Intentionally complicating a well understood phenomena with vague intellectual distinctions is a way of allowing the class war to continue by pretending it's something much deeper than greedy people stealing everything they can get away with stealing.
Kropotkin said something to this effect, but it was more along the lines of the foolishness of the intellectual class in providing ideas when bread was needed.
Everyone has a place in the social matrix, but if you want to pretend there isn't a class war, but instead something deeper, then you should spell out the deeper part.
Yes but isn’t class the poster child of intersectionality?
If you’re saying identity politics are required, that’s definitely true, but we still need to focus on solving problems that will benefit the majority of people in the shortest amount of time.
What about a war on those with power and those seeking it to be one the next oppressors? "Rich ppl bad" is as shallow as it is useful. The state has a monopoly on force and you are squabbling about money, something you can take from ppl by force.
Wealth and government go hand in hand though. Things like the revolving door and money has a huge political influence.
We need to seize the government and leverage it against the wealthy.
False dichotomy. Although the idea of "rainbow capitalism" and "liberalism" is fairly common, we have to understand thay the struggle towards social equality touches upon all aspects of society.
This is a common mistake. All forms of oppression and inequality are interconnected.
It’s always been really hard for me to feel this. What do I have in a “common struggle” with a fascist Trump supporter just because they’re also poor idiots? I fucking hate them, I don’t want to unite with them I want them to die in a hole.
So there are serious cultural barriers beyond just class.
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Yeah, but the part the left doesn't want to acknowledge is that a huge part of that culture war that we shouldn't be fighting is race-based, and the left is a massive driver of those racial issues that are distracting us from focusing on class the way that MLK wanted to do.
They’ll never see it that tho. They just wanna always be right and that’s what dangerous about people who refuse to acknowledge any of their wrongs. They’ll never change. The comment above yours shows just how crazy they are.
When we talk about not fighting the culture war-
Are we talking about giving up on racism, homophobia, misogyny, transphobia, etc.?
I agree that right wingers are being told to fight a culture war instead of a class war, but we on the left are stuck fighting both.
Start supporting people who respect consent. Stop supporting people who violate consent.
We can turn this class war around real quick but it will take giving up control over people. A consent based society would make slavery and corruption much more difficult then it is now.
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We just need to devalue the concepts of currency in exchange for labor and utilize the vast technological swaths being held behind classified access in energy and transport. Housing is a basic human right, so is food and medicine- we can automate both. The concept of profit and reward is predatory and Machiavellian. The real innovations in physics and space travel will only be realized by human minds completely devoid of stress aided by machine intelligence. If we want world ships and dyson spheres we need to allow the human mind freedom to wonder and dream without the spectre of war scarcity poverty et al.
These cartels of power and intelligence spheres of hegemony will never allow this to happen willingly. A species that feeds on and enslaves its own cannot thrive. The current societal models were built with warfare arranged incestuous marriages currency manipulation espionage clandestine action threat of MAD and forced scarcity.
Autocratic breakaway societies and hedonistic network societies have already written the proletariat off and are counting on using their blood and labor to turn the wheel over for another century of global war and trauma.
Pretty soon it is likely that this military corporate media complex in league with the intelligence communities will be able to dupe the lumpen proletariat and literati into stigmatizing a non existant threat from an outer world, a natural disaster, or both- in order to codify continued Hegelian dialect between labor capital and proletariat workers and small land and business owners by stoking the ever useful fires of fear and distrust which have in the modern age become conspiracy obsession with end times religious prophecy or alt right concepts of “traditionalism” or “feudal meritocracy.”
More nihilism will naturally be produced by the tree of academia if the culture remains heavily narcissistic and the accumulation of wealth remains the main drive of “ free market” societies who can produce the most productive intellectual properties. Escapism and disassociation will remain the main export via entertainment and distraction and the “celebrity” or “influencer “ will remain the noble class within such a model.
