I always say "I can hide a gun in my attic. I can't perform a life saving abortion for an ectopic pregnancy in my attic".
I'm not a single issue voter and 9/10 of the issues I care about are clearly better when voting for blue candidates.
Really wish there were some viable purple options.
I'm the exact same way. I'm not a single-issue voter. I vote for the person who best aligns with my views, and advocate to them for the ones that we disagree on.
That's me. The choice between one party that I disagree with a few things on, vs another that I disagree with most things on - isn't a very difficult choice.
I'm in a purple state, but very red district - but regardless of who's in - blue or red - I make sure to write and let them know what I think on a variety of issues and concerns.
They have a registry of where the known guns are. Or were, since you can sell it (which requires an ffl) and move out of state, and they still think you own it.
That doesn't change my point? If you sell it to anyone in state, they know. Your only other option is to leave. They are now trying to change it to annual registration. There is no hiding it in the attic here.
My state also did a registry. Let's just say the compliance rate was ummm... low. Legalities aside, guns are out there and can be obtained if you really want one. I'm not advocating breaking the law, but some laws are easier to circumvent than others.
This is why I hate that things have become so polarized and divisive. Like we're never going to get a Democrat that can be openly pro second amendment and pro gun rights and we are never going to get Republicans to be pro-union ever again.
This is why I'm trying to advocate for my more left leaning and queer friends to make gun groups go to gun ranges just own a gun if nothing else than to just show the right wing that they are not the only ones that own firearms. Like I know they have this image of the blue haired leftist crying in the bathroom scared of the very idea of a gun. We need to dissuade them of that notion The only reason they engage so violently and so openly is because they believe that no one will retaliate.
I realize a lot of gun spaces are controlled by the right wing I mean for God's sake a local gun group in my area had to completely find another range because the range they were going to stop having them come because they claimed they couldn't constantly host them even though it was only 20 or so people coming about once a week. This same range hosts quarterly cowboy action shooting events that are regularly see hundreds of people in attendance and dozens of contestants but they can't handle a few queer people shooting handguns at their range?
And this also bleeds into the problem with right wing gun owners. They claim to be second amendment advocates but they act like they only want to be armed themselves and no one else gets that right. Which I know is pretty much how the right wing feels about everything but it's especially hypocritical when they constantly talk about an armed society being a polite society in that everyone should own a firearm but as soon as someone of color or in the LGBTQ communities starts arming themselves they're quick to go NOT LIKE THAT
California Republicans don't want to make exceptions for the mother's life being in danger? I'm asking because I really don't know and find it weird that they wouldn't.
I don't know about California specifically, but other states have made very dangerous anti abortion laws. My statement was more of a broad stroke to make a point on my ability to circumvent the changes each party is trying to make to laws that could eventually elevate to a federal level. Theocratic rule would change society way more than a banned item.
You can write politicians and tell them this.
You can vote for politicians that aren't overtly antigun in the primaries. You vote has much more impact there anyway.
If you live in a solidly blue state, you can explore 3rd party candidates. CA isn't going Red anytime soon, so the idea that if you don't vote for the Dems you're voting for a right winger doesn't hold up there.
I think that 30 years ago this would have been a tough decision, but now the way I look at it is vote for Democrats and they might take away some rights, vote for Republicans and they will do their damnedest to take them ALL away. If you think the GOP cares about gun rights, I think you would be mistaken, especially if you are any kind of minority.
This. Good lord. We know by now that gun laws aren’t becoming drastically more strict anytime soon. Especially with this Supreme Court.
But… We literally were a couple of right-wing dipshits having a conscience from this country not being a democracy anymore less than four years ago.
So there’s that.
You obviously don’t live in WA. Guns laws have been getting stricter every single year in the last few years and they continue to propose new legislation. It’s death by a thousand cuts here.
At the federal level? True.
At the state level? You might want to look up some of the proposed and passed state level gun laws and tell me again how they aren’t drastically more strict.
Flouting Bruen as “may-issue” states begrudgingly become “shall-issue” but now just get away with what they did before by justifying long application processing times (1 year + in CA in many populated cities and counties) and arguing in court that even with a licensed concealed carry permit they can still prohibit carriers from carrying in a majority of public places, to the point of trying to flip precedent on its head and make private business no-carry unless they post signage allowing carry in their business, is just a carry prohibition by a different method.
