Sammy’s save % through games 1, 2, 3, 7, and periods 1 & 2 of game 4: .883
Woll’s save % through the 3rd in game 4 + game 5 & 6: .964
Worth noting Sammy stepped up with a .938 in game 7 and the Leafs *really should have been able to score more than 1 goal that game* — but he definitely hurt more than he helped at the start of the series. Woll should’ve been in after game 1. I fully understand that you don’t just pull your #1 after one bad game in the playoffs, but if Woll got the nod earlier I guarantee we’d have played Florida tonight.
It is also true that Woll had struggled late in the season and got hurt after playing 2 playoff games. It was likely a question of starting Woll at 60% healthy vs sammy at near 100% healthy
The more important metric IMO is goals saved above expected (even though xG isn't perfect), and Sammy was at -0.8 for the series - not great, but shows you he's really letting in only 1 more than he should have given the quality of chances the Bruins had
And Swayman of course is at 13.2 (though that includes the Florida game). So it cuts both ways. Sammy probably isn't good enough, and our forwards are dog doo doo, but Swayman is fucking nuts
I don't usually dig into x stats - does that Swayman stopped 13.2 Leafs shots that 'should' have been goals (minus whatever he stopped against Florida)?
Jfc. I still think the Leafs need a bit of a shakeup but what do you do sometimes
Sorry, your budgeting does not allow for .950 across a series. It should allow for goals.
50Million on forwards and 3mill on samsonov and you’re blaming the goalie for losing while allowing 1 goal in regulation.
Oettinger makes 4M. Ullmark/Saros make 5M and the guy that killed the Leafs makes 3.4M. Its nothing to do with how much Auston Matthews makes ffs. They just sign shitty goalies. Fucken Matt Murray? How much did he make? Jack Campbell? Freddy Andersen?
The guy that killed the leafs?? Your coach and defenseman couldn’t stop one of the best goal scorers in the league from coming in on him with speed in OT on a Set friggen play that your coaches should have prepped them on! Leaving him all alone to shoulder the blame and the loss.
He got you to OT with just 1 goal, despite being screened by dmen all game who couldn’t apply pressure if someone was bleeding out.
Ffs. Even when you got sub 2.00 GA you guys blame the goalie. You left him out to dry.
I agree with you in the sense that it’s not his fault entirely but he has a tendency to play well and turn around and let in a muffin. Tying goal should not have gone in. Look how far back he is in his net on that goal. Brutal. And let’s not forget he’s part of the reason leafs were down 3-1 in the first place.
Yeah okay. Samsonov had an.896 sv% and Swayman had a .950 sv% but it definitely has nothing to do with goaltending. Bruins lost both games that Joseph Woll played. Co-incidence? Sure.
> We've never had .950 across a series. Happens to us every year lol
Why are you talking about shit that you have no fucking clue about? Here's the series everyone cried about getting goalied by Carey Price despite Campbell having better numbers (near .950) for the series.
https://www.hockey-reference.com/playoffs/2021-montreal-canadiens-vs-toronto-maple-leafs-first-round.html
The Leafs don't lose because they get goalied. They have frequently had as good or better goaltending in a series, yet still managed to lose. They lose because they play just well enough to lose. No matter who they play, the most effort they can muster is equal to their opposition, and then they can't match them when everything is on the line. That's why 6/7 of their first round series the last 7 years have gone the maximum number of games regardless of competition. Blue Jackets? Fuck it, 5/5 games. Montreal? Fuck it, 7/7 games. Boston? Fuck it, 7/7 games. Doesn't matter who they play. They can't just fucking play to their maximum ability, and that's why they'll never win a cup with this core.
I think it’s more plausible that the leafs made that many goalies look good instead of facing the best goalie in NHL history every year. Sure they are good but the leafs have the best goal scorer in the league so it should counter that.
Which is annoying because that’s what they did to beat Tampa last year. So many of the goals we did score were tipped it felt like to shots through traffic.
That was in large part because Vasy is weirdly weak against shots from distance. It was mentioned by another coach on the broadcast during that series.
It's like they feel they have to make the pretty goals, when garbage goals win games in the playoffs. Look at the one series win against Tampa. Wasn't even a shot on net, a pass through the crease off a Tampa players skate.
100% agree with this, especially on the PP. team does not have a legitimate threat/shot from the point. This allows goalies to hone in on fewer threats.
HOW is this the takeaway when Sammy bailed out the leafs in game 6 against the TBL to win their first series in 2 decades? Sammy then allowed 1 goal through regulation in game 7 this year, AND when you take into account the format of how this team is setup (40-50 mil to 4 forwards) and then hear that they have scored 2 goals or less in 13 of their last 14 playoff games.. it’s baffling to me how the conversation STARTS with goaltending and not the myriad of other reasons the leafs lost, the past two years especially..
I wasn't clear, I'm not blaming our goaltending. I was commenting on how we get "goalied" every year which is statistically very unlikely, really we don't know how to score playoff goals.
Woll does have a crazy high save % for his playoff games tbf.
Not excusing the leafs but they have lost to Price, Vasy, Bobrovsky and Swayman in recent years. That’s an unusually high level of goaltending compared to other round 1’s.
I don’t know how we’d get on against everyone but I’d fancy us to have scored more on Skinner, Lindgren, Talbot, Andersen etc.
Fun fact, other than columbus (who still put up a 950 against us), every goalie the leafs have lost to going back to 2013 was a vezina winner. Except Swayman, who the Bs started in front of a vezina winner.
Yeah, it’s somewhat unlucky. Where I don’t have sympathy is that this team could win the division if they turned up all year and that might get you a better matchup. Yes, it’s likely to be one of Florida, Tampa or Boston but it could be also be a metro crossover.
The fact that we have one division title during this era and that when it was the Canadian division is a factor.
* In 2017-2018 they were 3rd in the division and 5th in the league.
* In 2018-2019 they were 3rd in the division and 7th in the league.
* In 2020-2021 they were 1st in the division and in a big tie for 5th in the league (Canadian division).
* In 2021-2022 they were 2nd in the division and 4th in the league.
* In 2022-2023 they were 2nd in the division and 5th in the league.
* In 2023-2024 they were 3rd in the division and 10th in the league.
tl;dr: The Atlantic is, generally speaking, cracked.
When you have half the cap tied up by 4 guys, it doesn't leave much to spend on the other 16 guys on the team.
We also had a good goalie, but we traded him away to the team that constantly beats us.
Unfortunately Woll is too fragile. Additionally his body of work is not enough to suggest he’s a legit number one. Certainly no where near the level of Potvin, Cujo and Belfour.
