I'm on my my last resort. I've bought one of these.
[https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09P386KYR?ref=ppx\_yo2ov\_dt\_b\_product\_details&th=1](https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09P386KYR?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1)
I'm drilling down through my problem areas and filling up with compost\\loam to start the process of breaking it down. Might be worth a try before spending a fortune.
Also, incase y’all didn’t know, clay has an expansion rate once removed from the ground…. OP, figure out how thick that layer is and determine (using math) if it’s realistic for you to excavate it all (it’s going to weigh a fuck ton, but I’ve moved 20k-25k pounds of sediment by hand before , brutal). Determine if you need equipment or if that’s crazy also. If both those are unrealistic then you need to amend your soil with something / do more research. You got this
Considering 1 yard is 2700lbs…. Yeah maybe not a full 10 haha; def like 3-5 yards at least though. Mine was more a clayey sand but gravel, sand, silt and clay all weigh the same
https://preview.redd.it/6t5ptr48yiyc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be0bb21d615780345f72d428adabb44889bf181b
The most rewarding work is back work imo
You misunderstand, it's stupid easy if your just doing 4 inch plugs down about 5 inches. Landscaping companies all do it. But yes huge areas this is a long term play if your not just gonna remove the the top 6 inches. Bucket costs 10 bucks. 2k your way just for the first step and knock a fence down and destroy the front, fixing the back. Who knows what's stupid now.
Using an actual drill rig and hollow stem augers?
https://preview.redd.it/lxc7uc2sllzc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b91fe2d037f761e1981be3bf22ca0dd33ffcc98
Cool fucking drilling we did, air rotary method. Blasted a 10” diameter borehole through 100’ of Gneiss (vertically) in an hour.
I've heard of that method. I could try it. Mulch and manure etc. would have to physically fight the starlings to stop them eating every single worm too!
I've been adding top soil every year, but the amount of standing water I still have after putting in 3 French drains broke me. I'm hoping this works cos I can't think of anything else to try.
Good luck.
Have you seen those vertical "French drains"? A lot less labor to put in, if it works like they say...
[vertical French drain](https://youtu.be/H_EyoVQTrtw?si=9CiLw08v5j3z47K3)
Yeah. I feel you. I installed a long French drain, did nothing. Had to retrench and laid perforated pipe and ran it near a sewer.
I wish I just did the corrugated in the first place lol.
I was looking at options at our local rock quarry and they suggest adding expanded shale to clay areas to help aerate/loosen up soil. My understanding is you only have to work it in the top 6 inches.
A friend of mine tilled his yard with a load of compost and it made a big difference for him. But I think you’d want to till it deep.
One thing with soil is if you have layers of different types it can cause issues with water penetration and retention. They say it’s best to have a gradual transition.
Best comparison I'd say is about a pringles can before the drill hits bedrock. I've done loads, and there's the added benefit that I've found a bunch of rocks that were blocking drainage and root depth, so they'll be coming out.
Too soon to say if I'm pissing in the wind. I'm scarifying, seeding and dressing as soon as there's a couple of dry days then I'll wait.
I was surprised. Better when it's soft and take it slow. Have it on torque mode, not driver or you'll nearly break your wrist if it bites.
Ask me how I know. 🤣
Don’t worry the framers, siding guys, brick guys and everyone else will have debris laying around and it will be backfilled under your 6” of topsoil. My neighbor regraded his yard with a rock hound and found a 10’x6’ section of Tyvek house wrap
So many new builds we mow have nice grass for like a year before the thin soil starts to take its toll; it seems like one of those "paint over it" cause it'll be too late for any recourse by the time the homeowner learns about the problem
I ended up buying a dump truck of topsoil, farrowed the clay and then borrowed a friends mini dirt mover to put down about 5-6 inches of dirt along my yard. It's the only way I could get grass to grow
Before you do that, have you tried applying a soil loosener? Mag-i-cal or simple lawn solutions? I've also heard baby shampoo works but you'd have to do your own research on that.
Have you tried a soil test yet to see how much amendments you need? I'm on clay too and able to grow kgb & tall fescue on 6k sqft. Calcium is 69.3% of my soil composition with a pH of 7.9. I'd honestly love to have such a small lawn to experiment with amendments.
I amended clay and had success. You need a lot of compost though, we brought in 3 cubic yards for about 1500 sqft,, and thoroughly tilled it in. It's been great for 3 years
Well shit, i was reading and it looks like if it gets compacted it can make it worse. So I would just have to do it every year but it looks like compost if the way to go.
“Id honestly love to have such a small lawn to experiment with amendments.”
This is like complimenting your neighbors new car and saying you’re thinking about buying one for your daughter lol
> I'd honestly love to have such a small lawn to experiment with amendments.
You can always take a part of your yard to experiment. "Crapshoot corner" or whatever
Our back yard had quite a bit of clay. I aerated and used gypsum to help break it up. did that spring/fall/spring and I can now push a screwdriver into the dirt all the way with minimal effort.
Gypsum is a miracle for rejuvenating soil. We had hard, dead soil after years of neglect by the previous owner. Applied a thin top dressing of gypsum under compost every spring and within two years we had gorgeous loamy soil filled with worms. Very affordable and not labor-intensive.
So you just spread gypsum over your existing lawn and then spread compost over the lawn? Spread it and water it in… or did you till both into your soil?
No tilling. Put it over the existing lawn, but to be fair the lawn had large dead spots with bare dirt. We used a spreader to put down a layer of gypsum then sprinkled about an inch of fine (ie not chunky) compost over it and watered it in. The gypsum and compost percolated down between the blades of grass. Did this for two consecutive springs. By the third spring the soil drainage had improved dramatically and we reseeded the bare spots with new grass which thrived. It was a relatively long process but much cheaper and easier than digging out the existing lawn and adding new topsoil.
Made me forget about gypsum. I’m clay based here and usually use it as part of my hole digging when I plant new trees and such. Great success mixing gypsum, blood and bone, dynamic lifter, compost and potting mix as the base for trees and plants here.
Back garden lawn has been suffering like OPs, tried everything from water wetter (detergent based), seaweed, grass fertiliser, skimming compost, top soil and sand, and aerating.
