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I think it was the self-identification term in the '80s (maybe '70s?) for what we'd now call a non-medical trans person
But I'm no expert and gender identity labels from that era are famously difficult to translate into modern vocabulary
It was also a job description at the time. I remember seeing a program where a person was doing their real life trial. And during their real life trial she was working as a "female impersonator"
I don't even know how they thought they were going to prove that. I was very confident at my trial, telling them truthfully I've outed myself and since go by a male name and live "as a man" for over a year now, which was enough. It just occured to me after I left: but what if I wasn't? Were you following me around? What could have been moments, where I didn't "live as a man"? For a second I wanted to go back and ask the doc: "But habe *you* been living as man during the past year!!??" XD
Last time I checked, "female impersonator" and "male impersonator" were euphemistic terms for drag queens and kings... so they're giving you the option to identify as a drag performer? People used to sometimes identify as full-time drag queens before modern terminology became widespread, but this seems kind of... hinky.
Lol, I'm reading that like it's some sort of HP Lovecraft cryptid monster. Like "Listen dude, I don't know what 'Dave' is, but I just saw it eat a whole coffee mug in the break room".
I picked my name because it’s feminine in spelling but neutral in pronunciation (Raye, from the singer). Last year I went to an interview and the first thing out of the interviewers mouth was “with the name we were expecting a woman (I’m r/mtfbutch). I shrugged, but chuckled quietly. I got the job, and a few months in I came out her (my now boss) and explained everything here to her. She turned out to be cool about it, and asked questions to better understand. She’s a great boss.
I could probably go with male impersonator but that's only because I'm a trans woman who isn't out at work lol (but seriously it sucks and those options suck too)
It likely can be changed but it’s some long beurocratic process. At the very least, bringing it to people’s attention is a really important first step in order to see real action and change
I'm going through immigration to Canada and I've had to fill out the same forms for the FBI to get a certificate that says I'm not a criminal in the USA. I ended up looking up what the gender markers mean.
The same forms are used by police and the FBI to do research on criminals. So the police officer who got the fingerprints would fill it out with one of those options. When used for regular background checks, only male or female are meant to be marked. Nobody would mark "male impersonator" or "female name no gender given" on their own form. It's meant for the police use to use in investigations.
It's a bit limiting as far as gender goes, but I don't think it's intended to be transphobic. They may also just be older terms that nobody saw the need to update on a document that isn't used by the public much. I was told the best thing to mark is the gender that matches your government ID.
So male impersonator and female impersonator would be used to identify an individual as a criminal using cross dressing to evade the police?? Is that correct?
Yes, that is how I interpret it.
It should also be noted that the actual form that is to be filled out just has a box that says "Sex" with a single letter space to be filled out. It's in the instructions page that indicates that you should use M for male, F for female, G for male impersonator, N for female impersonator, Y for male name, Z for female name or X for unknown.
The fingerprinting card in question is the FD-258, the standard fingerprinting card for police departments in the USA.
Thanks for your insights on this - the options make a little (not a lot) more sense if someone else is trying to identify a person who may be "evading the law." In this context they were options in a drop down list that a new employee had to choose from.
These forms can be filled out digitally and even done with digital fingerprints printed on the card. It’s likely that the fingerprinting company just copied the options into the software they use to print the cards. It seems like a pretty big oversight to allow the applicant to self select things like “impersonator” or “female name no gender given” though. When I had them done digitally, the fingerprinting technician just filled in the info based on my passport.
Even for people evading the law it makes no sense imo. It’s already placing too much assumption on sex being inherently tied to gender presentation, and it doesn’t do anything meaningful to actually identify suspects. Aside from law enforcement being fundamentally white supremacist (therefore fundamentally transphobic because transphobia stems from white supremacy) it’s really silly to dismiss transphobia as “well it’s just how the system works.” Like yeah, that’s the point the system itself is transphobic.
It can be something police use in investigations and still be transphobic. Police use predictive policing algorithms in investigations and those are still racist.
Yep, this. I would almost guarantee it being used in mostly or entirely transphobic ways too given the history of police and their relationship to the trans community.
