>**- Arena God games from 168 >>> 60**
I can't believe they genuinely thought anybody would be able to feasibly score 1st place in an 8-team gamemode with RNG cranked up to 11...With 90% of League's Champion roster.
Thank you u/Phroxz0n for this one! Been playing ~10 games a day since patch went to main servers and only at 11 wins so far. I was confident I could finish 'Champ Ocean', but even with a first place rate of 20% I was really struggling to see how I would hit the God title.
Good change while still being ~300-500 games.
I'm currently at 20 wins and needless to say getting 168 wins with different champions in the span of 4 months is something that only deranged players like me would attempt to do. Fair enough.
However, I hope they bump it back up to 168 when Arena becomes a permanent mode, otherwise It takes away from the accomplishment IMO. How am I an Arena God if I haven't won with every champion? In my opinion It's a way better goal to chase than Arena ELO.
What will happen to the challenge If Arena were to become permanent? u/phroxz0n
Just doing some math for if the challenge was getting a 1st instead of winning. Based on my personal math as someone who has gotten 1st on 110 different champions in arena 1-2 solo. Assuming you aren't perma sitting in low elo(I hovered gladiator for basically all of that except maybe 10 when I was climbing). It took me around 411 games which is about 137 hours if you estimate 20 minutes per arena game, I stopped on senna cause I was tired of arena at that point, but the end half of the list looks significantly less hard than the initial half (Fuck bard, it took me 34 games). So I'd assume it would've only taken me another 200 games to get the 60 ish 1st place wins. Which means during arena 1-2 it would've taken about 200 hours to get a first with every champ assuming 20 minutes per game (I'm trying to take into account queues).
200 hours for an achievement sounds pretty rough but now that were in arena 3 and player count has doubled per game. So your looking at 400 hours if you want to do it legit. The problem with the 400 hour estimate, is that getting a 1st in high elo with certain champs is impossible when you have certain teamates and your opponents have a certain comp. You can just lack damage or lack tankiness, no matter how high you highroll. This leads to shit champs being even harder to get a first on then before, I'd estimate 3-4 times harder instead of 2 times, this means that the majority of your time which is taken up usually by those shit champs, is now 3-4 times longer. I would estimate this brings up the challenge time to get a 1st on every arena champ to somewhere between 450-550 hours, assuming your hovering a decent elo.
To be fair I'm also assuming that my 411 games for 110 champs is about the statistical average and top 4'ing has an entirely different strategically approach so I won't state with confidence the hour requirement to get all champs a top 4.
For reference, I duo like half my games, with my current pace It’ll take about 650 games (obviously the weaker champs will probably increase it to like 800ish)
If we look at EUW vs TR summoners rift soloq, my server’s high ELO is definitely a bit easier so doing the challenge in major servers will take longer. My estimation is around 1000 games without abusing premade ELO.
https://challenges.darkintaqt.com/tr/Fanna-F2nna
I mean if you farm low elo games to win with every champ, are you really a god? Definitely not, but it would definitely be the best strategy to make it achievable if it were 168.
You'd definitely need 7 other people constantly switching in&out of low elo accounts for that to happen, but yeah you could game the system.
When I'm playing solo I keep seeing the same players most of the time, so It's not that easy for me to farm first place. Even when I queue with low elo friends it puts us into higher elos really quickly. I could be wrong but the matchmaking is very trigger happy in terms of putting you in higher elos when you get a win
Insane amount of small stuff like this, does not seem they take rare bugs like this seriously or maybe they can't with all the tech-debt in the engine. I had a game where Mystic punch didn't work on my Yorick Q, Plants won't reduce cd of Rakan's Q and E ect...
yeah, it begins with serpents fang saying it reduces shields by 0,5% and ends with zyra killing 500mr 9k health starry night cloak zac within 3 seconds without any discernible reason
the obv balancing issues aside, some prismatics like the orb deal like 500 dmg per rounds while cruelty easily does 4 times that
Personally agree, but I did have a post where [Phroxz0n explained thoughts against in some context before:](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1c68w92/arena_030_initial_thoughts/)
>The client could handle 16 bans, but it took up too much space, extended time in champ select and played against breadth motivations of the mode.
>If we're trying to encourage people to play more stuff, more bans works against that. Having said that, too few bans, means a few meta dominant picks.
>If we allowed everyone to ban at once, there were too many duplicates selected. Best threading of design intent and all of the above was 8 bans.
I do still believe 16 bans would feel better from a player agency perspective even if time to game jumped from dodgers.
"Encourage players to play more stuff". More bans would work directly towards that, because with current bans 95% of the games have the same broken ass champions. As the game mode is now, its extremely stale and boring after a short while because there aren't enough bans to remove the problem champions so variety could be had.
I think I only see 3 champs get banned in more than 70% of my games (Trundle, Yi, Brand) and even then I am always banning trundle so that one just makes sense to regularly see.
>because with current bans 95% of the games have the same broken ass champions.
I don't see the same champs 95% of the time personally, but I don't get why people think more bans fixes this anyway. People will still pick the same champs, it'll just be a few more in that pool.
More bans means that more of the super high outliers will be banned in general which leads to more picks being viable. Something with a ~50% win rate can probably be competitive with something at ~55%, but will generally be ass blasted by some of those champs that are ~58%+
Would absolutely love that. They are already playing way too safe with the arena RNG, which is also its biggest problem. The problem champs become more problematic, because the RNG is limited. You can only get certain augments with certain classes, so its way too easy to get said broken augments on the problem champions. More RNG is the solution to make it more fun.
Because hes not thinking about the optimal way to do it. Hes thinking about "rito way of doing it". They don't aim for all champions to be played. Rito has always been balancing the game with the "who holds the stick" mentality. Something is always broken, then they balance it so something else is broken, not aiming to actually balance the game. Same applies to his mentality here. "Encouraging to play more champions" applies just to the next most broken champs that don't get in the very limited ban window.
We're on the same page, just playing messenger.
I think the most reasonable bottleneck that some Rioter undoubtedly has as a KPI is "Time to Game" and satisfaction around that particular metric as it is low hanging fruit from an objective data perspective.
One of the main points of this most is that the popular champs you are seeing all the time aren't even necessarily the strongest, so not even deserving of bans
Yea, except everytime one of the usual suspects is left unbanned, there will be 2-3 of them in each lobby.
And there are more than 8 horribly unbalanced champs for this mode. So you will just deal with the next worst thing instead, which wont make it any better considering there are what? 140+ champs now or more, can't even keep up at this point. Out of 140+ champs, roughly 30 see play. Thats just dogshit design all around, no matter what side you look at it from.
>If everyone banned at once there were too many duplicates
>only give players 8 bans
More than half the fucking lobby would need to duplicate bans. On average there is no way there would be less than 8 bans AND it'd be faster than current pick ban.
Riot smoking crack like normal, gotta love their 500 years :V
If they want people to build around prismatic items they should:
1) make prismatics worth building around (right now most of them are just old mythics that don’t require you to build around them)
2) make you choose prismatic at the start because right now you’ve already invested 1 augment, starting item, boots and 5 skill points so it’s very hard to change build that that point. (I’m not saying you should have a prismatic item on round 1 but they should make some kind of system where you know on round 1 which prismatic or which category of prismatic you’re going to end up getting eventually)
Also make the hit box detection for clicking blast cones and the portals smaller but also have priority. So often I click them on accident but the second someone stands on them I cannot click them anymore. Maybe a skill issue but the detection radius for the portals in particular is crazy big and makes it too easy to send yourself to doom
Zilean passive is currently useless. He can't earn enough xp to give to give to an ally to level them up, because the XP in the mode doesn't send you partway through a level. Only rarely can he lvl 17-18 and by that point in the game its basically useless
from the wiki:
>- Bonus health and resistances changed to 15%.
