Classic wage theft. the most common kind. they are goofing the divisions they use to count time. cutting even tiny percentages from everyones shift add up. they are just being, overzealous about it, to say the least.
In high school i had this goddamn manager who would lose his shit i failed to scrape out the last 100 grams of cole slaw from the prep tub.
“It adds up, bud”, he would say.
He didn’t have the same philosophy when it came to demanding everyone arrive 5 min before their shift 5 days a week. That job calculated on the 7.5 min scale: if you worked 1 to 2:07, you got paid for a hour. If you worked 1 to 2:08 you got paid for 1.25 hours, etc). So clocking in 5 min early 5 days a week = a half hour labor for freeee.
Homie *did not* appreciate me parroting in his voice “it adds up, bud” when i refused to clock in until the very minute of my shift. Lucky i was mildly competent in a restaurant full of idiots, so i was allowed a small amount of sass
You forget we use the metric system when we make fun of every other country for using it and never being to the moon. Then again 14 sounds way more impressive than 5.5 for the average so they may be onto something
Haha yup, basically. Also food math in a lot of professional kitchens. It wasn’t totally shocking when it dawned on me many years ago that costing out a plate of food and a bag of weed are the same process essentially.
I recently found out that for 8 years this was being done, I calculated out how much it was and it broke down to be close to $8k in loss.
Still working with HR....
Edit: so I know HR is not my friend the only hang up in my situation is that my manager who approved and alter my time sheets is not longer working with the company so it is taking more time to iron out than if they were.
If anything I take it to HR first, then the labor board, that way it looks like I made an attempt to have the company resolve the issue, and makes for a better case in my favor.
Just understand this takes longer.
I think there’s a requirement that they make it fair. Like before 615 gets rounded to 6. After 615 gets rounded to 630. I’ve worked for an employer who did it that way, and it’s what I think I found.
My job does this. They chewed almost everyone out when we kinda found out and would clock in before it rounded up and we were getting a few extra OT hours for nothin lol
I think this is beyond rounding shenanigans. It looks like the system is on 15 minute increments. If it were unfavorable rounding, the employee would have gotten paid to 11:15 not 11:00.
This looks like "no unauthorized time outside of your scheduled shift" regardless of what you actually work which is another very common type of wage theft.
UPS is a huge offender with this. I worked there with my dad for a holiday season rush one year and they would pull this exact shit. My dad told me to keep track of when I would punch in/out, so every time I did I took a picture of the punch in screen as well as a small logbook of the difference in unpaid time. On my last day I went to my supervisor with the logbook and photo evidence and said there’s gonna be a big problem if I don’t receive my pay for this added up time. They ended up direct depositing an additional check for me.
Why is rounding allowed in general? The maths are not that difficult, and its not like we cant just automate it? Automating rounding is literally more effort?
Rounding used to be allowed when payroll was done by hand & before computers were on the job.
Now, rounding is no longer appropriate or legal.
Source: I run a lot of payroll.
Yeah, I haven’t seen rounding since I worked a job with an actual physical time clock that punched paper cards. You had to add them up with a calculator. That was thirty years ago.
I worked at a place where they had 7 minute rule. Scheduled for 8? 7.53 or 8.07 was rounded to 8.
This is going to sound crazy, but they pressured everyone to arrive at 7.53 and leave at 8.05, 8.06 because 8.08 rounded to 8.15
That place was soul sucking. I've gotten almost $1800 from random law suits they've lost since I left
Not necessarily. In the state I live in, they are allowed to do this AS LONG AS their rounding system allows for extra time be added as well. In other words, if it rounds down to the nearest half hour on clock out but also rounds down to nearest half hour on clock in, then that is legal.
Wage theft for sure. Call the state department of labor. And take pictures of the card and the click. Most time clocks now use 2 decimal points for easy math. And in most states you only punch out for meal periods and that is it
You know, even if you can get back at them later, getting fired can be incredibly demoralizing. It's not worth it for most people in most cases. Making the official wage theft complaint is enough.
Exactly. My mom won her lawsuit against employer. But it took 5 years and after paying attorney she got $20k. She lost way more in the extra 3 years she didn’t get to work, and extra payments into retirement she didn’t get time for.
Good thing is last year they switched rulings a bit with illegal firing and instead of practical minimum. Aka I lost x wages they can sue for damages including legal fees.
Not saying it won’t still be pain in ass but depending on size of company and wage theft involved. You could also get whistleblower reward as it also unpaid taxes.
I know certain types of law are well known for getting an attorney to take a case on “contingency.” Meaning they only get paid if you get paid. Also meaning that some cases that routinely get dragged out for years, that means the attorney who takes it is bearing court filing costs and basically putting in time for years without payment. Employment law and medical malpractice lawsuits fit into that dynamic a lot. It puts an artificial layer of vetting into the system, in that attorneys pick the cases that they feel sure have a good chance. It also adds to the pressure to settle. I know that it’s not unheard of in law for some cases, I know divorce cases, or cases with frivolous lawsuits being used to harass another party (so punitive), that the attorney fees be ordered paid by other party. But it’s not automatic, guarantees, or equally common in all types of law. Here in the US I should say, if I hadn’t yet.
My sister is an attorney and one of the first things I came to realize after she graduated was this misconception about how easy it is to sue. It gets complicated in the obvious ways (have to have standing, be in the right venue, and it’s often more nuanced that lay people realize). But, like the go-to reply for a lot of really negative actions by the government or police is to threaten to sue. Did you know you need the government’s permission to sue it?! That was one of the first shockers for me. It’s called Sovereign Immunity, and while they allow it for certain reasons, there right off the bat is a layer of vetting for certain lawsuits. There is complications for things like what level of the court system things need to be filed at, things you as a lay person are very reliant upon attorney to know and handle and declare if they are not familiar with or sworn in at the federal level for instance. I am not an attorney and I don’t claim to be an expert. I know one of the rare instances of an attorney having consequences for doing their job badly almost always have more to do with financial mismanagement of client funds than the actual heart of the issue of competent representation.
Long and rambling answer to say, it’s complicated here and definitely not guaranteed to recompense the winning side for costs.
She was unhealthy. She actually passed in late 2022. I think they had an idea of how sick she was, they were purposely dragging out her case. The heart of her claim was being discriminated against because they denied her reasonable accommodations. Accommodations they offered to others, and that she would have been able to keep working longer with.
For real my case at prud'hommes went on for 7 years. 7 years of those a*holes defaming my character and tryna lie in court. I won. But goddamn moving tf on would have been better for my mental health
Yeah people are a bit delusional about how lawsuits work. They think that a wrong termination suit is a lottery ticket with millions!!
They don’t realize that it’s rarely that, if ever.
Ain't that the truth. Feels like most reddit comments are from someone who never left the basement.
Dream:
"OP, this will be a slam dunk. Goverment agency like X does not mess around"
Reality:
My town is so behind on everything that a neighboring town paid a law firm to mail every resident to let us know feces may back up into our town when they adjust the sewage flow to only accept what my town is actually paying for. Yeah, Agency X will be right on that. For sure.
Seriously, they think that our court system that takes years to try murderers will be easy and efficient for a civil case against a corporation with teams of lawyers (referring to US court systems).
Or even talked to a lawyer about said lawsuit...
