I think we have a real shot, Dan Milstein is his agent,leafs have done alot of business with him over the years.
He's also Arturs agent so that may work against us
Am I the only one that doesn't want askarov? The leafs goalie pipeline is actually it's strongest factor in regards to rookies.
Not only that Denis hildeby has better stats on the vastly inferior Toronto Marlies this season.
We have 3 prospects who have had better seasons than him as pros. Why use the limited trade assets the Leafs have on a goalie who has been just okay since he was drafted?
Hildeby has played well, but he's slow in the crease. I'm way higher on Akhtyamov. I've seen 15+ games of his and he's almost always been the best player on the ice, bar none.
Not at all and that's ofc impossible
They just have relatively decreased relevancy mostly given goalies always playing smaller sample sizes
If anything a sort of 'grain of salt' approach would be ideal when evaluating goalies using numbers
You're responding a to model that has predictive value, it's like telling a clock that it is wrong, in a big picture sense
Also, using 'voodoo' in that sense is problematic
Omg get over yourself with the voodoo comment, the PC police is really getting insufferable.
Also they’re saying the predictive algorithm itself is crap, comparing a predictive algorithm to a clock is about as stupid as getting worked up about the word voodoo.
I'll be real. Minten plus Edmonton's 2025 2nd. That would be a realistic offer.
They wanted a 2024 top 5 pick 24 hours ago. When they say "top prospect" they don't mean one of our top 5 prospects, they mean their top prospect for our top prospect.
When they say established NHLer they mean top 6 forward or top 4 defenseman, possibly + a pick if they're on the lower end of that.
There's people in this thread saying to offer two unsigned players or one unsigned player and Kampf. A D+2 38OA pick and a 2nd is far closer to "a top prospect".
Just because other people have worse ideas than yours it doesn't mean yours is good. The only prospect Toronto has that doesn't immediately result in a hang up by Trotz is Cowan.
To be clear, I don't think Cowan by himself tips the scales either. I just think he's the starting point for Trotz to even listen. Point being, Minten projects as a decent third line player. Askarov could be an elite starting goalie.
Askarov projects to be a starting goalie in the NHL but he *could* be an elite goalie.
Minten projects to be an alright middle 6 center in the NHL but he *could* be a very good top 6 center.
>Minten projects to be an alright middle 6 center in the NHL but he could be a very good top 6 center.
Based on what? He's barely above a PPG in his D+2 year. Frankly, if he's a good 4th liner, I'd be happy at this point.
Minten worked on his defensive game last year. The fans have been whining for years to get a shutdown 3rd line centre and now they might have a home grown one and everyone wants to get rid of him.
All these people shitting on Askarov’s stats, what do Woll’s minor league stats look like?
This kid is a stud prospect, better than anything they have in the pipeline, take off the leaf lenses and looking at things partially.
We just signed Woll to a very rich contract for a barely NHL proven goalie. We are not going to trade assets for another goalie that is in a similar boat just not the contract part. I know his ceiling is high and he will probably be better than Woll, but he is not already better than Woll given that he has only played 2.5 NHL games. We also have goalie(s) in the system that can play the backup spot.
I may eat my words, who knows, but I just dont see him being in our crosshairs unless the ask is really Leafs friendly which it never is. It would have to be assets weve already mentally given up on but still give ice time to because of lack of better option like Robertson.
Realistically the only way the leafs get Askarov right now is if hes apart of a Marner package, which would probably be something along the lines of Askarov + Evangelista + 1st + another pick or prospect like L’Heruex
Without making this too long winded most North American goalies his age are still in the CHL/College. Having 2 .911 seasons in the AHL in his 20 and 21 y/o seasons is actually pretty impressive. Even ignoring that, his numbers in Russia are comparable to guys like Vas/Sorokin/Igor at the same age.
You already have 2 elite wingers, and Askarov is probably the best G prospect outside the NHL. It's a calculated risk if it does happen.
Lolol every single drafted CHL goalie his age would have 2 pro seasons under their belt.
The first AHL season was a sign that maybe he was getting back on track after a terrible season in Russia, and then he stagnated again this year. He has really underperformed since his DY+1 season.
