Go to a later ward, if you need to. Your regular ward will get a new meeting time on January 1, right? So less than 6 months until then.
Try to go to your regular ward. But it sounds like that hasn't worked. So do what is best for you and your family.
People before policy.
Best wishes to you. Your efforts are a great example to your kids.
My wife has horrible migraines and horrible sleep. We've only been to our 9am ward a couple times this year. We go when she can which usually means the ward starting at 12.
I have sleep problems as well, which makes it incredibly hard to get up early for my 9 a.m. I wish I had a good solution for you, but if nothing else, I can relate. I just usually have to get a long nap after church, which isn't the perfect solution but it does help. Best of luck finding the answer, I'd go to the Lord about it and see what he says. Also talk to your bishop and explain the situation, see if they have any advice. Best of luck!
My wife and I have the same issue, mainly because I work a night shift until either 1230 or 130am, depending on work load. I'm the one working but my wife stays up until I get home so we can go to bed together and be on the same schedule. Our solution is to have Church at home later in the day after we have slept in. I can bless the sacrament and we usually watch some General Conference recordings and cover the SS lesson. We still miss meeting with other Church members in our ward but my wife and I still count as 2 who meet wherever we are to worship together and we can feel the Spirit with us so it's still pretty good. You and others can do the same or as well as you can.
Just a note though. You can only bless the sacrament at home with approval from your Bishop. Just doing it at home for convenience isn’t valid sacrament.
Not saying that’s what you’re doing because I don’t know what permission you have. Just for anyone that wants to do the same.
10 - 12 am is the true and living church start time!
But as for advice, just go for the 2nd hour and stay for sacrament of the next ward that probably starts after.
Do you have a later ward in the building? If so, on days you can't do the early meeting, go to your wards second hour and stay for the other ward's sacrament meeting.
I would consider going to my regular meeting (so my kids had the consistency of their friends) even if I knew I was going to sleep through the meeting.
Does your 12 know that most members have doubts about this or that commandment, teaching, their ability or willingness to live the gospel, and a whole host of things? And they attend church anyway because that is just part of our mortal journey. That no one has to believe everything to be a needed and important part of the congregation. Also get him "Believing Christ" by Stephen Robinson in audiobook if it is available that way or read it to him. He really needs to know that his own personal best, plus quick repentance of actual sin is always enough to make him perfect in Christ through the atonement. And that no matter how much trouble he is having with anything, They know him and love him and believe in his ability to become like them.
I would also get him involved in regular community service that family can do together and he can also independently do. Purpose and making a difference helps teens get out of their own heads in ways that can help them recognize their own capability and worth, despite whatever makes them fear they arent.......?
> Do you have a later ward in the building? If so, on days you can't do the early meeting, go to your wards second hour and stay for the other ward's sacrament meeting.
We've done this numerous times
I really like the idea of attending the second meeting of my award and then going to sacrament meeting of the ward right after us. I'm not sure but they might overlap I'll have to check.
As far as my 12-year-old goes, I've tried to talk to him about how he feels and what he believes at this point, but he hasn't really opened up to me about it. I try My best to keep the lines of communication open. Right now I feel like he just really isn't sure what he believes. I understand that many people in the congregation have differing levels of doubts just like he does, but I think he feels that if he has doubts he doesn't belong there. He is very against anything that is church right now. Possibly part of the problem is that my ex is no longer in the church and so he gets a different message with her.
It's gut-wrenching as a parent to watch a child go through this. At 14, mine had a similar rebelling. She was suddenly completely shut off and anti-religion. The mention of any gospel subject caused writhing like I'd thrown holy water on a vampire. We sat and had a heart to heart. I told her she had the agency to believe whatever she wanted and that I didn't want to force participation in things she didn't believe in. I explained that my faith was core to who I was as a person and that if she would like to understand me better as a person and have a deeper, more meaningful relationship with me, it would help to learn the gospel at least on an intellectual level. I offered to do the same for whatever she was identifying with in return. She agreed that she would come to church with the family on Sunday without the pressure of having to participate in sacrament, prayer, giving talks or lessons, etc. She was just there to learn who I was. (It helps that we have several non-member husbands that attend our ward because they love their wives and just want to be supportive and involved in things that are meaningful to them; I used them as examples). My daughter is about to turn 18 now. She still struggles with what she believes, but she is very open to religious discussion and enjoys friends she has made in the ward. She will participate in family prayer and has even asked about "come follow me" when we're behind.
