AC doesn't use quite as much energy as you might expect (nowhere near what the heater used). I've noticed minimal impact to range when using it. In fact, with us being in 100+ weather, I'll often leave my AC running while I go into stores or wherever I am. So I have a nice, cool car waiting for me.
Of course...your mileage may vary, so to speak.
I'm always confused by this because I'm pretty sure my model has a heatpump... but I assume this is due to the inefficiency that occurs in the cold, exacerbated.
I'm in southern NY though, and although it gets pretty cold, it's never like... -22 C or anything. We're "Freezing" these days if we dip into the minor sub-zeros but not as much as we were before Global Warming kicked things up several notches.
Not strictly true - MY2013 and above have heat pumps but the basic models didn’t. Also my understanding is heating and air con run of the 12v so have not much impact on range. We all know about winter! Yet to try one…
I also believe AC takes lots of power, much more than heating - but that's just intuition, haven't tested (only had my 22 Leaf since Dec) or researched it. AC drains less power than opening windows at higher speed, that makes sense. But in general heating is "easy" since doing any work like turning an axel gives off heat, like it or not.
So cooling the engine is a big deal in an ICE vehicle, isn't cooling an EV battery a similar (though not as much heat ofc) issue? If an ICE's cooling sys isn't keeping up (especially on a hot day) you can turn the AC off and heater on to help get rid of engine heat instead of increasing it (AC drag), but it ain't comfortable. Anyway, would this help a Leaf, or is the heater just an electric heater that's separate from the battery cooling system?
Using LeafSpy, the most I've ever seen the AC draw is a little under 3kW, when I first drive a sunbaked Leaf on a 100°F day, and the cabin is over 120°F. Once the cabin cools to 70° or so after 10 or 15 minutes (I usually drive with the windows open for a few minutes to let the "greenhouse air" escape!), it takes about 800-1000 watts to maintain that temp.
Putting it into a range perspective, assuming you get 4 miles/kWh, 15 minutes of full 3kW AC steals about 4 miles of range, then settles down to 3-4 miles of range/hour. At highway speeds that's a rounding error.
The heater always uses battery power, so you're not going to get rid of motor heat or increase the car's efficiency by turning the heater on!
That's great AC data, thanks! From that I can guess my AC power usage, also reminds me I should get a dongle and run LeafSpy. Also thanks for the useful info on the heater, though disappointing my fear is confirmed.
So I explain my confusion and lack of knowledge and politely ask 2 questions, and get downvoted? I just don't get reddit sometimes.
>That's great AC data, thanks! From that I can guess my AC power usage, also reminds me I should get a dongle and run LeafSpy. Also thanks for the useful info on the heater, though disappointing my fear is confirmed.
Besides the fun geeking out that OBD/LeafSpy offers, it's also practical for reading and clearing DTCs (Diagnostic Trouble Codes). Twice on road trips I've had errors pop up that would've seriously impacted (or ended!) my road trip were I not able to clear them and get back home to deal with the issues later.
>So I explain my confusion and lack of knowledge and politely ask 2 questions, and get downvoted? I just don't get reddit sometimes.
Neither do I, my friend. Just asking a question or making a statement that the Reddit hive mind doesn't like will get you downvoted to hell! 🤷♂️ I enjoy Reddit overall, though, and I don't care about downvotes. For me it's an information exchange, not a popularity contest or a text-based video game to get the highest karma score.
Depending on the year and trim level, a Leaf may have a conventional air conditioner, or a heat pump. The heat pump equipped models are very efficient at cooling, and more efficient at heating. But either method of cooling is more efficient than the resistive electric heaters in all Leafs (the heat pump equipped Leafs also use the heat pump for more efficient heating, but still come with resistive heating elements for extremely cold weather).
The Leaf has no active battery cooling system at all, the battery is air cooled. There is no interconnection whatsoever between the battery and the cabin heating / cooling system. But, EV batteries don't get even remotely as hot as a combustion engine, there would be zero benefit to linking the systems in that way even if it were possible.
It’s irritated me since day one, I was so hyped when they released the refresh and I couldn’t believe that they didn’t add even air cooling. The Prius has had active air cooling since gen 1. Whichever engineers died on that hill for Nissan should be ashamed.