And that’s before pointing out all the different ways CA is trying to effectively price out the working class from firearms ownership (fees to acquire a license, fees to register the gun on top of background checking you twice, fees for the background check for ammo, fees for applying and renewing your carry license that go well above and beyond administrative processing fees, fees and licenses to even legally handle guns or ammo if you decide to become employed at a gun shop or sporting goods store) and finding more ways to raise the price, like how this year the current good idea up for proposal is to require annual fee’s to register all the firearms you own in CA, even if you are grandfathered in with firearms you owned before registration was required.
CA Democrats have made it quite clear that the only tolerable form of gun ownership is people owning the fewest, lowest capacity firearms available, and a distinct preference towards making firearms owned for self defense as socially unacceptable or potentially criminal as possible.
Golly gosh, what if you voted R at the state level, and D federally? It’s almost like there’s a very easy solution to your concerns.
Nevermind, a lot of these laws will work their way to Fed court or SCOTUS and not survive anyway. So, sure, in CA maybe you have more limited rights for a few years. In that time, going the other route, you might not even have a legitimate vote next election cycle.
A few years? Try going on three decades and not getting any better. If it took Bruen 14 years to come around after Heller v DC, I have zero expectations CA will ever actually respect people’s right to self defense outside of their home in my lifetime.
And losing a legitimate right to vote because of R’s running the show for a few years? Sounds like fear mongering more than anything else.
You seem to be very much a pompous, arrogant, unpleasant person. User you've been talking to has had solid points and been respectful. And you've been a jerk.
The entirety of the last comment you responded to before I commented. And plenty of other points before. You are very smart and obviously know better, and golly gee Dems certainly care a whole bunch, so much so that they absolutely make all the change they constantly promise, oh boy! They don't make any money off the divide and maintaining the status quo, no sir-ee! Jeez louise they just do so much good. We're not brainwashed into us-vs-them bullshit while they laugh all the way to the bank from all the lobbyists' money, no way, no how!
Thanks for calling me a peach, it means so much to me that such an esteemed, wise member of our society thinks highly of me!
Just kidding, you're a dick.
Eta: their posts were removed it seems, but homie said things like "golly gee" to be condescending when they thought they were making a point. I swear I don't actually communicate like this lol.
This post is too uncivil, and has been removed. Please attack ideas, not people.
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And I have to commend your flair for the dramatic; the Democrat’s arguments that democracy is under threat by the Republican’s since 2016 sounds no different than the Republicans arguing the same thing for even longer. It’s simply more evidence both parties want to continue the “us vs them” approach that both parties can’t seem to do anything else but pour more fuel onto the fire since the Clinton years.
In a blue state Republicans realistically aren't going to take your rights unless somehow one makes governor or they get a majority in state senate (not happening in California). Meanwhile a strong Democrat majority absolutely will result in you losing 2A rights.
There are plenty of places on the internet to post anti-liberal / anti-leftist sentiments; [this sub is not one of them](/r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/intro/illiberal).
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Seriously, how is our country so dumb that this is even a question? Hmm, there’s the party that has tried and mostly failed to put some limits on guns… And then there’s the folks who want take all your rights away and build some sort of fascist theocracy, where you don’t get a *vote,* let alone a *gun.*
Gee willikers, how do I choose!
Right leaning gun owners are somehow under the impression that guns won't be touched after every other right is stripped away.
I talk to so many and lay out single-payer healthcare, taxing the wealthy who don't pay taxes, and personal freedoms (i.e. self determination as to whom someone can marry/love and not living by another religion's rules) and they all agree with them. Until you say "that is what Democrats are trying to put in place and uphold". Their eyes glaze over and they shout "but muh gunz" as if everything else is secondary. They can't grasp that our rights as individuals are one giant concept instead of spread out piecemeal.
Hahaha, I know, man.
"I mean...I like not being forced to live by Old Testament laws, and being able to at least vote in elections and publicly talk shit about our idiotic political leaders. And not having my house raided by some secret law enforcement group is real nice, and all...
...but..."
Came here to say something similar. Right wing 2a advocates are so myopic they deserve what ever they get. Sadly we get it too if we can’t out vote them. The far right is the reason some of us bought guns to begin with. Then we shot the guns and bought another. And another. And yet another.
Just because people don't want to vote for a Democrat it doesn't mean they are going to vote for a Republican.