>- New Effect: Instead of upgrading items, now grants a permanent discount on Anvils for the team: - 100 Gold 100 for Stat Bonus Anvil, - 200 Gold 200 for Legendary Class-specific Item Anvil, - 250 Gold 250 for Prismatic Item Anvil.
All Zilean passive needs to be good in arena is allow him to use it round 2
Round 1: Level 3
Round 2: Level 5
So Zilean turns your teammate from 5 -> 6.
Could work very well with some combos to power spike on round 2 to get a much easier round and win a round you werent supposed to.
Wisdom of the ages gives you early level 6 now and it's so huge if your champ has a good ult. This might be the push Zilean needs without making him annoying to face by just pumping numbers. Nobody likes playing against Zilean as it is already lol.
>Having said that, we agree that some of the elements are not tuned correctly and being exacerbated by Jhin's tuning
Genuinely, koi pond + getting shot by Jhin who spawned behind us makes me not want to queue up for arena.
The lows in this game mode are so low and so miserable.
Their problem right now is too few prismatics, too many classes would basically get to cherrypick their best prismatic every round. Once they add a bunch more prismatics then something like that would make sense.
Make Prismatic item and Augments reroll different pool, so you don't have to choose between rolling first Augments and hoping for good Prismatic item RNG and vice versa.
Remove the Stats Anvil rounds, and just give gold instead, like 2750 so you can get the stats anyways every few rounds, or RNG with Legendary Anvil + Stats Anvil - can't make wacky off meta builds get online if I need one more item to contest some metaslaving Andy who instalocks Brand every game he's open and rolls magic missle, and I get to choose between 10% tenacity or 11 armor penetration as AP Rengar for whooping 6th place.
I swear every time I've seen a brand they get either magic missile or phenomenal evil first augment. Meanwhile I've just played 4 games of jhin and wasn't offered an AD prismatic at all.
Everyone wants gold instead of stat anvils.
This is by far the most common complaint and Riot just ignores it because some stupid project manager probably invented stat anvil rounds and doenst want to see their baby axed.
Stat anvils? Great. Star anvil rounds? Bullshit.
its even more insane it also applies onspell effects, got it on Zyra as well as minion mancer and it was basically a free 1st, for once a mage felt like it was on the same level as the team of 2 bruisers.
Yep. The item is beyond broken in every single way.
It by itself deals a ton of damage, it creates minions that block enemy projectiles, it procs item effects, it synergizes with various other augments such as the one that makes your minions 50% stronger, and so on.
After Jhin that one has been my greatest frustration in arena by miles.
Not to mention the mental damage it does to the opponent when they get creep blocked by the little shits (it’s me, the opponent fighting the urge to punch a hole in my monitor when I lose a round off of it)
Healing is this mode is the only way you can be tank at all, stacking resistances and health is useless you need healing and or shielding to actually be able to tank
Healing is bonkers on edge cases though. It's not tanking it's just an unkillable bruiser when you constantly see Aatrox and Red Kayn every game. Both do shit tons of damage and you can't even push them below 50% hp.
Aatrox cannot drain tank unless he's against a comp with zero damage because he doesn't do meaningful damage without building full lethality. This obviously leaves him at risk of being one shot.
Grievous Wounds is extremely OP in Arena, and there are many augments that allow you to stack infinitely to counter healing.
Aatrox's healing gets to be so much that he can blow through GW and still outsustain because of how easy it is to stack healing in Arena and 60% takes time to go off.
Why do you think him and Red Kayn are so popular? Tanky, crazy sustain, great damage and inescapable.
Healing is really only a problem for champions that have insane heal scaling like Mundo, Zac, and Vladimir. Nerfing heals across the board is a lazy solution.
Looks good to me, I'm just happy it's not another hands-off approach.
But please change the Spatula to not count takedowns retroactively. I prefer my highrolls to have some flair to them, not just "gold tier on second augment? Time to roll which teams are locked top 3"
In my opinion spatula should be removed. If a champ who can use all the stats gets it, especially early, that team becomes astronomically tough to beat
I'm okay with it if it's the high-risk high-reward choice it was designed to be. If you take it and have to get 10 takedowns while being an augment down, you kind of deserve a big reward. Taking it while having 9 takedowns already and getting the payout from a stray assist defeats the purpose.
Yup, I got it on Vlad alongside 200 AH on W.
My pool had a 1.7s cooldown. It lasts 2 seconds so I was permanent in pool. If you mash Q + W you will actually be able to cast Q when re-entering pool. Shit was even more disgusting then Brand + Runecarver.
They could do a lot of augment balance by disabling many on certain rounds (like TFT has done a lot of). Like picking the item haste one as first augment is horrible.
The Lux Yasuo comparison is terrible, if you play that matchup then yeah it sucks in lane but you can still *do* something through roams and later on with picks and teamfights. If you low roll in Arena on a champion that isn't one of the top 20 ish meta staples, then you just suffer for the entire game.
as many others have said i will repeat: i agree big time that they basically "nerfed" skill expression and upped the roulette shit. this update is a big step back to what prior arena was.
Yep. Why try a weaker champion if it has to high roll to be viable at all? The only weaker champions that don’t feel awful are ones that are very flexible with items, like Teemo.
Riot is trying way too hard to appeal to the broader casual playerbase. That's why the difference between the 1st and 2d iteration vs the 3rd iteration of Arena was radical as hell.
Sacrificing health would affect everyone else harder than tanks. An Alistar won't care that he goes from 8k hp to 7k, a Jinx going from 3k to 2.5k would be much worse off.
I dont understand the purpose of nerfing skill expression whilst introducing ranks. If you're casual and not as good cause you don't play as much, you'll match up against people of a similar skill anyway. Why does Riot assume that having no agency due to RNG dominance is entertaining?
Less RNG please. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Arena being a legitimate mode that rewards deliberate practice.
With the addition of 4 teams up to 8 you have to use TFT aproach. Top 4 is a win, so you mitigate low roll games to still reach top 4 and use high roll ones to go for first.
The RNG's purpose is for variation, the problem that I and many others faced while grinding to Gladiator last time is that in the higher ranks you just saw the exact same champions building the exact same items with the exact same augments. This way it throws a wrench in there and forces you to switch up your strategies to optimize the hand you were dealt, which is a welcome change in terms of game freshness and longevity imo.
Rank unfortunately doesn't really mean much now anyway since you don't lose GR/LP until Gladiator rank anymore. Kinda sad about it, but I agree it at least helps the game maintain players longterm since rank-anxious players don't have to worry and people like me who grind to the top don't burn out on the same few champs to try and climb.
I agree, I don't mind the presence of RNG, that's why I want less RNG but not no RNG. Basically, I just don't want RNG to be the determining factor. I don't think anyone enjoys a game where a bad roll ensures your demise. One simple change is probably just make sure that every augment or prismatic item roll is useful. So no AP prismatic items for Draven for example.
And yea ranked is a bit weird. In this case I understand Riot's dilemma. If there's no ranked then there's no incentive to play but if you split the game into casual and ranked queues you'll mess up match-making.
RNG doesn't correlate to skill expression 1-2-1 like you seem to think it does. The implementation of RNG is important, and you're too focused on it just existing. Poker is incredibly RNG but no one would be stupid enough to say the RNG removes the massive amounts of skill expression.
One of the amazing parts of skill expression in Arena is managing the RNG. Adapting your builds, skill orders, augments, playstyle, etc. on the fly. More situations are created where you have to think and play more than just layer one ideas and a lot more skill expressive situations are created.
