And with the arena scams now the sprint center sorry TMobile Center is outdated too old no amenities by todays standards for any hockey or basketball team to ever move here. It’s what not even 20 yrs old. This is how the stadium grift works. In 15 yrs the new royals and chiefs renovated stadiums will be outdated and they will need another 2 billion in money for renovations or they will move.
It’s honestly such a great looking arena. there are so many newer arenas that look dated within less than 5 years of opening. the sprint center/t-mobile whatever tf it’s called still holds up. Sure the interior needs a refresh, but that’s par for the course with every sports venue at that age.
It makes too much money from concerts and other events today. If the Spirit Center had a team that was based there, they works have to black out so many days that they would be less profitable. Or so I’ve heard (with no backup data to support it).
That's not at all how stadiums work.
Yes, your concert revenue might decline (even then, normal arenas still host 30 to 50 concerts or other events besides their main tenent per year). But that's made up for in the rent paid by the tenent, more advertising revenue, and more sales tax revenue.
I mean...even 100% sober those escalators have you afraid for your life. And as you death grip the rubber rail it slowly pulls you backwards. Just saying.
And fixing that is worth paying 3/8 cents per dollar in sales tax for the next 40 years?
There's 1001 things our sales tax could go towards fixing before "pretty football stadium" makes the list. Especially with inflation being what it is.
Aside from the fact that this tax ONLY affects Jackson County, nobody else who goes to the games or other events at the stadium are sharing these costs at their homes.
That's part of why I go to Cass County or Clay County to buy certain things.
Cass County's sales tax is 0.5%, compared to 1.38% for Jackson County.
Funny I read this as I’m sitting in that arena. Even with the stuff they did to it when it became HyVee Arena, it still looks every bit of 50 years old.
No. I’m talking about the renovations in the 1990s, specifically the one in 1997. Then, the City built Sprint Center less than a decade later while we were still on the hook for those bonds.
After looking it up, I was wrong. The bonds for the $23M renovation in 1996/7 were twenty year, so we stopped paying for Kemper in 2016.
$90-$130 average ticket price and it would be 41 games for regular season. Any post season would be extra with the top limit of post season games being 16 I believe.
The fact rich neighborhoods are the only ones with the signs that say “vote yes to keep chiefs in Jackson county” is complete bullshit and very telling of their lack of knowledge and care. Chiefs won’t leave if this doesn’t pass lol…. Also stop stealing from the poor/middle class pls
To be fair, and I'm inclined to be fair, we didn't have the mountain of studies from economists demonstrating that these are bad deals and net negatives for their communities.
Even now, those of us who have looked into it only know how bad these deals are because we've looked into it. Many, many voters will base their decision on the ads with Kelcie and Mahomes talking it up.
Economists aside, the vote options at that time were:
1. Pay for renovations with a tax increase.
2. Pay for renovations with a tax increase and get the rolling roof from the original stadium design, a super bowl, an all star game, probably a final 4 and other events reserved for domed arenas for no additional tax increase with an increase in hotel, rental car, and performer service fees.
3. Renovate with no tax increase but an increase in hotel, rental car, and performer service fees.
Voters chose option...guess.
>The NFL pledged to award Kansas City a Super Bowl in 2015 if the measures passed, and Major League Baseball said it would give the city an All-Star Game sometime after 2010.
That's my favorite bit
We did get the All Star game in 2012.
I volunteered, and honestly had a great experience that week, even tho I was just unpaid labor.
That doesn't mean it was a good investment, but we did get the All Star weekend like they promised.
Honestly, kinda sucks for you. FanFest was pretty fun if you're into ball. Had some Cooperstown exhibits, NLBM showed up in a big way, lots of games and stuff for the kids.
I recognize MLB as an evil corporation, but I'll be damned if they don't put on a decent show to distract us from it lmao
I actually lived well outside of the metro from 2009 through 2016. So I was being a little disingenuous when I wrote I had "no idea" how I missed it. Because that probably had a ton to do with it.
The Super Bowl was contingent on the roof measure that failed. MLB had no position on the roof, just the renovation, and they lived up to their side of the bargain.
shame how MLB rewarded the vote with the All Star game in 2012 and how the roof didn't pass so the NFL didn't award KC the Super Bowl, guess we just have to pretend you aren't talking out of your ass somehow.
> guess we just have to pretend you aren't talking out of your ass somehow
If you can't find a way to interpret "That's my favorite bit" in some way that isn't "talking out of [my] ass", you may be able to find the problem with the help of a mirror.
I don’t think the original rolling roofs were for climate control as much as they were to keep out precipitation. There was talk the last time to revisit the rolling roofs and somehow drop heavy blanket type tarps to keep the extreme temps moderated. Imagine the Dolphin playoff game being in the 30s inside Arrowhead instead of the bitter cold
Voters voted "no" on that portion. It was added as the cookie to get voters to accept a turd sandwich tax increase and the voters decided that they preferred the turd straight, no chaser.
Please take the example presented with the St Louis Rams in St Louis. They were trying to add an additional tax to the county for more concessions for the stadium. The residents realized that they were still on the hook for the first set of taxes, and the football club was trying to pass an additional tax on them. Well we all know the results of that measure. I will be voting NO on the measure. You give them this, they will be coming back to get more.
This guy breaks down this sham really well. None of the stadium proposal is backed up with data, just false hopes and assumptive projections by the team.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=SbH9aCK0Lpbn3p8J&v=sC43OfBQNPY&feature=youtu.be
Right? If the teams had made solid proposals backed up with hard numbers and documented commitments I might have different opinion, but all the positives towards tax payers are vague and ephemeral and backed by a fear tactic of threatening to move the teams if Jackson County voters tell them "No".