And yes, I know that FPTP makes third parties nonviable.
Never said anything about not voting, and no, they aren’t the same thing. If you’ve found yourself in a place where you find voting for either candidate to be morally objectionable and you can’t in good conscience vote for either of them, you can still vote for someone else.
The problem for younger voters/gun owners is we already don’t have healthcare,education,housing and won’t for anytime ~~soon~~ ever. Thats before we get into the consequences of Climate Change.
The reality we see is more or less of delaying the inevitable. Not saying that is fact but hell, I’m having less examples to provide on why we should trust the Dem’s batting average.
Until the DNC wants to admit guns & gun owners of all creeds aren’t going anywhere in the US. Future & current left-wing gun owning voters are stuck with the choices, keep the right I have to protect my other constitutional freedoms or give up the one to make it easier to control me?
Yeah, I don’t know where the consternation comes from. It’s pretty obvious from my perspective. One party is openly flirting with fascism. Any criteria besides making sure we don’t elect fascists are lower on the priority list.
Vote blue. No brainer.
Does anyone really think fascists won't take guns away from the people they deem "unworthy"? They're hypocrites on literally every other thing they stand for, but they'll just let the undesirables still own guns? This isn't even a choice IMO, one party actively tries to take away basic human rights, while threatening that "the other guys are coming fur yur guns" for the last 40+ years.
edit: spelling are hard
The right to health care, education, women’s choice in what to do with their own bodies, want me to go on?
If you don’t believe these things are basic human rights, go FAFO in Russia/China
Katie porter is the goat for sure. You hate opioids on the street? You hate that jobs don’t pay enough for single parents? You hate corporate consolidation? She’s been at the forefront of reaming CEO’s, and those responsible for most of the ills in America. That’s my two cents.
As others have said here… the choice is between democrats who may try to enact legislation with a goal of reducing gun violence (*trying to help*) or vote for cultist idiots who are part of the party who tried to overthrow our democracy.
Sounds like a tough choice …
Honestly, I've come to the conclusion that gun control, at least on the federal level, is more political theater than anything. If Democrats really cared about lobbying groups like the NRA, they would've introduced legislation for that a long time ago. But to do so would also leave them without lobbyists lining their pockets as well as get rid of their biggest scapegoat.
With that being said, on a state level it is much more serious and a much more difficult issue to navigate. I don't have an answer for how to handle that, unfortunately.
Where there is essentially *no fucking chance* gun control is expanded.
This is literally a *perfect scenario* for folks on r/liberalgunowners to not even need to think twice about who to vote for.
But here we are!
I agree and am glad the Supreme Court has made the right decisions imo. I just notice that states just ignore the Supreme Court, pass laws, go through the legal processes for months or years before they can be settled. I also worry this is the Roe v Wade for Dems, we’ll keep pushing for things our radicals will support. Once the courts change they’ll go even further, the same way Republicans moved from abortion to birth control. Also we saw how it affected the voters. I know a few women who have men in their lives they fear and stay armed for. I’ve had a few bad experiences and i think Democrats will lose voters who have lived experiences with stress of losing their lives
>I also worry this is the Roe v Wade for Dems, we’ll keep pushing for things our radicals will support. Once the courts change they’ll go even further, the same way Republicans moved from abortion to birth control
100% agree with this. If the SCOTUS flips blue they will overturn every single pro gun ruling. We have seen it in every court below SCOTUS.
If you have guns now, then keep them. My personal reasoning on this is that they can outlaw whatever they want, but they can't "take" what they can't find.
Some rights politicians can take without having to physically find anything. Those are the ones that are most at risk. The right to have your vote count. The right to travel without excessive government surveillance. The right to protect your children from indoctrination into a religion that isn't your own. The right to equal access to facilities and jobs; the right to make your own medical decisions. The right to equal protection under the law from violence and/or stalking.
We cannot go back to the days when domestic violence was ignored by law enforcement as "a family matter". And the child marriage junk that some are pushing is just thinly veiled pedophilia.
The law can say whatever. Let them try to find my guns.
There are plenty of places on the internet to post anti-liberal / anti-leftist sentiments; [this sub is not one of them](/r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/intro/illiberal).
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I feel pretty good about the security of the 2nd amendment with the current lineup of supreme court justices on the bench. I’m not going to let me stance on 1 issue put the rest of my policy positions in jeopardy.