In a bubble you can say they lost a close series. Like the series Vegas just lost? That is a close series, you move on from that.
But you have to judge this group cumulatively:
9 playoff series in 8 years. 6 of them went to a Game 7 (Game 5 for Columbus which was the same thing). They've showed zero growth in 8 years of playoffs. Sorry, but it's time to end the era. Six years ago, we came back from 3-1 down vs the Bruins as well, lead in the third period and also lost. There has been zero growth in that time frame. They're not going to suddenly shift gears for real in Year 9. Edmonton was swept by the Jets in 2021, they've learned from that. Colorado lost to Vegas in 2021, they've leaarned from that and won the Cup the following season. Vegas lost to Montreal in 2021, they won the Cup in 2023. Tampa got swept by Columbus in 2019, they went to three consecutive finals. Florida was swept by Tampa in 2022, went to the finals the year after.
The lesson for this team should have been the 2021 Habs series and they learned nothing from it.
I feel like with Price, Vasilevskiy, Bobrovsky and Swayman they’ve face some of the best goalies in the playoffs in different seasons (Bob last year not Vasy).
Yup. Tons of their goals are from the perimeter, set plays etc. these things don’t run in the playoffs, especially in our division. If we were rinsing through a softer division then *maybe* we could play our normal style. I remember the Amazon series following the leafs blowing the 3-1 lead against Montreal, and iirc Jumbo Joe talked about the playoffs being all about the “dirty goals”. Look at Knies’ OT winner. Those are the kinds of goals they needed and they rarely got. They float shots in from the blue line or the top of the circle. Sure, sometimes those go in (Edmundson in game 6/7?), but when you’re playing a top tier goalie those shots are rarely ever going to go in. You’re not gonna beat Swayman 1v1 99/100 times. You need rebounds, crashing, etc. just didn’t have it
the problem is they are good enough to go ahead in alot of their past series but can’t close out. I don’t know if that really comes down to just getting goalie-d. They were good enough to go up 3-1 against montreal then suddenly had no answer for price? Comes down to the mental makeup and coaching imo
That’s the obvious one that stands out as a bad goalie they’ve not scored on. However, people kind of forget that we weren’t great most of that year. Even making the playoffs was in doubt which is why we were playing in a play in round.
That's fair. But let's not also forget that we blew a 3-goal lead (!) to lose game 3...and then, staring down elimination in game 4, came back from our own late (4 minutes to go!) 3-goal deficit to tie it (via goals from Nylander, Tavares, and Hyman) and win in OT courtesy of Matthews, (with 3 secondary assists from Marner)...only to then lose the clincher in dispiriting fashion, 3-0.
So in that case, Keefe's desperation ploy of putting all the top guns out there to claw back worked...one time.
My point is, I kind of hate the excuse about getting goalied. The whole point of having 4 premier scorers is that if one isn't going, the others can take up the slack. The aim of the game is to outscore your opponent. You shouldn't be relying on plugs like Liam Foudy or Nick Paul to be the scorers and pot the goals that decide a series and fuel a Cup run. Your aces have to come up aces.
To me, the body of evidence points to this core, or this team, or this franchise, lacking the playoff gene to come up big when it matters most. Is it the culture of the club in this city manifesting capitalism and stifling clutch performances?
I just think its interesting because much of the talking heads said whoever won our series would get clapped by Florida. Having watched every minute of it, Swayman could carry that team for a couple more series if he keeps playing like that IMO. Not making excuses for the Leafs.
They won 3 and lost 4 against the hottest goalie in the league while missing our 2 best goal scores for massive portions of the series.
Edit; while the power play was already in cancun
It came down to a bounce in OT, they played well enough to win. It’s unfortunate, and I’m not defending the early series of poor play, but they also weren’t getting goal tending early in the series the way they were later. Swayman is probably the best player in the playoffs so far. It happens.
Florida hasn't played since April 29th. There's a fine line between rested and rusty in the playoffs - especially for streaky goalies like Bob. While Boston may not get blown out, winning game 1 in that type of situation doesn't mean much in my eyes.
Florida hasn't played since April 29th. There's a fine line between rested and rusty in the playoffs - especially for streaky goalies like Bob. While Boston may not get blown out, winning game 1 in that type of situation doesn't mean much in my eyes.
Florida hasn't played since April 29th. There's a fine line between rested and rusty in the playoffs - especially for streaky goalies like Bob. While Boston may not get blown out, winning game 1 in that type of situation doesn't mean much in my eyes.
The easiest way to tell, imagine the teams switch goalies and ask yourself who wins the series. This year if leafs were shooting on Sammy and we had Sway, it’d be leafs in 5.
Wow same excuses every year
Leafs ran into a hot goalie
But what stat you cant escape is that leafs have averaged nearly 4 goals a game during the season but only averaged 1.5 something goals in the playoffs
Each year 2-3 of the core doesn't step up and leafs lose. And because they take up so much the cap leafs dont have enough depth to make up for stars faluires
I wonder what the goals for average against great goalies is then. The regular season average would include all the games we ran up the score against the poor ones.
Swayman currently has the 2nd best SV% *of all time* in a postseason
Swayman has 1.95GSAx/60.
2023 highest was 1.235 by Shesterkin
2022 highest was 0.934 by Shesterkin
2021 highest was 1.149 by Vasy
2020 highest was 0.951 by Price
2019 highest was 0.551 by Rask
2018 highest was 0.412 by MAF
2017 highest was 0.747 by Allen
2016 highest was 0.731 by Bishop
2015 highest was 0.774 by Holtby
2014 highest was 0.443 by Lundquist
2013 highest was 0.737 by Quick
2012 highest was 1.046 by Smith
2011 highest was 0.820 by Miller
2010 highest was 0.474 by Halak
2009 highest was 1.183 by Hiller
(Minimum 7GP)
The team is built on superstar offensive forwards first, defense and goaltending last... Not enough goals from those superstars (for whatever reasons). It wouldn't be fair to blame anyone else.
show me the playoff stats of these supposed ‘superstars’. go back as far as you like, 2017 even.
a team 1/21 on powerplay, objectively has no ‘offensive superstars’.
Leafs have some very expensive and very average playoff forwards, but no ‘superstars’.
Piss off with the “goalied” narrative. Such a BS excuse.
Oh Carey Price goalied us. Then Bobrovski goalied us. Then Swayman goalied us.
No. We didn’t get goalied, we failed to adjust and crumbled on special teams. PERIOD. Because, like you asked, we suck.
Leafs were a far better team (outside game 4 and minus the powerplay) this series then most people will give them credit for. This Boston team was also good enough to be near the top 5 in the league regular season.
