I think it’s because playins were seeded as groups, so all the matches happen within the group and the goal is just to qualify out of the group itself.
Gameplay wise they’re also using TL for practice. I don’t think JKL + MEIKO have to laneswap against TL’s kalista reneta. They’re just testing out concept they’ll utilize with GENG.
So you are saying that TES is testing laneswap to utilize it agastin GENG where Geng wekast point is early bot lanning and TES strongest is early bot laning, sounds logical.
So you recognize that there is a gap in the skill of their bot lanes, and also recognize that lane swaps are done to sidestep bad botlane matchups....But are just completely incapable of recognizing that GENG might be the ones wanting to laneswap and that TES would want to have practice in case they do that.
You're trying to mock them while highlighting why they are probably correct lmao.
The 1v1 he did vs TF where he held his ult for next game was such a bad move. He had the first play, he had everything including ult, which he didnt use, and he died
yeah i mean this was unacceptable from a pro. I was mindblown that in a lane swap with no opponent at the start, he had like 13 cs at 5 min while JKL had like 30
And in the first game where he fought a lvl 6 Lucian as a lvl 5 Kalista with no summs.. like, he deserves critique for bad decision making and not even being able to CS.
that was on corejj. if you saw what happened he was basing and someone pinged to cheese in the bush which was 99% core because he was walking to that bush while yeon was basing. just a really stupid play because they shouldve known that they would swap back. if they dont let yeon base there they are fucked.
It’s obvious Yeon has massive nerve issues. His skill greatly reduces when he is on a big stage. He was looking way better this split, one of the best adcs and now he looks like the guy we were all memeing on and saying liquid needed to change at the end of last worlds.
Being one of the best in weaker competition doesn’t mean you are able to compete as a world class adc.
In The past we had :
from eu :
forgiven, rekkless , zven, now we have hans, carzzy, maybe in The future Noah
NA: sneaky, doublelift.
Ou yeah and FBI was solid too
There are not many adcs who can keep up with East competition in west
NA adcs generally aren’t unforgivably bad. It’s been one of the stronger roles for the region over the years. But Yeon def plays noticeably worse when under pressure, so I don’t think it’s simply a being super outclassed thing, I mean he is, but I genuinely think he just blanked and couldn’t play for shit. That one game where he just straight up forget how to cs seems like proof to me.
True but this is about Yeon not last hitting... opponents skill doesn't matter. He was down by CS by way too much with no distractions. It has to be nerves.
Iirc I've not seen a worse jhin game in the last 8 years in an international tournament. Like I expected NA to be bad but what was that. It was like they were trying to lose that game ASAP.
My adc's when i play support zoning off the enemies from the waves only to find my adc is down 30 cs, i guess i shouldn't be upset their just LCS caliber!
While I do think Yeon underperformed today, I’m surprised people aren’t talking about this more. We go into internationals knowing we’re playing people who are better. And instead of praising how good the enemy is, we still spend the whole time flaming. It’s just exhausting haha. I don’t watch any LPL or LCK, but damn i get why everyone hypes up JKL
Honestly, TL winning LCS was already way above my expectations. Hell, even making MSI would have been above my expectations. So at this point, I don't even care. They're punching way above their weight. I just want to see them improve for Worlds.
For real
The concept that better players force mistakes is apparently completely alien to people, they react like 'obviously he should have just not made this mistake duh'
It's always 'we're so bad' and never 'they're so good' and it's an exhausting mindset that's so endemic to online gaming
I've been following pro-play since the end of season 1, and EVERY YEAR, I mean LITERALLY EVERY YEAR, hell, every international tournament, I see countless versions of this comment : "Wow, I can't believe \*NA team\* played so poorly against \*EU/KR/CN team\* ! They made so many unusual mistakes that they wouldn't make against \*much weaker NA team\*, too bad they're clearly tired/tilted/playing much worse than usual,..."
It's like wondering why you look better as a Gold player when playing against a Bronze player than against a Diamond player. And trust me, I've also heard a lot of gold players complaining about how many "unusual mistakes" they were suddenly making against diamond laners, and how it was an unlucky fluke.
The mistakes were always there, you just started playing against someone who exploited them.
Add nerves/mental state on top of that and you get these kinds of results
Amen man, going through post-game threads is exhausting, especially when you get to the party early and just see a bunch of doomer smoothbrain takes. I guess moral of the story is to stay out of these threads till the dust settles.
That would check out if not for the fact that alot of these errors are unforced. You can argue that the mental pressure of playing against these eastern players results in these mistakes but that is probably exactly why people are mad, why are the NA players so mentally weak. Like, there is no reason yeon should be getting 14/25 cs in a laneswap ever
Of course pressure causes weaker players to make mistakes. Look at tennis, even players ranked 200 can hit 100 balls out of 100 perfectly in practice and have good results against similar skills. Still when they stand in front of Novak Djokovic they are going to hit 5 or 10 into the net, a seemingly dumb mistake.
> You can argue that the mental pressure of playing against these eastern players results in these mistakes but that is probably exactly why people are mad, why are the NA players so mentally weak.
Bro players have said they literally wouldn't make a move because they know it'll backfire, especially if they tried in scrim and got dunked.
If you actually believe that you're not better than these players, how would you expect to outplay them?
And JKL actually threw a couple of bounties for free on 2 occasions at least, so it's not like JKL was at the top of his game the whole time. He was clean in fights, but he was really careless.
You're right about this concept overall. Specifically for the botched 2v2 on Kalista Renata that wasn't TES forcing a mistake. TL's bot lane hopped out to fight when none of them had level 6 and Lucian did. That was probably Core's call but that is on him and not TES forcing it.
You're generally right,
But opting into a fight with lvl6 Lucian while you're lvl5 Kalista with no sum, or missing CS in an empty lane to the point you're down 20 farm isn't "better players forcing mistakes".
JKL is cracked but Yeon was also just straight up bad today.
To be fair JKL hasn't been tested yet. NOAH isn't even proven internationally... maybe him and Yeon has the same problem. Okay Noah is pretty much a rookie but Yeon again? Swapped 2v1 lane and he missed half his cs with no opponent in lane... that has to be nerves, not skill obviously since gold players usually last hits better.
I actually think the latter is complete bullshit. Do you for a single second believe a player like Yeon does not respect Jackeylove?
He is just not as good as him.
Well, the majority of people calling NA dogshit I vager is EU fans. Obviously they'd rather shit on NA instead of praising the other side any day of the week.
This goes for LPL and LCK as well, where X fans are cringe when they lose, but then they do the exact same thing when they win. It's just a circlejerk of haters wanting to one up
not saying its right, but its because we are shown that yeon isnt even on the same plane of existence as jackeylove, like hes not just gapped but he doesnt even look like a pro compared to jackeylove. and while jackeylove is in fantastic form and people should be praising him, is it really worth praising that much vs yeon? like i wont praise a masters adc for clowning on a diamond adc thats just to be expected
That's a choice you are making. You could also say "man, this Jackeylove guy must be really good to make a top ADC player from a major region look like an absolute fool".