I had a valid complaint against a former employer that I was targeted for an unfair termination *but* this was done during active layoffs. I did what we always tell people to do: go talk to an attorney. He was awesome, went well beyond the "free consultation" expectations. Reviewed my data, collected evidence (emails and one policy document), and current situation and then gave me the best advice and reality check possible:
"You have the OJ Simpson problem. Yes what they did was illegal, yes you have a valid complaint, but you will be unable to prove it to a legal standard in court. My advice is you go back to your HR Legal department and inform them of your concern, and that your attorney suggested you offer them a chance to provide compensation for your termination that is fair given the circumstances. Then if they offer you anything more than what you're getting as part of the layoff you should accept that and move on. I will take the case if you prefer, but I will not take it on contingency as I do not expect that we would prevail, and even if we did I believe the damages you'll get above what they'll offer you in the meeting will be mostly taken by my fees anyway."
The. Man. Was. Right. Basically I walked out of that meeting with an extra year's worth of pay and my office chair (custom ergo for my back, it was very nice). But more importantly he gave me a valuable reality check: You can be what feels obviously right about something and still not be in a position to actually win a lawsuit.
To OP's case just file the complaint with the DoL and expect to be fired for it, or quit working outside your scheduled shift (I suspect the shift ended at 11:00 and they didn't clock out till later).
I am currently going through a lawsuit. Sure, there's some stress involved, but my lawyer is handling 99% of the work.
Most companies (unless their lawyer is an idiot) will settle well before trial. It's rare that any case actually makes it to trial, only about 3-5% of them.
But they'll know who did it when they start investigating. In most instances that I've been in, they don't do a whole sweep of all employees unless they have numerous complaints. If it's one person, they investigate theirs specifically. That's how they handled mine in the past.
This is important. If you complain to the company, they may correct your paychecks. If you complain to the DOL then the company will have to fix everyone's paychecks.
In Texas breaks aren't guaranteed by law, although most places offer free 15 minute breaks. I know the laws in this vary from state to state.
But yeah the shaving off 25 minutes is illegal AF.
Yea I hear this advice on Reddit all the time. But has anyone ever done it? What are they gonna do? And either way you’re gonna lose your current job. Sure they should probably work somewhere else anyway. But calling the State will -maybe- get your place of work in trouble. And get you nothing.
If you do it anonymously they may not find out. One of my old employers (Teleperformance) got hit with it and they had to back pay everyone's wage that they stole. It ended up being a decent payout for a lot of people and they were pretty strict about making sure you got paid for when you worked after that. For a little while at least.
Had a pizza shop owner tell us we were required to work off the clock. 70% of the staff walked out that day. We all got unemployment benefits after appeal because that's illegal. Then the jerk had the nerve to not mail our W2's, said he wanted to "stare us down in person as we begged for them" (W2)." Reported him to the IRS and had to do a special filing. Last I heard, the state and feds were after his LLC, so he just closed it and set up a new one to continue operations. The government might try to go after them, but lawmakers create loopholes large enough to drive a dump truck through....with flying rocks.
About 20 years ago, I was involved in the class action lawsuit against Walmart because they were making us clock out for our 15 minute breaks… definitely collect the evidence.
The Werefrog remember when that happened (also worked there). At the store of The Werefrog, although we clocked out for the breaks, if we didn't go over the 15 minute mark, the pay was still on the paycheck. The Werefrog forgot at what minute it was counted as a lunch and as such unpaid, though.
The Werefrog watched the paycheck quite a bit and know how many minutes should be there every time. If a single minute was missing, The Werefrog made them pay it back. The third time in 3 paychecks, The Werefrog told them no more missing minutes will be reported to them. All future missing minutes will be reported to the department of labor. Not a single mistake for the rest of the time The Werefrog worked there.
To add onto this, a meal period is defined by *federal* rules as spending a minimum of 20 consecutive minutes of uninterrupted non-work time. Employers do not have to pay for that time. Different states have different rules, but that’s the bare minimum. Do NOT let anyone tell you that federal laws do not apply to your state, as federal is the bare minimum. Use federal laws as your guide, then look at state laws.
Also to OP, 15 minute breaks are not long enough to count towards an unpaid meal period. Minimum of 20 minutes and it must be uninterrupted. That said, an employer *can* pull you from a 15 minute break at anytime since you are being paid still. Each state is different though.
I don't believe that there federal government has defined what a meal time is, as the language says "typically lasting 30 minutes". Also, there is no federal requirement to provide a meal time - company can choose not to include one with no issues.
IF they decide to provide you a meal time, it can be unpaid as long as you are completely relieved of your duty. They can absolutely pull you out of it early, but it would no longer be unpaid. Different states have different rules, as well. Also different unions, etc
I’ve heard of rounding down from every 15 min, I think that’s not illegal (correct me if I’m wrong). But rounding down from every 30 min? That’s crazy but I feel like that going to be their excuse.
Rounding to the nearest quarter hour is the max rounding that is legal federally in the US, and it must, MUST be rounding both up and down for both clocking in and out, it can’t only be rounded in the employer’s favor. Another way to put it - they’re allowed to round for the purpose of making timekeeping simpler but not for the purpose of stealing wages.
We do 7 minutes at my company, but it is very well laid out and known. 1-7 minutes rounds down, 8-14 rounds up. We measure our time in quarters (.25, .5, .75). This rounding is automatic.
Any time adjustment done on an employee needs their consent/knowledge of the fact. Our rounding is mentioned at least 3 times in orientation materials that the employees sign off, but we also have Time Punch Adjustment forms that the employee signs for any adjustments done by management.
It works fine for my job because it's strictly schedule based (bus driver) so clocking in one minute early =/= one extra minute of work, it just means one extra minute of sitting around waiting to start my route.
Yeah I think the rule is that any rounding has to occur in a way where an employee would equally be able to benefit from it. Of course, if you arrive at 11:07 for an 11am shift, at the company I worked for you'd get paid as if you've been there since 11, but they counted you as late for attendance purposes. Too many of these and you could get fired for "grace period abuse."
Most states allow rounding so long as it is the same in each direction (clock in and clock out). There are also limits to how much rounding can be done.
Rounding down to the nearest half hour seems excessive, and the 4:45 clock in time shows that it isn’t rounding to the nearest half hour at clock in.
My old landscaping boss used to count 8h 59m as 8.59h. I don't think it was malicious, just big dumb. I started converting all my hours to decimals for him when I submitted my card and never had a problem again, ha ha.
That's a class action suit, baby. That's 2 years sitting in depositions and arbitration agreements. And you'll get a nice check at the end. I say it's worth it if you have the time and inclination.
These companies out there complaining about theft while wage thefting blatantly. Fuck em.
No. They can only round to the quarter hour and only in a way that either benefits the employee or benefits the employer and employee equally. Ie, if you punch in at 11:07 they have to count that as 11 but if you punch in at 11:08 they can count it as 11:15. If you punch in at 10:52, they have to count that as 10:45 and if you punch in at 10:53 they can count that as 11.
What they cannot do is always round your time down to benefit them. And again, they can only round to the nearest quarter hour, not half hour, and certainly not round down 25 minutes.
I worked at a place just like that and best believe I clocked in at the :07 and out at :08 both for the day and lunch so I essentially finagled 28 free minutes per day.