The reality is all these subsidized classified weapons developers are going to be put into position to create profit for their shareholders- be it through warfare or a slow strangulating release of paradigm shifting technologies that have to be released in a manner that the consumers and commercial market cannot utilize them in a way that threatens returns or status quos.
Society as of now is headed for a crisis of competency and conscience as the spokes upon the wheel of power in the halls of intelligence bureaus and geopolitical strategy are not replaced or restaffed and the rudder truly falls off the ship. A solar flare, a nuclear incident, or even something considered fairly benign like the development of a new narcotic or psychedelic research chemical can cause a massive global shift in QOL and COL that will be unmanageable by anything other than overt and violent means.
Personally I think warfare is likely the only answer as conquest and usury are the only things that have ever produced results for humankind. Despite our art and hifalutin self prescribed morals ethics and philosophy we tend to issue these in postfact or hindsight of the horrors that we engage in to continue the game theory experiment we see outside the window.
Accelerationism seems to be the only moral thing to do if you are of means, have access to compartmentalized or controlled technology, or a corporate board room. Trying to fix it by making it better from the base of the pillars of society is impossible, but making the entire thing collapse and tabula rasa restarting seems within the reach of humanity. The globe can support large swaths of agriculture expansion, we can mobilize an unheard of volume of human and robotic labor capital, and in the coming years the public sector will gain access to the probabilistic quantum computing used by military, nation state, and private intelligence breakaway societies.
The skilled 300 or so million people with futuristic and applicable skills can drive the global 8 billion number down with directed labor and education. We can cull the cultural practices and sexual activities driving over population and under employment and poverty by changing the very concept of what it is to be a human being. By becoming more harmonious and less driven by narcissistic desires of legacy and wealth or hedonism we can slowly yoke the human mind towards ideas of true wealth, infinite abundance, and never ending pioneering and endless possibilities by truly taking the inheritance of the endless universe patiently waiting above us.
Sustainable food, an enriching environment, and as little threat of violence or scarcity is the key to unlocking the cosmos and will be the cradle that the human mind/s who develop these technologies from their dreams and ambitions require to truly breach the stars and begin our journey into the great and infinite universe which is beckoning us to try harder. I do believe that is why we have so much strife- we sit perched upon a vista looking out into a world we can only dream about participating in and our very nature and the limitations of our doubts are the shackles that keep us on the ground.
Be well
“We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas! …… ……except the violent maximalist one that Just So Happens to very specifically and tangibly benefit the world’s worst people in the short term and only vaguely and abstractly benefits anyone left alive or free in the long term!”
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A class war? It’s the federal reserve. Stop the money printing, back dollar by gold, inflation is what is killing everyone except those who have assets
This is just economically illiterate. As long as worker wages grow with inflation, there really isn't an issue as it will just serve to diminish idle wealth.
That’s not really true though. To just grow with inflation means only the people at the top are benefiting from the *actual* growth. In an equitable distribution of wealth, wages would outpace inflation the way real growth does (during the good times, obviously).
You're being down voted but you have a very good point. Many of the examples through history of common people rising up against the ruling class had hunger as a powerful motivator. Keep people fat, unhealthy, distracted and unmotivated and no one will rise up against you.
Eh, class reductionism doesn’t get us anywhere. Its factual that black people are more policed and scrutinized by police than white people. Its factual that women are paid less than men. Its factual that trans people are experiencing 9/10 steps to genocide. The through line among them all is, of course, their class but its not what impacts them as acutely as the aforementioned marginalizations.
TLDR - class is important but if thats all you can focus on then you will have major blindspots
That’s a thing to keep in mind. MLK knew it when he fought for worker rights. There needs to be more unity than just “as workers” because the workers plight is very different and can extend past just work. The people who voted for abortion bans have made it that much harder for women especially considering how abysmal their leave can be. The people who make it a hostile environment for lgbtq members members by labeling them all as pedophiles will affect their struggle with work. We need to address the elephants in the room and actually find common ground because at this point, many are voting against their own self interest because of the cultural war bs and it’s in turn hurting everyone. Also we do need to address people pushing hate for profit.