That isn't a business negotiation, that's a hostage situation.
That's because the marketing/propaganda is spinning it that way. They want to make it seem final. The "skip negotiations, go nuclear" strategy is how they get everything they want since any discussion will show that they have no interest in the community.
“A new sports facility has an extremely small (perhaps even negative) effect on overall economic activity and employment. No recent facility appears to have earned anything approaching a reasonable return on investment. No recent facility has been self-financing in terms of its impact on net tax revenues.” - Brookings Institute
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/sports-jobs-taxes-are-new-stadiums-worth-the-cost/
I'm grateful the stadium discourse has moved away from "Save the Crossroads" to just talking about how bullshit the proposed tax is. No voters may have a chance if they just drill down people's heads how lame the deal is.
Dear Chiefs and Royals: I don't want to pay for your f\*cking stadium when my utility bills are wackadoo, property taxes have gone up, crime in this city is out of control, and the school system is a joke. Maybe if we were already luxuriating in lower gas and water bills, had our own versions of Meadowbrook Park and the Leawood Aquatic Center, amazing schools, visible police patrols on the roads to address the rampant red light running and speeding in this town, lower crime, etc. Then maybe, just maybe I wouldn't be so hecking mad about this stadium bullshit. Pay for it yourself you billionaire noobs!
Fuck them they can stay right where they are. Fuck Kansas if they want to give them $2 billion+ to move 30 minutes away to the benefit of only John Sherman and the Hunt family
i keep seeing nashville pop up, if the royals think the nashville market is more lucrative there, good luck to them lol
and then they ain’t getting s downtown stadium down there either so, i’d be very surprised to see them get what KC already consistently does in Nashville
I don't think anyone is actually going to leave. But I would feel irresponsible if I didn't at least acknowledge that it is a possibility even when I don't think it will happen.
I’m calling this now: this vote is designed to fail. After it does, I anticipate they “decide” that the east village is where they’ll build, but it’s going to cost more. Look for an actual tax increase or increase to the existing extension, to come with that.
I don’t have a dog in this fight. I live on the Kansas side and rarely spend money in Jackson county. I have said for years that I would love to have downtown baseball here, but you guys are being manipulated and this thing smells to high heaven like only half the facts are being presented to the public. If I voted in Missouri, it would be a no from me dawg.
did you know if they leave and go to KCK, Jackson County residents would still own Kauffman Stadium, would still have to maintain it, and would at some point still have to tear it down?
Amazing if you haven't heard that part either
The article buries the lede - the threat is 100% about Wyandotte County - not Portland or San Antonio.
The article gets there as an afterthought, long after hyperventilating about how owners won't let Clark invade their turf.
How is Wyandotte a threat? That's still "Kansas City" even if it isn't in KCMO city limits. The entire point of the article is that the KC market is ideal for the Chiefs, and they'd be stupid to leave the market over this vote. Wyco is the same market.
This after they DOUBLED our property taxes. Hell to the no. Greedy $65 parking, $25 beer m-f-ers. Why are rich folks always trying to take money from poor people?
Can someone explain how this all works?? Like the stadium would be paid for with public money and what the Royals pay rent? City gets concessions and the door? Or is that part of the deal that they don’t pay rent and KC gets the ancillary money that’s thrown off? If it’s tax money why the fuck is the team all like this is the stadium we want, btw it’s 2 bills. As I get older it sounds so stupid, they pick it out and we pay for it. Man I used to love baseball and this whole deal is really souring me on it. Pay for your own stadium. If you need more money put a decent product on the field.
Best part is reading all the comments by people that are fed up with this subject but insist on commenting and making each post that much more popular! Go team “I’m tired of this subject”
Did this dude seriously write an entire article about how the Chiefs can't move anywhere without realizing the place that they would move to is Kansas?
"At most, the franchise could try to find a sugar funding deal a few miles across the border in Kansas, still within KC’s metro area."
Wow. That's literally the point.
The point is that Jackson county voters won’t lose the chiefs, at worst they have to drive across the county line to watch games in person while letting Johnson Co foot the bill.
State line, but yeah.
I'm just saying. Writing a whole article about how the Chiefs are threatening to move to another city when they're really not is pretty freaking weak.
I am surprised how many people are upset it would move to KS, go to the game and let someone else pay. What do you think we have been doing for 50 years...
We can get back to the expired licence plate and complaining about the new airport post. If this passes look forward to 4 years of post complaining about construction road closures.
Seems like folks here in Kansas City just aren’t big fans of change.
With that being said, I also think the new airport is just fine and if I lived in Jackson County I would not vote to pay for 5/8 of a billionaire’s new stadium.
They could have done something amazing and unique. Instead, they built cookie cutter airport #75.
And why we don’t have a pedestrian bridge for arrivals is beyond me. They now have crossing guards out there to manage traffic and people. Meanwhile, every other modern airport has a bridge to allow arriving passengers to get across to a parking garage without having to impede traffic flow.
I have no issue with a new airport. But the design is a joke. And I have yet to see any of the promised new routes from airlines where they said MCI is going to become some massive hub.
Ok, I can’t argue with that, I guess my main concern was how much of a breeze it was getting through TSA at the old terminals and it was pretty quick when I was there a month ago. Also the new restaurants aren’t bad(not that an airport restaurant is ever gonna blow anyone away).