I think the weirdest thing about the community is that they cannot take a series just for what it is. There always needs to be someone giga griefing, inting, disrespecting the competition/his teammates yada yada.
Not like every series has a winner or a loser and we knew that beforehand.
> we still spend the whole time flaming. It's just exhausting haha.
preach it brother. its disappointing how much discussion about these events boils down to flame. im actually really excited for PSG and hope they get at least one more upset before elimination, but i also know that if they do the pmt thread will be nothing but vitriol for whoever their opponent was. teams can't be good without other teams being bad i guess.
For real. I swear to god like 75% of the people who watch LCS games in international tournaments (even “fans”) are hate watching it. I honestly don’t understand. Like did I realistically think TL would beat TES? No. Did I think we had a chance? Hell yes.
And that's why there's such an unhealthy relationship between the fans/redditors and NA teams. The discussion pre game is absolute delusion, you can't even talk about realistic possibilities and discuss what would constitute a good performance. It's all about "Yappa practicing Chinese", "EU and NA are both shit so don't be a party pooper", "TES looked shaky" etc. And when the inevitable loss comes, it was never serious. It was ironic, goofing around, of course they were never going to win.
So it's expectations of winning (somehow) and absolutely losing at the same time. The teams get the pressure of high expectations *and* the weight of fans not trusting them. All the while those annoyed by the fake discussions and backing down from talking points get to revel in the inevitable disappointment.
Get real with the team's weaknesses and strengths and own up to the facts when there's no way these can be spun into a win. And then maybe you can start discussing what is a good result given those shortcomings. And the NA teams can finally get one weight off their backs.
Because literally every single split people somehow forget that we stand absolutely no chance against Eastern teams because our players are just worse. You get flamed in any TL thread if you mention that Apa and Yeon are huge liabilities internationally and as long as they are both on the team there's no chance to compete.
That's because you're just so brave for saying that and people don't respect your bravery. Shame on people for trying to be optimistic! Go have a field day with the rest of the 500 comments on this thread shitting on them
Edit: also this a whole ass lie. If you at literally any point the entire split except for immediately after the finals said yeon and APA are liabilities, you would be upvoted and parroting the general public opinion. The worst anyone would say to you is to give them more time
Yeah, especially the TL subreddit was not a fun place to be as an APA and Yeon believer since… well, last year and until the finals. We were the minority lmfao.
Sure Jackeylove is leagues ahead but being greedy when 1v2, running it down in the top play of game 1, and somehow missing cs in an empty lane is hardly up to pro standards, let’s be real here.
His mistakes were so basic though, like extremely poor farming or walking up 1v2 for no reason and dying. Doesn't even matter who he's against if he's playing like that.
But that’s the thing, theses are the creme de la creme of League teams. Most of the players here are gonna be world class.
Eastern botlanes in this tournament :
JKL/Meiko
Elk/ON
Guma/Keria
Peyz/Lehends
The worst of those 4 are probably GenG’s, but they are still gonna shit and mop the floor with any Western botlanes.
If you want to compete with these teams, you need to atleast go even, if not ahead.
How can you not blame Yeon? Did you see that fight they tried to take top lane where JKL was level 6, full hp, just reset and had noonquiver, and Yeon was level 5 with no items and like 70% hp?
They forced that fight. Literally a gold botlane could’ve figured out you don’t win that. That was embarrassing for the whole region seeing them have no clue about the most basic situation.
I don't know what happened to the game, but bot diff is *too* conspicuous this patch/season.
Western bot lanes were *usually* able to survive stuff like Viper, GALA, Elk, Guma, and Ruler and come out relatively even (if not slightly behind) without outside interference. It was mostly in team fights/skirmishes that the difference was felt.
So far in this tournament, it seems like the worse bot lane in a given game are just walking sacks of gold for the better pair to collect (see TES vs. FNC/TL, T1 vs. FQ).
Elk and ON have gotten better since last season, and Jackeylove finally has a good support. NA also has worse adcs than before. Doublelift, WildTurtle, and Sneaky are gone.
People blasted Noah for being liability, people are blasting Yeon for being a liability (although as people point out he did make clear mistakes - but that's a sign, right, of not being able to withstand the mental pressure. Even Faker was shaking/not playing like himself in that semifinals series vs G9 in 2019).
Playing against someone as dominant and crazy as JKL, especially now he's paired with a support like Meiko, is not being praised enough and based on the flame you'd think Noah/Yeon got battered by some chumps or something.
TES JKL in 2021 MSC vs GenG drew 5 ADC bans in the third game. That was a GenG who even had Ruler at the time. JKL can and has assblasted many elite ADCs, and while it's expected (wanting to see the team you support doing better) it's not the humiliation or shame people make it out to be.
breh, the dude walk up 1v2 and died, it wasn't even for a canon. When JKL support goes mid to help, JKL play back, when CoreJJ goes mid to help, Yeon walks up and die. It's basic league knowledge. What about the weird brush camp lvl 5 kalista vs lvl 6 lucian???
Based. TL 3-2 FNC then 3-2 TES in the rematch, 3-1 BLG in the losers bracket after they lost to T1 Jhin-Yuumi, 3-0 GenG who just to T1 in the new record 14:49 and have since completely mental boomed, and then 2-3 T1 in the finals, but game five is won with an elder flip / base race. It breaks all viewing records including Worlds. EU fans still thinks they're the better region.
This isn't just Copium or Hopium, this is sm advanced formula, cooked up by one whose brain is fucked from years of NA getting fisted at every single international tournament.
And some of them have the audacity to say shit like "NA needs to be knocked down from its high horse" (No TL pun intended)
High horse?? We've been knocked down, kicked, and beaten for the better part of a decade by all major regions, including LEC. The wins are rare, but when they appear, we will fucking lord them over EU fans - as is our right. NRG beating G2 was the uncovering of a renewable hopium source that will keep us going for another 10 years. We have no "good old days" to wistfully pine for. We have no great heights we've fallen from. We are used to failure; thus we shall savor success, and shout it from the rooftops. Meanwhile LEC can keep huffing the fumes of the past. Hate to break it to you, but 2019 G2 is not coming back.
Seeth more.
TL could've gone 2-3 where the game quality looked like T1-GenG in their recent finals and an EU bro would've been "I can't believe you got the luckiest draw and can't even close it out. I remember when \*MY\* region won MSI, it wasn't that long ago either"
No one in their right mind would flame TL for taking TES to 5 games (tripling the number of wins NA has gotten against eastern teams in the past year). This is next level shadowboxing.
I see you a lot around here fanning the EU vs NA flames (obviously taking the NA side), but the comments were no more mean-spirited than any other comments made during NA hours or whenever EU gets smashed. This "talking shit whenever NA gets one on EU and then playing the victim card whenever the opposite happens" shtick is pathetic, both regions suck and both are allowed to shit talk each other without all that woe is me bs.
Impact indirectly just said he wants to flame but he's holding back lol.
You cannot convince me APA/YEON are world class players. They are fine domestically but the gap is huge between them and LCK/LPL.