Unfortunately it doesn't matter anymore because moral victories are not worth anything but this could have been on you forgive if the Leaf's had a cup and some 3rd round exits this decade.
Good teams have good goalies, not many teams make it this far without a stud between the pipes. Gotta find a way to figure them out though, leafs get paid very well to do that and they have failed.
They fucking suck dude. Feel free to watch their powerplay entry attempts and tell me this is a good team. Watch them just allow pasta to score a hilariously and easy goal and tell me they're a good team. This team needs to be nuked from space.
It also shows that three 11M+ forwards (four starting next year) doesn't trump good goaltending.
We're going to run into good goaltending, a Vezina winner, etc every single playoffs. If our current formula can't beat that, then we need to change the formula. We can't complain about getting goalied every single year. Also, the best way to score against a hot goalie is traffic in front of the net, tipped shots, rebounds, etc, and this team hasn't been good at crashing the net during this entire era - again, an issue with the formula.
Leafs didn’t do some things right that they needed to, but Sway has undoubtedly been the best goalie in the entire playoffs so far. Kind of a bit of column A, bit of column B.
For the 10,000th time.
The playoffs are full of good goalies. To win the cup, you have to play against a team or 4 with a good goalie
If you lose every time you play against a good goalie, your team is not good enough to win a cup.
They’re full of good goalies, yet in 2021, 2022, 2023 (second round) and 2024 the goalies we faced were literally the best statistical goalies of that playoff.
Yes the team needs change, they’re flawed. They also have bad luck, and aren’t constructed well enough to overcome the luck.
>in 2021, 2022, 2023 (second round) and 2024 the goalies we faced were literally the best statistical goalies of that playoff
Remember that saying? If everyone you meet is an asshole, you're probably the asshole.
Same idea, were the commmon denominator. If every goalie you meet is great, you probably just suck.
Swayman and Ullmark is maybe the best goalie duo of the post expansion era, in some fairness
They've saved 109 goals above average in 3 seasons together, Roloson Fernandez was a bit under 100 in four seasons together
I think having some high scorers out with injuries, playing injured and underwhelming was the perfect storm, ultimately
Jesus Christ get on from it.
This is on par with those posts that complain before the game even starts that the referees are born geographically closer to there opponent then Toronto.
It’s been how long with the same core players failing? There’s literally a common denominator in all of these equations.
Every single loss this team faces, regardless if it’s regular season or playoffs, this sub has the same 2 excuses.
“The refs!!”
“Every goalie plays above there head against us!!”
Leafs have truly bad luck, it's not like they're getting trounced in round 1 by nobody. They get beaten every year by a team that goes to the finals.
2023 - lose to Florida, Panthers make the final.
2022 - lose to Tampa, Lightning make the final.
2021 - lose to Montreal, Canadiens make the final.
2020 - lost qualifying round to Columbus. Blue jackets lose round 1 series.
2019 - lose to Boston, Bruins make the final.
So we'll see, but I expect Swayman to be the story of the playoffs and the Bruins to make the final.
Swayman…..He thought he was going to be a Leaf! Met with them several times before the 2017 Draft. Instead at pick #110, they chose Ian Scott (who quit hockey at age 23), and then with pick #111, the Bruins picked Jeremy Swayman.
Just like Tuukka Rask, another good goalie got away from Toronto and went to the Bruins!!
We can debate goalies all we want but the truth is it’s a combination of things. Got out coached, out played, showed true grit when it was too late.
They should have made the right moves years ago. But they banked their faith in a bunch of high profile players, and a coach and coaching staff that’s mediocre at most and now this is the price we’re paying.
The Leafs don't suck. Never have. What they require is a slightly different make up. 1 new coaching 2. A more even distribution of money across the roster. Either this offseason with a Marner move or next offseason with JT or both JT and Marner off the books
Made a few bucks on it tonight. You knew Swayman is going on a run because every year - and you knew after a series of low scoring, this game was hitting the over
I'd have to wonder out of those 39 shots, how many were actually high danger shots. Like if the Leafs acquired him somehow, he'd probably turn into Andrew Raycroft. It's always easier to play against the Leafs than for them.
4 times now, the team that beats the Leafs goes on to the cup finals. Wouldnt be shocked if the Bruins made the SCF again and Shanahan says "well we managed to push the Stanley cup finalists to 7, we're almost there!"
I think there’s an issue with spending half the cap on 4 guys AND the Leafs have had some incredibly bad luck (red-hot goalies, injuries, always facing a team that goes on to eliminate 2 or 3 more teams, etc.)
I think that if either one of those things is changed, the outcome is different. ESPECIALLY in this series against Boston where they literally lost by a single shot. Most of their eliminations games have been crazy close too.
That is the point though, right? You can make adjustments to the makeup of your team, not the luck you get.
Now, hockey is a pain in the ass, and the best team doesn’t always win. In fact, the best team doesn’t win far more frequently in hockey than any other major N. American sport. The Leafs could build the best team in history and still get bounced in the first round. But, you control what you can, create the best possible situation, and then test your luck.
It will be interesting to see the rest of the 2nd round and whether the Bruins and their goalie can keep that level of play going.
It’ll all be academic though. The Leafs have improvements that can be made. That’s all they can do.
I’m reasonably optimistic. I can see some paths to some real improvement. We’ll just have to see how well Treliving can work it.
I was listening to the fan 590 and they were talking about goalies that steal games and the importance of having a goalie come through when the rest of the team is struggling. All Stanley Cup teams have had a goalie steal games and even series,we don’t have that
Yes they are but they are not learning from all these previous beat downs...you need a number 1 goalie. Wake up its only been 2 decades since your last solid goalie.
They truly suck.
Tavares will grind out his own goal. The other 3 are opportunistic only. If you limit the opportunities, they just wander around looking good for 60 min and only a few points in like 15 playoff games.
I think both can be true? The Leafs sucked against Boston and didn’t deserve to win the series. But if Jeremy Swayman wasn’t in net they would have. Swayman won Boston that series and he won them that game last night too. Although Boston scoring 5 certainly helped lol.
I think swayman looks good because Boston plays strong team defence. They boxed out our forwards from having high danger chances. Montreal and Florida did the same.
Leafs are paying too much to guys who don't produce in the playoffs to afford solid goaltending. That is the difference between us and every other contending team.
The three goalies in the division in the playoffs are Bob, Vasy, Swayman ... those guys aren't going anywhere. So long as the divisions don't change, the Leafs are facing one of those guys in the playoffs.
I think they just do a bad job of making the goalie's job hell in the playoffs. Not enough screening, getting on rebounds, shots from the slot. Save percentages will go up if it's all wrist shots from the outside. Credit to boston for controlling the crease.