Still suffering, might try gypsum before I hack it up and mix in a truck of proper top soil
Its granular, so you can use a spreader if you want.
I used our spreader for two passes, then walked around with a large cup of granules and a beer and tried to concentrate on random aerator holes about every 2-3 feet. Our grass area in the back yard is about the same size as yours.
The thing I heard about clay and gypsum is to make sure that the clay is sodic and you have a drainage solution. You could have a saline clay and gypsum won’t help. I think the only way to know is with a soil test. The drainage is important because the gypsum reacts with the Na and needs to be rinsed away from the root system. Gypsum Ameliorating apparently is a multi step process. However, I think that it’s cheap enough that if you add it and it doesn’t work, then what’s the big deal? Someone might chime in as to what damage that might cause. Also this is my regurgitation from YouTuber spew, so it might be complete nonsense.
What type of grass are you trying to grow? Some of the best looking grass I’ve seen was right on top of red clay. It gets a lot of hate but red clay is high and iron and often very good for moisture retention
This isn't red clay unfortunately. I was growing fescue as this is in Ireland and the clay is akin to pottery clay. Very limey.
The stuff is unbelievably sticky and impermeable. Nothing grows right in it
Ahhh. We have that here too though it’s usually a subsoil. My apologies. Best of luck. I knew some people that swore by gypsum applications to soften clay soils but I can’t speak to the efficacy or what application rates it would take to effect change
I've heard that, but I'm afraid to do it as some people say it does more harm than good. It's such a small lawn that I'm leaning towards just ripping the top 6-12'' out and replacing it as well as adding some french drains to help with the crappy subsoils
I have thick clay soil that’s very sticky when wet and turns to rock when dried. My fescue grows pretty well on it. I agree with others to get a soil test first to see what else you might be dealing with. Then maybe core aerate in the fall and amend.
How do you core aerate clay? It seems like my yard either gets so wet that any weight is gonna leave ruts and marks, or it’s so hard, the aerator skips off of it and doesn’t really penetrate.
That’s my experience with a tractor and a spike aerator. I know it’s not the same, but I had those issues with getting it to penetrate. I assume it would be the same with a core aerator.
I also have a very large yard, so a tractor mounted one would be ideal. Our local place will rent the pto or walk behind for the same price.
Our lawn was extremely clay heavy, water would sit for weeks. Bought a 3” drill auger and drilled holes all over the place. Backfilled with compost. Next I took a manual aerator, pulled cores everywhere and top dressed with triple mix.
I also added a liquid humid acid, which apparently dissolves salt particles in the clay or something, making it so they don’t stick together as much.
Two years later and my lawn is 10x better than before. Deep roots, drains much quicker, like 24 hours instead of two weeks.
Still needs improvement, but it definitely helped.
I can go out at night now after a good rain, and actually hear the thousands of earth worms working through the soil, something I never had before
I’m in SE Michigan. Around here we are sitting on top of massive limestone deposits and blue clay…core aeration is an every year thing. Top dressed with compost and sand. Get a soil test and add your micros. After about 5-7 years you’ll build up a good base of decent soil with the right stuff in it.
Until then it’s massive water and fertilizer bills to keep it decent.
You need to balance out the magnesium and calcium in the soil. Add more organic matter to the soil. I've got a lot of clay and Carbon Pro G from Lesco helps greatly.
Not an expert but are you bagging? That takes away clippings that fall down and break down. Bagging literally takes away organic material that the creepy crawlies like to burrow and eat. I am in heavy red clay.
Instead of bringing in new soil you could try to amend what you have. I saw some people recommending you drill holes and fill with compost, but have you considered bringing in some compost and maybe sand and tilling it into the top few inches?
That’s what a lot of agricultural fields here in North Carolina will do, but I also think our “clay” is higher quality than what you’re working with.
Kudos for trying, keep fighting the good fight!
Sulphuric acid or gypsum will breakdown the first couple of inches of the clay. Next 3-4" of fine all natural BARK mulch or pine straw topped with nitrogen. Next, 2-3" of compost. Top with 1-2" of topsoil. This will give you 7-10" of a rich base.
Took me a few years but I just made my whole yard a compost of grass clippings . Every few days I would turn dirt with a shovel . I would work out for a few hours every night after work . Just got done a little by little .
Core aerate early, based on soil tests you’ll likely have to put down some amendments like fast acting lime, gypsum maybe even spread some loamy top soil.
This will help break up the clay and introduce what’s needed to create a microbial environment to maintain soil naturally which clay is terrible at
I live in hard clay area, I used a rotovator to break it up and did that over a couple months then put around 4 tons of sandy top soil on top with raised it around 5cm and seemed to work
I’ll throw out a few ideas/comments
1) that concrete below the fence puts out a TON of heat. Would be a cool idea to go out there after a hot day towards sunset and take a thermo camera around to see soil surface temps. Gonna be a tough to have grass grow and look great consistently there.
2) what type of grass is it? If perennial rye you might want to consider a hardier tttf
3) use this as a test! You seem knowledgeable enough to know grass isn’t a quick night and day it’s a slow but rewarding process. Maybe amend the soil in one half and see how it looks try different methods.
4) I’d aerate the piss out of that lawn. Up down side side cross cross etc. get cores up and fill all the holes with some type of soil amendment or mixture of it all. Get a soil test.
5) sometimes you have to pick and choose your battles. While you like grass maybe it’s just not worth the time money and effort for that area. Consider landscape beds around fence and make the middle grass. Plant accordingly.
Clay breaker is a fantastic product in preparation for a lawn. It's fackin expensive, though it does work. You can't really do any minor drainage work with heavy clay, multiple land drains leading to proper drainage system. You can't just put 100mm of top soil over clay and expect it to drain (which is what most of the house builders do after charging extra for the pleasure!)
Clay is an awesome growing media. It holds onto water and nutrients better than anything. Don't waste your time and money trucking in loads of topsoil. Your grass roots will create topsoil for you.
Don't believe me? This dude grows grass over concrete.
https://youtu.be/k1A0xAjjcAw?si=vli_VgBdHsAhkvgZ
Looks like you're battling disease. Improve your cultural practices.
2 years of core aeration, top dressing, overseeding, all the easy stuff.