I am not a single issue voter. I’m a military veteran living in California and I care more about trying to move the political needle to the left in hopes that we get better public infrastructure, better healthcare, social safety nets and so on. Unfortunately both parties kinda suck however there is one party that tries to pass legislation that I like. Republicans are completely not in reality and not voting is helping republicans out in my honest opinion.
With all due respect, and I realize this is a gun sub, voting based solely on gun regulation is asinine.
There are almost 30 amendments, all with the same legal importance as the 2nd, not to mention all the articles and provisions of the constitution itself, and there is one party that is clearly less committed to upholding them than the other as a matter of their policy positions. If you want to push for less or different restrictions on guns I'm 100% there with you but I'm not gonna ever pretend that magazine restrictions or other gun laws in any way represent a threat to our country because they just don't.
To paraphrase Beau of the Fifth Column: Conservatives like to pretend you need your guns to protect your rights without ever acknowledging that they would sacrifice every other right they have just to hold on to their guns.
I'm not a single issue voter but will play devil's advocate by saying the rest of the constitution is just words on paper without the means to defend it
A lot of folks say that, but I'm not sure it's true. It seems to me that what swings the tides of legitimacy in governments is enfranchisement of the citizens. In Iraq and Afghanistan, elections were more important than rifles.
I'll grant that you will always need some threat of force to enact a social vision but I think it's far more important to have legal and popular support. Just my feeling but I think that by the time someone was legitimately justified in using arms against a democratic state you'd conclude they'd fucked up a long time earlier.
I like my guns, I'm not gonna say social concerns played zero part in what I've purchased, but I am way less enthusiastic about armed uprisings by anyone leading to something better in the US. especially when for all it's problems I think our democracy functions quite well
If you aren't a single issue voter the choice isn't that hard even if that choice is shit.
Let's say you have the choice between two sandwiches.
1. A pretty ok sandwich except for it being kinda bland and having a massive dog shit where the cheese should be.
2. Various kinds of shit pressed into the shape of sandwiches parts so it's mostly shit but they put your favorite cheese in it.
Personally, being disappointed with your current electoral choices is like being disappointed with the fruit tree sapling you planted yesterday for not bearing fruit.
Getting good candidates in position is a process of years. If your local choices suck, that sounds like a great opportunity to start ramming better candidates through primaries.
Every state level aspiring politician I've ever met was desperate for more volunteers. And if you don't have any local candidates worth your time, run yourself or get an upstanding friend to do it?
I don't know how it is for people in blue states with powerful Dem parties, but in red land our local county Dems are basically old folks and college kids. If say, you build a power base either within the party or better yet, a community org that is not beholden to them, you'll have them eating out of your hand.
The GOP is no friend of gun owners. They held the presidency and both houses of congress and suppressors are still NFA items, no nation wide concealed reciprocity, etc..
The Republicans like to hound on issues without lifting a finger and even actively sabotaging potential solutions.
I'll take someone looking me in the eye saying they're going to do something I may not like over the guy pretending to be an ally who is doing nothing but fucking me over to win elections.
I think that as a true liberal progressive o can deal with the anti gun stance on most democrats. What I can’t stand for is every other issue that the republican are on the wrong side of the issue. Sad to say it is every issue that they are in the wrong side
I'm voting for Ficus P. Lant!
OK serious answer? I feel this rant. I voted for Kathy Gun-Grabber Hochul because I simply could not stomach Lee Zeldin as governor of New York (I may not have a uterus, but some of my best friends do and as unpopular as the opinion may be in the Republican party I believe that they are still people who deserve the right to control what happens to their bodies!)
In return for my vote I and my friends (again, some of whom have uteruses) have been called "MAGA Extremists" and worse by our governor for the mortal sin of *checks notes* owning a firearm.
To say I am *displeased* with my options here is an understatement.
My personal view on this though is that I'd still rather vote for an anti-gun Democrat who I agree with on most of the other issues than an ostensibly pro-gun Republican who views me as subhuman trash (and would happily come for ***MY*** guns right after they finish stripping me of all my other rights, because they don't believe in rights - only privileges extended to those they agree with).
