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I think the issue is that you might need to study anatomy a bit more. There is definitely variation in body type i.e. not every woman has narrow shoulders or wide hips etc, but unless you know your anatomy, you won't know which rules are ok to bend/break. From these pictures, consider increasing the heads size and make sure the pelvis tilts a little more forward.
For quick reference, the body is roughly the size of 7 heads for women and 8 heads for men. I know realism isn’t the targeted aesthetic, but proportions go a long way in helping the subject look more human-esque. Humans have had a long time to develop a sense of what other humans should look like, and are able to tell when something doesn’t quite add up, even if it is something relatively small. I’d recommend looking at anatomy of the body and face, and trying to get those proportions down first. Rules/Guidelines are best broken once one’s able to understand why they are rules in the first place. Fundamentals will go a surprisingly long way.
https://preview.redd.it/o7vopmrtvn0d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d46d1574ca83fe1330e26b4277ad95b2bfb786ad
You should get basic anatomy down as close to realistic as possible. Then you can break the rules intentionally. Biggest mistake most artists make is skipping the fundamentals for chasing “style”
I used to model for fine art classes, the school I went to had an excellent program. I was lucky enough to be able to listen to the anatomy lectures while modeling, and seeing the before and after progress of the students was remarkable. You really do need to understand anatomy even if you don't study it formally, understanding it makes all the difference in the world
When you say tilted forward do you mean the top of the pelvis is tipped forward for the bottom is tipped forward?
Another way to describe it if the pelvic girdle is a bowl, in the top of the pelvis is tipped forward then the contents of the bowl with spill out in front of the person if that makes sense? And the person's lower spine would be curved like lordosis? So when you say tipped forward do you mean the bottom part of the pelvis is tipped forward so like the tailbone is tucked under and the lower back would look flat and if the pelvis wear a bowl it would be sitting very level and straight?
Sorry if those are weird or unclear explanations, but I've heard tipped forward referred to in both ways and I definitely think the first way like the top of the pelvis tipped forward and the lower back shortened and contracted into a curve is more in line with female anatomy than the second way
I know, I was the one asking for help, but I tried looking into what they meant and it seems that they ment that the further part of the metaphorical bowl is supposed to be higher. In other words if a character stand to you facing you, the contains if the bowl would be spilling out in yourd direction.
The spine seems to also curve back a bit at the very end. Not sure about sitting tho.
Okay yes exactly if the bowl was tipped and contents spilling out in front of the person, that's what the female pelvis looks like. I used to work as a model for Life drawing classes and it was shocking how different the male and female skeletons looked, in the muscles, even though technically we have the same parts they are just expressed in such different ways, by the end of that class I could tell you by looking at a skull if it was male or female, the teacher was excellent
When drawing female poses, the general lines are more curved. Masculine poses typically stand out to me as more rigid. I think with how you’re going about things, the female faces need to be shorter to distinguish them from male faces.
Yeah, that's what I meant. The chest is very big in comparison to the head. Also, I realised some features of the face look androgynous, liie elongated chin. I would go about female head as a circle and male as rectangle, if you know, what I mean
It’s about the body shape women have wider hips and typically more daintier tops. Men are top heavy like your drawings. Right now your bodies seem more square and V shaped if anything try drawing them more like a pear. Jaw line is another thing that makes the character look more masculine.
Women have wider cheeks and more narrow jawlines. Typically it aligns around where the mouth starts creating a v like shape from the front. And a nice diagonal from side. Men have stronger bone structures which can cause the jawline to appear lower than the mouth.
Women are naturally more curvy than men so stiff rigid shapes really hurt that feeling. Hope this helps
I’m a woman and no these do not read as women to me. I wouldn’t even say they look androgynous. They all look like men. I would study women’s anatomy some more.
The body types and facial structures of your anatomy here reads to me as too masculine, although of course women can have masculine features, it depends on what you're going for. However if you want them to be more feminine, I'd say make the faces more rounded, the jawlines in them read to me as male structured. Also, wide shoulders and triangular upper bodies are more male types than female (typically.)
I'd definitely study some anatomy when you have the chance, try to replicate art that holds feminine traits you enjoy and just practice practice practice! You have a good hold on it, I like your style! Your lines are clean and the shading with pencil looks smooth. Ya just gotta gain more understanding through studies.
My main problem is that, as I see it, to represent diversity in my designs I have to know the components it's made out of and I seem to struggle with more trad fem parts and characteristics, hence why I'm trying to look into them.
I should really start copying more to see how others approach that.
Thank you.
I wish you luck, please post more art I'd love to see your journey, or if you have a social ill follow you.
Your grasp is awesome already, you'd be surprised how quickly you'll improve in a short amount of time with some studying!
Not really. Even for more masculine looking females, there are certain characteristics (eyelashes, breasts, full lips) that lend towards a feminine appearance. Try incorporating some of these because the small head, broad shoulders, and large hands give a more masculine look.
I would advise using more references and finding references for the type of women you’re trying to portray. I think it’s cool that you want to represent different body types and not just the typical ones we’re used to seeing.
I think the anatomy just looks a little off. The heads are very small, the faces are very simple, but read make because of the jaw. The legs seem too small.
In cartoons things are usually over exaggerated. So a big jaw on a simplified cartoon face reads as male. Of course you can do whatever you want, but the more simplified your style is, the more what you’re trying to convey is going to rely on stereotypes. Males are drawn blocky, females curvy.
The rib cage is a bit long, and many women have a waist just below the ribs.
As others have said, shoulders.
Also the height of the chin. The bottom of the nose should be equidistant (or a little closer) to the chin than the eyelashes.
No, more like guys that are wearing women's clothes. It's pretty common for an artist to focus either more on male or female body types. My girlfriend has a hard time drawing masculine dudes and I have a hard time drawing feminine women. The best thing that has helped me tho is looking up the website "line of action" (as well as taking a figuring drawing class). Only study nude female models. Like, really study them. Look at the negative space as shapes that happen to form the female body. Notice how muscle and fat distribution affects how a body looks masculine or feminine. That will honestly help you the most.
To me and most people, they do look more like men. However, there are women that exist with similar body types to what you’ve drawn. You have to decide if you care more about the characters looking the way that they do or people seeing them the way you want them to be seen. Both are completely fine goals, but based off your description it seems like you’re happy with how they look. Is how other people view their gender important to you?