There is a common denominator with all these ‘hot goalies’ the leafs face
They’re playing the playoff leafs, more dump and chase and less high danger opportunities
Keefe said it, they beat themselves…
I promise you it’s not a ‘hot goalie’
Are some goalies having good rounds against us? Sure but again the common denominator is playoff leafs
We need a goalie that is consistent and durable. We need defence that can move the puck and defend, not one or the other. Play your planned playoff system from day one not start at game 82. Get your lines figured out early in the season to build chemistry and not shuffle lines 20x a game. Plan for a long run rest your stars no matter what with 10 games to go in the season.
Even with Swayman playing so well, the Leafs were the better team in much of this series and should have won it. That’s the depressing part of it all. I get the PP argument, the fact that the Leafs weren’t scoring, etc. But that happens sometimes when another team shuts you down. Gotta grind it out.
And the Leafs would’ve done that, and won the series, if not for Samsonov. Woll plays from even game two on and the Leafs take this series.
So as much as I hate the idea of running it back, I kinda get it this time. And now that a few days have passed, I wouldn’t be too upset with doing that. Although I do think Keefe has to go, as need a change there. He’s had too many chances to fix major issues like the PP. And his instincts are crap. It was crazy obvious after game one that Samsonov hadn’t earned the right to start game two. Yet there he was. And then Keefe gives him game four as well. Just idiotic decisions.
Wash rinse and repeat, it’s the same story every fucking year, we get embarrassed by a team, 9 times out of 10 in a winner takes all type game, that team goes on a deep playoff run, makes the finals and everyone goes “ah but what can you do? They went to the finals, had a fantastic goalie, were so unlucky with our matchups” and I’m tired of it, Swayman played great, without a doubt all the credit to him, dude is probably going to drag that team to the finals, but the Leafs shouldn’t be getting goalied, our lowest paid core player makes double of Swayman, if they can’t figure out a way to score then what the fuck is the money for? Why not put that money into a Swayman?
The goalie they picked had a stellar junior career and was an absolute beast up until his hips stopped working. You may want to check your narratives first
Look... I know we are all hurting right now, and this team definitely can't run it back next year or else I'm going to lose my mind, but saying that a team sucks despite making the playoffs for several seasons in a row is just factually incorrect. The Leafs don't suck. They are a good team. Just not great,
An oops by the Leafs, could have had him: https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2017e.html
To go with this trade: https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2017e.html
For all the moaning about the leafs players, the problem starts with management.
I hope Woll stays healthy, that dude is good.
They don’t suck. They went to overtime in game seven for chrissakes. And the team that beat them out in game 7/OT just kicked Florida’s ass in game one of the next series. The Leafs hardly suck.
They are getting goalied but that's why you need guys who will stand in front of the net to set screens and others who will get in the goalies head after a play by taking an extra poke at the glove once a save has been made.
A great goalie will save what they can see coming which is most of the Leafs shot attempts. It's those tips, screens and bad bounces which rarely happen for the Leafs come playoff time.
I wouldn't say the Leafs are bad, 2019 Boston, 2021 Montreal, 2022 Tampa and 2023 Florida beat them and each of those teams went to the Stanley Cup finals. The playoff format sucks and many of these first round divisional match ups would be second or third round in a different format.
To be the best you have to beat the best
Exactly enough excuses. Plus why have the leafs never had such hot goalie?
Our goalies allowed 4 goals in the last 3 games.
We've never had .950 across a series. Happens to us every year lol
Sammy’s save % through games 1, 2, 3, 7, and periods 1 & 2 of game 4: .883 Woll’s save % through the 3rd in game 4 + game 5 & 6: .964 Worth noting Sammy stepped up with a .938 in game 7 and the Leafs *really should have been able to score more than 1 goal that game* — but he definitely hurt more than he helped at the start of the series. Woll should’ve been in after game 1. I fully understand that you don’t just pull your #1 after one bad game in the playoffs, but if Woll got the nod earlier I guarantee we’d have played Florida tonight.
It is also true that Woll had struggled late in the season and got hurt after playing 2 playoff games. It was likely a question of starting Woll at 60% healthy vs sammy at near 100% healthy
The more important metric IMO is goals saved above expected (even though xG isn't perfect), and Sammy was at -0.8 for the series - not great, but shows you he's really letting in only 1 more than he should have given the quality of chances the Bruins had And Swayman of course is at 13.2 (though that includes the Florida game). So it cuts both ways. Sammy probably isn't good enough, and our forwards are dog doo doo, but Swayman is fucking nuts
I don't usually dig into x stats - does that Swayman stopped 13.2 Leafs shots that 'should' have been goals (minus whatever he stopped against Florida)? Jfc. I still think the Leafs need a bit of a shakeup but what do you do sometimes
To be fair to Sammy, even though he should’ve made more saves the team was not playing the same defensive game between 1-3 as the rest of the series
Boston played their #1 and then Ullmark and went back to Swayman. We could have done the same.
Sorry, your budgeting does not allow for .950 across a series. It should allow for goals. 50Million on forwards and 3mill on samsonov and you’re blaming the goalie for losing while allowing 1 goal in regulation.
Oettinger makes 4M. Ullmark/Saros make 5M and the guy that killed the Leafs makes 3.4M. Its nothing to do with how much Auston Matthews makes ffs. They just sign shitty goalies. Fucken Matt Murray? How much did he make? Jack Campbell? Freddy Andersen?
The guy that killed the leafs?? Your coach and defenseman couldn’t stop one of the best goal scorers in the league from coming in on him with speed in OT on a Set friggen play that your coaches should have prepped them on! Leaving him all alone to shoulder the blame and the loss. He got you to OT with just 1 goal, despite being screened by dmen all game who couldn’t apply pressure if someone was bleeding out. Ffs. Even when you got sub 2.00 GA you guys blame the goalie. You left him out to dry.
I agree with you in the sense that it’s not his fault entirely but he has a tendency to play well and turn around and let in a muffin. Tying goal should not have gone in. Look how far back he is in his net on that goal. Brutal. And let’s not forget he’s part of the reason leafs were down 3-1 in the first place.
Yeah okay. Samsonov had an.896 sv% and Swayman had a .950 sv% but it definitely has nothing to do with goaltending. Bruins lost both games that Joseph Woll played. Co-incidence? Sure.