It's important for the forest service to know if you're a drag queen when applying to work for them. This is because if they run a background check and see your occupation listed as "slaying," they might mistake you for Geoff the Slayer unless they're aware you do drag.
/j
Are these meant to be third person descriptions, as in "suspect is unknown gender"? Or something one is expected to select for oneself?
In either case yes, they definitely do frame it as "man pretending to be a woman" and vice versa. It's not even clear if "male impersonator" is (in their mind) someone pretending to *be* a man, or a male who *is* impersonating another gender?
Oh in that case it's 200% transphobia. And even in that context, what kind of impersonator *admits on a government form that they're an impersonator?*
Spy, filling out their immigration papers: "Profession? ...spy. \[pause\] Wait, shit."
Unknown could be a valid option for the field, just not that use in self selection. It could be a mandatory field in general, and block progress if they were submitting prints with only partial information. Not good to show for self selection though
oh thats so weird! i think female/male impersonator were commonly used terms for drag queens/kings in the 70s? somewhere around that time. and because of the widespread transphobia of that time period i would guess it was used indiscriminately for all trans people. but i wonder why they're using it here. its definitely super transphobic to use that terminology in this day and age. i guess its possible they're still using an old list with archaic language? but someone definitely should have changed it.
The site itself is a third-party, but I've brought it to the attention of some colleagues within the USFS. It sounds like the third party contractor is also used for other government positions as well.
They’re almost certainly transphobic. However, as someone who is mostly in the closet I kinda like the idea of calling myself a male impersonator. It makes me feel like an undercover trans person. Like, call me Agent E
My 1st thought in reading the post was that Villsack has a thing about drag but it's definitely - at best - fucked up wording but I think we all know it's much worse.
Yeah idk the context behind "male impersonator" and "female impersonator" but they sure sound transphobic to me, it's definitely not up to date with respectful language at the very least
I am going to go against most people here and say it probably an old document that never got updated. I don't think there is a lot of people working or wanting to work for the forest department, so I would say it is not unlikely they still use the same forms from 50 years ago.
I could be totally wrong tho.
The USFS employs around 30k people full time and that can increase by 50% for seasonal workers each year. The form is from a third-party fingerprinting/background check service that other federal agencies also use.
The “male/female impersonator” terms sound transphobic as hell. A bit less so but still transphobic are the “name no gender given” options. To say nothing of the binary nature of all of these.
As a femboy, I GUESS female impersonator would fit me, but it shouldn't be conflated with being trans. Very strange to ask if someone is an "impersonator"
the term "impersonator"...... I got called a "male impersonator" AND "woman impersonator" several times in the past few years. I hate the term personally, makes my existence feel like a joke.
Agree with the other commenter that "impersonator" refers to drag, not trans folks.
That said, I'm pretty sure Forest Service uses Fieldprint. What was this check for? Do you have a copy of the form?
It was a background check/fingerprinting - I don't have the form (it was also done online), it was a colleague who recently switched jobs and brought this to my attention.
Found the original source for this language! It's from a biometric database built by the FBI, and a few placed match it to take advantage of the database. (The contractor US Forest Service uses that does this is apparently Biometrics4ALL, ironically.)
The original source document (which is about 20 years old) does in fact confirm this is referring to drag.
It seems very dated rather than actively malicious. I work with medical data for a living, and the database I primarily use called its race variable “color” until something like 2005. It’s impressive what kinda behind the scenes shit falls through the cracks.
they went from don’t ask don’t tell to ‘tell us if you’re a crossdresser of drag artist’
eta: oh I just saw ‘forest services’ instead of the armed services I thought I saw lmao. forgive me I just woke up
Being generous to a fault, it could be that they set up gender options forty years ago and now they are stuck with the terms, but have to use them to show they are complying with hiring policies.