I mean, art is a way to communicate, so maybe not the specific people that I refered to in the post, but potential viewers in general. Sometimes I need characters to be seen as more "fem" sometimes less, and it seems like i struggle with the "more" part.
The first and third one look masculine to me, but the second one looks more female.
Women can be broad and men can be lithe, lots of outliers and exceptions, but generally there is still natural bone structure to think of - women are almost always wider in the pelvis and men are wider in the shoulders. Men have larger jaws, hands and feet and are generally taller.
https://preview.redd.it/g5jmh5p4ho0d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e526524b6c91390ac035dc217d6c15c3d1934899
Read as him.
As a feminist the torso looks alright to me. I've seen women with that body shape. It's the face. The eyebrows seem too dark and too thick, and the brow ridge should be smoother if you aim at a woman feature.
Study anatomy more. Males are different than females & while I see that you are working the breast line, your anatomy looks more male. 😊
Nothing wrong with it! Larger pelvis is one of the things on a female that isn’t a male. Maybe working on that will help as well!
Great work though. 😁
No, they all give off the vibe of a guy cosplaying as a woman. But there's some really great advice here already posted. Good luck in your art journey!
They are built like the old animated series Batman. It's the big torso, buff arms, and big hands.
Maybe try making the shoulders narrower and make the head bigger (or the rest smaller)
Yes they really don't read as female. I understand what you are saying that there are different body types and everything, but these do not look like masculine women they just look like men. I don't know if it's maybe that the heads are too small, the only way I would be able to guess they were female was because of the clothing or the hairstyle that you drew and even then I would have guessed it as a man wearing women's clothing.
1 and 3 definitely read as masculine for me. I feel like the head shape is more seen in men+ no eyelashes (personal preference when recognizing female drawings lol)+the breasts don't seem... Breasty? I know women with small boobs exist, but they are placed a bit too high and are pretty flat
Edit: Oh right, the heads are a Tad small for the body! I was going to say the proportions seem masculine, but i studied it more and realised that it's just the heads causing it to look that way (I think I have a similar body type to these drawings, so it looks good regardless!)
I feel like this is after from a cartoon drag show. Seriously. The face says “feminine.” But the hands shoulder width and other characteristics in the anatomy says “Masculine.”
My impression is that your figures have more solid/ wider bodies and smaller heads/ slim necks.
Overall I wd expect women to have more rounded shoulders, and in the third one the chest area may need to be lower and more rounded, it looks a bit like a horizontal bar. Breasts don’t end at the armpits but lower, I hope I am making sense.
The most female like is the second one
It takes time and we've all been there you need to study anatomy more. Like look at how to draw manga books etc by Japanese artists. Then branch out to the more realistic. You have to know the way people view men and women and render them traditionally before you can say fuck binary stereotypes and change it accordingly.
Take into consideration Colleen doran who helped create pre operative transwoman Wanda in Sandman. She drew a man but she knew her anatomy and made Wanda feminine while still being masculine.
The second one looks a little more like a woman. Idk if that's what your going for but 🤷. As far as drawing women that you don't want to put into dresses/ have short hair and you still want to look like women, the simplist thing you can do is add some eyelashes at the side (like a littlest pet shop, just something small).
If you don't wanna go that route, I'd recommend making softer jawlines that give the characters a more rounded face. With these characters you did great with that. One thing you can take by watching masculine/ feminine makeup tutorials is that men typically have more angular looking features, and women typically have softer. This isn't to say you can't mix and match them, becuase I do all the time and it's fine. Just letting you know that might be something to look into.
Another thing is body. There are many body types, but men tend to have slightly thicker necks, shoulders, and thinner hips. Obviously this isn't the case always, but if you have noticeable differences throughout your drawings between a male and a female then when you go to switch things up a bit more your brain (and other people's) can automatically take the things you notice about other stuff and apply it there.
Hope this helps!!
I’m not sure if it reads as masculine or feminine but I feel like the face is too narrow in comparison with the rest of the body, which is a lot broader.
The problem with a drawing is, we can't talk to it to understand it's emotions, identities and intentions. So we have to rely on visual storytelling to express those things.
To me, the first one reads "male wizard, that works out". Wizard robes are not super gendered from the get go, so they don't tell us anything about the character's identity in that regard. And their body and face is very angular and tall, which reads more masculine. Not that I don't like a muscle mommy, but even when very toned, a body, that is exposed to high levels of estrogen/testosterone hormones over a long time will develop specific shapes and these are not estrogeny shapes.
Not that it's impossible for such a body to exist, but it's very unlikely. Make it a bit more soft and shapey, doesn't even have to be much, and you'll be golden. Same with the face. That's a very square jawline. As a German, we have a phenotype of people (women, men, anyone in between) with this kind of heavy jaw, and they can't hold a candle to miss wizard here.
Due to the lack of gender-tellibg features, all the characters look neither male or female. Sonewhat androginous. Sone lean more into male i suppose.
Maybe an example might help.
Have you watched rick and morty? If you took off Summers ponytail and vovered up her curves, and she didnt speak...would you know she was a woman? Probably not.
Same for Frankie Foster in Fosters hone for imaginary friends. Take away her curves, ponytail, eyelashes and voice...boy or girl? You wouldnt tell. Because she is drawn so basically.
While this is true, I think it takes away the possiblility of designing anything even slightly nonconforming to the traditionally fem characteristics and that is something important for me.
Then why ask?
Drawing honest male and female characters is all about not conforming. If you want a girl to not look conventially 'girly' then continue drawing them as androgynous or masculine as you like.
There are no wrong answers.
But if you want your basic characters to actually look 'feminine' then your going to have to add something.
I mean, some people try to conform really hard or I need to depict some characters like they do.
I'm just trying to figure out the parts that I can mix to make more interasting designs that fulfill their purpose.
Here are a few bilogical facts about the male and female human skull, if it helps?
Male skull: has a more prominant supraorbital ridges glabella on their forehead. They have more prominant temporal lines.
Female skull: has more rounder eye sockets. The jaws are more narrow and often rounder. The forehead appears bigger due to the subtle brow ridges.
Edit: also! Male skulls are generally bigger and more angular than fwmale ones. The crown of the female skull is much smoother and rounder.
The fact is the bone and muscle structure of the characters without context communicates that they are men.
You could start with less angular lines and more curvy lines and less broad shoulders. They don't have to be ultra fem but they do have to have some fem characteristics if you want people to recognize them as female without having to explain.
