There are two things that bother me with junglers. Most don't understand wave state and matchups in top lane and flame when you lose prio to Darius early levels.
Second, will flip the game over grubs min 5 or a gromp invade, as a result.
I agree, but I'd say that the jungler has more freedom for such "missplay". Going for grubs without prio doesn't look like a mistake and sometimes isn't. Involving the whole team in an unfavorable skirmish could result in instant loss.
Diving a full HP opponent by a laner, gives a kill and that's it.
The problem is the same with all these posts, some position one trick says the position is actually weak and the rest of the team is the problem. It's getting real old at this point
I completely ignore the people who day that 10 mins in when I'm 3-0 setting up for 2nd dragon.
I also make a point to help other lanes when they complain.
Im fine with the role beeing team reliant to take obj and make plays since you can impact the whole map. What annoy me is the fking xp system, it is NOT normal to be same/ 1 lvl ahead as ennemy jgl when you you re 7 0 and he did nothing but suck on laner’s xp so he is even in lvl. It blows my mind how this can be allowed, i want to be able to gap my opponent, feel that my effort at shutting him down have paid off. Right now it is just ridiculous that someone with more kills more farm, can’t put xp his opponent
Jungle, just like any role, is simply what you make it. Jungle being OP comes down to it having some of, if not the strongest champions that can get the most done. If you ever played a game where you abosultely rolled the enemy team tell me Jungle wasn't involved most of the time
I've been involved in tons of games that were laner diff and not jg diff. The biggest difference is laners get so much more resources so when they gap people it's a much bigger deal.
Exactly. I'd also like to point out laners having a lot of impact as well when you consider they're constantly involved with the enemy, whilst a jungler is involved with his jungle camps and decision making majority of the time. Laners don't see it that way though, they only see through the lens of a victim of a majority group, so their opinions are inflated in an echo chamber. Reminds me of this meme https://youtu.be/eNiR5ZTb_MA
Yup, the laners that say this stuff just have no idea how fucked jg becomes if your mid or top or bot loses on their own and if that enemy laner knows what to do. Even a roaming support can completely fuck jg, the enemy mid plus jg can make your game impossible and a top laner that gets a solo kill can 2v1 your top and jg for the rest of the game.
Like when I play ww top, solo kill my enemy top, the game is so much easier to snowball than if I'm playing ww jg.
There's a reason why jg gets next too 0 resources in proplay and you rarely see carry jgs. The entire role is engage support part two or early game cheesy jgs because you get less resources than the actual support because riot loves support items.
> The entire role is engage support part two or early game cheesy jgs
This made me laugh cus its so true. In pro play you see junglers stuck on 2 items while everyone damn near full build
Even in this post alone the opinion will be 4-1 lol, that's a reality junglers face as a minority group. We can just hope for rational laners to see it from an unbiased perspective. Then we have Phreak saying jungle is op without providing any evidence whatsoever, many jungle streamers are saying it's weak, it feels weak when you play it. Junglers aren't even primarily at the top of the solo Q ladders, it's solo laners, so where is this narrative that jungle is Sooooo op coming from? It's 100% an echo chamber of biased opinion by majority laners.
Funnily i saw a post about Phreak role swapping to support and reaching GM while he was hardstuck Diamond on ADC not long ago, goes to show where ADC and Jungler are on the rankings.
It's funny, there's so many comments in that thread saying stuff like, jg is op when you have laners with pressure and know their roam timings. Like, what? They don't understand how contradictory this is.
Laners are the ones who enable the jg to make plays, people just don't understand this in the slightest. Support is legit a better ganking role than jg lol
>Support is legit a better ganking role than jg lol
Like it's not even funny, why u think Phreak swap to support and suddenly got GM. Most elo inflated role by far!
Bro its honestly so cringe at this point, the multi billion dollar company can't even invest in high elo players to consult with for balancing of the roles, much less correcting public opinion about them. Instead we get fucking Phreak contributing to this bullshit narrative about jungle being OP without a SHRED OF EVIDENCE to back his claim. A former ADC main now swapping to SUPPORT, not JUNGLE (THE SO CALLED MOST OP ROLE IN THE GAME RAWWWRRR) no he swapped to support and hit GM, yeah bro jungle so op!
The big problem with the role is the absurd impact a JGL Diff has on the game.
Autofill also adds to the issue.
Like dealing with a fed Top/Mid/ADC is always fine, there is still a lot of skill expression on both sides necessary to claim the win.
A JGL with an early lead just ends the game, there is nothing to be done.
it doesn't matter how much better you are than your opponent, an ahead JGL can simply decide for you to not play the game and that's it.
