That’s why I take breaks with single player games lol get home from getting shit on all day at work to getting shit on in the game, naaaaahh maaan
*Fires up starfield*
Come play LoR and get cooked by Updraft, Rally, and spell-shield!
(Its actually an amazing game as someone who had no interested in card game and just wanted deeper LoL lore.)
Making 5e decent for martials aka dropping broken weapons. I promise if you get strong weapons / other items, normal 5e martials are also very strong (at least until level 12)
“Until level 12”. Yeah, that’s the problem for martials. They need everything and their mothers to be decent until 60% of a progression, when they become little more than meat shield for the mage who can stop time and rain down meteors
So what's different in BG3 then? Even in later levels, martials have better single target damage I'm pretty sure, so it depends a lot on the opponents you face. Yeah, if you need to clear an army nothing beats meteors but if you're trying to murder a few dragons martials are definitely competitive.
To me the big differences in BG3 compared to 5e tabletop is that the utility spells have been nerfed whether directly or indirectly. So for example Hypnotic Pattern, a pretty staple fight winning spell in tabletop got nerfed down to a 2 turn duration. So while it is still a strong spell it is no longer an instant fight win if you land it. Banishment is another example as it only has a 2 turn duration as well.
Also the games environments are most likely bigger than most people play on tabletop and it makes it harder to hit as many enemies with CC spells so you aren't controlling as many enemies.
Martials have typically always held up in sustained single target damage it was always utility and AOE that they lacked. BG3 has nerfed a decent amount of the utility spells so it helps to make Martials keep up with mages.
Bg3 ends at lv 12 . That is a BIG difference powerwise. You said for example murdering a dragon: any dragon worth their name (because they are smart) will simply outmaneuver the martial with his own magical ability and flight, while the fighter/barbarian can attack the nothing 4 times in a row (or 8 if the fighter surges)
Pretty sure most people arent playing 5e at level 12 either. Sure some people run a super long campaign or just start high level but Ive been playing for a long time a 5-12 is where most games are played in my experience and from talking to other DMs.
On the martials vs casters debate I find people who think martials are super underpowered and casters are busted dont really play that much and just theory craft stuff. Even at level 18 as a Wizard you get 4 level 1 spells 3 level 2-5 spells and only 1 each of 6-9 spells. Yeah those spells are crazy strong but you get 1 per long rest and you dont just get to power game rest whenever you want when you are playing 5e. Martials are strong all the time. That's why I think casters are actually only busted in BG3 where you can abuse long rests. In 5e there is the very real trade off of having limited resources
The reason that martial vs caster discussions exist in 5e is for a couple reasons, but one of them is that the limited resources issue that could theoretically put a limit on caster power doesn’t practically matter at most tables. People just don’t play in a way where their casters are actually going to run out of spells.
The other reason is that, especially with wizards, spells can basically solve any problem, and probably better than a martial. Look at Knock - yeah you could have your ROGUE make a check to pick a lock. Or your wizard could do it for free, checkless. I know this is a spell you only get access to at 13th level, but Force Cage basically auto beats every enemy once you get it unless the enemy can specifically have an ability designed to mitigate it. Druids can summon a better fighter than an actual fighter. The list goes on and on. Spellcasters have much much better out of combat utility than martials in 5e, to the point a wizard could realistically solve at least 95% of situations thrown at them. Casters aren’t even hurting on damage either - example, fireball has been explicitly stated by WOTC to be deliberately overscaled for its level. Martials CAN do better ST damage, but in every other facet of the game they are worse than casters. And caster still do plenty of ST damage.
A huge issue as well that causes most people to view casters as better than martials, is most people don't use the number of recommended encounters between rests. IIRC, it's supposed to be something like 3 major encounters + 2 minors between long rests per balancing from WOTC. Since most groups that I've seen don't enforce this, they end up having more spells available per encounter than they should.
Yeah I was getting at this, and it’s definitely a contributing factor. Most DMs simply don’t write their stories that way. Some burden might be on the players, but I’d also argue it indicates that Wizards isn’t willing to acknowledge how their tables actually run given One DND is basically the same in that regard.
That's true, but from a DM's perspective it's not so easy to enforce that. I probably don't have time to run five encounters in one sitting.
Telling players "you don't get to rest this play session, it'll take a real-life month for your spell to recharge" is disappointing for players, and players might mess up the bookkeeping.
> The reason that martial vs caster discussions exist in 5e is for a couple reasons, but one of them is that the limited resources issue that could theoretically put a limit on caster power doesn’t practically matter at most tables. People just don’t play in a way where their casters are actually going to run out of spells.
Unless you give your martials access to free healing, trying to use spells per day against casters has stopped working after early levels since well before 5e.
And once casters have access to strong out of combat spells, the DM doesn't set the pace of encounters anymore anyway, the casters do. DMs trying to enforce this will either piss off players or trigger an arms race of PCs looking to break the campaign.
Realistically, there is no way to balance casters and martials and still have a game that resembles D&D. You can make casters *unfun* to play, as Pathfinder 2e does, but in the end they still hold the power from the mid levels onwards. You cannot both make a game system that describes worlds where magic is the only kind of power that matters and make non-magical characters relevant at high levels. It's just not happening.
I drew the comparison to level 12 exactly because that's when BG3 ends and you claimed they achieved the impossible by making martials playable until then.
Most games are not going past level 12 is the thing so its not really 60% of the progression. Almost every WOTC module only goes to hard 10-12 and thats not exactly a new phenomenon. The game breaking down at higher levels has been a thing for decades and in spin offs like pathfinder too.
That is why Eastern RPGs have Mage study lore while Martials cultivate. So a Martial can also cleave mountains and can 1 shot a Mage from 200 feets away if the Mage isn't ready.
And both can Teleport, fly, heal etc.
That is why you should try a few Chinese Wu-Xia game on steam. When your sword swings can conjure fireball swarms strong enough to 1 shot a Dragon.
Also, I don't know how Monk is doing in BG3, but in BGII they were absurd powerful. My MC was a Mage with a crack team of Waifus, and they end up getting killed in 10 seconds by the Monk-Bhaalspawn. Everything we cast didn't land.
The literal Demogrogan was easier than that Monk.
I keep seeing this over and over and over but in my games od dnd martial classes seems absolutely ok in comparison to spellcasters and maybe even better - amd i've been playing 5e for at least five years
To be fair, like 95% of people have never even played beyond level 12 in tabletop dnd, so for the vast vast majority of people, martials and casters are actually pretty close.
It's not about being equals or not, it's that I have played other games based on D&D playstyle (mainly, OSR stuff and retroclones) and I was never able to enjoy martials or any kind of mundane character after playing them elsewhere.
I'll always play a spellcaster in 5e, but I'll play a Warrior any time in WWN or similar stuff.
They simply don't \*feel\* like they are "better at fighting" in 5e.
They are just the guys with a lot of HP and some tricks to be capable even without using magic.
But then a Spellcasters uses a well placed spell and they have done way more than you ever will.
When people complain about caster vs martial disparity it usually isn't in terms of damage its in terms of utility. Martials usually keep up or outpace mages in single target DPS but have zero utility anywhere else. Need to sneak inside a fortress? Casters cast Invisibilty/Pass without a Trace on everyone. Need to quickly make an exit after sneaking inside that fortress? Casters can dimension door/power word recall or at the very least drop a darkness/fog cloud to give you cover to escape. Camping out for the night in a dangerous forest? Ritual cast Tiny hut and now your safe. Trying to track down a murderer? Cast speak with dead on the victim and get some clues. Caught the murderer and want to interrogate them? Put them in a zone of truth.
This is only scratching the surface as to what casters can do with their spells. Compare this to martials and I think it should be obvious how they lack in this department.
I reroll because I'm trying my 18th class combination and have 150 hours finishing act 1 and still haven't done every single scenario and finding new things.
You're not wrong, but if you do that, you can't *roleplay* as a *new character* with a different race and personality (who's gonna probably be basically just another trope, but yeah)!
Fun fact was Dota player numbers were most unaffected by baldurs gate unlike every other game in existence
Moba players stick to their moba and nothing else
it might also be because mobas are easy to play in much smaller, discrete chunks (like one or two games).
i rarely play league, and i only do it when i just want to take a 20 minute break from reality (to be clear i only play ARAM) - if i played baldur’s gate i’d sink hours into it per session, and i don’t really have the time or energy for that.
i disagree, moba forces u to sit through an 20-40min long match that u cant exit while rpgs like bg3 let u save and quit anywhere which makes them way more accessible in my book
Games like bg3 require mental and emotional investment and engagement that league does not. I could play bg3 and become exhausted from rereading dialogue over and over (I have severe adhd) or I could queue league and turn my brain off and let my 2000 hours of muscle memory do the work for me. I have an ever growing mountain of single player games that I want to play but I never do because of this.
League isn't really a "turn your brain off" kind of game unless you're in silver or playing normals or something i guess. In fact I'd argue you actually need to be *more* mentally engaged in a league match vs some single player game or mmo for the most part. I have adhd too and to me it sounds like those other games are a lot slower paced than a league match.
I agree with you. I should’ve clarified that I meant normals. I don’t play ranked that much anymore because it requires too much focus as well (also like 5 other reasons but not going into that here).
Well he's an adc player, I'm not saying that adc is a good role to autopilot on, but out of the 5 roles, as long as you got the hands, you can do a lot more autopiloting as an adc than say a jungler.
Different strokes for different folks I guess? I'm with you, personally. RPGs for me are just vibes while LoL makes my brain neurons go off like fireworks. I'm also a jungler that looks around the map always, so my average game might be an entirely different experience than the other guys
If I save and quit every 20 minutes in a beautiful single player game, there is no point to play that game (personally speaking). I play games like that to fully immerse myself and sink into that world. That is PRECISELY why games like League, not necessarily moba's but rather games with a general time-per-match, are super well-suited as a time buffer.
Specifically Dota 2 is like the most insular game in gaming. Twitch put out an infographic on it and Dota viewers view Dota almost exclusively, with very little overlap. They found the game they like, and boy do they like it.
To be fair that's just DOTA, when the first Overwatch beta came out all game playerbase everywhere dipped except DOTA, that game grips you unlike anything else.
“Play” and Star Citizen don’t really go together, it’s mostly a chat room to discord with friends and while you quantum jump around doing nothing in between game crashes or dying walking down some stairs.
As a person with over 1 million mastery points on Poppy, I can say that I do play other games.
If I didn't, I would probably have closer to 2 million...
Lootboxes, Gatchas and other ways to exploit the human psyche should be pushed back against no matter what.
Some people here really need some fucking education about human psychology and how those things try to exploit it and are successful at it.
I think the issue here is actually empathy and not a lack of knowledge.
