of a female training partner. I only slap the ass of my big booty Judy male training partner. He has an ass worth slapping.
No, you're right. You're not one of his buddies and it doesn't take a fuckin genius to understand that you don't do that with people you don't know for sure are cool with it. He's either malicious or fuckin stupid, and neither are your job to make allowances for. Talking to the coach was the right move, now monitor it and make sure it doesn't happen again, and if it does then you'll know that it's malicious. Hopefully you're at a good place that will handle that appropriately and you won't have backlash for bringing it up, but unfortunately that's a reality in some places.
Hopefully you tell everyone that goes there exactly what happened, even the part where you filed a police report.
So they can avoid you like the MF plague.
As a former athlete, if someone slapped me on the butt I probably wouldn’t think twice about it. That said, I’m not a woman with a man slapping my butt, and I very purposely would NOT slap a woman’s butt unless it was a thing that was common between us as athletes. And even then I’d now avoid it as a married man.
This would be considered very strange behaviour where I train. No one slaps anyone else’s ass here as it’s completely unnecessary and doesn’t seem very respectful. Imo it’s weird anyone finds this normal behaviour. BJJ has literally a whole slap hands fist bump thing to start or end a round.
Does he do it to everyone? If he does it sounds like you’re pissed off over equality. Is it only wrong because you’re a woman? I’m not saying you should accept the behavior but it clearly isn’t sexual in nature. Men do this all the time with each other. Watch a baseball game and they slap each other’s asses all the time.
Honestly he reacted correctly. He immediately apologized and it’s seems like this isn’t a thing that will be repeated. I don’t see why this is an issue that needs further addressing?
this is the first time i have talked to this guy. most classes have 60+ people. even if we were friends, when is it okay to slap a stranger or woman’s ass? it's a private part of my body. on top of it all, this is supposed to be a place to help woman and smaller people defend themselves. i feel like this is common sense, am i crazy?
This is not relevant, but considering someone’s butt a private part of their body doesn’t really work in grappling. Many moves involve using the opponents butt as a grip to pull yourself around, or to hold them in a certain position. Many moves even involve pressing ones head into their bum, ie. Stacking someone before a pass.
I want to be clear about my comment. It’s your body your rules. It ultimately doesn’t matter what I think of his butt slap, it only matters how it felt to you. So no, you’re not crazy. I’m only trying to make some points to possibly help you see the full situation with all the information before deciding what to do. I hope your take away from my comment was merely that this action seems likely to be non sexual which for me would be a big issue. He honestly sounds clueless.
I wouldn’t do that unless u know them and I would never do that to a woman. He apologized which could mean he’s actually clueless and innocent, but you can’t be doing that to people you don’t know.
Equality? Seriously think about this. Its personal boundaries dude. This is jiu jitsu not baseball, I used to play hockey and understand the culture but I have yet to experience “butt slapping culture” in jiu jitsu.
Did you fail to see the very next sentence? “I’m not saying you should accept the behavior”.
I don’t want my butt slapped either. But I wouldn’t make a capital case about it. I would just tell him I don’t like it like a grown up and then assuming he apologized leave it at that.
Maybe not every man wants to be slapped on the butt?
If "equality" means, that you can slap everyone without asking, then you're doing it wrong. I have seen men that were pissed off with this behavior.
Ah, you go straight to an ad hominem defense. Maybe you should use valid arguments instead of this feeble tactic.
On the other hand, your comparison to other sports was lacking. But what do I know with my poor reading comprehension.
So, maybe you could explain yourself more?
Another example of your poor reading comprehension. You must have read “ad hominem” at some point in your life and said oh yay a big boy word! However, you failed to comprehend its meaning. Here let me drop in a definition.
“This fallacy occurs when, instead of addressing someone's argument or position, you irrelevantly attack the person or some aspect of the person who is making the argument.”
See that word “irrelevantly?” Guess what? It’s relevant here. My point about you lacking reading comprehension was not irrelevant. It is very relevant because you either failed to read or comprehend my post.
Don’t use the big boy words if your don’t understand them.
Ad means "to, in direction of" and hominem stems from the Latin word for homo, meaning man, or human being. You are attacking me as a person, while I asked for clarification. Which is regarded polite in a discourse.
You know, my reading comprehension extends to Latin, among other languages.
Since you can't stick to a polite tone, I'll end our "discussion" here.
Be pissed but not fair to compare it to women bro. When was the last time you felt physically unsafe? A year ago? Decade ago at a bar fight? As a man doing jiu jitsu, I’d imagine you don’t feel this often.
Ask a woman the same question. Let us all know how she responds please.
Because OP is a member of the opposite sex this guy's actions were wildly inappropriate.
Having grown up playing all manner of competitive sports (Baseball, football, wrestling, BJJ, Soccer, Track & Field) the good job, pat on the butt was ever present on every team in every sport. It was just like a pat on the back to mean you did well.
That said, I never received or gave a pat on the butt in co-ed sport a single time. It never even crossed my mind.
I didn't say it was right. Like many things throughout history, they were ok for a time and later we look back on them and see that they were very far from acceptable behavior.
It is what happened though.
That's fair. I was addressing the apparent disconnect between male/male teams and coed teams. The same rules should apply because everyone is entitled to consent.
Good on you for saying something to him.
I don’t think it was malicious. I think you have already handled the situation. If it doesn’t happen again I would let it go.
Gross overreaction. A lot of football, lacrosse, hockey, basketball, baseball, and even track athletes do this as a way to break. Like a slap on the back or shoulder it isn't at all sexual in nature. Now can you discern his true intentions? Not at all. However something like this is pretty clearly benign. Making a big deal out of this will only make you look like a drama queen given the context.
You called him out and told the professor who should have a word nothing more should be done unless he does it again. There are people who slap and grab friends asses he may of forgot in the moment.
dude forreal... wtf... just move on lady he's not trying to fuck you... if it happens again its a different story but sheesh... shes really posting on reddit asking how she can take this a step further...
honestly, shes probably LOVING the attention and the comments on this.
I was expecting a shitpost, but this is creepy af. You should def confront him in front of other people if it ever happen again, also tell you professor what happened.
You’re in a contact sport where you put your ass in people’s face. You overreacted. You are 100% entitled to your opinion and bodily autonomy, but I personally wouldn’t want to roll with you if you did that to someone else. Consider whether this sport is for you. Jiu jitsu is great but if that upsets you, you might have a hard time.
I understand. I still think that’s not a big deal. Although I will say, if it was on a cheek, I stand by my statement. If it was up the crack, I would agree with you. You do need to have an appreciation for the different-than-normal social norms of that subculture. This isn’t “out in the regular world” where that would be extremely taboo. If you were just pulling your crotch into my face 5 seconds ago to finish a triangle and I didn’t view that as sexual, then maybe this isn’t either.
A butt slap after the round? Male to female? She didn’t overreact at all. Boundaries don’t cease to exist before, during or after a roll. I have never felt the urge to slap someones ass after a roll man or woman.
i don’t want to be a karen. where do you draw the line on being a karen? is it about his intent? i’m worried for my other female training partners, especially because some of them have had past trauma from other gyms or situations where they were being harassed.