Impact was terrible today too, he had so many random deaths for no reason and mechanical misplays. Only corejj looked aight and even he had the 2v2 top lane in the first game where he and yeon ran it down
[This](https://www.youtube.com/live/FCXiZKio9c8?si=wQ-xnX8D8bOde_9x&t=9169) play by impact is literal wintrade levels of bad. Like nothing he did there made any sense. Did not ult, stopped aa'ing as one of the highest aa dps champs in the game, kited away from his teammate coming to help, can't run away anyway because he is fighting tf point blank. Gave away a free kill and his team can't fight anymore because they don't have rumble ult.
He was still the only one setting up kills even with all of his inting in both games one and two like when he caught tian with a hook in bottom side, his Nami game was atrocious too. Now that I think about it, even core was bad, literally everyone was bad, and I’m sad
I want to know what you're smoking if you think Impact played bad this series.
That 2v2 top side was Corejj call 100% lol, such a dumb call that probably just works or at least they don't get killed in LCS
Impact's game 1 and 2 were so bad, game 1 i'd attribute it to the rest of the team completely rolling over, its hard to do anything as Ksante, but game 2, he facechecked grubs top side against 2 people and died for fun and then proceeded to get completely blasted in lane because of that, and in midlane he tried to walk through mid through 3 people to get to his turret, lost his flash, and died anyways. game 3 he was pretty good, but the blast cone into 3 people into another flash death was bad too. Idk how you think he didn't play bad, nobody on TL played good
You gonna watch his rumble game especially mega egregious int deaths at 16 and 18 mins and tell me he played well? You really gonna tell me this wasn't one of the worst Rumble games at an international tourney you're ever seen?
You guys are on one haha
Did you even read the interview? That's not the impression I got at all. He spent a lot of time talking about lane swaps and not being proactive in map play compared to TES.
The entire team is gapped including impact lol. It’s not only mid/bot holding them back. None of them are world class players which is why they’re in the LCS
More like "what's the point of flaming?"
Do we actually believe Impact thought that team was capable of winning MSI? Or any NA team? Or any combination of 5 NA players?
Why flame your teammates when it serves no purpose. Everyone knows they're not good enough for LPL/LCK already.
They aren't. They're rookies. Lmao. This was APA's first full split, he got subbed in halfway for haeri last year, and yeon's second on the main team. Who said they were world class anything?
APA wasn't even that bad lol. He played to scale, fought okayish and just got team diffed. Sure his asol ults weren't great, but it's not like they were allowed a clean front to back fight either.
Yep he got solo bolo'd by the farming ornn. Shouldn't've happened. I won't say his shit didn't stink, only that he didn't do *that* poorly, and did something approximating his job
Yes, Impact is a very competitive person. He's very critical and willing to call people out. It's not that he's toxic but he expects a certain standard to be upheld. It's why he's been at the top of his region for such a long time.
Impact is usually a world class player but he was a dud today. Honestly I don't think NA has any world class players on an individual level at this point. Maybe Jojo. No one on FLY looked good either.
With all due respect to Impact but like, his inting Rumble was a big reason the Asol and Smolder never made it to the lategame. He had a lot of problems with Rumble in the LCS this split too. Against FLY the first time, he was addicted to overgrouping without teleport and dropping 2k+ gold of free CS.
TL can pick whatever ADCs and they’d still lose. Gumayusi is spamming Jhin in soloQ, I bet TL had a scrim block against T1 and got smashed. Jhin is a trash champ until T1 win with it, then Reddit will make a 180 lol. Same shit with Lethality Kalista, Lucian/Nami during LCS hours. All result-based analyst. Still can’t believe NA analyst/casters/streamers and Reddit flamed LCS teams for sticking with Lucian/Nami. Now NA teams are perma behind during draft.
also you hear this prevailing thing of "the west isn't good enough to win with meta, they should try more unusual picks" - TL picks something unusual "lmao, imagine picking this dogshit non-meta champ"
(specifically for game 3) There is a big difference between "let's pick an offmeta, thought out teamcomp/champ" and "first rotation lethality Jhin in a tank top + bruiser mobile junglers meta with a Lucian already locked in and multiple viable support pairings available". Going Twitch, Tristana, maybe even Sivir would have been better: better waveclear, tankbusting/pushing power and/or teamfights.
Instead TL went with immobile carries, single target oriented pick CC into very safe and easy to pilot poke/skirmish comp with powerful defwnsive tools to avoid/neutralize attempts at picks, then fumbled in fundamentals (Uncontested Jhin 20 CS to Lucian 40 CS and a goddamn K'sante in a laneswap at 20 CS). APA getting solokilled by Ornn in game 2, burning flash for 1/2 second of Q on enemy Xin when TES was pushing tier 1 mid like he genuinepy disn't think Xin would walk forward with 3 teammates versus one Aurelion. Double dragon in game 2 for absolutely 0 pressure early and free scaling and lane advantage for the alreasy known to be better team - that can work in soloqueue or against passive teams, but Asia, especially LPL is known for aggression.
TES played well, and trying an offmeta pick has merit ro upset the plans of the better team, but the pick has to be planned and thought out. Jhin coild have worked as last rotation pick into a squishy and/or slow teamcomp, not as an essentially blindpick.
Jhin is only ever viable into 5 squishy champs that builds full dmg and he can hit and run tactics.
The moment there's one remotely tanky thing in front of him (soloq), he is the msot useless thing.
He also sucks in laning these days.
Picking him, honestly, you could pick almost any other champ in the game and be more useful
Yeah APA's champ pool is a bit of an issue, but APA actually performed alright in Games 2 and 3.
Poor Yeon just looked dizzy all series. JackeyLove is an ADC you cannot give free kills to.
I do think there are a lot of reasons TL lost, but Yeon was definitely the worst performer.
I hope they can bounce back in Loser's Bracket. I would hate to see them get 3-0'd again.
Yeah, but it's not like that was supposed to even be really contentious.
I'm a big Creme enjoyer but he definitely isn't Knight or Chovy or whoever that will crush a worse player so hard they compress into a singular point. And Impact is (supposed to be) a stable top laner able to keep up even with the best players in the world (which he definitely wasn't today). And it's pretty hard to jungle-gap someone in pro play the same way you can as a laner unless you're literally sitting in your opponent's jungle with Olaf or whatever the whole game.
JackeyLove (and Meiko) meanwhile is exactly the kind of a laner that will crush worse players, and Yeon, despite looking quite good in playoffs definitely isn't a world class player, far from it. We saw how hard FNC's bot lane got clobbered, and I'd take Noah over Yeon any day of the week, and Jun easily over current CoreJJ form as well.
It's so unfortunate because he gets so much praise for being a scrim god even internationally when TL does their bootcamps. I thought he squashed his stage nerves during LCS playoffs but I guess not. I feel like since 2021 theres always a 50/50 chance a promoted native academy/challengers player chokes internationally: danny, busio, yeon choke while jojopyun, massu, apa, palafox don't. Idk about the other regions (i might be mistaken) but it seems unusually high for NA specifically
I legit don't even think APA played poorly enough to flame him for it. Creme on the other hand made corki's damage look completely broken. Deleting players with a usually more sustain dps champion.