Takeaway: First, all of this was 100% inspired by the Spirit. This may not work for your child, but the Lord knows what will. Covenant keeping puts us parents in a position to lift our families with God's help. Second, our kids have agency. We can do everything right and still have them walk away. I feel like i can understand the appeal of Lucifers' plan and why so many fell from their first estate. All we can do is try our best, so their blood is not on our hands.
Both, I was at a loss and really didn't know what to say to her. I said a little prayer for help, and the words just started coming. I hope you find the thing that connects with your son. Parenting is tough.
It is important for him to understand that his Heavenly Parents and his Savior know him personally in every moment and while They won't make his choices for him, they will help him find strength and peace in following their counsel. He also really needs to understand the atonement --- that his own personal best (which will get better as he continues to do it and avoids temptation) is ALWAYS enough to close the entire gap between it and objective perfection through the Atonement. That doesn't mean he can choose sin without consequences, but it does mean that as he does his best each day, he is square with THEM, even when his best isn't as good as he'd like it to be. ("Believing Christ" by Stephen Robinson is easy to read and helpful.) He doesn't have to be sure of what he believes. What he needs to choose is being actively engaged in learning and serving and being with people who are exploring the good parts of our world and seeking the Lord's help to avoid the pitfalls and bad examples he may see around him.
You say a 12 year old is still a child and doesn't know what he wants. If a 12 yr old doesn't know, why baptize an 8 year old? If an 8 yr old is considered old enough to choose to be baptized, a 12 yr old can choose whether or not to attend church. Forcing kids to go to church rarely ends well.
I really like how you put it-- if he was old enough to choose to be baptized 4 years ago, he's old enough to choose if he wants to continue when he's 12.
I agree with what you say about 8yo. I waited for my kids.
We're the parents. We force school, baths, chores... and yes, church. I'm an 80s parent. I don't buy into this modem parenting with a bunch of entitled no rules anxious and depressed kids.
I married in the 80s. I have 4 adult children. I don't necessarily agree with all the "modern parenting" that you refer to, but I also don't agree with forcing church on kids who are capable of making decisions and creating a serious rift with a child. My relationship with my children is more important than church attendance.
I think this is a good point. Fortunately it's never caused a division between myself and my kids. But you're right. If I had to choose, I would choose my kids in a heartbeat.
I agree. Not trying to criticize this mom at all. Kids are hard. I have four of them. But when my kids say they don't want to go to church, here is how the conversation proceeds:
9 Year Old" "Can I stay home? I don't feel well."
Me: "Why don't you have your shoes on yet? Put them on, and can you put Mom's bag in the car? Thanks."
The fact that the 12 year old believes they have the option of choosing to go to church or not is the bigger issue that needs to be addressed. And really, testimony is the real ultimate issue to address. Thats the reason for going in the first place.
How is your family come follow me reading going? If your kids have questions about their testimonies, maybe recommit to a family BoM read through with a focus on people who gain and lose testimonies as you read?
Our come follow me has dropped off a lot this year. There have been some major family issues for about six months now but I'm hoping things are settled down now for the most part. In the past when we've done come follow me only my 10-year-old will participate. My 12-year-old will leave the room.
I see your point about not staying home for trivial things, but he has flat out. Said he does not believe. I do feel like he's old enough to make that choice for himself he's Old enough to receive the priesthood.
First, I will just echo what others have said: attend your ward when you can, and a later Ward on other Sundays. It is all about going to worship the Lord. It really doesn't matter what time.
In regards to your son, it is difficult. I have one who is like that although he is older. It reached a point where there was extreme contention. He simply refused to go and we couldn't pick him up and carry him. The only answer I have for you is to love him and keep inviting him. He is his own person. Remember Laman and Lemuel. Lehi did his best. Blessings.
>My twelve year old has doubts about church and won't attend,
When I was 12 I didn't decide what I did and didn't do, my parents did as they were the adults.
So did my parents. The lesson I learned was that you went to church to please your parents, not for spiritual enlightenment.
Quit going as soon as I came of age.
Go to a later ward, if you need to. Your regular ward will get a new meeting time on January 1, right? So less than 6 months until then. Try to go to your regular ward. But it sounds like that hasn't worked. So do what is best for you and your family. People before policy. Best wishes to you. Your efforts are a great example to your kids.