There's no one way to look feminine or "like a woman". There are features people perceive as masculine such as sharp jawlines, bigger noses, shorter hair, and/or boxier bodies. Which is weird since people of all genders can have those features. You don't have to live by "boxy equals man, curvy equals woman" as a lot of people in these replies are suggesting because that's not the case for everyone. If you say these characters are women then they're women. A lot of people replying to you are being blatantly transphobic and misogynistic imo. I think you'd benefit from anatomy studies, as every artist does, but your characters are fine the way they are.
I agree with you, it's just that sometimes people aren't able to recognise my characters as women even when I don't bring that question up and I needed some outside perspective on how can I work on that for characters that are supposed to be easily recognizable (or if I need to change anything at all and people around me are just being wierd with me).
Many here said that I need to work opn anatomy, so I'll be looking into that more.
I'm not really planing to change much either, just wondered what are the things I can look out for in the future to make designs that fulfil their purpose for the viewer.
Yeah sadly people are stuck in their ways of viewing others as either male or female. I looked through the replies and almost everyone is just spewing transphobia. Don't feel like you have to change how your characters look in order for people to recognize them as a certain gender. Tbh I don't think there's anything you need to look out for. Just don't let people tell you what is and isn't feminine. These are your characters and its up to you how you wish for them to present. If they look fine to you now, that's all that matters really. Hopefully that makes sense
Thank you, I honestly wish people were less like they are in the comments here (I seriously expected a lot more diversity-friendly community here). I'll remember what you said, maybe that approach will work better with me.
No problem! I don't know why they even bother having a rule of being respectful and civil if people are free to be bigots.
By the way, if you would like anatomy book recommendations, I'd suggest Morpho art books. You can find pdfs of them online they're so helpful with simplifying and understanding anatomy.
Their bodies and shoulders are quite wide and large, while their heads are all quite narrow and long. Definitely leans towards reading as male. Generally, to read well, men lean square, large, solid, and women lean round, smaller, and fluid. So, in practice that means for me you want to be using squares and upside down triangles for construction, and for women you want to use circles/ovals and right side up triangles for construction. But you can play around with that once you master it so that you can get more diverse/interesting designs.
Like as you say, yes people come in all shapes and sizes. It's really more about mastering and understanding the fundamentals of shape language, so you can design characters that are diverse and read as you intend. Instead of getting stuck in same face/body syndrome, which I notice your characters exhibit, they all really share the same body and head shape.
I think if you really want to improve in this area you should do a lot of studies and gesture drawings of various bodies so you can fill your visual library with more diversity. I second also that you study anatomy more, so you can have a better understanding of how to construct the form in intentional and creative ways.
If you say they're women, they're women. Gender standards are bull. If you're aiming to make them look more "feminine" the proportions would only slightly need be adjusted, but feminity is subjective too.
I think that the biggest inconsistency here is that the heads tend to be more in a cartoony style (reminds me of Toy Story), while the bodies show more realistic proportions (and the bodies absolutely read as women's). Drawing both in a uniform style should make the distinction clearer.
I think the main reason they're reading masculine is a combo of the face and hips, women typically have rounder faces and wider hips, I feel like if the hips were wider the faces wouldn't read as masculine or if the faces were shorter/roumder the bodies wouldn't read as masculine as they come off but both of them combined reads masculine.
Like for the same character even, the 1st image the face reads masculine while the body reads neutral imo while in the last one the faces reads feminine while the anatomy reads masculine imo
The torsos are a bit wide for a female, also hair plays a deal. The chest area looks masculine. But perhaps that could be the look you are going for.
Also good work & keep it up!!
Your sketches look really nice! I like the unique style. And wow, you can draw hands well as well!
In my opinion, it's the anatomy that needs a little work.
Everyone has their own unique style, and I'd like to see more in the future!
I'm going to leave this other comment to clarify. I understand what you mean if a critique comes from somebody's sexist like if a person refers to transgender women as men, or calls someone a lesbian because they prefer a tomboyish aesthetic for clothing, then you're not going to really trust their judgment or critiques on your drawing.
I would not consider myself a sexist person. I don't think that you have to have a specific shape to be a woman. People really do come in all shapes and sizes. But if I were looking at these drawings and he told me they were women, I would assume that they were trans women before hormone therapy. Which is fine and that is absolutely a woman. But there's a difference between that being a biological female with a more masculine or tomboyish build. These do not come off as biological females whatsoever, the anatomy is far too stereotypically masculine. As someone else mentioned earlier even those men don't look that exaggeratedly masculine unless they work out. Studying anatomy, especially if you can start with the skeleton and then look at all the differences between male and female skeletons that will help you.
Also in that first drawing for a second it looked like the character was holding up a tiny puppet that looked just like themselves and I thought that was a really cool design
I won't go into specifics, but they just so happens to also be sexist in my other interactions with them, not related to my scribbles or marginalised identities and ways to expess oneself. Non of these characters were meant to be trans or too nonconforming, except small details like the haircut of the first character, which isn't supposed to affect much.
The anatomy is the big consensus among people here, so you're right.
Ah, I just made a little full-body thingy if her outfit, I guess, hope it wasn't the only thing you liked in the design
Oh no it wasn't the only thing I liked, I was more commenting that it tricked my eyes at first into thinking she was holding a miniature doll of herself and then I thought that would be kind of a cool character idea. No I like the characters a lot. The first one is particularly interesting and kind of almost reminds me of pearl from Steven universe
I also think everyone comes in all shapes and sizes. You may call me sexist, but if you are going for a more feminine look, I think the shoulders should be less broad? Just basic observation. I'm not an expert, so don't take me seriously.
Ps. No offense but the 3rd one just looks like a straight up dude
Don't worry, I'm not that judgmental, I didn't call those people sexist because they were critiquing me in that specific way (It just so happens that they were also that, so I needed some outside perspective).
Others also commented on the shoulders, I'll pay attention to that in the future.
Third pic is the oldest and I rarely draw people from the side, so that's no suprise, really should practice more in that field.
Thank you for critiquing.