I feel like I can fight with a Democrat (and the Democratic Party, and "The Left" in general) about "gun stuff" and while I probably won't win that fight in the near term (because most of the money - corporate or small dollar - is "anti-gun" money) at least I'm only fighting a war to keep *one* right. ([Only an idiot fights a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of idiots fights a war on *twelve* fronts.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCE-vzEtbaQ))
I mean hell my mother, who is as anti-gun as they come, thinks the NY State ammo background checks are bullshit after I was griping about the process after being delayed on a purchase *yet again* - if I can make marginal progress there I think there's got to be some hope of making marginal progress at larger scales if enough folks push the party on these issues.
I agree with this. I voted for Kathy too. I have a daughter who was born in 2019 and one who was born in 2021. They both have fewer federal rights than they did when they were born.
I was perusing the NRA magazine that arrived today and there was a big article about how this next election is about the 2nd ammendment and imploring me to vote for trump. I couldn't help but laugh because if he gets elected dictator, the first thing he will do is take away people's guns.
Buying a gun isn't really any more complicated than it was before. I got my pistol permit and concealed carry between when the Supreme Court ruled and when NY changed the process. I do kinda wish they would have just left it alone. If you had a concealed carry permit before the ruling, you really could take it almost everywhere and now, not so much.
As far as the ammo background checks? Erie is only an hour away...
NY Ranty-Pants On:
> Buying a gun isn't really any more complicated than it was before.
That's only true if you already have a pistol permit, but if you're someone like me where *nearly all your friends live across the magical arbitrary county line* and your county only accepts references from people *in the county* (Fuck You Very Much, Nassau) a pistol permit is a lot harder to get, and the semi-auto rifle permit is the same process so buying a gun is a lot harder for me now. The NYS background check system being a trashfire is just insult on top of injury...
> As far as the ammo background checks? Erie is only an hour away...
When people say something like this over in /r/nyguns I always point out that New York is a ***BIG PLACE*** - we're called "The Empire State" for a reason. I'm a couple of hours from the nearest free state where I could buy ammo on a good traffic day, and there are some folks in the middle of the state who are an all-day drive away from a convenient border.
(Also running out of state to buy ammo or getting more aggressive about brass recovery & reloading doesn't solve the problem of "This stupid law is hurting the gun stores we rely on for all the things you need a FFL for." - another great way to choke off a right is to just make sure you're denied the support mechanisms you need to exercise it.)
(The NRA can still go fuck itself with a Garden Weasel though.)
My local police station would only accept references from my town! That was difficult!
When I added a pistol last time they just asked if I wanted to add the semi-auto endorsement but I haven't actually purchased one so I don't know the process.
As I was typing that out about going to erie, I was wondering if you were downstate. I suppose that's probably the worst place for access out of state.
I had to for the range that I wanted to join. Turns out that they weren't accepting new members anyway. Renewal is due this month and I won't be renewing.
I enjoy seeing all the silly advertisements for trump bears or bucks or sneakers too.
Either vote for a party that will put limitations on ONE of your constitutional rights, or vote for a party that will remove ALL of your constitutional rights if you do not swear allegiance to their cult.
Democrats seek to enact change via the correct constitutional process. They tried to change the immigration laws to resolve the border issue a couple weeks ago by passing a bill, which was rejected by the Republicans.
Republicans want to seize power and enforce their goals without regard for the constitutional process. Ohio voted to legalize marijuana, and the Ohio Republican party has done everything it can to subvert the will of 57% of the voters.