My wife has horrible migraines and horrible sleep. We've only been to our 9am ward a couple times this year. We go when she can which usually means the ward starting at 12.
I have sleep problems as well, which makes it incredibly hard to get up early for my 9 a.m. I wish I had a good solution for you, but if nothing else, I can relate. I just usually have to get a long nap after church, which isn't the perfect solution but it does help. Best of luck finding the answer, I'd go to the Lord about it and see what he says. Also talk to your bishop and explain the situation, see if they have any advice. Best of luck!
My wife and I have the same issue, mainly because I work a night shift until either 1230 or 130am, depending on work load. I'm the one working but my wife stays up until I get home so we can go to bed together and be on the same schedule. Our solution is to have Church at home later in the day after we have slept in. I can bless the sacrament and we usually watch some General Conference recordings and cover the SS lesson. We still miss meeting with other Church members in our ward but my wife and I still count as 2 who meet wherever we are to worship together and we can feel the Spirit with us so it's still pretty good. You and others can do the same or as well as you can.
Just a note though. You can only bless the sacrament at home with approval from your Bishop. Just doing it at home for convenience isn’t valid sacrament. Not saying that’s what you’re doing because I don’t know what permission you have. Just for anyone that wants to do the same.
Yeah I know. Good of you to mention that for others.
10 - 12 am is the true and living church start time! But as for advice, just go for the 2nd hour and stay for sacrament of the next ward that probably starts after.
I prefer 8 am, get it out of the way, give me my Sunday back.
10 is early enough to get most of the day back, but 8 means you have to get a loooooot of kids ready and fed very early
Yeah, 10 is better for kids. Mine are grown, so no more of that nonsense.
Do you have a later ward in the building? If so, on days you can't do the early meeting, go to your wards second hour and stay for the other ward's sacrament meeting. I would consider going to my regular meeting (so my kids had the consistency of their friends) even if I knew I was going to sleep through the meeting. Does your 12 know that most members have doubts about this or that commandment, teaching, their ability or willingness to live the gospel, and a whole host of things? And they attend church anyway because that is just part of our mortal journey. That no one has to believe everything to be a needed and important part of the congregation. Also get him "Believing Christ" by Stephen Robinson in audiobook if it is available that way or read it to him. He really needs to know that his own personal best, plus quick repentance of actual sin is always enough to make him perfect in Christ through the atonement. And that no matter how much trouble he is having with anything, They know him and love him and believe in his ability to become like them. I would also get him involved in regular community service that family can do together and he can also independently do. Purpose and making a difference helps teens get out of their own heads in ways that can help them recognize their own capability and worth, despite whatever makes them fear they arent.......?
> Do you have a later ward in the building? If so, on days you can't do the early meeting, go to your wards second hour and stay for the other ward's sacrament meeting. We've done this numerous times
I really like the idea of attending the second meeting of my award and then going to sacrament meeting of the ward right after us. I'm not sure but they might overlap I'll have to check. As far as my 12-year-old goes, I've tried to talk to him about how he feels and what he believes at this point, but he hasn't really opened up to me about it. I try My best to keep the lines of communication open. Right now I feel like he just really isn't sure what he believes. I understand that many people in the congregation have differing levels of doubts just like he does, but I think he feels that if he has doubts he doesn't belong there. He is very against anything that is church right now. Possibly part of the problem is that my ex is no longer in the church and so he gets a different message with her.
It's gut-wrenching as a parent to watch a child go through this. At 14, mine had a similar rebelling. She was suddenly completely shut off and anti-religion. The mention of any gospel subject caused writhing like I'd thrown holy water on a vampire. We sat and had a heart to heart. I told her she had the agency to believe whatever she wanted and that I didn't want to force participation in things she didn't believe in. I explained that my faith was core to who I was as a person and that if she would like to understand me better as a person and have a deeper, more meaningful relationship with me, it would help to learn the gospel at least on an intellectual level. I offered to do the same for whatever she was identifying with in return. She agreed that she would come to church with the family on Sunday without the pressure of having to participate in sacrament, prayer, giving talks or lessons, etc. She was just there to learn who I was. (It helps that we have several non-member husbands that attend our ward because they love their wives and just want to be supportive and involved in things that are meaningful to them; I used them as examples). My daughter is about to turn 18 now. She still struggles with what she believes, but she is very open to religious discussion and enjoys friends she has made in the ward. She will participate in family prayer and has even asked about "come follow me" when we're behind. Takeaway: First, all of this was 100% inspired by the Spirit. This may not work for your child, but the Lord knows what will. Covenant keeping puts us parents in a position to lift our families with God's help. Second, our kids have agency. We can do everything right and still have them walk away. I feel like i can understand the appeal of Lucifers' plan and why so many fell from their first estate. All we can do is try our best, so their blood is not on our hands.