In all seriousness you can just not roll with that guy in the future or roll with just females.
Personally as a male I never initiate a roll with women and if paired with one I just defend and let them work while being very careful about where my hands/body land.
You can just tell that guy not to do it if you do want to keep rolling with him, or slap him back or whatever. Ultimately his intent doesn't really matter if you don't want to be subject to such behavior he has to respect your views.
Horrible take my guy. It’s the norm to respect boundaries before, during, and after a roll. Again who gives a shit about other sports. This is not the culture in jiu jitsu. “Don’t be a karen” give me a break.
It absolutely is part of the culture. Just like sticking your nuts in someone's face when you lock in a triangle it is completely benign and doesn't propagate any sexual intent unless you make it out to be a sexual act. I've rolled with Renner Gracie who tapped me on the chest with the back of his hand when we were done. What would I have looked like if I complained in front of the whole class and tried to call him out for touching my breasts after the fact? OP voiced a reasonable concern, but this is a perfect exhibition of turning a molehill into a mountain. No need to be confrontational about something like this.
She’s a “karen” if she speaks to the professor but more so publicly denounces him. That’s the equivalent to betraying the waitress for messing up your order then loudly asking to see the manager.
Now I’m actually with you, that it’s not ideal during/after a roll involving mixed-sexes to slap each other’s rear-ends. But you should address him privately.
If the behaviour continues, then however you would like to continue, is appropriate.
I wanna give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Could have been a momentary lapse in judgment. He may feel horrible and embarrassed.
Like many others have said male athletes tend to do this to each other and it could have been an old habit.
I was rolling once as a white belt with a female purple belt and took her back. Went to seat belt and after a few seconds realized I was holding onto her boob with my choke hand. I immediately moved my hand once I realized what it was, but it took a minute because my wife had fake boobs and it had been 15 years since I had touched a natural one. I just didn’t recognize it at first. I apologized profusely and it was all good, but it was really embarrassing.
Dude some of these comments are so disappointing, women constantly doubt themselves when somebody touches them inappropriately about if they reacted correctly, should’ve done something different, etc, and here you have a woman who reacted very appropriately and did the correct thing in enforcing her boundaries immediately and telling the professor, and a lot of the responses are “you are overreacting men do this in sports all the time”.
I do think its hard to know how to proceed further without knowing more about this guy, if he does genuinely do this to other people, if he exhibits other creepy behaviors, etc, but OP I think your initial reaction was perfect. I think time will tell how this situation plays out. For instance, I think it would be a good sign if he came up to you again and seemed sincerely remorseful and apologized to you a second time. Who knows, maybe it was a muscle memory, exhausted after a roll type of thing. If this was truly a dumb accident, a good person would still feel terrible about it and want to make amends. If he did that, I’d let it go.
But if his behavior did have ill intent, he’s probably going to start trying to downplay it and act like you’re being crazy and irrational, and maybe even try to push YOU out of the gym (I’ve had this happen when I confronted a man about groping me during rolls). At that point I’d double down to your professors, the owner of the gym, whoever, that he needs to leave. Full stop. Go public, tell everyone what’s happening, all of it.
Hopefully your gym listens and supports you and asks him not to return. But unfortunately, they might not. At that point I’d want my contract terminated and I’d find a different gym. Not to avoid the creepy guy, but because why would I want to go to a gym where the owner and professors protect creeps? Let everyone in your gym know that that’s how the situation played out. And leave a review on their google page so women in the future can avoid the gym.
I hope it doesn’t come to all of that and I hope everything is resolved quickly and painlessly. I’m sorry you have to deal with all of this. And I’m sorry this happened to you.
I amzso disappointed in some of these comments. While I think you have handled it and would let the coach/professor handle it this time, if it happens again let the whole class know and don't be subtle. " DUDE! DON'T SLAP MY ASS! I TOLD YOU THAT BEFORE!" Would definitely work I think.
I am sorry that happened. It is never appropriate, and I have never saw it happen before in my gym.
Did they say ‘good game’? If they didn’t then he’s hella gay.
But in all seriousness, I hope the dude was deeply apologetic. Definitely not cool to slap someone’s ass if they aren’t part of your ‘fuck-fuck games’. Hopefully this is one of those out of habit things and not a sign that inappropriate touching is approved in your school.
I’d suggest that if the dude was truly apologetic, let your professor remind folks to keep their hands to themselves? This could be a good learning moment. If the dude gave you a dismissive ‘sorry’, then fuck him and drive the bus right over him. Embarrass his ass right out of the school.
no need to be angry, you told him it wasnt ok and it shouldnt happen again if he isnt a total weirdo. Fistbumps are appropriate.
If you want, just dont roll with him and it shouldnt be a problem.
There are a few people I avoid rolling with.
I’d give him the benefit of the doubt for this instance, it may have been an unconscious action, if he does it again after knowing how you feel about it then definitely make a scene about it, do whatever you have to do to let your instructor and the rest of the gym know that he makes you uncomfortable and continues to engage in inappropriate behavior against you after you’ve made it clear to him that you’re not okay with it
What is going on here?! It was inappropriate for sure, and you told him directly how it wasn't appropriate. He apologized, and that should be the end of it. The fact that you kept going on and on and threatening to make a public affair is way dramatic. Now, if he does it again, then have at it and destroy him.
Ah man that’s such a sports thing. Sometimes you just do it without noticing. If you played any sport growing up, it’s like a way to say good hustle. It gets embedded in you if you did play sports for a while.
It’s good intention with poor execution.
Seems like its handled but you're looking to take it a step further? Calm down, move on, and dont create unneeded drama where there is none.
He did it on accident and said sorry. It's over.
I’ve slapped an ass or two in my day. I think it’s funny because then years later you remember how awkward it was. Late at night. Intrusive thoughts win…
I would say that you are just beeing silly, but your last word changed everything lol.
You say to your teacher that you are going to file a police report, and DO that... Dude is probably going to be kicked out.
Well no its pretty common for men to do it to other men when it cones to sports. I personally dont but if someone did slap my ass after a roll and said “good shit” I would think twice. But a man doing it to a woman is weird!
What sports you playing? Yeah it’s a joke among plenty of people who do sports but it’s weird AF being a male and seeing or even thinking about another male doing it to me. If you think it’s OK, you better know the person well enough to where they’ll take it as a joke. You don’t do that to someone you do not know, regardless of gender. I remember some shot Kevin spacey said about sleeping peoples asses on set and it was just a thing people did. Just creepy AF all around.
100% depends on how close you are to the person. Me personally, I would never slap someones ass after a roll never found the need to. But to each their own!
I think the redditor you are replying to was pointing out that the pat on the butt it is very common for men's sport in America. It has been for me since I was a kid up to now.
It has never been a thing in any co-ed sport I've ever been involved in.
Yeah this was very common in high school sports among males. I'll even admit that I engaged in it. The idea of a male slapping a female's ass is so fucked up though.
Not even remotely cool. Fuck that guy. Off is a trend sun this guy, being inappropriate, he needs to be removed or you should find another school. I'd speak to the other females and see what their experiences have been like with this guy.
Mmm. I don't really believe him.