Indeed. They can round, but only to the nearest quarter hour and it needs to be in both directions.
OP, you might want to see if you have a legal aid office nearby that will help you. Otherwise look for a labor lawyer who might take this on. Ideally someone will help for free because they may be able to take advantage of fee shifting to recover their expenses from your employer if you win.
Be warned that your employer could try and retaliate. I would avoid saying anything until you have a lawyer.. And know that you are at risk of being fired for any transgression.
This is why I am thankful for the way my country does it, lawyers recover cost from the losing side so it means if you got a genuinly good case then its faily easy to find someone to take it.
If I clock in/out at 3:07 it gets rounded down to 3. If I clock in/out at 3:08 it rounds up to 3:15.
This is the way it is supposed to work. Although, people who abuse this system are often reprimanded.
Edit: The main reason I can see is because we earn vacation based on 15min increments of time worked. We are always scheduled on and off at a half hour time. The rounding helps keep things uniform and I've never been shorted time worked. There are over 2000 employees at the company I work for and no one complains.
Why is there rounding at all?
The clock keeps time, it can keep the exact minute.
It sounds like the clock is designed to cheat employees.
That shit adds up too, imagine this being a chain, where they have 100 stores 1000 employees, that could be millions of dollars in stolen wages, class action lawsuit shit.
Yeah this is wild to me. My store has to the minute punches. We get 45 minutes for lunch, but if you take 46 minutes it's not a big deal. You only lost yourself 1 minute on the clock and no one in management will care. Same thing if you're 2 minutes late. You can just stay 2 minutes later and make up for it.
I really don’t understand rounding in timekeeping anymore. Hell, the restaurant I just quit we kept our time on paper and we were paid to the exact minute. If I clocked in at 10:57 and out at 15:03 that’s 4 hours 6 minutes of pay, not 4 hours, nor 4 hours 15 minutes. Just pay me for what I work, no more no less!
But it adds up in the other direction. If I clock out at 7:09, I'm paid until 7:15. I'm not the person you're replying to, but this is how my job does it as well. That's what they meant when they said 'clock in/out'.
Federal rules allow rounding to 15 minutes but they must be fair and cannot favor the employer. So this is clearly illegal on a federal level. Some states are even more stringent, such as rounding to nearest 5 minutes. California doesn’t allow any rounding. Employee must get paid for every minute.
CA does allow rounding based on the ruling of the [*See’s Candy Shops, Inc. v. Superior Court (See’s)*](https://casetext.com/case/sees-candy-shops-1) court case. Currently CA follows Federal precedent, but that may change with the recent [*Delmer Camp v. Home Depot USA, Inc. (Camp)*](https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=9259834967178456601&hl=en&as_sdt=6&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr) ruling.
No, if you clock in a 315 that's when you clocked in. Why is anyone rounding anything. You are paid from the time you clock in to the time you clock out. Every minute.
Working in HR for a few years, I do have questions.
Was this an amended timecard, or was it something that showed up on your time clock when you punched out?
I can tell from experience both implementing/sunsetting these types of systems that some of them will respond to the moment you clock out internally and mark your time, but only present to you the scheduled time on your end from an employee to employee standpoint.
I'd follow most of the advice given and take pictures of everything, but also request a summary of your time for the week through your payroll to see if that reflects your true punches.
If it is the case that all systems show that your schedule only reflects what they scheduled you for and not your actual punches, I'd then begin the next steps of filing formal reports with your states labor divisions.
My previous employer paid us to the minute, no rounding necessary. There was a 5 minute grace period before you were flagged as late. Any amount of rounding is wage theft, that's total BS.
Ohh, look at how kind are they. They can log your breaks exactly, without rounding on your behalf.
And for wage theft, I could imagine it's easier to calculate with whole hours, but then you should be compensated later in the week with a generous rounding.
It’s all computerized. It can figure out .4 hours and convert it to appropriate wages automatically. It should show right up like that on the managers screen. No need for rounding at all.
I’ve had several where my paychecks would have a number like 38.607 hours or whatever the hours were. I asked my boss at the time and was just told, “idk the computer does it all.” Lol simple enough, I guess.
Is there any part of this that may be legal if OP was only scheduled until 11 and told to clock out at 11? But then proceeded to not check out until 11 25?
No, you can’t do that either. The employee would need to be paid for that 25 minutes. They would probably be reprimanded but you can’t take that time away either.
So if I work security late at night with no manager around and I stay at work hours past when my shift is done then clock out even though I was supposed to be done earlier I can get paid for that extra time even though it wasn’t told to stay late, had no reason to stay late, and wasn’t scheduled to stay late?
I’m all for calling out wage theft, but I think that shit goes both ways. There’s plenty of jobs with hidden after hours bullshit you have to go through before leaving for the day which may cause you to have to stay later than scheduled and you should certainly get compensated for that. However, I’ve worked tons of jobs where there was no oversight and employees would stick around and shoot the shit and forget to clock out on time. I don’t think they should get paid for their own mistake.
I’d be interested to know why OP was clocking out at 11:25 and if they in fact were working, if they were scheduled to 11, etc. I’m generally on the side of the employee in most of these situations as the employers frequently have the majority of the power, but if we want employees to be treated fairly, we need to make sure we are playing by the rules or we won’t have a leg to stand on.
I think you’re exactly right on all of this. To be clear I am specifically talking about people WORKING on the clock. Most definitely not employees commuting wage theft themselves or “time fraud”, where an employer absolutely has the right to change the shift end time.
If the work is required, the employee is clocked in and paid.
If the shift is required, the employee is clocked in and paid.
If the shift is over, and the work is not required, the employee clocks out or consequences.
Edit: changed “or” to “and”
My job has 15 minute rounding. You have to be careful when you clock in and out. It’s weird but it doesn’t do it for lunch only for start and end time. Are you using the clock correctly ? if you clock in between 2:53 to 3:07, it’s treated as 3pm
If you ar not getting paid for ALL th time you worked it's a labot law violation.
Whetheer it actually qualifies undr wag theft or some less serious offense is iffy
In any case the employer owes back pay
It doesn’t show anywhere where u clocked out at 11:25, who doesn’t say u clocked out at 11 and stayed till 11:25 to take a pic? Just asking I mean that page doesn’t show u clocked out it just shows a time is all
Bro I’m only seeing where it took half an hour out of your total hours worked which is consistent with a half an hour lunch break. Not sure what the problem is here…
This happened a while ago for me too.But I was aware of the quarter up and quarter down,so one day I had to leave a couple minutes early but waited until the 53rd minute.so I could get the full hour.I waited 2 minutes.Got written up for it.So I fought it.Explaining there own quarter up and down.They realized I was right and dismissed the write up.
My job does the 15.min rounding bs, but like previous posts mentioned tat can work in my favor and typically does. THIS though? Looks like wage theft to me.
I manage a business with pt hourly employees. I think it’s fair to give the employer the benefit of the doubt, that this was a technical error and bring it to their attention so they can fix it. We have this happen often (different time reporting system but a combo of human/tech partners) and we just go in on the back and fix it— not all employers are trying to screw their employees.
Depends on your employer agreement and your state. Some places round off to 15 minutes and it’s legal as long as it was spelled out in advance. But that doesn’t sound right.
This is the type of foundational evidence that can lead to a class action lawsuit that gets your whole company paid. Be a hero. Report it to department of labor.