>Poker is incredibly RNG but no one would be stupid enough to say the RNG removes the massive amounts of skill expression.
RNG does remove a massive amount of skill expression, it just creates new types of skill expression at the same time
I agree, I just want less RNG but not no RNG.
I think it was a pretty clever option to allow you to pay less to roll an item. That way you manage probability like a resource which is an aspect of strategy.
I just don't like when RNG can completely gut you. Like if you're playing Draven and the prismatic items are AP focused even after 2 rolls. Or I'm forced to run the "center of the universe" or "chauffeur" prismatic augment. I don't mind that you're stuck with 3 trash augments when you have no re-rolls, that's my fault for not saving them until the prismatic shows up. But I think Riot should ensure that if you have 2 re-rolls, you're guaranteed to get something optimal for your champ.
My fear is that Riot has the mentality where they want a silver player to play on par with a diamond player and enjoy the game. And they think the way to achieve this is for the diamond player to play partially AP draven against the silver player's full tank Mundo.
> There's absolutely nothing wrong with Arena being a legitimate mode that rewards deliberate practice.
There is if you want the mode to be permanent, as people would just stop being fairly quickly before, including the sweaters.
Sorry I don't fully understand. Isn't the point of modes being permanent so that you benefit from playing it repeatedly? Also I'm hearing the term "sweaters" more but I don't know what it means.
I'm not trying to call out your comment, I genuinely don't think I completely grasp your point
Riot has made the point that previous iterations of Arena completely lost its charm and fanbase, so going for a swap of audience trying to grasp the casual people (that includes all of the changes making it more RNG-heavy) is a hit for trying to make the mode permanent.
Personally, I'd agree introducing ranks is counter-productive for their goal of making it more casual-friendly. Maybe it's a vestige of the past Arena versions, maybe it's a compromise for trying to not shoo-away people that likes ranked, who knows, but it's just odd. AFAIK Aram doesn't have a ranked ladder.
About 'sweaters', it's this: the addition of "ER" to the end of the word can mean 2 things: It's either "Greater than" in a comparison, or, in this case, "One who does this". So "Sweater" would be one who sweats. A try-hard, basically.
Awesome thanks for explaining!
I don't have the metrics to back up Riot's choice. Maybe it is the case that more casual means more retention which would be a shame to me. I think Arena has alot of potential to be a competitive mode while still being fun.
Although it seems like many posts and comments seem to say they are leaving this iteration and prefer the previous ones. Personally I don't really know why. This iteration fell short of expectations in how much of an improvement it would be, but I think overall it's slightly better than the previous ones.
unless we can random roll for a random champion in exchange for extra gold or augment, the same 20 champion problem isn't going away.
Item and augment changes will result in a different set of 20 champions due to nature of arena, but it will still be a limited pool of 20 champions every game.
i like this idea actually, get a boost for picking a random champ, problem is rolling an S tier champ and getting extra benefits would suck to play against.
What about something like riven dispositions in warframe, if a champ is played less they get way better rng benefits and the most played champs would get no benefit.
> We've been experimenting with some blast cone placements and timings to make the spawn locations more fair
Please god let there be a blast cone on the big island.
They brought back 60% GW which I can definitely feel but it’s almost impossible to proc consistently with Thornmail atm, I wouldn’t mind if they brought back the GW on CC but also make it where the GW duration is increased proportionally to the CC length
Perma CC chains still have Combo Breaker but it feels nigh useless against Knock-Up spam and takes too long to kick in. I wouldn’t be opposed to just buffing the damage of CC spammers like Morgana/Alistar and lowering the threshold for Combo Breaker to proc (I can’t remember the last time I’ve lost as Alistar lmao)
I got Ali and got reality fractures then full tank after and voidlings alone did 28k damage out of my 50k when we won. Full tank works if u get reality fracture first
My problem with Alistar isn't his tankiness, it's his CC. Even without any ability haste augments or anything, he can still spam his abilities so much. Might not be OP, but it's not fun to play against.
Fair enough. I think there are a few characters that can get stupid frustrating with the right "bread and butter" or equivalent augment though.
Probably gotta give him some extra damage on his abilities or something to make him viable (if his Q cooldown needs to be increased). Because even with this frustration he isn't great.
But maybe he isn't great because people are going for stalling strategies on him? who knows?
Yeah, I am curious how win rates work for arena as far as revealing a champion's true strength. Not claiming they're useless by any means, but I feel like it's more likely people will choose "wrong" items and augments compared to summoner's rift. Some picks may also be strong but only with specific partners, which would also make it difficult.
Yea. It's why I usually like lolalytics https://lolalytics.com/lol/tierlist/arena/ because you can go in and look at winrates with different items at different times.
https://lolalytics.com/lol/alistar/arena/build/
Like it looks like most Ali players are going heartsteel first when they probably shouldn't be. With Knights vow his winrate jumps, so he is actually good in a real Tank+Carry comp rather than these stall comps that people are picking him into
Eh, ppl just go heartsteel on all champs vs all comps, and it sucks most of the time. Only champs that it is worth is hp scalers like mundo, sett, and even then, it's still worthless if the lobby is 60%+ ranged
I sometimes wonder how much the Heartsteel quest augment affects the Heartsteel winrate. The quest does nothing until you have 325+ stacks and that often takes ~6-8 rounds unless you also get the item haste augment. Unless you sell your prismatic you arent getting heartsteel until like round 5 or something to begin with?
Like what if Heartsteel is okay and it is just that the Heartsteel quest augment is a throw?
I played a game of Rammus and faced an irelia that just stood still in my taunt and outhealed my thornmail+ massive amounts of armor damage during W. Shits fucked.
This. Had a game against red Kayn+ Sona.
As K'sante fro has terrible ad scallings I was forced to buy Bruiser GW item, because MF just refused to aa me and proc thornmail.
I don't even talk about Vlad, who is nightmare to deal in this mode.
The perma cc problem is primarily due to the stupidly easy accessibility of ability haste. Some augments give a good chunk of ability haste which is too oppressive when spammable.
So far, I haven't really had any problems with "uninteractive" healing. Mundo's healing is overpowered, but he's really one of the few exceptions.
They keep saying that being able to choose your build hurts replayability. So why can we choose our builds in summoners rift? The most replaysble game mode.of all time?
The problem si that they made this so rng it feels awful. Pick a champ, dont get good setup. Welp your skill doennt matter. You'll get one shot and wont deal damage. What riot doesnt understand is that skill expression IS the fun of league and removing it doesnt make it more fun it Just makes the gamemode bland. They alredy did the same error with nexus blitz and its tiring to see the same misstake
Tbf, these rounds are the only good equalizer to save early game champs from later hyperscalers (who are already overpowered) rn.
Deleting them would push Rek'Sai/Fizz/Ekko et al. even lower than they already are
Not sure why tanks and bruisers weren’t placed at the top for the biggest problem in the mode…alongside all this healing, regardless of the grievous wounds change. Arena is not worth playing until those are looked at.
Am I the only one who thinks Jhin is single handedly ruining the mode? Like they scrapped most of the champ additions and kept the most annoying ones? Just remove them completely at that point
still doesnt make sense to me that
last arena was played primarily by ranked players according to riot --> enough of these ranked players seemed to play the mode to make it popular enough to be brought back --> its now catered to casuals?
casuals have normals, flex, aram, EVERY rotating gamemode whether its urf or a pve mode, but ranked players get to play only ranked for years and thats ok i guess? makes even less sense that they made it so rng casual friendly but are still adding ranks
No it’s not ok. ALL players have been begging for a different permanent map for years. They took away Dominion and TT and nothing has replaced them. Even casuals want an additional permanent game mode/map. Arena is good fun but it’s definitely not catered to casuals. Riot might say it is but it’s the most sweaty mode ever.