You spoke on it, and I'd let it go *for now* as long as he was spoken to about it, but keep your eye on him.
If it happens again, knock the fuck out of him. If it really was a second natured butt smack, he'll have learned his lesson and consciously not do it again to you.
I have never experienced that my entire career. You should definitely tell, they should revoke his membership, and you should file a police report if you choose to take that route.
The people defending him by saying “he apologized, get over it” are wild… I am about as far as you can get from a feminist, but I don’t know any rational person who would feel comfortable slapping a woman they don’t know on the ass, post-roll or not.
You were right originally when you sounded angry. Keep that up. He’s likely a predator if he felt that comfortable, and he was testing the boundaries.
Slapping a woman’s ass is universally inappropriate in any setting. Men know this.
White belt sounds like a socially underdeveloped idiot that needed the call out, but don’t throw your image into the fire by looking like you don’t have control over your own self.
Treat him like a child, present yourself as a calm authority in the matter, and then let the child go back to his playtime.
You overreact and people will just start avoiding you at your own gym. You’ll look like a drama magnet.
Make your boundaries known, enforce them if it happens again. Telling your professor was good, just hope that they watch out for this type of behavior.
i feel like this would be unfair. i’m the higher belt, i have represented the team successfully in comp for the last 3 years. he has been here no longer than a year
I’m not saying only him. I’m saying set the boundary, and make sure the folks running the gym are aware of it.
If the white belt doesn’t respect it, don’t roll with him. If the gym doesn’t help you enforce it, then there’s a bigger issue.
When I first read this, I thought it was a male writing, and I thought no big deal. Then, when discovering op is a woman, that changes things. He probably didn't mean anything by it, but he can't ever do that again
As a girl I would have never thought about filing a report… is this common? (Imagining if I was in OPs shoes) I only train with men and I wouldn’t even know how to go about doing that tbh.
Are you on something or taking the piss? The guy reacted instinctively like we would with male friends. Was pulled up on it, not doubt feels embarrassed and apologized. What more do you want?
Me? No. Do I believe someone who does the same thing with his friends/team mates when he plays some other sport could do this.... Yep I can very easily believe this. Question for you. Are you telling me that there is so little chance this could be true that every comment on this thread saying it is very plausible is purposefully defending someone they believe intentionally committed an assault on?
There intent may not be to defend him, but they’re not giving it a real thought. I don’t know a single man in my life who would think it’s okay to slap a woman on the ass 😂 I mean seriously, think about it just for a second and tell me again if you think it’s a reasonable, instinctual, mistake.
Do you believe that someone could say something to another person they would find offensive and then immediately realise after they said it that they shouldn't have said that to the person and be apologetic? If you do then now can you not imagine that rather than words someone can perform an action without thinking and feel the same way after? Now I'm not saying this is what happened I have no idea who this guy is. However you asked me to think about it again.... Is it reasonable, no, never said it was. Do I believe it could be an instinctual mistake 100% yes
I get the point you’re making, and I think you’re approaching it fairly, but I just disagree. I’ve put my foot in my mouth more than once, words are a lot easier to mess up. It just doesn’t sit right with me that someone would think it’s ok to smack a girls ass… haha maybe it’s just me, but I feel like people are taught from a very young age, especially in this over sensitive world we live in, not to make women feel uncomfortable. Smacking a girls ass is about as uncomfortable as it gets if you don’t have a relationship with that girl where slapping the ass is ok, whatever type of relationship that is.
I am plenty old, and pretty insensitive to most things, but when I read the post and the comments I was just shocked how many were saying she was over reacting. If that was my daughter, I would have told her to file a police report (not saying it would have gone anywhere, but it damn sure would document that dudes behavior). If that was my gym, they wouldn’t be a member anymore.
Either way, I’m probably giving it too much thought. It doesn’t affect me. I enjoyed the conversation with you! I really do see your point, I just don’t buy that it’s a valid excuse. To me, it gives off predator vibes testing the boundaries of his next prey.
maybe my take is hot, me and the boys on the mat have done wild shit to each other. Never once have I done some crazy shit to a woman or have they done it to me. We all get freaky on the mat it tends to stay within the genders from what I have seen. That's just me, maybe I'm not for equality
You guys are wild not thinking that this wasn’t more than an “oops, sorry” situation. Have you EVER accidentally slapped a girl on the ass ever in your life?
This happened to me once, super embarrassing. Finish a roll with a woman who was much more experienced than me, say "thanks" and without thinking (and without looking) i reach to slap her on the back just like I would any of the guys, accidentally slap her directly on the butt. I was like, "ope, sorry sorry" and I'm sure I made a face. She gave me the "eh it's nothing" hand-wave, and thank God that was the end of that. I still cringe thinking about it several years later.
All you can do after that is shrimp right out the door. 😂
I have done the same thing as well. It wasn’t directly on the butt, but like upper outer thigh. Still, I was super embarrassed. Neither of us acknowledged when it happened but the next day I apologized to her because I was cringing about it at home. She said she didn’t even notice lol
Do what you feel is right.
I think I should treat female training partners like my male partners so I’m going to slap her on the ass, give a squeeze, and say, great roll bro. Your package felt huge today!
Done that accidentally as well
That's a tall ass woman... or a severe miss
His reaction would suggest he used to play sports where it's common, not sexual in nature, and an acknowledgement of you as an opponent. He's a white belt so he probably doesn't know etiquette. Telling him was likely enough. There's no need to escalate to the police unless he does it again. Edit: this isn't gender specific. Women slap each other's bums in volleyball, basketball, hockey. Anyone saying to file a police report right away has clearly never played any sports.
… idk bro i’ve slapped my teammates asses before yes. but they were all dudes. if it was a woman i would think twice… but maybe its just me being a prude
No, you’re right. I feel the same way. I’d be ok with a dude slapping my son’s ass, but not my daughter’s. Very different connotations, and very different dynamic.
Is it really tho, or are we sexualizing the opposite gender. I think the possibility that it could be misconstrued as sexual is why guys dont do it. But it can be done with platonic intent. But on the girls side, shell think about it too deeply, mix in the emotions, and now what was a friendly acknowledgment of competition is a crossroad of many possible outcomes. To sum it up, why isnt it gay when you slap the same genders butt? Its not sexual at all, is why. Also most women think about sex way more but dont want to be seen as sluts (yay sexual freedom for all), so the guy may have just introduce a million thoughts in her head cause of the way she thinks, and she projects it by blaming the dude for slapping her butt. Even if she liked it, the slut defense will kick in. So yes theres just alot of nuance that shouldnt exist but does due to gender dynamics and it goes to show all the rah rah about sexual freedom and acceptance is a sham facade tool we use to seem morally grandiose. And its a lowest common denominator thing. If one person in the entire gym sees it as sexual, itll coerce everyone else to adjust to that or deal with gossip and comments.
I don't slap anyone's ass at all! Haha. Where are all you guys training at?