I don't think that's what the sticker is arguing. It was likely put up for a general audience, mainly workers, who are being targeted by bourgeois propaganda. Think Fox News telling the working class their main fear is trans people invading their bathrooms or dumb shit like that, or CNN telling people as long as there are rainbow flags on products that trans people are safe.
Actually, class is not how most people identify or define themselves - that's why attempts to get people to identify themselves and their values solely along class lines either don't work or require force. It doesn't require an overarching 'they' manipulating people to have divisions and identities that are not based on class.
Many people within an economic class have drastically different values and identities.
There's also a false idea that everyone of the same class always has the same material interest.
Sometimes, what's good for some working class folks is bad for others.
Also, sometimes what's good for rich people is good for working class folks.
Anyway, leftwing populism not as bad as rightwing populism but is still bad, thanks for coming to my reddit comment.
Most people do identify on class lines more. A white working trump supporter has a lot more in common with a trans working person then they do with trump.
oh look division LOL
r/leftistsarestupid
Focusing only on class instead of intersectionality is like focusing on moving your legs to walk but you’re face down on the pavement.
Vice versa my friend
The greatest minority is the individual
Intentionally complicating a well understood phenomena with vague intellectual distinctions is a way of allowing the class war to continue by pretending it's something much deeper than greedy people stealing everything they can get away with stealing. Kropotkin said something to this effect, but it was more along the lines of the foolishness of the intellectual class in providing ideas when bread was needed. Everyone has a place in the social matrix, but if you want to pretend there isn't a class war, but instead something deeper, then you should spell out the deeper part.
Yes but isn’t class the poster child of intersectionality? If you’re saying identity politics are required, that’s definitely true, but we still need to focus on solving problems that will benefit the majority of people in the shortest amount of time.
What about a war on those with power and those seeking it to be one the next oppressors? "Rich ppl bad" is as shallow as it is useful. The state has a monopoly on force and you are squabbling about money, something you can take from ppl by force.
Wealth and government go hand in hand though. Things like the revolving door and money has a huge political influence. We need to seize the government and leverage it against the wealthy.
False dichotomy. Although the idea of "rainbow capitalism" and "liberalism" is fairly common, we have to understand thay the struggle towards social equality touches upon all aspects of society. This is a common mistake. All forms of oppression and inequality are interconnected.
LOL - MAKE UP YOUR DAMN MINDS!
It’s always been really hard for me to feel this. What do I have in a “common struggle” with a fascist Trump supporter just because they’re also poor idiots? I fucking hate them, I don’t want to unite with them I want them to die in a hole. So there are serious cultural barriers beyond just class.
[удалено]
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Yeah, but the part the left doesn't want to acknowledge is that a huge part of that culture war that we shouldn't be fighting is race-based, and the left is a massive driver of those racial issues that are distracting us from focusing on class the way that MLK wanted to do.
Uh all the left does is call out poor treatment committed by the other side So fuck all the way off with this dumbshit take
>a huge part of that culture war that we shouldn't be fighting is race-based That's too hard of a pill for this sub to swallow.
They’ll never see it that tho. They just wanna always be right and that’s what dangerous about people who refuse to acknowledge any of their wrongs. They’ll never change. The comment above yours shows just how crazy they are.
When we talk about not fighting the culture war- Are we talking about giving up on racism, homophobia, misogyny, transphobia, etc.? I agree that right wingers are being told to fight a culture war instead of a class war, but we on the left are stuck fighting both.
Start supporting people who respect consent. Stop supporting people who violate consent. We can turn this class war around real quick but it will take giving up control over people. A consent based society would make slavery and corruption much more difficult then it is now.
Now go vote for Democrat elites to vacuum up all of your resources.
What would you do?
Line them up against a wall. Politicians on both sides have failed.
Wow somebody tell Putin and zelensky.
Yup. Like Colt45, it works every time
Just tell me where to riot chief
Your own home
Israel because that’s who funds both sides of every conflict.