The consequences of voting for fascists are clear. Look at what happened in Germany and Italy from 1930-1945.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/jh7ly7/comment/g9xkuc6/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/jh7ly7/comment/g9xkuc6/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
>I'll bite. The goal many people have is for society to be a place where we all have a future. Where your neighbors and family are healthy, crime is low, people have prosperity in the economic front, we have the freedoms of speech, of action, and so-forth provided they don't harm others. Can anyone disagree with that? I really don't think so.We have many important rights. Often that's enumerated, but there's a hidden one that is needed to make all of them work: We have a right to a world where the powerful need to have the same rules as the rest of us, else we are ruled-- not governed.For far too long, we can see the gross abuse of power by many at the expense of our rights. Certain politicians (the President notably) profiting by openly and publicly ignoring the Constitution's Emoluments Clause, designed by the founders to prevent self-enrichment and foreign interference. We see a desire from a segment of the population to strip rights from people: To make it so that you cannot marry the person you care about.We see a disregard for the 5th Amendment as well as many basic governmental norms by attempting at all times to declare all of his opponents to be criminals fit for jail, often with no evidence whatsoever.We see a president who has celebrated in violence as long as it's done by his supporters, even an open disregard for the 6th and 7th amendment: right to a trail, as he celebrates an execution of an American criminal without any attempt to apprehend them.We have a President who was blocked from quartering troops and LEOs against the will of private citizens and companies in an attempt to breach the 3rd Amendment. We have people in Portland grabbed into unmarked vans or governors declaring protesters as a blanket group of criminals, violating the 4th Amendment.We see a Senate that says 'It's OK for the President to have his constitutional checks and balances on being allowed to select judges for confirmation votes--- but only if the President is our party'. That again, breaks the concord of effective governance.Finally of course, we have a ruling leadership that downplays a global pandemic that has killed more Americans in the last 9 months, than we lost in combat against Hitler in 4 years (Seriously, compare those numbers). He won't even advise people to take cosmetic precautions, because optics and polls are more important than hundreds of thousands of American lives.---All of this is pretty high out there. It doesn't at any one case affect your day to day--- but it can and will. These are all the tyrannies that many say 'The Second Amendment Protects the others!', only then you see in practice, what does that mean? We get open carry morons and proud boys LARPing to intimidate and strip 1st Amendment rights from others. We get literal children who think they're in Mad Max, shooting people in the street (and being celebrated for their murder). We get a rich couple who sweep crowds with muzzles, and get called heroes because they are (very negligently) holding guns and are of a certain color. So far, the 2A hasn't protected shit, and blind worship of it has resulted in certain gun owners to become tools. Rattle a few key words and then they'll obey in tyrannizing others. Tell them that (group X) is bad, and they'll be too eager to be the gun-grabbers, at gun-point.What do you think happens once these private armies have completed stripping rights from others, far moreso than any other Government admin in living memory? Do you really think your 2A rights are sacred then, when some groups are even eager take them from each other? You'll lose those rights too. And there'll be nothing left for us then.There are so many things we need to protect. And as much as one may like or dislike him, or some policies, Joe Biden does represent a return to normalcy. Of putting pieces together, and having a semblance of Governance by the Rules. Obama didn't take anyone's guns and our government had some measure of actually functioning. Trump unilaterally signed an EO to declare a piece of plastic a machine gun to score some points. Trump does not give one shit about any of your rights, 2nd Amendment included.A rational, functioning government that's not openly kleptocratic absolutely is a better choice for every single one of our rights. Because it'll be the one that allows for the flourishing once again of our economy, the prevalence of reason and communication over hatemongering, and the focus on what makes us stronger, rather than what enriches the dear leader.This is not a Red vs Blue question, or a 'Liberal' position. It's supporting a Government that plays by the rules, vs one that serves the whims of an unaccountable Leader and his unelected family/cronies, and openly tramples nearly every single right enjoyed by you and me. For that reason, I have zero hesitation in voting for Joe Biden.
There are plenty of places on the internet to post anti-liberal / anti-leftist sentiments; [this sub is not one of them](/r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/intro/illiberal).
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Grandpa Joe. 100%
Pop over to your favorite news sub and check out what West Virginia and Alabama have been up to lately. Orange man would accelerate that process.
I knew who I was going to vote for prior to October 7. Now all bets are off. I'm likely to vote 3rd party as a protest vote.
I already have to pay my taxes and realize much of them go to further the genocide. I don't think I can in clear conscience vote to make American lives marginally better paid for with Palestinian blood.
I’ve ceased trying to decide which politicians to vote for based on the issues that are important to ME. I think the number one thing is to choose a candidate with good judgment and values who will be able to rise to address the situations that confront them during their term. The next thing I look at is what are the issues that candidate is lost passionate about as that informs what committees they would sit on and what bills they would introduce.
Absent of a large grassroots 2A faction inside the Democratic structure almost any AWB or similar will get the vote of the Democrat from California. But there will be a difference in which senator will write and introduce that legislation.
You'll sooner convince a liberal to see reason than a fascist to give up power. I wish we could have it all, but that's just not the reality of 2024. Vote accordingly, if you value being able to vote ever again.
You don't cede even a single inch to the fascists. The time and place to do progressive work is absolutely not in the voting booth UNTIL we get ranked choice voting. Be progressive when and where it's possible, but when it's time to vote you cast it for the party that's most likely to actually win against the fascists, whoever it is. To abstain your vote or vote for some nobody 3rd party candidate with a 1.3% chance of winning is literally just giving power to fascists.