Running the AC draws considerably less energy than you might think. I was surprised. It's not that it draws "no" power. But there have been zero times in my four years of Leaf ownership where I've turned off the AC because I was worried about range.
Research it. All modern A/C already uses heat pump magic, which is a "physics cheat code". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVLLNjSLJTQ
Yes, an A/C **is a heat pump**. The fact that literally no one in 80 years has bothered to add a ten dollar reversing valve to let them heat also, is sheer madness. You will never look at an air conditioner again without clenching your fists and going "Whyyyyy?"
So the "non heat pump" cars (technically untrue) are paying for their heat The Hard Way, at 3.41 BTUs per watt-hour.
If you have it on auto it will initially use recirc but then switch to outside air when the cabin is cool.
If you manually select recirc it stays there.
If you want a mix of you press and hold recirc until it flashes it will change to 70pc recirc, 30pc outside. But in general it is more efficient to keep the air in the cabin cool then heat outside air.
Yes, that's exactly why 1-hose portables are so heinous for efficiency, they are pulling in outside air (by way of ejecting conditioned air), and that means they must start again from scratch removing humidity and temperature.
If you recirculate, you only need to contend with 250 BTU/hr or so per sedentary human, and 1000 BTU per pound of water they exhale or sweat.
https://preview.redd.it/8zaf4pkgf39d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=856b2e4966493d2be536ed2281f21437f666cb4e
To be fair they are kind of opposite problems. Portable ACs work in recirc mode (pull in cool air from room, cool it more) but because they suck in cool air from the room for the exhaust you're blowing out conditioned air and creating negative pressure to suck in warm outside air through doors etc.
The Leaf uses external air to cool the condenser but if pulling warm external air over the evaporator and creating positive pressure in the car, so your conditioned air is forced out.
You can make a one hose portable air con much more efficient as long as it has separate air intakes by sellotaping a cardboard box over the exhaust intake and putting a second air hose to it. Then put both of those hoses outside. That way you are using external air to remove heat and not creating negative pressure. Only disadvantage vs a split system is you have the waste heat from the conditioner itself inside or outside.
With this we can keep our entire downstairs about six degrees below outside temperature with one old 9,000 BTU portable air con.
Yeah, I've seen that hack. [The word on 1-hose portables](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-mBeYC2KGc) seems to be getting out (also: EPA is hanging a lampshade on it by making them state a more practical BTU alongside their paper BTU claim). So we're seeing increasing number of 2-hose, including with concentric hoses so they have the aesthetic of 1-hose.
Just watch the efficiency of those older units, I once tried to use an older and yellowed portable at a site with casement windows, and it was a complete disaster. But we had a very small 5000 BTU window unit someone had paid $99 for, that turns out was an inch narrower than the casement! So I did some light carpentry to make a safe platform for it, point is, that little thing Just Wrecked the portable. Night and day, and it was pulling like 450 watts.
Right! Look at the feedback the car gives you in the EV screens and play with the estimates. I've seen A/C on or off changes the estimate by maybe a couple of miles of range. Not enough to make it worth being miserable.
I live in the UK. That helps.
If you're driving under 30 then windows down is better than AC I believe for energy use.
Over that then there's more drag from the windows than you get from the AC use ?
I drive 40 miles back and forth to work in Phoenix, on the 10 and 17, 80mph cruise controlled with AC at full blast the whole way in my 2015 on 20” wheels. It’s really not that bad, I can go just charging at work but I’ll top it up to 80% at the fast charger on my way home just in case the family wants to go somewhere.
I agree with all of the other "just use the AC" comments, but wanted to add something. If you can open your windows even a little like 20-30 minutes before you intend to leave, your interior will be noticeably cooler when you get in and the AC won't have to do so much work.
(Make sure it won't rain if you do this.)
First thing I did with my all black interior was place sheepskin seat covers, a natural light color. Folks, including my kids, have laughed at me, not understanding why.
A young lady at the car wash told me she thought they were nifty. Not her exact word, but you get the idea.