Yeah. Get all of what you need for a lawyer to get a case together. DO NOT INFORM YOUR EMPLOYER WHAT YOU ARE DOING! Once your lawyer says that they have enough to go forward with your case, let them and the courts make your employer aware of the wage fraud charges being brought forth on your behalf. Until then, give them nothing to turn it around on you as a “Disgruntled Employee”!
NAL, but doesn't anyone not see the (2) 15 minute unpaid breaks? Js... It's not wage theft. My job has a 30 minute unpaid lunch to. I leave the office at 4:30 but my time clock says 4 when I clock out.
Dude Google it. If you work 5 hours or more, you are legally required to take a 30 minute unpaid break. They have their system set that way. It is also technically illegal to work off the clock unless you are a volunteer. So you choose your battle
Is the time you clocked out the time reported to whoever writes your paycheck? If not it’s wage theft I don’t care if it’s 25 minutes or 25 seconds. It’s wage theft show those pictures throw a shit fit and report them to the Labor department. They’d love a good old wage theft investigation.
this is why i quit working as a teacher at a daycare. looked at my time card and saw that they were chopping off the last 15 minutes of every shift i worked. i hate this so much
Email your state department of labor as well as the US DOL Wage and Hourly division. Include as many screenshots of your company ripping you and your coworkers off. If they’re doing this to you, it’s almost a dead cert that they’re screwing others over. Your employer is about to get a not so friendly visit from Papi Chulo.
Also they want you to clock out on your 15 min break? I wouldn't clock out for that shit just so they can fuck you on 30 mins a day, I get clocking out at lunch but never on a 15 min break.
Depends on local laws. If you worked at my company, yes absolutely it would be wage theft.
It depends on laws, union contracts and the like though. My company counts 53 as the hour and 23 as being on the half hour. Some companies will pay you to the minute and some backwards states let them essentially steal labor.
My advice is if you can, don't punch for your break. Steal the money back.
Nope that's illegal as hell. Job I had never bothered with rounding time. You get your check rounded to the nearest cent to the second to worked.
It was done to encourage people to come in a bit early to help with shift transitions.
My job will literally give you a write up if you get caught doing anything without being on the clock. Your job is literally stealing money from you. Go to your HR. There are random times where the time clocks will glitch and it will be updated on my profile that I can see on the work computers. If you guys have work computers where you can see past punches, put time in etc check there and if it’s not fixed go to HR.
OP when you clock in, take a picture when you clock in and when you clock out take a picture. Keep track of this. This looks like classic wage theft to me. Contact the DoL and work this out.
They are stealing 25 minutes from you everytime you clock out?!?! That’s a fuck ton! Sue the fuck out of them. I guarantee a lawyer will be willing to pick this up pro bono just for the amount of money they will be getting off this slam dunk of a case.
Just pull it up and ask the manager why you are not being paid for all time worked. He should correct it. If not take it to the next level. Playing with people's money is a no no and an easy way for a manager to get terminated.
Do this every day for 1 year. Then bring in the proof to an attorney. Be the lead plantiff in a class action.
Period. Your damages will be huge...and the state penalties can be staggering for underpaying employees and time theft.
Yes. I worked for a major insurance company that had to pay out millions in back pay because for years they had required call center employees to log in 5 minutes before their shift but not claim it in their time cards.
looks like its in 15 minute increments. after you collect evidence and call whoever needs to be called, clock in one minute late and see if it goes back to the hour. if it does, clock in seven minutes late. clock out one minute early, and if it sets it to the hour, clock out seven minutes early. then you get 14 minutes of extra pay and time a day, amd you get to say f you to the company. lunch can be exploited this way too if you clock out for that instead of it just being taken out automatically.
I did not know this was illegal. My job takes 30 minutes from us if we are an hour late and if I’m off at 7 and stay any time after I don’t get paid for it. Guess it’s time to go through my old pay stubs and send them an invoice.
Yeah.
Classic wage theft. the most common kind. they are goofing the divisions they use to count time. cutting even tiny percentages from everyones shift add up. they are just being, overzealous about it, to say the least.
Classic if it's under .5, just round down to 0. If it's above .5, round down to .5.
In high school i had this goddamn manager who would lose his shit i failed to scrape out the last 100 grams of cole slaw from the prep tub. “It adds up, bud”, he would say. He didn’t have the same philosophy when it came to demanding everyone arrive 5 min before their shift 5 days a week. That job calculated on the 7.5 min scale: if you worked 1 to 2:07, you got paid for a hour. If you worked 1 to 2:08 you got paid for 1.25 hours, etc). So clocking in 5 min early 5 days a week = a half hour labor for freeee. Homie *did not* appreciate me parroting in his voice “it adds up, bud” when i refused to clock in until the very minute of my shift. Lucky i was mildly competent in a restaurant full of idiots, so i was allowed a small amount of sass
I read "grams of coke" until I got to the slaw
Well it is the restaurant business.
Found the American. “Metic system is for drugs and bullets.” Ps: I’m also American.
You forget we use the metric system when we make fun of every other country for using it and never being to the moon. Then again 14 sounds way more impressive than 5.5 for the average so they may be onto something
Till you get to the really big bullets, then they go back to inches. Lol
Haha yup, basically. Also food math in a lot of professional kitchens. It wasn’t totally shocking when it dawned on me many years ago that costing out a plate of food and a bag of weed are the same process essentially.
People would rave about the coke slaw though..
So we are all recovered coke heads, right?
Oops, me too
It adds up, bud.
I mean, with how addicted I am to it, it might as well be
Is cole slaw even food?
Because it only worked in his favor. It adds up for him, or against him. He circumvents the latter.
Oh for sure. One day he gestured at the mandatory Employee Rights poster in the break room and said it would verify his 5 minutes early bullshit.
Satisfying story. I needed that, thanks.
It’s nice what you can get away with when you aren’t useless lol
I recently found out that for 8 years this was being done, I calculated out how much it was and it broke down to be close to $8k in loss. Still working with HR.... Edit: so I know HR is not my friend the only hang up in my situation is that my manager who approved and alter my time sheets is not longer working with the company so it is taking more time to iron out than if they were.
Screw HR, go to the labor board. It will be resolved quick, fast, and in a hurry
This. HR will do whatever they can to avoid paying you. The downside of involving the department of labor is the risk of getting fired.
And then you have a retaliation case. Win win
If anything I take it to HR first, then the labor board, that way it looks like I made an attempt to have the company resolve the issue, and makes for a better case in my favor. Just understand this takes longer.
I think there’s a requirement that they make it fair. Like before 615 gets rounded to 6. After 615 gets rounded to 630. I’ve worked for an employer who did it that way, and it’s what I think I found.
I worked somewhere that the divisions were 7 minutes. California, so it might be a stricter labor law or something
My job does this. They chewed almost everyone out when we kinda found out and would clock in before it rounded up and we were getting a few extra OT hours for nothin lol
This is the right answer
I’d have clocked in before, and out after the round up, and told them we could talk to the dept. of labor if they didn’t like it… fuck ‘em
I thought 15 minutes was the closest you could round to
Report their ass. They are stealing
They are cutting that payable time to under 6 hours so they don't have to pay extra for not giving the employee a lunch break.