I miss that part of the efficiency of the old airport too, but I don't need all the bells and whistles in an airport. I want to use it to get from point A to point B in the least cumbersome/most efficient/most economical manner and that's honestly what we had before.
> cookie cutter airport #75
lmao what the fuck does this even mean?
I travel a lot for work and in the past 2 years have been to over a dozen major airports across the country and the new kci is a better travel experience than all of them. the old kci SUCKED ASS to depart from.
what are you looking for in an "amazing and unique" airport? because when i travel i'm looking for efficiency and convenience, which is what theyve done without making it feel like a hellish cattle run like ATL
Last guy I talked to who hated it was mad about 1/4 mile walk vs 100ft. So basic KC things where if you can't park directly outside of your destination, it's not worth it.
It was the absolute best airport if you lived in KC Metro and didn't get anxiety if you weren't at your gate more than 45 minutes from takeoff. It was super convenient.
For anyone else, it absolutely sucked ass.
no it doesn't, and lots of people are saying this post has a lot of new insight. i don't know what kind of metropolitan architect and civic genius you are but i've never seen a bunch of this stuff. i haven't built or analyzed a huge tax and public propaganda campaign like this. civic responsibility requires TONS of repetitive practice and learning and insight for the layperson.
That's how DUTY works.
everybody else can move on and continue to cynically leech off of the civic responsibilities of others. in quiet away from here.
Not to mention I’d be willing to take out a second mortgage and gamble that this is not even close to the worst attempt to extort a city for new facilities.
No it's not lol this vote happens every 10-12 years, it's by no stretch an important one. Wanna know an important vote? Governor, Senators and Representatives. Wish you guys voted in that area as hard as you will on this vote..
Honestly local elections matter as well. Not talking about this matter just like county commissioners, city council members. Local people who make differences good or bad in the community.
Yeah extending a tax that 9/10 people didn’t even know was in place before this even started is hardly important. The truth of the matter is Jackson county always votes to pass these types of measures (airport, street car, they even passed the rolling roof add-on when they was voted on) and this will be no different.
This isn't a vote to move the stadium, it's a vote for the sales tax. There will be years of wrangling with business owners and building owners before the stadium can go in at the crossroads and by that time the plan could change.
Yeah and if it fails, the royals have said they would leave the area entirely. So it kind of is that, even though the vote is just for a tax increase (yes it’s phrased as an “extension” but it’s additional taxes. It’s an increase)
I haven’t heard a from the Royals about leaving if the vote fails, I have heard other people say they’d move. John Sherman has always said he wants to keep baseball in KC
Mark Donovan on the other hand has said that the Chiefs would need to explore other options if the vote fails.
Well then we should definitely vote no, what does this get us other than less money? Hell keep the team in KC, that’s been the main concern with rejecting the tax.
No it's not an additional tax, it's a 3/8 cent tax that replaces the current one. The change is that the tax can be used outside of the Truman Sports Complex whereas the current one is only good for Truman Sports Complex.
It is a new tax. JaCo voters originally voted in good faith for the current tax with a legal, stated sundown date. Not a forever tax. This vote is on a new tax of the same amount for a different term.
BTW, I was going to sit this vote out as an undecided. But when I learned the teams had hired GOP vote rat-fu\*\*er, Jeff Roe, to manage the pro-tax campaign that cinched it. NO.
Agreed. Ask yourself a simple question. Does the Royals or the Chiefs get you closer to accomplishing your goals? I can't afford a house in the North part of Lock Loyd in 3 lifetimes. The chiefs and the royals can move to Mars for all I care. Imagine where our society would be if we valued intelligence and education over athletics. Cancer probably would be a word by now.
The team would move across the border to Kansas, possibly near The Legends. This article (and many others like it) seem to think that the chiefs would move all the way to Sacramento or something, which is just silly.
Gov Kelly has voiced support for this move in the past, and the Hunt family obviously see the tax benefits of such a move as more beneficial than staying. They’d still be called the KC Chiefs.
> Gov Kelly has voiced support for this move in the past
Fuck her and any other Kansas politicians trying to give billions of tax dollars to 2 billionaire families in order to get them to move 10 miles away for the gain of nothing to their own residents.
Kansas acting like they will give the money if Jackson County won't is a huge reason why we are held over the barrel on this one. It's only to the detriment of both sides of the state line - Kansas won't gain shit from doing this.
How about neither of us do this.
>They’d still be called the KC Chiefs
I fully support a level of petty of the city legally trying to block them from using Kansas City or KC.
You moved, Chiefs. You chose to leave KC for a few bucks so you don't get to use the name.
That doesn't make it much better. If the team ever decides to leave, the taxpayers will inherit a liability with the owners not having any risk. There isn't many potential buyers for an NFL stadium.
Look at St Louis. Last I heard the taxpayers were still paying on the Rams stadium.
Hello, STL person that lurks in The KC reddit checking in...
The dome deal suuuuuuuuuucks, and public money is almost never justified for this crap.
We voted against the first version of CityPark that would have been publicly funded, thankfully got an ownership group that paid for it themselves.
I hope for your guys' sake whatever happens doesn't include a move out to Legends.
Right. So the city gets stuck with a massive liability if the team decides to leave.
And the Crossroads gets ruined and is never the same, regardless of who owns the stadium.
And there is never any property tax revenue on the dammed thing because the team owners have skirted around that tax liability by "letting" the city own it. Gee, so generous of them (lol).
How is that better?