All the fitted seat covers are some man-made HOT stretchy stuff that does not help me stay cool.
The sheepskin are cool in summer and warm in winter and hide the black seats!
Downside of seat covers in a Leaf: No underside to the seat for the bottom fasteners, so they just sit on the side. Tip and back fasteners work well.
Where I live is frequently 100 F much of the summer. Black cars and black interiors are horrid in this climate.
So if your issue is the car overheating during the summer months you can do what I did and get a car cover for when it's parked.
I bought a pretty cheap "Titan" cover from Amazon that fits my LEAF. I place it on when the car is in the parking lot, and it keeps the car at the ambient temperature or below (whatever "Shade") is.
On the hot days though? Man it is a warm cover to remove XD
Also keep in mind that not using the A/C will cause it to fail over time as the system lubricates the seals when in operation. Failing to operate the system causes the seals to dry/shrink and the gas will leak leading to potentially expensive repairs.
I did use it at least once a month in my previous ICE: the airco broke anyway 🤦♂️ Now I don't care to much about it anymore, but would use it whenever needed.
AC doesn't use quite as much energy as you might expect (nowhere near what the heater used). I've noticed minimal impact to range when using it. In fact, with us being in 100+ weather, I'll often leave my AC running while I go into stores or wherever I am. So I have a nice, cool car waiting for me. Of course...your mileage may vary, so to speak.
I'm always confused by this because I'm pretty sure my model has a heatpump... but I assume this is due to the inefficiency that occurs in the cold, exacerbated. I'm in southern NY though, and although it gets pretty cold, it's never like... -22 C or anything. We're "Freezing" these days if we dip into the minor sub-zeros but not as much as we were before Global Warming kicked things up several notches.
I have a 2016. It's the last year they came without heat pumps. So, just a straight heater for me.
My 2017 S has a PTC heater (no heat pump).
Not strictly true - MY2013 and above have heat pumps but the basic models didn’t. Also my understanding is heating and air con run of the 12v so have not much impact on range. We all know about winter! Yet to try one…
I love leaving it on if I have a short errand to do - also saves a duty cycle on the compressor
I also believe AC takes lots of power, much more than heating - but that's just intuition, haven't tested (only had my 22 Leaf since Dec) or researched it. AC drains less power than opening windows at higher speed, that makes sense. But in general heating is "easy" since doing any work like turning an axel gives off heat, like it or not. So cooling the engine is a big deal in an ICE vehicle, isn't cooling an EV battery a similar (though not as much heat ofc) issue? If an ICE's cooling sys isn't keeping up (especially on a hot day) you can turn the AC off and heater on to help get rid of engine heat instead of increasing it (AC drag), but it ain't comfortable. Anyway, would this help a Leaf, or is the heater just an electric heater that's separate from the battery cooling system?
Using LeafSpy, the most I've ever seen the AC draw is a little under 3kW, when I first drive a sunbaked Leaf on a 100°F day, and the cabin is over 120°F. Once the cabin cools to 70° or so after 10 or 15 minutes (I usually drive with the windows open for a few minutes to let the "greenhouse air" escape!), it takes about 800-1000 watts to maintain that temp. Putting it into a range perspective, assuming you get 4 miles/kWh, 15 minutes of full 3kW AC steals about 4 miles of range, then settles down to 3-4 miles of range/hour. At highway speeds that's a rounding error. The heater always uses battery power, so you're not going to get rid of motor heat or increase the car's efficiency by turning the heater on!
That's great AC data, thanks! From that I can guess my AC power usage, also reminds me I should get a dongle and run LeafSpy. Also thanks for the useful info on the heater, though disappointing my fear is confirmed. So I explain my confusion and lack of knowledge and politely ask 2 questions, and get downvoted? I just don't get reddit sometimes.
