No no, you don't understand. You're supposed to just slam that Moonflair Spellblade on Darius and maker a sUper WhAcKy on-hit AP Darius build!
Only to get absolutely shitstomped by people with real prismatics for their champ and go fast 8th.
There’s too many rounds between being able to buy items. Wacky builds can’t get off the ground because it takes too long to get them going. The stat shard round makes it even worse.
This is the real issue. Wacky builds CAN WORK but when you're sitting on that moonflair soellblade + 1 item for over half the game you're not wacky building shit
Imo they just need to hand out more gold and remove the stat round. Ppl who want stat shards will buy them and ppl who want to save for items or don't know about stat shards can buy items
Ive been wanting this from the start. When it takes 40 rounds to make that wacky build happen, you either gotta skill gap 7 other teams until that point or pray rng gives you *exactly* what you're looking for.
Add onto this that I know they are trying to keep Arena games short, but the fact that you can be full-outed before even doing a full round-robin REALLY means if you don't win early you just fast 8 and go next. It's very easy to just get kicked out of a game before you ever make it if you roll bad team draws one too many times.
IDK what people's obsession is with wacky builds. Like wacky builds has always been an URF thing since you can spam your abilities. In Arena you can make the most OP builds with these new items and prismatics. And if it's OP I wouldn't classify it as wacky.
the unkillable on hit heal urgot from last season of arena is definitely one of the whacky builds and it actually worked kinda, those builds are the whacky funny builds, nobody wants to go against a sweating bel veth with 8.5 attack speed at the 6th round, and riot themselves said they wanna aim to be able to allow whacky builds
There is a mode balance "buff" icon on Champions. At the moment all of them just states, "perfectly balanced".
I imagine we're going to see some changes to at least nerf the bunch their data indicates as OP
As someone who has played literally every champion from a-z: Yes they can.
I think trundle is the only one of those that is actually a hard matchup, but he can easily be kited by anyone with cc or range, or banned if you wish. The rest are not bad, especially Yi jax swain are quite easy for me now.
(I say this to assist you having more fun in the mode)
i have met an yi with mystic punch, mirage blade and firebrand, after his first q you could no longer see him as he pretty much was permanently invulnerable and also applied 4-5 stacks of firebrand every q, point is, you're talking out of your ass, some combos are just unbeatable and prismatic items just make it worse compared to the old arenas where some augment combos were already unbeatable
Check my other reply.
Yes that yi high rolled and got a 1/32 amazing augment. So what? No one else in the lobby has it.
Either cc him after first q or play for 2nd place. Winning isn't the only goal here, top 4 is a win. You don't have to beat yi to have a victory.
Yes I have played 200+ games now and I am happy to share my thoughts to help you have more fun. The only one stopping you finding a way to enjoy it is yourself.
I think you played a different gamemode. If you dont hit augment jackpot with 60-70% of the roster, you're useless garbage. Kiting is impossible when everything has tons of ms and dishes out cc like hot bread.
There are many reasons why I disagree but I will just give you one to prove that it doesnt matter.
There are 16 players per game, and maybe 1-2 of them will hit this 'jackpot' you are referring to. Everyone else will have a mix of good, ok or bad selections.
Even the best champs suck with bad augments, e.g Trundle without attack speed/damage/range etc.
So all you have to do to get a good placement is get an average role - which will happen every game.
Skill + smart play and adapting to the matchup is the rest of it. For example earlier I got a terible zeri roll so I decided to take sunderer and go health stacking tank. It was amazing and I never got killed by any of these bruisers as I was more bruiser than them. Even though the tank zeri build is 'dead' - it worked great. All I had to do was play to counter the enemies and what they got.
Best of luck
We are not talking about stuff that is remotely viable. Almost every ad champ can build kinda offtank. Bruiser Zeri is not some terrible useless thing but go on and play AD or a heal build on 80% of the mage roster.
There are champions that can build offmeta and there are champs that only have one viable build path. Yes you can play a whacky on hit Elise build or bruiser Elise. You can't play Ad/onhit/tank Syndra and no you can't build AP Darius.
So no. Going Bruiser Zeri doesn't at all proof your point because it is a remotely viable build and taking that for your definition of "terrible Zeri roll" is questionable.
Edit.: I have literally no problem with whacky offmeta builds as long as they are atleast a bit functional. No I don't want ap on my Garen, no matter what. Im fine getting a crit Garen, Im fine getting an on hit Garen, I'm not fine playing ap Vayne.
It's not a very good point to say 'but my ad yuumi can't beat a perfect full roll yi with 6 items'
No way that's crazy.
We aren't talking about shit builds we are talking about fun new builds that people haven't found yet that make almost every champ viable.
It's too bad we can't have the super wacky build experience actually work, because half the people in each lobby are so sweaty that they're looking up tier lists and statistically optimized build guides for what's supposed to be a casual party gamemode. Joyless mofos.
Every game has the same bans already and if something gets through someone will pick it.
I have played against enough galio, trundle, brand, gragas and so on already.
They were the strongest in the previous rotation aswell so im wondering why they dont have nerfs in arena already.
I think gragas even has buffs on his W as it hits for more than his whole rotation
To be fair, Moonflair Spellblade is probably the most broadly applicable AP item. Certainly wouldn't want it on Darius, but a lot of AD champs have Spellblade as one of if not their best prismatic.
There’s an issue with taking away agency like this though. Yes 99% of the time stuff like that is useless until you have the one game with Tap Dancer abilities apply on hit Singed and become a jet engine.
Without the randomization you’d never get to experience something like that
I was going crazy trying to get a sorta-tanky one on Thresh the other day, to not pop while peeling.
Tankiest option I could get was the AP/Armor/MR one that summons a comet. =_=
Darius won't get offered AP items because he has no AP ratios, I don't know the trigger for healing/shield power items (if you need to be able to heal allies or self heals are enough), if you get offered AP items on Darius please let us know what item so we can look into it!
\[EDIT\] Spoke to designers and I was wrong! AP items *typically* are excluded from champs with no AP ratios but there are some exceptions, moonflair spellblade is shown to Darius for example because the other stats may be good enough that Darius would want them. Arena also has a lot of options for utilising AP/AD regardless of your champ actually wants that stat, it's for the experimenting crowd!
https://imgur.com/wClVTHG
He is definitely getting recommended AP items you can see for yourself in Lolalytics data. Empyrean Promise should never be given to him for sure.
Empyrean Promise is a heal/shield centric item, Darius has self-heal in his kit so it's added to his pool of items, no matter how technically ridicilous it is.
Same reason Jinx can get all kinds of items and augments that focus on CC'ing enemies, but those kinds of builds around her E traps have no sense of viability.
Moonflair is the actually interesting item here, but the question is if that items falls under "strictly AP champs get this" or some other category which just happens to allow for Darius. That could be a bug.
Spoke to designers and this is expected for the items he's currently being shown, so I was wrong! Generally speaking AP items are not given to champs with no AP ratios but there are some exceptions, Moonflair for e.g. could be an item that Darius wants for the other effects. Not that this has to stay this way if it's wrong, but that's intended currently!
How heavily are items weighted based on a champion's kit? I technically have CC on Diana, and an AP ratio on Jinx, but that doesn't mean Force of Entropy and Innervating Locket aren't insultingly bad on them, respectively. But they both seem to be offered on the champs as often as anything else.
Are items actually weighted by how much ratio a champ has, or does it just check if an item technically does *something* on the champ, and just give it as an option if so?
how big does a scaling need to be to have that item type appear in the choices? for example will i get ad items on malzahar when he only has a single 20% ad ratio
0.2% MAX HEALTH scaling, not a flat damage scaling which makes a world of difference, not saying AP trundle is meta breaking, but this is a bit of a strawman
What would an actual AP champ's scaling look like for max health? I'm not arguing I just can't think of an example off the top of my head rn and am curious
For the TOTAL damage of Malz ult (like if you stay in the zone even after the suppress) is 2.5% scaling on the max health, granted there is more damage past just that max health but for an ult scaling 0.2% max hp isn’t that bad, especially since trundle can just use it then leave with no need to stay in proximity to his opponent.