I love this idea. How did you come up with it? Like was it an answer to a prayer or did it just pop into your head?
Both, I was at a loss and really didn't know what to say to her. I said a little prayer for help, and the words just started coming. I hope you find the thing that connects with your son. Parenting is tough.
It is important for him to understand that his Heavenly Parents and his Savior know him personally in every moment and while They won't make his choices for him, they will help him find strength and peace in following their counsel. He also really needs to understand the atonement --- that his own personal best (which will get better as he continues to do it and avoids temptation) is ALWAYS enough to close the entire gap between it and objective perfection through the Atonement. That doesn't mean he can choose sin without consequences, but it does mean that as he does his best each day, he is square with THEM, even when his best isn't as good as he'd like it to be. ("Believing Christ" by Stephen Robinson is easy to read and helpful.) He doesn't have to be sure of what he believes. What he needs to choose is being actively engaged in learning and serving and being with people who are exploring the good parts of our world and seeking the Lord's help to avoid the pitfalls and bad examples he may see around him.
Just do it. The 12yo is still a child. He didn't know what he wants. Just make the decision today. In this family we go to church on Sundays.
You say a 12 year old is still a child and doesn't know what he wants. If a 12 yr old doesn't know, why baptize an 8 year old? If an 8 yr old is considered old enough to choose to be baptized, a 12 yr old can choose whether or not to attend church. Forcing kids to go to church rarely ends well.
Forcing someone into church is the best way to drive them away from the Church.
I agree forcing it will probably make it worse and harm our relationship
I really like how you put it-- if he was old enough to choose to be baptized 4 years ago, he's old enough to choose if he wants to continue when he's 12.
I agree with what you say about 8yo. I waited for my kids. We're the parents. We force school, baths, chores... and yes, church. I'm an 80s parent. I don't buy into this modem parenting with a bunch of entitled no rules anxious and depressed kids.
I married in the 80s. I have 4 adult children. I don't necessarily agree with all the "modern parenting" that you refer to, but I also don't agree with forcing church on kids who are capable of making decisions and creating a serious rift with a child. My relationship with my children is more important than church attendance.
I think this is a good point. Fortunately it's never caused a division between myself and my kids. But you're right. If I had to choose, I would choose my kids in a heartbeat.
I agree. Not trying to criticize this mom at all. Kids are hard. I have four of them. But when my kids say they don't want to go to church, here is how the conversation proceeds: 9 Year Old" "Can I stay home? I don't feel well." Me: "Why don't you have your shoes on yet? Put them on, and can you put Mom's bag in the car? Thanks." The fact that the 12 year old believes they have the option of choosing to go to church or not is the bigger issue that needs to be addressed. And really, testimony is the real ultimate issue to address. Thats the reason for going in the first place. How is your family come follow me reading going? If your kids have questions about their testimonies, maybe recommit to a family BoM read through with a focus on people who gain and lose testimonies as you read?
Our come follow me has dropped off a lot this year. There have been some major family issues for about six months now but I'm hoping things are settled down now for the most part. In the past when we've done come follow me only my 10-year-old will participate. My 12-year-old will leave the room. I see your point about not staying home for trivial things, but he has flat out. Said he does not believe. I do feel like he's old enough to make that choice for himself he's Old enough to receive the priesthood.
First, I will just echo what others have said: attend your ward when you can, and a later Ward on other Sundays. It is all about going to worship the Lord. It really doesn't matter what time. In regards to your son, it is difficult. I have one who is like that although he is older. It reached a point where there was extreme contention. He simply refused to go and we couldn't pick him up and carry him. The only answer I have for you is to love him and keep inviting him. He is his own person. Remember Laman and Lemuel. Lehi did his best. Blessings.
Lehi, Laman, and Lemuel. Thanks for that reminder it really made me stop and think. You lifted my spirits today.
>My twelve year old has doubts about church and won't attend, When I was 12 I didn't decide what I did and didn't do, my parents did as they were the adults.
So did my parents. The lesson I learned was that you went to church to please your parents, not for spiritual enlightenment. Quit going as soon as I came of age.