I think this is beyond rounding shenanigans. It looks like the system is on 15 minute increments. If it were unfavorable rounding, the employee would have gotten paid to 11:15 not 11:00. This looks like "no unauthorized time outside of your scheduled shift" regardless of what you actually work which is another very common type of wage theft.
UPS is a huge offender with this. I worked there with my dad for a holiday season rush one year and they would pull this exact shit. My dad told me to keep track of when I would punch in/out, so every time I did I took a picture of the punch in screen as well as a small logbook of the difference in unpaid time. On my last day I went to my supervisor with the logbook and photo evidence and said there’s gonna be a big problem if I don’t receive my pay for this added up time. They ended up direct depositing an additional check for me.
Why is rounding allowed in general? The maths are not that difficult, and its not like we cant just automate it? Automating rounding is literally more effort?
For real! A computer can easily handle timesheets with seconds. It's a total farce to act like rounding is necessary in the modern day.
Rounding used to be allowed when payroll was done by hand & before computers were on the job. Now, rounding is no longer appropriate or legal. Source: I run a lot of payroll.
Yeah, I haven’t seen rounding since I worked a job with an actual physical time clock that punched paper cards. You had to add them up with a calculator. That was thirty years ago.
I worked at a place where they had 7 minute rule. Scheduled for 8? 7.53 or 8.07 was rounded to 8. This is going to sound crazy, but they pressured everyone to arrive at 7.53 and leave at 8.05, 8.06 because 8.08 rounded to 8.15 That place was soul sucking. I've gotten almost $1800 from random law suits they've lost since I left
This how my job is. But we are aloud to clock out at .53 as long as we make it here by .07
Not necessarily. In the state I live in, they are allowed to do this AS LONG AS their rounding system allows for extra time be added as well. In other words, if it rounds down to the nearest half hour on clock out but also rounds down to nearest half hour on clock in, then that is legal.
Wage theft for sure. Call the state department of labor. And take pictures of the card and the click. Most time clocks now use 2 decimal points for easy math. And in most states you only punch out for meal periods and that is it
I'd also suggest not complaining to the company about it. They know what they're doing. Just collect evidence.
If you complain, I'd suggest complaining in writing. Keep a copy. Preferably from your personal email. That way, you are protected if you get fired.
You know, even if you can get back at them later, getting fired can be incredibly demoralizing. It's not worth it for most people in most cases. Making the official wage theft complaint is enough.
Getting fired for whistleblowing criminal activity is a won lottery ticket that’s un-demoralizing
None of you have been in an actual lawsuit against an employer before and it shows.
Exactly. My mom won her lawsuit against employer. But it took 5 years and after paying attorney she got $20k. She lost way more in the extra 3 years she didn’t get to work, and extra payments into retirement she didn’t get time for.
Good thing is last year they switched rulings a bit with illegal firing and instead of practical minimum. Aka I lost x wages they can sue for damages including legal fees. Not saying it won’t still be pain in ass but depending on size of company and wage theft involved. You could also get whistleblower reward as it also unpaid taxes.
Do they not have to pay the court and attorney fees if they lose? Thats how it works in scandinavia atleast.
I know certain types of law are well known for getting an attorney to take a case on “contingency.” Meaning they only get paid if you get paid. Also meaning that some cases that routinely get dragged out for years, that means the attorney who takes it is bearing court filing costs and basically putting in time for years without payment. Employment law and medical malpractice lawsuits fit into that dynamic a lot. It puts an artificial layer of vetting into the system, in that attorneys pick the cases that they feel sure have a good chance. It also adds to the pressure to settle. I know that it’s not unheard of in law for some cases, I know divorce cases, or cases with frivolous lawsuits being used to harass another party (so punitive), that the attorney fees be ordered paid by other party. But it’s not automatic, guarantees, or equally common in all types of law. Here in the US I should say, if I hadn’t yet. My sister is an attorney and one of the first things I came to realize after she graduated was this misconception about how easy it is to sue. It gets complicated in the obvious ways (have to have standing, be in the right venue, and it’s often more nuanced that lay people realize). But, like the go-to reply for a lot of really negative actions by the government or police is to threaten to sue. Did you know you need the government’s permission to sue it?! That was one of the first shockers for me. It’s called Sovereign Immunity, and while they allow it for certain reasons, there right off the bat is a layer of vetting for certain lawsuits. There is complications for things like what level of the court system things need to be filed at, things you as a lay person are very reliant upon attorney to know and handle and declare if they are not familiar with or sworn in at the federal level for instance. I am not an attorney and I don’t claim to be an expert. I know one of the rare instances of an attorney having consequences for doing their job badly almost always have more to do with financial mismanagement of client funds than the actual heart of the issue of competent representation. Long and rambling answer to say, it’s complicated here and definitely not guaranteed to recompense the winning side for costs.
Why did she not get another job for 3 yrs?
She was unhealthy. She actually passed in late 2022. I think they had an idea of how sick she was, they were purposely dragging out her case. The heart of her claim was being discriminated against because they denied her reasonable accommodations. Accommodations they offered to others, and that she would have been able to keep working longer with.
For real my case at prud'hommes went on for 7 years. 7 years of those a*holes defaming my character and tryna lie in court. I won. But goddamn moving tf on would have been better for my mental health
Yeah people are a bit delusional about how lawsuits work. They think that a wrong termination suit is a lottery ticket with millions!! They don’t realize that it’s rarely that, if ever.
Also even if you win money, you still have to collect the money. That could even be harder, and longer(Twss), than then winning the case .
Ain't that the truth. Feels like most reddit comments are from someone who never left the basement. Dream: "OP, this will be a slam dunk. Goverment agency like X does not mess around" Reality: My town is so behind on everything that a neighboring town paid a law firm to mail every resident to let us know feces may back up into our town when they adjust the sewage flow to only accept what my town is actually paying for. Yeah, Agency X will be right on that. For sure.
Seriously, they think that our court system that takes years to try murderers will be easy and efficient for a civil case against a corporation with teams of lawyers (referring to US court systems).
Or even talked to a lawyer about said lawsuit... I had a valid complaint against a former employer that I was targeted for an unfair termination *but* this was done during active layoffs. I did what we always tell people to do: go talk to an attorney. He was awesome, went well beyond the "free consultation" expectations. Reviewed my data, collected evidence (emails and one policy document), and current situation and then gave me the best advice and reality check possible: "You have the OJ Simpson problem. Yes what they did was illegal, yes you have a valid complaint, but you will be unable to prove it to a legal standard in court. My advice is you go back to your HR Legal department and inform them of your concern, and that your attorney suggested you offer them a chance to provide compensation for your termination that is fair given the circumstances. Then if they offer you anything more than what you're getting as part of the layoff you should accept that and move on. I will take the case if you prefer, but I will not take it on contingency as I do not expect that we would prevail, and even if we did I believe the damages you'll get above what they'll offer you in the meeting will be mostly taken by my fees anyway." The. Man. Was. Right. Basically I walked out of that meeting with an extra year's worth of pay and my office chair (custom ergo for my back, it was very nice). But more importantly he gave me a valuable reality check: You can be what feels obviously right about something and still not be in a position to actually win a lawsuit. To OP's case just file the complaint with the DoL and expect to be fired for it, or quit working outside your scheduled shift (I suspect the shift ended at 11:00 and they didn't clock out till later).