>I don't know the trigger for healing/shield power items (if you need to be able to heal allies or self heals are enough)
Self heals seem to apply since I am being offered heal/shield power items on Swain for example.
>I don't know the trigger for healing/shield power items
Fuck so that's why I never get shield+heal items on udyr even when I'm building blossoming dawn + moonstone
Why am I playing Hwei and getting offered a crit stat shard, an AS stat shard and an AD stat shard?
Surely you understand how unbelievably frustrating that is. This system is honestly way too skewed towards randomness, it's bordering on ridiculous.
I'd have to ask designers but at a guess because adaptive force doesn't come with any decision making and doesn't form the foundations of a build, which is what Prismatics are meant to do!
Fair enough I guess. Considering the variations and how prismatics were presented, I thought they were all meant to be giving adaptive force instead of straight AP or AD. Since the decision at least from my games comes out of the passive effect, not out of the offensive stat itself, yet getting 0 or close to 0 benefit because my champ cannot use either AP or AD cripples some choices
Can you look into champs with core items that they need asap (irelia botrk, ezreal sheen item, camile sheen) and scaling after 2 rounds items. Both of those things feel very bad becouse of forced prismatic first.
Can you remove Cruelty from Lillia's pool? Her only CC is her ult and the meteor would just wake them up immediately meaning the item basically just disables her ult.
Hi, thanks for making the effort to interact with the players!
I also had bad experiences with Pyke where even with a reroll, my best prismatic choice was a tank item that I had to sell immediately to get a regular assassin item I could better use.
Also I think one of the items offered was Sanguine Gift (AP and heal power prismatic item).
Are AP and AD items weighted based on ratios or anything like that? Every time I play Quinn I don't know if I am unlucky or what but I swear there's at least one AP item in most sets of prismatics I get. She has one 60% AP ratio I believe on her Q. It's frustrating to see multiple AP items and often be forced into a reroll because of it.
I'm getting AP items on sett cause of shield/heal power, since he has a shield on W.
Feels rly bad to get those since sett shield is already massive a disappears rly quickly.
Disagree with the main poster overall but sometimes the item selection does feel a little wacky- being offered force of entropy on Jhin because his W can root feels pretty bad when it’s that or two ap items just because his e has an ap ratio.
I literally keep getting recommended ap prismatics on Pyke every time I play him. This was just a couple days ago too. And today I got tons of ap prismatic recommendations for Sett, who also has no ap ratios.
Imho all AP prismatics shouldn't be offered to AD champs (and vise versa). But if you have some conversion augments that give ad based on ap then they should
Braum has only a 60% AP ratio on ult which is laughable and I got offered only AP items. Items like cruelty with synergy are ok but most of them are not good.
Can champions that just straight up don't have a viable ap build not get offered them either. AP items on trundle with a sole .02% on his ult is just not fun.
Can't even viably make an ap build because even 1K ap is just 10% more ult damage.
I have so far regretted **every single reroll** on prismatic items. It is honestly horrendous. Next time I'll settle for the first item that gives me at least two relevant stats. If even...
While I think Arena's baseline is always going to be "a good gamemode", I think this iteration is drastically worse than the previous iteration. Leaning into RNG feels like they tried to make a product for everyone, and it underdelivered in my opinion. Having an outdated reroll system (compared to how TFT does it, where you can individually reroll each augment) and having a shared pool of rerolls for your augments, prismatics and stat anvils makes it feel that much worse when you low roll.
Also the lilypad map sucks balls, it's also bugged beyond belief. I feel like cameos are too warping and frustrate me more than anything.
Also as a personal gripe, round 7 can piss off, just a random anvil round, really boring. I'd rather it's just another gold round.
Thresh cameo is, I guess adc and mages win for free and jhin is 50 50 what enemy is he gonna annoy beyond belief, singlehandly can decide early rounds.
Honestly they should lean more into just having way more augment pick rounds, making more items of every class, restricting items per class more and pretty much it. Making augments that tailor to specific champions could also not be bad, if there are some wacky off-meta builds some champions can go, aslong as it is balanced around 4.5 avg should be fine, the mode is to have fun anyway.
I like round 7 tbh of all the things you listed that's the only one I like because it allows me to grab some game-saving stats on champions who suck with random items.
Like I could be playing Irelia who needs certain items and still get omnivamp or armour. As opposed to Azir who can just grab random items and take attack speed anvils every time.
Their reasoning for the older reroll type system was that TfT has many more augments than they do. So with their style of rerolls you could always hit augments you wanted more much consistently than you would in TfT. I'm guessing they would use the TfT system if they felt like they had a decent number of augments for you to not always hit.
I love when Prismatic Items, Augments, and a fucking stat shard all share the same reroll pool. It completely incentivizes you to never fucking use it because what if you get offered a prismatic augment? So it feels like shit to reroll anything.
I think 8 teams was a mistake. There’ve always been games where one player/team can highroll their augments, causing you to lose on the spot. With 8 teams, the chances of that happening are exponentially higher, without increasing the chances of you getting exodia augments.
Arena gave me a reason to play league again but I can't stand the new version. Too much RNG.
I know she was a monster who deserved to get gutted in the arena but fiora used to have like a 10 second cool down on her parry and now it's like 26 seconds. Jesus.
Meanwhile we still have a swain, illaoi, and trundle every single game.
Please riot, take out all the mega healers and not just fiora and ww. I can't play different champs/builds when every game gets dominated by the same combos.
Briar can be a massive issue if she gets any of the power omnivamp items. You really can't afford to put antiheal into your item pool because you need the early item buy phase for a powerspike item
Briar can go permastun, that said I have seen briar permastun lose, cause if their teammate does nothing, and you have 2 champs with cc, you can cc chain briar before she perma stuns, perma omnisteals.
Am I the only one feeling like Arena games have way too much diversity in player ranks this time? I am gold, but I consistently have gone against diamond and platinum players...
I have the same feeling. I am diamond and keep getting matched with gold and below players on my team that almost always require me to play a champ who can 2 v 1 the fights or its a fast 8th.
Although, as I play more and more, I *think* I'm getting more higher ranked players as teammates, so it might be an arena-specific mmr thing that has to get sorted out over lots of games. (which also feels bad.)
Just to clarify, i agree that darius shouldnt be getting ap items and stuff like that. I think its a bug atm so i guess riot is on it thanks to OPs post
However, the people that complain about the randomization and not being able to buy prismatics are the same people that will just spam play Taric+Kayn like last arena every game to win in a clearly for fun game mode.
Riot hasnt balanced arena around champs and items. Theyve tried to balance it around making sure players that want to win and players that want to have fun can exist in the same environment. Which is exactly what they should have done. Its like riot cant do anything right for reddit lol
Noone is going to enjoy a game mode where everyone is running porofessor min/max builds on the statistically most broken champions for 4 months.
The game mode is fun, its here for only 4 months. Just enjoy it
same, more variety...
I think it rewards adaptability more than previous arenas...
You need to make what you are given work, and sometimes someone will get the best augments, other times you will.
I personally don't think anyone should be able to go top 1 every game, but if you are actually good at the game mode you should be able to top 4, which I think currently is the case.
One of my main champs is Vex and every single game I've attempted to play with her has ended 6th or lower. It's ridiculous how little damage some mages do even when they have good augments.
In saying that, I also play a lot of Swain and Hwei and they doing well - although they're perma banned so I can never play them
> The game mode is fun, its here for only 4 months. Just enjoy it
There's nothing fun about getting RNG locked into garbage items. That is the opposite of fun.