That's just the skill gap lmao. If you're a LPL enjoyer you would know that Creme is actually known for having a pretty questionable corki and frequently runs it down with package. TES was just that much better in every aspect they could look good on their bad picks.
Is the same in soloq and same for any team game, what is flaming teammates going to do other than making it worse?
Cant expect LCS to suddenly just level up to Eastern standards, ther are short-term n long-term goals, rn they need to figure out how to work-around their flaws, eventually they want to eliminate them
There is no eliminating them. The NA scene is on life support in terms of dedicated youth to grind and want to be pro. Too many other games with better opportunities for NA youth to try for. Even EU is struggling to find new blood that can compete internationally. League is in the hands of the East, and it will stay that way indefinitely. Unless somehow the LPL collapses due to their government's overbearing reach and the LCK just tanks economically
I dont even care NA shits the bed at international events, nothing will change but LCS was much more fun to watch this split with high kills and azir disabled. This MSI is boring af to watch.
I mean quite simple. If you are a fan of your own region and it gets completely stomped and you dont really care about others even if they are a lot better it wont be exciting or interesting to watch no?
Like ofc I know when CN plays KR its objectively better and more fun but it is not for me. When west gets eliminated I just dont watch any games anymore. Not that they are bad I just dont find it interesting in the slightest.
"TL Impact admits Top Esports was the better team, but refused to flame his teammates". Funny how this also applies to how you can avoid bans in league.
Maybe I'm just Ina mood rn but these comments (most of them) show exactly the kind of immaturity Impact should be praised for outgrowing here.
NA is currently like 2-41 against LCK/LPL in the last 2 years.....so to expect TL to best TES is just really unrealistic... new format also heavily lowers the chances of random upsets.
Old format would've had teams playing multiple opponents in bo1 in the same day, so if you (as a LCK/LPL team) focused on beating better teams and overlooked weaker regions and took a random L here and there it would've made a lot more sense....compared to this year where the ONLY opponent TES has to prepare for on the day was TL.
Like it sucks NA is so weak, but I don't think it's realistic to even expect one our teams to suddenly become a contender for being one of the top 5 teams in the world....and that's what beating TES here would basically imply.
It's not a match-up where they really had a chance. Every position was fundamentally gapped, even including coaching staff, and support personal in the org...
Given everything, it seems ALOT more reasonable to say "yeah, we were outclassed. No reason to flame them for doing their best and and failing." Than to just rant about how 'emberassing' it is to lose a match up they had zero chance of realistically winning.... idk again maybe I'm just Ina mood rn or something.
TL isn't at the level to be a top 3 team in LPL, so I don't feel shocked TES dominated. I'm actually just glad TL atleast went out there and tried stuff and played scrappy aggressive gameplay. Yeah basically every play and skirmish ended in TES favor. But I honestly 100% prefer that to the classic move of NA teams going FULL standard scaling comps against LCK/LPL and just losing slowly without ever even attempting to make a proactive play. Look back at some TSM international games if you wanna see what I mean here.
They were outclassed and TES took it serious. Simple as that. Hopefully we get the G2 TES matchup and see if the gap is really that big
If we are to assume last year's format, G2 can't ever play against TES unless they beat either T1 or BLG, which really sucks.
Nah if TES lose next round and G2 lose then win they play in LR2
oh true i missed the part where losers r1 winners swap
Kinda goofy that didn't happen in play-ins, but at least they did it right for the main event. I was confused about that too, since its inconsistent.
I think it’s because playins were seeded as groups, so all the matches happen within the group and the goal is just to qualify out of the group itself.
yeah but no one cares about playins at least. riot never learns to fool proof something until they get flamed enough lol
If you watch anything about TES you would know the game two draft means they’re absolutely trolling and practicing new comp.
This is gonna be a repeat of last year. “TES is the weakest team, G2 can beat them” cause of their playin form.
I ment gameplay yea obviously the picks are trolling but they played a disciplined game
Gameplay wise they’re also using TL for practice. I don’t think JKL + MEIKO have to laneswap against TL’s kalista reneta. They’re just testing out concept they’ll utilize with GENG.
So you are saying that TES is testing laneswap to utilize it agastin GENG where Geng wekast point is early bot lanning and TES strongest is early bot laning, sounds logical.
So you recognize that there is a gap in the skill of their bot lanes, and also recognize that lane swaps are done to sidestep bad botlane matchups....But are just completely incapable of recognizing that GENG might be the ones wanting to laneswap and that TES would want to have practice in case they do that. You're trying to mock them while highlighting why they are probably correct lmao.
Currently doesn't look like they need it, with how peyz and legends are faring against Noah and jun
TES didn't take it that seriously in game 3 (only saw this one). And from what I saw game 2 wasn't better.
the better team is a understatement, they aren't even in the same class.
not even in the same mode - TES is playing coop vs ai
Technically its not wrong. The guy that is 1st in the class while you are like 40 is obviously better than you
Not even in the same school
That Rumble game was almost wintrading levels of bad
The 1v1 he did vs TF where he held his ult for next game was such a bad move. He had the first play, he had everything including ult, which he didnt use, and he died
His equalizer into the wall instead of the actual jungle corridor turned a 3 for 0 into a 2 for 1.
Inspired would never
I don’t blame Yeon, yeah he played poorly but it’s JKL/Meiko one of the best bot lanes in the world.
I mean that's hardly relevant when he was missing CS in an empty lane
yeah i mean this was unacceptable from a pro. I was mindblown that in a lane swap with no opponent at the start, he had like 13 cs at 5 min while JKL had like 30
And in the first game where he fought a lvl 6 Lucian as a lvl 5 Kalista with no summs.. like, he deserves critique for bad decision making and not even being able to CS.
that was on corejj. if you saw what happened he was basing and someone pinged to cheese in the bush which was 99% core because he was walking to that bush while yeon was basing. just a really stupid play because they shouldve known that they would swap back. if they dont let yeon base there they are fucked.
Htf are we blaming yeon for that? Not to mention core missed every ability in thay fight. That was completely on corejj
korean import plot armor
Worlds champ armor. Let it wear off in another 5 years
It’s obvious Yeon has massive nerve issues. His skill greatly reduces when he is on a big stage. He was looking way better this split, one of the best adcs and now he looks like the guy we were all memeing on and saying liquid needed to change at the end of last worlds.
Being one of the best in weaker competition doesn’t mean you are able to compete as a world class adc. In The past we had : from eu : forgiven, rekkless , zven, now we have hans, carzzy, maybe in The future Noah NA: sneaky, doublelift. Ou yeah and FBI was solid too There are not many adcs who can keep up with East competition in west
NA adcs generally aren’t unforgivably bad. It’s been one of the stronger roles for the region over the years. But Yeon def plays noticeably worse when under pressure, so I don’t think it’s simply a being super outclassed thing, I mean he is, but I genuinely think he just blanked and couldn’t play for shit. That one game where he just straight up forget how to cs seems like proof to me.