>That's great AC data, thanks! From that I can guess my AC power usage, also reminds me I should get a dongle and run LeafSpy. Also thanks for the useful info on the heater, though disappointing my fear is confirmed. Besides the fun geeking out that OBD/LeafSpy offers, it's also practical for reading and clearing DTCs (Diagnostic Trouble Codes). Twice on road trips I've had errors pop up that would've seriously impacted (or ended!) my road trip were I not able to clear them and get back home to deal with the issues later. >So I explain my confusion and lack of knowledge and politely ask 2 questions, and get downvoted? I just don't get reddit sometimes. Neither do I, my friend. Just asking a question or making a statement that the Reddit hive mind doesn't like will get you downvoted to hell! 🤷♂️ I enjoy Reddit overall, though, and I don't care about downvotes. For me it's an information exchange, not a popularity contest or a text-based video game to get the highest karma score.
Depending on the year and trim level, a Leaf may have a conventional air conditioner, or a heat pump. The heat pump equipped models are very efficient at cooling, and more efficient at heating. But either method of cooling is more efficient than the resistive electric heaters in all Leafs (the heat pump equipped Leafs also use the heat pump for more efficient heating, but still come with resistive heating elements for extremely cold weather). The Leaf has no active battery cooling system at all, the battery is air cooled. There is no interconnection whatsoever between the battery and the cabin heating / cooling system. But, EV batteries don't get even remotely as hot as a combustion engine, there would be zero benefit to linking the systems in that way even if it were possible.
What battery cooling system? It’s a Leaf, they have absolutely zero battery cooling.
It's the main flaw in the Leaf and one that I cannot believe they didn't rectify in later models.
It’s irritated me since day one, I was so hyped when they released the refresh and I couldn’t believe that they didn’t add even air cooling. The Prius has had active air cooling since gen 1. Whichever engineers died on that hill for Nissan should be ashamed.
Running the AC draws considerably less energy than you might think. I was surprised. It's not that it draws "no" power. But there have been zero times in my four years of Leaf ownership where I've turned off the AC because I was worried about range.
Research it. All modern A/C already uses heat pump magic, which is a "physics cheat code". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVLLNjSLJTQ Yes, an A/C **is a heat pump**. The fact that literally no one in 80 years has bothered to add a ten dollar reversing valve to let them heat also, is sheer madness. You will never look at an air conditioner again without clenching your fists and going "Whyyyyy?" So the "non heat pump" cars (technically untrue) are paying for their heat The Hard Way, at 3.41 BTUs per watt-hour.
Open the windows. Or have air con on but on recirc, it uses very little energy that way.
You mean that it uses the air from the outside? Or inside the car? Because of the automatic settings, keep recirculating the air from the car inside.
If you have it on auto it will initially use recirc but then switch to outside air when the cabin is cool. If you manually select recirc it stays there. If you want a mix of you press and hold recirc until it flashes it will change to 70pc recirc, 30pc outside. But in general it is more efficient to keep the air in the cabin cool then heat outside air.
Yes, that's exactly why 1-hose portables are so heinous for efficiency, they are pulling in outside air (by way of ejecting conditioned air), and that means they must start again from scratch removing humidity and temperature. If you recirculate, you only need to contend with 250 BTU/hr or so per sedentary human, and 1000 BTU per pound of water they exhale or sweat.
https://preview.redd.it/8zaf4pkgf39d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=856b2e4966493d2be536ed2281f21437f666cb4e To be fair they are kind of opposite problems. Portable ACs work in recirc mode (pull in cool air from room, cool it more) but because they suck in cool air from the room for the exhaust you're blowing out conditioned air and creating negative pressure to suck in warm outside air through doors etc. The Leaf uses external air to cool the condenser but if pulling warm external air over the evaporator and creating positive pressure in the car, so your conditioned air is forced out. You can make a one hose portable air con much more efficient as long as it has separate air intakes by sellotaping a cardboard box over the exhaust intake and putting a second air hose to it. Then put both of those hoses outside. That way you are using external air to remove heat and not creating negative pressure. Only disadvantage vs a split system is you have the waste heat from the conditioner itself inside or outside. With this we can keep our entire downstairs about six degrees below outside temperature with one old 9,000 BTU portable air con.