Most of the deranged posts I see on this site are just from people who never learned to see a perspective other than their own. So as long as the suffering of others doesn't impede their personal goals they feel no qualms ignoring it.
As someone who works/helps with people who struggle with addiction, that's sadly the majority of the population. Whether is be drugs, alcohol, gambling, etc... most don't give a single fuck.
i can only imagine its because we're developed a fucked up narative that falling into any form of addiction is a fully personal failing and makes said person a loser in some way, rather than pointing at companies that pattent techniques specifically targeting people who are weak to addictive stims, people are hardcoded at this point to just blame the victims of said comapnies. it's wild
And no one wants to even consider the fact that a large percent of the population have straight up addictive tendencies/personalities. Like, that's their default setting.
Along with so many other reasons that aren't really in your "control".
-Children of addicts and/or victims of child abuse are more likely to suffer from addiction.
-A large amount of mental illness suffer from substance abuse, Bipolar/Depression/BPD/ADHD/Anxiety/Schizophrenia/etc.
-Stress.
-And along with what you said, min/maxing people's emotions and dopamine receptors to create profit really doesn't help the addiction epidemic either.
And this isn't even all of them. So many reasons for someone to fall into addiction. Treatment is also really difficult in a sense that it lowkey contradicts the "fully personal failing" ideology that people have surrounding addiction. Because someone who suffers from addiction will almost never truly never stay sober unless they really want to. But that doesn't mean they don't WANT to stay sober or are too weak to accomplish it. It's a difficult thing that no one will understand unless they experience it first hand, because even 2nd hand experiencing it through family/friends wont show you how difficult it is.
We can give them all the resources, treatment, therapy, drugs, coping skills, support groups, but they have to choose to use them. It's a constant battle and a revolving door for a lot of them.
I assume these gaming companies are doing all this bullshit now because they see changes in the future, just like regular gambling, and are just trying to get their bag while they can.
People saying "If you spent the money it's your own fault" as if companies pulling this aren't just allowing but RELYING on people ruining their lives with overspending. The inevitable end result is that Riot gets more money, and a small group of players suffer for the rest of their lives. Many of whom won't even know that it will get them hooked until it's already happened. The only way to know you're at risk of gambling addiction is to develop one!
And Riot is perfectly happy to watch those people go up in flames to make their line go up!
It's like those people who always throw around the excuse of, "it'S jUST An OPtIONAL COSmeTic BrO. If YOU BUy IT YOur DumB." It's such a tone deaf response.
I just want to say I knew this moment would come, lootboxes were added BECAUSE the community wanted them. And even then they are the best implementation of lootboxes in any other F2P game on the market. We get a fuck ton of free lootboxes in a year, they all have bad luck protection, and there’s guaranteed rewards for buying them. No one is being exploited buying these lootboxes. Like think of shit like CS2, that’s an ACTUAL exploitive loot box system that preys on actual gambling habits. No bad luck protection, skins can be traded for real money, the difference between a good skin and a bad skin is like 30,000% in value. Riots is a fun little side thing, you’re not expected to dump thousands of dollars in them, they’ve even said that in the past.
That’s applicable to a lot of things though. The ranked ladder and all these shiny divisions are just there to exploit the human psyche. Maybe we should get rid of those as well? Or you can take it even further… the game itself is quite addicting isnt it?
If you’re somehow addicted to collecting random non tradeable cosmetic item you are pretty fucked in the head. Thanks for helping keep the game free though
A great change would be if they stopped giving out free stuff completely!!! I am sure that would go home with the same people complaining about this!!!!
So Riot should stop giving out free stuff right? So why is it that every time they nerf free stuff people complain? Why are those complainers not happy about how others won't get addicted now without those free hooks?
Obviously. I am pointing out that the same people outraged about this would not like the removal of free items either and that this rather is just a circlejerk of complaints by losers who hold no values. Same story over and over again they will never be satisfied by whatever change comes and whatever good has already come. it is all so sad.
The complaining is *precisely* the reason league is one of the better games. Under a profit-driven system, over time games essentially get as bad as the community lets them, and the fact that the league community complains a lot means that barrier is still pretty good
Agreed.
It's also more beneficial to the community overall as it can bring good change whereas complaining about complainers literally provides nothing of value, and attempts to silence criticisms that could lead companies to improve the product.
Comparing the game to gachas with worse practices to silence others is a worthless argument as there will always be others that have it worse.
When you want something to be better you compare it to what's already better, not worse.
I agree with the idea, don’t agree with how riots being scummy. Wtf is scummy about putting out a skin for an insane price? Honestly asking. If it were something like priority on champ select or something that actually effects gameplay I would agree. But what’s scummy about a skin
It preys on psychology to convince people to buy it.
Most people are not ok with spending $200 to buy a skin.
However by using gacha mechanics, it preys on people who want to get lucky while having an insanely low natural drop-rate.
As people spend more and more money trying to get lucky, the sunk cost-fallacy makes them want to commit to spending $200, when before if they were making an informed decision, they wouldn't.
>Also, compared to other games, we're definitely doing wayyy better, people are acting like other games get so much free stuff, while skins there usually cost $1k+ and it's on Gacha with atrocious drop rates.
That is what Riot wants. That is why people are complaining. They're slowly sliding the scale until they can get away with doing the gacha shit (which they're not far off, btw).
You're missing the point completely, instead complaining that people can see something you can't.
"Other companies are doing a worse thing so you are not allowed to complain" is the worst take to have as a user. It's so dumb. Riot can defend themselves. Companies are not your friends.
The only reason League has stayed somewhat "good" on the monetization is because the users push back.
same shit as "other people have it worse stop complaining"
or "stop buying starbucks and avocado toast and only eat water and oatmeal to live"
some people have passipn in their hobbies and some people are too dumb to know lmao
Except the scenarios aren't the same at all.
One is the necesities to live that people aren't being allowed due to an exploitative system draining resources that people *need* for the sake of profit.
The other is people complaining about not getting enough value from cosmetic items/enough free shit in a video game.
The first one has merit for the people arguing against the "avocado on toast" bs. The second one is being entitled.
You can be passionate, but ultimately 750/975 skins didn't sell and reduce the value of chests. And a company that's sole purpose is to make profit not giving you something completely optional, that has 0 effect on your wellbeing , for free isn't really comparible. If you don't like the value of the passes, don't buy them. If you can't afford a 1350 skin, realistically you shouldn't be spending your money on a 975/750 skin either.
I'm no fan of many of riot's decisions over the years, but this really is just entitlement at this point. It's a game you can play completely for free, and have access to *premium* cosmetics completely for free. They have no obligation to provide this at all. Acting as though they do is acting like a spoiled child.
Yeah but the difference is the core game is free. If lol cost £60 plus micro transactions then I get complaints and actually support the push back.
It's a free game with paid transactions for cosmetics that they also give out for free.
Riot 100% has it's issues. The way it's handled monetisation for the f2p games has been absolutely fine
There’s really nothing more cringe than people shilling for corporations. Always and forever they’re purely working on ways to extract more dollars from you.
Never understood what compels anyone to rant about how kind and loving a corporation is.
The real problem of these gacha skins is that riot intentionally targets people with poor of self-control and plays on psychological tricks to take advantage of people. They exploit addiction behavior to extract maximum profit, similar to how casinos exploit gambling addictions. Not directly the price cost of the items themselves.
Ofc Riot has had some good monetization for a while, and multiple other companies do much worse. Still, it is always a point of criticism when a company prays on addiction of people.
Remember ages back when folks freaked out about the idea of horse armor dlc in oblivion? Y'know, because people were worried it was going to lead to increasingly worse business practices down the line? Crazy how things can come back around like that.
This post summarizes the problems with the league community. Its just people hating on one part of the community and then hating back.
Just because OP didnt spend money and got his skins for free doesnt mean the system isnt predatory and trying to lure the most money out of peoples pockets. Also what does it matter if we get skins "free" when we pay it forward by playing the game? We legit as a player are a resource for Riot. Who is going to spend money on a dead game that got no playerbase?
OP also isnt adressing how Event passes gets devalued with each iteration while Riot is cranking up RP prices.
Just cos other games got it "worse" doesnt mean we cant critizice Riot? Then he lists some things that are redundant af with 2 patches every week? Dude, see how the game gets stale like Overwatch if they dont shake things up and how people will stop playing it. Also the mess of League balancing is so atrocious if the meta gets stale people will realize how bad it is.
Saying Riot is the best company we got in gaming clearly shows how OP should take his own thread in mind that he clearly dont touch any other games than league and has no idea.
You clearly don't understand how predatory (there is a reason they are callex exactly that) practices like Gacha elements, which is basically just gambling, are hyperoptimized by analaysts to press exactly the right psychological buttons and can lead to severe addiciton in vulnerable individuals.
This post sounds to me like a non-smoker in the 90s arguing against a cigarette advertisement ban because "everyone has a free will and decides for themselves if they want to smoke".
Yeah no, while our society and our technology advanced to incredible levels in the last 2000 years, our bodies and brain stayed pretty much the same. We have tools and means to analyze what increases the likelyhood of someone buying products and in the case of gambling mechanics, it preys on processes that can lead to a loss of control in certain vulnerable individuals.
Your points about designer clothes completely misses the point that people criticize about the Mythic Variants. Comparing clothing to something potentially as addicting as gambling is incredibly ignorant in my opinion.
Some people are way more vulnerable to addiction in any way or form, caused by factors out of their control, like genetics, personality traits and psychological wellbeing and I'm very much for lawmakers around the world to at least try to protect these vulnerable individuals from these practices just like we try to do from other harmful addictions like smoking.
Well said.
EU is banning more and more gacha elements and I'm curious what will happen when this hits League.
Only example I know currently is that if you're in Belgium, Apex Legend random lootboxes only give you crafting materials (that you can use to craft any skin) instead of random skins.
The entire deal with "they give lots of free stuff away" is very clever way for companies to make dimwits defend them
Every single f2p game these days gives away a ton of free stuff.
Why?
Because all the psychologists/behaviour experts they hired showed them data and told them that giving people small amount of free stuff makes them stick with the game longer and actually open up the wallet.
They are not giving it out of the kindness of their hearts.
Anyone here played HotS? The game gave out more and more cosmetics for free as the growth stopped.
As it is now, HotS has the best f2p cosmetic shop of any game that I know of. You earn the equivalent of "orange ssence" and you just go to the store and buy whatever you want instead of having to rely on luck and getting the shards.
I play tons of games. I spend money on league.
Doesn't mean I'm fine with them slowly turning the game into gatcha trash.
They are just slowly stepping up their game and in a few years time we'll have chinese business model.
>League gives more free shit than any game I've ever played.
Spotted the youngin.
Games today are absolute dog shit when it comes to the predatory monetization.