This screams “straight people doing their best to be inclusive without completely understanding the community they intend to include”. I get we’re not aliens or anything but some people do try to get it and struggle
The word impersonator tells me one of two things: the person who wrote the form is over 60 or they were looking to make it easier to understand by older people. My great grandfather liked to dress in drag to entertain kids and annoy my great grandmother, every family member that remembers his drag queen era would call him a female impersonator and not a drag queen. Language changes but it doesn’t mean it’s offensive
So basically you can be male, female, a drag queen/king, or you don't know your gender.
Yeah, you're right, those being the only options is kinda weird.
Some straight cis person with zero LGBT friends or family was probably elected to script or word this cuz theyre they're the bi ggest fan of drag race in the locale. /S (kinda}. F,/M impersonator, isn't that what some pro queens call their role as an entertainer sometimes?
I mean if they're finger printing you and all that they probably found ya doing something you shouldn't like hooking up in the bathroom, could see that terminology being adopted or something for those types of things
Or wait background checks.... so to work for em.... yeah that's a bit problematic, could see it having just getting copied over from the possible crime fingerprinting if they had that first but otherwise yikes
The Forest Service fired an openly trans employee a while ago over a post with a gun in it (in response to someone posting with a gun threatening trans people) so I'm guessing maybe they're trying to deter other trans people from working for them.
I suspect that they are just reallyyyyyy old terms that they can't change for one reason or another. Something to keep in mind with government entities it's that most of them have very little control over the way they do things. Much of governmental bureaucracy is codified and not just the result of individual policy. Transphobic? Maybe. It could be that at the time they would've been progressive terms and now they're stuck with it until someone complains to their congressperson.
Unless the words aren't defined by the forest service and are the company's that does the processing, in which case again could just be really old words but probably far easier to change.
That's the government. It's had to be as literal as possible, so there are no misunderstandings. Impersonator is quite dry, and does feel transphobic, but it's more so that they know exactly what type of person you are, what PPE you will need, what size/weight you will be likely to carry/handle, how long your endurance is, and what will be necessary if you are injured. Think about it like creating a D&D character - different classes, by default, can carry/handle/equip things specific to their class, but they can often be modded. Reality is similar. Different bodies, by default, do/carry/handle/require different things. That said, any person can be modded. The government just doesn't like mods as it makes ordering, budgeting, and healthcare complicated.
Yeah, they should probably update those to not that, also if I'm gonna be called a "male impersonator" I'm going to feel like an alternate from the Mandela catalog
In my opinion we should just stop caring about whether you're male or female as a trans person. It seems like it confuses cis people to no limit. Maybe we should just go by the biological names of the body types. That means like "XX", "XY", "XXY" and such. Which would make me as a trans woman, a woman with an XY body type since I was born male(XY).
Thank you for your post, if this is a question please check to see if any of the links below answer your question. If none of these links help answer your question and you are **_not_** within the LGBT+ community, questioning your identity in any way, or asking in support of either a relative or friend, please ask your question over in /r/AskLGBT. Remember that this is a safe space for LGBT+ and questioning individuals, so we want to make sure that this place is dedicated to them. Thank you for understanding. This automod rule is currently a work in progress. If you notice any issues, would like to add to the list of resources, or have any feedback in general, [please do so here](https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/rdazzp/almost_new_year_changes/) or by [sending us a message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt&subject=Feedback%20on%20the%20new%20automod%20rule). Also, please note that if you are a part of this community, or you're questioning if you might be a part of the LGBTQ+ community, and you are seeing this message, this is **_not a bad thing_**, this is only here to help, so please continue to ask questions and participate in the community. Thank you! Here's a link about trans people in sports: - https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/shades-of-gray-sex-gender-and-fairness-in-sport/ A link on FAQs and one on some basics about transgender people: - https://transequality.org/issues/resources/frequently-asked-questions-about-transgender-people - https://transequality.org/issues/resources/understanding-transgender-people-the-basics Some information on LGBT+ people: - https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/quick-facts/lgbt-faqs/ Some basic terminology: - https://www.hrc.org/resources/glossary-of-terms Neopronouns: - https://www.mypronouns.org/neopronouns Biromantic Lesbians: - [LGBTQ And All](https://www.lgbtqandall.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-biromantic/) Bisexual Identities: - https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/understanding-bisexuality Differences between Bisexual and Pansexual: - [Resource from WebMD](https://www.webmd.com/sex/pansexuality-what-it-means#:~:text=Pansexual%20vs.%20Bisexual,more%20commonly%20recognized.) We're looking for new volunteers to join the r/lgbt moderator team. If you want to help keep r/lgbt as a safe space for the LGBTQ+ community on reddit please see here for more info: https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/swgthr/were_looking_for_more_moderators_to_help_keep/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Those sound like they are terms from the '80s
I think it was the self-identification term in the '80s (maybe '70s?) for what we'd now call a non-medical trans person But I'm no expert and gender identity labels from that era are famously difficult to translate into modern vocabulary
It was also a job description at the time. I remember seeing a program where a person was doing their real life trial. And during their real life trial she was working as a "female impersonator"
I don't know what a Real Life Trial is
Before the doctors would write off on HRT or any surgeries you had to live as your preferred gender for a period of time. Usually one or two years.