It's true that this question depends on the custom. It's always been understood that it's customary in same-sex sports such as baseball, American football, wrestling, female volleyball/basketball. But my immediate sense is that BJJ has never developed a common-knowledge custom of male-slapping-female-asses. That is definitely a morally relevant difference in this case, given the lack of a common-knowledge custom. You say it's not gender specific \*for same-sex sports\*. But BJJ isn't a same-sex sport. So that is a morally relevant difference. Just as some support for my claim: I've rolled at least somewhere around 12 gyms in two different states in the US spanning 10+ years and have never seen this happen. So IMO OP is not expressing a lack of appreciation for custom. I would hope that things could be settled without resorting to filing a formal legal complaint of any kind. But I don't think the ass-slapper can appeal to custom to get him off the hook here. And if he is trying to make the practice of male-slapping-female-ass a custom at his gym/in BJJ more generally, that wasn't exactly a wise way to go about "normalizing" it. Lol. Jeez. At any rate, I respectfully dissent from your opinion.
It was a reflex. OP needs to calm down and not blow an honest mistake completely out of proportion by listening to unreasonable individuals on Reddit who think there's malice in every negative human interaction. Also, the courts would likely rule there was no ill intent (mens rea) in the 1-time ass slap from someone trying out a new sport and thinking it's acceptable as it is in many other sports which the defendant clearly participated in.
You seem to know a lot about this guy’s inner thoughts and intentions.
I wasn't going to contact the authorities, just wanted to know why people were saying it
They forget they are not the centre of the universe. That guy was going about his day, not thinking about you, your bum, or anything else about you. He was just competing and when he gets home he'll think about food, then TV, then sleep. That ass-slap was nothing to him, just a reflex, like getting a glass of water. He wouldn't have even thought about it twice if you didn't say anything. Most people can't fathom that they're not even an after-thought to most people.
Exactly. Grew up playing football ball, baseball, boxing, etc. we call this ass slap an “atta’ boy”, it’s the equivalent of saying “good game” or “nice play”, or in this case “good roll”. While certainly within your rights to express that you would not like that repeated, I’m gonna come out and tell you to relax. You asked him not to do it again, that’s good enough. If he repeats the act then sure, tell a faculty member. But he wasn’t trying to grab a cheek for any sort of thrill seeking. It was a compliment of the performance. That said, the fact that OP is a woman would certainly mean that I wouldn’t do that. It’s a potential line being crossed and for the exact reasons you stated, I would never do it to a woman for fear of her taking offense.
Yes, your second paragraph is key. The DR seems to think this guy didn't register that OP was a woman, nah I call BS, nobody is that dense.
Haha there are quite a few subreddits that would argue differently. For example apparently it's difficult for even Drs to tell whether a baby is a boy or girl when born. You should choose your words more carefully, especially during ~~pride~~ *mental health awareness* month. SMH ironically.
It's not pride month. It men's mental health awareness month.
We agree on that for sure brother.
I don't disagree that it would be disproportionate to go after the guy legally. If it was an honest mistake, an apology should suffice. I meant to suggest as much in my previous post when I expressed hope "that things could be settled without resorting..." And yeah if it was an honest mistake then the action didn't express a culpable mind. It would be a waste of legal resources to turn this into something it clearly seems not to be. Didn't mean to rev any engines. I just don't think an appeal to custom defends his action, regardless of intent. That's all.
Why is it his reflex to touch another person's ass? "It's just the culture." I don't care. It's the culture in Afghanistan to rape little boys, is that okay? Culture doesn't supercede the rights of the individual. This shit is sexual assault and normalizing it creates an environment that is extremely unwelcoming to anyone with sexual trauma, male or female. Stop touching people's butts.
I would imagine all of bjj would be a trigger for anyone who experienced sexual trauma, not just the ass slap. It was an honest mistake. If a guy from Italy does a double cheek kiss when meeting you, are you going to call the cops? If you don't like it, say something. If it keeps happening, escalate. It's very simple. Sounds like you have some things to work through.
Combat arts SHOULD be a place where people with trauma can learn to feel safer. Anyone choosing BJJ is consenting to being touched while sparring. This in no way means that they are also consenting to being touched on the ass afterwards. Why are you all so eager to defend butt touching as a tradition? Why is it so important to preserve this? >Sounds like you have some things to work through A blatant and honestly disgusting attempt to discredit me by implying that I myself have experienced sexual trauma, as if that would make me LESS informed on the issue. I have not, but that's irrelevant.
Nobody is defending the tradition of butt touching. Why are you so adamant on accusing someone of sexual assault over an honest mistake? Do you really hate the tradition so much that you would ruin someone's life over it? Being falsely accused of SA that is horrible and stays with someone forever. There's no justification for your willingness to destroy someone's life. Your radical way of dealing with someone who is likely a good person that made a mistake is disgusting. That's what you need to work through. Be more understanding and stop thinking everyone is out to get you, I promise your life will be better.
Chill out. This mofo is ready to hang people from the gallows for a simple reflex / misunderstanding. People are soft as cotton these days, making mountains out of molehills. It was not sexual assault. Gtfo with that shit. Should he apologize and refrain from doing that with women, absolutely. Should he feel guilty or be punished for sexual assault? F*** no.
>It was not sexual assault If OP had called the police the person would have been arrested. It is LITERALLY sexual assault, legally and morally.
No it is not. Context and intent are imperative to take into account. Life is not black and white. Shades of gray make up the vast majority of situations and it is important to understand that.
IIRC, The Kink Doctor suggested it was a reflex owing to experience with other sports, where butt-pats are customary and everyone knows they are customary.
Bro if the dude wanted to cop a feel he had several minutes on the ground rolling around to do it. This is BJJ where he could've motorboated her during a roll and called it a pressure pass. He could have tea bagged her and called it north/south. Take the back and get control of an arm right on her chest and grab some boobies. So many different things a creepo could do during a roll and he didn't. Stop it.
They are consenting to physical touch while sparring. In no way does this mean they are also consenting to being touched on the ass afterwards.
That's not my point. My point is if the guy was trying to cop a feel he had LOADS of opportunities to do that and more during a roll. If he had bad intentions he could have let those play out during the roll and not in a very obvious way afterwards. Ffs man you reddit people are something else.
That is an absolutely absurd take. You just compared a contextually appropriate butt spap to raping little boys. Your opinion is officially irrelevant.
Even though I agree with the general worries here about the overly punitive stance re this case, I think what Grapplebadger has said here is a misinterpretation of the point that the concerned poster was making. I think they were saying something more like “appeal to custom/culture isnt a good justification of a practice per se,” which, in general, it certainly isn’t. I dont think they meant to morally equate sexually abusive practices in Afghanistan with a sportsmanlike butt-pat. But even if custom isnt a good justification of a practice per se, it’s certainly enough to get you off the hook for a host of actions which would otherwise be apparently wrong.
