I've heard people who say, of trans-persons, that archeologists will classify their bones, if excavated, as their AGAB. I figure zombies might have a similar frustration.
Anyway, I'm a recently practicing, still learning, digital artist. I'm Byngaltiger on both FurAffinity and DeviantArt, if you're interested.
Background panel is art by https://www.furaffinity.net/user/whitefeathersrain
Last week at school we had a seminar on archaeology and bones specifically, we were even allowed to assemble a skeleton, at the lecture the expert and then explained how to classify a skeleton and actually there are probably several features that could speak for one but nothing 100% necessarily determine, so a spectrum. And the thought has lived the whole last week rent free in my head.
I took some anthropology/archaeology in undergrad (both are rolled into one dept at my school). What we were taught about human remains and burial artifacts is what made me realize how varied gender expression and identity is across time and space. It was a big, liberating "oh" moment.
They've literally found bones that show evidence of being trans based on funerary artifacts.
Like are archeologists assholes about it? Yeah, and often. But some of them are getting better and no fucking phobe2 is about to win on dictating that
I hate the skeletal argument especially because soooooo many skeletal remains have been misidentified and sometimes even argued over on which sex and/or gender the person was.
Like… the differences are not that obvious as people claim.
We already have articles like [this nonbinary person from 1000 years ago](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/09/1000-year-old-remains-in-finland-may-be-non-binary-viking-researchers-say)
Transphobics think the future is still going to be transphobic.
*beep boop*!
the linked website is: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/09/1000-year-old-remains-in-finland-may-be-non-binary-viking-researchers-say
Title: **1,000-year-old remains in Finland may be non-binary iron age leader**
Page is safe to access (Google Safe Browsing)
*****
###### I am a friendly bot. I show the URL and name of linked pages and check them so that mobile users know what they click on!
Absolutely. It's stuff like "the jawbones are a bit more angular", "the skull shape is slightly different" or "the hips are a bit wider and at a different angle than this other skeleton". There are plenty of people who don't clearly match these statistical averages or match one but not the others. It gets even harder with early humans where we don't have a big enough sample size to compare between different people. Scientists got better at this guessing game, but still far from perfect. There's only certainty about chromosomal sex when there's DNA to be analyzed.
And of course archeologists won't know my gender if I leave any remains that someone finds worth digging up. My bones are the same I was born with. And that's probably one of the reasons we don't know much about gender expression in centuries past. I bet my ass there were trans/NB people as long as there was some kind of societey with any kind of gender roles.
I don't even know why people try to use this against trans people. Like why will I care what gender they think I was when I'm dust and bones?? I'm supposed to live my whole life trying to be a girl because I'm scared that my bones are too feminine?
Chromosomes aren't 100% either. We're shaped by our genes, not our chromosomes. Specifically the SRY gene activates a bunch of other genes. The SRY gene is usually on the Y chromosome (but not always). Most of the other relevant "male" genres aren't on the Y chromosome. There are XY males and XX females and many other combinations.
As you pointed out with bone morphology, the reason chromosomes get so much attention is not because they are causal, but because it's an easier test.
I totally agree. People obsessed with hip angles and ratios are just another weird internet fringe group. Professional scientists have a difficult time sexing human remains because of the wide overlap between males and females. I particularly hate when the trope is used in bad faith, by people who are explicitly transphobic, which is what I was trying to highlight. Deliberate misgendering and dead naming is malicious and cruel at the core.
Also, with HRT your skeleton will change. To different degrees if you are getting HRT earlier or later in life but if you got puberty blockers and then started HRT good fucking luck trying to tell that skeleton apart from cis skeletons.
... Cis skeletons? Makes this sound kinda stupid huh.
For sure! I have been acquainted with several men (AMAB) who have gorgeous, shapely hips. I, on the other hand (AFAB) was told by more than one obgyn that I would almost certainly require a c-section should I become pregnant, because my hip bones are so narrow/"man" shaped.
It makes buying jeans super easy but I have not bothered to test their statements regarding pregnancy.
Yeah. It feels like cheating, but I'm still adapting from pen and paper to digital. When I purchase a drawing tablet, I'll likely overlay multiple layers, even if I still want to use Heroforge for ideas.