No I'm blaming our forwards for not scoring
You're literally not though
Happens to us every year
> We've never had .950 across a series. Happens to us every year lol Why are you talking about shit that you have no fucking clue about? Here's the series everyone cried about getting goalied by Carey Price despite Campbell having better numbers (near .950) for the series. https://www.hockey-reference.com/playoffs/2021-montreal-canadiens-vs-toronto-maple-leafs-first-round.html The Leafs don't lose because they get goalied. They have frequently had as good or better goaltending in a series, yet still managed to lose. They lose because they play just well enough to lose. No matter who they play, the most effort they can muster is equal to their opposition, and then they can't match them when everything is on the line. That's why 6/7 of their first round series the last 7 years have gone the maximum number of games regardless of competition. Blue Jackets? Fuck it, 5/5 games. Montreal? Fuck it, 7/7 games. Boston? Fuck it, 7/7 games. Doesn't matter who they play. They can't just fucking play to their maximum ability, and that's why they'll never win a cup with this core.
Came down to poor special teams. Should have got more than a goal on all of our PP chances. End of story really.
I think it’s more plausible that the leafs made that many goalies look good instead of facing the best goalie in NHL history every year. Sure they are good but the leafs have the best goal scorer in the league so it should counter that.
It'd help if they kept it simple and just obstructed the goalie and looked for deflection goals, obstructed shots, and garbage rebound goals.
Which is annoying because that’s what they did to beat Tampa last year. So many of the goals we did score were tipped it felt like to shots through traffic.
In game 4 we tried that and Boston blocked 26 shots. Throwing the puck on net isn’t our game and sometimes we try to do that and we end up losing.
That was in large part because Vasy is weirdly weak against shots from distance. It was mentioned by another coach on the broadcast during that series.
It's like they feel they have to make the pretty goals, when garbage goals win games in the playoffs. Look at the one series win against Tampa. Wasn't even a shot on net, a pass through the crease off a Tampa players skate.
This, we need to get garbage goals. In the playoffs few people will be open in the slot, you need the rebounds , deflections, screens etc.
100% agree with this, especially on the PP. team does not have a legitimate threat/shot from the point. This allows goalies to hone in on fewer threats.
Regular season goal scorer.
HOW is this the takeaway when Sammy bailed out the leafs in game 6 against the TBL to win their first series in 2 decades? Sammy then allowed 1 goal through regulation in game 7 this year, AND when you take into account the format of how this team is setup (40-50 mil to 4 forwards) and then hear that they have scored 2 goals or less in 13 of their last 14 playoff games.. it’s baffling to me how the conversation STARTS with goaltending and not the myriad of other reasons the leafs lost, the past two years especially..
I wasn't clear, I'm not blaming our goaltending. I was commenting on how we get "goalied" every year which is statistically very unlikely, really we don't know how to score playoff goals.
Woll does have a crazy high save % for his playoff games tbf. Not excusing the leafs but they have lost to Price, Vasy, Bobrovsky and Swayman in recent years. That’s an unusually high level of goaltending compared to other round 1’s. I don’t know how we’d get on against everyone but I’d fancy us to have scored more on Skinner, Lindgren, Talbot, Andersen etc.
Fun fact, other than columbus (who still put up a 950 against us), every goalie the leafs have lost to going back to 2013 was a vezina winner. Except Swayman, who the Bs started in front of a vezina winner.
Yeah, it’s somewhat unlucky. Where I don’t have sympathy is that this team could win the division if they turned up all year and that might get you a better matchup. Yes, it’s likely to be one of Florida, Tampa or Boston but it could be also be a metro crossover. The fact that we have one division title during this era and that when it was the Canadian division is a factor.
Yep, we've never sniffed the presidents trophy, our best league-wide finish is 4th, and usually between 7 and 10.
* In 2017-2018 they were 3rd in the division and 5th in the league. * In 2018-2019 they were 3rd in the division and 7th in the league. * In 2020-2021 they were 1st in the division and in a big tie for 5th in the league (Canadian division). * In 2021-2022 they were 2nd in the division and 4th in the league. * In 2022-2023 they were 2nd in the division and 5th in the league. * In 2023-2024 they were 3rd in the division and 10th in the league. tl;dr: The Atlantic is, generally speaking, cracked.
When you have half the cap tied up by 4 guys, it doesn't leave much to spend on the other 16 guys on the team. We also had a good goalie, but we traded him away to the team that constantly beats us.
CJ and Belfour were reliable
We did, and he got injured after a few games :(
Unfortunately Woll is too fragile. Additionally his body of work is not enough to suggest he’s a legit number one. Certainly no where near the level of Potvin, Cujo and Belfour.
They did, but always ruined them and traded them away. They ended up hot for other tea.s
A lot of pressure on a high pressure position… it ain’t easy between the pipes in Toronto.
Swayman said that he expected to be drafted by the Leafs, but was passed over for another goalie.
We did for 2 games. But then he got injured again. Can't build around Woll, unfortunately.
This is the end of the story. Don’t talk about how good anyone else was. We need to be better and that’s that.
In a bubble you can say they lost a close series. Like the series Vegas just lost? That is a close series, you move on from that. But you have to judge this group cumulatively: 9 playoff series in 8 years. 6 of them went to a Game 7 (Game 5 for Columbus which was the same thing). They've showed zero growth in 8 years of playoffs. Sorry, but it's time to end the era. Six years ago, we came back from 3-1 down vs the Bruins as well, lead in the third period and also lost. There has been zero growth in that time frame. They're not going to suddenly shift gears for real in Year 9. Edmonton was swept by the Jets in 2021, they've learned from that. Colorado lost to Vegas in 2021, they've leaarned from that and won the Cup the following season. Vegas lost to Montreal in 2021, they won the Cup in 2023. Tampa got swept by Columbus in 2019, they went to three consecutive finals. Florida was swept by Tampa in 2022, went to the finals the year after. The lesson for this team should have been the 2021 Habs series and they learned nothing from it.
Very well put.
I feel like with Price, Vasilevskiy, Bobrovsky and Swayman they’ve face some of the best goalies in the playoffs in different seasons (Bob last year not Vasy).
Rask too 💀 Vezina Holtby too 💀
Korpisalo had a like .956 in the CBJ series
Playoff teams generally have good goalies We don’t score many playoff type goals. We rarely have net from presence
Yup. Tons of their goals are from the perimeter, set plays etc. these things don’t run in the playoffs, especially in our division. If we were rinsing through a softer division then *maybe* we could play our normal style. I remember the Amazon series following the leafs blowing the 3-1 lead against Montreal, and iirc Jumbo Joe talked about the playoffs being all about the “dirty goals”. Look at Knies’ OT winner. Those are the kinds of goals they needed and they rarely got. They float shots in from the blue line or the top of the circle. Sure, sometimes those go in (Edmundson in game 6/7?), but when you’re playing a top tier goalie those shots are rarely ever going to go in. You’re not gonna beat Swayman 1v1 99/100 times. You need rebounds, crashing, etc. just didn’t have it
We did pretty good against Vasy each series. He definitely did shut the door on game 7 though.