Meaning no property taxes on all of that valuable urban land will get paid anymore.
Edit: of course referring to the baseball side of this bad proposition.
I wouldn't say it's the worst attempt but I'm surprised at how one-sided the terms are and that Jackson County voters haven't insisted on a retractable roof to bring more events - NCAA Tournament, Superbowl, Concerts etc during the three months each year when it's bringing in nothing.
Our school district here in KCMO is considering a bond and/or tax levy due to not being funded enough. But we need to fund a stadium. I’d rather move that tax to my school district if I’m going to continue to pay a tax.
I stopped attending sports functions years ago when my state did the same nonsense. I've done my part with little to no effect, but it's a numbers game, in time I can only hope enough people just tell them to move already and use the tax dollars for something useful for once.
" The Chiefs hope that voters will OK a 40-year extension of a three-eighths-of-a-cent sales tax in Jackson County, one that costs a resident 38 cents per every $100 they spend in the county. According to the Kansas City Star, taxpayers [are still paying back](https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article286231855.html) hundreds of millions of dollars from the *last* time Kansas City’s football and baseball stadiums were renovated. "
The linked story, KCStar-
The proposed Jackson County sales tax would go toward a loan the county would take out to build the new stadium, and would also go toward paying off the remaining $200 million the county still owes from the last round of Kauffman and Arrowhead renovations in 2006 that the existing tax is paying back.
Read more at: [https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article286231855.html#storylink=cpy](https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article286231855.html#storylink=cpy)
Why would Slate purposely make it sound like that, are they acting in bad faith?
But. Early voting started yesterday, and is, as far as i know, not at union station. Is by the sunfresh on blue parkway. According to my moms is kinda hard to find, but there is no line as it is stupid hard to find.
There’s literally nowhere this franchise can go and be as profitable as it is now - with one of the (players-voted) worst owners in the league.
The royals? Eh.
I'd like to propose that billionaires shouldn't get handouts. If they need the sales tax, then the tax payers should get a portion of the team ownership and a real guarantee that the teams will NEVER move.
I feel sorry for all my Royal bros, im so sick of this shit. These greepy pigs who bring in so much money by selling overpriced tickets and everything else to people in a community, expecting those same people to build you a new fucking stadium so you can show your friends. these people are trash
The worst was when the penguins pretended like they were seriously considering moving to KC to get a new arena in Pittsburgh.
And with the arena scams now the sprint center sorry TMobile Center is outdated too old no amenities by todays standards for any hockey or basketball team to ever move here. It’s what not even 20 yrs old. This is how the stadium grift works. In 15 yrs the new royals and chiefs renovated stadiums will be outdated and they will need another 2 billion in money for renovations or they will move.
It isn't outdated, it just isn't cool to impress their other billionaire buddies with
It’s honestly such a great looking arena. there are so many newer arenas that look dated within less than 5 years of opening. the sprint center/t-mobile whatever tf it’s called still holds up. Sure the interior needs a refresh, but that’s par for the course with every sports venue at that age.
Just so you know, Kauffman is 51 years old and Arrowhead is 52 years old.
It makes too much money from concerts and other events today. If the Spirit Center had a team that was based there, they works have to black out so many days that they would be less profitable. Or so I’ve heard (with no backup data to support it).
That's not at all how stadiums work. Yes, your concert revenue might decline (even then, normal arenas still host 30 to 50 concerts or other events besides their main tenent per year). But that's made up for in the rent paid by the tenent, more advertising revenue, and more sales tax revenue.
I mean...even 100% sober those escalators have you afraid for your life. And as you death grip the rubber rail it slowly pulls you backwards. Just saying.
And fixing that is worth paying 3/8 cents per dollar in sales tax for the next 40 years? There's 1001 things our sales tax could go towards fixing before "pretty football stadium" makes the list. Especially with inflation being what it is. Aside from the fact that this tax ONLY affects Jackson County, nobody else who goes to the games or other events at the stadium are sharing these costs at their homes. That's part of why I go to Cass County or Clay County to buy certain things. Cass County's sales tax is 0.5%, compared to 1.38% for Jackson County.
I believe we’re still paying for the Kemper Arena renovations…
Funny I read this as I’m sitting in that arena. Even with the stuff they did to it when it became HyVee Arena, it still looks every bit of 50 years old.
The recent ones that added a second deck? Where are you getting that notion from?
No. I’m talking about the renovations in the 1990s, specifically the one in 1997. Then, the City built Sprint Center less than a decade later while we were still on the hook for those bonds. After looking it up, I was wrong. The bonds for the $23M renovation in 1996/7 were twenty year, so we stopped paying for Kemper in 2016.
Thank you for the additional info and follow up
We should still try to get an NHL team
What are the average ticket prices for an NHL team? How many people would pay that 30 times or so in a season?
$90-$130 average ticket price and it would be 41 games for regular season. Any post season would be extra with the top limit of post season games being 16 I believe.
I suggest everyone give me $0.38 for every $100 they spend. At least I won't shut down small businesses and a major thoroughfare.
The fact rich neighborhoods are the only ones with the signs that say “vote yes to keep chiefs in Jackson county” is complete bullshit and very telling of their lack of knowledge and care. Chiefs won’t leave if this doesn’t pass lol…. Also stop stealing from the poor/middle class pls
I just noticed this yesterday driving down Ward Parkway!! Huge signs to vote yes!!
Worst attempt… SINCE THE LAST TIME WHEN IT ACTUALLY WORKED
I tell that story as an example of the most obvious bad decision I've ever seen a voter base make in my entire life.