I would assume these were amab people, but gender is very fluid. if you told me a character's name and that they are a woman, that changes it in my brain because it doesn't really matter what I think of the character. it's about your art as it is your character. though if you're looking to study afab body types, I would point this as a good reference ⬇️
https://preview.redd.it/uhulunasyo0d1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abab8c640e6c77845d769c5da0656b364c63b539
Ok man one thing you should fix is how the hands are bigger than the head and also those look like transgender boys with all due respect so id fix that and make their faces look more feminine
I would add hair and emphasize on the eyelashes. Make the eyebrows thinner and angular and make the nose smaller, almost nonexistent.
The hips are good but the waist should be smaller. Other than that it’s a good sketch. I’m an artist myself so I know it takes time to master drawing, but keep on practicing!
to an extent yes. but you're your own worst critic. the second one, in the back, shows more female features,than the other,as in the body,but you can tell,it's female
And yeah, pls ignore stuff like wierd eyes, missing arm and tpose in the first pic, the goal was more designing outfit for a character.
Also maybe wide shoulders in some characters are the biggest problem, idk, some people just have those.
Yes, some women have broader shoulder’s, but if you want your characters to come across as particularly more male or more female, you need to lean into recognisable stereotypes. Stereotypically women have more petite frames/ smaller and more sloped shoulders
If you don’t care about how your characters gender appears, then do whatever you like but, to me, these all look masculine
not really. more fluid than obvious. could be female, could be male. I do like the concept of the first picture though. that's a good one.
male figures are stereotypically have blocky, ridged and bulky silhouettes (the outline that is). so these examples have more ridged edges and corners that make me think "man" than "female".
easy enough fix. add more softer lines around d the jaw and arms and keep them mostly skinny or smaller to portray female presenting easier.
to learn more, most animation or character hkw to draw books show this example because it's a pillar of character design that anyone can use and do use to create great art, like the first example you have.
could also look at other characters in shows or anime you like and see how the arms are drawn, what shape is the head? where do the lines start and where they go?
you're definatly well on your way. keep up the good work and look forward to what else is made.
Thank you, so many nice words! A mix of traits is maybe me projecting, as far as I know a common thing with artists and something to work on for me.
I have been trying to make jaws softer (especially in comparison to the third pic), yet some things still don't quite work out.
Should really look more into the basics I guess.
One thing that stands out to me that I haven’t already seen mentioned already. With the third picture she looks like she has massive pectorals rather than smaller breasts if that’s what you were going for. That with the broad shoulders makes her figure look a little more masculine to me. You’re doing a great job though!
It looks like a buff set of pecs with 0% body fat. Think Chris Evans as Captain America. I think the straight line across makes it seem more muscular? I’m not an expert and would recommend watching a YouTube tutorial on torso anatomy. Plus post your results because I’m sure we’d like to see the improvements as feedback is very useful. This picture might help? Though I’m not sure the female version is quite right.
https://preview.redd.it/7falbhk11t0d1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=399cb562ae6a4256d745d6e66a95c9e30597d802
The way the last character is sitting it looks like how girls sit on railings it just has a feminine feel to it. I don't feel like I need to address the way the second character is posed it just looks like a dude in a skirt trying to act like a 12 year old girl. And the first character looks like they are trying to have perfect posture and their arm looks like it's pressing backwards away from a natural hang which I have seen girls do as well. Overall there isn't anything wrong with the drawings unless you were trying to be one over the other all male or all female.
The second one I recognized as female immediately, the first and third not so much. It might be the facial structure as the first & third had longer faces than the second. The first is a the hardest to pinpoint gender on but that can easily be explained as it’s not shaded/still a bit sketchy. Plus it looks like a ref sheet so it doesn’t need to look pretty, just what the character looks like most of the time.
Frick binary standards indeed. Continuing the cookie cutter analogy, I'm just trying different forms to combine them more flavorfully later.
I doubt that the first one will change much for ex, maybe except for the face, I love the way she looks now.
Fuck fucking whatever standards you want before learning how to draw to express what you actually mean. I'd say draw a lot more people in real life, preferably naked instead of trying to do things from imagination. This will equip you with the insights into anatomy and the rules that govern the characterstics of human body-types. Then you can use your powers to protest any standard you can imagine.
If nothing else, go out to a busy train station and draw people around you.
I guess, it's just that I want people to see them as women too, especially in comparison with cases were I make nonconforming or more masc leaning characters.
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I think the issue is that you might need to study anatomy a bit more. There is definitely variation in body type i.e. not every woman has narrow shoulders or wide hips etc, but unless you know your anatomy, you won't know which rules are ok to bend/break. From these pictures, consider increasing the heads size and make sure the pelvis tilts a little more forward.
Thank you. I always thought my heads were too big, tho I'm not aiming for 100% realism.
For quick reference, the body is roughly the size of 7 heads for women and 8 heads for men. I know realism isn’t the targeted aesthetic, but proportions go a long way in helping the subject look more human-esque. Humans have had a long time to develop a sense of what other humans should look like, and are able to tell when something doesn’t quite add up, even if it is something relatively small. I’d recommend looking at anatomy of the body and face, and trying to get those proportions down first. Rules/Guidelines are best broken once one’s able to understand why they are rules in the first place. Fundamentals will go a surprisingly long way. https://preview.redd.it/o7vopmrtvn0d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d46d1574ca83fe1330e26b4277ad95b2bfb786ad
You should get basic anatomy down as close to realistic as possible. Then you can break the rules intentionally. Biggest mistake most artists make is skipping the fundamentals for chasing “style”
This is the way
even if you aren’t going for realism, learning anatomy will be a huge help when drawing any human like character.
I used to model for fine art classes, the school I went to had an excellent program. I was lucky enough to be able to listen to the anatomy lectures while modeling, and seeing the before and after progress of the students was remarkable. You really do need to understand anatomy even if you don't study it formally, understanding it makes all the difference in the world
When you say tilted forward do you mean the top of the pelvis is tipped forward for the bottom is tipped forward? Another way to describe it if the pelvic girdle is a bowl, in the top of the pelvis is tipped forward then the contents of the bowl with spill out in front of the person if that makes sense? And the person's lower spine would be curved like lordosis? So when you say tipped forward do you mean the bottom part of the pelvis is tipped forward so like the tailbone is tucked under and the lower back would look flat and if the pelvis wear a bowl it would be sitting very level and straight? Sorry if those are weird or unclear explanations, but I've heard tipped forward referred to in both ways and I definitely think the first way like the top of the pelvis tipped forward and the lower back shortened and contracted into a curve is more in line with female anatomy than the second way
I know, I was the one asking for help, but I tried looking into what they meant and it seems that they ment that the further part of the metaphorical bowl is supposed to be higher. In other words if a character stand to you facing you, the contains if the bowl would be spilling out in yourd direction. The spine seems to also curve back a bit at the very end. Not sure about sitting tho.