I am currently going through a lawsuit. Sure, there's some stress involved, but my lawyer is handling 99% of the work. Most companies (unless their lawyer is an idiot) will settle well before trial. It's rare that any case actually makes it to trial, only about 3-5% of them.
You mean to tell me when I’m living paycheck to paycheck, lose my job and start legal proceedings with the company I won’t get paid out same day?!
But they'll know who did it when they start investigating. In most instances that I've been in, they don't do a whole sweep of all employees unless they have numerous complaints. If it's one person, they investigate theirs specifically. That's how they handled mine in the past.
Not to mention best time to find a new job is when you have one
On that same page, be sure to save these emails in private account. You don’t want to lose access to emails if they kick you out of the company email.
True. Edited my comment.
Yes, goto hr and get the policy spelled out, then goto the Dept. of Labor
This is important. If you complain to the company, they may correct your paychecks. If you complain to the DOL then the company will have to fix everyone's paychecks.
In Texas breaks aren't guaranteed by law, although most places offer free 15 minute breaks. I know the laws in this vary from state to state. But yeah the shaving off 25 minutes is illegal AF.
Man, states’ rights sure are working out well for you guys.
Yeah it's not great
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Yea I hear this advice on Reddit all the time. But has anyone ever done it? What are they gonna do? And either way you’re gonna lose your current job. Sure they should probably work somewhere else anyway. But calling the State will -maybe- get your place of work in trouble. And get you nothing.
If you do it anonymously they may not find out. One of my old employers (Teleperformance) got hit with it and they had to back pay everyone's wage that they stole. It ended up being a decent payout for a lot of people and they were pretty strict about making sure you got paid for when you worked after that. For a little while at least.
Had a pizza shop owner tell us we were required to work off the clock. 70% of the staff walked out that day. We all got unemployment benefits after appeal because that's illegal. Then the jerk had the nerve to not mail our W2's, said he wanted to "stare us down in person as we begged for them" (W2)." Reported him to the IRS and had to do a special filing. Last I heard, the state and feds were after his LLC, so he just closed it and set up a new one to continue operations. The government might try to go after them, but lawmakers create loopholes large enough to drive a dump truck through....with flying rocks.
Gets you backpay and I believe 2 weeks of pay until you sort out a new job.
About 20 years ago, I was involved in the class action lawsuit against Walmart because they were making us clock out for our 15 minute breaks… definitely collect the evidence.
The Werefrog remember when that happened (also worked there). At the store of The Werefrog, although we clocked out for the breaks, if we didn't go over the 15 minute mark, the pay was still on the paycheck. The Werefrog forgot at what minute it was counted as a lunch and as such unpaid, though. The Werefrog watched the paycheck quite a bit and know how many minutes should be there every time. If a single minute was missing, The Werefrog made them pay it back. The third time in 3 paychecks, The Werefrog told them no more missing minutes will be reported to them. All future missing minutes will be reported to the department of labor. Not a single mistake for the rest of the time The Werefrog worked there.
>And take pictures of the card and the click Like...the ones in the post you're replying to?
To add onto this, a meal period is defined by *federal* rules as spending a minimum of 20 consecutive minutes of uninterrupted non-work time. Employers do not have to pay for that time. Different states have different rules, but that’s the bare minimum. Do NOT let anyone tell you that federal laws do not apply to your state, as federal is the bare minimum. Use federal laws as your guide, then look at state laws. Also to OP, 15 minute breaks are not long enough to count towards an unpaid meal period. Minimum of 20 minutes and it must be uninterrupted. That said, an employer *can* pull you from a 15 minute break at anytime since you are being paid still. Each state is different though.
I don't believe that there federal government has defined what a meal time is, as the language says "typically lasting 30 minutes". Also, there is no federal requirement to provide a meal time - company can choose not to include one with no issues. IF they decide to provide you a meal time, it can be unpaid as long as you are completely relieved of your duty. They can absolutely pull you out of it early, but it would no longer be unpaid. Different states have different rules, as well. Also different unions, etc
That rounding is insane.
8h 59m✖️ 8h✔️
My thoughts exactly.
Wow will no one think about the manager who got a raise for proposing this cost saving idea?! He has to maintan a standard of living too you know!
I think the person that downvoted you missed the joke :(
I think the person that downvoted them was the manager
Still better than 8h 119m✖️ 8h✔️ (Hopefully my employer doesnt see this)
I’ve heard of rounding down from every 15 min, I think that’s not illegal (correct me if I’m wrong). But rounding down from every 30 min? That’s crazy but I feel like that going to be their excuse.
I've worked at several places (large companies) who rounded to the *nearest* quarter hour. So 11:06 would round to 11. 11:08 would round to 11:15.
Rounding to the nearest quarter hour is the max rounding that is legal federally in the US, and it must, MUST be rounding both up and down for both clocking in and out, it can’t only be rounded in the employer’s favor. Another way to put it - they’re allowed to round for the purpose of making timekeeping simpler but not for the purpose of stealing wages.
We do 7 minutes at my company, but it is very well laid out and known. 1-7 minutes rounds down, 8-14 rounds up. We measure our time in quarters (.25, .5, .75). This rounding is automatic. Any time adjustment done on an employee needs their consent/knowledge of the fact. Our rounding is mentioned at least 3 times in orientation materials that the employees sign off, but we also have Time Punch Adjustment forms that the employee signs for any adjustments done by management.
Same where I work. It works out fine because for every 9:17 that gets rounded to 9:15 there's a 9:08 that also gets rounded to 9:15
That’s nothing like I’m accustomed to. My time card is calculated minute-by-minute. There is no rounding.
It works fine for my job because it's strictly schedule based (bus driver) so clocking in one minute early =/= one extra minute of work, it just means one extra minute of sitting around waiting to start my route.
Yeah I think the rule is that any rounding has to occur in a way where an employee would equally be able to benefit from it. Of course, if you arrive at 11:07 for an 11am shift, at the company I worked for you'd get paid as if you've been there since 11, but they counted you as late for attendance purposes. Too many of these and you could get fired for "grace period abuse."
Most states allow rounding so long as it is the same in each direction (clock in and clock out). There are also limits to how much rounding can be done. Rounding down to the nearest half hour seems excessive, and the 4:45 clock in time shows that it isn’t rounding to the nearest half hour at clock in.
It's rounding down from 15 at start and 30 at exit (he clocked in at 4:45)
Love how they could still track the breaks with unwavering accuracy to the minute though
My old landscaping boss used to count 8h 59m as 8.59h. I don't think it was malicious, just big dumb. I started converting all my hours to decimals for him when I submitted my card and never had a problem again, ha ha.
Not time related, but similar. I had a boss that couldn't do fractions. If the tape measure said 4-3/4, he wrote 4.34. Dude....
This is illegal in like every state
Except Alaska, because time doesn't work the same way there.
It's crazy slow up there. It takes us a full year before they have one complete day.
In the summer it takes 3 months to complete one day.
That's a class action suit, baby. That's 2 years sitting in depositions and arbitration agreements. And you'll get a nice check at the end. I say it's worth it if you have the time and inclination. These companies out there complaining about theft while wage thefting blatantly. Fuck em.
You don't need to do all that. The department of labor will fight this fight for you.