To be fair, and I'm inclined to be fair, we didn't have the mountain of studies from economists demonstrating that these are bad deals and net negatives for their communities. Even now, those of us who have looked into it only know how bad these deals are because we've looked into it. Many, many voters will base their decision on the ads with Kelcie and Mahomes talking it up.
Economists aside, the vote options at that time were: 1. Pay for renovations with a tax increase. 2. Pay for renovations with a tax increase and get the rolling roof from the original stadium design, a super bowl, an all star game, probably a final 4 and other events reserved for domed arenas for no additional tax increase with an increase in hotel, rental car, and performer service fees. 3. Renovate with no tax increase but an increase in hotel, rental car, and performer service fees. Voters chose option...guess.
Was there no, "tell them to fuck off" option?
Fair point. I omitted option 4.
I wasn't trying to make a point; I legit forgot. And I would be very surprised if 3 "Yes" options could beat "No" today.
“The most obvious bad decision I’ve ever seen a voter base make in my entire life” Fuckin 2016 would like a word.
Donald Trump: hold my beer
Some classic reading https://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=2397148
>The NFL pledged to award Kansas City a Super Bowl in 2015 if the measures passed, and Major League Baseball said it would give the city an All-Star Game sometime after 2010. That's my favorite bit
We did get the All Star game in 2012. I volunteered, and honestly had a great experience that week, even tho I was just unpaid labor. That doesn't mean it was a good investment, but we did get the All Star weekend like they promised.
> We did get the All Star game in 2012. Wow. No idea how I missed that. Thanks for the correction.
Honestly, kinda sucks for you. FanFest was pretty fun if you're into ball. Had some Cooperstown exhibits, NLBM showed up in a big way, lots of games and stuff for the kids. I recognize MLB as an evil corporation, but I'll be damned if they don't put on a decent show to distract us from it lmao
I actually lived well outside of the metro from 2009 through 2016. So I was being a little disingenuous when I wrote I had "no idea" how I missed it. Because that probably had a ton to do with it.
Lmao fair. And just to be clear, I'm also a hard no here
The Super Bowl was contingent on the roof measure that failed. MLB had no position on the roof, just the renovation, and they lived up to their side of the bargain.
shame how MLB rewarded the vote with the All Star game in 2012 and how the roof didn't pass so the NFL didn't award KC the Super Bowl, guess we just have to pretend you aren't talking out of your ass somehow.
> guess we just have to pretend you aren't talking out of your ass somehow If you can't find a way to interpret "That's my favorite bit" in some way that isn't "talking out of [my] ass", you may be able to find the problem with the help of a mirror.
Where are these rolling roofs to make both stadiums climate controlled?
I don’t think the original rolling roofs were for climate control as much as they were to keep out precipitation. There was talk the last time to revisit the rolling roofs and somehow drop heavy blanket type tarps to keep the extreme temps moderated. Imagine the Dolphin playoff game being in the 30s inside Arrowhead instead of the bitter cold
Voters voted "no" on that portion. It was added as the cookie to get voters to accept a turd sandwich tax increase and the voters decided that they preferred the turd straight, no chaser.
Please take the example presented with the St Louis Rams in St Louis. They were trying to add an additional tax to the county for more concessions for the stadium. The residents realized that they were still on the hook for the first set of taxes, and the football club was trying to pass an additional tax on them. Well we all know the results of that measure. I will be voting NO on the measure. You give them this, they will be coming back to get more.
This guy breaks down this sham really well. None of the stadium proposal is backed up with data, just false hopes and assumptive projections by the team. https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=SbH9aCK0Lpbn3p8J&v=sC43OfBQNPY&feature=youtu.be
Right? If the teams had made solid proposals backed up with hard numbers and documented commitments I might have different opinion, but all the positives towards tax payers are vague and ephemeral and backed by a fear tactic of threatening to move the teams if Jackson County voters tell them "No". That isn't a business negotiation, that's a hostage situation.
This is such a good resource and it needs to be shared more.
Yeah more people need to see this
Wow and they included the cites. Nice work!
Yeah it's a thorough breakdown. More people need to see it. Lots of misinformation and fear campaign going hard in my thread where I shared this video
Has everyone forgotten the first rule of negotiation is to never accept the first offer?
I have been saying the EXACT same thing. There is no reason to take the first offer. Hell what is the offer an "activation zone"?
Thank you. Everyone acting like this is the end.
That's because the marketing/propaganda is spinning it that way. They want to make it seem final. The "skip negotiations, go nuclear" strategy is how they get everything they want since any discussion will show that they have no interest in the community.
Hunt is also saying more or less in interviews that this is his best and final offer. Dude apparently doesn't know how to negotiate.
Every time Frank White says this they call him obstructionist.
Somebody’s going to end up with a pile of money and it’s not Jackson County residents.
“A new sports facility has an extremely small (perhaps even negative) effect on overall economic activity and employment. No recent facility appears to have earned anything approaching a reasonable return on investment. No recent facility has been self-financing in terms of its impact on net tax revenues.” - Brookings Institute https://www.brookings.edu/articles/sports-jobs-taxes-are-new-stadiums-worth-the-cost/
I'm grateful the stadium discourse has moved away from "Save the Crossroads" to just talking about how bullshit the proposed tax is. No voters may have a chance if they just drill down people's heads how lame the deal is.