However, I haven't seen many people using it as a starting point. I feel a little more like a director than an artist, since I'm creating characters and posing them to get specific shots and poses.
Yeah, just trying to see how far I can push it, artistically and narratively. I like how quickly I can create basic blocking for comic panels. Eventually, I'll have a better tablet and will add layers in a paint program. Still learning...
So many skeletons get gendered by the things they were buried with. We had a lot of warrior graves, were people just assumed they were men. Turns out they weren't, probably.
Is the main reason people use this argument based on the broken cartilage piece in the pelvis? Like, the part that breaks when you get pregnant and have a child?
I am legitimately curious, that's the only way I can see someone identifying a skeleton as male or female, and even then not all females have children so the cartilage wouldn't be broken if it even still is part of the skeleton by then thanks to decomposition.
Like what actually is the difference between a male and female skeleton???
I'm no expert, but I have education in Anthropology. While there is a lot of overlap between male and female bones, the pelvis is slightly different in male and female humans, mainly because of big-brained baby birthing. Also, behind the ear, there's something called a mastoid process, which is a bump most often seen in males. But, as said in other posts, it's difficult to be certain, and even experts can get it wrong.
I've heard people who say, of trans-persons, that archeologists will classify their bones, if excavated, as their AGAB. I figure zombies might have a similar frustration. Anyway, I'm a recently practicing, still learning, digital artist. I'm Byngaltiger on both FurAffinity and DeviantArt, if you're interested. Background panel is art by https://www.furaffinity.net/user/whitefeathersrain
You made it too nice lol. After the guy did that if I was the zombie I would have ripped his head off, then said you have no brains.
Might as well seek out a bigger buffet...that guy wasn't worth the effort
Yep lol
If someone excavates my bones im haunting theirnass
Last week at school we had a seminar on archaeology and bones specifically, we were even allowed to assemble a skeleton, at the lecture the expert and then explained how to classify a skeleton and actually there are probably several features that could speak for one but nothing 100% necessarily determine, so a spectrum. And the thought has lived the whole last week rent free in my head.
I took some anthropology/archaeology in undergrad (both are rolled into one dept at my school). What we were taught about human remains and burial artifacts is what made me realize how varied gender expression and identity is across time and space. It was a big, liberating "oh" moment.
They've literally found bones that show evidence of being trans based on funerary artifacts. Like are archeologists assholes about it? Yeah, and often. But some of them are getting better and no fucking phobe2 is about to win on dictating that
Hah jokes on them I'm getting cremated
*takes a whiff of ashes * ah yes I smell Y chromosomes -some creep, probably
I never get when people say this. Like why on earth would I care, I’m literally dead
Well, in this case, she's....undead...(bad pun face)
Well you can't eat something that don't exist so yeah get out of there
I hate the skeletal argument especially because soooooo many skeletal remains have been misidentified and sometimes even argued over on which sex and/or gender the person was. Like… the differences are not that obvious as people claim.
We already have articles like [this nonbinary person from 1000 years ago](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/09/1000-year-old-remains-in-finland-may-be-non-binary-viking-researchers-say) Transphobics think the future is still going to be transphobic.
Yo that’s so cool!! I never knew they actually found proof of nonbinary people that long ago!
Native American societies usually have 3+ genders too so that’s also proof.
Yeah! That’s true, I just forgot about that, it’s called two-spirit, right? Sorry if I’m wrong
you are correct
*beep boop*! the linked website is: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/09/1000-year-old-remains-in-finland-may-be-non-binary-viking-researchers-say Title: **1,000-year-old remains in Finland may be non-binary iron age leader** Page is safe to access (Google Safe Browsing) ***** ###### I am a friendly bot. I show the URL and name of linked pages and check them so that mobile users know what they click on!
Good bot
Absolutely. It's stuff like "the jawbones are a bit more angular", "the skull shape is slightly different" or "the hips are a bit wider and at a different angle than this other skeleton". There are plenty of people who don't clearly match these statistical averages or match one but not the others. It gets even harder with early humans where we don't have a big enough sample size to compare between different people. Scientists got better at this guessing game, but still far from perfect. There's only certainty about chromosomal sex when there's DNA to be analyzed. And of course archeologists won't know my gender if I leave any remains that someone finds worth digging up. My bones are the same I was born with. And that's probably one of the reasons we don't know much about gender expression in centuries past. I bet my ass there were trans/NB people as long as there was some kind of societey with any kind of gender roles.