OFC that result in frustration for everyone involved.
Honestly, JGL being OP and JGL being frustrating to play is no contradiction what so ever, in fact it's the exact same thing.
#############
Also I think JGL role offers very little skill-progression outside of watching guides.
JGL has so many plays they can make that completely fuck them self and/or their teammates in the long run but they simply don't know because they have no feedback for it other than: "Yay got kill, play was good"
Jungler is still the most impactful role that decides the game the most. Does not matter how much laners cry for ganks or blames junglers. Role is miserable to play though but it's by far the best way to have impact on the map.
Well i agree but also disagree, a jungler's impact is contingent on his laners, this doesn't mean the jungler has no say in how it goes, but you can't make a play without them being involved in some way unless you want to int ofc. And also the impact of a jungler falls off post lane phase unless you're playing a hyper scaler which in that case your early game tanks the impact. So i think it's quite balanced. Laners get to cry 4-1 and this is what i truly believe sways public opinion on jungle being "op", in reality it's closer to balanced and imo i would say weaker than solo lanes.
I think jungle get a bad rep because of how much they have on their plate vs the laners. Like, there are camps, ganks, scuttle, warding, objs, enemy resources, the enemy jungler. All laners have to do is stay in lane but I tend to see people roaming and exploring and abandoning lane before their opposing turret is down.
Its true jungle is the hardest role macro wise. When i lane i get so bored cus im just sitting there, might trade with enemy laner every 10 seconds or so. When i play jungle my mind is constantly racing on what decision to make, where the enemy jungler is pathing to, what he might do, how or if i could counter him, if i should do X and reverse path, how would i play it mechanically if X player showed up, looking at my lanes to see lane states..... like there's so much shit u need to think about, at least at high daimond+ i
Feast or famine is a reality in the jungle, this is why catchup exp existed so heavily in the past but they removed it by a lot.
But i would say feast or famine exists for laners as well, especially top laners in a counter matchup, it can feel impossible to do anything. So i wholeheartedly disagree with your take.
meanwhile theres me on toplane just trying to chill and 1v1 on ksante but every jungler+supp is obsessed with fighting 4v4 at grubs..
A struggle only real ksante players understand
There are two things that bother me with junglers. Most don't understand wave state and matchups in top lane and flame when you lose prio to Darius early levels. Second, will flip the game over grubs min 5 or a gromp invade, as a result.
Its a two way streak, junglers can say the same for cluless laners. That's an inherent solo Q issue, not a role strength issue.
I agree, but I'd say that the jungler has more freedom for such "missplay". Going for grubs without prio doesn't look like a mistake and sometimes isn't. Involving the whole team in an unfavorable skirmish could result in instant loss. Diving a full HP opponent by a laner, gives a kill and that's it.
The problem is the same with all these posts, some position one trick says the position is actually weak and the rest of the team is the problem. It's getting real old at this point
I completely ignore the people who day that 10 mins in when I'm 3-0 setting up for 2nd dragon. I also make a point to help other lanes when they complain.
Weaksided ornn instantly invalid opinion
Weakside William rolling in his retired grave.
r/theydidthemath
Then it shouldn't be hard to present it.
Im fine with the role beeing team reliant to take obj and make plays since you can impact the whole map. What annoy me is the fking xp system, it is NOT normal to be same/ 1 lvl ahead as ennemy jgl when you you re 7 0 and he did nothing but suck on laner’s xp so he is even in lvl. It blows my mind how this can be allowed, i want to be able to gap my opponent, feel that my effort at shutting him down have paid off. Right now it is just ridiculous that someone with more kills more farm, can’t put xp his opponent
Jungle, just like any role, is simply what you make it. Jungle being OP comes down to it having some of, if not the strongest champions that can get the most done. If you ever played a game where you abosultely rolled the enemy team tell me Jungle wasn't involved most of the time
I've been involved in tons of games that were laner diff and not jg diff. The biggest difference is laners get so much more resources so when they gap people it's a much bigger deal.
Exactly. I'd also like to point out laners having a lot of impact as well when you consider they're constantly involved with the enemy, whilst a jungler is involved with his jungle camps and decision making majority of the time. Laners don't see it that way though, they only see through the lens of a victim of a majority group, so their opinions are inflated in an echo chamber. Reminds me of this meme https://youtu.be/eNiR5ZTb_MA
Yup, the laners that say this stuff just have no idea how fucked jg becomes if your mid or top or bot loses on their own and if that enemy laner knows what to do. Even a roaming support can completely fuck jg, the enemy mid plus jg can make your game impossible and a top laner that gets a solo kill can 2v1 your top and jg for the rest of the game. Like when I play ww top, solo kill my enemy top, the game is so much easier to snowball than if I'm playing ww jg. There's a reason why jg gets next too 0 resources in proplay and you rarely see carry jgs. The entire role is engage support part two or early game cheesy jgs because you get less resources than the actual support because riot loves support items.