It feels awful to have to choose items that are just straight up awful for the character you're playing. Having some randomness is fine, but it's way too much right now
ap items on darius is a bug though no? You cant blame the random aspects of the game mode based on unintended events
Getting crit items on darius or attack speed or some other "wacky" items is part of the experience of arena. If you wanted to just play bruiser darius, why not play normals or ranked? Theres nothing wrong with a heartsteel akali/ap qiyana/bruiser ekko etc etc
thats a genuine question btw
There's a difference between not wanting genuinely useless items on a bruiser and wanting to play straight up bruiser.
It's not wacky to be fucked over by RNG.
but were you even fucked over by rng here? you have two fine options. if you had rerolls you could go for others... there aren't that many prismatics and they aren't letting you pick from all of them. sounds like this specific scenario is a bug, but i have literally never been bothered by my prismatic options. sometimes ive rerolled cuz i had 2 or 3 rerolls and was curious if i could do better, but it rarely feels like the determining factor in a win or loss for me.
The picture I posted was taken nine hours after the thread was made. Just because that one game had okay options doesn’t mean that you can’t low roll into unusable items The picture was literally just proof that Darius is being offered AP items, despite what the rioter was saying.
Neither Stoneplate nor Hemomancers is genuinely useless on darius though?
You werent fucked over by anything other than wanting a specific build in a game mode that doesnt offer that for blatant reasons.
This is like complaining about getting countered in aram
Let us just straight up buy our prismatic.
I'd be much more likely to take a wacky augment R1 if I knew for a fact that i'd get the prismatic needed to make it work.
There probably are some giga broken combo's but I'm never going to find them because I don't want to pick the augment required to make it work when I don't even know if i'm getting the prismatic I need.
Then all people are gonna pick the same champions with the same augments lmao. Arena is also about adaptation, sometimes you won’t have the perfect augment and it can be tilting but if they don’t add this RNG the mod wouldn’t be played tbh
RNG is necessary for sure. The "take a wacky thing and build around it to make it work" is a concept that works and people have fun with it, that's why the roguelike game genre is so consistent.
However, that recipe includes two key ingredients: RNG and giving the player the ability to adapt. Having BOTH of the most powerful options rely on RNG removes the second ingredient from the recipe, and causes player frustration and posts such as this one.
It's like if in Dead Cells all the scrolls gave you a random color stat instead of picking one of the 3. It's more random, but your inability to specialize causes you to be unable to properly craft a working build.
In Dead Cells if you get a certain weapon the chances are that you can use the mutations that work with it to take it far with you. You remove the ability to pick your stats and now you can't really use anything because it's all doing too little damage now.
Okay, then let's double down
The first 2 augments can't be rerolled. The first prismatic item can be bought without a pick one of three option
If only one of the options is RNG, it needs to be more RNG heavy than today
I mean, people are already picking the same champions and siding with the same augments as much as they can.
I keep seeing the same champs, I keep seeing the same bans, I keep seeing the same strats. Are you seriously not seeing the same champions over and over already?
enough people played arena last time where you got to buy your mythic and your own build, so much so that they decided to bring arena back a 3rd time for 4 months. what are you talking about the mode wouldnt be played.
It's crazy how powerful some of them are compared to the others too. At least the augments don't matter as much, and you can get some pretty funny combinations with those but if you get fucked over with a bad prismatic item you can't recover at all.
Yeah it can sometimes suck, but honestly i think its better for the longevity of the mode, if stuff is randomised you get to go different builds every time which makes the mode not go stale so fast
Sure randomness is good.
But when I only get AP items on pantheon, get good AP augments, build the correct items and still do zero damage and come nearly last that kinda thing is not healthy for the game mode.
> Sure randomness is good.
if I wanted to get my ass blasted by rng id be playing this set of TFT lmao not arenas (well atleast solo, with a friend you can do fun stuff)
Thing is, even TFT is not true RNG because you can pivot your comp around whatever you get early. If I roll fucking AP on Xayah there’s no way I can swap to Rakan or whatever
That's a terrible example since Xayah is one of 20 champions with absolutely zero AP ratios and thus will never be offered AP options by the game (assuming it works as it should).
Even still, it's not like all the choices will be completely unusable. You can still pivot your build, there's way more playable builds than you think. The problem is that everyone is ultra-tryhard sweating and immediately give up when they don't get the cookie-cutter build from their guide.
Also, remember that even 4th place counts as a win. Even if there's a team that high-rolls the dream build, you can still come 2nd/3rd/4th and win.
" if stuff is randomised you get to go different builds every time which makes the mode not go stale so fast "
Are you actually seeing variety though? I keep seeing the same champions building the same shit lol. The only time I see a champion do anything at all different, is if they have decent AD AND decent AP ratios.
For example, Smolder. Smolder can go AP or AD, based on what he's offered. Draven though? He's just always going AD. Briar is always going bruiser. Lissandra is always going AP. Heimer is always going AP, etc etc.
What is the variety that you're referring to, that this RNG supposedly allows?
Getting AP and support item on a AD bruiser isn’t “a different build”, it’s a straight up death sentence since a vast majority of champion are skewed towards a specific stats, especially when the stat in question is AD and AP. Darius cannot use AP items to “go for a different build”, fker has no AP scaling in his kit. A’Sol cannot use AD item to “go for a different build”, since that kills his entire kit. The only way this level of RNG prolong the life cycle of the game mode is if people rage queue more.
Comparing to ARAM doesn’t really work, since that mode the only thing random happens before the game actually start.
It would be more reasonable to compare it to TFT where a lot of Arena’s ideas seemingly originated from. The reason RNG is relatively fine there is your comp can be rapidly pivoted mid game so u adjust to items and champions that you receive, as a matter of fact that’s where a lot of “skill expression” came from. You cannot do this in Arena, your champion and their specialized stat are locked in from get go. They either need to change the prismatic to a pool loot system similar to the 2000 normal item pool, or make more stats into adaptive so at least it won’t be something like “pick a support item, ad item or tank item” when you r playing a mage.
Yep.
Players will loudly bitch that that can't get exactly what they want every game. It will start with pris items, then it will be a demand about traits. It won't stop until the loud less skillful/flexible players ruin the game mode.
locking people out of playing what they want is the best way to speedrun arena playerbase plummeting to the ground. I am as tired of Trundle Illaoi Mundo Brand every game as everyone else, but that's probably still better than ending up with some non-functional duo like Renata - Yuumi because RNG just felt like punching you in the balls
I mean they should just make them anvils for classes like the other anvils if you wanna be whacky you can do that still by buying the corresponding anvil.
Yeah, it should also take into account the first augment you get each game. I got the attack speed = bonus AD augment on teemo, I was clearly building AD. But the game just said that I HAVE to go AP.
Teemo is one of the few champions that can go AD or AP.
Pantheon on the otherhand, is locked to AD. Despite this though, since he has an AP ratio in his kit, he'll be offered AP Prismatics. Even though AP Pantheon will just never truly work.
As much as I love RNG mechanics in games (this isn’t sarcastic I find it very enjoyable), I feel like they had a pretty good balance beforehand. Now it almost feels too extreme, like this is what an URFified version of arena would be if you just turned up the gold income
I think Riot want Arena to have the Fortnite effect, in Fortnite the randomness of the game is crazy, your shots goes all around the cross air, and every loot is random so Kevin 8 year old can tell his friends he won a game.
It's what I find frustrating about Aram too, I have friends who only play Aram (like 2000hours in) and they are awful at the game but sit at a 50% wr.
The gambling effect on Arena is huge, you consistently go top 1/2 with broken luck, so Kevin is happy, and if you low roll the games kicks you out in 3 losses, so you reiterate your luck trying to high roll, Riot wants engagement before fairness, making things frustrating is part of it.
The main issue I've run into is that you can get a tank prismatic item, but it's very difficult to counter tanks early on because you can't freely itemize against them yet. I'm not complaining about "hurr durr tanks op in arena" I'm not that bad, but for the most part they do get a free round win after Prismatic Item select.
I think the item pools are actually fine. What they really need to do is upgrade a few prismatic items, such as demon kings crown. Cruelty out here dealing 2k damage a round on tanks, while dkc will give you less stats than a normal item.