> In the short term, this may be frustrating, but we have enough learnings from TFT and other games that we feel confident in this approach directionally.
What does this even mean?
That frustration is an important emotion in maintaining engagement. It's also just a generally important part of video games being fun. It makes the highs significantly higher. See: Dark Souls
Oh, okay, I guess I get it. Pretty interesting comparison though. The frustration in Dark Souls is always paired with the thought that YOU could have played it better. It's a bit of a cheesy term maybe, but you could call it "meaningful". That's not the case in Arena, where it's just a matter of luck. You could argue that the frustration you feel in Arena is of a different nature, because the message there is that your turn to have fun has been delayed. That's not really a "meaningful" form of frustration.
Hope that makes sense. In any case, thanks for engaging, I understand why I don't like the new Arena better now.
"Directionally" means "this is the right _kind_ of thing to do, even if the exact thing we're doing is not right." They're saying that they feel confident in the overall design philosophy, but aren't sure they've implemented it correctly yet.
I hope they come to their senses and finally get rid of the stage hazards in general. All they do is disrupt gameplay - I’ve never loaded into a single round and seen ANY of the stage hazards and thought “YES! I’m so excited to play with this”. They range from mildly annoying to actively making the game unfun, and it just adds so many “feels bad” moments.
I respectfully disagree. While I think some stage hazards like jhin and thresh feel random and unfair, others like sett, pyke, and lux are predictable hazards players can play around, providing a new win condition and forcing players to approach the round from a different angle.
At least for me, winning and losing due to those hazards made some of my favorite moments in the mode.
In my opinion, they are worse than they are better, for the fun and health of arena. Before a round starts, I already have to account for up to 4 different augments per champ, plus their items (including Prismatics), stat changes, juices, and the extra round bonuses (free Reroll and 15 HP or lose 40HP on loss)… and then I get about 3 seconds when the round loads in to craft a coherent plan based on what the hazard is. I don’t think it makes for good gameplay to have so many factors out of your control that affect how a matchup will go.
The fact that they don’t even really have a cooldown period is just…. honestly so stupid.
Sett and Lux are nice to play around. Pyke can be irritating but also create some good outplays. Thresh and Jhin make both winning and losing feel out of my control at times.
I think the 168 champions challenge is tough but would totally be an awesome one to keep as a separate challenge. Perhaps an "Arena Master" and "Arena God" distinction for the 60/168 champions.
I have nothing to add to this thread but if anyone reads this comment; If you get the augment "Marksmage" on Elise, pick it, its a free win. My teammate picked it and finished the game with it doing around 37k damage by the end of the game.
Don’t know if this is a bug, but the augment where when you die you have three seconds to get a takedown or die, if you are Trynd and ult after the augment activates you will still die after three seconds while your ult is still running.
I just wish the AP prismatic items felt better or just wern't so bad. i see the same 6 mage based Prismatic items every game and only 1 of them actually feels good (voidgrub spawning one) the others all feel very lackluster or just not good that it feels better to just sell the prismatic and buy a legendary item, not like it means much since mages just dont feel good in the mode just like the last 2 iterations of the mode.
Mages are good they just take more skill to play and therefore get run over if you don't know how to play them well. And there's great mage prismatics what do you even mean... cruelty, runecarver, detonation orb, reality fracture, and everfrost are all strong items that most mages can get use out of.
And you see up to 9 of them on first pick yeah pretty good chance of hitting one. Also that wasn't comprehensive just off the top of my head there's plenty of other great options like uhh the locket that's fucking insane like 200+ AP, moonflair is great, sanguine thingy, night harvester how many do I need to name?
Seems like skill issue or super low roll
Not every mage can use every item, the reroll locket feels like ass until you hit that godly roll and it may be too late, the moon fair blade is only really useful on the ap fighters. Not sure what the sanguine thing even is.
I'm talking for mages, the prismatic items are just too niche to work with most mages where only 1 or 2 options are actually good for them. Then they threw in a bunch of the generalist ones because riot didn't know what to do.
Remove Koi Pond. It’s the worst map in gaming history. How are they not aware of how shitty it is? They mentioned it in the notes but aren’t doing anything about it. Remove it. There’s zero fun. There’s not a single person who enjoys that map.
It has highs when you get skillshot teams taking potshots at each other. The other small map with the one healing flower in the middle needed to die in a fire two arenas ago though.
>**- Arena God games from 168 >>> 60** I can't believe they genuinely thought anybody would be able to feasibly score 1st place in an 8-team gamemode with RNG cranked up to 11...With 90% of League's Champion roster.
It's more like 101%, since there are 167 champions now and the next (rabbit) champion isn't out yet.
Wtf? They made an achievement that you can't unlock until you buy a champ that isn't out yet?
Probably an oversight.
There were several challenges like this when challenges first released, mainly things like own x amount of marksmen champs.
These are still like this, unable to be completed.
The collection challenges for buying different champions have been this way since the challenge system was released.
How confident are we that the champion will be a rabbit?
Quite confident since it has already been pretty much confirmed that it'll be a Rabbit-like Vastayan.
Riot - confirmed levels of confident
Thank you u/Phroxz0n for this one! Been playing ~10 games a day since patch went to main servers and only at 11 wins so far. I was confident I could finish 'Champ Ocean', but even with a first place rate of 20% I was really struggling to see how I would hit the God title. Good change while still being ~300-500 games.
I played alot and im at 4 wins. And I refuse to play tierlist.
Yeah I am at 56 games and my winrate feels pretty high to me.
There were weirdos that complained it ruins the challenge and they "wah wah I don't wanna play this mode anymore"
is the challenge to get wins with 60 different champions, or just 60 first place wins total?
60 different champions
I see thank you!
I'm currently at 20 wins and needless to say getting 168 wins with different champions in the span of 4 months is something that only deranged players like me would attempt to do. Fair enough. However, I hope they bump it back up to 168 when Arena becomes a permanent mode, otherwise It takes away from the accomplishment IMO. How am I an Arena God if I haven't won with every champion? In my opinion It's a way better goal to chase than Arena ELO. What will happen to the challenge If Arena were to become permanent? u/phroxz0n
Arena will be up for 4 months?
Yes
Just doing some math for if the challenge was getting a 1st instead of winning. Based on my personal math as someone who has gotten 1st on 110 different champions in arena 1-2 solo. Assuming you aren't perma sitting in low elo(I hovered gladiator for basically all of that except maybe 10 when I was climbing). It took me around 411 games which is about 137 hours if you estimate 20 minutes per arena game, I stopped on senna cause I was tired of arena at that point, but the end half of the list looks significantly less hard than the initial half (Fuck bard, it took me 34 games). So I'd assume it would've only taken me another 200 games to get the 60 ish 1st place wins. Which means during arena 1-2 it would've taken about 200 hours to get a first with every champ assuming 20 minutes per game (I'm trying to take into account queues). 200 hours for an achievement sounds pretty rough but now that were in arena 3 and player count has doubled per game. So your looking at 400 hours if you want to do it legit. The problem with the 400 hour estimate, is that getting a 1st in high elo with certain champs is impossible when you have certain teamates and your opponents have a certain comp. You can just lack damage or lack tankiness, no matter how high you highroll. This leads to shit champs being even harder to get a first on then before, I'd estimate 3-4 times harder instead of 2 times, this means that the majority of your time which is taken up usually by those shit champs, is now 3-4 times longer. I would estimate this brings up the challenge time to get a 1st on every arena champ to somewhere between 450-550 hours, assuming your hovering a decent elo. To be fair I'm also assuming that my 411 games for 110 champs is about the statistical average and top 4'ing has an entirely different strategically approach so I won't state with confidence the hour requirement to get all champs a top 4.