No. They can only round to the quarter hour and only in a way that either benefits the employee or benefits the employer and employee equally. Ie, if you punch in at 11:07 they have to count that as 11 but if you punch in at 11:08 they can count it as 11:15. If you punch in at 10:52, they have to count that as 10:45 and if you punch in at 10:53 they can count that as 11. What they cannot do is always round your time down to benefit them. And again, they can only round to the nearest quarter hour, not half hour, and certainly not round down 25 minutes.
I worked at a place just like that and best believe I clocked in at the :07 and out at :08 both for the day and lunch so I essentially finagled 28 free minutes per day.
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r/theydidthemath
You didn’t get written up for coming in 7 minutes late every day?
This guy FLSAs.
If you come in at 3.25 for a shift beginning at 3, is it stamped 3.00 and without any other consequences for you?
No if I'm late by even a second it rounds to 15 minutes
That's *also* time theft!
Indeed. They can round, but only to the nearest quarter hour and it needs to be in both directions. OP, you might want to see if you have a legal aid office nearby that will help you. Otherwise look for a labor lawyer who might take this on. Ideally someone will help for free because they may be able to take advantage of fee shifting to recover their expenses from your employer if you win. Be warned that your employer could try and retaliate. I would avoid saying anything until you have a lawyer.. And know that you are at risk of being fired for any transgression.
You think its that easy to just get a lawyer. Especially if its a job you are worried about losing over small amounts of hours. Lawyers cost a lot.
This is why I am thankful for the way my country does it, lawyers recover cost from the losing side so it means if you got a genuinly good case then its faily easy to find someone to take it.
If I clock in/out at 3:07 it gets rounded down to 3. If I clock in/out at 3:08 it rounds up to 3:15. This is the way it is supposed to work. Although, people who abuse this system are often reprimanded. Edit: The main reason I can see is because we earn vacation based on 15min increments of time worked. We are always scheduled on and off at a half hour time. The rounding helps keep things uniform and I've never been shorted time worked. There are over 2000 employees at the company I work for and no one complains.
Why is there rounding at all? The clock keeps time, it can keep the exact minute. It sounds like the clock is designed to cheat employees. That shit adds up too, imagine this being a chain, where they have 100 stores 1000 employees, that could be millions of dollars in stolen wages, class action lawsuit shit.
Yeah this is wild to me. My store has to the minute punches. We get 45 minutes for lunch, but if you take 46 minutes it's not a big deal. You only lost yourself 1 minute on the clock and no one in management will care. Same thing if you're 2 minutes late. You can just stay 2 minutes later and make up for it.
I really don’t understand rounding in timekeeping anymore. Hell, the restaurant I just quit we kept our time on paper and we were paid to the exact minute. If I clocked in at 10:57 and out at 15:03 that’s 4 hours 6 minutes of pay, not 4 hours, nor 4 hours 15 minutes. Just pay me for what I work, no more no less!
But it adds up in the other direction. If I clock out at 7:09, I'm paid until 7:15. I'm not the person you're replying to, but this is how my job does it as well. That's what they meant when they said 'clock in/out'.
It's normal and legal
Federal rules allow rounding to 15 minutes but they must be fair and cannot favor the employer. So this is clearly illegal on a federal level. Some states are even more stringent, such as rounding to nearest 5 minutes. California doesn’t allow any rounding. Employee must get paid for every minute.
CA does allow rounding based on the ruling of the [*See’s Candy Shops, Inc. v. Superior Court (See’s)*](https://casetext.com/case/sees-candy-shops-1) court case. Currently CA follows Federal precedent, but that may change with the recent [*Delmer Camp v. Home Depot USA, Inc. (Camp)*](https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=9259834967178456601&hl=en&as_sdt=6&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr) ruling.
No, if you clock in a 315 that's when you clocked in. Why is anyone rounding anything. You are paid from the time you clock in to the time you clock out. Every minute.
while we're at it, since everything is digital, just pay me every week too.
What state do you live in where you don't get paid 10 or 15 minute breaks?!
That’s the only thing I noticed… Shouldn’t even be clocking out for them.
I’m fairly certain that Federal Law requires breaks under 20 minutes to be paid
It's a half hour lunch
Working in HR for a few years, I do have questions. Was this an amended timecard, or was it something that showed up on your time clock when you punched out? I can tell from experience both implementing/sunsetting these types of systems that some of them will respond to the moment you clock out internally and mark your time, but only present to you the scheduled time on your end from an employee to employee standpoint. I'd follow most of the advice given and take pictures of everything, but also request a summary of your time for the week through your payroll to see if that reflects your true punches. If it is the case that all systems show that your schedule only reflects what they scheduled you for and not your actual punches, I'd then begin the next steps of filing formal reports with your states labor divisions.
A bologna sandwich apparently does well in hr, well said
My previous employer paid us to the minute, no rounding necessary. There was a 5 minute grace period before you were flagged as late. Any amount of rounding is wage theft, that's total BS.
Rounding is allowed so long as it’s done in a way that either balances out over time OR is guaranteed to benefit the employee.
Depends on where they are, there are definitely places that do not allow for any kind of rounding.
That still benefits the employee
Always remember the #1 form of theft by an incredible margin is wage theft
Ohh, look at how kind are they. They can log your breaks exactly, without rounding on your behalf. And for wage theft, I could imagine it's easier to calculate with whole hours, but then you should be compensated later in the week with a generous rounding.
It’s all computerized. It can figure out .4 hours and convert it to appropriate wages automatically. It should show right up like that on the managers screen. No need for rounding at all.
Ha I never understood it. Every min-wage job I’ve had has always rounded at 15 min intervals. Even tho it’s entirely automated…. M
I’ve had several where my paychecks would have a number like 38.607 hours or whatever the hours were. I asked my boss at the time and was just told, “idk the computer does it all.” Lol simple enough, I guess.
Is there any part of this that may be legal if OP was only scheduled until 11 and told to clock out at 11? But then proceeded to not check out until 11 25?
No, you can’t do that either. The employee would need to be paid for that 25 minutes. They would probably be reprimanded but you can’t take that time away either.
So if I work security late at night with no manager around and I stay at work hours past when my shift is done then clock out even though I was supposed to be done earlier I can get paid for that extra time even though it wasn’t told to stay late, had no reason to stay late, and wasn’t scheduled to stay late? I’m all for calling out wage theft, but I think that shit goes both ways. There’s plenty of jobs with hidden after hours bullshit you have to go through before leaving for the day which may cause you to have to stay later than scheduled and you should certainly get compensated for that. However, I’ve worked tons of jobs where there was no oversight and employees would stick around and shoot the shit and forget to clock out on time. I don’t think they should get paid for their own mistake. I’d be interested to know why OP was clocking out at 11:25 and if they in fact were working, if they were scheduled to 11, etc. I’m generally on the side of the employee in most of these situations as the employers frequently have the majority of the power, but if we want employees to be treated fairly, we need to make sure we are playing by the rules or we won’t have a leg to stand on.
I think you’re exactly right on all of this. To be clear I am specifically talking about people WORKING on the clock. Most definitely not employees commuting wage theft themselves or “time fraud”, where an employer absolutely has the right to change the shift end time. If the work is required, the employee is clocked in and paid. If the shift is required, the employee is clocked in and paid. If the shift is over, and the work is not required, the employee clocks out or consequences. Edit: changed “or” to “and”
100% yes, you worked till 11:25 they robbed you of 25 minutes
Absolutely 100% textbook case of wage theft.