Always fun seeing people cry about arena, few days out, clearly still not having figured out the game mode. Reminds me like how everyone last arena cried about how only tanks are viable now because of the revive. And this was of course also wrong. And it isNot like this game gets patched regularly so if this turns out to be a big problem they can just patch it soon.. also you can always sell your prismatic for a normal item.
Except that you have to save up 500. Which in turn can also make you not afford your next Legendary after that. So there's much much more to it than "just selling your Prismatic"
If you get 0 kills or spam pots of course and, my entire point was that people act as if they figured out the game mode and optimized already everything despite it being out for only a few days. Like last 2 arena where people on reddit complained about plenty of stuff that later wasn't even meta in high ranks,but acted as if you can't beat. It
I don't act like I figured it out, I simply gave an alternative you can take if you don't find any usefully prismatic. You are clearly just trying to pic a fight for the fun of it.
Not trying to pick a fight. You were the one who said that people were crying, acting like they got it all figured out. Sounds more like you're the one trying to pick a fight. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. You are very much acting like you had it figured out with that statement. Only after I called it out did you backtrack.
In reality, there's no difference between you and the people you call out. That's literally what I was pointing out.
What hypocrisy ,I pointed out a fact. Reddit cried about arena balancing in all 3 expansion and all the stuff they cried about ussualy ended up not to reach high ELO causes it wasn't even brokeny or course some stuff they complained about also turns out strong . But my point stands and I never backtracked. Anyway I see discussion with you are pointless. So I ignore any further comments from you. Hope you move on as well instead of looking for a pointless fight on a old thread.
even the legendary by role rng can be bad on characters that need a core item. and part of the problem is that a lot of the champions just work on certain conditions, after many years of bad balance. even the game itself knows that some champions should ignore all the arena stuff, and keep tied to the core build, or you be useless, while other can pick anything and will still be broken...
in previous iterations of arena you could high roll fun augments or just not highroll them, but still be able to play your champion at a base level in the intended way by buying your mythic and the rest of you items. the problem here is with the new rng prismatic system, you can actively low roll which just doesnt ever feel good. you dont get to pick your funky prismatic in a vacuum. maybe it would be fun to think of playing on hit tank zed, but then you realize that there are 14 other players who are all aiming to get the item that works the best with their champions most viable build and you instantly see how useless your build is.
i was playing talon just last night and got gamba anvil and gamblers blade for my first 2 picks, decided to go for it to try and have a fun build. i had fun for about a single round before i got completely shitstomped by people playing real builds. what is the counterplay to this? i can sell my gamblers blade to get youmuus or something good for my champ, but this is the low roll, im now one of the few if not the only one who doesnt get to use a crazy super powerful build defining item in the new iteration of the mode where thats the main draw, and if people can and are just going to sell them anyway "for a real build", what was really accomplished by adding them
maybe its just me, but losing a bunch with troll builds doesnt make the times i actually win with a real build feel better, it just makes me wish i could play a real build all the time. im a zed main, hes op as fuck in arena and got boring last time so i would switch it up, but now i only play zed whenever hes not banned because while i dont mind not winning, i do mind getting completely shit on by things out of my control. i really enjoy the mode but i feel i dont have agency unless i pick one of the top champs who can work with most items and augments. before you could pick something shitty but highroll crazy augments and still win, now you cant pick something shitty unless you get the 1 in 10000 highroll build which is so unlikely that you wouldnt even bother with the chance and just default to picking the same 10 or 20 champs (which is all i see in these diamond+ lobbies)
Hi I’d like to be the dissenting opinion and say that I get pretty frustrated when my preferred type of prismatic doesn’t appear, but being forced to pick something off “meta” has made some really fun builds that actually worked out. I learned to stop getting pissy and if the prismatic doesn’t result in anything, I can just sell it for a legendary. Heal power Darius sounds fun. Get some healing augments, but tanky heal items, never die
That's cool on paper until you don't get any of the augs to make these off meta builds work, which is also completely random. It takes too long to get whacky builds off the ground, so more often than not you just get clapped and lose to people with real items
Right but if you invest in an item that is dependent on specific augs to work, and you don't get those augs, then you're boned. If you pick a standard item and get lackluster augs, you're at least at base strength, not negative strength.
I think either they make all legendary and prismatic random or don't make them random at all. It's annoying to have 1 you can buy and 1 completely random.
If there was a Alternative *cough* battlerite *cough* then that would be an Option. But there isnt and except for RNG the Mode is great.
Just the Champ Pool is extremly limited, from what i am witnessing.
No no, you don't understand. You're supposed to just slam that Moonflair Spellblade on Darius and maker a sUper WhAcKy on-hit AP Darius build! Only to get absolutely shitstomped by people with real prismatics for their champ and go fast 8th.
There’s too many rounds between being able to buy items. Wacky builds can’t get off the ground because it takes too long to get them going. The stat shard round makes it even worse.
This is the real issue. Wacky builds CAN WORK but when you're sitting on that moonflair soellblade + 1 item for over half the game you're not wacky building shit
Imo they just need to hand out more gold and remove the stat round. Ppl who want stat shards will buy them and ppl who want to save for items or don't know about stat shards can buy items
Ive been wanting this from the start. When it takes 40 rounds to make that wacky build happen, you either gotta skill gap 7 other teams until that point or pray rng gives you *exactly* what you're looking for.
I definitely agree about the stat round. At the very least, it should be a stat stat and regular buy round
Add onto this that I know they are trying to keep Arena games short, but the fact that you can be full-outed before even doing a full round-robin REALLY means if you don't win early you just fast 8 and go next. It's very easy to just get kicked out of a game before you ever make it if you roll bad team draws one too many times.
IDK what people's obsession is with wacky builds. Like wacky builds has always been an URF thing since you can spam your abilities. In Arena you can make the most OP builds with these new items and prismatics. And if it's OP I wouldn't classify it as wacky.
>IDK what people's obsession is with wacky builds. Ask Riot, that's what they're building around
the unkillable on hit heal urgot from last season of arena is definitely one of the whacky builds and it actually worked kinda, those builds are the whacky funny builds, nobody wants to go against a sweating bel veth with 8.5 attack speed at the 6th round, and riot themselves said they wanna aim to be able to allow whacky builds
There is a mode balance "buff" icon on Champions. At the moment all of them just states, "perfectly balanced". I imagine we're going to see some changes to at least nerf the bunch their data indicates as OP
riot giving league players getting the tft experience
Heal azir is no joke. I think there are probably 100x more good picks than people think there are
Sry but no off-meta build can win against Yi/Jax/Darius/Swain/Trundle with proper items and augments.
"Someone with bad augments and bad items loses to someone with good augments and good items" Ground breaking observation you made.
As someone who has played literally every champion from a-z: Yes they can. I think trundle is the only one of those that is actually a hard matchup, but he can easily be kited by anyone with cc or range, or banned if you wish. The rest are not bad, especially Yi jax swain are quite easy for me now. (I say this to assist you having more fun in the mode)
i have met an yi with mystic punch, mirage blade and firebrand, after his first q you could no longer see him as he pretty much was permanently invulnerable and also applied 4-5 stacks of firebrand every q, point is, you're talking out of your ass, some combos are just unbeatable and prismatic items just make it worse compared to the old arenas where some augment combos were already unbeatable
Check my other reply. Yes that yi high rolled and got a 1/32 amazing augment. So what? No one else in the lobby has it. Either cc him after first q or play for 2nd place. Winning isn't the only goal here, top 4 is a win. You don't have to beat yi to have a victory. Yes I have played 200+ games now and I am happy to share my thoughts to help you have more fun. The only one stopping you finding a way to enjoy it is yourself.
I think you played a different gamemode. If you dont hit augment jackpot with 60-70% of the roster, you're useless garbage. Kiting is impossible when everything has tons of ms and dishes out cc like hot bread.