Yeah, I've seen that hack. [The word on 1-hose portables](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-mBeYC2KGc) seems to be getting out (also: EPA is hanging a lampshade on it by making them state a more practical BTU alongside their paper BTU claim). So we're seeing increasing number of 2-hose, including with concentric hoses so they have the aesthetic of 1-hose. Just watch the efficiency of those older units, I once tried to use an older and yellowed portable at a site with casement windows, and it was a complete disaster. But we had a very small 5000 BTU window unit someone had paid $99 for, that turns out was an inch narrower than the casement! So I did some light carpentry to make a safe platform for it, point is, that little thing Just Wrecked the portable. Night and day, and it was pulling like 450 watts.
Just use the AC. It doesn’t use that much range. Driving without it is a nightmare in any car. Unless you want to feel like fried chicken.
Right! Look at the feedback the car gives you in the EV screens and play with the estimates. I've seen A/C on or off changes the estimate by maybe a couple of miles of range. Not enough to make it worth being miserable.
Not to mention safety. A fried brain doesn’t function as well.
>What do you guys do? I run the AC... obviously...
No offence but you're being ridiculous. Run the AC.
I live in the UK. That helps. If you're driving under 30 then windows down is better than AC I believe for energy use. Over that then there's more drag from the windows than you get from the AC use ?
Time to move out of California. Yeah I drive 25mph for 90% of my commute and 35 for the last 10%. Not very far or fast.
I drive 40 miles back and forth to work in Phoenix, on the 10 and 17, 80mph cruise controlled with AC at full blast the whole way in my 2015 on 20” wheels. It’s really not that bad, I can go just charging at work but I’ll top it up to 80% at the fast charger on my way home just in case the family wants to go somewhere.
Yeah, close enough.
How about a cooling pad/mat that you can put in your car on the seat and plug into the USB?
I don't know what your college major is in, but I'm guessing not thermodynamics :)
Art! 🤪
I agree with all of the other "just use the AC" comments, but wanted to add something. If you can open your windows even a little like 20-30 minutes before you intend to leave, your interior will be noticeably cooler when you get in and the AC won't have to do so much work. (Make sure it won't rain if you do this.)
I used to do this in my driveway, but do you know how hard it is to get yellow pollen off the black Leaf fabric? 😁
Yes, that does sound difficult. Luckily, my pollen seasons and hot season do not have much overlap.
First thing I did with my all black interior was place sheepskin seat covers, a natural light color. Folks, including my kids, have laughed at me, not understanding why. A young lady at the car wash told me she thought they were nifty. Not her exact word, but you get the idea. All the fitted seat covers are some man-made HOT stretchy stuff that does not help me stay cool. The sheepskin are cool in summer and warm in winter and hide the black seats! Downside of seat covers in a Leaf: No underside to the seat for the bottom fasteners, so they just sit on the side. Tip and back fasteners work well. Where I live is frequently 100 F much of the summer. Black cars and black interiors are horrid in this climate.
I run the AC full blast and it only has a 1-2% affect on my 20ish mile daily commute. Just use the AC, your car is meant to be enjoyed.
So if your issue is the car overheating during the summer months you can do what I did and get a car cover for when it's parked. I bought a pretty cheap "Titan" cover from Amazon that fits my LEAF. I place it on when the car is in the parking lot, and it keeps the car at the ambient temperature or below (whatever "Shade") is. On the hot days though? Man it is a warm cover to remove XD
My car doesn't overheat, I just want my interior to be cooler than the outside.
The cover may work well for when you're parked, at least. That's my solution.
Having it on auto, usually. Summer times usually roll down my window and lean my hand out
I have a 2015, is it normal for the AC to be kinda loud? Maybe the car is just that quiet it stands out.
No??? I hear nothing but air from inside, and even outside, you should barely hear anything.
I survive summer with a lot of air conditioning and heavy window tint (5% on the back and 10% on the front windows)
Also keep in mind that not using the A/C will cause it to fail over time as the system lubricates the seals when in operation. Failing to operate the system causes the seals to dry/shrink and the gas will leak leading to potentially expensive repairs.
I did use it at least once a month in my previous ICE: the airco broke anyway 🤦♂️ Now I don't care to much about it anymore, but would use it whenever needed.
It's not that I NEVER use it, but I do time to time. Thanks for bringing attention to this, I'll be careful.