Okay yes exactly if the bowl was tipped and contents spilling out in front of the person, that's what the female pelvis looks like. I used to work as a model for Life drawing classes and it was shocking how different the male and female skeletons looked, in the muscles, even though technically we have the same parts they are just expressed in such different ways, by the end of that class I could tell you by looking at a skull if it was male or female, the teacher was excellent
Yep that's what I meant. Sorry for not being more clear.
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Thank you, I'll remember that
Your designs are really cool, but the first character kinda looks like Woody from Toy Story to me for some reason, lol
I was thinking the same thing. Something about the eyes and sharp jawline
I was thinking Ted Shackleford from Curious George 😅
Thank you! I could have never tought of that, and you're kind of right, I've been struggling a lot with her face too???
It's the jaw, it's very sharp
No not really the jawline says male the poses say female.
Poses? can you tell me more?
I agree. The jawline is very masculine.
When drawing female poses, the general lines are more curved. Masculine poses typically stand out to me as more rigid. I think with how you’re going about things, the female faces need to be shorter to distinguish them from male faces.
More like crossdressing guys. I think the torsos are very broad in comparison to all the rest
As in rest of the body parts? Many here talked about shoulders, so yeah.
Yeah, that's what I meant. The chest is very big in comparison to the head. Also, I realised some features of the face look androgynous, liie elongated chin. I would go about female head as a circle and male as rectangle, if you know, what I mean
They read as dudes ngl
Yeah, I know, i'm looking for reasons why they do. What things can I change to fit the needs of each design better.
It’s about the body shape women have wider hips and typically more daintier tops. Men are top heavy like your drawings. Right now your bodies seem more square and V shaped if anything try drawing them more like a pear. Jaw line is another thing that makes the character look more masculine. Women have wider cheeks and more narrow jawlines. Typically it aligns around where the mouth starts creating a v like shape from the front. And a nice diagonal from side. Men have stronger bone structures which can cause the jawline to appear lower than the mouth. Women are naturally more curvy than men so stiff rigid shapes really hurt that feeling. Hope this helps
Thank you, this does help.
I’m a woman and no these do not read as women to me. I wouldn’t even say they look androgynous. They all look like men. I would study women’s anatomy some more.
The body types and facial structures of your anatomy here reads to me as too masculine, although of course women can have masculine features, it depends on what you're going for. However if you want them to be more feminine, I'd say make the faces more rounded, the jawlines in them read to me as male structured. Also, wide shoulders and triangular upper bodies are more male types than female (typically.) I'd definitely study some anatomy when you have the chance, try to replicate art that holds feminine traits you enjoy and just practice practice practice! You have a good hold on it, I like your style! Your lines are clean and the shading with pencil looks smooth. Ya just gotta gain more understanding through studies.
My main problem is that, as I see it, to represent diversity in my designs I have to know the components it's made out of and I seem to struggle with more trad fem parts and characteristics, hence why I'm trying to look into them. I should really start copying more to see how others approach that. Thank you.
I wish you luck, please post more art I'd love to see your journey, or if you have a social ill follow you. Your grasp is awesome already, you'd be surprised how quickly you'll improve in a short amount of time with some studying!
Thank you again! I post here on Reddit sometimes, maybe should do that more regularly, never thought people would say that about my stuff.
Of course! I'll follow ya on Reddit, then. I love art and I love seeing how other people adapt and improve, it's super cool.
Not really. Even for more masculine looking females, there are certain characteristics (eyelashes, breasts, full lips) that lend towards a feminine appearance. Try incorporating some of these because the small head, broad shoulders, and large hands give a more masculine look.
Hey, woah woah WOAH. Cool it with the transphobia, alright buddy?
In what world is that transphobic you’re just virtue signaling atp
I mean, they didn't anything that outrageous, there are people way worse here.
I would advise using more references and finding references for the type of women you’re trying to portray. I think it’s cool that you want to represent different body types and not just the typical ones we’re used to seeing. I think the anatomy just looks a little off. The heads are very small, the faces are very simple, but read make because of the jaw. The legs seem too small. In cartoons things are usually over exaggerated. So a big jaw on a simplified cartoon face reads as male. Of course you can do whatever you want, but the more simplified your style is, the more what you’re trying to convey is going to rely on stereotypes. Males are drawn blocky, females curvy.
The rib cage is a bit long, and many women have a waist just below the ribs. As others have said, shoulders. Also the height of the chin. The bottom of the nose should be equidistant (or a little closer) to the chin than the eyelashes.
Thank you, I'll work on that.
No, more like guys that are wearing women's clothes. It's pretty common for an artist to focus either more on male or female body types. My girlfriend has a hard time drawing masculine dudes and I have a hard time drawing feminine women. The best thing that has helped me tho is looking up the website "line of action" (as well as taking a figuring drawing class). Only study nude female models. Like, really study them. Look at the negative space as shapes that happen to form the female body. Notice how muscle and fat distribution affects how a body looks masculine or feminine. That will honestly help you the most.
To me and most people, they do look more like men. However, there are women that exist with similar body types to what you’ve drawn. You have to decide if you care more about the characters looking the way that they do or people seeing them the way you want them to be seen. Both are completely fine goals, but based off your description it seems like you’re happy with how they look. Is how other people view their gender important to you?
I mean, art is a way to communicate, so maybe not the specific people that I refered to in the post, but potential viewers in general. Sometimes I need characters to be seen as more "fem" sometimes less, and it seems like i struggle with the "more" part.
The first and third one look masculine to me, but the second one looks more female. Women can be broad and men can be lithe, lots of outliers and exceptions, but generally there is still natural bone structure to think of - women are almost always wider in the pelvis and men are wider in the shoulders. Men have larger jaws, hands and feet and are generally taller.
It's definitely the heads that are the problem, they all look like male-shaped heads with male faces.
https://preview.redd.it/g5jmh5p4ho0d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e526524b6c91390ac035dc217d6c15c3d1934899 Read as him. As a feminist the torso looks alright to me. I've seen women with that body shape. It's the face. The eyebrows seem too dark and too thick, and the brow ridge should be smoother if you aim at a woman feature.