Yeah, you had to prove you could pass before they'd give you anything
Classic gatekeeping
you're only trans if you can prove you are :"))
Thank you, I knew that was a thing but didn't know that's what it was called
I think they just mean it wasn’t fictional?
I don't even know how they thought they were going to prove that. I was very confident at my trial, telling them truthfully I've outed myself and since go by a male name and live "as a man" for over a year now, which was enough. It just occured to me after I left: but what if I wasn't? Were you following me around? What could have been moments, where I didn't "live as a man"? For a second I wanted to go back and ask the doc: "But habe *you* been living as man during the past year!!??" XD
Yeah, even from before that. Like possibly a century before that. These terms are ancient
Last time I checked, "female impersonator" and "male impersonator" were euphemistic terms for drag queens and kings... so they're giving you the option to identify as a drag performer? People used to sometimes identify as full-time drag queens before modern terminology became widespread, but this seems kind of... hinky.
I wouldn't mind seeing [more of this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uSqH31b1ao) in the woods :D
Love them!
I knew it was Pattie before even clicking the link! Love her!
She spoke at the Oregon Governors Conference on Tourism this year
Damn didn't realize that was a video almost blasted my class with sound
"A real life homosexual" is so iconic
People in the comments were talking about boycotting the brand and one dude was like "uhh, who will I buy jackets from now?" lmao.
That was hilarious thank you for sharing that!
I loved the skiing one she out this winter!
At alyeska! ❤️
I didn't know where it was, but I probably watched it 10 times.
Oh wait no I think at Mt Bachelor
Lol, I'm reading that like it's some sort of HP Lovecraft cryptid monster. Like "Listen dude, I don't know what 'Dave' is, but I just saw it eat a whole coffee mug in the break room".
Go in with an androgynous name without giving a gender and watch their heads explode
Reminded me of the old snl skit "Pat" lol
Who did they date? Kris No, no, no! Before that! Terry (Always thought none of their business but pat will always win)
The US Forest Service meeting someone named Stick:
A person with an unknown gender enters the interogation room -what is your name? Says the interogator -Alex
I picked my name because it’s feminine in spelling but neutral in pronunciation (Raye, from the singer). Last year I went to an interview and the first thing out of the interviewers mouth was “with the name we were expecting a woman (I’m r/mtfbutch). I shrugged, but chuckled quietly. I got the job, and a few months in I came out her (my now boss) and explained everything here to her. She turned out to be cool about it, and asked questions to better understand. She’s a great boss.
They’d be put down as “unknown gender”.
I'm a trans male. Not a male impersonator so I'm picking male. The others don't make any sense
I could probably go with male impersonator but that's only because I'm a trans woman who isn't out at work lol (but seriously it sucks and those options suck too)
That's a great take for your situation! XD But yea...who they heck was in charge of the application pronoun situation? It's wild
Right! I'm trying to get to the bottom of it to see if it can be changed or not.