> He definitely did shut the door on game 7 though. That interference call still gets me fired up.
the problem is they are good enough to go ahead in alot of their past series but can’t close out. I don’t know if that really comes down to just getting goalie-d. They were good enough to go up 3-1 against montreal then suddenly had no answer for price? Comes down to the mental makeup and coaching imo
Korpisalo!
That’s the obvious one that stands out as a bad goalie they’ve not scored on. However, people kind of forget that we weren’t great most of that year. Even making the playoffs was in doubt which is why we were playing in a play in round.
That's fair. But let's not also forget that we blew a 3-goal lead (!) to lose game 3...and then, staring down elimination in game 4, came back from our own late (4 minutes to go!) 3-goal deficit to tie it (via goals from Nylander, Tavares, and Hyman) and win in OT courtesy of Matthews, (with 3 secondary assists from Marner)...only to then lose the clincher in dispiriting fashion, 3-0. So in that case, Keefe's desperation ploy of putting all the top guns out there to claw back worked...one time. My point is, I kind of hate the excuse about getting goalied. The whole point of having 4 premier scorers is that if one isn't going, the others can take up the slack. The aim of the game is to outscore your opponent. You shouldn't be relying on plugs like Liam Foudy or Nick Paul to be the scorers and pot the goals that decide a series and fuel a Cup run. Your aces have to come up aces. To me, the body of evidence points to this core, or this team, or this franchise, lacking the playoff gene to come up big when it matters most. Is it the culture of the club in this city manifesting capitalism and stifling clutch performances?
Maybe the lesson here isn’t that it’s okay to lose to a great goalie. Maybe the lesson is WE need one of these great goalies.
We made them the best
Nah they were good in other series too. Price and Bobrovsky both swept teams after the Leafs for instance.
Oh boo hoo Just calm down and watch Boston go on their cup run… becoming the 23422nd team in a row to beat the Leafs then get to the finals
I just think its interesting because much of the talking heads said whoever won our series would get clapped by Florida. Having watched every minute of it, Swayman could carry that team for a couple more series if he keeps playing like that IMO. Not making excuses for the Leafs.
It also helps when the team in front of him also pots 5 goals.
They only needed 2. You’re gonna win a lot of games that you’re only giving up a goal in
You're gonna win a lot of games if your goalie only allows 2 as well, didn't help us anyway
But it’s 2 goals on like 4 chances.
They won 3 and lost 4 against the hottest goalie in the league while missing our 2 best goal scores for massive portions of the series. Edit; while the power play was already in cancun
Yep, that's how the playoffs roll sometimes, gotta find a way to win anyways.
It came down to a bounce in OT, they played well enough to win. It’s unfortunate, and I’m not defending the early series of poor play, but they also weren’t getting goal tending early in the series the way they were later. Swayman is probably the best player in the playoffs so far. It happens.
Florida hasn't played since April 29th. There's a fine line between rested and rusty in the playoffs - especially for streaky goalies like Bob. While Boston may not get blown out, winning game 1 in that type of situation doesn't mean much in my eyes.
I mean people could have said the same thing about Bobrovsky last season, or Vasilevsky the Season before...
Florida hasn't played since April 29th. There's a fine line between rested and rusty in the playoffs - especially for streaky goalies like Bob. While Boston may not get blown out, winning game 1 in that type of situation doesn't mean much in my eyes.
Florida hasn't played since April 29th. There's a fine line between rested and rusty in the playoffs - especially for streaky goalies like Bob. While Boston may not get blown out, winning game 1 in that type of situation doesn't mean much in my eyes.
The easiest way to tell, imagine the teams switch goalies and ask yourself who wins the series. This year if leafs were shooting on Sammy and we had Sway, it’d be leafs in 5.
But are you considering the Ex-Leaf Mario mushroom effect?
100%
Boston could have won with a Zamboni driver in net
Leafs fans are delusional 😂
I never thought the leafs created that many quality chances. Leafs really never really got into the middle of the ice and slot area enough.
$40 million + tied up in forwards paid to score. They have 2 or fewer goals in 13 of their last 14 playoff games. I’m tired of this shit.
Wow same excuses every year Leafs ran into a hot goalie But what stat you cant escape is that leafs have averaged nearly 4 goals a game during the season but only averaged 1.5 something goals in the playoffs Each year 2-3 of the core doesn't step up and leafs lose. And because they take up so much the cap leafs dont have enough depth to make up for stars faluires
I wonder what the goals for average against great goalies is then. The regular season average would include all the games we ran up the score against the poor ones.
They truly suck my friend. Been getting goalied for almost a decade, at some point it's on us and not the goalies
I’m still rattled by Hasek absolutely owning us in the ‘98 conference finals
99* We didn't make the playoffs in 98
Worse. Dwayne Roloson beat the leafs in game one...Hasek didn't play until game three
I think so too. No doubt Swayman is playing absolutely godly right now though. I could see him carrying Boston to the finals.
Swayman *is* playing absolutely godly right now. The leafs *did not* do a good enough job of producing offense off the rush Both can be true
Galaxy brain take
Swayman currently has the 2nd best SV% *of all time* in a postseason Swayman has 1.95GSAx/60. 2023 highest was 1.235 by Shesterkin 2022 highest was 0.934 by Shesterkin 2021 highest was 1.149 by Vasy 2020 highest was 0.951 by Price 2019 highest was 0.551 by Rask 2018 highest was 0.412 by MAF 2017 highest was 0.747 by Allen 2016 highest was 0.731 by Bishop 2015 highest was 0.774 by Holtby 2014 highest was 0.443 by Lundquist 2013 highest was 0.737 by Quick 2012 highest was 1.046 by Smith 2011 highest was 0.820 by Miller 2010 highest was 0.474 by Halak 2009 highest was 1.183 by Hiller (Minimum 7GP)
The team is built on superstar offensive forwards first, defense and goaltending last... Not enough goals from those superstars (for whatever reasons). It wouldn't be fair to blame anyone else.
Leafs have no superstar offensive forwards.
Are you smoking crack?
Name one of them. Then tell me how many goals they got in 7 games.
show me the playoff stats of these supposed ‘superstars’. go back as far as you like, 2017 even. a team 1/21 on powerplay, objectively has no ‘offensive superstars’. Leafs have some very expensive and very average playoff forwards, but no ‘superstars’.
Piss off with the “goalied” narrative. Such a BS excuse. Oh Carey Price goalied us. Then Bobrovski goalied us. Then Swayman goalied us. No. We didn’t get goalied, we failed to adjust and crumbled on special teams. PERIOD. Because, like you asked, we suck.