It got that early 2000s yaoi anatomy going on. So the short answer is no. They are cute designs though
shoulders too broad jaws too angular those hands are almost as large as heads they read as men
No
No
Study anatomy more. Males are different than females & while I see that you are working the breast line, your anatomy looks more male. 😊 Nothing wrong with it! Larger pelvis is one of the things on a female that isn’t a male. Maybe working on that will help as well! Great work though. 😁
I have been trying to work on pelvises, didn't quite help, many said that they are supposed to be tilted forward a bit too, so yeah. Still thank you.
You’re welcome!
They all look male to me
No, they all give off the vibe of a guy cosplaying as a woman. But there's some really great advice here already posted. Good luck in your art journey!
[удалено]
💀💀💀
In my opinion no, they don't come across as women. The broad shoulders are definitely a male feature. Softer lines maybe?
Your face shapes are too masculine on 1 and 3
They are built like the old animated series Batman. It's the big torso, buff arms, and big hands. Maybe try making the shoulders narrower and make the head bigger (or the rest smaller)
Not really…
Yes they really don't read as female. I understand what you are saying that there are different body types and everything, but these do not look like masculine women they just look like men. I don't know if it's maybe that the heads are too small, the only way I would be able to guess they were female was because of the clothing or the hairstyle that you drew and even then I would have guessed it as a man wearing women's clothing.
Not really, try having them look less buff and make the body be 7-9 times head size (depending on height)
Nope
Why are their heads so small
They/them
1 and 3 definitely read as masculine for me. I feel like the head shape is more seen in men+ no eyelashes (personal preference when recognizing female drawings lol)+the breasts don't seem... Breasty? I know women with small boobs exist, but they are placed a bit too high and are pretty flat Edit: Oh right, the heads are a Tad small for the body! I was going to say the proportions seem masculine, but i studied it more and realised that it's just the heads causing it to look that way (I think I have a similar body type to these drawings, so it looks good regardless!)
Nnnoope
not yet
I feel like this is after from a cartoon drag show. Seriously. The face says “feminine.” But the hands shoulder width and other characteristics in the anatomy says “Masculine.”
You may want to not give them myocephaly
No
Unfortunately not they’re masculine
No, they range from masculine to androgynous.
Looks like Woody from Toy Story
There isnt context for how they look compared to other characters in this world but id guess the neck is too thin
Yeah, maybe i should have provided something to compare. Thin necks are a problem with my stuff in general, but I'll still consider that.
Not really. Maybe with the middle one? It mostly just looks like they have big pecs and a masc presentation which isn't particularly femme
My impression is that your figures have more solid/ wider bodies and smaller heads/ slim necks. Overall I wd expect women to have more rounded shoulders, and in the third one the chest area may need to be lower and more rounded, it looks a bit like a horizontal bar. Breasts don’t end at the armpits but lower, I hope I am making sense. The most female like is the second one
It takes time and we've all been there you need to study anatomy more. Like look at how to draw manga books etc by Japanese artists. Then branch out to the more realistic. You have to know the way people view men and women and render them traditionally before you can say fuck binary stereotypes and change it accordingly. Take into consideration Colleen doran who helped create pre operative transwoman Wanda in Sandman. She drew a man but she knew her anatomy and made Wanda feminine while still being masculine.
They look like fun and perky men
The second one looks a little more like a woman. Idk if that's what your going for but 🤷. As far as drawing women that you don't want to put into dresses/ have short hair and you still want to look like women, the simplist thing you can do is add some eyelashes at the side (like a littlest pet shop, just something small). If you don't wanna go that route, I'd recommend making softer jawlines that give the characters a more rounded face. With these characters you did great with that. One thing you can take by watching masculine/ feminine makeup tutorials is that men typically have more angular looking features, and women typically have softer. This isn't to say you can't mix and match them, becuase I do all the time and it's fine. Just letting you know that might be something to look into. Another thing is body. There are many body types, but men tend to have slightly thicker necks, shoulders, and thinner hips. Obviously this isn't the case always, but if you have noticeable differences throughout your drawings between a male and a female then when you go to switch things up a bit more your brain (and other people's) can automatically take the things you notice about other stuff and apply it there. Hope this helps!!
It’s giving straight cis men trying to be a woman 😂 it’s the body-head thingy
I’m not sure if it reads as masculine or feminine but I feel like the face is too narrow in comparison with the rest of the body, which is a lot broader.
The problem with a drawing is, we can't talk to it to understand it's emotions, identities and intentions. So we have to rely on visual storytelling to express those things. To me, the first one reads "male wizard, that works out". Wizard robes are not super gendered from the get go, so they don't tell us anything about the character's identity in that regard. And their body and face is very angular and tall, which reads more masculine. Not that I don't like a muscle mommy, but even when very toned, a body, that is exposed to high levels of estrogen/testosterone hormones over a long time will develop specific shapes and these are not estrogeny shapes. Not that it's impossible for such a body to exist, but it's very unlikely. Make it a bit more soft and shapey, doesn't even have to be much, and you'll be golden. Same with the face. That's a very square jawline. As a German, we have a phenotype of people (women, men, anyone in between) with this kind of heavy jaw, and they can't hold a candle to miss wizard here.
Due to the lack of gender-tellibg features, all the characters look neither male or female. Sonewhat androginous. Sone lean more into male i suppose. Maybe an example might help. Have you watched rick and morty? If you took off Summers ponytail and vovered up her curves, and she didnt speak...would you know she was a woman? Probably not. Same for Frankie Foster in Fosters hone for imaginary friends. Take away her curves, ponytail, eyelashes and voice...boy or girl? You wouldnt tell. Because she is drawn so basically.
While this is true, I think it takes away the possiblility of designing anything even slightly nonconforming to the traditionally fem characteristics and that is something important for me.
Then why ask? Drawing honest male and female characters is all about not conforming. If you want a girl to not look conventially 'girly' then continue drawing them as androgynous or masculine as you like. There are no wrong answers. But if you want your basic characters to actually look 'feminine' then your going to have to add something.
I mean, some people try to conform really hard or I need to depict some characters like they do. I'm just trying to figure out the parts that I can mix to make more interasting designs that fulfill their purpose.
Yes i agree. You dont need big boobs or whatever to make people aware a character is a woman.
What do you mean by "actually looking feminine"? None of what you're saying is consistent with each and every human being.