There are many reasons why I disagree but I will just give you one to prove that it doesnt matter. There are 16 players per game, and maybe 1-2 of them will hit this 'jackpot' you are referring to. Everyone else will have a mix of good, ok or bad selections. Even the best champs suck with bad augments, e.g Trundle without attack speed/damage/range etc. So all you have to do to get a good placement is get an average role - which will happen every game. Skill + smart play and adapting to the matchup is the rest of it. For example earlier I got a terible zeri roll so I decided to take sunderer and go health stacking tank. It was amazing and I never got killed by any of these bruisers as I was more bruiser than them. Even though the tank zeri build is 'dead' - it worked great. All I had to do was play to counter the enemies and what they got. Best of luck
We are not talking about stuff that is remotely viable. Almost every ad champ can build kinda offtank. Bruiser Zeri is not some terrible useless thing but go on and play AD or a heal build on 80% of the mage roster. There are champions that can build offmeta and there are champs that only have one viable build path. Yes you can play a whacky on hit Elise build or bruiser Elise. You can't play Ad/onhit/tank Syndra and no you can't build AP Darius. So no. Going Bruiser Zeri doesn't at all proof your point because it is a remotely viable build and taking that for your definition of "terrible Zeri roll" is questionable. Edit.: I have literally no problem with whacky offmeta builds as long as they are atleast a bit functional. No I don't want ap on my Garen, no matter what. Im fine getting a crit Garen, Im fine getting an on hit Garen, I'm not fine playing ap Vayne.
Also 'we are not talking about...'??? You just joined the conversation😂😂😂 You haven't talked about anything. Leave us alone
It's not a very good point to say 'but my ad yuumi can't beat a perfect full roll yi with 6 items' No way that's crazy. We aren't talking about shit builds we are talking about fun new builds that people haven't found yet that make almost every champ viable.
No, we're talking about whatever the fuck the game gives you cuz you cant choose
Ok Reroll If you get 9 bad items with wrong damage type then I'll send you $1000. It just doesn't happen
Man tbh I think you just suck. Skill issue. Let's see that op.gg
You can. You just need skills
Enchanter katarina clears all of those except jax
It's too bad we can't have the super wacky build experience actually work, because half the people in each lobby are so sweaty that they're looking up tier lists and statistically optimized build guides for what's supposed to be a casual party gamemode. Joyless mofos.
I wish there was a "fun but not stupid op" build list tbh
Riot should disable their API for modes outside of SR tbh.
Players are not to blame. Designers are.
Every game has the same bans already and if something gets through someone will pick it. I have played against enough galio, trundle, brand, gragas and so on already. They were the strongest in the previous rotation aswell so im wondering why they dont have nerfs in arena already. I think gragas even has buffs on his W as it hits for more than his whole rotation
To be fair, Moonflair Spellblade is probably the most broadly applicable AP item. Certainly wouldn't want it on Darius, but a lot of AD champs have Spellblade as one of if not their best prismatic.
Run it on Nautilus and have a hell of a game (yeah I know he ain't ad)
skill issue
There’s an issue with taking away agency like this though. Yes 99% of the time stuff like that is useless until you have the one game with Tap Dancer abilities apply on hit Singed and become a jet engine. Without the randomization you’d never get to experience something like that
I was going crazy trying to get a sorta-tanky one on Thresh the other day, to not pop while peeling. Tankiest option I could get was the AP/Armor/MR one that summons a comet. =_=
The Dragonsoul item is actually troll unless your first augment was Omnisoul or you get a lucky bailout and get it 2nd
Darius won't get offered AP items because he has no AP ratios, I don't know the trigger for healing/shield power items (if you need to be able to heal allies or self heals are enough), if you get offered AP items on Darius please let us know what item so we can look into it! \[EDIT\] Spoke to designers and I was wrong! AP items *typically* are excluded from champs with no AP ratios but there are some exceptions, moonflair spellblade is shown to Darius for example because the other stats may be good enough that Darius would want them. Arena also has a lot of options for utilising AP/AD regardless of your champ actually wants that stat, it's for the experimenting crowd!
https://imgur.com/wClVTHG He is definitely getting recommended AP items you can see for yourself in Lolalytics data. Empyrean Promise should never be given to him for sure.
Empyrean Promise is a heal/shield centric item, Darius has self-heal in his kit so it's added to his pool of items, no matter how technically ridicilous it is. Same reason Jinx can get all kinds of items and augments that focus on CC'ing enemies, but those kinds of builds around her E traps have no sense of viability. Moonflair is the actually interesting item here, but the question is if that items falls under "strictly AP champs get this" or some other category which just happens to allow for Darius. That could be a bug.
Spoke to designers and this is expected for the items he's currently being shown, so I was wrong! Generally speaking AP items are not given to champs with no AP ratios but there are some exceptions, Moonflair for e.g. could be an item that Darius wants for the other effects. Not that this has to stay this way if it's wrong, but that's intended currently!
https://i.imgur.com/7htMHzl.png I was just now offered Moonflair Spellblade
Thanks! I'll bring it up with the team :)
Idk it would be cool if it were offered still when you get the ap -> ad augment or marksmage
Honestly all the prismatics should just offer adaptive force and the problem is mostly solved
im for this
I don't have a screenshot but I got offered 2 AP items, then a 3rd after a reroll on Zed last night
How heavily are items weighted based on a champion's kit? I technically have CC on Diana, and an AP ratio on Jinx, but that doesn't mean Force of Entropy and Innervating Locket aren't insultingly bad on them, respectively. But they both seem to be offered on the champs as often as anything else. Are items actually weighted by how much ratio a champ has, or does it just check if an item technically does *something* on the champ, and just give it as an option if so?
how big does a scaling need to be to have that item type appear in the choices? for example will i get ad items on malzahar when he only has a single 20% ad ratio
Trundle only has a .02% scaling on his ult and he gets offered AP items.
0.2% MAX HEALTH scaling, not a flat damage scaling which makes a world of difference, not saying AP trundle is meta breaking, but this is a bit of a strawman
What would an actual AP champ's scaling look like for max health? I'm not arguing I just can't think of an example off the top of my head rn and am curious
For the TOTAL damage of Malz ult (like if you stay in the zone even after the suppress) is 2.5% scaling on the max health, granted there is more damage past just that max health but for an ult scaling 0.2% max hp isn’t that bad, especially since trundle can just use it then leave with no need to stay in proximity to his opponent.
Vi's only ap ratio is her passive shield and she gets AP items lol
Yes, I’ve been very unlucky and only offered AD skewed items when playing Malz in arena. Was a very fast 8th lol.
>I don't know the trigger for healing/shield power items (if you need to be able to heal allies or self heals are enough) Self heals seem to apply since I am being offered heal/shield power items on Swain for example.
...but the heal/shield power items all have ap as well (or tank), and swain has ap ratios
I'm not being offered heal/shield power on say Veigar (only have 2 games so not a lot of say) whilst I am on Gragas.
i have absolutely been offered empyrean promise on veigar
But it has AP, which I guess qualifies it for Veigar
that would also qualify it for swain
>I don't know the trigger for healing/shield power items Fuck so that's why I never get shield+heal items on udyr even when I'm building blossoming dawn + moonstone
Why am I playing Hwei and getting offered a crit stat shard, an AS stat shard and an AD stat shard? Surely you understand how unbelievably frustrating that is. This system is honestly way too skewed towards randomness, it's bordering on ridiculous.
Is there any reason why not all prismatic items give adaptive force instead?
I'd have to ask designers but at a guess because adaptive force doesn't come with any decision making and doesn't form the foundations of a build, which is what Prismatics are meant to do!
Fair enough I guess. Considering the variations and how prismatics were presented, I thought they were all meant to be giving adaptive force instead of straight AP or AD. Since the decision at least from my games comes out of the passive effect, not out of the offensive stat itself, yet getting 0 or close to 0 benefit because my champ cannot use either AP or AD cripples some choices
Can you look into champs with core items that they need asap (irelia botrk, ezreal sheen item, camile sheen) and scaling after 2 rounds items. Both of those things feel very bad becouse of forced prismatic first.