True but this is about Yeon not last hitting... opponents skill doesn't matter. He was down by CS by way too much with no distractions. It has to be nerves.
Iirc I've not seen a worse jhin game in the last 8 years in an international tournament. Like I expected NA to be bad but what was that. It was like they were trying to lose that game ASAP.
My adc's when i play support zoning off the enemies from the waves only to find my adc is down 30 cs, i guess i shouldn't be upset their just LCS caliber!
He was already completely mental boomed by then probably.
While I do think Yeon underperformed today, I’m surprised people aren’t talking about this more. We go into internationals knowing we’re playing people who are better. And instead of praising how good the enemy is, we still spend the whole time flaming. It’s just exhausting haha. I don’t watch any LPL or LCK, but damn i get why everyone hypes up JKL
Honestly, TL winning LCS was already way above my expectations. Hell, even making MSI would have been above my expectations. So at this point, I don't even care. They're punching way above their weight. I just want to see them improve for Worlds.
For real The concept that better players force mistakes is apparently completely alien to people, they react like 'obviously he should have just not made this mistake duh' It's always 'we're so bad' and never 'they're so good' and it's an exhausting mindset that's so endemic to online gaming
I've been following pro-play since the end of season 1, and EVERY YEAR, I mean LITERALLY EVERY YEAR, hell, every international tournament, I see countless versions of this comment : "Wow, I can't believe \*NA team\* played so poorly against \*EU/KR/CN team\* ! They made so many unusual mistakes that they wouldn't make against \*much weaker NA team\*, too bad they're clearly tired/tilted/playing much worse than usual,..." It's like wondering why you look better as a Gold player when playing against a Bronze player than against a Diamond player. And trust me, I've also heard a lot of gold players complaining about how many "unusual mistakes" they were suddenly making against diamond laners, and how it was an unlucky fluke. The mistakes were always there, you just started playing against someone who exploited them. Add nerves/mental state on top of that and you get these kinds of results
Amen man, going through post-game threads is exhausting, especially when you get to the party early and just see a bunch of doomer smoothbrain takes. I guess moral of the story is to stay out of these threads till the dust settles.
That would check out if not for the fact that alot of these errors are unforced. You can argue that the mental pressure of playing against these eastern players results in these mistakes but that is probably exactly why people are mad, why are the NA players so mentally weak. Like, there is no reason yeon should be getting 14/25 cs in a laneswap ever
Of course pressure causes weaker players to make mistakes. Look at tennis, even players ranked 200 can hit 100 balls out of 100 perfectly in practice and have good results against similar skills. Still when they stand in front of Novak Djokovic they are going to hit 5 or 10 into the net, a seemingly dumb mistake.
> You can argue that the mental pressure of playing against these eastern players results in these mistakes but that is probably exactly why people are mad, why are the NA players so mentally weak. Bro players have said they literally wouldn't make a move because they know it'll backfire, especially if they tried in scrim and got dunked. If you actually believe that you're not better than these players, how would you expect to outplay them?
And JKL actually threw a couple of bounties for free on 2 occasions at least, so it's not like JKL was at the top of his game the whole time. He was clean in fights, but he was really careless.
You're right about this concept overall. Specifically for the botched 2v2 on Kalista Renata that wasn't TES forcing a mistake. TL's bot lane hopped out to fight when none of them had level 6 and Lucian did. That was probably Core's call but that is on him and not TES forcing it.
You're generally right, But opting into a fight with lvl6 Lucian while you're lvl5 Kalista with no sum, or missing CS in an empty lane to the point you're down 20 farm isn't "better players forcing mistakes". JKL is cracked but Yeon was also just straight up bad today.
To be fair JKL hasn't been tested yet. NOAH isn't even proven internationally... maybe him and Yeon has the same problem. Okay Noah is pretty much a rookie but Yeon again? Swapped 2v1 lane and he missed half his cs with no opponent in lane... that has to be nerves, not skill obviously since gold players usually last hits better.
Because you can clearly see, most of the mistakes are basic mistakes/lack of respect.
I actually think the latter is complete bullshit. Do you for a single second believe a player like Yeon does not respect Jackeylove? He is just not as good as him.
Well, the majority of people calling NA dogshit I vager is EU fans. Obviously they'd rather shit on NA instead of praising the other side any day of the week. This goes for LPL and LCK as well, where X fans are cringe when they lose, but then they do the exact same thing when they win. It's just a circlejerk of haters wanting to one up
not saying its right, but its because we are shown that yeon isnt even on the same plane of existence as jackeylove, like hes not just gapped but he doesnt even look like a pro compared to jackeylove. and while jackeylove is in fantastic form and people should be praising him, is it really worth praising that much vs yeon? like i wont praise a masters adc for clowning on a diamond adc thats just to be expected
That's a choice you are making. You could also say "man, this Jackeylove guy must be really good to make a top ADC player from a major region look like an absolute fool".
I think the weirdest thing about the community is that they cannot take a series just for what it is. There always needs to be someone giga griefing, inting, disrespecting the competition/his teammates yada yada. Not like every series has a winner or a loser and we knew that beforehand.
> we still spend the whole time flaming. It's just exhausting haha. preach it brother. its disappointing how much discussion about these events boils down to flame. im actually really excited for PSG and hope they get at least one more upset before elimination, but i also know that if they do the pmt thread will be nothing but vitriol for whoever their opponent was. teams can't be good without other teams being bad i guess.
For real. I swear to god like 75% of the people who watch LCS games in international tournaments (even “fans”) are hate watching it. I honestly don’t understand. Like did I realistically think TL would beat TES? No. Did I think we had a chance? Hell yes.
And that's why there's such an unhealthy relationship between the fans/redditors and NA teams. The discussion pre game is absolute delusion, you can't even talk about realistic possibilities and discuss what would constitute a good performance. It's all about "Yappa practicing Chinese", "EU and NA are both shit so don't be a party pooper", "TES looked shaky" etc. And when the inevitable loss comes, it was never serious. It was ironic, goofing around, of course they were never going to win. So it's expectations of winning (somehow) and absolutely losing at the same time. The teams get the pressure of high expectations *and* the weight of fans not trusting them. All the while those annoyed by the fake discussions and backing down from talking points get to revel in the inevitable disappointment. Get real with the team's weaknesses and strengths and own up to the facts when there's no way these can be spun into a win. And then maybe you can start discussing what is a good result given those shortcomings. And the NA teams can finally get one weight off their backs.
Because literally every single split people somehow forget that we stand absolutely no chance against Eastern teams because our players are just worse. You get flamed in any TL thread if you mention that Apa and Yeon are huge liabilities internationally and as long as they are both on the team there's no chance to compete.
That's because you're just so brave for saying that and people don't respect your bravery. Shame on people for trying to be optimistic! Go have a field day with the rest of the 500 comments on this thread shitting on them Edit: also this a whole ass lie. If you at literally any point the entire split except for immediately after the finals said yeon and APA are liabilities, you would be upvoted and parroting the general public opinion. The worst anyone would say to you is to give them more time
Yeah, especially the TL subreddit was not a fun place to be as an APA and Yeon believer since… well, last year and until the finals. We were the minority lmfao.