"Things could be worse" Also things could be a lot better, you even admit this multiple times! Why the fuck are you riding penis for a corporation?
e:
> Also, compared to other games, we're definitely doing wayyy better, people are acting like other games get so much free stuff, while skins there usually cost $1k+ and it's on Gacha with atrocious drop rates.
That you aren't naming any games tells volume about you.
e: [Ah I get it, you're a horrible human being.](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/17g4cyx/im_convinced_league_players_never_touched_any/k6ekxna/)
Never understood this idea of this other game has it worse. Why does it matter if something was good and they added a change players dont like why cant they complain. It doesnt make it ok because "Ohh but this other game does it too".
"You can't complain because people in Africa have it worse" energy.
This is coming from someone who actually doesn't really about this topic. I just hate that way of arguing as well.
Weird post. This is EVERY game that has a subreddit. Reddit is not emblematic of real life. People who post and interact here are more involved than your average player by a mile.
Most players don’t even go on Reddit, and the ones that do MIGHT check it to see if the game is down or something, and they’ll do it without an account….maybe.
Any subreddit for a game is gonna have the zealots who are hardcore addicted and play nothing else.
Well, at least subreddit people like call of duty or Poe or tarkov seems to have dabbled in a multitude of other games, even if they’re still tribal warring over why their game is just better.
League is probably one of the largest subs where it feels like a significant amount people here barely even know about EA or Blizzard games outside they made stuff like WoW and FIFA. Course no data to back it up but you see some balance, monetization, content and feedback whine posts and it sorta does feel that way.
> but it's still the best company we got in the gaming industry
Whoah whoah slow down buddy. Ultimately the best gaming company is the company which makes the best games and has good enough communication regarding their decisions. I don’t give a shit about skins, that’s not gameplay. “Balance patches” every 2 weeks are not for the sake of actual balance and do not make the game better or worse, it’s a cyclical shift in power of champions in league as a form of audience engagement. In terms of actual gameplay content there was a GIGANTIC drought before arena released and now that it’s gone under construction the same lack of gameplay applies. There’s plenty of games out there which are less buggy, have more content, and still have developers which communicate
Some people here are extreme about their critique but this is the opposite end of the spectrum
let me guess, here we have a 20-22 year old, feeling themself today.
thinking they write up an "adult smart take" post but fall flat and in the end it is just some circle jerk and also somehow defending a gaming company with 0 substance arguments, just to shit on fellow players, at the same time.
Good job.
This whole "we do not deserve because other games/companies worse" is just so shortsighted and naive, I could cry.
As an ex $8K+ whale; I’ve been around since the beginning and love League of Legends as a whole. I actually don’t care at all Riot has made a $200 skin. But the fact the game feels more corporatized, hollow and just a vehicle for getting people to ONLY purchase drives me away from buying anything. It’s been two years and I would easily give money again if Riot changed its current path as a company. This year has been disappointing at best in terms of how they treat the community.
>Riot isn't exactly a good company
So why cant we complain again?
>but it's still the best company we got in the gaming industry
Ah oké, first this is debatable
Second just because there are other more shitty companys doesnt mean we dont get to complain, doesnt mean they cant still do better.
Saying we cant complain because there is worse out there is saying we cant be happy because there is better out there.
But no, pleasy keep defending the billion dollar company.
Ye the shit im reading in here is unreal, they literally give free skins and what you can buy with money is purely cosmetic. Rune pages used to be a bit p2w but they reworked them into not being.
There's lots of valid criticism about the game but if there's one thing noone has any right to complain about it's the monetization which could be so much more predatory.
Fr lol players getting mad whenever a champ is broken for two weeks is also so funny. There are tons of games out here that would be so fucking happy to get balance patches so often, and no Timothy, it isnt because the ennemy champ has 52% WR that you are stuck in silver.
Good old days where CoD shipped in the same state you’d still be playing it in to this day. From start to finish every goober in MW3 only ever played the ACR, MP7 and/or FMG9 akimbos.
Imagine playing against Azir every other game since the day he released.
This whole sub is a big ass circlejerk. Sadly there are no filter options and is still the best and only place to get relevant news about league unless you want to follow 200 Riot employees twitter accounts.
Fascinating to watch the evolution of gaming communities, from bashing Bethesda endlessly for Oblivion horse armor to dickriding a billion dollar company to justify a $200 skin.
What content? We've only lost modes over the years (dominion, twisted treeline).
Thank fuck nexus blitz is back, only 2 maps (more like 1 map) existing for a game with tens of millions of players is embarrassing.
I’ve been playing league for 10 years and the skin debate means absolutely nothing to me. When I started we had to buy every skin except for victorious skins and referral skins. Now you get prime capsules, chests, and a free orb every event they do. That’s tons of skins even if you take out prime.
Is this satire ?
I play many games and League is hands down the most drip-fed content wise out of them all, we have summoners rift for 95% of the year and that's it.
Same recycled passes on repeat and fin.
This must be satire lol
If I download dota 2 right now, a free game, I will have every hero unlocked for me, so no, league is not even close to being the game that gives you the most free stuff as you literally have to BUY THE BASICS
League is awesome if ur a pure F2P or spend less than $20 a year on skins, but the more money you spend, the worse the rewards are. I don't think I qualify for whale status but I have spent a decent amount of money on the game and have basically every skin I want. If I like a skin and its available in the shop, I'll buy it. The gacha skin with random skin rewards sprinkled in doesn't appeal to me, and a lot of the recent skin releases have missed the mark in terms of quality to me.
Its cool that we're getting more games, music vids, cinematics but I don't think we need $200 gacha skins or mass produced skinlines to accomplish that. Yes, there is some R&D stuff and other expenses that come with big music/animation projects, new games, etc. but to say that all of that must translate to a higher cost on consumers is silly. The music and animations re-engage players and draw in new players to try the game, I'm not saying they pay for themselves but it isn't just a money sink. New games cost money to develop but as we've seen with TFT chibis or the hundreds of valorant skins, once the games are out they are monetizable.
I agree that despite the shitty monetization, riot is probably the best gaming company/studio right now(at least for live service multiplayer games) -- that doesn't mean that we shouldn't still voice our concerns if we think they're doing a bad job. I'm not complaining because I hate riot and don't want to give them my money, I'm complaining because I DO want to give them my money but they aren't giving me enough ways to so without making me feel like a gambling addict. I want more high quality skins anywhere from the epic category all the way up to ultimates or mythics. I want to be able to pay $50 or $100 for the mythic variants in the shop directly instead of needing to roll for them and unlock random Udyr and tryndamere skins.
Describing league as “the most free rewards of any game I’ve ever played” makes it sound like you’re the one who hasn’t touched other games lol. As long as riot continues to make you buy champions the business model will be garbage.
i used to be a big fps gamer in the late 00s and early 10s
i was there when CoD introduced loot boxes in advanced warfare that literally gave you weapons with better stats that other variants and were enabled for professional play. Keep in mind you couldnt "buy" these variants you literally had to roll loot boxes until you got lucky
i was there when battlefield introduced shortcut kits which unlocked all weapons and gadgets for classes
hell i even played star wars battlefront 2 on launch
u guys have no idea how lucky u are
riot does a lot of scummy things, like most profit driven companies do, but one thing they've never done in any of their games, even a card game, is give people with money competitive advantage and imo thats all that should matter, the rest is extra, if lol was released in its current state nobody would complain it, people only complain because they got spoiled.
People forget how innovative the business model for League of legends was. League of legends was one of the first games to be totally free to play. They realized people like cosmetics and will buy them, so there’s no need to charge a subscription for the servers or include P2W. The fact that League has stuck by their guns and kept purchases strictly cosmetic all these years should be praised a lot more than it is.
It is the only competitive game that I can play without worrying about cheating. No wall hack or one shot kill.
Some might script but I don’t think I have seen more than three times in my league experience.
So I don’t mind they want us to buy more skins it’s a free to play game.
Whiteknighting the billion dollar company milking whales
I cant even
Also equating complains about costs to people being poor. This post is so incredibly lacking in critical reflection.
This is such a stupid dogshit take. Just because other companies will treat gamers worse doesn't mean we should let riot treat us poorly.
Riot has printed insane profits yoy every year on this game and rather than just being happy with the insane money they make they try for more any way possible. I understand that this is how capitalism is expected to work nowadays but we should not support it.
Edit: fixing autocorrect issues
I get on my friends about this. Bro you out here making minimum wage living in your moms house and dropping your checks on akali skins. Shit is stupid bro. Many people complain because of FOMO and they can’t or don’t want to take the financial hit for costumes. I got all the skins for my mains and probably only put money into league when they give those discounts on “my shop” or whatever it’s called since it’s catered to the characters you actually play. If you are patient and smart about your money you can get what you need. Don’t be a zombie consumer and HAVE to get shit right away.
I'm convinced some of you have no humany decency or empathy. The fact that "let the whales pay for it" is an accepted statement on this sub is disgusting to me.
The "Whales" are not always rich guys who can throw money at everything because they are bored.
There are also "Whales" who are just addicted to the game and have a vulnerable psyche.
Riot's new system attack everyone psyche, just because you can deal with it, it does not make you any sort of superior being.
And it certainly does not mean that just because someone can not resist the temptation and spends beyond their means it's on them.
They where vulnerable and got exploited by a company who does not care about their customers mental health.
And their fucking player base is gullible enough to defend them against critique by finger pointing to other games who are even worse.
You should stand up in protection for your fellow players who are not able to do so for themselves due to addiction and other factors.
Not fucking shield the billion dollar company to whom and addict and a Millionär are the same, a paying customer that can be milked.
I sure wish that all the money they made from their predatory microtransactions was spent on content like rotating game modes and not marketing materials...
> Do I hate tons of decisions Riot made? absolutely, does that include the 200$ skins? of course, but does it really matter in the end? No.
33 year old gamer here. You're wrong.
All of these things matter and when you let companies slide with it you always get worse things down the road. I remember when the map packs for CoD and Halo came out ages ago... there was a discussion about it in our crappy online space back then and ultimately most people kinda went along with it and bought the stuff. Early DLCs opened the door to worse and worse and worse stuff and now you have $200 single skins in games lol not full brand new maps but single skins that don't have any actual function...
People have been tricked into thinking this stuff doesn't matter but it does. I'll give Riot credit where credit is deserved and say most of their skins can just be earned through playing the game through key frags and boxes.
> Also, compared to other games, we're definitely doing wayyy better, people are acting like other games get so much free stuff, while skins there usually cost $1k+ and it's on Gacha with atrocious drop rates.
this is also a non-point. Comparing something not stellar to other things that are worse doesn't make the first thing suddenly fine. Again, Riot gets credit for ability to earn free stuff (it didn't used to be this way btw) but pricing is still pretty nuts with 1350 being default these days and quality being all over the place if we're being honest about what's on offer.