Also champs that scale with everything like kalista or volibear feel disproportionatly advanteged by random stat shards and items
ap kalista op i guess
Well at least I get them offered on Pantheon, since his Ult has AP scaling!
lol so this is why I get offered heal/shield items when I play Liss. because my self-R heals me lmao
Respect+
Can you remove Cruelty from Lillia's pool? Her only CC is her ult and the meteor would just wake them up immediately meaning the item basically just disables her ult.
Nilah also has no AP ratios but is being offered AP items: [https://imgur.com/a/KRHIY0b](https://imgur.com/a/KRHIY0b)
Heal and shield power, that's the reasoning She does have healing in her kit
She also gets AP items without heal/shield power: [https://imgur.com/a/cZk8X68](https://imgur.com/a/cZk8X68)
Hi, thanks for making the effort to interact with the players! I also had bad experiences with Pyke where even with a reroll, my best prismatic choice was a tank item that I had to sell immediately to get a regular assassin item I could better use. Also I think one of the items offered was Sanguine Gift (AP and heal power prismatic item).
Ok but if I'm playing a tank, at least 1 of the items should be a tank item
Are AP and AD items weighted based on ratios or anything like that? Every time I play Quinn I don't know if I am unlucky or what but I swear there's at least one AP item in most sets of prismatics I get. She has one 60% AP ratio I believe on her Q. It's frustrating to see multiple AP items and often be forced into a reroll because of it.
I'm getting AP items on sett cause of shield/heal power, since he has a shield on W. Feels rly bad to get those since sett shield is already massive a disappears rly quickly.
Disagree with the main poster overall but sometimes the item selection does feel a little wacky- being offered force of entropy on Jhin because his W can root feels pretty bad when it’s that or two ap items just because his e has an ap ratio.
I literally keep getting recommended ap prismatics on Pyke every time I play him. This was just a couple days ago too. And today I got tons of ap prismatic recommendations for Sett, who also has no ap ratios.
Vlad doesn’t have crit or attack speed ratios yet he’s offered those items.. it’s clearly bugged.
Imho all AP prismatics shouldn't be offered to AD champs (and vise versa). But if you have some conversion augments that give ad based on ap then they should
Braum has only a 60% AP ratio on ult which is laughable and I got offered only AP items. Items like cruelty with synergy are ok but most of them are not good.
Can champions that just straight up don't have a viable ap build not get offered them either. AP items on trundle with a sole .02% on his ult is just not fun. Can't even viably make an ap build because even 1K ap is just 10% more ult damage.
1k ap makes his ult do 20% more max health damage or a 66% increase in damage. still not exactly powerful though
eventually people will get bored of the first prismatic round deciding where you gonna place and riot will surely fix it
Here you dropped this 🧢
By removing the mode?
Maybe prismatic items, instead of 3 choices, you have 4-5? would prob help
I have so far regretted **every single reroll** on prismatic items. It is honestly horrendous. Next time I'll settle for the first item that gives me at least two relevant stats. If even...
If I get offered terrible choices I pick any and sell it for a legendary, better than having 100 AP on Darius
Wait I never even considered that, that's genius. Thank you!
While I think Arena's baseline is always going to be "a good gamemode", I think this iteration is drastically worse than the previous iteration. Leaning into RNG feels like they tried to make a product for everyone, and it underdelivered in my opinion. Having an outdated reroll system (compared to how TFT does it, where you can individually reroll each augment) and having a shared pool of rerolls for your augments, prismatics and stat anvils makes it feel that much worse when you low roll. Also the lilypad map sucks balls, it's also bugged beyond belief. I feel like cameos are too warping and frustrate me more than anything. Also as a personal gripe, round 7 can piss off, just a random anvil round, really boring. I'd rather it's just another gold round.
Thresh cameo is, I guess adc and mages win for free and jhin is 50 50 what enemy is he gonna annoy beyond belief, singlehandly can decide early rounds. Honestly they should lean more into just having way more augment pick rounds, making more items of every class, restricting items per class more and pretty much it. Making augments that tailor to specific champions could also not be bad, if there are some wacky off-meta builds some champions can go, aslong as it is balanced around 4.5 avg should be fine, the mode is to have fun anyway.
I like round 7 tbh of all the things you listed that's the only one I like because it allows me to grab some game-saving stats on champions who suck with random items. Like I could be playing Irelia who needs certain items and still get omnivamp or armour. As opposed to Azir who can just grab random items and take attack speed anvils every time.
Their reasoning for the older reroll type system was that TfT has many more augments than they do. So with their style of rerolls you could always hit augments you wanted more much consistently than you would in TfT. I'm guessing they would use the TfT system if they felt like they had a decent number of augments for you to not always hit.
I love when Prismatic Items, Augments, and a fucking stat shard all share the same reroll pool. It completely incentivizes you to never fucking use it because what if you get offered a prismatic augment? So it feels like shit to reroll anything.
I think 8 teams was a mistake. There’ve always been games where one player/team can highroll their augments, causing you to lose on the spot. With 8 teams, the chances of that happening are exponentially higher, without increasing the chances of you getting exodia augments.
Arena gave me a reason to play league again but I can't stand the new version. Too much RNG. I know she was a monster who deserved to get gutted in the arena but fiora used to have like a 10 second cool down on her parry and now it's like 26 seconds. Jesus. Meanwhile we still have a swain, illaoi, and trundle every single game. Please riot, take out all the mega healers and not just fiora and ww. I can't play different champs/builds when every game gets dominated by the same combos.
Briar can be a massive issue if she gets any of the power omnivamp items. You really can't afford to put antiheal into your item pool because you need the early item buy phase for a powerspike item
Briar can go permastun, that said I have seen briar permastun lose, cause if their teammate does nothing, and you have 2 champs with cc, you can cc chain briar before she perma stuns, perma omnisteals.
Same with Alistair. Played a round of him and he has been completely gutted because of super high cooldowns. Used to be so fun when it first came out.
Am I the only one feeling like Arena games have way too much diversity in player ranks this time? I am gold, but I consistently have gone against diamond and platinum players...
I believe arena has its own rank system
I have the same feeling. I am diamond and keep getting matched with gold and below players on my team that almost always require me to play a champ who can 2 v 1 the fights or its a fast 8th. Although, as I play more and more, I *think* I'm getting more higher ranked players as teammates, so it might be an arena-specific mmr thing that has to get sorted out over lots of games. (which also feels bad.)
Just to clarify, i agree that darius shouldnt be getting ap items and stuff like that. I think its a bug atm so i guess riot is on it thanks to OPs post However, the people that complain about the randomization and not being able to buy prismatics are the same people that will just spam play Taric+Kayn like last arena every game to win in a clearly for fun game mode. Riot hasnt balanced arena around champs and items. Theyve tried to balance it around making sure players that want to win and players that want to have fun can exist in the same environment. Which is exactly what they should have done. Its like riot cant do anything right for reddit lol Noone is going to enjoy a game mode where everyone is running porofessor min/max builds on the statistically most broken champions for 4 months. The game mode is fun, its here for only 4 months. Just enjoy it
Anecdotally me and my partner have had more fun so far than previous arena iterations.
same, more variety... I think it rewards adaptability more than previous arenas... You need to make what you are given work, and sometimes someone will get the best augments, other times you will. I personally don't think anyone should be able to go top 1 every game, but if you are actually good at the game mode you should be able to top 4, which I think currently is the case.
> The game mode is fun Not as many marksmen or skillshot mages imo. I’m happy the mission was only 5 games.