For reference, I duo like half my games, with my current pace It’ll take about 650 games (obviously the weaker champs will probably increase it to like 800ish) If we look at EUW vs TR summoners rift soloq, my server’s high ELO is definitely a bit easier so doing the challenge in major servers will take longer. My estimation is around 1000 games without abusing premade ELO. https://challenges.darkintaqt.com/tr/Fanna-F2nna
I mean if you farm low elo games to win with every champ, are you really a god? Definitely not, but it would definitely be the best strategy to make it achievable if it were 168.
You'd definitely need 7 other people constantly switching in&out of low elo accounts for that to happen, but yeah you could game the system. When I'm playing solo I keep seeing the same players most of the time, so It's not that easy for me to farm first place. Even when I queue with low elo friends it puts us into higher elos really quickly. I could be wrong but the matchmaking is very trigger happy in terms of putting you in higher elos when you get a win
Yeah i’m in masters/diamond lobby’s and it’s sooo hard playing suboptimal champions. Ak shan took me 15 games for a 1st
Renata's Q and the "Bread and Butter" augment is bugged: If you miss your Q you get the 200 AH, but if you hit your Q, the AH is not applied.
Refresh also does not work on zyra W, really feels bad
Yeah, Zyra’s plants also don’t proc a few of the augments, which makes her feel pretty weak.
It feels so miserable playing no augment zyra bc you assumed something would work
Insane amount of small stuff like this, does not seem they take rare bugs like this seriously or maybe they can't with all the tech-debt in the engine. I had a game where Mystic punch didn't work on my Yorick Q, Plants won't reduce cd of Rakan's Q and E ect...
yeah, it begins with serpents fang saying it reduces shields by 0,5% and ends with zyra killing 500mr 9k health starry night cloak zac within 3 seconds without any discernible reason the obv balancing issues aside, some prismatics like the orb deal like 500 dmg per rounds while cruelty easily does 4 times that
Was the same in last arena
16 bans please
Personally agree, but I did have a post where [Phroxz0n explained thoughts against in some context before:](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1c68w92/arena_030_initial_thoughts/) >The client could handle 16 bans, but it took up too much space, extended time in champ select and played against breadth motivations of the mode. >If we're trying to encourage people to play more stuff, more bans works against that. Having said that, too few bans, means a few meta dominant picks. >If we allowed everyone to ban at once, there were too many duplicates selected. Best threading of design intent and all of the above was 8 bans. I do still believe 16 bans would feel better from a player agency perspective even if time to game jumped from dodgers.
"Encourage players to play more stuff". More bans would work directly towards that, because with current bans 95% of the games have the same broken ass champions. As the game mode is now, its extremely stale and boring after a short while because there aren't enough bans to remove the problem champions so variety could be had.
I think I only see 3 champs get banned in more than 70% of my games (Trundle, Yi, Brand) and even then I am always banning trundle so that one just makes sense to regularly see.
>because with current bans 95% of the games have the same broken ass champions. I don't see the same champs 95% of the time personally, but I don't get why people think more bans fixes this anyway. People will still pick the same champs, it'll just be a few more in that pool.
More bans means that more of the super high outliers will be banned in general which leads to more picks being viable. Something with a ~50% win rate can probably be competitive with something at ~55%, but will generally be ass blasted by some of those champs that are ~58%+
No always the same champions, but always some champions. There's always a Brand, Darius, Trundle.
The solution is random pool draft arena, clearly. Up the insanity level.
I would welcome random arena, would be fun
Would absolutely love that. They are already playing way too safe with the arena RNG, which is also its biggest problem. The problem champs become more problematic, because the RNG is limited. You can only get certain augments with certain classes, so its way too easy to get said broken augments on the problem champions. More RNG is the solution to make it more fun.
This is the intuitive belief and I would think so too, but I'm willing to trust Phroxzon if he says otherwise.
Because hes not thinking about the optimal way to do it. Hes thinking about "rito way of doing it". They don't aim for all champions to be played. Rito has always been balancing the game with the "who holds the stick" mentality. Something is always broken, then they balance it so something else is broken, not aiming to actually balance the game. Same applies to his mentality here. "Encouraging to play more champions" applies just to the next most broken champs that don't get in the very limited ban window.
We're on the same page, just playing messenger. I think the most reasonable bottleneck that some Rioter undoubtedly has as a KPI is "Time to Game" and satisfaction around that particular metric as it is low hanging fruit from an objective data perspective.
One of the main points of this most is that the popular champs you are seeing all the time aren't even necessarily the strongest, so not even deserving of bans
Yea, except everytime one of the usual suspects is left unbanned, there will be 2-3 of them in each lobby. And there are more than 8 horribly unbalanced champs for this mode. So you will just deal with the next worst thing instead, which wont make it any better considering there are what? 140+ champs now or more, can't even keep up at this point. Out of 140+ champs, roughly 30 see play. Thats just dogshit design all around, no matter what side you look at it from.
>If everyone banned at once there were too many duplicates >only give players 8 bans More than half the fucking lobby would need to duplicate bans. On average there is no way there would be less than 8 bans AND it'd be faster than current pick ban. Riot smoking crack like normal, gotta love their 500 years :V
You want 16 bans to **ensure** champion variety, encourage people play less popular champs. Their other two arguments fall flat as well.
if I can't ban the champ I want, I'm not playing fr. Having my own ban last time at least meant I could play the game mode. Now I'm just ignoring it
If they want people to build around prismatic items they should: 1) make prismatics worth building around (right now most of them are just old mythics that don’t require you to build around them) 2) make you choose prismatic at the start because right now you’ve already invested 1 augment, starting item, boots and 5 skill points so it’s very hard to change build that that point. (I’m not saying you should have a prismatic item on round 1 but they should make some kind of system where you know on round 1 which prismatic or which category of prismatic you’re going to end up getting eventually)
Also make it so atleast one prismatic in each reroll belongs to class of your champ. It sucks ass getting 3 ap prismatic items when on shit like zed
They also need to be somewhat relatable to your champion. Vlad doesn’t need crit and attack speed, why am offered 3 adc in a row? Makes no sense
Love these changes. Riots definitely going in the right direction on this one.
On Koi pond just make it so the lillypad no longer closes when the burn zone appears. It is too punishing for champs that do not have mobility.
Also make the hit box detection for clicking blast cones and the portals smaller but also have priority. So often I click them on accident but the second someone stands on them I cannot click them anymore. Maybe a skill issue but the detection radius for the portals in particular is crazy big and makes it too easy to send yourself to doom
Zilean passive is currently useless. He can't earn enough xp to give to give to an ally to level them up, because the XP in the mode doesn't send you partway through a level. Only rarely can he lvl 17-18 and by that point in the game its basically useless
They reworked Ornn passive for the mode. Might be useful to give Zilean a lvl 10>11 skip for self and ally once a game.
Sorry to ask, trying to google this but not finding anything. What did they do for Ornn's passive?
from the wiki: >- Bonus health and resistances changed to 15%. >- New Effect: Instead of upgrading items, now grants a permanent discount on Anvils for the team: - 100 Gold 100 for Stat Bonus Anvil, - 200 Gold 200 for Legendary Class-specific Item Anvil, - 250 Gold 250 for Prismatic Item Anvil.
Oh that's kinda cracked. Thank you!
He reduced the cost of anvils for both himself and his ally, -10% I believe
All Zilean passive needs to be good in arena is allow him to use it round 2 Round 1: Level 3 Round 2: Level 5 So Zilean turns your teammate from 5 -> 6. Could work very well with some combos to power spike on round 2 to get a much easier round and win a round you werent supposed to.