I don't even know why people try to use this against trans people. Like why will I care what gender they think I was when I'm dust and bones?? I'm supposed to live my whole life trying to be a girl because I'm scared that my bones are too feminine?
Chromosomes aren't 100% either. We're shaped by our genes, not our chromosomes. Specifically the SRY gene activates a bunch of other genes. The SRY gene is usually on the Y chromosome (but not always). Most of the other relevant "male" genres aren't on the Y chromosome. There are XY males and XX females and many other combinations. As you pointed out with bone morphology, the reason chromosomes get so much attention is not because they are causal, but because it's an easier test.
I totally agree. People obsessed with hip angles and ratios are just another weird internet fringe group. Professional scientists have a difficult time sexing human remains because of the wide overlap between males and females. I particularly hate when the trope is used in bad faith, by people who are explicitly transphobic, which is what I was trying to highlight. Deliberate misgendering and dead naming is malicious and cruel at the core.
Also, with HRT your skeleton will change. To different degrees if you are getting HRT earlier or later in life but if you got puberty blockers and then started HRT good fucking luck trying to tell that skeleton apart from cis skeletons. ... Cis skeletons? Makes this sound kinda stupid huh.
Also, bold of you to assume I'm letting my skeleton get dug up. Good luck identifying the sex of bone dust if someone is cremated.
That zombie will be dissapointed when she discovers he had no brain
Luckily, you can pretty much tell with some people...
[удалено]
"My one working eye is up here, jerk," said the sassy ghoul...
Women have many pelvic shapes. Some men have wider hips than me!
For sure! I have been acquainted with several men (AMAB) who have gorgeous, shapely hips. I, on the other hand (AFAB) was told by more than one obgyn that I would almost certainly require a c-section should I become pregnant, because my hip bones are so narrow/"man" shaped. It makes buying jeans super easy but I have not bothered to test their statements regarding pregnancy.
Is this a comic made via heroforge?
Yeah. It feels like cheating, but I'm still adapting from pen and paper to digital. When I purchase a drawing tablet, I'll likely overlay multiple layers, even if I still want to use Heroforge for ideas. However, I haven't seen many people using it as a starting point. I feel a little more like a director than an artist, since I'm creating characters and posing them to get specific shots and poses.
I like it I think it's cool!
I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed that. I love heroforge.
That guy kinda reminds me of Matt Walsh
He would have been like "Stop feminizing male zombie spaces"
Ugh... probably should have mauled him, then.
the zombie has more brain than the man
Love this
Thank you!
There are none to be found here
HeroForge based
Yo, is that HeroForge? :D
Yeah, just trying to see how far I can push it, artistically and narratively. I like how quickly I can create basic blocking for comic panels. Eventually, I'll have a better tablet and will add layers in a paint program. Still learning...
You did great!
Ope!, never mind he doesn’t have a brain
So many skeletons get gendered by the things they were buried with. We had a lot of warrior graves, were people just assumed they were men. Turns out they weren't, probably.
Huh, is that hero forge characters superimposed over an image background with a comic filter???
Yeah...I'm kinda cheating, but I'm just learning digital art and don't yet have a tablet.
NO IVE BEEN MAKING A COMIC WITH THE EXACT SAME METHOD I CAN DM YOU A PAGE. For someone like me it’s the only way I can make a comic.
Sure. I'd love a PM of your panel.
Is the main reason people use this argument based on the broken cartilage piece in the pelvis? Like, the part that breaks when you get pregnant and have a child? I am legitimately curious, that's the only way I can see someone identifying a skeleton as male or female, and even then not all females have children so the cartilage wouldn't be broken if it even still is part of the skeleton by then thanks to decomposition. Like what actually is the difference between a male and female skeleton???
I'm no expert, but I have education in Anthropology. While there is a lot of overlap between male and female bones, the pelvis is slightly different in male and female humans, mainly because of big-brained baby birthing. Also, behind the ear, there's something called a mastoid process, which is a bump most often seen in males. But, as said in other posts, it's difficult to be certain, and even experts can get it wrong.
Never eat any transphobic brains if you dont want to be dumb😉
They taste like chewing tobacco and male insecurity...