One of my main champs is Vex and every single game I've attempted to play with her has ended 6th or lower. It's ridiculous how little damage some mages do even when they have good augments. In saying that, I also play a lot of Swain and Hwei and they doing well - although they're perma banned so I can never play them
ive been spamming hwei, lux and syndra. They seem pretty good i think, alot of fun in a tiny arena aswell
> The game mode is fun, its here for only 4 months. Just enjoy it There's nothing fun about getting RNG locked into garbage items. That is the opposite of fun. It feels awful to have to choose items that are just straight up awful for the character you're playing. Having some randomness is fine, but it's way too much right now
ap items on darius is a bug though no? You cant blame the random aspects of the game mode based on unintended events Getting crit items on darius or attack speed or some other "wacky" items is part of the experience of arena. If you wanted to just play bruiser darius, why not play normals or ranked? Theres nothing wrong with a heartsteel akali/ap qiyana/bruiser ekko etc etc thats a genuine question btw
There's a difference between not wanting genuinely useless items on a bruiser and wanting to play straight up bruiser. It's not wacky to be fucked over by RNG.
but were you even fucked over by rng here? you have two fine options. if you had rerolls you could go for others... there aren't that many prismatics and they aren't letting you pick from all of them. sounds like this specific scenario is a bug, but i have literally never been bothered by my prismatic options. sometimes ive rerolled cuz i had 2 or 3 rerolls and was curious if i could do better, but it rarely feels like the determining factor in a win or loss for me.
exactly this
The picture I posted was taken nine hours after the thread was made. Just because that one game had okay options doesn’t mean that you can’t low roll into unusable items The picture was literally just proof that Darius is being offered AP items, despite what the rioter was saying.
Neither Stoneplate nor Hemomancers is genuinely useless on darius though? You werent fucked over by anything other than wanting a specific build in a game mode that doesnt offer that for blatant reasons. This is like complaining about getting countered in aram
I didn’t say that Hemomancers or Stoneplate was useless on Darius. The screenshot I took was just proof that AP items were being offered.
do you have proof of being offered 3 genuinely useless items?
I won a reality fracture minionmancer Naafiri game, I valued having more summons rather than shit like boring item prowlers
Let us just straight up buy our prismatic. I'd be much more likely to take a wacky augment R1 if I knew for a fact that i'd get the prismatic needed to make it work. There probably are some giga broken combo's but I'm never going to find them because I don't want to pick the augment required to make it work when I don't even know if i'm getting the prismatic I need.
Then all people are gonna pick the same champions with the same augments lmao. Arena is also about adaptation, sometimes you won’t have the perfect augment and it can be tilting but if they don’t add this RNG the mod wouldn’t be played tbh
RNG is necessary for sure. The "take a wacky thing and build around it to make it work" is a concept that works and people have fun with it, that's why the roguelike game genre is so consistent. However, that recipe includes two key ingredients: RNG and giving the player the ability to adapt. Having BOTH of the most powerful options rely on RNG removes the second ingredient from the recipe, and causes player frustration and posts such as this one.
It's like if in Dead Cells all the scrolls gave you a random color stat instead of picking one of the 3. It's more random, but your inability to specialize causes you to be unable to properly craft a working build. In Dead Cells if you get a certain weapon the chances are that you can use the mutations that work with it to take it far with you. You remove the ability to pick your stats and now you can't really use anything because it's all doing too little damage now.
Okay, then let's double down The first 2 augments can't be rerolled. The first prismatic item can be bought without a pick one of three option If only one of the options is RNG, it needs to be more RNG heavy than today
I mean, people are already picking the same champions and siding with the same augments as much as they can. I keep seeing the same champs, I keep seeing the same bans, I keep seeing the same strats. Are you seriously not seeing the same champions over and over already?
I do but it would be way worse if it wasn’t rng tbf
What's worse than already happening every game?
enough people played arena last time where you got to buy your mythic and your own build, so much so that they decided to bring arena back a 3rd time for 4 months. what are you talking about the mode wouldnt be played.
It's crazy how powerful some of them are compared to the others too. At least the augments don't matter as much, and you can get some pretty funny combinations with those but if you get fucked over with a bad prismatic item you can't recover at all.
Yeah it can sometimes suck, but honestly i think its better for the longevity of the mode, if stuff is randomised you get to go different builds every time which makes the mode not go stale so fast
Sure randomness is good. But when I only get AP items on pantheon, get good AP augments, build the correct items and still do zero damage and come nearly last that kinda thing is not healthy for the game mode.
> Sure randomness is good. if I wanted to get my ass blasted by rng id be playing this set of TFT lmao not arenas (well atleast solo, with a friend you can do fun stuff)
Thing is, even TFT is not true RNG because you can pivot your comp around whatever you get early. If I roll fucking AP on Xayah there’s no way I can swap to Rakan or whatever
That's a terrible example since Xayah is one of 20 champions with absolutely zero AP ratios and thus will never be offered AP options by the game (assuming it works as it should). Even still, it's not like all the choices will be completely unusable. You can still pivot your build, there's way more playable builds than you think. The problem is that everyone is ultra-tryhard sweating and immediately give up when they don't get the cookie-cutter build from their guide. Also, remember that even 4th place counts as a win. Even if there's a team that high-rolls the dream build, you can still come 2nd/3rd/4th and win.
I got spell blade on Xayah literally two days ago. Unless they changed it in the last 2 days it is not working as intended.
Don't like randomness, go and play SR.
no it just means you get fucked over and stop playing arena
The number of times I actually get a prismatic I can't use at all is like 1 out of the 20 or so games I've played. This just seems overblown.
this is the league community ur talking about, they overblow everything as soon as they can.
It feels horrible every time it does happen and it affects the game and being able to reroll pre-prismatic item round in a very negative way.
ive had to pick horrible ones so much when im playing elise thats reliant on an early spike, pretty much ruins the rest of the game
Stop wasting your rerolls before the first prismatic lol.
Perhaps there is an issue with a guaranteed third round prismatic if it is making it so you can't use rerolls for agency before then.
You could say the same about aram making you play random champs, people still love the mode
On aram u still have full control over your build and u know what u will be playing from the start, in arena there's like 4 layers of RNG.
b-but you dont get it. You can just sell the item and get a legendary item of your choice like another guy said in yesterday's thread! no biggie !
Actual smart idea to save a terrible situation. Certainly better than ad yuumi
> legendary item of your choice Or an RNG legendary item!!!!! WOOOOO I'M EVEN MORE BEHIND AND NOT GUARANTEED ANYTHING GOOD!!!!
More people should realise this, teo legendarys can beat prismatic and legendary if the stats are good for the champ and the prismatic was ass
" if stuff is randomised you get to go different builds every time which makes the mode not go stale so fast " Are you actually seeing variety though? I keep seeing the same champions building the same shit lol. The only time I see a champion do anything at all different, is if they have decent AD AND decent AP ratios. For example, Smolder. Smolder can go AP or AD, based on what he's offered. Draven though? He's just always going AD. Briar is always going bruiser. Lissandra is always going AP. Heimer is always going AP, etc etc. What is the variety that you're referring to, that this RNG supposedly allows?
It allows you to play on-hit Zed because that's the best prismatic you got and now you're guaranteed to end up 7th place at best
anvils fucking over players stops the game from being the same champs with cookie cutter builds every game atleast
Getting AP and support item on a AD bruiser isn’t “a different build”, it’s a straight up death sentence since a vast majority of champion are skewed towards a specific stats, especially when the stat in question is AD and AP. Darius cannot use AP items to “go for a different build”, fker has no AP scaling in his kit. A’Sol cannot use AD item to “go for a different build”, since that kills his entire kit. The only way this level of RNG prolong the life cycle of the game mode is if people rage queue more. Comparing to ARAM doesn’t really work, since that mode the only thing random happens before the game actually start. It would be more reasonable to compare it to TFT where a lot of Arena’s ideas seemingly originated from. The reason RNG is relatively fine there is your comp can be rapidly pivoted mid game so u adjust to items and champions that you receive, as a matter of fact that’s where a lot of “skill expression” came from. You cannot do this in Arena, your champion and their specialized stat are locked in from get go. They either need to change the prismatic to a pool loot system similar to the 2000 normal item pool, or make more stats into adaptive so at least it won’t be something like “pick a support item, ad item or tank item” when you r playing a mage.