There's a reason the Preds locked in Saros, and it's not that they're high on Askarov.
Your second point is what I was wondering.
If both were to reach their potential, I think Askarov would more impactful to winning than Cowan. Having a franchise G over a franchise W is a no brainer, and I think the timeframe probably works a bit better with Askarov as well. Just seems like a perfect opportunity for a team already with 2 franchise wingers. Draft BPA then deal for position of need.
I would too. 100%. Russian goalies have a strong track record. He has the size and athleticism to become elite. As good as Cowan has looked, he has no experience beyond junior.
Lmao. Which of these are established NHLers or top prospects? Or do you think two guys who the Leafs have shown repetitive refusal to play are top prospects or established NHLers?
Liljregren has played just under 200 games averaging just under 18 mins a night… I think that’s an established nhler. Robertson isn’t but he’s worth at least a second and bridges the gap between Liljegren and Askarov.
No but I don’t see how Liljegren/Robertson and Gregor are comparable at all. Gregor is at best a 4th liner and Robertson/Liljegren at least have some potential. I don’t think Nashville would accept a trade like that but I don’t see the need to pay a high price for a goalie that hasn’t proven anything and might not be better than what we have.
Liljegren averaged 19:40 a game and paced for 34 points. Robertson paced for 20 goals and roughly 40 points while playing 11 minutes a night. They aren’t bad players lol they just don’t fit well on the roster.
Rielly for Askarov would be great if possible
Likely not waiving
But 7M$ for 925k then cost controlled
The likelihood of askarov being at least solid is almost certain
Rielly 30 now and at best very good not great
Kylington for instance can replace a lot of what he does
And then some
What in the brain rot…this isn’t EA sports…The likelihood of any goalie being NHL starting caliber is actually closer to unpredictable then certain. Some fringe goalies that have been pushed up the ladder end up breaking out(adin hill) some top prospects and high rated guys that have put up numbers and won trophy’s and awards end up not being anywhere close(Garrett sparks)….this is essentially trading marner for cap space…Which doesn’t guarantee to help us if other teams sign the players we are after. It could end up being a worse situation because then we throw a bag at someone worse then marner(tanev at a 6yx4m big yikes) and hate that even more when marners still cooking up 80+ point seasons
You can’t Getarov if you don’t Askarov
If you don't Askarov, the answer is always Noarov
Askarov, Caskarov, or Grasskarov
I think we have a real shot, Dan Milstein is his agent,leafs have done alot of business with him over the years. He's also Arturs agent so that may work against us
Is it just me or is every Russian player represented by Dan Milstein
That's his whole bit. He's kind of carved out a niche part of the market where high profile Russians go to him because he represents a lot.
Am I the only one that doesn't want askarov? The leafs goalie pipeline is actually it's strongest factor in regards to rookies. Not only that Denis hildeby has better stats on the vastly inferior Toronto Marlies this season.
He's also still like 2+ seasons away from being an impact player.
We have 3 prospects who have had better seasons than him as pros. Why use the limited trade assets the Leafs have on a goalie who has been just okay since he was drafted?
hildeby is bigger and just as promising, not sure why we want to commit to a prospect who has a 2-1 nhl record ffs.
Hildeby has played well, but he's slow in the crease. I'm way higher on Akhtyamov. I've seen 15+ games of his and he's almost always been the best player on the ice, bar none.
https://preview.redd.it/65rkyks2wl9d1.png?width=961&format=png&auto=webp&s=395fd835dac428cca311bc880efa05c7cd125c19
https://preview.redd.it/hvvf5zbctm9d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1752626147db67f8d936829c87b735219568b06c
Stats don't matter for goalies, they're voodoo.
Not at all and that's ofc impossible They just have relatively decreased relevancy mostly given goalies always playing smaller sample sizes If anything a sort of 'grain of salt' approach would be ideal when evaluating goalies using numbers You're responding a to model that has predictive value, it's like telling a clock that it is wrong, in a big picture sense Also, using 'voodoo' in that sense is problematic
Omg get over yourself with the voodoo comment, the PC police is really getting insufferable. Also they’re saying the predictive algorithm itself is crap, comparing a predictive algorithm to a clock is about as stupid as getting worked up about the word voodoo.