It likely can be changed but it’s some long beurocratic process. At the very least, bringing it to people’s attention is a really important first step in order to see real action and change
Yeah those are definitely transphobic
I'm going through immigration to Canada and I've had to fill out the same forms for the FBI to get a certificate that says I'm not a criminal in the USA. I ended up looking up what the gender markers mean. The same forms are used by police and the FBI to do research on criminals. So the police officer who got the fingerprints would fill it out with one of those options. When used for regular background checks, only male or female are meant to be marked. Nobody would mark "male impersonator" or "female name no gender given" on their own form. It's meant for the police use to use in investigations. It's a bit limiting as far as gender goes, but I don't think it's intended to be transphobic. They may also just be older terms that nobody saw the need to update on a document that isn't used by the public much. I was told the best thing to mark is the gender that matches your government ID.
So male impersonator and female impersonator would be used to identify an individual as a criminal using cross dressing to evade the police?? Is that correct?
Yes, that is how I interpret it. It should also be noted that the actual form that is to be filled out just has a box that says "Sex" with a single letter space to be filled out. It's in the instructions page that indicates that you should use M for male, F for female, G for male impersonator, N for female impersonator, Y for male name, Z for female name or X for unknown. The fingerprinting card in question is the FD-258, the standard fingerprinting card for police departments in the USA.
Thanks for your insights on this - the options make a little (not a lot) more sense if someone else is trying to identify a person who may be "evading the law." In this context they were options in a drop down list that a new employee had to choose from.
These forms can be filled out digitally and even done with digital fingerprints printed on the card. It’s likely that the fingerprinting company just copied the options into the software they use to print the cards. It seems like a pretty big oversight to allow the applicant to self select things like “impersonator” or “female name no gender given” though. When I had them done digitally, the fingerprinting technician just filled in the info based on my passport.
Even for people evading the law it makes no sense imo. It’s already placing too much assumption on sex being inherently tied to gender presentation, and it doesn’t do anything meaningful to actually identify suspects. Aside from law enforcement being fundamentally white supremacist (therefore fundamentally transphobic because transphobia stems from white supremacy) it’s really silly to dismiss transphobia as “well it’s just how the system works.” Like yeah, that’s the point the system itself is transphobic.
It can be something police use in investigations and still be transphobic. Police use predictive policing algorithms in investigations and those are still racist.
Yep, this. I would almost guarantee it being used in mostly or entirely transphobic ways too given the history of police and their relationship to the trans community.
That's weird ive only heard of drag queens being called female impersonators (by themselves). Literally never heard it in any other context
It's important for the forest service to know if you're a drag queen when applying to work for them. This is because if they run a background check and see your occupation listed as "slaying," they might mistake you for Geoff the Slayer unless they're aware you do drag. /j
Are these meant to be third person descriptions, as in "suspect is unknown gender"? Or something one is expected to select for oneself? In either case yes, they definitely do frame it as "man pretending to be a woman" and vice versa. It's not even clear if "male impersonator" is (in their mind) someone pretending to *be* a man, or a male who *is* impersonating another gender?
In this context, it was a dropdown list that someone was self-selecting as a new employee.
Oh in that case it's 200% transphobia. And even in that context, what kind of impersonator *admits on a government form that they're an impersonator?* Spy, filling out their immigration papers: "Profession? ...spy. \[pause\] Wait, shit."
Unknown could be a valid option for the field, just not that use in self selection. It could be a mandatory field in general, and block progress if they were submitting prints with only partial information. Not good to show for self selection though
oh thats so weird! i think female/male impersonator were commonly used terms for drag queens/kings in the 70s? somewhere around that time. and because of the widespread transphobia of that time period i would guess it was used indiscriminately for all trans people. but i wonder why they're using it here. its definitely super transphobic to use that terminology in this day and age. i guess its possible they're still using an old list with archaic language? but someone definitely should have changed it.
“Impersonator” sounds so unnecessarily aggressive
very sus
Wtf US Forest Service?
The site itself is a third-party, but I've brought it to the attention of some colleagues within the USFS. It sounds like the third party contractor is also used for other government positions as well.
impersonator? that’s feels very transphobic
Impersonating sounds like a spy… # INTRUDER ALERT, A RED SPY IS IN THE BASE!