But it all comes down to the clay I feel. Can't get the stuff to break up or loosen at all
My mother-in-law had a beautiful lawn and swore by yearly gypsum to break down the clay in her yard. Although not sure if she kept using gypsum after she got the grass looking nice.
Gypsum only works on a very limited type of clay soil (sodic soil). If you have the correct clay then yes Gypsum is useful to apply but the vast majority of clay doesn’t respond to gypsum at all. I’d recommend you have a read up about it online, there are some simple ways to see what clay soil you have.
To add on what everyone is saying, have you tried humic acid and sea kelp? Humic acid will stimulate the soil biochemistry and potentially have bacteria help breakup the clay. It will also help your grass intake more nutrients from the ground. The sea kelp will stimulate root growth. With the "softer" soil from the humic, the grass has a better chance at driving roots down. This goes well with aerations as well.
I image it as aeration allows air and water to get down to the roots. Humic supercharges this process. Now the roots can grow deeper which can be supercharged by the sea kelp. Some of those roots will die but that allows air and water to go deeper so the cycle repeats.
To add on what everyone is saying, have you tried humic acid and sea kelp? Humic acid will stimulate the soil biochemistry and potentially have bacteria help breakup the clay. It will also help your grass intake more nutrients from the ground. The sea kelp will stimulate root growth. With the "softer" soil from the humic, the grass has a better chance at driving roots down. This goes well with aerations as well.
I image it as aeration allows air and water to get down to the roots. Humic supercharges this process. Now the roots can grow deeper which can be supercharged by the sea kelp. Some of those roots will die but that allows air and water to go deeper so the cycle repeats.
To add on what everyone is saying, have you tried humic acid and sea kelp? Humic acid will stimulate the soil biochemistry and potentially have bacteria help breakup the clay. It will also help your grass intake more nutrients from the ground. The sea kelp will stimulate root growth. With the "softer" soil from the humic, the grass has a better chance at driving roots down. This goes well with aerations as well.
I image it as aeration allows air and water to get down to the roots. Humic supercharges this process. Now the roots can grow deeper which can be supercharged by the sea kelp. Some of those roots will die but that allows air and water to go deeper so the cycle repeats.
Have you done a soil test by chance? I feel you about the clay. We live around Atlanta GA and i recently dug holes for some bushes and i swear i was digging out a primordial layer of decomposed Oompa Loompas. Im talking orange like juice. The lawn has been in since 2006 so its ok. The backyard is different. 6-12 inches down and i hit “bedrock” in the form of para-gneiss. Same rock formations that caused Stone Mountain like 20-30 miles away.
https://preview.redd.it/zz8v27dcdayc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b533c4397830f9395a0cc359598910d76dceb015
I have clay also… in NC the same thing happened to me last season
You can dig it out, but clay soil can be improved. For less money than digging it out and replacing the lawn, you could pay for aeration, top dressing sand, liquid compost, seaweed emulsion, fish emulsion. It needs the amount of organic matter in the soil built up to change the soil structure. It takes time.
Gypsum is only effective in certain conditions, and it’s for a limited time. This is because of ion exchange.
You could just back fill it with top soil and let the sod grow through. Do it annually till you don’t have to. Clay is ok just not when it’s RIGHT under right the sod
I had clay soil when I moved into my place. I did yearly topdressing with 1/3" of screened compost. My soil is now extremely rich and the lawn looks great too.
I went through this 2 summers ago ... Killed all the grass and tilled the crap out of the concrete like clay. Grass roots went maybe 1" into the clay. Watering just resulted in run off. So I spent an entire summer digging out the clay. Added 5" of loam, sand and compost into the loosened clay and resodded. 2 years later I dug out a section and the roots were 8" into the soil. Good luck!
We just scattered a ton of daikon radish seed in the lawn. We have high phosphorus, so we’re going to yank and compost those for our raised bed garden (and probably eat a couple) and backfill the radish holes with mulch and bloodmeal to add organic matter and nitrogen. If our soil test comes back better next year, we’ll repeat the daikon and leave them in the ground to decompose.
I've been aerating it a lot and I did two seasons of top dressing. I held off on the sand introduction as a few people said adding the sand to grey clays can compound the issue of impermeability by binding into harder subsoil.
I wasn't able to find a definitive answer so I decided not to. It's something I need to reconsider maybe.
There’s a trick where you mix soap in water and spread it on the problem spots. Grubs should come out minutes after. https://youtu.be/YFgXPKThd2M?si=2BmuJeZ7LNJxA6NE
This stuff helped me out
https://www.amazon.com/Earth-Right-Super-Enhanced-Conditioner/dp/B07T7Z8PZ6/ref=asc_df_B07T7Z8PZ6/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693713553286&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17971599617044896301&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1017596&hvtargid=pla-904347250076&psc=1&mcid=e876c4a79b2334929dd3fcd01166a1a0&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwudexBhDKARIsAI-GWYU3YcTT9NyBK4I4bUnF8R7EZVBaq7JEDtHo61QKEK4BFkYmrRHjGDAaAtoKEALw_wcB
We grow sod in mostly clay soils in our field. It's a pain but we do get a good harvest able product. There's methods, but definitely hard to grow a lawn on
I live in Austin, the soil here is famously like pure clay.
We moved into a new house recently and the soil was just completely dried out, cracked; only huge bundles of weeds spread out. Around 1000sqft.
First, plan out your sprinklers and set them all up. If you’re using the traditional rotating ones, get the good heavy duty brass ones from home depot. You can probably get away with two, put one in the left corner closest to your house and one in the right corner furthest away (or vice versa). Get a splitter for your faucet, or another hose so you can link the sprinklers together.
Hand pull all of the weeds with the roots as best as possible. Do NOT put weed and feed down or spray with any products.
I got a D-Shovel and tilled the entire thing 4” down, broke the clay up as best I could as I went along, making sure not to mix it all back in. Try not to step too much all over what you’ve tilled, ie avoid compacting down the soil.
This is also your opportunity to dig runs to plant the hoses to your sprinklers underground so they’re out of sight.