Pass. Askarov is still unproven at the NHL level. For a team ready to win a Cup, this kind of trade would be regressive.
I'll be real. Minten plus Edmonton's 2025 2nd. That would be a realistic offer. They wanted a 2024 top 5 pick 24 hours ago. When they say "top prospect" they don't mean one of our top 5 prospects, they mean their top prospect for our top prospect. When they say established NHLer they mean top 6 forward or top 4 defenseman, possibly + a pick if they're on the lower end of that.
That's a terrible return for Askarov. Every single team with need of a goalie can easily easily beat that offer.
There's people in this thread saying to offer two unsigned players or one unsigned player and Kampf. A D+2 38OA pick and a 2nd is far closer to "a top prospect".
Just because other people have worse ideas than yours it doesn't mean yours is good. The only prospect Toronto has that doesn't immediately result in a hang up by Trotz is Cowan.
And if Trotz says "Cowan" And Treliving says "Okay (:" Treliving is the exact kind of negotiator that this subreddit thinks Dubas is.
If it's 1 for 1 I'd be perfectly fine with it
Nah
To be clear, I don't think Cowan by himself tips the scales either. I just think he's the starting point for Trotz to even listen. Point being, Minten projects as a decent third line player. Askarov could be an elite starting goalie.
Askarov projects to be a starting goalie in the NHL but he *could* be an elite goalie. Minten projects to be an alright middle 6 center in the NHL but he *could* be a very good top 6 center.
>Minten projects to be an alright middle 6 center in the NHL but he could be a very good top 6 center. Based on what? He's barely above a PPG in his D+2 year. Frankly, if he's a good 4th liner, I'd be happy at this point.
Minten worked on his defensive game last year. The fans have been whining for years to get a shutdown 3rd line centre and now they might have a home grown one and everyone wants to get rid of him.
He's aware. He's saying the return may very well be more than Cowan.
Then we should sit this one out, contending teams have no business trading for magic beans unless they clearly win the trade.
You're dealing a top prospect from a position of strength for a top prospect at a position of need, but sure, magic beans.
Goalies are voodoo
Yeah looking like they'd ask for Cowan and we'd offer Minten
Would Marner go to Nashville? Asking for a friend.
I’d give up Lily Robertson, and Minten
Lily, Robertson and like a 3rd
The ask is too high obviously, dont think the Leafs have anything besides Cowan / Knies that the Predators would be interested in tbh
I’d keep knies for sure. If the goalie pans out then anything else mentioned would be worth it by a lot
i would give up topi niemela for him in a heart beat
All these people shitting on Askarov’s stats, what do Woll’s minor league stats look like? This kid is a stud prospect, better than anything they have in the pipeline, take off the leaf lenses and looking at things partially.
Wonder if they would be interested in Laine
We just signed Woll to a very rich contract for a barely NHL proven goalie. We are not going to trade assets for another goalie that is in a similar boat just not the contract part. I know his ceiling is high and he will probably be better than Woll, but he is not already better than Woll given that he has only played 2.5 NHL games. We also have goalie(s) in the system that can play the backup spot. I may eat my words, who knows, but I just dont see him being in our crosshairs unless the ask is really Leafs friendly which it never is. It would have to be assets weve already mentally given up on but still give ice time to because of lack of better option like Robertson.
We haven’t actually signed Woll to a new contract yet.
Youre correct but were not about to become a team that goes back on an all but signed contract.
Realistically the only way the leafs get Askarov right now is if hes apart of a Marner package, which would probably be something along the lines of Askarov + Evangelista + 1st + another pick or prospect like L’Heruex
Preds probably ask for Knies or Cowan. We probably offer Niemela or Minten with picks. Maybe I'm crazy, but I'd do Cowan for Askarov straight up.
Hell no to that. Goalies are voodoo.
We're like a year removed from Vasilevskiy playing every game in 3 straight Final runs.