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Yeah because says you care like burning down private businesses…..
BLM will be contacting you shortly, it's an election season so they will need everyone.
We just need to devalue the concepts of currency in exchange for labor and utilize the vast technological swaths being held behind classified access in energy and transport. Housing is a basic human right, so is food and medicine- we can automate both. The concept of profit and reward is predatory and Machiavellian. The real innovations in physics and space travel will only be realized by human minds completely devoid of stress aided by machine intelligence. If we want world ships and dyson spheres we need to allow the human mind freedom to wonder and dream without the spectre of war scarcity poverty et al. These cartels of power and intelligence spheres of hegemony will never allow this to happen willingly. A species that feeds on and enslaves its own cannot thrive. The current societal models were built with warfare arranged incestuous marriages currency manipulation espionage clandestine action threat of MAD and forced scarcity. Autocratic breakaway societies and hedonistic network societies have already written the proletariat off and are counting on using their blood and labor to turn the wheel over for another century of global war and trauma. Pretty soon it is likely that this military corporate media complex in league with the intelligence communities will be able to dupe the lumpen proletariat and literati into stigmatizing a non existant threat from an outer world, a natural disaster, or both- in order to codify continued Hegelian dialect between labor capital and proletariat workers and small land and business owners by stoking the ever useful fires of fear and distrust which have in the modern age become conspiracy obsession with end times religious prophecy or alt right concepts of “traditionalism” or “feudal meritocracy.” More nihilism will naturally be produced by the tree of academia if the culture remains heavily narcissistic and the accumulation of wealth remains the main drive of “ free market” societies who can produce the most productive intellectual properties. Escapism and disassociation will remain the main export via entertainment and distraction and the “celebrity” or “influencer “ will remain the noble class within such a model. The reality is all these subsidized classified weapons developers are going to be put into position to create profit for their shareholders- be it through warfare or a slow strangulating release of paradigm shifting technologies that have to be released in a manner that the consumers and commercial market cannot utilize them in a way that threatens returns or status quos. Society as of now is headed for a crisis of competency and conscience as the spokes upon the wheel of power in the halls of intelligence bureaus and geopolitical strategy are not replaced or restaffed and the rudder truly falls off the ship. A solar flare, a nuclear incident, or even something considered fairly benign like the development of a new narcotic or psychedelic research chemical can cause a massive global shift in QOL and COL that will be unmanageable by anything other than overt and violent means. Personally I think warfare is likely the only answer as conquest and usury are the only things that have ever produced results for humankind. Despite our art and hifalutin self prescribed morals ethics and philosophy we tend to issue these in postfact or hindsight of the horrors that we engage in to continue the game theory experiment we see outside the window. Accelerationism seems to be the only moral thing to do if you are of means, have access to compartmentalized or controlled technology, or a corporate board room. Trying to fix it by making it better from the base of the pillars of society is impossible, but making the entire thing collapse and tabula rasa restarting seems within the reach of humanity. The globe can support large swaths of agriculture expansion, we can mobilize an unheard of volume of human and robotic labor capital, and in the coming years the public sector will gain access to the probabilistic quantum computing used by military, nation state, and private intelligence breakaway societies. The skilled 300 or so million people with futuristic and applicable skills can drive the global 8 billion number down with directed labor and education. We can cull the cultural practices and sexual activities driving over population and under employment and poverty by changing the very concept of what it is to be a human being. By becoming more harmonious and less driven by narcissistic desires of legacy and wealth or hedonism we can slowly yoke the human mind towards ideas of true wealth, infinite abundance, and never ending pioneering and endless possibilities by truly taking the inheritance of the endless universe patiently waiting above us. Sustainable food, an enriching environment, and as little threat of violence or scarcity is the key to unlocking the cosmos and will be the cradle that the human mind/s who develop these technologies from their dreams and ambitions require to truly breach the stars and begin our journey into the great and infinite universe which is beckoning us to try harder. I do believe that is why we have so much strife- we sit perched upon a vista looking out into a world we can only dream about participating in and our very nature and the limitations of our doubts are the shackles that keep us on the ground. Be well
“We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas! …… ……except the violent maximalist one that Just So Happens to very specifically and tangibly benefit the world’s worst people in the short term and only vaguely and abstractly benefits anyone left alive or free in the long term!”