> Balance
Riot's balance is always contentious because League is a complex game with a lot of moving parts and if we're being insanely honest balance has ALWAYS been all over the place. I can't remember a worlds tournament with most champions picked, but I CAN remember multiple DOTA internationals where almost champion was picked... there's a massive difference in balance quality between the two games and honestly I think League does it on purpose to highlight specific playstyles and shakeup metas (like how Path of Exile was known to do that for the longest time), though that's a theory of mine and I have no proof they do this (But I remember tank meta, assassin meta, control mage meta, hyper carry meta, etc)
> Cosmetics are something you shouldn't be buying if you're on low income and if you do buy them it shouldn't be that frequent, you should always use money on what you can afford, if you need clothes as an average worker you don't buy Louis Vuitton clothes, you buy low cost brand clothes, usually at the thrift store
This is actually not true for a lot of people and less so with video games. One point of that being that they use POINTS instead of ACTUAL PRICE to show how much something is which tricks an astonishing amount of people into buying something (which we know is why they do it). Another point of this is people wanting to feel like they're not being left behind or left out of cool new things, or not wanting to be the poor kid at the table. Personally I think people need to find a way past that mentality but it's a pretty common thing people deal with and it can be hard for a lot of people to just have a default thing while so many other people have shiny new toys. This is more of a personal issue people have but I think showing some compassion rather than scolding people who are in that specific position is better.
> people still dont get the damn point, its not just "other games got it worse so its okay", its simpler than that - riot has to earn money to make all this content, we've got music videos, cinematics, constant updates upcoming games, games with net loss, esports, etc.
No, we get it. I think the pricing being higher sucks but ultimately if we're getting more out of them it's fine. The problem is that they don't really make it very clear to the average league player what the reason for price hikes actually is... they see their game not really getting improvements that go hand in hand with the price increases (because the money is getting funneled into other projects) and they don't understand why. ALSO as said previously it's very shitty that they don't just have the actual pricetag rather than riot points which we know is a misleading number.... or the fact that you have to buy set amounts rather than specific amounts leaving you with leftover points which for people with OCD like me is actually really bothersome lol (though point for people who have that problem, you used to be able to write riot customer service if you almost have enough for something and they'd give you the leftover points to buy it so you go down to 0)
ANYWAY Thought I'd address this post since it seems kinda aggro. I get that people complain a lot but you even address yourself about them not even being a good company (though I think they're not so bad either, just that they should do better).
Hope the rest of your year goes alright and we get some cool announcements and improvements going forward. Let's try to be a little more understanding and kinder toward one another in general... or not whatever lol
You know what's even more pathetic? Boot licking and defending a billion dollar company that doesn't care about you whatsoever.
Baffling that people think Riot is their friend, all they want is your money they don't give a single fuck about you as a person.
But sure dude go out and defend them, i'm sure the billion dollar company really needs people to defend it.
They’re trying to make all three of Serphine’s roles equal in power. But if the issue becomes because they nerfed her APC playstyle which also hurts her Mid, she will be weaker overall. Supoort will be stronger I guess but at the cost of mid and bot.
My complaint here is why is Riot catering towards the small minority of Seraphine supports (from the 31.21 patch notes) when she is currently being played as a mid/bot in a sense how she was intended. If they are trying to address her being strong in the bot role, sure, that’s fine.
CoD, WoW, HS, HotS, GoW series, Sonic Adventure Series, LoL, LoR, TfT, Valorant, Spider-Man series, Tekken series, Crash and Spyro series. what else do you need ?
"Free stuff" in other games is something like in-game currency that helps you progress along the storyline.
Not fucking cosmetics that most of the time you don't even care about.
I play a mobile gacha game that's known to be one of the greedier ones and they quite litearlly give at least x1000 more free stuff than league, and that's me being nice.
Not gonna read your rant but let me ask u this: if riot shits in your mouth are u willingy opening your mouth and eat it? Sure from time to time riot gives u a strawberry as an extra but its still shit.
How fucking far gone are we, as consumers of an industry, when one of our defenses for Riot is "well at least they don't make high schoolers spend $1000 on gacha pulls"
Jesus Christ this is absolute cancer. AngryJoe tried to warn us 10 years ago this shit would happen if people kept supporting microtransaction practices and here we are.
Other people for sure have said it before, but systems that cater to whales are slippery slopes that if not pushed back and forced out of a game become standard, that's why we have to complain and push back against predatory changes.
Not because we have it bad, but because it can become worse, because we can fall into gacha hell.
Thankfully the 200 dollar scam skins are just lazy chromas, but who could say if they'll start doing more ? Suddenly there's a 200 dollar unique skin for a really really popular champion like Lux or Seraphine which becomes a financial success and drives the game into more predatory practices, that's it, that's all it takes.
>I got one billion free skins so I don't care if they make super expensive skins
This is kinda the problem. No one minded when league charged for skins, you got a random sale every week or you bought the skin you wanted for $15
Now, the skin you actually *want* is $300 but you get random trash you don't care about every other day. I play Jungle and Top, if I get autofilled bot, I play tristana, anywhere else, I play Taliyah.
Riot could make all of the Jhin, Ryze and Katarina skins free, they would make the same amount of money from me, they could make all skins that are 2+ years old free and they'd probably make the same amount of money and that's basically what they've done, you get random skins for "free" but the new stuff they actually put effort into, the stuff you want, costs rediculous amounts of time and money.
When the new FOMO skin, comes out 1% of people get it for free with their free loot boxes, the other 99% don't get it, which is fine, but if you're one of the people who actually want a skin, who in the old version would just buy it for $15, you now have to keep buying boxes and on average, you spend WAY more than $15 and you get a mountain of trash before finally getting the skin you want.
The problem isn't "Oh you just want everything for free." The problem is that Riot is eliminating the small spender, they haven't done it yet, but they're moving resources away from the old "Just spend $15" model towards this "Either spend $0 or $300" model which, yes, gives players access to "more skins" but it burns choice
you, my friend, are the exact person Riot is looking for to continue having an excuse for bad and predatory monetization practices like "see????? there are players who want these things!!1!11!1!!!".
all we want is fair priced cosmetics my guy, nothing else, just like it used to be. the loot system is good but i tire getting skins on champs i don't play.
why can't i pay a fair price for a specific skin i want and instead either wait 2 years to reroll or pay an excessive amount to fuel gambling addiction.
just because they give some free stuff it doesn't mean we should all go "thank you my lord for your kindness" and shut up. cosmetics are the only monetization Riot has and it doesn't play into their advantage to stop listening to the community.
you say this now but wait until RP prices go up, more gatcha is introduced and free items slowly getting harder to acquire. you are fueling their corporate greed.
I miss the charity thing Riot used to do. when they released Championship ashe and the money went to charity. And we players also had a chance to choose the charity. I think it was a big success and if im not mistaken they have not done this in a while
Most insane pro-corporate cope ever. You yourself admit riot games in many ways isn't great. But to act like they're not already churning massive profits to warrant ambitious growth via expansions of the IP--such as Project L, Valorant, the MMO and of course the ever so costly Arcane--is childlike. If Riot was really doing these mythic chroma scams because they needed the money for something that might be not the best business decision but better for the consumer (e.g. producing hq, not rushed MMO, or making extremely high quality media like cinematics and Arcane), they would simply announce to the community that "all proceeds from this expensive cosmetic will go to support these initiatives", they would for all intents and purposes do that because who DOESN'T want to support a rare creative gem as Arcane? Riot is already cutting costs like crazy, laying off lore short story writers, making low-effort events, fixing the client and in game bugs on a need-to-function basis. The only reason why Riot is making these decisions is because such predatory pricing schemes have already been introduced and accepted elsewhere.
ok i ran out of energy to make this coherent but my god man money does not grow on trees, but riot is getting enough. they themselves admit that the amount of money coming in was the biggest in the past 2-3 years. so this is not a necessity for them to keep creating high quality content. they are just cutting corners, taking a more purely business growth focused direction rather than what's healthiest for their players.
Not true bro I play TFT as well
i play tft, i get cooked in tft i play league, i get cooked in league im tired man
Try LOR. I’m sure you’ll get cooked there too
Getting cooked by scum multicaster in Tft. Getting cooked in league because i am trash. Sadge.
They finally nerfing Multicaster :D Im so sick of this set. Go next pls.
You’d be sad to know today’s patch has a demacia bug and this is the new broken comp.
That's just a bug tho. I can live with bugs. They gonna get hotfixed in like a day.
They buffed Challenger and Fiora but 8 challenger still sux
now its scum demacia bug abuser WOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Is that real thing? I watch a few streamer but it seems not strong since they beat them.
Every day I get worse so I find myself just clicking rocks in osrs, hard to fuck that up tbh.
That’s why I take breaks with single player games lol get home from getting shit on all day at work to getting shit on in the game, naaaaahh maaan *Fires up starfield*
Come play LoR and get cooked by Updraft, Rally, and spell-shield! (Its actually an amazing game as someone who had no interested in card game and just wanted deeper LoL lore.)
Tired but well done amirite? (It's a joke about cooking steak... Just laugh)
Only other game I’ve tried is minesweeper. I don’t get why league has to have paid content if minesweeper doesn’t? I’m mad at Riot
I know minesweeper, always unlucky however . First click: instant mine.
valorant too
You underestimate my ability to reroll on Baldurs Gate
Bg3 made one thing I didn’t thought it was possible: it made 5e decent for martials
Making 5e decent for martials aka dropping broken weapons. I promise if you get strong weapons / other items, normal 5e martials are also very strong (at least until level 12)
“Until level 12”. Yeah, that’s the problem for martials. They need everything and their mothers to be decent until 60% of a progression, when they become little more than meat shield for the mage who can stop time and rain down meteors
95% of play is gonna be below level 12 though. Campaigns never make it to 20
So what's different in BG3 then? Even in later levels, martials have better single target damage I'm pretty sure, so it depends a lot on the opponents you face. Yeah, if you need to clear an army nothing beats meteors but if you're trying to murder a few dragons martials are definitely competitive.
To me the big differences in BG3 compared to 5e tabletop is that the utility spells have been nerfed whether directly or indirectly. So for example Hypnotic Pattern, a pretty staple fight winning spell in tabletop got nerfed down to a 2 turn duration. So while it is still a strong spell it is no longer an instant fight win if you land it. Banishment is another example as it only has a 2 turn duration as well. Also the games environments are most likely bigger than most people play on tabletop and it makes it harder to hit as many enemies with CC spells so you aren't controlling as many enemies. Martials have typically always held up in sustained single target damage it was always utility and AOE that they lacked. BG3 has nerfed a decent amount of the utility spells so it helps to make Martials keep up with mages.