I said 'feminine' as in i am referring to what is conventionally dubbed as 'feminine'.
I also said there are no wrong answers.
Here are a few bilogical facts about the male and female human skull, if it helps? Male skull: has a more prominant supraorbital ridges glabella on their forehead. They have more prominant temporal lines. Female skull: has more rounder eye sockets. The jaws are more narrow and often rounder. The forehead appears bigger due to the subtle brow ridges. Edit: also! Male skulls are generally bigger and more angular than fwmale ones. The crown of the female skull is much smoother and rounder.
That helps, thank you
Your welcome. Good luck. Its all about subtleties.
The fact is the bone and muscle structure of the characters without context communicates that they are men. You could start with less angular lines and more curvy lines and less broad shoulders. They don't have to be ultra fem but they do have to have some fem characteristics if you want people to recognize them as female without having to explain.
There's no one way to look feminine or "like a woman". There are features people perceive as masculine such as sharp jawlines, bigger noses, shorter hair, and/or boxier bodies. Which is weird since people of all genders can have those features. You don't have to live by "boxy equals man, curvy equals woman" as a lot of people in these replies are suggesting because that's not the case for everyone. If you say these characters are women then they're women. A lot of people replying to you are being blatantly transphobic and misogynistic imo. I think you'd benefit from anatomy studies, as every artist does, but your characters are fine the way they are.
I agree with you, it's just that sometimes people aren't able to recognise my characters as women even when I don't bring that question up and I needed some outside perspective on how can I work on that for characters that are supposed to be easily recognizable (or if I need to change anything at all and people around me are just being wierd with me). Many here said that I need to work opn anatomy, so I'll be looking into that more. I'm not really planing to change much either, just wondered what are the things I can look out for in the future to make designs that fulfil their purpose for the viewer.
Yeah sadly people are stuck in their ways of viewing others as either male or female. I looked through the replies and almost everyone is just spewing transphobia. Don't feel like you have to change how your characters look in order for people to recognize them as a certain gender. Tbh I don't think there's anything you need to look out for. Just don't let people tell you what is and isn't feminine. These are your characters and its up to you how you wish for them to present. If they look fine to you now, that's all that matters really. Hopefully that makes sense
Thank you, I honestly wish people were less like they are in the comments here (I seriously expected a lot more diversity-friendly community here). I'll remember what you said, maybe that approach will work better with me.
No problem! I don't know why they even bother having a rule of being respectful and civil if people are free to be bigots. By the way, if you would like anatomy book recommendations, I'd suggest Morpho art books. You can find pdfs of them online they're so helpful with simplifying and understanding anatomy.
Thank you again, I'll check it out
Their bodies and shoulders are quite wide and large, while their heads are all quite narrow and long. Definitely leans towards reading as male. Generally, to read well, men lean square, large, solid, and women lean round, smaller, and fluid. So, in practice that means for me you want to be using squares and upside down triangles for construction, and for women you want to use circles/ovals and right side up triangles for construction. But you can play around with that once you master it so that you can get more diverse/interesting designs.
Like as you say, yes people come in all shapes and sizes. It's really more about mastering and understanding the fundamentals of shape language, so you can design characters that are diverse and read as you intend. Instead of getting stuck in same face/body syndrome, which I notice your characters exhibit, they all really share the same body and head shape. I think if you really want to improve in this area you should do a lot of studies and gesture drawings of various bodies so you can fill your visual library with more diversity. I second also that you study anatomy more, so you can have a better understanding of how to construct the form in intentional and creative ways.
If you say they're women, they're women. Gender standards are bull. If you're aiming to make them look more "feminine" the proportions would only slightly need be adjusted, but feminity is subjective too.
Study anatomy and it’ll help. All the faces are too long (even though plenty of women have longer faces and are still ver beautiful)
I think that the biggest inconsistency here is that the heads tend to be more in a cartoony style (reminds me of Toy Story), while the bodies show more realistic proportions (and the bodies absolutely read as women's). Drawing both in a uniform style should make the distinction clearer.
I think the main reason they're reading masculine is a combo of the face and hips, women typically have rounder faces and wider hips, I feel like if the hips were wider the faces wouldn't read as masculine or if the faces were shorter/roumder the bodies wouldn't read as masculine as they come off but both of them combined reads masculine.
Like for the same character even, the 1st image the face reads masculine while the body reads neutral imo while in the last one the faces reads feminine while the anatomy reads masculine imo
The torsos are a bit wide for a female, also hair plays a deal. The chest area looks masculine. But perhaps that could be the look you are going for. Also good work & keep it up!!
Your sketches look really nice! I like the unique style. And wow, you can draw hands well as well! In my opinion, it's the anatomy that needs a little work. Everyone has their own unique style, and I'd like to see more in the future!
Thank you!
I'm going to leave this other comment to clarify. I understand what you mean if a critique comes from somebody's sexist like if a person refers to transgender women as men, or calls someone a lesbian because they prefer a tomboyish aesthetic for clothing, then you're not going to really trust their judgment or critiques on your drawing. I would not consider myself a sexist person. I don't think that you have to have a specific shape to be a woman. People really do come in all shapes and sizes. But if I were looking at these drawings and he told me they were women, I would assume that they were trans women before hormone therapy. Which is fine and that is absolutely a woman. But there's a difference between that being a biological female with a more masculine or tomboyish build. These do not come off as biological females whatsoever, the anatomy is far too stereotypically masculine. As someone else mentioned earlier even those men don't look that exaggeratedly masculine unless they work out. Studying anatomy, especially if you can start with the skeleton and then look at all the differences between male and female skeletons that will help you. Also in that first drawing for a second it looked like the character was holding up a tiny puppet that looked just like themselves and I thought that was a really cool design
I won't go into specifics, but they just so happens to also be sexist in my other interactions with them, not related to my scribbles or marginalised identities and ways to expess oneself. Non of these characters were meant to be trans or too nonconforming, except small details like the haircut of the first character, which isn't supposed to affect much. The anatomy is the big consensus among people here, so you're right. Ah, I just made a little full-body thingy if her outfit, I guess, hope it wasn't the only thing you liked in the design
Oh no it wasn't the only thing I liked, I was more commenting that it tricked my eyes at first into thinking she was holding a miniature doll of herself and then I thought that would be kind of a cool character idea. No I like the characters a lot. The first one is particularly interesting and kind of almost reminds me of pearl from Steven universe
They read as chicks with dicks lol
I mean, even if they were, they shouldn't be readable as such in these clothes.