Well first off thank you for an actual thoughtful take on what I said. Refreshing, sincerely. Here’s my counter-argument though. I think you’re misinterpreting me. Because there are a couple key points here. 1. This is an opt-in subculture, not culture at large. This isn’t some boys will be boys stuff, it’s a specific culture and context wherein that butt slap explicitly means something different. So this woman is wrong because she opted in, but tried to apply general cultural norms to a subculture-specific action. If I went to a Hell’s Angels clubhouse, and complained about the drinking and swearing, I’m the asshole. Maybe elsewhere that behavior is inappropriate, but in that context it’s culturally appropriate. So in that way, culture absolutely IS a valid defense. You trying to kiss me on the cheek here is weird. In Paris it’s polite. Shaking a woman’s hand when you meet her is respectful and appropriate. If she’s Orthodox Jewish, it’s very inappropriate. See my point? Context matters. And 2. The previous poster is guilty of an argumentum ad absurdum fallacy. Because they directly DID make that “raping little boys” comparison (which is problematic at best as an assertion, straight racist at worst) and it’s an absurd comparison, devoid of rationality or context or any perspective. “You shouldn’t drink beer. Hitler drank beer”. Similar comparison. While drinking beer might have some reasonable criticisms, that is not one of them.
Glad you appreciate my thoughtfulness. Cheers. You're right about context mattering. But I still think you're wrong on 1. Even in the subculture, I don't think there's a male-to-female ass-slapping custom. If there was, she wouldn't have a complaint. I have patted female training partners on the knee, back and shoulder after a roll. Never on the ass. And I'm not sure about 2. I guess it'd be best to hear back from them to clarify what the purpose of their use of that analogy was. And yeah as a matter of positive law, if there's a custom of certain touchings in certain context, it's certainly a defense against battery or negligent infliction of emotional distress or whatever other civil case you might try to make. My earlier point was just that with time, persuasive moral objections might be raised against some custom which eventually leads to its revision, repeal, abolition, what have you. So, it's possible to find yourself in a situation where you have a valid defense on grounds of custom, and yet that custom might eventually prove to be unjustifiable or even impermissible. The Jewish Orthodox practices towards females might be one example.
I agree that “male to female ass slapping” isn’t probably a specific custom native to the jiu jitsu world. I disagree that “every ass slap is the same” and my objection is that we are judging this circumstance like we would outside jiu jitsu. We are missing key details. I’ve probably “slapped an ass” by some standards, but to me it was a hip. There’s a big difference between the outside of a butt cheek and the inside. If/when I did it, I guarantee it wasn’t intended as anything remotely sexual, or even as a “good game”. I am simply less cognizant of some of the typical rules of physical proximity, because of the context. Like: we don’t know what position they were in. Was he on top? On bottom? The details of this matter. Was it hard? Soft? What part of her butt did he touch? While it’s certainly possible that what he did was malicious and creepy, we are missing SO much info. Which is why I’m not defending his actions per se, I’m simply not comfortable condemning them.
Yeah I think we're in agreement on the key points here. Your points are all well-taken. We didn't see shit. He also apologized straightaway. Even if he was trying to gratify himself, I think he merits the benefit of doubt here. Mob justice gives me the chills. Jeez.
Weird, when I signed up at my gym I never checked a box opting in to get my ass slapped. Did you?? I’ve been on various sports teams my entire life, and ass slapping hasn’t been normal in a single one of them. I have never seen someone at my gym slap someone else’s ass. If someone at my gym “reflexively” slapped my ass I’d “reflexively” punch them in the face. The 45 year old male hobbyist probably wants you to slap his ass just as little as the 22 year old female hobbyist does.
Heck, even men slap each other in the cheeks all the time during basketball games
What the fuck??!?! A police report??!? First off that's insane. Secondly unless he said inappropriate shit while he did it or grabbed it and shook, or motorboated her, that's insane and will be a waste of time. It'd be very easy to do this by accident or not thinking about the fact it's a woman. I give a light pat to the back/shoulder of dudes I roll with so I could do it on accident also. JFC reddit. Stop being reddit.
I came a microsecond away from slapping a chick's ass after a roll completely out of habit. Been doing it in sports for years and now do it all the time with the dudes on the mat... cut the kid some slack I'm sure he's embarrassed as f.
If I gave him the benefit of the doubt, it’s possible he forgot that you’re of the opposite sex, and wasn’t thinking. I’m not a butt slapper (at least on the mat), so I wouldn’t know. If he seems like his intentions were genuinely creepy, then I’d say go ahead and complain loudly.
i can’t tell, it felt like he was giving me more attention a little overly friendly, but i assumed it was because i was a higher belt and he was looking to either impress me or get a round with me
yeah could be sucking up or just awkward around women. if anything like that happened again, I’d call it blatant sexual assault. slapping ass after a roll is still crazy to me though 🤦 I’ve trained for over ten years and never had this happen on the mat. Change rooms are a different story.
lol i got caught in a reverse triangle by one of our coaches and it caught me so quickly i instantly tapped and tapped super hard - more like aggressive slapping right on his tushie he smiled and winked at me after
this didn’t happen during the round. think it’s totally reasonable if a training partner slaps my butt unintentionally when i’m submitting them
oh yeah i’m aware, i commented elsewhere that i don’t think thats normal lol. BEST case scenario is that he did it without thinking and is now extremely embarassed, but pretty creepy nonetheless
Lmao I'm a woman, once a dude caught me in north south in some kind of arm submission. It hurt a shit ton so I tapped really hard on his ass. I still kind of feel embarassed about it but I really had no other option...
should’ve winked at him afterwards to establish dominance - let him know you LET him get that arm sub
https://preview.redd.it/j7jxndlg4e7d1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=2dedf930ac061a5f07bc5ad3e5c6694f0731b9ad
Slap ass.
Seriously though - totally inappropriate and I believe you immediately did the right thing by calling him on it and informing your coach. I think no need to escalate further unless he does it again I would however, start asking around to see who he's doing/done it to. If it's more than his friends, I'd say put um on blast. EDIT: To add - IMO even doing to his friends is creepy. Even they might feel creeped out by it but don't want to say anything because it's accepted in other sports.
There are dudes I roll with I may give a butt slap but these are men I have been training with for almost a decade. A woman whom I just met? I don’t care how good the roll was. That is definitely still sturdy handshake or high five territory. Not ass slaps.
Really!? Do you not think you are overreacting? Based on what you have written and nothing else this seems pretty clear. He reacted with you like he would his friends. You told him it's not appropriate he explained and apologized. End of. If he does it again then I think your current reaction is more understandable.
I think it was pretty appropriate to let the professor know. If this happens again, than the professor knows its systemic, not an accident.
That's not the overreaction part. "If he does stick to our gym, I plan on publicly saying how I feel". I get the sense that possibly you're projecting some sort of malice or sexual nature to what was done which again based only what you've written I think is unfounded.
i should have phrased it better, but there have been weird people in my gym before and you know the vibe is really off, i don’t know this guy’s intention. even if it was an accident, it’s still sexual misconduct in my book and should be taken seriously
you should not throw around phrases like that if it was an accident, that’s crazy
Might have been a mistake, but I wouldn’t trust it 100%. I’m a guy and have never slapped the ass of a female training partner. I only slap the ass of my big booty Judy male training partner. He has an ass worth slapping.
In the gayest sport on earth, *intergender* ass-slap is out of the norm. We're *supposed* to be keeping jiu jitsu gay.