Wisdom of the ages gives you early level 6 now and it's so huge if your champ has a good ult. This might be the push Zilean needs without making him annoying to face by just pumping numbers. Nobody likes playing against Zilean as it is already lol.
I had a Zilean game where I leveled my teammate from 17 to 18 actually (extremely broken i know). I had ROA so i was already level 18...
>Having said that, we agree that some of the elements are not tuned correctly and being exacerbated by Jhin's tuning Genuinely, koi pond + getting shot by Jhin who spawned behind us makes me not want to queue up for arena. The lows in this game mode are so low and so miserable.
I love when I'm playing an AD champion with literally 0 AP scaling and 3 of the first 6 prismatic I see are AP items.
They should just let us pick which of the classes the prismatics roll from. If they did that I wouldn’t even mind not being able to reroll them at all
Their problem right now is too few prismatics, too many classes would basically get to cherrypick their best prismatic every round. Once they add a bunch more prismatics then something like that would make sense.
Make Prismatic item and Augments reroll different pool, so you don't have to choose between rolling first Augments and hoping for good Prismatic item RNG and vice versa. Remove the Stats Anvil rounds, and just give gold instead, like 2750 so you can get the stats anyways every few rounds, or RNG with Legendary Anvil + Stats Anvil - can't make wacky off meta builds get online if I need one more item to contest some metaslaving Andy who instalocks Brand every game he's open and rolls magic missle, and I get to choose between 10% tenacity or 11 armor penetration as AP Rengar for whooping 6th place.
I swear every time I've seen a brand they get either magic missile or phenomenal evil first augment. Meanwhile I've just played 4 games of jhin and wasn't offered an AD prismatic at all.
Everyone wants gold instead of stat anvils. This is by far the most common complaint and Riot just ignores it because some stupid project manager probably invented stat anvil rounds and doenst want to see their baby axed. Stat anvils? Great. Star anvil rounds? Bullshit.
nerf runecarver
Voidgrubs over here like >.>
I fuckin love the squad of boys. It also tends to do like 3k damage the first prismatic round so not sure it should spawn 3 each time lol
its even more insane it also applies onspell effects, got it on Zyra as well as minion mancer and it was basically a free 1st, for once a mage felt like it was on the same level as the team of 2 bruisers.
Nothing like fighting Zyra and Dinger when one of them gets it and you die instantly to adds.
Yep. The item is beyond broken in every single way. It by itself deals a ton of damage, it creates minions that block enemy projectiles, it procs item effects, it synergizes with various other augments such as the one that makes your minions 50% stronger, and so on. After Jhin that one has been my greatest frustration in arena by miles.
Not to mention the mental damage it does to the opponent when they get creep blocked by the little shits (it’s me, the opponent fighting the urge to punch a hole in my monitor when I lose a round off of it)
Ohyeah, I forgot the creep block. It has completely fucked me over, as in it made me lose that round, at least twice so far.
so, they would apply rylai? i knew about liandry but what other spell effects are there tbh?
Yes, Rylai. I assume they'd trigger that Hatchet and and whichever other effect I forget about that's on ability hit too.
>for once a mage felt like it was on the same level as the team of 2 bruisers Doesn't like half of S tier in arena consist of mages?
Are mages S tier or is it just the void grub item?
Buff everything else.
Love it guys thank you
They aren't touching healing at all, I wish they would just give the healing nerf baseline in the mode, similar to the lifesteal nerf in ARAM.
They buffed Griveous Wounds to 60%
Healing is this mode is the only way you can be tank at all, stacking resistances and health is useless you need healing and or shielding to actually be able to tank
Healing is bonkers on edge cases though. It's not tanking it's just an unkillable bruiser when you constantly see Aatrox and Red Kayn every game. Both do shit tons of damage and you can't even push them below 50% hp.
Aatrox cannot drain tank unless he's against a comp with zero damage because he doesn't do meaningful damage without building full lethality. This obviously leaves him at risk of being one shot. Grievous Wounds is extremely OP in Arena, and there are many augments that allow you to stack infinitely to counter healing.
Aatrox's healing gets to be so much that he can blow through GW and still outsustain because of how easy it is to stack healing in Arena and 60% takes time to go off. Why do you think him and Red Kayn are so popular? Tanky, crazy sustain, great damage and inescapable.
Healing is really only a problem for champions that have insane heal scaling like Mundo, Zac, and Vladimir. Nerfing heals across the board is a lazy solution.
Another easy W that Rito refuses to implement for some reason
Looks good to me, I'm just happy it's not another hands-off approach. But please change the Spatula to not count takedowns retroactively. I prefer my highrolls to have some flair to them, not just "gold tier on second augment? Time to roll which teams are locked top 3"
In my opinion spatula should be removed. If a champ who can use all the stats gets it, especially early, that team becomes astronomically tough to beat
I'm okay with it if it's the high-risk high-reward choice it was designed to be. If you take it and have to get 10 takedowns while being an augment down, you kind of deserve a big reward. Taking it while having 9 takedowns already and getting the payout from a stray assist defeats the purpose.
the stats are fine but on fire buff is degenerate cdr
Yup, I got it on Vlad alongside 200 AH on W. My pool had a 1.7s cooldown. It lasts 2 seconds so I was permanent in pool. If you mash Q + W you will actually be able to cast Q when re-entering pool. Shit was even more disgusting then Brand + Runecarver.
They could do a lot of augment balance by disabling many on certain rounds (like TFT has done a lot of). Like picking the item haste one as first augment is horrible.
Riots philosophy regarding this mode is actually so disgusting
Buff talisman, its such a useless item.
It has high highs and isn't supposed to be consistently good. i think it does it's job well
The Lux Yasuo comparison is terrible, if you play that matchup then yeah it sucks in lane but you can still *do* something through roams and later on with picks and teamfights. If you low roll in Arena on a champion that isn't one of the top 20 ish meta staples, then you just suffer for the entire game.
Exactly
as many others have said i will repeat: i agree big time that they basically "nerfed" skill expression and upped the roulette shit. this update is a big step back to what prior arena was.
and all the RNG just means the same champions get picked more often because their less impacted by bad RNG.
Yep. Why try a weaker champion if it has to high roll to be viable at all? The only weaker champions that don’t feel awful are ones that are very flexible with items, like Teemo.
Armed and ready *Builds something that would disgust the lowest iron player*
Odd way to say Brand. Seriously, he's probably the best champion if your RNG is shit as he can run so many things well.
Riot is trying way too hard to appeal to the broader casual playerbase. That's why the difference between the 1st and 2d iteration vs the 3rd iteration of Arena was radical as hell.
I would liked to see revives sacrificing current % health or something to have some way of punishing tanks like alistar who play the waiting game.
Alistar isn't that good anymore since they nerfed him really hard alongside Poppy. His stalling strat really only works when your DPS is horse shit.
What ali nerfs new ones?
Not new. Last summer, he received pretty detrimental nerfs which extended the cooldown of his W and R. His current winrate right now is really bad.
Sacrificing health would affect everyone else harder than tanks. An Alistar won't care that he goes from 8k hp to 7k, a Jinx going from 3k to 2.5k would be much worse off.
I dont understand the purpose of nerfing skill expression whilst introducing ranks. If you're casual and not as good cause you don't play as much, you'll match up against people of a similar skill anyway. Why does Riot assume that having no agency due to RNG dominance is entertaining? Less RNG please. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Arena being a legitimate mode that rewards deliberate practice.
With the addition of 4 teams up to 8 you have to use TFT aproach. Top 4 is a win, so you mitigate low roll games to still reach top 4 and use high roll ones to go for first.
They said that less rng means less replayability. I think that's a fair assessment but it's definitely a fine line to balance.