Bg3 ends at lv 12 . That is a BIG difference powerwise. You said for example murdering a dragon: any dragon worth their name (because they are smart) will simply outmaneuver the martial with his own magical ability and flight, while the fighter/barbarian can attack the nothing 4 times in a row (or 8 if the fighter surges)
Pretty sure most people arent playing 5e at level 12 either. Sure some people run a super long campaign or just start high level but Ive been playing for a long time a 5-12 is where most games are played in my experience and from talking to other DMs. On the martials vs casters debate I find people who think martials are super underpowered and casters are busted dont really play that much and just theory craft stuff. Even at level 18 as a Wizard you get 4 level 1 spells 3 level 2-5 spells and only 1 each of 6-9 spells. Yeah those spells are crazy strong but you get 1 per long rest and you dont just get to power game rest whenever you want when you are playing 5e. Martials are strong all the time. That's why I think casters are actually only busted in BG3 where you can abuse long rests. In 5e there is the very real trade off of having limited resources
The reason that martial vs caster discussions exist in 5e is for a couple reasons, but one of them is that the limited resources issue that could theoretically put a limit on caster power doesn’t practically matter at most tables. People just don’t play in a way where their casters are actually going to run out of spells. The other reason is that, especially with wizards, spells can basically solve any problem, and probably better than a martial. Look at Knock - yeah you could have your ROGUE make a check to pick a lock. Or your wizard could do it for free, checkless. I know this is a spell you only get access to at 13th level, but Force Cage basically auto beats every enemy once you get it unless the enemy can specifically have an ability designed to mitigate it. Druids can summon a better fighter than an actual fighter. The list goes on and on. Spellcasters have much much better out of combat utility than martials in 5e, to the point a wizard could realistically solve at least 95% of situations thrown at them. Casters aren’t even hurting on damage either - example, fireball has been explicitly stated by WOTC to be deliberately overscaled for its level. Martials CAN do better ST damage, but in every other facet of the game they are worse than casters. And caster still do plenty of ST damage.
A huge issue as well that causes most people to view casters as better than martials, is most people don't use the number of recommended encounters between rests. IIRC, it's supposed to be something like 3 major encounters + 2 minors between long rests per balancing from WOTC. Since most groups that I've seen don't enforce this, they end up having more spells available per encounter than they should.
Yeah I was getting at this, and it’s definitely a contributing factor. Most DMs simply don’t write their stories that way. Some burden might be on the players, but I’d also argue it indicates that Wizards isn’t willing to acknowledge how their tables actually run given One DND is basically the same in that regard.
That's true, but from a DM's perspective it's not so easy to enforce that. I probably don't have time to run five encounters in one sitting. Telling players "you don't get to rest this play session, it'll take a real-life month for your spell to recharge" is disappointing for players, and players might mess up the bookkeeping.
> The reason that martial vs caster discussions exist in 5e is for a couple reasons, but one of them is that the limited resources issue that could theoretically put a limit on caster power doesn’t practically matter at most tables. People just don’t play in a way where their casters are actually going to run out of spells. Unless you give your martials access to free healing, trying to use spells per day against casters has stopped working after early levels since well before 5e. And once casters have access to strong out of combat spells, the DM doesn't set the pace of encounters anymore anyway, the casters do. DMs trying to enforce this will either piss off players or trigger an arms race of PCs looking to break the campaign. Realistically, there is no way to balance casters and martials and still have a game that resembles D&D. You can make casters *unfun* to play, as Pathfinder 2e does, but in the end they still hold the power from the mid levels onwards. You cannot both make a game system that describes worlds where magic is the only kind of power that matters and make non-magical characters relevant at high levels. It's just not happening.
I drew the comparison to level 12 exactly because that's when BG3 ends and you claimed they achieved the impossible by making martials playable until then.
Most games are not going past level 12 is the thing so its not really 60% of the progression. Almost every WOTC module only goes to hard 10-12 and thats not exactly a new phenomenon. The game breaking down at higher levels has been a thing for decades and in spin offs like pathfinder too.
That is why Eastern RPGs have Mage study lore while Martials cultivate. So a Martial can also cleave mountains and can 1 shot a Mage from 200 feets away if the Mage isn't ready. And both can Teleport, fly, heal etc.
Nah, martials must be REALISTIC! Yeah, realism in a world with flying dragons
That is why you should try a few Chinese Wu-Xia game on steam. When your sword swings can conjure fireball swarms strong enough to 1 shot a Dragon. Also, I don't know how Monk is doing in BG3, but in BGII they were absurd powerful. My MC was a Mage with a crack team of Waifus, and they end up getting killed in 10 seconds by the Monk-Bhaalspawn. Everything we cast didn't land. The literal Demogrogan was easier than that Monk.
>aka dropping broken weapons. someone hasn't played Monk 9 Thief 3, where the most broken weapons in the game are my "GOOD NITE" knuckle tattoos
A fucking martial-caster divide comment in the fucking league of legends sub
I keep seeing this over and over and over but in my games od dnd martial classes seems absolutely ok in comparison to spellcasters and maybe even better - amd i've been playing 5e for at least five years
What levels do you play? They are more or less equal until lv 12/13 usually
To be fair, like 95% of people have never even played beyond level 12 in tabletop dnd, so for the vast vast majority of people, martials and casters are actually pretty close.
Well, at least in my party campaigns went to lv 16 at least usually. I didn’t know it was so rare
It is pretty rare - just look at the level ranges for most published modules. Very rare to find anything that's reaching let alone surpassing level 15
It's not about being equals or not, it's that I have played other games based on D&D playstyle (mainly, OSR stuff and retroclones) and I was never able to enjoy martials or any kind of mundane character after playing them elsewhere. I'll always play a spellcaster in 5e, but I'll play a Warrior any time in WWN or similar stuff. They simply don't \*feel\* like they are "better at fighting" in 5e. They are just the guys with a lot of HP and some tricks to be capable even without using magic. But then a Spellcasters uses a well placed spell and they have done way more than you ever will.
When people complain about caster vs martial disparity it usually isn't in terms of damage its in terms of utility. Martials usually keep up or outpace mages in single target DPS but have zero utility anywhere else. Need to sneak inside a fortress? Casters cast Invisibilty/Pass without a Trace on everyone. Need to quickly make an exit after sneaking inside that fortress? Casters can dimension door/power word recall or at the very least drop a darkness/fog cloud to give you cover to escape. Camping out for the night in a dangerous forest? Ritual cast Tiny hut and now your safe. Trying to track down a murderer? Cast speak with dead on the victim and get some clues. Caught the murderer and want to interrogate them? Put them in a zone of truth. This is only scratching the surface as to what casters can do with their spells. Compare this to martials and I think it should be obvious how they lack in this department.
oh you reroll? i am a f5 -> f7 nerd
I reroll because I'm trying my 18th class combination and have 150 hours finishing act 1 and still haven't done every single scenario and finding new things.
You can swap classes or respec your current one for like 100g or something
You're not wrong, but if you do that, you can't *roleplay* as a *new character* with a different race and personality (who's gonna probably be basically just another trope, but yeah)!
F8 you mean? Hah nerd--- wait, does that make *me* the nerd?
Fun fact was Dota player numbers were most unaffected by baldurs gate unlike every other game in existence Moba players stick to their moba and nothing else
Because mobas are so different from anything else and needs you to be highly specialized and know so much stuff. I think
it might also be because mobas are easy to play in much smaller, discrete chunks (like one or two games). i rarely play league, and i only do it when i just want to take a 20 minute break from reality (to be clear i only play ARAM) - if i played baldur’s gate i’d sink hours into it per session, and i don’t really have the time or energy for that.
i disagree, moba forces u to sit through an 20-40min long match that u cant exit while rpgs like bg3 let u save and quit anywhere which makes them way more accessible in my book
Games like bg3 require mental and emotional investment and engagement that league does not. I could play bg3 and become exhausted from rereading dialogue over and over (I have severe adhd) or I could queue league and turn my brain off and let my 2000 hours of muscle memory do the work for me. I have an ever growing mountain of single player games that I want to play but I never do because of this.
League isn't really a "turn your brain off" kind of game unless you're in silver or playing normals or something i guess. In fact I'd argue you actually need to be *more* mentally engaged in a league match vs some single player game or mmo for the most part. I have adhd too and to me it sounds like those other games are a lot slower paced than a league match.
I agree with you. I should’ve clarified that I meant normals. I don’t play ranked that much anymore because it requires too much focus as well (also like 5 other reasons but not going into that here).
Well he's an adc player, I'm not saying that adc is a good role to autopilot on, but out of the 5 roles, as long as you got the hands, you can do a lot more autopiloting as an adc than say a jungler.
Different strokes for different folks I guess? I'm with you, personally. RPGs for me are just vibes while LoL makes my brain neurons go off like fireworks. I'm also a jungler that looks around the map always, so my average game might be an entirely different experience than the other guys
If I save and quit every 20 minutes in a beautiful single player game, there is no point to play that game (personally speaking). I play games like that to fully immerse myself and sink into that world. That is PRECISELY why games like League, not necessarily moba's but rather games with a general time-per-match, are super well-suited as a time buffer.
I don't think the heat death of the universe could affect Dota numbers
Can't let something small like the heat death of the universe stop you from your daily grind 💪💪
Specifically Dota 2 is like the most insular game in gaming. Twitch put out an infographic on it and Dota viewers view Dota almost exclusively, with very little overlap. They found the game they like, and boy do they like it.
To be fair that's just DOTA, when the first Overwatch beta came out all game playerbase everywhere dipped except DOTA, that game grips you unlike anything else.
Hello, I play Star Citizen
It's not like selling additional modules for my RSI Galaxy is predatory (this ship doesn't even exist in game)
I own that 😂
I've bought something which has changed in design significantly since I bought it, and still not confirmed/flyable. Banu Merchantman gang
At least it was dirty cheap for the ship it might become, I wish I bough Banu 10 years ago.
huh ive never heard of it, i didnt know there was a game called star citizen that existed
Hi star citizen :)
Hello Star Citizen, I play
“Play” and Star Citizen don’t really go together, it’s mostly a chat room to discord with friends and while you quantum jump around doing nothing in between game crashes or dying walking down some stairs.
Is this based off experience or?
As a person with over 1 million mastery points on Poppy, I can say that I do play other games. If I didn't, I would probably have closer to 2 million...
As a person with over 2 million mastery points on Fiora, I can confirm your theory. I don't play any other games.
Lootboxes, Gatchas and other ways to exploit the human psyche should be pushed back against no matter what. Some people here really need some fucking education about human psychology and how those things try to exploit it and are successful at it.