Dear Chiefs and Royals: I don't want to pay for your f\*cking stadium when my utility bills are wackadoo, property taxes have gone up, crime in this city is out of control, and the school system is a joke. Maybe if we were already luxuriating in lower gas and water bills, had our own versions of Meadowbrook Park and the Leawood Aquatic Center, amazing schools, visible police patrols on the roads to address the rampant red light running and speeding in this town, lower crime, etc. Then maybe, just maybe I wouldn't be so hecking mad about this stadium bullshit. Pay for it yourself you billionaire noobs!
Why do we have to pay for billionaires to make money again?
Privatizing gains and publicizing costs and losses is the American way! What are you, some kind of COMMUNIST!?
Fuck em, go to Legends area
Nope. Don’t fuck up my neighborhood!!!!!
Fuck them they can stay right where they are. Fuck Kansas if they want to give them $2 billion+ to move 30 minutes away to the benefit of only John Sherman and the Hunt family
Or Nashville. I don't care so long as we aren't taking from the poor to give to the rich
At least if they go to Nashville we may be able to watch them on TV
i keep seeing nashville pop up, if the royals think the nashville market is more lucrative there, good luck to them lol and then they ain’t getting s downtown stadium down there either so, i’d be very surprised to see them get what KC already consistently does in Nashville
I don't think anyone is actually going to leave. But I would feel irresponsible if I didn't at least acknowledge that it is a possibility even when I don't think it will happen.
Albuquerque Chiefs, let's fucking gooooooooo!
They'd need a billion dollars a year just for security in that nightmare of a city.
I’m calling this now: this vote is designed to fail. After it does, I anticipate they “decide” that the east village is where they’ll build, but it’s going to cost more. Look for an actual tax increase or increase to the existing extension, to come with that. I don’t have a dog in this fight. I live on the Kansas side and rarely spend money in Jackson county. I have said for years that I would love to have downtown baseball here, but you guys are being manipulated and this thing smells to high heaven like only half the facts are being presented to the public. If I voted in Missouri, it would be a no from me dawg.
The vote isn't tied to any location. It's just money for some type of move and/or upgrades. They can take the money and decide to upgrade Kauffman.
You’re the first I’ve seen mention this.
did you know if they leave and go to KCK, Jackson County residents would still own Kauffman Stadium, would still have to maintain it, and would at some point still have to tear it down? Amazing if you haven't heard that part either
So? what does that mean?
The stadiums will be paid off by 2031. Demolishing them will cost a pittance compared to building a new stadium.
When do we get to vote on the location?
We don't. We give them money and hope.
I might be persuadable but I don't like the location they are currently proposing.
RemindMe! 2 weeks
I’ve been saying this from the beginning. Crossroads is just a ploy to rile everyone up and actually pass the tax for east village.
This sounds like the Rocky handshakev meme. Tax hating reds uniting with billionaire hating blues. I hope it doesn't pass
The article buries the lede - the threat is 100% about Wyandotte County - not Portland or San Antonio. The article gets there as an afterthought, long after hyperventilating about how owners won't let Clark invade their turf.
How is Wyandotte a threat? That's still "Kansas City" even if it isn't in KCMO city limits. The entire point of the article is that the KC market is ideal for the Chiefs, and they'd be stupid to leave the market over this vote. Wyco is the same market.
This after they DOUBLED our property taxes. Hell to the no. Greedy $65 parking, $25 beer m-f-ers. Why are rich folks always trying to take money from poor people?
Can someone explain how this all works?? Like the stadium would be paid for with public money and what the Royals pay rent? City gets concessions and the door? Or is that part of the deal that they don’t pay rent and KC gets the ancillary money that’s thrown off? If it’s tax money why the fuck is the team all like this is the stadium we want, btw it’s 2 bills. As I get older it sounds so stupid, they pick it out and we pay for it. Man I used to love baseball and this whole deal is really souring me on it. Pay for your own stadium. If you need more money put a decent product on the field.
After this next season it will be all down hill. Let them leave if this is how they award decades of fan loyalty.
Why after this next season?
What goes up, must come down.
Vote NO !
Best part is reading all the comments by people that are fed up with this subject but insist on commenting and making each post that much more popular! Go team “I’m tired of this subject”
Did this dude seriously write an entire article about how the Chiefs can't move anywhere without realizing the place that they would move to is Kansas? "At most, the franchise could try to find a sugar funding deal a few miles across the border in Kansas, still within KC’s metro area." Wow. That's literally the point.
The point is that Jackson county voters won’t lose the chiefs, at worst they have to drive across the county line to watch games in person while letting Johnson Co foot the bill.
State line, but yeah. I'm just saying. Writing a whole article about how the Chiefs are threatening to move to another city when they're really not is pretty freaking weak.
I thought that too. The article hardly mentions the Royals, but aren't the Royals the ones kinda driving this?
I am surprised how many people are upset it would move to KS, go to the game and let someone else pay. What do you think we have been doing for 50 years...
This sub is obsessed with this vote. I can't wait for it to be over with so we can move on to another local topic.
We can get back to the expired licence plate and complaining about the new airport post. If this passes look forward to 4 years of post complaining about construction road closures.
Who has the best burnt ends?
What are people hating about the new airport? It’s fine, I was there last month.
Seems like folks here in Kansas City just aren’t big fans of change. With that being said, I also think the new airport is just fine and if I lived in Jackson County I would not vote to pay for 5/8 of a billionaire’s new stadium.