Put down 2” of top soil mixed with organic composted manure, and about 1” of organic compost (both from home depot, brand called Texas Native). I needed 22 bags of the manure soil and 12 of the compost, Probably cost around $150 total. If you can afford more do another 50% or so of each, I didn’t do this just because I was hand-lugging them back from home depot alone.
One bag of Scott’s starter fertilizer, plus two bags of some Bermuda grass seed mix (whatever you need for your sqft).
Blended it all together with a bow rake and levelled it as best I could with that. Make sure to start in the far corner and not to step on soil after you’ve done any of this, at all for the next few weeks until it’s grown; else you’ll compact it all down. You want it to stay aerated / good drainage.
Keep the soil most for the next few weeks. For me in TX that means watering 4x a day for 3-5 minutes, the most sun-exposed part gets two additional 2 minute waterings per day.
2-4 weeks later, put down another bag of Scott’s starter fertilizer.
Grass sprouted very well in about 3 weeks from tilling. It’s not completely full, but even the thin patches have blades coming through slowly. The parts where the sprinklers don’t quite reach as much are growing through slower.
Unfortunately, I needed some roof work done shortly after I did all of this and the workers compacted a bunch of the soil down in some areas, which are now the only areas that are struggling to grow. I’m gonna give it some more time but might have to till those areas again.
Avoid walking on the soil at all for at least a month. Don’t let any dogs near it either. I’ve kept my dogs indoors for weeks now to give it a chance to grow.
Do NOT put down any weed killer, weed and feed, nothing. In about 8 weeks you should fertilize with a good nitrogen-heavy fertilizer.
Depending on your grass seed, you should mow it once it’s grown a few inches. Just read the label.
That first pic is easily 40% clover. It was going so well! Need to restructure the soil somehow first, but I will definitely getting the clover back. Love the stuff
I live in central Texas.
I’m going to start using the method of boring out 8”’to 12” deep holes in my yard and backfilling with a few inches of rock with fertilizer, sandy loam, top soil. This will slowly start to replace the clay. Also there are liquid agents you can use to add bio organisms that literally eat clay
Yeah youre not wrong. I'm thinking of raised beds along the shady back section. But it's such a small garden that we want to keep some of it for use with our kid in the summer.
Somewhere to sit out and BBQ etc.
Looks like a great place for a garden! Raised beds, hugelkultur, a few tilled row beds. If you do any or a combination of the three, that sod will be a great addition plus some organic material you bring in. Grow some food, plant some clover in between the planting spaces!
The roots just can’t grow into the clay effectively.
It's brutal stuff. Just gonna have to take the hit and get it taken out and replaced with loam
I'm on my my last resort. I've bought one of these. [https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09P386KYR?ref=ppx\_yo2ov\_dt\_b\_product\_details&th=1](https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09P386KYR?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1) I'm drilling down through my problem areas and filling up with compost\\loam to start the process of breaking it down. Might be worth a try before spending a fortune.
Do you Aug in a bucket? Saw a guy who cuts a hole in his bucket to fit the auger there drills in it to catch the clay
That's genius.
No it’s not, it’s stupid and you’ll break your back at 2.78grams/ cubic cm
Also, incase y’all didn’t know, clay has an expansion rate once removed from the ground…. OP, figure out how thick that layer is and determine (using math) if it’s realistic for you to excavate it all (it’s going to weigh a fuck ton, but I’ve moved 20k-25k pounds of sediment by hand before , brutal). Determine if you need equipment or if that’s crazy also. If both those are unrealistic then you need to amend your soil with something / do more research. You got this
You did that *by hand*? Your poor back, good lord
Considering 1 yard is 2700lbs…. Yeah maybe not a full 10 haha; def like 3-5 yards at least though. Mine was more a clayey sand but gravel, sand, silt and clay all weigh the same
https://preview.redd.it/2g1sl2itxiyc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d922851dc1d11303e2d9256e896d51fb83ff4061
https://preview.redd.it/8easv3vvxiyc1.jpeg?width=1186&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d6a82edda828cfd9b3e786a057565aef76768be
https://preview.redd.it/r7qq8c5zxiyc1.jpeg?width=3023&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dcd3347a4462a550913c935fa06fb508ad658355
https://preview.redd.it/5fuv0q42yiyc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae7261e703957353d7c1ca14ffcf24d17b34cb7d
https://preview.redd.it/p7pqiws4yiyc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=474ac906d3e332ec8a7ab837c3a5006c3babe0f1
https://preview.redd.it/6t5ptr48yiyc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be0bb21d615780345f72d428adabb44889bf181b The most rewarding work is back work imo
https://preview.redd.it/2o6jsa6hyiyc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05d5b17a3f1a3d12172e4eab324ad86a718e741a May, 2024 backyard update:
Shade appears to be a big issue :(
You misunderstand, it's stupid easy if your just doing 4 inch plugs down about 5 inches. Landscaping companies all do it. But yes huge areas this is a long term play if your not just gonna remove the the top 6 inches. Bucket costs 10 bucks. 2k your way just for the first step and knock a fence down and destroy the front, fixing the back. Who knows what's stupid now.
Saw a fence builder that does this with plastic kid swimming pool
That's hardcore
Using an actual drill rig and hollow stem augers? https://preview.redd.it/lxc7uc2sllzc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b91fe2d037f761e1981be3bf22ca0dd33ffcc98 Cool fucking drilling we did, air rotary method. Blasted a 10” diameter borehole through 100’ of Gneiss (vertically) in an hour.
I've heard of that method. I could try it. Mulch and manure etc. would have to physically fight the starlings to stop them eating every single worm too!
I've been adding top soil every year, but the amount of standing water I still have after putting in 3 French drains broke me. I'm hoping this works cos I can't think of anything else to try. Good luck.
Have you seen those vertical "French drains"? A lot less labor to put in, if it works like they say... [vertical French drain](https://youtu.be/H_EyoVQTrtw?si=9CiLw08v5j3z47K3)
Gotta love Chuck with Apple Drains!
Happy cake day Dickhead
*Dikheed
Thanks. 🤣
Yeah. I feel you. I installed a long French drain, did nothing. Had to retrench and laid perforated pipe and ran it near a sewer. I wish I just did the corrugated in the first place lol.
How did you do it before the pipe?
Trench with pebble. Couldn’t handle what I needed.