You can't watch those games and not blame Yeon
JackeyLove bullied Ruler (twice) and even made him cry in playoffs. Yeon performed as well as expected to anyone who actually bothered to watch TES.
Sure Jackeylove is leagues ahead but being greedy when 1v2, running it down in the top play of game 1, and somehow missing cs in an empty lane is hardly up to pro standards, let’s be real here.
His mistakes were so basic though, like extremely poor farming or walking up 1v2 for no reason and dying. Doesn't even matter who he's against if he's playing like that.
But that’s the thing, theses are the creme de la creme of League teams. Most of the players here are gonna be world class. Eastern botlanes in this tournament : JKL/Meiko Elk/ON Guma/Keria Peyz/Lehends The worst of those 4 are probably GenG’s, but they are still gonna shit and mop the floor with any Western botlanes. If you want to compete with these teams, you need to atleast go even, if not ahead.
How can you not blame Yeon? Did you see that fight they tried to take top lane where JKL was level 6, full hp, just reset and had noonquiver, and Yeon was level 5 with no items and like 70% hp? They forced that fight. Literally a gold botlane could’ve figured out you don’t win that. That was embarrassing for the whole region seeing them have no clue about the most basic situation.
The only blame there was Yeon not telling CoreJJ “No” since he was already backing and Core was the one pinging.
I don't know what happened to the game, but bot diff is *too* conspicuous this patch/season. Western bot lanes were *usually* able to survive stuff like Viper, GALA, Elk, Guma, and Ruler and come out relatively even (if not slightly behind) without outside interference. It was mostly in team fights/skirmishes that the difference was felt. So far in this tournament, it seems like the worse bot lane in a given game are just walking sacks of gold for the better pair to collect (see TES vs. FNC/TL, T1 vs. FQ).
Cuz it’s lethality varus into kalista and the change of map makes dive more easier. No more lulu zeri/aphe free farming.
Lethality kalista too. Her build this season does way more damage early on.
Yeon was also losing to himself in a completely open lane just by missing minions.
Elk and ON have gotten better since last season, and Jackeylove finally has a good support. NA also has worse adcs than before. Doublelift, WildTurtle, and Sneaky are gone.
Almost every TL win has been Bot diff even in LCS
Yeon reaction was also really poor, he was saving his flash for next split
Seems like a trend in the west for adc to save flashes for the next big event. 🌚
People blasted Noah for being liability, people are blasting Yeon for being a liability (although as people point out he did make clear mistakes - but that's a sign, right, of not being able to withstand the mental pressure. Even Faker was shaking/not playing like himself in that semifinals series vs G9 in 2019). Playing against someone as dominant and crazy as JKL, especially now he's paired with a support like Meiko, is not being praised enough and based on the flame you'd think Noah/Yeon got battered by some chumps or something. TES JKL in 2021 MSC vs GenG drew 5 ADC bans in the third game. That was a GenG who even had Ruler at the time. JKL can and has assblasted many elite ADCs, and while it's expected (wanting to see the team you support doing better) it's not the humiliation or shame people make it out to be.
breh, the dude walk up 1v2 and died, it wasn't even for a canon. When JKL support goes mid to help, JKL play back, when CoreJJ goes mid to help, Yeon walks up and die. It's basic league knowledge. What about the weird brush camp lvl 5 kalista vs lvl 6 lucian???
Based. TL 3-2 FNC then 3-2 TES in the rematch, 3-1 BLG in the losers bracket after they lost to T1 Jhin-Yuumi, 3-0 GenG who just to T1 in the new record 14:49 and have since completely mental boomed, and then 2-3 T1 in the finals, but game five is won with an elder flip / base race. It breaks all viewing records including Worlds. EU fans still thinks they're the better region.
I want whatever you're smoking in Liquid form, so that I may inject it into my veins.
You want whatever I’m smoking in Liquid form so that you can inject it into your veins and win MSI too
They need to drop Honda and roll out their own vape flavor. Team Liquid Vape or TLV. TLV! TLV! TLV! TLV!
This isn't just Copium or Hopium, this is sm advanced formula, cooked up by one whose brain is fucked from years of NA getting fisted at every single international tournament.
I don't do "light" drugs. Those are for losers ;)
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Finally another based NA enjoyer. These EU hiveminds really believe NA isn't winning MSI and Worlds XD
NAMEN BABY
EU is just missing the good hopium catchphrase, EUMEN just doesnt hit the same
It's NAMEN and EUPHORIA.
A reel eumen bean.
Waking up to seeing we lost is normal. However, the comments were REALLY mean-spirited this time around...
It's not just EU flaming, the performance was abysmal. Sometimes, in West vs. East, you get a few minutes of cope, nothing like that today
EUbros have been seething since NRG punked G2. Anything less than total NA domination would have been memed on.
Tbh, NRG getting one over on G2 was one thing. The icing on the cake was watching G2 go 1-6 in the Bo3 phase of Swiss.
And some of them have the audacity to say shit like "NA needs to be knocked down from its high horse" (No TL pun intended) High horse?? We've been knocked down, kicked, and beaten for the better part of a decade by all major regions, including LEC. The wins are rare, but when they appear, we will fucking lord them over EU fans - as is our right. NRG beating G2 was the uncovering of a renewable hopium source that will keep us going for another 10 years. We have no "good old days" to wistfully pine for. We have no great heights we've fallen from. We are used to failure; thus we shall savor success, and shout it from the rooftops. Meanwhile LEC can keep huffing the fumes of the past. Hate to break it to you, but 2019 G2 is not coming back. Seeth more.
Fair play I respect that. Memeing us because you won is fair. It really sucked to watch as an eu fan but I let the salt rain to make me feel better
Moved to the Netherlands from the US last year, not a huge NRG fan but I love spamming their emote since the G2 series lol
I think you overestimate how much of the "regular players" watch e-sports :P
TL could've gone 2-3 where the game quality looked like T1-GenG in their recent finals and an EU bro would've been "I can't believe you got the luckiest draw and can't even close it out. I remember when \*MY\* region won MSI, it wasn't that long ago either"
No one in their right mind would flame TL for taking TES to 5 games (tripling the number of wins NA has gotten against eastern teams in the past year). This is next level shadowboxing.
it's very funny you don't even give TL the luxury of actually winning the series in the fantasy scenario you made up so you can dunk on strawmen
*be shit* "Pff even if we weren't shit you'd still call us shit" ...
I see you a lot around here fanning the EU vs NA flames (obviously taking the NA side), but the comments were no more mean-spirited than any other comments made during NA hours or whenever EU gets smashed. This "talking shit whenever NA gets one on EU and then playing the victim card whenever the opposite happens" shtick is pathetic, both regions suck and both are allowed to shit talk each other without all that woe is me bs.
It’s been 5 years since EU did anything 💀
If you have to win an international tournament to "do anything" then the West will probably never do anything again.