What they meant is that the characters read as male-to-female trans because they have masculine bodies paired with feminine clothing and poses.
I also think everyone comes in all shapes and sizes. You may call me sexist, but if you are going for a more feminine look, I think the shoulders should be less broad? Just basic observation. I'm not an expert, so don't take me seriously. Ps. No offense but the 3rd one just looks like a straight up dude
Don't worry, I'm not that judgmental, I didn't call those people sexist because they were critiquing me in that specific way (It just so happens that they were also that, so I needed some outside perspective). Others also commented on the shoulders, I'll pay attention to that in the future. Third pic is the oldest and I rarely draw people from the side, so that's no suprise, really should practice more in that field. Thank you for critiquing.
Trans Women, sure.
I would assume these were amab people, but gender is very fluid. if you told me a character's name and that they are a woman, that changes it in my brain because it doesn't really matter what I think of the character. it's about your art as it is your character. though if you're looking to study afab body types, I would point this as a good reference ⬇️ https://preview.redd.it/uhulunasyo0d1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abab8c640e6c77845d769c5da0656b364c63b539
Tbh not really? All the faces seem masculine to me but the boobs are a giveaway unless they're trans of course
The second one looks female but the other two look male
Yes
Last one kinda looks like Jim halpert
Not at all, no.
Its the michealangelo effect
I tried researching and couldn't find anything related, could you elaborate?
Michealangelo only used male models so all his women just look like men that he stuck tits on
Oh, I guess that's true with me too.
First inw and third look like Scout from tf2
She looka likea man!🤣🤣🤣🤣
At least make the face girly.
Nope.
As the owner of the farm from chicken run sure
The second 2 do but the first one does not. Not enough of a feminine shape
Ok man one thing you should fix is how the hands are bigger than the head and also those look like transgender boys with all due respect so id fix that and make their faces look more feminine
1st one could go either way, 2nd one def girl, 3rd looks like a guy to me
it looks just fine
I would add hair and emphasize on the eyelashes. Make the eyebrows thinner and angular and make the nose smaller, almost nonexistent. The hips are good but the waist should be smaller. Other than that it’s a good sketch. I’m an artist myself so I know it takes time to master drawing, but keep on practicing!
Why she looks like Woody??? 😭😭😭
I've found my people 😭
to an extent yes. but you're your own worst critic. the second one, in the back, shows more female features,than the other,as in the body,but you can tell,it's female
No.
No
And yeah, pls ignore stuff like wierd eyes, missing arm and tpose in the first pic, the goal was more designing outfit for a character. Also maybe wide shoulders in some characters are the biggest problem, idk, some people just have those.
Yes, some women have broader shoulder’s, but if you want your characters to come across as particularly more male or more female, you need to lean into recognisable stereotypes. Stereotypically women have more petite frames/ smaller and more sloped shoulders If you don’t care about how your characters gender appears, then do whatever you like but, to me, these all look masculine
not really. more fluid than obvious. could be female, could be male. I do like the concept of the first picture though. that's a good one. male figures are stereotypically have blocky, ridged and bulky silhouettes (the outline that is). so these examples have more ridged edges and corners that make me think "man" than "female". easy enough fix. add more softer lines around d the jaw and arms and keep them mostly skinny or smaller to portray female presenting easier. to learn more, most animation or character hkw to draw books show this example because it's a pillar of character design that anyone can use and do use to create great art, like the first example you have. could also look at other characters in shows or anime you like and see how the arms are drawn, what shape is the head? where do the lines start and where they go? you're definatly well on your way. keep up the good work and look forward to what else is made.
Thank you, so many nice words! A mix of traits is maybe me projecting, as far as I know a common thing with artists and something to work on for me. I have been trying to make jaws softer (especially in comparison to the third pic), yet some things still don't quite work out. Should really look more into the basics I guess.
One thing that stands out to me that I haven’t already seen mentioned already. With the third picture she looks like she has massive pectorals rather than smaller breasts if that’s what you were going for. That with the broad shoulders makes her figure look a little more masculine to me. You’re doing a great job though!
Yeah, some other people said about the chest too, not sure why and how do I change that. Still thank you.
It looks like a buff set of pecs with 0% body fat. Think Chris Evans as Captain America. I think the straight line across makes it seem more muscular? I’m not an expert and would recommend watching a YouTube tutorial on torso anatomy. Plus post your results because I’m sure we’d like to see the improvements as feedback is very useful. This picture might help? Though I’m not sure the female version is quite right. https://preview.redd.it/7falbhk11t0d1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=399cb562ae6a4256d745d6e66a95c9e30597d802
Thank you, this helps a lot.
The way the last character is sitting it looks like how girls sit on railings it just has a feminine feel to it. I don't feel like I need to address the way the second character is posed it just looks like a dude in a skirt trying to act like a 12 year old girl. And the first character looks like they are trying to have perfect posture and their arm looks like it's pressing backwards away from a natural hang which I have seen girls do as well. Overall there isn't anything wrong with the drawings unless you were trying to be one over the other all male or all female.
The second one I recognized as female immediately, the first and third not so much. It might be the facial structure as the first & third had longer faces than the second. The first is a the hardest to pinpoint gender on but that can easily be explained as it’s not shaded/still a bit sketchy. Plus it looks like a ref sheet so it doesn’t need to look pretty, just what the character looks like most of the time.
Yes, yes, no.
Nooo why would you go to Reddit to ask a question like this
No but dont change them. Fuck binary standards. Let them look however you want without trying to make them fit a cookie cutter
Frick binary standards indeed. Continuing the cookie cutter analogy, I'm just trying different forms to combine them more flavorfully later. I doubt that the first one will change much for ex, maybe except for the face, I love the way she looks now.
Fuck fucking whatever standards you want before learning how to draw to express what you actually mean. I'd say draw a lot more people in real life, preferably naked instead of trying to do things from imagination. This will equip you with the insights into anatomy and the rules that govern the characterstics of human body-types. Then you can use your powers to protest any standard you can imagine. If nothing else, go out to a busy train station and draw people around you.
Feminine energy for sure
Any character can be a woman if you believe it in your heart to be so.
I guess, it's just that I want people to see them as women too, especially in comparison with cases were I make nonconforming or more masc leaning characters.
Yeah, it looks fine