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I think the issue here is actually empathy and not a lack of knowledge. Most of the deranged posts I see on this site are just from people who never learned to see a perspective other than their own. So as long as the suffering of others doesn't impede their personal goals they feel no qualms ignoring it.
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As someone who works/helps with people who struggle with addiction, that's sadly the majority of the population. Whether is be drugs, alcohol, gambling, etc... most don't give a single fuck.
i can only imagine its because we're developed a fucked up narative that falling into any form of addiction is a fully personal failing and makes said person a loser in some way, rather than pointing at companies that pattent techniques specifically targeting people who are weak to addictive stims, people are hardcoded at this point to just blame the victims of said comapnies. it's wild
And no one wants to even consider the fact that a large percent of the population have straight up addictive tendencies/personalities. Like, that's their default setting. Along with so many other reasons that aren't really in your "control". -Children of addicts and/or victims of child abuse are more likely to suffer from addiction. -A large amount of mental illness suffer from substance abuse, Bipolar/Depression/BPD/ADHD/Anxiety/Schizophrenia/etc. -Stress. -And along with what you said, min/maxing people's emotions and dopamine receptors to create profit really doesn't help the addiction epidemic either. And this isn't even all of them. So many reasons for someone to fall into addiction. Treatment is also really difficult in a sense that it lowkey contradicts the "fully personal failing" ideology that people have surrounding addiction. Because someone who suffers from addiction will almost never truly never stay sober unless they really want to. But that doesn't mean they don't WANT to stay sober or are too weak to accomplish it. It's a difficult thing that no one will understand unless they experience it first hand, because even 2nd hand experiencing it through family/friends wont show you how difficult it is. We can give them all the resources, treatment, therapy, drugs, coping skills, support groups, but they have to choose to use them. It's a constant battle and a revolving door for a lot of them. I assume these gaming companies are doing all this bullshit now because they see changes in the future, just like regular gambling, and are just trying to get their bag while they can.
People saying "If you spent the money it's your own fault" as if companies pulling this aren't just allowing but RELYING on people ruining their lives with overspending. The inevitable end result is that Riot gets more money, and a small group of players suffer for the rest of their lives. Many of whom won't even know that it will get them hooked until it's already happened. The only way to know you're at risk of gambling addiction is to develop one! And Riot is perfectly happy to watch those people go up in flames to make their line go up!
It's like those people who always throw around the excuse of, "it'S jUST An OPtIONAL COSmeTic BrO. If YOU BUy IT YOur DumB." It's such a tone deaf response.
I just want to say I knew this moment would come, lootboxes were added BECAUSE the community wanted them. And even then they are the best implementation of lootboxes in any other F2P game on the market. We get a fuck ton of free lootboxes in a year, they all have bad luck protection, and there’s guaranteed rewards for buying them. No one is being exploited buying these lootboxes. Like think of shit like CS2, that’s an ACTUAL exploitive loot box system that preys on actual gambling habits. No bad luck protection, skins can be traded for real money, the difference between a good skin and a bad skin is like 30,000% in value. Riots is a fun little side thing, you’re not expected to dump thousands of dollars in them, they’ve even said that in the past.
That’s applicable to a lot of things though. The ranked ladder and all these shiny divisions are just there to exploit the human psyche. Maybe we should get rid of those as well? Or you can take it even further… the game itself is quite addicting isnt it? If you’re somehow addicted to collecting random non tradeable cosmetic item you are pretty fucked in the head. Thanks for helping keep the game free though
People are not addicted to the skins but the dopamine rush caused by the gambling for the reward. That’s how gambling works.
A great change would be if they stopped giving out free stuff completely!!! I am sure that would go home with the same people complaining about this!!!!
Free Hextech chests and the hextech crafting are a way to hook people in, yes.
So Riot should stop giving out free stuff right? So why is it that every time they nerf free stuff people complain? Why are those complainers not happy about how others won't get addicted now without those free hooks?
Obviously. I am pointing out that the same people outraged about this would not like the removal of free items either and that this rather is just a circlejerk of complaints by losers who hold no values. Same story over and over again they will never be satisfied by whatever change comes and whatever good has already come. it is all so sad.
The complaining is *precisely* the reason league is one of the better games. Under a profit-driven system, over time games essentially get as bad as the community lets them, and the fact that the league community complains a lot means that barrier is still pretty good
Agreed. It's also more beneficial to the community overall as it can bring good change whereas complaining about complainers literally provides nothing of value, and attempts to silence criticisms that could lead companies to improve the product. Comparing the game to gachas with worse practices to silence others is a worthless argument as there will always be others that have it worse. When you want something to be better you compare it to what's already better, not worse.
Asking billion dollars companies to be less greedy is never a bad thing Other developers being scummier doesn't make it ok
I agree with the idea, don’t agree with how riots being scummy. Wtf is scummy about putting out a skin for an insane price? Honestly asking. If it were something like priority on champ select or something that actually effects gameplay I would agree. But what’s scummy about a skin
It preys on psychology to convince people to buy it. Most people are not ok with spending $200 to buy a skin. However by using gacha mechanics, it preys on people who want to get lucky while having an insanely low natural drop-rate. As people spend more and more money trying to get lucky, the sunk cost-fallacy makes them want to commit to spending $200, when before if they were making an informed decision, they wouldn't.
>Also, compared to other games, we're definitely doing wayyy better, people are acting like other games get so much free stuff, while skins there usually cost $1k+ and it's on Gacha with atrocious drop rates. That is what Riot wants. That is why people are complaining. They're slowly sliding the scale until they can get away with doing the gacha shit (which they're not far off, btw). You're missing the point completely, instead complaining that people can see something you can't.
"Other companies are doing a worse thing so you are not allowed to complain" is the worst take to have as a user. It's so dumb. Riot can defend themselves. Companies are not your friends. The only reason League has stayed somewhat "good" on the monetization is because the users push back.
"there are kids starving in Africa" vibes from OP's post.
Why are people saying Musk is stupid? Twitter is doing so much better than Blockbuster!
same shit as "other people have it worse stop complaining" or "stop buying starbucks and avocado toast and only eat water and oatmeal to live" some people have passipn in their hobbies and some people are too dumb to know lmao
Except the scenarios aren't the same at all. One is the necesities to live that people aren't being allowed due to an exploitative system draining resources that people *need* for the sake of profit. The other is people complaining about not getting enough value from cosmetic items/enough free shit in a video game. The first one has merit for the people arguing against the "avocado on toast" bs. The second one is being entitled. You can be passionate, but ultimately 750/975 skins didn't sell and reduce the value of chests. And a company that's sole purpose is to make profit not giving you something completely optional, that has 0 effect on your wellbeing , for free isn't really comparible. If you don't like the value of the passes, don't buy them. If you can't afford a 1350 skin, realistically you shouldn't be spending your money on a 975/750 skin either. I'm no fan of many of riot's decisions over the years, but this really is just entitlement at this point. It's a game you can play completely for free, and have access to *premium* cosmetics completely for free. They have no obligation to provide this at all. Acting as though they do is acting like a spoiled child.
I mean the second one's kinda true tho. Stop buying starbucks.
Yeah but the difference is the core game is free. If lol cost £60 plus micro transactions then I get complaints and actually support the push back. It's a free game with paid transactions for cosmetics that they also give out for free. Riot 100% has it's issues. The way it's handled monetisation for the f2p games has been absolutely fine
There’s really nothing more cringe than people shilling for corporations. Always and forever they’re purely working on ways to extract more dollars from you. Never understood what compels anyone to rant about how kind and loving a corporation is.
The real problem of these gacha skins is that riot intentionally targets people with poor of self-control and plays on psychological tricks to take advantage of people. They exploit addiction behavior to extract maximum profit, similar to how casinos exploit gambling addictions. Not directly the price cost of the items themselves. Ofc Riot has had some good monetization for a while, and multiple other companies do much worse. Still, it is always a point of criticism when a company prays on addiction of people.
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this mentality is why other games r successful w pushing monetization, harder and harder.
Remember ages back when folks freaked out about the idea of horse armor dlc in oblivion? Y'know, because people were worried it was going to lead to increasingly worse business practices down the line? Crazy how things can come back around like that.
i know right, almost like allowing this stuff to continue successfully just leads to the problem becoming more exaggerated
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I mean that is reddit in a nut shell.
I play path of exile skins in lol are cheap af
Imagine spending 60 buck on an armor skin and then never seeing it because of perma elusive. Could'nt be me.
Mmm 70$ wings yummy...
In Path of Exile, you're not even on the same level as other players until you get stash tabs. The closest league equivalent would be rune pages.
PoE without stash tabs is basically a free trial and tabs are the base price.
This post summarizes the problems with the league community. Its just people hating on one part of the community and then hating back. Just because OP didnt spend money and got his skins for free doesnt mean the system isnt predatory and trying to lure the most money out of peoples pockets. Also what does it matter if we get skins "free" when we pay it forward by playing the game? We legit as a player are a resource for Riot. Who is going to spend money on a dead game that got no playerbase? OP also isnt adressing how Event passes gets devalued with each iteration while Riot is cranking up RP prices. Just cos other games got it "worse" doesnt mean we cant critizice Riot? Then he lists some things that are redundant af with 2 patches every week? Dude, see how the game gets stale like Overwatch if they dont shake things up and how people will stop playing it. Also the mess of League balancing is so atrocious if the meta gets stale people will realize how bad it is. Saying Riot is the best company we got in gaming clearly shows how OP should take his own thread in mind that he clearly dont touch any other games than league and has no idea.
You clearly don't understand how predatory (there is a reason they are callex exactly that) practices like Gacha elements, which is basically just gambling, are hyperoptimized by analaysts to press exactly the right psychological buttons and can lead to severe addiciton in vulnerable individuals. This post sounds to me like a non-smoker in the 90s arguing against a cigarette advertisement ban because "everyone has a free will and decides for themselves if they want to smoke". Yeah no, while our society and our technology advanced to incredible levels in the last 2000 years, our bodies and brain stayed pretty much the same. We have tools and means to analyze what increases the likelyhood of someone buying products and in the case of gambling mechanics, it preys on processes that can lead to a loss of control in certain vulnerable individuals. Your points about designer clothes completely misses the point that people criticize about the Mythic Variants. Comparing clothing to something potentially as addicting as gambling is incredibly ignorant in my opinion. Some people are way more vulnerable to addiction in any way or form, caused by factors out of their control, like genetics, personality traits and psychological wellbeing and I'm very much for lawmakers around the world to at least try to protect these vulnerable individuals from these practices just like we try to do from other harmful addictions like smoking.
Well said. EU is banning more and more gacha elements and I'm curious what will happen when this hits League. Only example I know currently is that if you're in Belgium, Apex Legend random lootboxes only give you crafting materials (that you can use to craft any skin) instead of random skins.