By this logic NA never did anything in the 14 year history of official lol esports
EU RIDING HIGH OF FNATIC CHAMPIONSHIP STILL
It is known
Nah u can fight geng in the loser bracket, good luck!
TL reaching finals only to get 3-0ed by G2 again
As an eu fan I’m happy we are losing 3-2 but gen g lost 3-0. Second best team at the tourney I’ll take it
yea they are cooked, my faith has always lied with Marek Brazda and claps
Yep I will always have faith if either of them are the midlaner in internationals
Both look incredibly good right now too
Why does Marek Brazda's name just sound so gigachad lol?
Impact indirectly just said he wants to flame but he's holding back lol. You cannot convince me APA/YEON are world class players. They are fine domestically but the gap is huge between them and LCK/LPL.
No one on TL performed like a world class player today, it's not just Apa and Yeon.
Impact was terrible today too, he had so many random deaths for no reason and mechanical misplays. Only corejj looked aight and even he had the 2v2 top lane in the first game where he and yeon ran it down
[This](https://www.youtube.com/live/FCXiZKio9c8?si=wQ-xnX8D8bOde_9x&t=9169) play by impact is literal wintrade levels of bad. Like nothing he did there made any sense. Did not ult, stopped aa'ing as one of the highest aa dps champs in the game, kited away from his teammate coming to help, can't run away anyway because he is fighting tf point blank. Gave away a free kill and his team can't fight anymore because they don't have rumble ult.
You linked the entire vod for the series, do you have a time stamp?
The link does have the automatic timestamp in it But if it's not working it's pointing to 2:32:50
It worked for me, are you on mobile? I suspect that's why the timestamp didn't work for you
Yea, i’m on mobile. Do you remember the approximate timestamp?
play starts around 2:32:49 game 2, impact tries to ambush 369 in botlane
Core's Renata game was rather disappointing as well; he held on to that ultimate in scenarios where it could have probably equalised team-fights.
He was still the only one setting up kills even with all of his inting in both games one and two like when he caught tian with a hook in bottom side, his Nami game was atrocious too. Now that I think about it, even core was bad, literally everyone was bad, and I’m sad
I want to know what you're smoking if you think Impact played bad this series. That 2v2 top side was Corejj call 100% lol, such a dumb call that probably just works or at least they don't get killed in LCS
Impact got randomly caught multiple times game 1.
Impact's game 1 and 2 were so bad, game 1 i'd attribute it to the rest of the team completely rolling over, its hard to do anything as Ksante, but game 2, he facechecked grubs top side against 2 people and died for fun and then proceeded to get completely blasted in lane because of that, and in midlane he tried to walk through mid through 3 people to get to his turret, lost his flash, and died anyways. game 3 he was pretty good, but the blast cone into 3 people into another flash death was bad too. Idk how you think he didn't play bad, nobody on TL played good
Game 1 was on botlane, but that rumble was *atrocious* .
You gonna watch his rumble game especially mega egregious int deaths at 16 and 18 mins and tell me he played well? You really gonna tell me this wasn't one of the worst Rumble games at an international tourney you're ever seen? You guys are on one haha
No one on TL is a world class player at this point
Did you even read the interview? That's not the impression I got at all. He spent a lot of time talking about lane swaps and not being proactive in map play compared to TES.
It's reddit man. No one reads the articles, just look at the headline and start flaming.
The entire team is gapped including impact lol. It’s not only mid/bot holding them back. None of them are world class players which is why they’re in the LCS
on paper, Impact did well because 369 got ganked and gave fb. but then 369 gets like 20+cs advantage when both gets isolated.
More like "what's the point of flaming?" Do we actually believe Impact thought that team was capable of winning MSI? Or any NA team? Or any combination of 5 NA players? Why flame your teammates when it serves no purpose. Everyone knows they're not good enough for LPL/LCK already.
They aren't. They're rookies. Lmao. This was APA's first full split, he got subbed in halfway for haeri last year, and yeon's second on the main team. Who said they were world class anything?
APA wasn't even that bad lol. He played to scale, fought okayish and just got team diffed. Sure his asol ults weren't great, but it's not like they were allowed a clean front to back fight either.
He played like he has never seen an Ornn in his life before
Yep he got solo bolo'd by the farming ornn. Shouldn't've happened. I won't say his shit didn't stink, only that he didn't do *that* poorly, and did something approximating his job
They're obviously not but the question is can they be in the future
Yes, Impact is a very competitive person. He's very critical and willing to call people out. It's not that he's toxic but he expects a certain standard to be upheld. It's why he's been at the top of his region for such a long time.
Impact is usually a world class player but he was a dud today. Honestly I don't think NA has any world class players on an individual level at this point. Maybe Jojo. No one on FLY looked good either.
What NA players are world class & could play in LCK/LPL if they had no language barriers?
Bro ruined their chances with his rumble. He can't flame evryone was shit.
With all due respect to Impact but like, his inting Rumble was a big reason the Asol and Smolder never made it to the lategame. He had a lot of problems with Rumble in the LCS this split too. Against FLY the first time, he was addicted to overgrouping without teleport and dropping 2k+ gold of free CS.
Your second point is true of all but a handful of players in the west
Apart from skills Ofc u can not be worldclass if u can only play 1-2 champs at high lvl lol.
TL either show up against FNC in lower bracket or don’t, this squad isn’t anything good beyond NA
Expected really tbh. No one should ever think they can win against eastern teams when their players are just downgraded versions of eastern players.
Better team is an understatement. They got smashed through the roof, it was such a sad showing.
I know you didn’t mean it this way, but the title implies it is expected of proplayers to flame their teammates after they lose a game or series.
Lol we all know they wanna mention their mids champ pool
Even if APA only had one champion there was no reason to pick Jhin. idk what TL did in scrims to think this is the answer
TL can pick whatever ADCs and they’d still lose. Gumayusi is spamming Jhin in soloQ, I bet TL had a scrim block against T1 and got smashed. Jhin is a trash champ until T1 win with it, then Reddit will make a 180 lol. Same shit with Lethality Kalista, Lucian/Nami during LCS hours. All result-based analyst. Still can’t believe NA analyst/casters/streamers and Reddit flamed LCS teams for sticking with Lucian/Nami. Now NA teams are perma behind during draft.
also you hear this prevailing thing of "the west isn't good enough to win with meta, they should try more unusual picks" - TL picks something unusual "lmao, imagine picking this dogshit non-meta champ"
(specifically for game 3) There is a big difference between "let's pick an offmeta, thought out teamcomp/champ" and "first rotation lethality Jhin in a tank top + bruiser mobile junglers meta with a Lucian already locked in and multiple viable support pairings available". Going Twitch, Tristana, maybe even Sivir would have been better: better waveclear, tankbusting/pushing power and/or teamfights. Instead TL went with immobile carries, single target oriented pick CC into very safe and easy to pilot poke/skirmish comp with powerful defwnsive tools to avoid/neutralize attempts at picks, then fumbled in fundamentals (Uncontested Jhin 20 CS to Lucian 40 CS and a goddamn K'sante in a laneswap at 20 CS). APA getting solokilled by Ornn in game 2, burning flash for 1/2 second of Q on enemy Xin when TES was pushing tier 1 mid like he genuinepy disn't think Xin would walk forward with 3 teammates versus one Aurelion. Double dragon in game 2 for absolutely 0 pressure early and free scaling and lane advantage for the alreasy known to be better team - that can work in soloqueue or against passive teams, but Asia, especially LPL is known for aggression. TES played well, and trying an offmeta pick has merit ro upset the plans of the better team, but the pick has to be planned and thought out. Jhin coild have worked as last rotation pick into a squishy and/or slow teamcomp, not as an essentially blindpick.