No, you're right. You're not one of his buddies and it doesn't take a fuckin genius to understand that you don't do that with people you don't know for sure are cool with it. He's either malicious or fuckin stupid, and neither are your job to make allowances for. Talking to the coach was the right move, now monitor it and make sure it doesn't happen again, and if it does then you'll know that it's malicious. Hopefully you're at a good place that will handle that appropriately and you won't have backlash for bringing it up, but unfortunately that's a reality in some places.
Hopefully you tell everyone that goes there exactly what happened, even the part where you filed a police report. So they can avoid you like the MF plague.
🤣🤣 I love you. You’re a wonderful person. Have a great day!
lol why don't i just all the men and my family to come and stare at him during rounds
it’s a joke guys smh
As a former athlete, if someone slapped me on the butt I probably wouldn’t think twice about it. That said, I’m not a woman with a man slapping my butt, and I very purposely would NOT slap a woman’s butt unless it was a thing that was common between us as athletes. And even then I’d now avoid it as a married man.
This would be considered very strange behaviour where I train. No one slaps anyone else’s ass here as it’s completely unnecessary and doesn’t seem very respectful. Imo it’s weird anyone finds this normal behaviour. BJJ has literally a whole slap hands fist bump thing to start or end a round.
Same here.
I never slap butts and I played football and wrestled through high school
Does he do it to everyone? If he does it sounds like you’re pissed off over equality. Is it only wrong because you’re a woman? I’m not saying you should accept the behavior but it clearly isn’t sexual in nature. Men do this all the time with each other. Watch a baseball game and they slap each other’s asses all the time. Honestly he reacted correctly. He immediately apologized and it’s seems like this isn’t a thing that will be repeated. I don’t see why this is an issue that needs further addressing?
this is the first time i have talked to this guy. most classes have 60+ people. even if we were friends, when is it okay to slap a stranger or woman’s ass? it's a private part of my body. on top of it all, this is supposed to be a place to help woman and smaller people defend themselves. i feel like this is common sense, am i crazy?
This is not relevant, but considering someone’s butt a private part of their body doesn’t really work in grappling. Many moves involve using the opponents butt as a grip to pull yourself around, or to hold them in a certain position. Many moves even involve pressing ones head into their bum, ie. Stacking someone before a pass.
this is after the roll. sure, i’ve framed against people’s breasts and had people tea bag me in many rounds. this was not during rolling
Although I've heard of a Mother's Milk submission, I've never heard of a "Father's Teabag" submission... and I'm thankful for that 🤣
I want to be clear about my comment. It’s your body your rules. It ultimately doesn’t matter what I think of his butt slap, it only matters how it felt to you. So no, you’re not crazy. I’m only trying to make some points to possibly help you see the full situation with all the information before deciding what to do. I hope your take away from my comment was merely that this action seems likely to be non sexual which for me would be a big issue. He honestly sounds clueless.
I wouldn’t do that unless u know them and I would never do that to a woman. He apologized which could mean he’s actually clueless and innocent, but you can’t be doing that to people you don’t know.
Equality? Seriously think about this. Its personal boundaries dude. This is jiu jitsu not baseball, I used to play hockey and understand the culture but I have yet to experience “butt slapping culture” in jiu jitsu.
Did you fail to see the very next sentence? “I’m not saying you should accept the behavior”. I don’t want my butt slapped either. But I wouldn’t make a capital case about it. I would just tell him I don’t like it like a grown up and then assuming he apologized leave it at that.
Maybe not every man wants to be slapped on the butt? If "equality" means, that you can slap everyone without asking, then you're doing it wrong. I have seen men that were pissed off with this behavior.
You are poor at reading comprehension
Ah, you go straight to an ad hominem defense. Maybe you should use valid arguments instead of this feeble tactic. On the other hand, your comparison to other sports was lacking. But what do I know with my poor reading comprehension. So, maybe you could explain yourself more?
Another example of your poor reading comprehension. You must have read “ad hominem” at some point in your life and said oh yay a big boy word! However, you failed to comprehend its meaning. Here let me drop in a definition. “This fallacy occurs when, instead of addressing someone's argument or position, you irrelevantly attack the person or some aspect of the person who is making the argument.” See that word “irrelevantly?” Guess what? It’s relevant here. My point about you lacking reading comprehension was not irrelevant. It is very relevant because you either failed to read or comprehend my post. Don’t use the big boy words if your don’t understand them.
Ad means "to, in direction of" and hominem stems from the Latin word for homo, meaning man, or human being. You are attacking me as a person, while I asked for clarification. Which is regarded polite in a discourse. You know, my reading comprehension extends to Latin, among other languages. Since you can't stick to a polite tone, I'll end our "discussion" here.
I'm a man and I hate it when other men slap my ass. Am I also pissed off at equality? Or is that reserved for women only?
Be pissed but not fair to compare it to women bro. When was the last time you felt physically unsafe? A year ago? Decade ago at a bar fight? As a man doing jiu jitsu, I’d imagine you don’t feel this often. Ask a woman the same question. Let us all know how she responds please.
Bro I think you completely missed my point here
do you tell the person who did it that you aren’t comfortable with it?
Horrible take, dude
He apologised, end of story. Move on, if he does it again then it's a problem.
You should probably just quit
Because OP is a member of the opposite sex this guy's actions were wildly inappropriate. Having grown up playing all manner of competitive sports (Baseball, football, wrestling, BJJ, Soccer, Track & Field) the good job, pat on the butt was ever present on every team in every sport. It was just like a pat on the back to mean you did well. That said, I never received or gave a pat on the butt in co-ed sport a single time. It never even crossed my mind.
You shouldn't have given or received ass pats on male only team either.
I didn't say it was right. Like many things throughout history, they were ok for a time and later we look back on them and see that they were very far from acceptable behavior. It is what happened though.
That's fair. I was addressing the apparent disconnect between male/male teams and coed teams. The same rules should apply because everyone is entitled to consent.
It is the height of privilege to insert yourself into another’s culture and pass judgment.
Good on you for saying something to him. I don’t think it was malicious. I think you have already handled the situation. If it doesn’t happen again I would let it go.
Sounds like you need to get over yourself
Gross overreaction. A lot of football, lacrosse, hockey, basketball, baseball, and even track athletes do this as a way to break. Like a slap on the back or shoulder it isn't at all sexual in nature. Now can you discern his true intentions? Not at all. However something like this is pretty clearly benign. Making a big deal out of this will only make you look like a drama queen given the context.
You called him out and told the professor who should have a word nothing more should be done unless he does it again. There are people who slap and grab friends asses he may of forgot in the moment.
What the actual fuck?
Man shit like this is why women give me anxiety, I'd rather just avoid them except for sex
dude forreal... wtf... just move on lady he's not trying to fuck you... if it happens again its a different story but sheesh... shes really posting on reddit asking how she can take this a step further... honestly, shes probably LOVING the attention and the comments on this.
I was expecting a shitpost, but this is creepy af. You should def confront him in front of other people if it ever happen again, also tell you professor what happened.