They could have done something amazing and unique. Instead, they built cookie cutter airport #75. And why we don’t have a pedestrian bridge for arrivals is beyond me. They now have crossing guards out there to manage traffic and people. Meanwhile, every other modern airport has a bridge to allow arriving passengers to get across to a parking garage without having to impede traffic flow. I have no issue with a new airport. But the design is a joke. And I have yet to see any of the promised new routes from airlines where they said MCI is going to become some massive hub.
Ok, I can’t argue with that, I guess my main concern was how much of a breeze it was getting through TSA at the old terminals and it was pretty quick when I was there a month ago. Also the new restaurants aren’t bad(not that an airport restaurant is ever gonna blow anyone away).
I miss that part of the efficiency of the old airport too, but I don't need all the bells and whistles in an airport. I want to use it to get from point A to point B in the least cumbersome/most efficient/most economical manner and that's honestly what we had before.
> cookie cutter airport #75 lmao what the fuck does this even mean? I travel a lot for work and in the past 2 years have been to over a dozen major airports across the country and the new kci is a better travel experience than all of them. the old kci SUCKED ASS to depart from. what are you looking for in an "amazing and unique" airport? because when i travel i'm looking for efficiency and convenience, which is what theyve done without making it feel like a hellish cattle run like ATL
Last guy I talked to who hated it was mad about 1/4 mile walk vs 100ft. So basic KC things where if you can't park directly outside of your destination, it's not worth it.
It was the absolute best airport if you lived in KC Metro and didn't get anxiety if you weren't at your gate more than 45 minutes from takeoff. It was super convenient. For anyone else, it absolutely sucked ass.
The new bathrooms are gender neutral! Ahhhhhhh!!!
Oh my look what you started!
I didn’t mean to, the terminal isn’t the most amazing thing ever but it’s not that bad 🤷♂️
Or the inevitable failed attempt at a lawsuit against the city, county, teams Can’t wait for that shit show
Yeah I miss people complaining about drivers and traffic. 😂
You like WHAT bbq joint?! FUCK YOU!
I agree, and every post ends up with the same exact comments as the post before it. It’s turned into quite the echo chamber.
no it doesn't, and lots of people are saying this post has a lot of new insight. i don't know what kind of metropolitan architect and civic genius you are but i've never seen a bunch of this stuff. i haven't built or analyzed a huge tax and public propaganda campaign like this. civic responsibility requires TONS of repetitive practice and learning and insight for the layperson. That's how DUTY works. everybody else can move on and continue to cynically leech off of the civic responsibilities of others. in quiet away from here.
Not to mention I’d be willing to take out a second mortgage and gamble that this is not even close to the worst attempt to extort a city for new facilities.
It’s not even the worst attempt currently occurring. Just look at the As lol
... chamber.
… chamber
... chambe
… chamb
... cham
Tbh we don't have a whole lot else going on
its an important vote...
No it's not lol this vote happens every 10-12 years, it's by no stretch an important one. Wanna know an important vote? Governor, Senators and Representatives. Wish you guys voted in that area as hard as you will on this vote..
Honestly local elections matter as well. Not talking about this matter just like county commissioners, city council members. Local people who make differences good or bad in the community.
Let's simplify that: EVERY election/vote matters. Every single one.
Our KC representatives aren’t really the problem.
Yeah extending a tax that 9/10 people didn’t even know was in place before this even started is hardly important. The truth of the matter is Jackson county always votes to pass these types of measures (airport, street car, they even passed the rolling roof add-on when they was voted on) and this will be no different.
No, they didn't pass the rolling roof. If they had, the Truman Sports Complex would have it.
moving the royals stadium to crossroads with taxpayer money has never been a vote before.
This isn't a vote to move the stadium, it's a vote for the sales tax. There will be years of wrangling with business owners and building owners before the stadium can go in at the crossroads and by that time the plan could change.
Yeah and if it fails, the royals have said they would leave the area entirely. So it kind of is that, even though the vote is just for a tax increase (yes it’s phrased as an “extension” but it’s additional taxes. It’s an increase)
I haven’t heard a from the Royals about leaving if the vote fails, I have heard other people say they’d move. John Sherman has always said he wants to keep baseball in KC Mark Donovan on the other hand has said that the Chiefs would need to explore other options if the vote fails.
Well then we should definitely vote no, what does this get us other than less money? Hell keep the team in KC, that’s been the main concern with rejecting the tax.
Moving would be over to Kansas, which that state's government and people will happily pay for just to have the ability to say they got a team.
No it's not an additional tax, it's a 3/8 cent tax that replaces the current one. The change is that the tax can be used outside of the Truman Sports Complex whereas the current one is only good for Truman Sports Complex.
It is a new tax. JaCo voters originally voted in good faith for the current tax with a legal, stated sundown date. Not a forever tax. This vote is on a new tax of the same amount for a different term. BTW, I was going to sit this vote out as an undecided. But when I learned the teams had hired GOP vote rat-fu\*\*er, Jeff Roe, to manage the pro-tax campaign that cinched it. NO.
It's starting to feel a little inorganic.
I'd much rather go back to talking about the restaurant that shall not be named.
Yeah screw these people engaging in the biggest local political issue instead of just shooting the breeze again
WTF I had no idea there weren't absolutely more important things coming up with this election season!!!
How you voting dude19832?
Platte County resident, so I can't.
it's very easy to ignore reddit post. just read the headline and move on.
Where can I get the best KC bbq?
Agreed. Ask yourself a simple question. Does the Royals or the Chiefs get you closer to accomplishing your goals? I can't afford a house in the North part of Lock Loyd in 3 lifetimes. The chiefs and the royals can move to Mars for all I care. Imagine where our society would be if we valued intelligence and education over athletics. Cancer probably would be a word by now.