I was looking at options at our local rock quarry and they suggest adding expanded shale to clay areas to help aerate/loosen up soil. My understanding is you only have to work it in the top 6 inches.
A friend of mine tilled his yard with a load of compost and it made a big difference for him. But I think you’d want to till it deep. One thing with soil is if you have layers of different types it can cause issues with water penetration and retention. They say it’s best to have a gradual transition.
How big are the holes you're drilling and how deep?
Best comparison I'd say is about a pringles can before the drill hits bedrock. I've done loads, and there's the added benefit that I've found a bunch of rocks that were blocking drainage and root depth, so they'll be coming out. Too soon to say if I'm pissing in the wind. I'm scarifying, seeding and dressing as soon as there's a couple of dry days then I'll wait.
So you drill these holes around the yard and fill them with loam?
Yeah, the theory is that bacteria breaks up the soil apparently.
Interesting. Good luck
I'm doing this, too! I hate clay. All my homies hate clay. Even the cactus don't like it. It's got to gooooo
Clay is the enemy.
Clay doesn’t have much good to say about you either. But seriously, I’m in north Dallas Texas, and let me tell you about the vile soil we have here.
Thanks for the feedback. I hope it works for you and you end up posting a good follow up next year.
Thanks, same to you.
Happy cake day
Same!!! Saw it on YouTube
What are you using to drive it?
Hand drill, De Walt. You can buy hand turned ones too.
Thanks. I can't imagine a hand drill getting through my clay - wet or dry.
I was surprised. Better when it's soft and take it slow. Have it on torque mode, not driver or you'll nearly break your wrist if it bites. Ask me how I know. 🤣
Happened to me a couple weeks ago, even my cheap Walmart drill nearly snapped my wrist lol
Residential contractors are the absolute worst. 6" of topsoil should be mandatory on all new lots.
Don’t worry the framers, siding guys, brick guys and everyone else will have debris laying around and it will be backfilled under your 6” of topsoil. My neighbor regraded his yard with a rock hound and found a 10’x6’ section of Tyvek house wrap
So many new builds we mow have nice grass for like a year before the thin soil starts to take its toll; it seems like one of those "paint over it" cause it'll be too late for any recourse by the time the homeowner learns about the problem
I ended up buying a dump truck of topsoil, farrowed the clay and then borrowed a friends mini dirt mover to put down about 5-6 inches of dirt along my yard. It's the only way I could get grass to grow
Aerate rent a pencil tiner
Especially good when dry
Before you do that, have you tried applying a soil loosener? Mag-i-cal or simple lawn solutions? I've also heard baby shampoo works but you'd have to do your own research on that.
It will turn into a pond with mush on top.
Have you tried a soil test yet to see how much amendments you need? I'm on clay too and able to grow kgb & tall fescue on 6k sqft. Calcium is 69.3% of my soil composition with a pH of 7.9. I'd honestly love to have such a small lawn to experiment with amendments.
If mine was similar composition what would amendments even look like? Genuinely curious
I amended clay and had success. You need a lot of compost though, we brought in 3 cubic yards for about 1500 sqft,, and thoroughly tilled it in. It's been great for 3 years
My soil test revealed too much salt. 2 applications of gypsum and its looking a lot better. My next project is aerate and backfill with sand.
Backfill with sand? Do you mean in the aerated holes? I also heard you don’t want to mix sand and clay as it makes something similar to adobe?
Well shit, i was reading and it looks like if it gets compacted it can make it worse. So I would just have to do it every year but it looks like compost if the way to go.
Look up composted cotton burrs. It's is great for breaking up clay soils.
“Id honestly love to have such a small lawn to experiment with amendments.” This is like complimenting your neighbors new car and saying you’re thinking about buying one for your daughter lol
> I'd honestly love to have such a small lawn to experiment with amendments. You can always take a part of your yard to experiment. "Crapshoot corner" or whatever
I love "crapshoot corner!" haha
Our back yard had quite a bit of clay. I aerated and used gypsum to help break it up. did that spring/fall/spring and I can now push a screwdriver into the dirt all the way with minimal effort.
Gypsum is a miracle for rejuvenating soil. We had hard, dead soil after years of neglect by the previous owner. Applied a thin top dressing of gypsum under compost every spring and within two years we had gorgeous loamy soil filled with worms. Very affordable and not labor-intensive.
you want it filled with worms??
How else can we propagate the spice melange, thus making interstellar travel possible?
Yes
Nature's aerators and a free source of high quality fertilizer
You want allllll the worms.
Nothing better than clay with structure and nothing worse than clay without structure. Most clay can be amended.
So you just spread gypsum over your existing lawn and then spread compost over the lawn? Spread it and water it in… or did you till both into your soil?
No tilling. Put it over the existing lawn, but to be fair the lawn had large dead spots with bare dirt. We used a spreader to put down a layer of gypsum then sprinkled about an inch of fine (ie not chunky) compost over it and watered it in. The gypsum and compost percolated down between the blades of grass. Did this for two consecutive springs. By the third spring the soil drainage had improved dramatically and we reseeded the bare spots with new grass which thrived. It was a relatively long process but much cheaper and easier than digging out the existing lawn and adding new topsoil.
Made me forget about gypsum. I’m clay based here and usually use it as part of my hole digging when I plant new trees and such. Great success mixing gypsum, blood and bone, dynamic lifter, compost and potting mix as the base for trees and plants here. Back garden lawn has been suffering like OPs, tried everything from water wetter (detergent based), seaweed, grass fertiliser, skimming compost, top soil and sand, and aerating. Still suffering, might try gypsum before I hack it up and mix in a truck of proper top soil
How do you go about applying the gypsum?
Its granular, so you can use a spreader if you want. I used our spreader for two passes, then walked around with a large cup of granules and a beer and tried to concentrate on random aerator holes about every 2-3 feet. Our grass area in the back yard is about the same size as yours.
Thanks for that, sounds like my next step maybe!