Yeah it just doesn't matter at all, people who want to region bait and hate on NA will grasp at anything in reach
"You are not Gumayusi, your teammates are not T1"
Jhin is only ever viable into 5 squishy champs that builds full dmg and he can hit and run tactics. The moment there's one remotely tanky thing in front of him (soloq), he is the msot useless thing. He also sucks in laning these days. Picking him, honestly, you could pick almost any other champ in the game and be more useful
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Yeah APA's champ pool is a bit of an issue, but APA actually performed alright in Games 2 and 3. Poor Yeon just looked dizzy all series. JackeyLove is an ADC you cannot give free kills to.
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I do think there are a lot of reasons TL lost, but Yeon was definitely the worst performer. I hope they can bounce back in Loser's Bracket. I would hate to see them get 3-0'd again.
i mean, before the series even started people were already calling bot will be the biggest gap. turns out to be omega true
Yeah, but it's not like that was supposed to even be really contentious. I'm a big Creme enjoyer but he definitely isn't Knight or Chovy or whoever that will crush a worse player so hard they compress into a singular point. And Impact is (supposed to be) a stable top laner able to keep up even with the best players in the world (which he definitely wasn't today). And it's pretty hard to jungle-gap someone in pro play the same way you can as a laner unless you're literally sitting in your opponent's jungle with Olaf or whatever the whole game. JackeyLove (and Meiko) meanwhile is exactly the kind of a laner that will crush worse players, and Yeon, despite looking quite good in playoffs definitely isn't a world class player, far from it. We saw how hard FNC's bot lane got clobbered, and I'd take Noah over Yeon any day of the week, and Jun easily over current CoreJJ form as well.
It's so unfortunate because he gets so much praise for being a scrim god even internationally when TL does their bootcamps. I thought he squashed his stage nerves during LCS playoffs but I guess not. I feel like since 2021 theres always a 50/50 chance a promoted native academy/challengers player chokes internationally: danny, busio, yeon choke while jojopyun, massu, apa, palafox don't. Idk about the other regions (i might be mistaken) but it seems unusually high for NA specifically
Mid is bad but bot lane is legit LDL level
Most people would think LDL level is a compliment here
upvoted, but honestly... most people actually have no idea what LDL is, lol.
My doctor tells me to stay away from LDL
I legit don't even think APA played poorly enough to flame him for it. Creme on the other hand made corki's damage look completely broken. Deleting players with a usually more sustain dps champion.
That's just the skill gap lmao. If you're a LPL enjoyer you would know that Creme is actually known for having a pretty questionable corki and frequently runs it down with package. TES was just that much better in every aspect they could look good on their bad picks.
Creme is one of the best Corki players in LPL...
His professional record before the two wins in this series was 9W-10L for Corki. Kind of far from inspiring.
Damn almost like OMG were a .500 team :O
There's also the possibility that Creme buffed up his Corki gameplay for the tournament
True, but a gold player looks like a god against bots so it's hard to tell.
Didn't he get killed 1vs1 by Meiko on Ornn in the sidelane
It was a farming Ornn so it's not like he was weak or anything.
There is no reason to ever get killed as an Asol against an orn.
He played the 1v1 as bad as he could tho
LETS GO! Maybe next series, we can make it to 30 min. That's my Everest.
Bro watched Vinland Saga
Nah fuck it, full send on Yeon
I wonder what Inspired him to change his approach in becoming a nicer teammate
The last TL top laner to flame his team got sent to brazil
Is the same in soloq and same for any team game, what is flaming teammates going to do other than making it worse? Cant expect LCS to suddenly just level up to Eastern standards, ther are short-term n long-term goals, rn they need to figure out how to work-around their flaws, eventually they want to eliminate them
There is no eliminating them. The NA scene is on life support in terms of dedicated youth to grind and want to be pro. Too many other games with better opportunities for NA youth to try for. Even EU is struggling to find new blood that can compete internationally. League is in the hands of the East, and it will stay that way indefinitely. Unless somehow the LPL collapses due to their government's overbearing reach and the LCK just tanks economically
I dont even care NA shits the bed at international events, nothing will change but LCS was much more fun to watch this split with high kills and azir disabled. This MSI is boring af to watch.
Internationals are always boring when the west is still alive. Give it some time, we’ve had literally *one* main stage BO5 so far.
Yeah how can you say boring when we just had 1 bo5 only in main event lol.
I mean quite simple. If you are a fan of your own region and it gets completely stomped and you dont really care about others even if they are a lot better it wont be exciting or interesting to watch no? Like ofc I know when CN plays KR its objectively better and more fun but it is not for me. When west gets eliminated I just dont watch any games anymore. Not that they are bad I just dont find it interesting in the slightest.
"TL Impact admits Top Esports was the better team, but refused to flame his teammates". Funny how this also applies to how you can avoid bans in league.
Is that an admission that he treated players badly in the past. i.e. during his time on EG? 🤔
Maybe I'm just Ina mood rn but these comments (most of them) show exactly the kind of immaturity Impact should be praised for outgrowing here. NA is currently like 2-41 against LCK/LPL in the last 2 years.....so to expect TL to best TES is just really unrealistic... new format also heavily lowers the chances of random upsets. Old format would've had teams playing multiple opponents in bo1 in the same day, so if you (as a LCK/LPL team) focused on beating better teams and overlooked weaker regions and took a random L here and there it would've made a lot more sense....compared to this year where the ONLY opponent TES has to prepare for on the day was TL. Like it sucks NA is so weak, but I don't think it's realistic to even expect one our teams to suddenly become a contender for being one of the top 5 teams in the world....and that's what beating TES here would basically imply. It's not a match-up where they really had a chance. Every position was fundamentally gapped, even including coaching staff, and support personal in the org... Given everything, it seems ALOT more reasonable to say "yeah, we were outclassed. No reason to flame them for doing their best and and failing." Than to just rant about how 'emberassing' it is to lose a match up they had zero chance of realistically winning.... idk again maybe I'm just Ina mood rn or something. TL isn't at the level to be a top 3 team in LPL, so I don't feel shocked TES dominated. I'm actually just glad TL atleast went out there and tried stuff and played scrappy aggressive gameplay. Yeah basically every play and skirmish ended in TES favor. But I honestly 100% prefer that to the classic move of NA teams going FULL standard scaling comps against LCK/LPL and just losing slowly without ever even attempting to make a proactive play. Look back at some TSM international games if you wanna see what I mean here.