My job has 15 minute rounding. You have to be careful when you clock in and out. It’s weird but it doesn’t do it for lunch only for start and end time. Are you using the clock correctly ? if you clock in between 2:53 to 3:07, it’s treated as 3pm
Yep! Sure does, that’s altering a time clock.
I would say that it is, but I must also ask if you took a lunch. Many places consider that half hour (the exact amount not billed) as unpaid time.
If you ar not getting paid for ALL th time you worked it's a labot law violation. Whetheer it actually qualifies undr wag theft or some less serious offense is iffy In any case the employer owes back pay
Did you physically punch out at 11:25? At my place if you don’t punch out yourself the system clocks you out at your assigned shift end time.
It doesn’t show anywhere where u clocked out at 11:25, who doesn’t say u clocked out at 11 and stayed till 11:25 to take a pic? Just asking I mean that page doesn’t show u clocked out it just shows a time is all
Bro I’m only seeing where it took half an hour out of your total hours worked which is consistent with a half an hour lunch break. Not sure what the problem is here…
This happened a while ago for me too.But I was aware of the quarter up and quarter down,so one day I had to leave a couple minutes early but waited until the 53rd minute.so I could get the full hour.I waited 2 minutes.Got written up for it.So I fought it.Explaining there own quarter up and down.They realized I was right and dismissed the write up.
Yup. That's wage theft
My job does the 15.min rounding bs, but like previous posts mentioned tat can work in my favor and typically does. THIS though? Looks like wage theft to me.
Very illegal
yes
I manage a business with pt hourly employees. I think it’s fair to give the employer the benefit of the doubt, that this was a technical error and bring it to their attention so they can fix it. We have this happen often (different time reporting system but a combo of human/tech partners) and we just go in on the back and fix it— not all employers are trying to screw their employees.
Your manager probably changed it because they’re getting bitched at for people going over? Definitely bring it up because that’s shady AF.
Depends on your employer agreement and your state. Some places round off to 15 minutes and it’s legal as long as it was spelled out in advance. But that doesn’t sound right.
This is the type of foundational evidence that can lead to a class action lawsuit that gets your whole company paid. Be a hero. Report it to department of labor.
Yeah. Get all of what you need for a lawyer to get a case together. DO NOT INFORM YOUR EMPLOYER WHAT YOU ARE DOING! Once your lawyer says that they have enough to go forward with your case, let them and the courts make your employer aware of the wage fraud charges being brought forth on your behalf. Until then, give them nothing to turn it around on you as a “Disgruntled Employee”!
Yes this is wage theft. You and your coworkers are probably owed a lot of money.
Yes
Yup, that's illegal and you may be entitlement to compensation > You need to call Saul n shiz
Yep report to wage and hour division in your state.
Yes.100%.no doubt. Completely and definitely
This is why you always keep track of your own hours.
NAL, but doesn't anyone not see the (2) 15 minute unpaid breaks? Js... It's not wage theft. My job has a 30 minute unpaid lunch to. I leave the office at 4:30 but my time clock says 4 when I clock out.
What's your schedule? My employer requires pre-approval before being able to work outside or scheduled hours.
Dude Google it. If you work 5 hours or more, you are legally required to take a 30 minute unpaid break. They have their system set that way. It is also technically illegal to work off the clock unless you are a volunteer. So you choose your battle
Is the time you clocked out the time reported to whoever writes your paycheck? If not it’s wage theft I don’t care if it’s 25 minutes or 25 seconds. It’s wage theft show those pictures throw a shit fit and report them to the Labor department. They’d love a good old wage theft investigation.
Edit. Don’t complain to the company. Go straight to the labor department. Otherwise they can have time to cook the books.
this is why i quit working as a teacher at a daycare. looked at my time card and saw that they were chopping off the last 15 minutes of every shift i worked. i hate this so much
It’s wage theft only if you don’t have an ability to amend.
Email your state department of labor as well as the US DOL Wage and Hourly division. Include as many screenshots of your company ripping you and your coworkers off. If they’re doing this to you, it’s almost a dead cert that they’re screwing others over. Your employer is about to get a not so friendly visit from Papi Chulo.
How do you know you work at a crappy place? This right here. Go work somewhere else for Christs sake.
Also they want you to clock out on your 15 min break? I wouldn't clock out for that shit just so they can fuck you on 30 mins a day, I get clocking out at lunch but never on a 15 min break.
Depends on local laws. If you worked at my company, yes absolutely it would be wage theft. It depends on laws, union contracts and the like though. My company counts 53 as the hour and 23 as being on the half hour. Some companies will pay you to the minute and some backwards states let them essentially steal labor. My advice is if you can, don't punch for your break. Steal the money back.
Yes, call state dept of labor
I love how they track your breaks to the minute though! They obviously have the system to work in their favor.
Yes! And you worked less than 8 hours so your 2 - 15 min breaks are supposed to paid as well. Only actual lunch breaks of 30-60 mins can be unpaid.
Nope that's illegal as hell. Job I had never bothered with rounding time. You get your check rounded to the nearest cent to the second to worked. It was done to encourage people to come in a bit early to help with shift transitions.
My job will literally give you a write up if you get caught doing anything without being on the clock. Your job is literally stealing money from you. Go to your HR. There are random times where the time clocks will glitch and it will be updated on my profile that I can see on the work computers. If you guys have work computers where you can see past punches, put time in etc check there and if it’s not fixed go to HR.
If they are going to count 11:25 as 11:00, if you are supposed to start your shift at 5:00, show up at 5:25 instead.
OP when you clock in, take a picture when you clock in and when you clock out take a picture. Keep track of this. This looks like classic wage theft to me. Contact the DoL and work this out.
They are stealing 25 minutes from you everytime you clock out?!?! That’s a fuck ton! Sue the fuck out of them. I guarantee a lawyer will be willing to pick this up pro bono just for the amount of money they will be getting off this slam dunk of a case.
Just pull it up and ask the manager why you are not being paid for all time worked. He should correct it. If not take it to the next level. Playing with people's money is a no no and an easy way for a manager to get terminated.
Do this every day for 1 year. Then bring in the proof to an attorney. Be the lead plantiff in a class action. Period. Your damages will be huge...and the state penalties can be staggering for underpaying employees and time theft.
Yes, get a lawyer and start looking at hellcats
Yes. I worked for a major insurance company that had to pay out millions in back pay because for years they had required call center employees to log in 5 minutes before their shift but not claim it in their time cards.
This is the most common form in the service industry
looks like its in 15 minute increments. after you collect evidence and call whoever needs to be called, clock in one minute late and see if it goes back to the hour. if it does, clock in seven minutes late. clock out one minute early, and if it sets it to the hour, clock out seven minutes early. then you get 14 minutes of extra pay and time a day, amd you get to say f you to the company. lunch can be exploited this way too if you clock out for that instead of it just being taken out automatically.
I did not know this was illegal. My job takes 30 minutes from us if we are an hour late and if I’m off at 7 and stay any time after I don’t get paid for it. Guess it’s time to go through my old pay stubs and send them an invoice.
Could be. Or it could be an error. Bring it up and see what happens.