The thing I heard about clay and gypsum is to make sure that the clay is sodic and you have a drainage solution. You could have a saline clay and gypsum won’t help. I think the only way to know is with a soil test. The drainage is important because the gypsum reacts with the Na and needs to be rinsed away from the root system. Gypsum Ameliorating apparently is a multi step process. However, I think that it’s cheap enough that if you add it and it doesn’t work, then what’s the big deal? Someone might chime in as to what damage that might cause. Also this is my regurgitation from YouTuber spew, so it might be complete nonsense.
What type of grass are you trying to grow? Some of the best looking grass I’ve seen was right on top of red clay. It gets a lot of hate but red clay is high and iron and often very good for moisture retention
This isn't red clay unfortunately. I was growing fescue as this is in Ireland and the clay is akin to pottery clay. Very limey. The stuff is unbelievably sticky and impermeable. Nothing grows right in it
Ahhh. We have that here too though it’s usually a subsoil. My apologies. Best of luck. I knew some people that swore by gypsum applications to soften clay soils but I can’t speak to the efficacy or what application rates it would take to effect change
I've heard that, but I'm afraid to do it as some people say it does more harm than good. It's such a small lawn that I'm leaning towards just ripping the top 6-12'' out and replacing it as well as adding some french drains to help with the crappy subsoils
In the long run, this is the best method.Go 12” if you can. A French drain is also a great idea.
Sounds like a good plan.
Except potatoes I guess. Time for some tubers!
I have thick clay soil that’s very sticky when wet and turns to rock when dried. My fescue grows pretty well on it. I agree with others to get a soil test first to see what else you might be dealing with. Then maybe core aerate in the fall and amend.
How do you core aerate clay? It seems like my yard either gets so wet that any weight is gonna leave ruts and marks, or it’s so hard, the aerator skips off of it and doesn’t really penetrate. That’s my experience with a tractor and a spike aerator. I know it’s not the same, but I had those issues with getting it to penetrate. I assume it would be the same with a core aerator. I also have a very large yard, so a tractor mounted one would be ideal. Our local place will rent the pto or walk behind for the same price.
Our lawn was extremely clay heavy, water would sit for weeks. Bought a 3” drill auger and drilled holes all over the place. Backfilled with compost. Next I took a manual aerator, pulled cores everywhere and top dressed with triple mix. I also added a liquid humid acid, which apparently dissolves salt particles in the clay or something, making it so they don’t stick together as much. Two years later and my lawn is 10x better than before. Deep roots, drains much quicker, like 24 hours instead of two weeks. Still needs improvement, but it definitely helped. I can go out at night now after a good rain, and actually hear the thousands of earth worms working through the soil, something I never had before
Just core aerate, add organic material, and overseed. It won't be an overnight success but you'll eventually get a nice lawn doing that every year
I’m in SE Michigan. Around here we are sitting on top of massive limestone deposits and blue clay…core aeration is an every year thing. Top dressed with compost and sand. Get a soil test and add your micros. After about 5-7 years you’ll build up a good base of decent soil with the right stuff in it. Until then it’s massive water and fertilizer bills to keep it decent.
No issues with the sand and clay mixing?
Sand on top of clay is something that can be worked with. Your kinda building a raised bed on top of the clay.
We top dress Bermuda lawns grown in Georgia red clay and we use sand.
You need to balance out the magnesium and calcium in the soil. Add more organic matter to the soil. I've got a lot of clay and Carbon Pro G from Lesco helps greatly.
Not an expert but are you bagging? That takes away clippings that fall down and break down. Bagging literally takes away organic material that the creepy crawlies like to burrow and eat. I am in heavy red clay.
It be like that sometimes
Sure does
Sounds stupid but I had some luck with baby shampoo all on the lawn and a manual aeration in a few trouble spots last year.
Instead of bringing in new soil you could try to amend what you have. I saw some people recommending you drill holes and fill with compost, but have you considered bringing in some compost and maybe sand and tilling it into the top few inches? That’s what a lot of agricultural fields here in North Carolina will do, but I also think our “clay” is higher quality than what you’re working with. Kudos for trying, keep fighting the good fight!
Sulphuric acid or gypsum will breakdown the first couple of inches of the clay. Next 3-4" of fine all natural BARK mulch or pine straw topped with nitrogen. Next, 2-3" of compost. Top with 1-2" of topsoil. This will give you 7-10" of a rich base.
Did you water ?
Just rent a tiller and add topsoil and sand to the mix .
Took me a few years but I just made my whole yard a compost of grass clippings . Every few days I would turn dirt with a shovel . I would work out for a few hours every night after work . Just got done a little by little .
Try composting. Use the dig & drop method.
Lol that made me laugh...I fought the clay and the clay won...LMFAO!
As someone who is considering laying sod on clay soil, how do I avoid this?
Core aerate early, based on soil tests you’ll likely have to put down some amendments like fast acting lime, gypsum maybe even spread some loamy top soil. This will help break up the clay and introduce what’s needed to create a microbial environment to maintain soil naturally which clay is terrible at
Gypsum might be the missing elements for this soil. I aerated and topdresssed for two seasons and it still died in the winter
Do a soil test?
I got a truck load of gypsum and a rotary tiller and went to town. I also regularly use chook poo as fertiliser.
Aerate and gypsum you got this man
Roger roger
Compost is the best soil amendment for clay. If I was op I’d be composting at least once a year if not twice if there’s no weed pressure.
How do you incorporate compost into compacted clay? Genuine question
Have you tried to use humic acid and biochar?
Read this in the tune of “I Fought The Law”
That's exactly what I was going for 👍
Gypsum and compost is your friend!!! Gypsum works an absolute treat for breaking up clay soils.
I live in hard clay area, I used a rotovator to break it up and did that over a couple months then put around 4 tons of sandy top soil on top with raised it around 5cm and seemed to work
I’ll throw out a few ideas/comments 1) that concrete below the fence puts out a TON of heat. Would be a cool idea to go out there after a hot day towards sunset and take a thermo camera around to see soil surface temps. Gonna be a tough to have grass grow and look great consistently there. 2) what type of grass is it? If perennial rye you might want to consider a hardier tttf 3) use this as a test! You seem knowledgeable enough to know grass isn’t a quick night and day it’s a slow but rewarding process. Maybe amend the soil in one half and see how it looks try different methods. 4) I’d aerate the piss out of that lawn. Up down side side cross cross etc. get cores up and fill all the holes with some type of soil amendment or mixture of it all. Get a soil test. 5) sometimes you have to pick and choose your battles. While you like grass maybe it’s just not worth the time money and effort for that area. Consider landscape beds around fence and make the middle grass. Plant accordingly.