The team would move across the border to Kansas, possibly near The Legends. This article (and many others like it) seem to think that the chiefs would move all the way to Sacramento or something, which is just silly. Gov Kelly has voiced support for this move in the past, and the Hunt family obviously see the tax benefits of such a move as more beneficial than staying. They’d still be called the KC Chiefs.
> Gov Kelly has voiced support for this move in the past Fuck her and any other Kansas politicians trying to give billions of tax dollars to 2 billionaire families in order to get them to move 10 miles away for the gain of nothing to their own residents. Kansas acting like they will give the money if Jackson County won't is a huge reason why we are held over the barrel on this one. It's only to the detriment of both sides of the state line - Kansas won't gain shit from doing this. How about neither of us do this.
>They’d still be called the KC Chiefs I fully support a level of petty of the city legally trying to block them from using Kansas City or KC. You moved, Chiefs. You chose to leave KC for a few bucks so you don't get to use the name.
Wait til everyone realizes that the stadium isn't owned by the team owners but the city and taxpayers..
That doesn't make it much better. If the team ever decides to leave, the taxpayers will inherit a liability with the owners not having any risk. There isn't many potential buyers for an NFL stadium. Look at St Louis. Last I heard the taxpayers were still paying on the Rams stadium.
Hello, STL person that lurks in The KC reddit checking in... The dome deal suuuuuuuuuucks, and public money is almost never justified for this crap. We voted against the first version of CityPark that would have been publicly funded, thankfully got an ownership group that paid for it themselves. I hope for your guys' sake whatever happens doesn't include a move out to Legends.
Wait until they realize the Hunt fam could write a check today and cover all this and still be rich AF.
Yep. The city and the taxpayers are the ones left holding the bag for the bad investment that is the stadium
Right. So the city gets stuck with a massive liability if the team decides to leave. And the Crossroads gets ruined and is never the same, regardless of who owns the stadium. And there is never any property tax revenue on the dammed thing because the team owners have skirted around that tax liability by "letting" the city own it. Gee, so generous of them (lol). How is that better?
Meaning no property taxes on all of that valuable urban land will get paid anymore. Edit: of course referring to the baseball side of this bad proposition.
Actually, glad to see so much debate on social media. This is a game changer vote no nothing come back with a better plan.
I wouldn't say it's the worst attempt but I'm surprised at how one-sided the terms are and that Jackson County voters haven't insisted on a retractable roof to bring more events - NCAA Tournament, Superbowl, Concerts etc during the three months each year when it's bringing in nothing.
Our school district here in KCMO is considering a bond and/or tax levy due to not being funded enough. But we need to fund a stadium. I’d rather move that tax to my school district if I’m going to continue to pay a tax.
See the St Louis Rams as the end game of this example. Fuck Kroenke and fuck the nfl as a whole
I stopped attending sports functions years ago when my state did the same nonsense. I've done my part with little to no effect, but it's a numbers game, in time I can only hope enough people just tell them to move already and use the tax dollars for something useful for once.
" The Chiefs hope that voters will OK a 40-year extension of a three-eighths-of-a-cent sales tax in Jackson County, one that costs a resident 38 cents per every $100 they spend in the county. According to the Kansas City Star, taxpayers [are still paying back](https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article286231855.html) hundreds of millions of dollars from the *last* time Kansas City’s football and baseball stadiums were renovated. " The linked story, KCStar- The proposed Jackson County sales tax would go toward a loan the county would take out to build the new stadium, and would also go toward paying off the remaining $200 million the county still owes from the last round of Kauffman and Arrowhead renovations in 2006 that the existing tax is paying back. Read more at: [https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article286231855.html#storylink=cpy](https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article286231855.html#storylink=cpy) Why would Slate purposely make it sound like that, are they acting in bad faith?
Sure sounds like slate got it right
Why is that bad faith? They are accurately stating that the previous loan is still being paid off. It is a factual statement.
I hope it, and the Royals tax both fail.
Portland is a no go, we'd never approve public funding.
It's not about the arena. He wants the hotel and conference center downtown. Those make money all year
Amen, brother. It's a solid no from me.
I thought this was a bigger push by the Royals.
But. Early voting started yesterday, and is, as far as i know, not at union station. Is by the sunfresh on blue parkway. According to my moms is kinda hard to find, but there is no line as it is stupid hard to find.
My bad!
Oh… well lemme tell you about a little town named Cleveland, Ohio sometime
Dramatic much?
STL was screwed by the NFL twice with this kind of BS. If billionaires want new houses for the ventures, let them pay for it themselves.
Buck Fillionaires!!!
This is why I won’t feel bad when someone builds a giant blender and every week we’ll pick one billionaire asshole and turn them into a smoothie.
They should take their toy and relocate to Wichita if they lose. That’ll show em.
Utah's new NHL and MLB checking in to see if we can get some advice in sticking it to people.
There’s literally nowhere this franchise can go and be as profitable as it is now - with one of the (players-voted) worst owners in the league. The royals? Eh.
I'd like to propose that billionaires shouldn't get handouts. If they need the sales tax, then the tax payers should get a portion of the team ownership and a real guarantee that the teams will NEVER move.
I feel sorry for all my Royal bros, im so sick of this shit. These greepy pigs who bring in so much money by selling overpriced tickets and everything else to people in a community, expecting those same people to build you a new fucking stadium so you can show your friends. these people are trash