> The entire role is engage support part two or early game cheesy jgs This made me laugh cus its so true. In pro play you see junglers stuck on 2 items while everyone damn near full build Even in this post alone the opinion will be 4-1 lol, that's a reality junglers face as a minority group. We can just hope for rational laners to see it from an unbiased perspective. Then we have Phreak saying jungle is op without providing any evidence whatsoever, many jungle streamers are saying it's weak, it feels weak when you play it. Junglers aren't even primarily at the top of the solo Q ladders, it's solo laners, so where is this narrative that jungle is Sooooo op coming from? It's 100% an echo chamber of biased opinion by majority laners. Funnily i saw a post about Phreak role swapping to support and reaching GM while he was hardstuck Diamond on ADC not long ago, goes to show where ADC and Jungler are on the rankings.
It's funny, there's so many comments in that thread saying stuff like, jg is op when you have laners with pressure and know their roam timings. Like, what? They don't understand how contradictory this is. Laners are the ones who enable the jg to make plays, people just don't understand this in the slightest. Support is legit a better ganking role than jg lol
>Support is legit a better ganking role than jg lol Like it's not even funny, why u think Phreak swap to support and suddenly got GM. Most elo inflated role by far! Bro its honestly so cringe at this point, the multi billion dollar company can't even invest in high elo players to consult with for balancing of the roles, much less correcting public opinion about them. Instead we get fucking Phreak contributing to this bullshit narrative about jungle being OP without a SHRED OF EVIDENCE to back his claim. A former ADC main now swapping to SUPPORT, not JUNGLE (THE SO CALLED MOST OP ROLE IN THE GAME RAWWWRRR) no he swapped to support and hit GM, yeah bro jungle so op!
The big problem with the role is the absurd impact a JGL Diff has on the game. Autofill also adds to the issue. Like dealing with a fed Top/Mid/ADC is always fine, there is still a lot of skill expression on both sides necessary to claim the win. A JGL with an early lead just ends the game, there is nothing to be done. it doesn't matter how much better you are than your opponent, an ahead JGL can simply decide for you to not play the game and that's it. OFC that result in frustration for everyone involved. Honestly, JGL being OP and JGL being frustrating to play is no contradiction what so ever, in fact it's the exact same thing. ############# Also I think JGL role offers very little skill-progression outside of watching guides. JGL has so many plays they can make that completely fuck them self and/or their teammates in the long run but they simply don't know because they have no feedback for it other than: "Yay got kill, play was good"
Jungler is still the most impactful role that decides the game the most. Does not matter how much laners cry for ganks or blames junglers. Role is miserable to play though but it's by far the best way to have impact on the map.
Well i agree but also disagree, a jungler's impact is contingent on his laners, this doesn't mean the jungler has no say in how it goes, but you can't make a play without them being involved in some way unless you want to int ofc. And also the impact of a jungler falls off post lane phase unless you're playing a hyper scaler which in that case your early game tanks the impact. So i think it's quite balanced. Laners get to cry 4-1 and this is what i truly believe sways public opinion on jungle being "op", in reality it's closer to balanced and imo i would say weaker than solo lanes.
I think jungle get a bad rep because of how much they have on their plate vs the laners. Like, there are camps, ganks, scuttle, warding, objs, enemy resources, the enemy jungler. All laners have to do is stay in lane but I tend to see people roaming and exploring and abandoning lane before their opposing turret is down.
Its true jungle is the hardest role macro wise. When i lane i get so bored cus im just sitting there, might trade with enemy laner every 10 seconds or so. When i play jungle my mind is constantly racing on what decision to make, where the enemy jungler is pathing to, what he might do, how or if i could counter him, if i should do X and reverse path, how would i play it mechanically if X player showed up, looking at my lanes to see lane states..... like there's so much shit u need to think about, at least at high daimond+ i
Jungler role is op. Jun diff is harder than any other role
Feast or famine is a reality in the jungle, this is why catchup exp existed so heavily in the past but they removed it by a lot. But i would say feast or famine exists for laners as well, especially top laners in a counter matchup, it can feel impossible to do anything. So i wholeheartedly disagree with your take.
Holy shit that feast of famine mentality in the last patch is just so true.... I wanna die when it is famine for me.