You’re in a contact sport where you put your ass in people’s face. You overreacted. You are 100% entitled to your opinion and bodily autonomy, but I personally wouldn’t want to roll with you if you did that to someone else. Consider whether this sport is for you. Jiu jitsu is great but if that upsets you, you might have a hard time.
this was outside of the roll
I understand. I still think that’s not a big deal. Although I will say, if it was on a cheek, I stand by my statement. If it was up the crack, I would agree with you. You do need to have an appreciation for the different-than-normal social norms of that subculture. This isn’t “out in the regular world” where that would be extremely taboo. If you were just pulling your crotch into my face 5 seconds ago to finish a triangle and I didn’t view that as sexual, then maybe this isn’t either.
A butt slap after the round? Male to female? She didn’t overreact at all. Boundaries don’t cease to exist before, during or after a roll. I have never felt the urge to slap someones ass after a roll man or woman.
Meh. Subcultures have their own norms. Fine if you don’t share the same opinion, but I’m not remotely wrong on this.
It happens in all kinds of sports. Don’t be a Karen.
i don’t want to be a karen. where do you draw the line on being a karen? is it about his intent? i’m worried for my other female training partners, especially because some of them have had past trauma from other gyms or situations where they were being harassed.
In all seriousness you can just not roll with that guy in the future or roll with just females. Personally as a male I never initiate a roll with women and if paired with one I just defend and let them work while being very careful about where my hands/body land. You can just tell that guy not to do it if you do want to keep rolling with him, or slap him back or whatever. Ultimately his intent doesn't really matter if you don't want to be subject to such behavior he has to respect your views.
You're absolutely not being a Karen.
Horrible take my guy. It’s the norm to respect boundaries before, during, and after a roll. Again who gives a shit about other sports. This is not the culture in jiu jitsu. “Don’t be a karen” give me a break.
It absolutely is part of the culture. Just like sticking your nuts in someone's face when you lock in a triangle it is completely benign and doesn't propagate any sexual intent unless you make it out to be a sexual act. I've rolled with Renner Gracie who tapped me on the chest with the back of his hand when we were done. What would I have looked like if I complained in front of the whole class and tried to call him out for touching my breasts after the fact? OP voiced a reasonable concern, but this is a perfect exhibition of turning a molehill into a mountain. No need to be confrontational about something like this.
She’s a “karen” if she speaks to the professor but more so publicly denounces him. That’s the equivalent to betraying the waitress for messing up your order then loudly asking to see the manager. Now I’m actually with you, that it’s not ideal during/after a roll involving mixed-sexes to slap each other’s rear-ends. But you should address him privately. If the behaviour continues, then however you would like to continue, is appropriate.
No?! What the hell are you on about
I wanna give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Could have been a momentary lapse in judgment. He may feel horrible and embarrassed. Like many others have said male athletes tend to do this to each other and it could have been an old habit.
I was rolling once as a white belt with a female purple belt and took her back. Went to seat belt and after a few seconds realized I was holding onto her boob with my choke hand. I immediately moved my hand once I realized what it was, but it took a minute because my wife had fake boobs and it had been 15 years since I had touched a natural one. I just didn’t recognize it at first. I apologized profusely and it was all good, but it was really embarrassing.
Dude some of these comments are so disappointing, women constantly doubt themselves when somebody touches them inappropriately about if they reacted correctly, should’ve done something different, etc, and here you have a woman who reacted very appropriately and did the correct thing in enforcing her boundaries immediately and telling the professor, and a lot of the responses are “you are overreacting men do this in sports all the time”. I do think its hard to know how to proceed further without knowing more about this guy, if he does genuinely do this to other people, if he exhibits other creepy behaviors, etc, but OP I think your initial reaction was perfect. I think time will tell how this situation plays out. For instance, I think it would be a good sign if he came up to you again and seemed sincerely remorseful and apologized to you a second time. Who knows, maybe it was a muscle memory, exhausted after a roll type of thing. If this was truly a dumb accident, a good person would still feel terrible about it and want to make amends. If he did that, I’d let it go. But if his behavior did have ill intent, he’s probably going to start trying to downplay it and act like you’re being crazy and irrational, and maybe even try to push YOU out of the gym (I’ve had this happen when I confronted a man about groping me during rolls). At that point I’d double down to your professors, the owner of the gym, whoever, that he needs to leave. Full stop. Go public, tell everyone what’s happening, all of it. Hopefully your gym listens and supports you and asks him not to return. But unfortunately, they might not. At that point I’d want my contract terminated and I’d find a different gym. Not to avoid the creepy guy, but because why would I want to go to a gym where the owner and professors protect creeps? Let everyone in your gym know that that’s how the situation played out. And leave a review on their google page so women in the future can avoid the gym. I hope it doesn’t come to all of that and I hope everything is resolved quickly and painlessly. I’m sorry you have to deal with all of this. And I’m sorry this happened to you.
Tell me you never played any sports in your life without telling me you never played any sports in your life.
I played hockey, softball and ultimate frisbee, this might be only culturally a part of some sports and not co-ed sports
It's cool just get triggered and cause a bunch of drama over nothing
I amzso disappointed in some of these comments. While I think you have handled it and would let the coach/professor handle it this time, if it happens again let the whole class know and don't be subtle. " DUDE! DON'T SLAP MY ASS! I TOLD YOU THAT BEFORE!" Would definitely work I think. I am sorry that happened. It is never appropriate, and I have never saw it happen before in my gym.
Did they say ‘good game’? If they didn’t then he’s hella gay. But in all seriousness, I hope the dude was deeply apologetic. Definitely not cool to slap someone’s ass if they aren’t part of your ‘fuck-fuck games’. Hopefully this is one of those out of habit things and not a sign that inappropriate touching is approved in your school. I’d suggest that if the dude was truly apologetic, let your professor remind folks to keep their hands to themselves? This could be a good learning moment. If the dude gave you a dismissive ‘sorry’, then fuck him and drive the bus right over him. Embarrass his ass right out of the school.
no need to be angry, you told him it wasnt ok and it shouldnt happen again if he isnt a total weirdo. Fistbumps are appropriate. If you want, just dont roll with him and it shouldnt be a problem. There are a few people I avoid rolling with.
I’d give him the benefit of the doubt for this instance, it may have been an unconscious action, if he does it again after knowing how you feel about it then definitely make a scene about it, do whatever you have to do to let your instructor and the rest of the gym know that he makes you uncomfortable and continues to engage in inappropriate behavior against you after you’ve made it clear to him that you’re not okay with it
The buzz words are strong with OP, so far I’ve seen “systemic” “past trauma” and “sexual misconduct”.
What is going on here?! It was inappropriate for sure, and you told him directly how it wasn't appropriate. He apologized, and that should be the end of it. The fact that you kept going on and on and threatening to make a public affair is way dramatic. Now, if he does it again, then have at it and destroy him.
Ah man that’s such a sports thing. Sometimes you just do it without noticing. If you played any sport growing up, it’s like a way to say good hustle. It gets embedded in you if you did play sports for a while. It’s good intention with poor execution.
First off, did he say”good game” afterwards? If so, totally permissible.
Seems like its handled but you're looking to take it a step further? Calm down, move on, and dont create unneeded drama where there is none. He did it on accident and said sorry. It's over.