Leafs were a far better team (outside game 4 and minus the powerplay) this series then most people will give them credit for. This Boston team was also good enough to be near the top 5 in the league regular season. Unfortunately it doesn't matter anymore because moral victories are not worth anything but this could have been on you forgive if the Leaf's had a cup and some 3rd round exits this decade.
100%
Good teams have good goalies, not many teams make it this far without a stud between the pipes. Gotta find a way to figure them out though, leafs get paid very well to do that and they have failed.
They fucking suck dude. Feel free to watch their powerplay entry attempts and tell me this is a good team. Watch them just allow pasta to score a hilariously and easy goal and tell me they're a good team. This team needs to be nuked from space.
They got goalied and also outplayed
It also shows that three 11M+ forwards (four starting next year) doesn't trump good goaltending. We're going to run into good goaltending, a Vezina winner, etc every single playoffs. If our current formula can't beat that, then we need to change the formula. We can't complain about getting goalied every single year. Also, the best way to score against a hot goalie is traffic in front of the net, tipped shots, rebounds, etc, and this team hasn't been good at crashing the net during this entire era - again, an issue with the formula.
Yes.
Yes. The answer is yes.
Leafs didn’t do some things right that they needed to, but Sway has undoubtedly been the best goalie in the entire playoffs so far. Kind of a bit of column A, bit of column B.
They sucked.
For the 10,000th time. The playoffs are full of good goalies. To win the cup, you have to play against a team or 4 with a good goalie If you lose every time you play against a good goalie, your team is not good enough to win a cup.
They’re full of good goalies, yet in 2021, 2022, 2023 (second round) and 2024 the goalies we faced were literally the best statistical goalies of that playoff. Yes the team needs change, they’re flawed. They also have bad luck, and aren’t constructed well enough to overcome the luck.
>in 2021, 2022, 2023 (second round) and 2024 the goalies we faced were literally the best statistical goalies of that playoff Remember that saying? If everyone you meet is an asshole, you're probably the asshole. Same idea, were the commmon denominator. If every goalie you meet is great, you probably just suck.
But they were the best goalies to every other team they faced as well.
They’ve never lost to a team that went on to win the cup (2013-present), so I’ll say they just suck
Swayman and Ullmark is maybe the best goalie duo of the post expansion era, in some fairness They've saved 109 goals above average in 3 seasons together, Roloson Fernandez was a bit under 100 in four seasons together I think having some high scorers out with injuries, playing injured and underwhelming was the perfect storm, ultimately
Jesus Christ get on from it. This is on par with those posts that complain before the game even starts that the referees are born geographically closer to there opponent then Toronto. It’s been how long with the same core players failing? There’s literally a common denominator in all of these equations. Every single loss this team faces, regardless if it’s regular season or playoffs, this sub has the same 2 excuses. “The refs!!” “Every goalie plays above there head against us!!”
8 years of getting goalied? I doubt it
Best no to dwell on it
Leafs have truly bad luck, it's not like they're getting trounced in round 1 by nobody. They get beaten every year by a team that goes to the finals. 2023 - lose to Florida, Panthers make the final. 2022 - lose to Tampa, Lightning make the final. 2021 - lose to Montreal, Canadiens make the final. 2020 - lost qualifying round to Columbus. Blue jackets lose round 1 series. 2019 - lose to Boston, Bruins make the final. So we'll see, but I expect Swayman to be the story of the playoffs and the Bruins to make the final.
Swayman…..He thought he was going to be a Leaf! Met with them several times before the 2017 Draft. Instead at pick #110, they chose Ian Scott (who quit hockey at age 23), and then with pick #111, the Bruins picked Jeremy Swayman. Just like Tuukka Rask, another good goalie got away from Toronto and went to the Bruins!!
We can debate goalies all we want but the truth is it’s a combination of things. Got out coached, out played, showed true grit when it was too late. They should have made the right moves years ago. But they banked their faith in a bunch of high profile players, and a coach and coaching staff that’s mediocre at most and now this is the price we’re paying.
If it wasn’t the same issue in every single series
Avs played the vezina favorite Helly. There’s no excuses in the playoffs. Leafs need to be better
The Leafs don't suck. Never have. What they require is a slightly different make up. 1 new coaching 2. A more even distribution of money across the roster. Either this offseason with a Marner move or next offseason with JT or both JT and Marner off the books
Made a few bucks on it tonight. You knew Swayman is going on a run because every year - and you knew after a series of low scoring, this game was hitting the over
Both
This team needs an elite goalie, we can’t keep getting goalie every freaking playoff season
I guess Bobrovsky had a stinker?
It can be both
Both answers can be true.
The two aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive to one another
The leafs are good, not great. They are supposed to be great especially with this kind of talent.
Both
Stop using the "goalied" excuse. Every team that wins the cup runs into a hot goalie, and prevail
We are good enough that if a general period hasn’t gone our way we should have a plan B or C to completely shake it up mid game. We never do it
If the excuse is they get goalied every year then they aren't a good enough team and **SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE CHANGED**
Can we offer sheet Swayman this off season? He IS an RFA? Fuck Boston.
Yeah overpay another guy. He can't play the same game behind that dog shit d core
yes
I'd have to wonder out of those 39 shots, how many were actually high danger shots. Like if the Leafs acquired him somehow, he'd probably turn into Andrew Raycroft. It's always easier to play against the Leafs than for them.
Swayman is on a wicked run and the leafs are an average hockey team, both things can be true
Pass the Copium bro
All i have is cocaine
4 times now, the team that beats the Leafs goes on to the cup finals. Wouldnt be shocked if the Bruins made the SCF again and Shanahan says "well we managed to push the Stanley cup finalists to 7, we're almost there!"
Boston also scored within a minute of the Panthers first goal.
I think there’s an issue with spending half the cap on 4 guys AND the Leafs have had some incredibly bad luck (red-hot goalies, injuries, always facing a team that goes on to eliminate 2 or 3 more teams, etc.) I think that if either one of those things is changed, the outcome is different. ESPECIALLY in this series against Boston where they literally lost by a single shot. Most of their eliminations games have been crazy close too. That is the point though, right? You can make adjustments to the makeup of your team, not the luck you get. Now, hockey is a pain in the ass, and the best team doesn’t always win. In fact, the best team doesn’t win far more frequently in hockey than any other major N. American sport. The Leafs could build the best team in history and still get bounced in the first round. But, you control what you can, create the best possible situation, and then test your luck. It will be interesting to see the rest of the 2nd round and whether the Bruins and their goalie can keep that level of play going. It’ll all be academic though. The Leafs have improvements that can be made. That’s all they can do. I’m reasonably optimistic. I can see some paths to some real improvement. We’ll just have to see how well Treliving can work it.