The RNG's purpose is for variation, the problem that I and many others faced while grinding to Gladiator last time is that in the higher ranks you just saw the exact same champions building the exact same items with the exact same augments. This way it throws a wrench in there and forces you to switch up your strategies to optimize the hand you were dealt, which is a welcome change in terms of game freshness and longevity imo. Rank unfortunately doesn't really mean much now anyway since you don't lose GR/LP until Gladiator rank anymore. Kinda sad about it, but I agree it at least helps the game maintain players longterm since rank-anxious players don't have to worry and people like me who grind to the top don't burn out on the same few champs to try and climb.
I agree, I don't mind the presence of RNG, that's why I want less RNG but not no RNG. Basically, I just don't want RNG to be the determining factor. I don't think anyone enjoys a game where a bad roll ensures your demise. One simple change is probably just make sure that every augment or prismatic item roll is useful. So no AP prismatic items for Draven for example. And yea ranked is a bit weird. In this case I understand Riot's dilemma. If there's no ranked then there's no incentive to play but if you split the game into casual and ranked queues you'll mess up match-making.
RNG doesn't correlate to skill expression 1-2-1 like you seem to think it does. The implementation of RNG is important, and you're too focused on it just existing. Poker is incredibly RNG but no one would be stupid enough to say the RNG removes the massive amounts of skill expression. One of the amazing parts of skill expression in Arena is managing the RNG. Adapting your builds, skill orders, augments, playstyle, etc. on the fly. More situations are created where you have to think and play more than just layer one ideas and a lot more skill expressive situations are created.
>Poker is incredibly RNG but no one would be stupid enough to say the RNG removes the massive amounts of skill expression. RNG does remove a massive amount of skill expression, it just creates new types of skill expression at the same time
I agree, I just want less RNG but not no RNG. I think it was a pretty clever option to allow you to pay less to roll an item. That way you manage probability like a resource which is an aspect of strategy. I just don't like when RNG can completely gut you. Like if you're playing Draven and the prismatic items are AP focused even after 2 rolls. Or I'm forced to run the "center of the universe" or "chauffeur" prismatic augment. I don't mind that you're stuck with 3 trash augments when you have no re-rolls, that's my fault for not saving them until the prismatic shows up. But I think Riot should ensure that if you have 2 re-rolls, you're guaranteed to get something optimal for your champ. My fear is that Riot has the mentality where they want a silver player to play on par with a diamond player and enjoy the game. And they think the way to achieve this is for the diamond player to play partially AP draven against the silver player's full tank Mundo.
Instead of making a game with a cohesive idea they’re letting stats and play rates guide them too much.
> There's absolutely nothing wrong with Arena being a legitimate mode that rewards deliberate practice. There is if you want the mode to be permanent, as people would just stop being fairly quickly before, including the sweaters.
Sorry I don't fully understand. Isn't the point of modes being permanent so that you benefit from playing it repeatedly? Also I'm hearing the term "sweaters" more but I don't know what it means. I'm not trying to call out your comment, I genuinely don't think I completely grasp your point
Riot has made the point that previous iterations of Arena completely lost its charm and fanbase, so going for a swap of audience trying to grasp the casual people (that includes all of the changes making it more RNG-heavy) is a hit for trying to make the mode permanent. Personally, I'd agree introducing ranks is counter-productive for their goal of making it more casual-friendly. Maybe it's a vestige of the past Arena versions, maybe it's a compromise for trying to not shoo-away people that likes ranked, who knows, but it's just odd. AFAIK Aram doesn't have a ranked ladder. About 'sweaters', it's this: the addition of "ER" to the end of the word can mean 2 things: It's either "Greater than" in a comparison, or, in this case, "One who does this". So "Sweater" would be one who sweats. A try-hard, basically.
Awesome thanks for explaining! I don't have the metrics to back up Riot's choice. Maybe it is the case that more casual means more retention which would be a shame to me. I think Arena has alot of potential to be a competitive mode while still being fun. Although it seems like many posts and comments seem to say they are leaving this iteration and prefer the previous ones. Personally I don't really know why. This iteration fell short of expectations in how much of an improvement it would be, but I think overall it's slightly better than the previous ones.
unless we can random roll for a random champion in exchange for extra gold or augment, the same 20 champion problem isn't going away. Item and augment changes will result in a different set of 20 champions due to nature of arena, but it will still be a limited pool of 20 champions every game.
i like this idea actually, get a boost for picking a random champ, problem is rolling an S tier champ and getting extra benefits would suck to play against.
What about something like riven dispositions in warframe, if a champ is played less they get way better rng benefits and the most played champs would get no benefit.
> We've been experimenting with some blast cone placements and timings to make the spawn locations more fair Please god let there be a blast cone on the big island.
Fuck it, just cover every square inch of each island in blastcones, but make them not respawn.
So, no changes to getting perma cc'd and uninteractive healing?
They brought back 60% GW which I can definitely feel but it’s almost impossible to proc consistently with Thornmail atm, I wouldn’t mind if they brought back the GW on CC but also make it where the GW duration is increased proportionally to the CC length Perma CC chains still have Combo Breaker but it feels nigh useless against Knock-Up spam and takes too long to kick in. I wouldn’t be opposed to just buffing the damage of CC spammers like Morgana/Alistar and lowering the threshold for Combo Breaker to proc (I can’t remember the last time I’ve lost as Alistar lmao)
Based on stats Alistar is kinda useless
Based on stats all tanks are garbage and their winrates increase if they build damage items. Yet people here will act like tanks are unkillable.
I got Ali and got reality fractures then full tank after and voidlings alone did 28k damage out of my 50k when we won. Full tank works if u get reality fracture first
It’s because those moments against the unkillable tanks stand out more than anything
My problem with Alistar isn't his tankiness, it's his CC. Even without any ability haste augments or anything, he can still spam his abilities so much. Might not be OP, but it's not fun to play against.
Fair enough. I think there are a few characters that can get stupid frustrating with the right "bread and butter" or equivalent augment though. Probably gotta give him some extra damage on his abilities or something to make him viable (if his Q cooldown needs to be increased). Because even with this frustration he isn't great. But maybe he isn't great because people are going for stalling strategies on him? who knows?
Yeah, I am curious how win rates work for arena as far as revealing a champion's true strength. Not claiming they're useless by any means, but I feel like it's more likely people will choose "wrong" items and augments compared to summoner's rift. Some picks may also be strong but only with specific partners, which would also make it difficult.
Yea. It's why I usually like lolalytics https://lolalytics.com/lol/tierlist/arena/ because you can go in and look at winrates with different items at different times. https://lolalytics.com/lol/alistar/arena/build/ Like it looks like most Ali players are going heartsteel first when they probably shouldn't be. With Knights vow his winrate jumps, so he is actually good in a real Tank+Carry comp rather than these stall comps that people are picking him into
Eh, ppl just go heartsteel on all champs vs all comps, and it sucks most of the time. Only champs that it is worth is hp scalers like mundo, sett, and even then, it's still worthless if the lobby is 60%+ ranged
I sometimes wonder how much the Heartsteel quest augment affects the Heartsteel winrate. The quest does nothing until you have 325+ stacks and that often takes ~6-8 rounds unless you also get the item haste augment. Unless you sell your prismatic you arent getting heartsteel until like round 5 or something to begin with? Like what if Heartsteel is okay and it is just that the Heartsteel quest augment is a throw?
I played a game of Rammus and faced an irelia that just stood still in my taunt and outhealed my thornmail+ massive amounts of armor damage during W. Shits fucked.
lol, arena rammus player complaining is pretty funny
Picked it because the other 7 teams all had AA heavy ad users, whats wrong with that?