Yep. Players will loudly bitch that that can't get exactly what they want every game. It will start with pris items, then it will be a demand about traits. It won't stop until the loud less skillful/flexible players ruin the game mode.
This mode would be more fun if it was all random champs.
locking people out of playing what they want is the best way to speedrun arena playerbase plummeting to the ground. I am as tired of Trundle Illaoi Mundo Brand every game as everyone else, but that's probably still better than ending up with some non-functional duo like Renata - Yuumi because RNG just felt like punching you in the balls
I mean they should just make them anvils for classes like the other anvils if you wanna be whacky you can do that still by buying the corresponding anvil.
Yeah, it should also take into account the first augment you get each game. I got the attack speed = bonus AD augment on teemo, I was clearly building AD. But the game just said that I HAVE to go AP.
Teemo is one of the few champions that can go AD or AP. Pantheon on the otherhand, is locked to AD. Despite this though, since he has an AP ratio in his kit, he'll be offered AP Prismatics. Even though AP Pantheon will just never truly work.
i mean they have rerolls for a reason just save ur rerolls for the important stuff, don’t waste it on stuff like stats
As much as I love RNG mechanics in games (this isn’t sarcastic I find it very enjoyable), I feel like they had a pretty good balance beforehand. Now it almost feels too extreme, like this is what an URFified version of arena would be if you just turned up the gold income
I think Riot want Arena to have the Fortnite effect, in Fortnite the randomness of the game is crazy, your shots goes all around the cross air, and every loot is random so Kevin 8 year old can tell his friends he won a game. It's what I find frustrating about Aram too, I have friends who only play Aram (like 2000hours in) and they are awful at the game but sit at a 50% wr. The gambling effect on Arena is huge, you consistently go top 1/2 with broken luck, so Kevin is happy, and if you low roll the games kicks you out in 3 losses, so you reiterate your luck trying to high roll, Riot wants engagement before fairness, making things frustrating is part of it.
Most of the time I just sell it and get 2 normal items instead
The main issue I've run into is that you can get a tank prismatic item, but it's very difficult to counter tanks early on because you can't freely itemize against them yet. I'm not complaining about "hurr durr tanks op in arena" I'm not that bad, but for the most part they do get a free round win after Prismatic Item select.
I think the item pools are actually fine. What they really need to do is upgrade a few prismatic items, such as demon kings crown. Cruelty out here dealing 2k damage a round on tanks, while dkc will give you less stats than a normal item.
Always fun seeing people cry about arena, few days out, clearly still not having figured out the game mode. Reminds me like how everyone last arena cried about how only tanks are viable now because of the revive. And this was of course also wrong. And it isNot like this game gets patched regularly so if this turns out to be a big problem they can just patch it soon.. also you can always sell your prismatic for a normal item.
Prismatic items sell for 2000. Legendary costs 2500. Are you sure you've figured Arena out lol?
I haven't figured out all of it, but yes you can usually afford an legendary item by selling your poor prismatic.
Except that you have to save up 500. Which in turn can also make you not afford your next Legendary after that. So there's much much more to it than "just selling your Prismatic"
If you get 0 kills or spam pots of course and, my entire point was that people act as if they figured out the game mode and optimized already everything despite it being out for only a few days. Like last 2 arena where people on reddit complained about plenty of stuff that later wasn't even meta in high ranks,but acted as if you can't beat. It
I mean you did the same, don't you see that? You acted like you had it figured out. "Bro just sell prismatic and buy a normal item".
I don't act like I figured it out, I simply gave an alternative you can take if you don't find any usefully prismatic. You are clearly just trying to pic a fight for the fun of it.
Not trying to pick a fight. You were the one who said that people were crying, acting like they got it all figured out. Sounds more like you're the one trying to pick a fight. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. You are very much acting like you had it figured out with that statement. Only after I called it out did you backtrack. In reality, there's no difference between you and the people you call out. That's literally what I was pointing out.
What hypocrisy ,I pointed out a fact. Reddit cried about arena balancing in all 3 expansion and all the stuff they cried about ussualy ended up not to reach high ELO causes it wasn't even brokeny or course some stuff they complained about also turns out strong . But my point stands and I never backtracked. Anyway I see discussion with you are pointless. So I ignore any further comments from you. Hope you move on as well instead of looking for a pointless fight on a old thread.
even the legendary by role rng can be bad on characters that need a core item. and part of the problem is that a lot of the champions just work on certain conditions, after many years of bad balance. even the game itself knows that some champions should ignore all the arena stuff, and keep tied to the core build, or you be useless, while other can pick anything and will still be broken...
I’ll slap any item on Garen if I get the Spin to Win buff, idgaFUCK
same with zyra getting heal/shield augements becouse shes a support
in previous iterations of arena you could high roll fun augments or just not highroll them, but still be able to play your champion at a base level in the intended way by buying your mythic and the rest of you items. the problem here is with the new rng prismatic system, you can actively low roll which just doesnt ever feel good. you dont get to pick your funky prismatic in a vacuum. maybe it would be fun to think of playing on hit tank zed, but then you realize that there are 14 other players who are all aiming to get the item that works the best with their champions most viable build and you instantly see how useless your build is. i was playing talon just last night and got gamba anvil and gamblers blade for my first 2 picks, decided to go for it to try and have a fun build. i had fun for about a single round before i got completely shitstomped by people playing real builds. what is the counterplay to this? i can sell my gamblers blade to get youmuus or something good for my champ, but this is the low roll, im now one of the few if not the only one who doesnt get to use a crazy super powerful build defining item in the new iteration of the mode where thats the main draw, and if people can and are just going to sell them anyway "for a real build", what was really accomplished by adding them maybe its just me, but losing a bunch with troll builds doesnt make the times i actually win with a real build feel better, it just makes me wish i could play a real build all the time. im a zed main, hes op as fuck in arena and got boring last time so i would switch it up, but now i only play zed whenever hes not banned because while i dont mind not winning, i do mind getting completely shit on by things out of my control. i really enjoy the mode but i feel i dont have agency unless i pick one of the top champs who can work with most items and augments. before you could pick something shitty but highroll crazy augments and still win, now you cant pick something shitty unless you get the 1 in 10000 highroll build which is so unlikely that you wouldnt even bother with the chance and just default to picking the same 10 or 20 champs (which is all i see in these diamond+ lobbies)
Hi I’d like to be the dissenting opinion and say that I get pretty frustrated when my preferred type of prismatic doesn’t appear, but being forced to pick something off “meta” has made some really fun builds that actually worked out. I learned to stop getting pissy and if the prismatic doesn’t result in anything, I can just sell it for a legendary. Heal power Darius sounds fun. Get some healing augments, but tanky heal items, never die
That's cool on paper until you don't get any of the augs to make these off meta builds work, which is also completely random. It takes too long to get whacky builds off the ground, so more often than not you just get clapped and lose to people with real items
It’s just as random as not getting augs that work with a standard build
Right but if you invest in an item that is dependent on specific augs to work, and you don't get those augs, then you're boned. If you pick a standard item and get lackluster augs, you're at least at base strength, not negative strength.
I try to get the reality fracture but it never shows up on any of my ap champs, wth?!
i hate it. champs that absolutely need 2-3 items get shitstomped by the no items needed gang
Prismatics feel bad for the same reason mythics did. Not all champs want a mythic/prismatic. When I'm mundo I want to rush heart steel.
only way they know how to counter the tryharding in the game mode is to add more rng so the tryhards maybe roll a bad item and you get a chance
I think either they make all legendary and prismatic random or don't make them random at all. It's annoying to have 1 you can buy and 1 completely random.
When I'm playing Alistar and I get Cruelty, then late game get CoC. NNNNNNNNFFFFFFF
then dont play arena
If there was a Alternative *cough* battlerite *cough* then that would be an Option. But there isnt and except for RNG the Mode is great. Just the Champ Pool is extremly limited, from what i am witnessing.
You fully have the option to play a gamemode you don't like