The entire deal with "they give lots of free stuff away" is very clever way for companies to make dimwits defend them Every single f2p game these days gives away a ton of free stuff. Why? Because all the psychologists/behaviour experts they hired showed them data and told them that giving people small amount of free stuff makes them stick with the game longer and actually open up the wallet. They are not giving it out of the kindness of their hearts. Anyone here played HotS? The game gave out more and more cosmetics for free as the growth stopped. As it is now, HotS has the best f2p cosmetic shop of any game that I know of. You earn the equivalent of "orange ssence" and you just go to the store and buy whatever you want instead of having to rely on luck and getting the shards. I play tons of games. I spend money on league. Doesn't mean I'm fine with them slowly turning the game into gatcha trash. They are just slowly stepping up their game and in a few years time we'll have chinese business model.
>League gives more free shit than any game I've ever played. Spotted the youngin. Games today are absolute dog shit when it comes to the predatory monetization.
Which tastes better, Riot's dick or their boot?
"Things could be worse" Also things could be a lot better, you even admit this multiple times! Why the fuck are you riding penis for a corporation? e: > Also, compared to other games, we're definitely doing wayyy better, people are acting like other games get so much free stuff, while skins there usually cost $1k+ and it's on Gacha with atrocious drop rates. That you aren't naming any games tells volume about you. e: [Ah I get it, you're a horrible human being.](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/17g4cyx/im_convinced_league_players_never_touched_any/k6ekxna/)
$hill post
oh nooo people have criticisms against a billion dollar company, how dare they.
Never understood this idea of this other game has it worse. Why does it matter if something was good and they added a change players dont like why cant they complain. It doesnt make it ok because "Ohh but this other game does it too".
"You can't complain because people in Africa have it worse" energy. This is coming from someone who actually doesn't really about this topic. I just hate that way of arguing as well.
Weird post. This is EVERY game that has a subreddit. Reddit is not emblematic of real life. People who post and interact here are more involved than your average player by a mile. Most players don’t even go on Reddit, and the ones that do MIGHT check it to see if the game is down or something, and they’ll do it without an account….maybe. Any subreddit for a game is gonna have the zealots who are hardcore addicted and play nothing else.
Well, at least subreddit people like call of duty or Poe or tarkov seems to have dabbled in a multitude of other games, even if they’re still tribal warring over why their game is just better. League is probably one of the largest subs where it feels like a significant amount people here barely even know about EA or Blizzard games outside they made stuff like WoW and FIFA. Course no data to back it up but you see some balance, monetization, content and feedback whine posts and it sorta does feel that way.
> but it's still the best company we got in the gaming industry Whoah whoah slow down buddy. Ultimately the best gaming company is the company which makes the best games and has good enough communication regarding their decisions. I don’t give a shit about skins, that’s not gameplay. “Balance patches” every 2 weeks are not for the sake of actual balance and do not make the game better or worse, it’s a cyclical shift in power of champions in league as a form of audience engagement. In terms of actual gameplay content there was a GIGANTIC drought before arena released and now that it’s gone under construction the same lack of gameplay applies. There’s plenty of games out there which are less buggy, have more content, and still have developers which communicate Some people here are extreme about their critique but this is the opposite end of the spectrum
Just because other games are bad, does not mean I will stay quiet and let my be.
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The multi billion dollar company is really happy that you defend its honor.
let me guess, here we have a 20-22 year old, feeling themself today. thinking they write up an "adult smart take" post but fall flat and in the end it is just some circle jerk and also somehow defending a gaming company with 0 substance arguments, just to shit on fellow players, at the same time. Good job. This whole "we do not deserve because other games/companies worse" is just so shortsighted and naive, I could cry.
As an ex $8K+ whale; I’ve been around since the beginning and love League of Legends as a whole. I actually don’t care at all Riot has made a $200 skin. But the fact the game feels more corporatized, hollow and just a vehicle for getting people to ONLY purchase drives me away from buying anything. It’s been two years and I would easily give money again if Riot changed its current path as a company. This year has been disappointing at best in terms of how they treat the community.
>Riot isn't exactly a good company So why cant we complain again? >but it's still the best company we got in the gaming industry Ah oké, first this is debatable Second just because there are other more shitty companys doesnt mean we dont get to complain, doesnt mean they cant still do better. Saying we cant complain because there is worse out there is saying we cant be happy because there is better out there. But no, pleasy keep defending the billion dollar company.
Ye the shit im reading in here is unreal, they literally give free skins and what you can buy with money is purely cosmetic. Rune pages used to be a bit p2w but they reworked them into not being. There's lots of valid criticism about the game but if there's one thing noone has any right to complain about it's the monetization which could be so much more predatory.
Meh, Dota2 gives all playable characters from the moment you open up the game But yes league is still very good by live service standards
That’‘s even more naive then the last take. People have no right to complain about monetization, that’s a fucking wild take.
Fr lol players getting mad whenever a champ is broken for two weeks is also so funny. There are tons of games out here that would be so fucking happy to get balance patches so often, and no Timothy, it isnt because the ennemy champ has 52% WR that you are stuck in silver.
Good old days where CoD shipped in the same state you’d still be playing it in to this day. From start to finish every goober in MW3 only ever played the ACR, MP7 and/or FMG9 akimbos. Imagine playing against Azir every other game since the day he released.
Imagine playing Warzone 2.0 and being forced playing RPK Fennec first 9 months LUL
Nah shit got patched in those games too like spam javelin kills
what an awesome circlejerk
This whole sub is a big ass circlejerk. Sadly there are no filter options and is still the best and only place to get relevant news about league unless you want to follow 200 Riot employees twitter accounts.
Criticism is not allowed!
Fascinating to watch the evolution of gaming communities, from bashing Bethesda endlessly for Oblivion horse armor to dickriding a billion dollar company to justify a $200 skin.
What content? We've only lost modes over the years (dominion, twisted treeline). Thank fuck nexus blitz is back, only 2 maps (more like 1 map) existing for a game with tens of millions of players is embarrassing.
lmfao "other games are dogshit so it's okay if League is dogshit" is some real brown nosing shit unlike you, the rest of us have fucking standards
How does the boot taste?
I’ve been playing league for 10 years and the skin debate means absolutely nothing to me. When I started we had to buy every skin except for victorious skins and referral skins. Now you get prime capsules, chests, and a free orb every event they do. That’s tons of skins even if you take out prime.
Is this satire ? I play many games and League is hands down the most drip-fed content wise out of them all, we have summoners rift for 95% of the year and that's it. Same recycled passes on repeat and fin. This must be satire lol
If I download dota 2 right now, a free game, I will have every hero unlocked for me, so no, league is not even close to being the game that gives you the most free stuff as you literally have to BUY THE BASICS
League is awesome if ur a pure F2P or spend less than $20 a year on skins, but the more money you spend, the worse the rewards are. I don't think I qualify for whale status but I have spent a decent amount of money on the game and have basically every skin I want. If I like a skin and its available in the shop, I'll buy it. The gacha skin with random skin rewards sprinkled in doesn't appeal to me, and a lot of the recent skin releases have missed the mark in terms of quality to me. Its cool that we're getting more games, music vids, cinematics but I don't think we need $200 gacha skins or mass produced skinlines to accomplish that. Yes, there is some R&D stuff and other expenses that come with big music/animation projects, new games, etc. but to say that all of that must translate to a higher cost on consumers is silly. The music and animations re-engage players and draw in new players to try the game, I'm not saying they pay for themselves but it isn't just a money sink. New games cost money to develop but as we've seen with TFT chibis or the hundreds of valorant skins, once the games are out they are monetizable. I agree that despite the shitty monetization, riot is probably the best gaming company/studio right now(at least for live service multiplayer games) -- that doesn't mean that we shouldn't still voice our concerns if we think they're doing a bad job. I'm not complaining because I hate riot and don't want to give them my money, I'm complaining because I DO want to give them my money but they aren't giving me enough ways to so without making me feel like a gambling addict. I want more high quality skins anywhere from the epic category all the way up to ultimates or mythics. I want to be able to pay $50 or $100 for the mythic variants in the shop directly instead of needing to roll for them and unlock random Udyr and tryndamere skins.
Describing league as “the most free rewards of any game I’ve ever played” makes it sound like you’re the one who hasn’t touched other games lol. As long as riot continues to make you buy champions the business model will be garbage.
“You can’t complain because others have it worse!”
I’ll say it… League of legends is a good game. I just hate playing it.
i used to be a big fps gamer in the late 00s and early 10s i was there when CoD introduced loot boxes in advanced warfare that literally gave you weapons with better stats that other variants and were enabled for professional play. Keep in mind you couldnt "buy" these variants you literally had to roll loot boxes until you got lucky i was there when battlefield introduced shortcut kits which unlocked all weapons and gadgets for classes hell i even played star wars battlefront 2 on launch u guys have no idea how lucky u are
riot does a lot of scummy things, like most profit driven companies do, but one thing they've never done in any of their games, even a card game, is give people with money competitive advantage and imo thats all that should matter, the rest is extra, if lol was released in its current state nobody would complain it, people only complain because they got spoiled.
People forget how innovative the business model for League of legends was. League of legends was one of the first games to be totally free to play. They realized people like cosmetics and will buy them, so there’s no need to charge a subscription for the servers or include P2W. The fact that League has stuck by their guns and kept purchases strictly cosmetic all these years should be praised a lot more than it is.
It is the only competitive game that I can play without worrying about cheating. No wall hack or one shot kill. Some might script but I don’t think I have seen more than three times in my league experience. So I don’t mind they want us to buy more skins it’s a free to play game.
Whiteknighting the billion dollar company milking whales I cant even Also equating complains about costs to people being poor. This post is so incredibly lacking in critical reflection.
Be careful not to choke while sucking off Riot so much. EDIT: Jesus Christ, looking at your comments here, you're legit a shitty human being.
Its still anti consumer. Stop making excuses for billion dollar companies that dont give a fuck about their fans.
Things have been getting worse and just because other companies can be worse doesn't mean things aren't shit.
This is such a stupid dogshit take. Just because other companies will treat gamers worse doesn't mean we should let riot treat us poorly. Riot has printed insane profits yoy every year on this game and rather than just being happy with the insane money they make they try for more any way possible. I understand that this is how capitalism is expected to work nowadays but we should not support it. Edit: fixing autocorrect issues
I get on my friends about this. Bro you out here making minimum wage living in your moms house and dropping your checks on akali skins. Shit is stupid bro. Many people complain because of FOMO and they can’t or don’t want to take the financial hit for costumes. I got all the skins for my mains and probably only put money into league when they give those discounts on “my shop” or whatever it’s called since it’s catered to the characters you actually play. If you are patient and smart about your money you can get what you need. Don’t be a zombie consumer and HAVE to get shit right away.