Man the thing is it seems like we face the “hot” goalie every year
It’s not getting “goalied” it’s called getting “playoffed”. The best teams find a way to get it done when it counts.
It’s not getting “goalied” it’s called getting “playoffed”. The best teams find a way to get it done when it counts.
I was listening to the fan 590 and they were talking about goalies that steal games and the importance of having a goalie come through when the rest of the team is struggling. All Stanley Cup teams have had a goalie steal games and even series,we don’t have that
Woll stole 2 games for us, he just decided to be injured for game 7
Have we faced tough goalies....yes. Do you have to find a way to overcome that...also yes.
Truly stink
Yes they are but they are not learning from all these previous beat downs...you need a number 1 goalie. Wake up its only been 2 decades since your last solid goalie.
They truly suck. Tavares will grind out his own goal. The other 3 are opportunistic only. If you limit the opportunities, they just wander around looking good for 60 min and only a few points in like 15 playoff games.
I think both can be true? The Leafs sucked against Boston and didn’t deserve to win the series. But if Jeremy Swayman wasn’t in net they would have. Swayman won Boston that series and he won them that game last night too. Although Boston scoring 5 certainly helped lol.
1 for how many on the power play? That's not getting goalied.
I think swayman looks good because Boston plays strong team defence. They boxed out our forwards from having high danger chances. Montreal and Florida did the same.
Leafs are paying too much to guys who don't produce in the playoffs to afford solid goaltending. That is the difference between us and every other contending team.
They truly just suck in the playoffs- sample size is too big and excuses every time
The three goalies in the division in the playoffs are Bob, Vasy, Swayman ... those guys aren't going anywhere. So long as the divisions don't change, the Leafs are facing one of those guys in the playoffs.
I think they just do a bad job of making the goalie's job hell in the playoffs. Not enough screening, getting on rebounds, shots from the slot. Save percentages will go up if it's all wrist shots from the outside. Credit to boston for controlling the crease.
Leafs truly suck, 1/21. One playoff series win in 19 years. Don’t be delusional.
Truly suck
Why not both?
The leafs rarely get goalied. Opposing goalies get leafed. Sometimes the confidence from that carries on to the next series
Meanwhile Bobrovsky let in 3 goals in 3 shots. GOALIES ARE VOODOO
Are you counting the puck he never saw that hit the shaft of his stick?
There is a common denominator with all these ‘hot goalies’ the leafs face They’re playing the playoff leafs, more dump and chase and less high danger opportunities Keefe said it, they beat themselves… I promise you it’s not a ‘hot goalie’ Are some goalies having good rounds against us? Sure but again the common denominator is playoff leafs
Yes
We need a goalie that is consistent and durable. We need defence that can move the puck and defend, not one or the other. Play your planned playoff system from day one not start at game 82. Get your lines figured out early in the season to build chemistry and not shuffle lines 20x a game. Plan for a long run rest your stars no matter what with 10 games to go in the season.
Even with Swayman playing so well, the Leafs were the better team in much of this series and should have won it. That’s the depressing part of it all. I get the PP argument, the fact that the Leafs weren’t scoring, etc. But that happens sometimes when another team shuts you down. Gotta grind it out. And the Leafs would’ve done that, and won the series, if not for Samsonov. Woll plays from even game two on and the Leafs take this series. So as much as I hate the idea of running it back, I kinda get it this time. And now that a few days have passed, I wouldn’t be too upset with doing that. Although I do think Keefe has to go, as need a change there. He’s had too many chances to fix major issues like the PP. And his instincts are crap. It was crazy obvious after game one that Samsonov hadn’t earned the right to start game two. Yet there he was. And then Keefe gives him game four as well. Just idiotic decisions.
I think it's the job of your top offensive talent to score. With that pay chq expectations are for playoff production. Don't care who is in net.
They truly suck.
How can they get goalied almost every damn year!
He’s been amazing no doubt, but I still fell like the leafs barely showed up for like 3 games.
Wash rinse and repeat, it’s the same story every fucking year, we get embarrassed by a team, 9 times out of 10 in a winner takes all type game, that team goes on a deep playoff run, makes the finals and everyone goes “ah but what can you do? They went to the finals, had a fantastic goalie, were so unlucky with our matchups” and I’m tired of it, Swayman played great, without a doubt all the credit to him, dude is probably going to drag that team to the finals, but the Leafs shouldn’t be getting goalied, our lowest paid core player makes double of Swayman, if they can’t figure out a way to score then what the fuck is the money for? Why not put that money into a Swayman?
They way they play on the perimeter they'll keep getting goalied every playoff round until Matthews retires.
What's more upsetting is Toronto did pick a goalie and none of us even know who he is. Swayman was the very next pick
The goalie they picked had a stellar junior career and was an absolute beast up until his hips stopped working. You may want to check your narratives first
Look... I know we are all hurting right now, and this team definitely can't run it back next year or else I'm going to lose my mind, but saying that a team sucks despite making the playoffs for several seasons in a row is just factually incorrect. The Leafs don't suck. They are a good team. Just not great,
An oops by the Leafs, could have had him: https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2017e.html To go with this trade: https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2017e.html For all the moaning about the leafs players, the problem starts with management. I hope Woll stays healthy, that dude is good.
we dont care what Swayman is doing anymore, it doesnt concern us ..
I am glad you speak with such authority on behalf of the entire community oh holy one. Apologies let me delete this.
Look at the last 3 teams that beat the Leafs in the playoffs and look how those teams finished. The Leafs are not a bad team.
They don’t suck. They went to overtime in game seven for chrissakes. And the team that beat them out in game 7/OT just kicked Florida’s ass in game one of the next series. The Leafs hardly suck.
Boston is riding the high of defeating *gods*.
They are getting goalied but that's why you need guys who will stand in front of the net to set screens and others who will get in the goalies head after a play by taking an extra poke at the glove once a save has been made. A great goalie will save what they can see coming which is most of the Leafs shot attempts. It's those tips, screens and bad bounces which rarely happen for the Leafs come playoff time. I wouldn't say the Leafs are bad, 2019 Boston, 2021 Montreal, 2022 Tampa and 2023 Florida beat them and each of those teams went to the Stanley Cup finals. The playoff format sucks and many of these first round divisional match ups would be second or third round in a different format.
They have not been "goalied" every game in the last eight years. Yes. They truly suck.
It's the playoffs. Facing a good goalie is not am excuse to shit the bed. You gotta find ways to score goals and this team can't. They suck.