Yeah but we're talking about a guy with 3 NHL games under his belt, it's a long stretch to the best goaltender of the last 5 or so years.
Using games played against a 22 year old with fantastic stats everywhere he's played doesn't make a ton of sense.
Fantastic stats? Aside from his 2 nhl games this year, he's never posted a sv% above .911 in North America. That's far from fantastic.
Without making this too long winded most North American goalies his age are still in the CHL/College. Having 2 .911 seasons in the AHL in his 20 and 21 y/o seasons is actually pretty impressive. Even ignoring that, his numbers in Russia are comparable to guys like Vas/Sorokin/Igor at the same age. You already have 2 elite wingers, and Askarov is probably the best G prospect outside the NHL. It's a calculated risk if it does happen.
Lolol every single drafted CHL goalie his age would have 2 pro seasons under their belt. The first AHL season was a sign that maybe he was getting back on track after a terrible season in Russia, and then he stagnated again this year. He has really underperformed since his DY+1 season. There's a reason the Preds locked in Saros, and it's not that they're high on Askarov.
I was comparing him to Vasi, as you seemed to do....
He’s also the only goalie like that since Roy
Your second point is what I was wondering. If both were to reach their potential, I think Askarov would more impactful to winning than Cowan. Having a franchise G over a franchise W is a no brainer, and I think the timeframe probably works a bit better with Askarov as well. Just seems like a perfect opportunity for a team already with 2 franchise wingers. Draft BPA then deal for position of need.
I would too. 100%. Russian goalies have a strong track record. He has the size and athleticism to become elite. As good as Cowan has looked, he has no experience beyond junior.
Liljegren+Robertson
Lmao. Which of these are established NHLers or top prospects? Or do you think two guys who the Leafs have shown repetitive refusal to play are top prospects or established NHLers?
Liljregren has played just under 200 games averaging just under 18 mins a night… I think that’s an established nhler. Robertson isn’t but he’s worth at least a second and bridges the gap between Liljegren and Askarov.
I think you are very badly misunderstanding what "established NHL player" means. May as well do Gregor
I could argue that Gregor is an established Nhl player he just isn’t a good one lol.
Do you think that when they say "established NHL player" in this context it's referring to players like Gregor?
No but I don’t see how Liljegren/Robertson and Gregor are comparable at all. Gregor is at best a 4th liner and Robertson/Liljegren at least have some potential. I don’t think Nashville would accept a trade like that but I don’t see the need to pay a high price for a goalie that hasn’t proven anything and might not be better than what we have.
Liljegren sat in the press box for the end of the season, and Robertson has played barely any games
Liljegren averaged 19:40 a game and paced for 34 points. Robertson paced for 20 goals and roughly 40 points while playing 11 minutes a night. They aren’t bad players lol they just don’t fit well on the roster.
they're established NHLers, just not top 6 ones
gtfo we’re not giving up minten, knies or cowen for this guy. move on
If it only took Minten, they should make that trade in a heartbeat.
Lindgren for askarov?
Lol
Rielly for Askarov would be great if possible Likely not waiving But 7M$ for 925k then cost controlled The likelihood of askarov being at least solid is almost certain Rielly 30 now and at best very good not great Kylington for instance can replace a lot of what he does And then some
What in the brain rot…this isn’t EA sports…The likelihood of any goalie being NHL starting caliber is actually closer to unpredictable then certain. Some fringe goalies that have been pushed up the ladder end up breaking out(adin hill) some top prospects and high rated guys that have put up numbers and won trophy’s and awards end up not being anywhere close(Garrett sparks)….this is essentially trading marner for cap space…Which doesn’t guarantee to help us if other teams sign the players we are after. It could end up being a worse situation because then we throw a bag at someone worse then marner(tanev at a 6yx4m big yikes) and hate that even more when marners still cooking up 80+ point seasons
Honestly, Robertson and try to convince them Kampf has value
Barry hangs up before even hearing Kampf’s name
Look at the market, man.
Scraps ain’t going to get Askarov
$10,000,000
More likely Cowan or Minten which I'd still do