A red spy is in the base??!
They’re almost certainly transphobic. However, as someone who is mostly in the closet I kinda like the idea of calling myself a male impersonator. It makes me feel like an undercover trans person. Like, call me Agent E
yes feels very much transphobic but i do kind of like unknown gender cause tf do i know
They’re really transphobic. Why not just have Male, Female, Trans Male, Trans Female and Other? “Impersonator” sounds so rude..
Woah
Tonight, on moar_bubbline’s Gender: Unknown! No but seriously, I’m a trans woman, I’m picking female. Wtf is up with some of these options?
I had a job where these were the options when I got my ID as well. It’s some antiquated federal thing that they really should fix.
"Female impersonator", "male impersonator" I'm sorry, WHAT? What in the early 1900's cisnormativity is this?
My 1st thought in reading the post was that Villsack has a thing about drag but it's definitely - at best - fucked up wording but I think we all know it's much worse.
“impersonator”?? that’s transphobic as fuck
Male / Female impersonator sounds like the option for skin walkers
Yeah idk the context behind "male impersonator" and "female impersonator" but they sure sound transphobic to me, it's definitely not up to date with respectful language at the very least
I’m failing to think of any way the impersonator ones could not be transphobic….as a biometric for background check especially
What the actual fuck
I am going to go against most people here and say it probably an old document that never got updated. I don't think there is a lot of people working or wanting to work for the forest department, so I would say it is not unlikely they still use the same forms from 50 years ago. I could be totally wrong tho.
The USFS employs around 30k people full time and that can increase by 50% for seasonal workers each year. The form is from a third-party fingerprinting/background check service that other federal agencies also use.
The “male/female impersonator” terms sound transphobic as hell. A bit less so but still transphobic are the “name no gender given” options. To say nothing of the binary nature of all of these.
As a femboy, I GUESS female impersonator would fit me, but it shouldn't be conflated with being trans. Very strange to ask if someone is an "impersonator"
the term "impersonator"...... I got called a "male impersonator" AND "woman impersonator" several times in the past few years. I hate the term personally, makes my existence feel like a joke.
male/female impersonator is not a gender.
Yeah I got a male name but unfortunately my parents didn’t give me a gender. Kind of sucks but that’s just the way it is
Agree with the other commenter that "impersonator" refers to drag, not trans folks. That said, I'm pretty sure Forest Service uses Fieldprint. What was this check for? Do you have a copy of the form?
It was a background check/fingerprinting - I don't have the form (it was also done online), it was a colleague who recently switched jobs and brought this to my attention.
Found the original source for this language! It's from a biometric database built by the FBI, and a few placed match it to take advantage of the database. (The contractor US Forest Service uses that does this is apparently Biometrics4ALL, ironically.) The original source document (which is about 20 years old) does in fact confirm this is referring to drag.
It seems very dated rather than actively malicious. I work with medical data for a living, and the database I primarily use called its race variable “color” until something like 2005. It’s impressive what kinda behind the scenes shit falls through the cracks.
they went from don’t ask don’t tell to ‘tell us if you’re a crossdresser of drag artist’ eta: oh I just saw ‘forest services’ instead of the armed services I thought I saw lmao. forgive me I just woke up
my guess is that they were progressive in the '80s or smth when they wrote the forms and no one has bothered to change them
As FTM, I’m pressing that “male” button. I’m not sorry that your data is now fucked.
yeah the “impersonator” parts are weird af
Um... impersonator sounds a little...
Female and male impersonator can be a job title...but...gender?
I would just say male at that point as a trans man (if I didn't nope out all together). That's really fucking uncomfortable.
What do they list if someone has a gender neutral name?
Being generous to a fault, it could be that they set up gender options forty years ago and now they are stuck with the terms, but have to use them to show they are complying with hiring policies.
Wtf
I mean, worst comes to worst? Ask your boss/whoever hired you "what do these mEAN???"