He’s a good pick and I think that Irelia was an exception. He’s super good at denying people plants with his taunts too.
Yea, healing has the biggest highroll potential. With the right items/augments it kind if just starts compounding on itself
This. Had a game against red Kayn+ Sona. As K'sante fro has terrible ad scallings I was forced to buy Bruiser GW item, because MF just refused to aa me and proc thornmail. I don't even talk about Vlad, who is nightmare to deal in this mode.
You mean combobreak and improved GW against high healing? Yes, they introduced both.
The perma cc problem is primarily due to the stupidly easy accessibility of ability haste. Some augments give a good chunk of ability haste which is too oppressive when spammable. So far, I haven't really had any problems with "uninteractive" healing. Mundo's healing is overpowered, but he's really one of the few exceptions.
Perma cc from who? Havnt had any issues
Zac and alistar.
Mode has too much RNG now, enjoying it way less
They keep saying that being able to choose your build hurts replayability. So why can we choose our builds in summoners rift? The most replaysble game mode.of all time?
The problem si that they made this so rng it feels awful. Pick a champ, dont get good setup. Welp your skill doennt matter. You'll get one shot and wont deal damage. What riot doesnt understand is that skill expression IS the fun of league and removing it doesnt make it more fun it Just makes the gamemode bland. They alredy did the same error with nexus blitz and its tiring to see the same misstake
Yeah it feels really bad to get a series of bad options to pick from, sometimes it’s just easier to afk and alt tab.
Make it permanent mode you cowards
High stakes rounds need to go. If you're not power spiking at the right moment it's absolutely crushing to lose that one.
Tbf, these rounds are the only good equalizer to save early game champs from later hyperscalers (who are already overpowered) rn. Deleting them would push Rek'Sai/Fizz/Ekko et al. even lower than they already are
Not sure why tanks and bruisers weren’t placed at the top for the biggest problem in the mode…alongside all this healing, regardless of the grievous wounds change. Arena is not worth playing until those are looked at.
Am I the only one who thinks Jhin is single handedly ruining the mode? Like they scrapped most of the champ additions and kept the most annoying ones? Just remove them completely at that point
still doesnt make sense to me that last arena was played primarily by ranked players according to riot --> enough of these ranked players seemed to play the mode to make it popular enough to be brought back --> its now catered to casuals? casuals have normals, flex, aram, EVERY rotating gamemode whether its urf or a pve mode, but ranked players get to play only ranked for years and thats ok i guess? makes even less sense that they made it so rng casual friendly but are still adding ranks
I bet more casuals would’ve played the last mode if they removed the visible rank.
No it’s not ok. ALL players have been begging for a different permanent map for years. They took away Dominion and TT and nothing has replaced them. Even casuals want an additional permanent game mode/map. Arena is good fun but it’s definitely not catered to casuals. Riot might say it is but it’s the most sweaty mode ever.
I just wish it wasnt 1 ban per team. Feels so shit to play alone and being unable to do my usual ban.
> In the short term, this may be frustrating, but we have enough learnings from TFT and other games that we feel confident in this approach directionally. What does this even mean?
That frustration is an important emotion in maintaining engagement. It's also just a generally important part of video games being fun. It makes the highs significantly higher. See: Dark Souls
Oh, okay, I guess I get it. Pretty interesting comparison though. The frustration in Dark Souls is always paired with the thought that YOU could have played it better. It's a bit of a cheesy term maybe, but you could call it "meaningful". That's not the case in Arena, where it's just a matter of luck. You could argue that the frustration you feel in Arena is of a different nature, because the message there is that your turn to have fun has been delayed. That's not really a "meaningful" form of frustration. Hope that makes sense. In any case, thanks for engaging, I understand why I don't like the new Arena better now.
"Directionally" means "this is the right _kind_ of thing to do, even if the exact thing we're doing is not right." They're saying that they feel confident in the overall design philosophy, but aren't sure they've implemented it correctly yet.
I hope they come to their senses and finally get rid of the stage hazards in general. All they do is disrupt gameplay - I’ve never loaded into a single round and seen ANY of the stage hazards and thought “YES! I’m so excited to play with this”. They range from mildly annoying to actively making the game unfun, and it just adds so many “feels bad” moments.
I respectfully disagree. While I think some stage hazards like jhin and thresh feel random and unfair, others like sett, pyke, and lux are predictable hazards players can play around, providing a new win condition and forcing players to approach the round from a different angle. At least for me, winning and losing due to those hazards made some of my favorite moments in the mode.
In my opinion, they are worse than they are better, for the fun and health of arena. Before a round starts, I already have to account for up to 4 different augments per champ, plus their items (including Prismatics), stat changes, juices, and the extra round bonuses (free Reroll and 15 HP or lose 40HP on loss)… and then I get about 3 seconds when the round loads in to craft a coherent plan based on what the hazard is. I don’t think it makes for good gameplay to have so many factors out of your control that affect how a matchup will go. The fact that they don’t even really have a cooldown period is just…. honestly so stupid.
Sett and Lux are nice to play around. Pyke can be irritating but also create some good outplays. Thresh and Jhin make both winning and losing feel out of my control at times.
The only one I don’t mind is Sett because he helps against super tanks and isn’t super awful to play around. All the others are pretty annoying.
I like Sett, sometimes he's the only thing that does damage to the beefy tank abusers.
I think the 168 champions challenge is tough but would totally be an awesome one to keep as a separate challenge. Perhaps an "Arena Master" and "Arena God" distinction for the 60/168 champions.
I have nothing to add to this thread but if anyone reads this comment; If you get the augment "Marksmage" on Elise, pick it, its a free win. My teammate picked it and finished the game with it doing around 37k damage by the end of the game.
Don’t know if this is a bug, but the augment where when you die you have three seconds to get a takedown or die, if you are Trynd and ult after the augment activates you will still die after three seconds while your ult is still running.
Please give a special reward to those who win with every champion, something cosmetic, like icon or whatever.
There is the 'Arena God' title
I just wish the AP prismatic items felt better or just wern't so bad. i see the same 6 mage based Prismatic items every game and only 1 of them actually feels good (voidgrub spawning one) the others all feel very lackluster or just not good that it feels better to just sell the prismatic and buy a legendary item, not like it means much since mages just dont feel good in the mode just like the last 2 iterations of the mode.
Mages are good they just take more skill to play and therefore get run over if you don't know how to play them well. And there's great mage prismatics what do you even mean... cruelty, runecarver, detonation orb, reality fracture, and everfrost are all strong items that most mages can get use out of.
So of the 16 prismatic items that show up for mages, 5 are useful. Got it.
And you see up to 9 of them on first pick yeah pretty good chance of hitting one. Also that wasn't comprehensive just off the top of my head there's plenty of other great options like uhh the locket that's fucking insane like 200+ AP, moonflair is great, sanguine thingy, night harvester how many do I need to name? Seems like skill issue or super low roll
Not every mage can use every item, the reroll locket feels like ass until you hit that godly roll and it may be too late, the moon fair blade is only really useful on the ap fighters. Not sure what the sanguine thing even is. I'm talking for mages, the prismatic items are just too niche to work with most mages where only 1 or 2 options are actually good for them. Then they threw in a bunch of the generalist ones because riot didn't know what to do.
Remove Koi Pond. It’s the worst map in gaming history. How are they not aware of how shitty it is? They mentioned it in the notes but aren’t doing anything about it. Remove it. There’s zero fun. There’s not a single person who enjoys that map.
It has highs when you get skillshot teams taking potshots at each other. The other small map with the one healing flower in the middle needed to die in a fire two arenas ago though.
Nerf the “Wake” augments, especially Spellwake plz.