What's with all the ass slaps? We just fist bump and sometimes quick hug after rolls Yall need Jesus!🤣🤣🤣
Get over it
I’ve slapped an ass or two in my day. I think it’s funny because then years later you remember how awkward it was. Late at night. Intrusive thoughts win…
I would say that you are just beeing silly, but your last word changed everything lol. You say to your teacher that you are going to file a police report, and DO that... Dude is probably going to be kicked out.
Isn't it odd that it's only an issue once issue once you realized the OP was a woman? Should be an issue regardless of gender tbh
Well no its pretty common for men to do it to other men when it cones to sports. I personally dont but if someone did slap my ass after a roll and said “good shit” I would think twice. But a man doing it to a woman is weird!
What sports you playing? Yeah it’s a joke among plenty of people who do sports but it’s weird AF being a male and seeing or even thinking about another male doing it to me. If you think it’s OK, you better know the person well enough to where they’ll take it as a joke. You don’t do that to someone you do not know, regardless of gender. I remember some shot Kevin spacey said about sleeping peoples asses on set and it was just a thing people did. Just creepy AF all around.
100% depends on how close you are to the person. Me personally, I would never slap someones ass after a roll never found the need to. But to each their own!
The more roids you take the more ass slapping urges you get. Dont look this up, its just TRUE!!!
just beeing a silly billy! maybe my gi was a little too tight so i was asking for it haha….
I think the redditor you are replying to was pointing out that the pat on the butt it is very common for men's sport in America. It has been for me since I was a kid up to now. It has never been a thing in any co-ed sport I've ever been involved in.
for sure i just have a dark sense of humour
Yeah this was very common in high school sports among males. I'll even admit that I engaged in it. The idea of a male slapping a female's ass is so fucked up though.
Not even remotely cool. Fuck that guy. Off is a trend sun this guy, being inappropriate, he needs to be removed or you should find another school. I'd speak to the other females and see what their experiences have been like with this guy.
You're way too sensitive lol. If you're a girl and he's a guy, fine. But besides that, chill out lol
Are you a girl? In my dojo my sensei for sure would ban this person who slapped you forever... Besides this is a crime...
Mmm. I don't really believe him. You spoke on it, and I'd let it go *for now* as long as he was spoken to about it, but keep your eye on him. If it happens again, knock the fuck out of him. If it really was a second natured butt smack, he'll have learned his lesson and consciously not do it again to you.
I have never experienced that my entire career. You should definitely tell, they should revoke his membership, and you should file a police report if you choose to take that route.
The people defending him by saying “he apologized, get over it” are wild… I am about as far as you can get from a feminist, but I don’t know any rational person who would feel comfortable slapping a woman they don’t know on the ass, post-roll or not. You were right originally when you sounded angry. Keep that up. He’s likely a predator if he felt that comfortable, and he was testing the boundaries.
Woahhhhhhhjjj uhhh- tell the prof
I did
Good! I’m sorry this happened to u
Slapping a woman’s ass is universally inappropriate in any setting. Men know this. White belt sounds like a socially underdeveloped idiot that needed the call out, but don’t throw your image into the fire by looking like you don’t have control over your own self. Treat him like a child, present yourself as a calm authority in the matter, and then let the child go back to his playtime. You overreact and people will just start avoiding you at your own gym. You’ll look like a drama magnet.
Where you training with Bryan Callen or Chris D'elia?
Make your boundaries known, enforce them if it happens again. Telling your professor was good, just hope that they watch out for this type of behavior.
Definitely set the boundary. If it isn’t respected going forward, they might not be the right gym for you.
i feel like this would be unfair. i’m the higher belt, i have represented the team successfully in comp for the last 3 years. he has been here no longer than a year
I’m not saying only him. I’m saying set the boundary, and make sure the folks running the gym are aware of it. If the white belt doesn’t respect it, don’t roll with him. If the gym doesn’t help you enforce it, then there’s a bigger issue.
When I first read this, I thought it was a male writing, and I thought no big deal. Then, when discovering op is a woman, that changes things. He probably didn't mean anything by it, but he can't ever do that again
Check his oil or else he won the round
Butt slaps in any sport are weird AF. Super inappropriate in this scenario. Dudes gotta go.
Talk to the coach if he does nothing file a police report. Might file a report anyways.
As a girl I would have never thought about filing a report… is this common? (Imagining if I was in OPs shoes) I only train with men and I wouldn’t even know how to go about doing that tbh.
For lack of better terms it kind is sexual assault.
i know its sexual harassment but what will a police report do?
A slap on the ass is assault at a minimum (unwanted touching), and possibly sexual assault (if there was any sexual motivation).
Paper trail/ documentation if nothing else.
Most definitely not okay. I’d file a report
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Are you on something or taking the piss? The guy reacted instinctively like we would with male friends. Was pulled up on it, not doubt feels embarrassed and apologized. What more do you want?
You’re telling me you’ve “instinctively” slapped girls on the ass before?
Me? No. Do I believe someone who does the same thing with his friends/team mates when he plays some other sport could do this.... Yep I can very easily believe this. Question for you. Are you telling me that there is so little chance this could be true that every comment on this thread saying it is very plausible is purposefully defending someone they believe intentionally committed an assault on?
There intent may not be to defend him, but they’re not giving it a real thought. I don’t know a single man in my life who would think it’s okay to slap a woman on the ass 😂 I mean seriously, think about it just for a second and tell me again if you think it’s a reasonable, instinctual, mistake.
Do you believe that someone could say something to another person they would find offensive and then immediately realise after they said it that they shouldn't have said that to the person and be apologetic? If you do then now can you not imagine that rather than words someone can perform an action without thinking and feel the same way after? Now I'm not saying this is what happened I have no idea who this guy is. However you asked me to think about it again.... Is it reasonable, no, never said it was. Do I believe it could be an instinctual mistake 100% yes
I get the point you’re making, and I think you’re approaching it fairly, but I just disagree. I’ve put my foot in my mouth more than once, words are a lot easier to mess up. It just doesn’t sit right with me that someone would think it’s ok to smack a girls ass… haha maybe it’s just me, but I feel like people are taught from a very young age, especially in this over sensitive world we live in, not to make women feel uncomfortable. Smacking a girls ass is about as uncomfortable as it gets if you don’t have a relationship with that girl where slapping the ass is ok, whatever type of relationship that is. I am plenty old, and pretty insensitive to most things, but when I read the post and the comments I was just shocked how many were saying she was over reacting. If that was my daughter, I would have told her to file a police report (not saying it would have gone anywhere, but it damn sure would document that dudes behavior). If that was my gym, they wouldn’t be a member anymore. Either way, I’m probably giving it too much thought. It doesn’t affect me. I enjoyed the conversation with you! I really do see your point, I just don’t buy that it’s a valid excuse. To me, it gives off predator vibes testing the boundaries of his next prey.
I might be taking a piss, that's just my take. Recently I have had my perspective shifted. I just don't see how this happens automatically.
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maybe my take is hot, me and the boys on the mat have done wild shit to each other. Never once have I done some crazy shit to a woman or have they done it to me. We all get freaky on the mat it tends to stay within the genders from what I have seen. That's just me, maybe I'm not for equality
You guys are wild not thinking that this wasn’t more than an “oops, sorry” situation. Have you EVER accidentally slapped a girl on the ass ever in your life?