Clay breaker is a fantastic product in preparation for a lawn. It's fackin expensive, though it does work. You can't really do any minor drainage work with heavy clay, multiple land drains leading to proper drainage system. You can't just put 100mm of top soil over clay and expect it to drain (which is what most of the house builders do after charging extra for the pleasure!)
Compost is cheaper and more lasting in its benefits.
Clay is an awesome growing media. It holds onto water and nutrients better than anything. Don't waste your time and money trucking in loads of topsoil. Your grass roots will create topsoil for you. Don't believe me? This dude grows grass over concrete. https://youtu.be/k1A0xAjjcAw?si=vli_VgBdHsAhkvgZ Looks like you're battling disease. Improve your cultural practices.
What did you try?
2 years of core aeration, top dressing, overseeding, all the easy stuff. But it all comes down to the clay I feel. Can't get the stuff to break up or loosen at all
My mother-in-law had a beautiful lawn and swore by yearly gypsum to break down the clay in her yard. Although not sure if she kept using gypsum after she got the grass looking nice.
Good to know, I'll try that next I think. Some Lawn Gold solution maybe
Gypsum only works on a very limited type of clay soil (sodic soil). If you have the correct clay then yes Gypsum is useful to apply but the vast majority of clay doesn’t respond to gypsum at all. I’d recommend you have a read up about it online, there are some simple ways to see what clay soil you have.
Thanks! That's why I was hesitant to use gypsum. I knew I'd heard from someone before that it isn't always the right call.
Compost, manure / anything organic is honestly your best bet to improve the soil.
Would laying some top soil work? Not sure how thick you would have to go or if this would work
Yeah that's one of my only options left. Can't raise the ground anymore cos of paths etc. so I need to dig out 6-12" of soil and replace it maybe.
Calcium or gypsum is known to help
Did they not put down a layer of top soil before hand?
To add on what everyone is saying, have you tried humic acid and sea kelp? Humic acid will stimulate the soil biochemistry and potentially have bacteria help breakup the clay. It will also help your grass intake more nutrients from the ground. The sea kelp will stimulate root growth. With the "softer" soil from the humic, the grass has a better chance at driving roots down. This goes well with aerations as well. I image it as aeration allows air and water to get down to the roots. Humic supercharges this process. Now the roots can grow deeper which can be supercharged by the sea kelp. Some of those roots will die but that allows air and water to go deeper so the cycle repeats.
To add on what everyone is saying, have you tried humic acid and sea kelp? Humic acid will stimulate the soil biochemistry and potentially have bacteria help breakup the clay. It will also help your grass intake more nutrients from the ground. The sea kelp will stimulate root growth. With the "softer" soil from the humic, the grass has a better chance at driving roots down. This goes well with aerations as well. I image it as aeration allows air and water to get down to the roots. Humic supercharges this process. Now the roots can grow deeper which can be supercharged by the sea kelp. Some of those roots will die but that allows air and water to go deeper so the cycle repeats.
To add on what everyone is saying, have you tried humic acid and sea kelp? Humic acid will stimulate the soil biochemistry and potentially have bacteria help breakup the clay. It will also help your grass intake more nutrients from the ground. The sea kelp will stimulate root growth. With the "softer" soil from the humic, the grass has a better chance at driving roots down. This goes well with aerations as well. I image it as aeration allows air and water to get down to the roots. Humic supercharges this process. Now the roots can grow deeper which can be supercharged by the sea kelp. Some of those roots will die but that allows air and water to go deeper so the cycle repeats.
Red clay here in Georgia. Different clay, but I lose about 40-50% of mine each year. Been adding compost and it's helped a ton.
Needs a solid 2 inch layer of good soil at the top
I was going to say “TELL ME YOUR WAYS” but then I realized what happened.
Have you done a soil test by chance? I feel you about the clay. We live around Atlanta GA and i recently dug holes for some bushes and i swear i was digging out a primordial layer of decomposed Oompa Loompas. Im talking orange like juice. The lawn has been in since 2006 so its ok. The backyard is different. 6-12 inches down and i hit “bedrock” in the form of para-gneiss. Same rock formations that caused Stone Mountain like 20-30 miles away.
Just start putting compost on top.
Serious question… when did you seed? The roots might not have got deep enough before the summer heat and then eventually died off
https://preview.redd.it/zz8v27dcdayc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b533c4397830f9395a0cc359598910d76dceb015 I have clay also… in NC the same thing happened to me last season
Good question, this was actually two seasons of overseeding. Both in the autumn and spring.
Damn 😫
What seed?
You can dig it out, but clay soil can be improved. For less money than digging it out and replacing the lawn, you could pay for aeration, top dressing sand, liquid compost, seaweed emulsion, fish emulsion. It needs the amount of organic matter in the soil built up to change the soil structure. It takes time. Gypsum is only effective in certain conditions, and it’s for a limited time. This is because of ion exchange.
You could just back fill it with top soil and let the sod grow through. Do it annually till you don’t have to. Clay is ok just not when it’s RIGHT under right the sod
I had clay soil when I moved into my place. I did yearly topdressing with 1/3" of screened compost. My soil is now extremely rich and the lawn looks great too.
Our sod was put in two months ago and it already looks like your 2nd photo 😂
You can aerate and top dress with sand
This in Cedarview in Santry?
No, based in cork.
I went through this 2 summers ago ... Killed all the grass and tilled the crap out of the concrete like clay. Grass roots went maybe 1" into the clay. Watering just resulted in run off. So I spent an entire summer digging out the clay. Added 5" of loam, sand and compost into the loosened clay and resodded. 2 years later I dug out a section and the roots were 8" into the soil. Good luck!
Get some fertilizer with phosphorus in it
This is bleak
Sure is
We just scattered a ton of daikon radish seed in the lawn. We have high phosphorus, so we’re going to yank and compost those for our raised bed garden (and probably eat a couple) and backfill the radish holes with mulch and bloodmeal to add organic matter and nitrogen. If our soil test comes back better next year, we’ll repeat the daikon and leave them in the ground to decompose.