Source?
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I can still see it
Sick Essay. I didn't read it but you have a lot of paragraphs there.
Source?
/pol/
reddits is where dumb people go trying to act smart. Pol is a place smart people go to act dumb.
A class war? It’s the federal reserve. Stop the money printing, back dollar by gold, inflation is what is killing everyone except those who have assets
Yeah there was definitely no exploitation or class conflict in the 1880s and 1890s. Something something cross of gold.
This is just economically illiterate. As long as worker wages grow with inflation, there really isn't an issue as it will just serve to diminish idle wealth.
That’s not really true though. To just grow with inflation means only the people at the top are benefiting from the *actual* growth. In an equitable distribution of wealth, wages would outpace inflation the way real growth does (during the good times, obviously).
who is they? class warfare doesn't work in a country were the poor people are fat.
Shows that you're wildly ignorant about how someone can be fat while poor. Want to try again?
You're being down voted but you have a very good point. Many of the examples through history of common people rising up against the ruling class had hunger as a powerful motivator. Keep people fat, unhealthy, distracted and unmotivated and no one will rise up against you.
Most ignorant comment ever!
Eh, class reductionism doesn’t get us anywhere. Its factual that black people are more policed and scrutinized by police than white people. Its factual that women are paid less than men. Its factual that trans people are experiencing 9/10 steps to genocide. The through line among them all is, of course, their class but its not what impacts them as acutely as the aforementioned marginalizations. TLDR - class is important but if thats all you can focus on then you will have major blindspots
That’s a thing to keep in mind. MLK knew it when he fought for worker rights. There needs to be more unity than just “as workers” because the workers plight is very different and can extend past just work. The people who voted for abortion bans have made it that much harder for women especially considering how abysmal their leave can be. The people who make it a hostile environment for lgbtq members members by labeling them all as pedophiles will affect their struggle with work. We need to address the elephants in the room and actually find common ground because at this point, many are voting against their own self interest because of the cultural war bs and it’s in turn hurting everyone. Also we do need to address people pushing hate for profit.
I don't think that's what the sticker is arguing. It was likely put up for a general audience, mainly workers, who are being targeted by bourgeois propaganda. Think Fox News telling the working class their main fear is trans people invading their bathrooms or dumb shit like that, or CNN telling people as long as there are rainbow flags on products that trans people are safe.
All those things are intertwined. Capitalism and inequality needs to be abolished but anyone can truly have justice
So then give up the hateful cultures and give everyone rights and equality and watch thr class war not be needed anymore
Actually, class is not how most people identify or define themselves - that's why attempts to get people to identify themselves and their values solely along class lines either don't work or require force. It doesn't require an overarching 'they' manipulating people to have divisions and identities that are not based on class. Many people within an economic class have drastically different values and identities. There's also a false idea that everyone of the same class always has the same material interest. Sometimes, what's good for some working class folks is bad for others. Also, sometimes what's good for rich people is good for working class folks. Anyway, leftwing populism not as bad as rightwing populism but is still bad, thanks for coming to my reddit comment.
Most people do identify on class lines more. A white working trump supporter has a lot more in common with a trans working person then they do with trump.
Not in terms of self identity.
We're never getting socialism lol
Tankies are so cringe.
Lmao
If you guys let us win the culture war, we will join you in the class war.
How do you plan on winning a culture war without class struggle?
Race=Class unless you are white
Nigerian Americans are the most educated ethnicity in the US on avg
No. Per capita Asians are the richest.
No it doesn’t
OK? And what about the white who wanna fight too?
Wdym?
He means he’d rather not work with white people to stick it to the wealthy controlling our government… … aka he’s part of the problem.