I'm convinced some of you have no humany decency or empathy. The fact that "let the whales pay for it" is an accepted statement on this sub is disgusting to me. The "Whales" are not always rich guys who can throw money at everything because they are bored. There are also "Whales" who are just addicted to the game and have a vulnerable psyche. Riot's new system attack everyone psyche, just because you can deal with it, it does not make you any sort of superior being. And it certainly does not mean that just because someone can not resist the temptation and spends beyond their means it's on them. They where vulnerable and got exploited by a company who does not care about their customers mental health. And their fucking player base is gullible enough to defend them against critique by finger pointing to other games who are even worse. You should stand up in protection for your fellow players who are not able to do so for themselves due to addiction and other factors. Not fucking shield the billion dollar company to whom and addict and a Millionär are the same, a paying customer that can be milked.
I sure wish that all the money they made from their predatory microtransactions was spent on content like rotating game modes and not marketing materials...
> Do I hate tons of decisions Riot made? absolutely, does that include the 200$ skins? of course, but does it really matter in the end? No. 33 year old gamer here. You're wrong. All of these things matter and when you let companies slide with it you always get worse things down the road. I remember when the map packs for CoD and Halo came out ages ago... there was a discussion about it in our crappy online space back then and ultimately most people kinda went along with it and bought the stuff. Early DLCs opened the door to worse and worse and worse stuff and now you have $200 single skins in games lol not full brand new maps but single skins that don't have any actual function... People have been tricked into thinking this stuff doesn't matter but it does. I'll give Riot credit where credit is deserved and say most of their skins can just be earned through playing the game through key frags and boxes. > Also, compared to other games, we're definitely doing wayyy better, people are acting like other games get so much free stuff, while skins there usually cost $1k+ and it's on Gacha with atrocious drop rates. this is also a non-point. Comparing something not stellar to other things that are worse doesn't make the first thing suddenly fine. Again, Riot gets credit for ability to earn free stuff (it didn't used to be this way btw) but pricing is still pretty nuts with 1350 being default these days and quality being all over the place if we're being honest about what's on offer. > Balance Riot's balance is always contentious because League is a complex game with a lot of moving parts and if we're being insanely honest balance has ALWAYS been all over the place. I can't remember a worlds tournament with most champions picked, but I CAN remember multiple DOTA internationals where almost champion was picked... there's a massive difference in balance quality between the two games and honestly I think League does it on purpose to highlight specific playstyles and shakeup metas (like how Path of Exile was known to do that for the longest time), though that's a theory of mine and I have no proof they do this (But I remember tank meta, assassin meta, control mage meta, hyper carry meta, etc) > Cosmetics are something you shouldn't be buying if you're on low income and if you do buy them it shouldn't be that frequent, you should always use money on what you can afford, if you need clothes as an average worker you don't buy Louis Vuitton clothes, you buy low cost brand clothes, usually at the thrift store This is actually not true for a lot of people and less so with video games. One point of that being that they use POINTS instead of ACTUAL PRICE to show how much something is which tricks an astonishing amount of people into buying something (which we know is why they do it). Another point of this is people wanting to feel like they're not being left behind or left out of cool new things, or not wanting to be the poor kid at the table. Personally I think people need to find a way past that mentality but it's a pretty common thing people deal with and it can be hard for a lot of people to just have a default thing while so many other people have shiny new toys. This is more of a personal issue people have but I think showing some compassion rather than scolding people who are in that specific position is better. > people still dont get the damn point, its not just "other games got it worse so its okay", its simpler than that - riot has to earn money to make all this content, we've got music videos, cinematics, constant updates upcoming games, games with net loss, esports, etc. No, we get it. I think the pricing being higher sucks but ultimately if we're getting more out of them it's fine. The problem is that they don't really make it very clear to the average league player what the reason for price hikes actually is... they see their game not really getting improvements that go hand in hand with the price increases (because the money is getting funneled into other projects) and they don't understand why. ALSO as said previously it's very shitty that they don't just have the actual pricetag rather than riot points which we know is a misleading number.... or the fact that you have to buy set amounts rather than specific amounts leaving you with leftover points which for people with OCD like me is actually really bothersome lol (though point for people who have that problem, you used to be able to write riot customer service if you almost have enough for something and they'd give you the leftover points to buy it so you go down to 0) ANYWAY Thought I'd address this post since it seems kinda aggro. I get that people complain a lot but you even address yourself about them not even being a good company (though I think they're not so bad either, just that they should do better). Hope the rest of your year goes alright and we get some cool announcements and improvements going forward. Let's try to be a little more understanding and kinder toward one another in general... or not whatever lol
Oh no I must defend the multi-million dollar company for their shitty decisions. Just gtfo lil bro
You know what's even more pathetic? Boot licking and defending a billion dollar company that doesn't care about you whatsoever. Baffling that people think Riot is their friend, all they want is your money they don't give a single fuck about you as a person. But sure dude go out and defend them, i'm sure the billion dollar company really needs people to defend it.
Are you mentally challenged? Or on meth? What in the fuck did I just read?
This game literally offers nothing but new aesthetic every month and a new character each 4-5
They’re trying to make all three of Serphine’s roles equal in power. But if the issue becomes because they nerfed her APC playstyle which also hurts her Mid, she will be weaker overall. Supoort will be stronger I guess but at the cost of mid and bot. My complaint here is why is Riot catering towards the small minority of Seraphine supports (from the 31.21 patch notes) when she is currently being played as a mid/bot in a sense how she was intended. If they are trying to address her being strong in the bot role, sure, that’s fine.
CoD, WoW, HS, HotS, GoW series, Sonic Adventure Series, LoL, LoR, TfT, Valorant, Spider-Man series, Tekken series, Crash and Spyro series. what else do you need ?
"Free stuff" in other games is something like in-game currency that helps you progress along the storyline. Not fucking cosmetics that most of the time you don't even care about. I play a mobile gacha game that's known to be one of the greedier ones and they quite litearlly give at least x1000 more free stuff than league, and that's me being nice.
Playing since 2017 lol… those are rookie numbers!!
Oh my god player defending a million dollar corporate company, so brave!
Riot is the best company in the video game industry? Did you really just type that out?
Not gonna read your rant but let me ask u this: if riot shits in your mouth are u willingy opening your mouth and eat it? Sure from time to time riot gives u a strawberry as an extra but its still shit.
Oh god the bootlicking
How fucking far gone are we, as consumers of an industry, when one of our defenses for Riot is "well at least they don't make high schoolers spend $1000 on gacha pulls" Jesus Christ this is absolute cancer. AngryJoe tried to warn us 10 years ago this shit would happen if people kept supporting microtransaction practices and here we are.
There's nothing quite like opening another thread to complain about another thread.
leave the billion dollar company alone
Other people for sure have said it before, but systems that cater to whales are slippery slopes that if not pushed back and forced out of a game become standard, that's why we have to complain and push back against predatory changes. Not because we have it bad, but because it can become worse, because we can fall into gacha hell. Thankfully the 200 dollar scam skins are just lazy chromas, but who could say if they'll start doing more ? Suddenly there's a 200 dollar unique skin for a really really popular champion like Lux or Seraphine which becomes a financial success and drives the game into more predatory practices, that's it, that's all it takes.
Do not pretend 200$ GAMBLING skins isn't absolutely awful.
>I got one billion free skins so I don't care if they make super expensive skins This is kinda the problem. No one minded when league charged for skins, you got a random sale every week or you bought the skin you wanted for $15 Now, the skin you actually *want* is $300 but you get random trash you don't care about every other day. I play Jungle and Top, if I get autofilled bot, I play tristana, anywhere else, I play Taliyah. Riot could make all of the Jhin, Ryze and Katarina skins free, they would make the same amount of money from me, they could make all skins that are 2+ years old free and they'd probably make the same amount of money and that's basically what they've done, you get random skins for "free" but the new stuff they actually put effort into, the stuff you want, costs rediculous amounts of time and money. When the new FOMO skin, comes out 1% of people get it for free with their free loot boxes, the other 99% don't get it, which is fine, but if you're one of the people who actually want a skin, who in the old version would just buy it for $15, you now have to keep buying boxes and on average, you spend WAY more than $15 and you get a mountain of trash before finally getting the skin you want. The problem isn't "Oh you just want everything for free." The problem is that Riot is eliminating the small spender, they haven't done it yet, but they're moving resources away from the old "Just spend $15" model towards this "Either spend $0 or $300" model which, yes, gives players access to "more skins" but it burns choice
you, my friend, are the exact person Riot is looking for to continue having an excuse for bad and predatory monetization practices like "see????? there are players who want these things!!1!11!1!!!". all we want is fair priced cosmetics my guy, nothing else, just like it used to be. the loot system is good but i tire getting skins on champs i don't play. why can't i pay a fair price for a specific skin i want and instead either wait 2 years to reroll or pay an excessive amount to fuel gambling addiction. just because they give some free stuff it doesn't mean we should all go "thank you my lord for your kindness" and shut up. cosmetics are the only monetization Riot has and it doesn't play into their advantage to stop listening to the community. you say this now but wait until RP prices go up, more gatcha is introduced and free items slowly getting harder to acquire. you are fueling their corporate greed.
ok riot h1devil
*cries in Overwatch*
I miss the charity thing Riot used to do. when they released Championship ashe and the money went to charity. And we players also had a chance to choose the charity. I think it was a big success and if im not mistaken they have not done this in a while
[удалено]
Honkai Impact 3rd, Honkai Star Rail, Genshin Impact, Monster Hunter! Those are my addictions.
Most insane pro-corporate cope ever. You yourself admit riot games in many ways isn't great. But to act like they're not already churning massive profits to warrant ambitious growth via expansions of the IP--such as Project L, Valorant, the MMO and of course the ever so costly Arcane--is childlike. If Riot was really doing these mythic chroma scams because they needed the money for something that might be not the best business decision but better for the consumer (e.g. producing hq, not rushed MMO, or making extremely high quality media like cinematics and Arcane), they would simply announce to the community that "all proceeds from this expensive cosmetic will go to support these initiatives", they would for all intents and purposes do that because who DOESN'T want to support a rare creative gem as Arcane? Riot is already cutting costs like crazy, laying off lore short story writers, making low-effort events, fixing the client and in game bugs on a need-to-function basis. The only reason why Riot is making these decisions is because such predatory pricing schemes have already been introduced and accepted elsewhere. ok i ran out of energy to make this coherent but my god man money does not grow on trees, but riot is getting enough. they themselves admit that the amount of money coming in was the biggest in the past 2-3 years. so this is not a necessity for them to keep creating high quality content. they are just cutting corners, taking a more purely business growth focused direction rather than what's healthiest for their players.