Have you already aerated and top dressed with soil/sand mix?
I've been aerating it a lot and I did two seasons of top dressing. I held off on the sand introduction as a few people said adding the sand to grey clays can compound the issue of impermeability by binding into harder subsoil. I wasn't able to find a definitive answer so I decided not to. It's something I need to reconsider maybe.
Dang. I wonder if this is related to the soil composition then. Perhaps it’s grub damage? I dealt with that last year.
How would I check/diagnose for grub damage?
There’s a trick where you mix soap in water and spread it on the problem spots. Grubs should come out minutes after. https://youtu.be/YFgXPKThd2M?si=2BmuJeZ7LNJxA6NE
Sand is definitely a bad idea when it comes to clays. Compost is a far better option as it promotes the biology in the soil and long-term change.
Sure only if the sand is right on top of clay. Plenty of great results leveling with sand in clay Texas soil.
Ammendment that soil
Don’t give up…keep adding more manure evenly to the lawn as long as you don’t suffocate the grass…
Never seen a concrete wood fence before. Not a fan
How did you defeat it
I don’t get it please explain it looks fantastic
This stuff helped me out https://www.amazon.com/Earth-Right-Super-Enhanced-Conditioner/dp/B07T7Z8PZ6/ref=asc_df_B07T7Z8PZ6/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693713553286&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17971599617044896301&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1017596&hvtargid=pla-904347250076&psc=1&mcid=e876c4a79b2334929dd3fcd01166a1a0&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwudexBhDKARIsAI-GWYU3YcTT9NyBK4I4bUnF8R7EZVBaq7JEDtHo61QKEK4BFkYmrRHjGDAaAtoKEALw_wcB
Did you try biochar over a few seasons?
BioSoil from here.. https://www.windrivermicrobes.com/product#BIOSOIL
It also doesn’t help you seem to be cutting it fairly low. Cutting higher allows the roots to better establish and grow deeper.
Humic. Humic. Humic. It binds with the clay soil and helps break it down.
We grow sod in mostly clay soils in our field. It's a pain but we do get a good harvest able product. There's methods, but definitely hard to grow a lawn on
Couldn't you just top dress with loam and compost and then do a ton of core areation?
Maybe consider tilling in sand and some organics? Maybe some mineral adjustments?
I live in Austin, the soil here is famously like pure clay. We moved into a new house recently and the soil was just completely dried out, cracked; only huge bundles of weeds spread out. Around 1000sqft. First, plan out your sprinklers and set them all up. If you’re using the traditional rotating ones, get the good heavy duty brass ones from home depot. You can probably get away with two, put one in the left corner closest to your house and one in the right corner furthest away (or vice versa). Get a splitter for your faucet, or another hose so you can link the sprinklers together. Hand pull all of the weeds with the roots as best as possible. Do NOT put weed and feed down or spray with any products. I got a D-Shovel and tilled the entire thing 4” down, broke the clay up as best I could as I went along, making sure not to mix it all back in. Try not to step too much all over what you’ve tilled, ie avoid compacting down the soil. This is also your opportunity to dig runs to plant the hoses to your sprinklers underground so they’re out of sight. Put down 2” of top soil mixed with organic composted manure, and about 1” of organic compost (both from home depot, brand called Texas Native). I needed 22 bags of the manure soil and 12 of the compost, Probably cost around $150 total. If you can afford more do another 50% or so of each, I didn’t do this just because I was hand-lugging them back from home depot alone. One bag of Scott’s starter fertilizer, plus two bags of some Bermuda grass seed mix (whatever you need for your sqft). Blended it all together with a bow rake and levelled it as best I could with that. Make sure to start in the far corner and not to step on soil after you’ve done any of this, at all for the next few weeks until it’s grown; else you’ll compact it all down. You want it to stay aerated / good drainage. Keep the soil most for the next few weeks. For me in TX that means watering 4x a day for 3-5 minutes, the most sun-exposed part gets two additional 2 minute waterings per day. 2-4 weeks later, put down another bag of Scott’s starter fertilizer. Grass sprouted very well in about 3 weeks from tilling. It’s not completely full, but even the thin patches have blades coming through slowly. The parts where the sprinklers don’t quite reach as much are growing through slower. Unfortunately, I needed some roof work done shortly after I did all of this and the workers compacted a bunch of the soil down in some areas, which are now the only areas that are struggling to grow. I’m gonna give it some more time but might have to till those areas again. Avoid walking on the soil at all for at least a month. Don’t let any dogs near it either. I’ve kept my dogs indoors for weeks now to give it a chance to grow. Do NOT put down any weed killer, weed and feed, nothing. In about 8 weeks you should fertilize with a good nitrogen-heavy fertilizer. Depending on your grass seed, you should mow it once it’s grown a few inches. Just read the label.
Look up uphill soil wetting agent on Amazon. A wetting agent is essentially a soil loosener and should help loosen it up enough to help the roots some
Fence got shorter
Very nice
You’re Irish, plant a bunch of micro clover! That stuff is great
That first pic is easily 40% clover. It was going so well! Need to restructure the soil somehow first, but I will definitely getting the clover back. Love the stuff
I live in central Texas. I’m going to start using the method of boring out 8”’to 12” deep holes in my yard and backfilling with a few inches of rock with fertilizer, sandy loam, top soil. This will slowly start to replace the clay. Also there are liquid agents you can use to add bio organisms that literally eat clay
Just grass means the biome won’t thrive. Better to plant a garden with a range of plants.
I might get crucified, but might I suggest a garden back there? Will be much more interesting to look at birds and growing plants in that space
Yeah youre not wrong. I'm thinking of raised beds along the shady back section. But it's such a small garden that we want to keep some of it for use with our kid in the summer. Somewhere to sit out and BBQ etc.
Kid will enjoy garden, I've never known a kid who loved grass
Looks like a great place for a garden! Raised beds, hugelkultur, a few tilled row beds. If you do any or a combination of the three, that sod will be a great addition plus some organic material you bring in. Grow some food, plant some clover in between the planting spaces!
Lots of great native. Plants grow good in clay !