This screams “straight people doing their best to be inclusive without completely understanding the community they intend to include”. I get we’re not aliens or anything but some people do try to get it and struggle
nah, 'impersonator' feels like a very deliberate term to me. it's transphobic, either on purpose or copied from something else
The word impersonator tells me one of two things: the person who wrote the form is over 60 or they were looking to make it easier to understand by older people. My great grandfather liked to dress in drag to entertain kids and annoy my great grandmother, every family member that remembers his drag queen era would call him a female impersonator and not a drag queen. Language changes but it doesn’t mean it’s offensive
That’s fucked up tbh
Male and female impersonator sound very odd. I do like "unknown gender" though, sounds like a legendary pokemon.
There could be a person with a neogender relating to the Pokemon Unknown. They would literally be unknown gender, but they know their gender.
these most definitely seem weird and outdated
This makes me mad.
So basically you can be male, female, a drag queen/king, or you don't know your gender. Yeah, you're right, those being the only options is kinda weird.
It sounds like a very old form that hasn't been updated.
Some straight cis person with zero LGBT friends or family was probably elected to script or word this cuz theyre they're the bi ggest fan of drag race in the locale. /S (kinda}. F,/M impersonator, isn't that what some pro queens call their role as an entertainer sometimes?
I mean if they're finger printing you and all that they probably found ya doing something you shouldn't like hooking up in the bathroom, could see that terminology being adopted or something for those types of things
Or wait background checks.... so to work for em.... yeah that's a bit problematic, could see it having just getting copied over from the possible crime fingerprinting if they had that first but otherwise yikes
the fuck
The Forest Service fired an openly trans employee a while ago over a post with a gun in it (in response to someone posting with a gun threatening trans people) so I'm guessing maybe they're trying to deter other trans people from working for them.
Probably super outdated.
I suspect that they are just reallyyyyyy old terms that they can't change for one reason or another. Something to keep in mind with government entities it's that most of them have very little control over the way they do things. Much of governmental bureaucracy is codified and not just the result of individual policy. Transphobic? Maybe. It could be that at the time they would've been progressive terms and now they're stuck with it until someone complains to their congressperson. Unless the words aren't defined by the forest service and are the company's that does the processing, in which case again could just be really old words but probably far easier to change.
Yeah, the options are defined by the third party service and not USFS.
That's the government. It's had to be as literal as possible, so there are no misunderstandings. Impersonator is quite dry, and does feel transphobic, but it's more so that they know exactly what type of person you are, what PPE you will need, what size/weight you will be likely to carry/handle, how long your endurance is, and what will be necessary if you are injured. Think about it like creating a D&D character - different classes, by default, can carry/handle/equip things specific to their class, but they can often be modded. Reality is similar. Different bodies, by default, do/carry/handle/require different things. That said, any person can be modded. The government just doesn't like mods as it makes ordering, budgeting, and healthcare complicated.
Finally gender options for alternates
They are trying to be as inclusive as possible 😂
Male/female impersonator sounds like a slur for terminators 💀
impersonator? idk man that seems odd to me
Well, I guess I'm an unknown now
Sounds definitely transphobic to me
As an enby drag performer I fit into four groups! • unknown gender • Male impersonator • Female impersonator • female name, no gender given
Why do I find the male and female impersonator pathetically funny? Like playing a game of Among Us and you have to figure out who the trans person is.
Yeah, they should probably update those to not that, also if I'm gonna be called a "male impersonator" I'm going to feel like an alternate from the Mandela catalog
Yea.. they do..
In my opinion we should just stop caring about whether you're male or female as a trans person. It seems like it confuses cis people to no limit. Maybe we should just go by the biological names of the body types. That means like "XX", "XY", "XXY" and such. Which would make me as a trans woman, a woman with an XY body type since I was born male(XY).
Do you know what your chromosomes are tho?
What do you mean?
Congress. Blame Congress. It was likely buried in some bill back during Obama's presidency, or older, and has never been updated.
clearly, they forgot dragon and mermaid; otherwise the list is fine
Is there a fill in blank? Just write in “Apache attack helicopter”
I'm personally insulted that they don't have fae/faeself, or tv/staticself.