No I am not happy voting for Dems, but the other side is amazingly even worse. Look at what the Republican plan for the USA is if they gain full control. Look at "Project 2025". I'll let you in on a little secret: the Republicans are also anti-gun, unless you're a straight white conservative Christian cisgender man.
No, it's not an endless battle, eventually the Republicans will implode. I don't think it'll be quick. But *until* the fascist threat is eliminated, we have to stave it off. Each election cycle. If we don't, we're done, we're dead. Literally. And those of us that survive will see all our minority friends and family suffer or murdered. Look at history. It's not hyperbolic. This has happened again and again and again, now is absolutely not the time to play around with fate.
I don't have an answer, but I did just have this convo on another sub.
There is a disconnect with our (left leaning) politicians who look at polls, not people. "Ban the Gun" is a really easy memeable/sound bite worthy statement that the lion share go for without looking at the underlying issues, nuance, etc... All of which are hard to communicate is speeches and press releases. They go for the easy statement that can keep them viable through the next election.
I don't know a single politician (and I don't personally know many) on the left who engages with this community unless they come from it. And I think that is were the change can happen.
As much as I think Brandon Herrera is a total chode, he is putting his money where his mouth is and running on a pro-gun platform. Harder to do on the right, but unless we get more 2A friendly (or informed) politicians in office all we will ever get is nickel-dime bans that slowly remove rights and be forced to listen to our politicians spout shit they know nothing about.
Someone with the resources and drive to create a lobby group for our side of the coin is one way. Getting out there and putting our name on a ballot locally is another.
The simple truth is progressive policies for income inequality, food insecurity, healthcare, etc... in other words a more fair society would change have more impact on all crime, including gun violence. But someone needs to connect those dots with both facts and good oratory to create momentum for change.
I don't see it changing any other way.
I feel you. Both parties have become mask off since the genocide in Palestine started. Neither party will actually protect gun rights or union rights as they’re both bought off. I suggest just sticking to your local election and impacting the community that affects you the most
If neither seem worth it, burn your vote on a third party candidate. It sends a better middle finger to the mainstream parties than not voting and if Libertarians get 5% of the national vote they’ll be allowed on the debate stage
This won't be a popular opinion, but the pragmatic solution in a blue state is to vote pro-2A even if that means a conservative Republican. Democrats in these states will push anti-gun laws and they will stick. Republicans may be able to defend your 2A rights and will most likely not accomplish their other aims, and if they do it will likely be temporary.
Im voting 3rd party president and red down ballot.
Living in Illinois, theres a -1000% chance of republicans gaining enough power to fuck with the stuff i like, but there IS a chance they would be able to stop the next PICA level bill that will inevitably show up because Illinois Democrats want us disarmed completely. Either party having a supermajority just straight aint it.
PICA is such bullshit and was passed in such a slimy way that i refuse to vote for anyone who had anything to do with it and if the only way to get the message across, since they dont give a fuck about public comments or witness slips, is to vote against them, so be it.
I'm a single-issue voter, and guns are a make-or-break issue for me. I simply in good faith cannot vote for someone who would willingly take my rights away and make me a felon overnight. So, I simply don't vote, haven't even bothered to register in years.
The problem in California is one-party rule, and the Democratic Party hates the second amendment. If you want something different than the party on gun control you should vote for someone else, because they aren’t going to change their position on it until they suffer some electoral defeats.
It sucks because I personally agree with democrats on most things, but they need to lose their super majority so they realize that they need to focus on issues that actually impact people, not pie in the sky gun bans.
It's nuts/sad how true this is. The super majority is ironically hurting us with pie in the sky issues that don't impact people.
I think this is where OP is mainly ranting, at the CA-level, not federal and I feel this rant.
Also let me caveat this that this is my opinion for state-level elections. At the federal level I just vote for the dem who doesn’t seem to be focused on gun control.
You don't vote for the guy who has literally said things that glorify totalitarianism. You don't vote for a man who has admitted he won't step down and wants to be a dictator. It's not like he's going to let anyone who was on a liberal reddit keep their guns, for fuck's sake.
Because at the end of the day the "left" and "right" are just fabrications and constructs meant to divide the populace on essentially trivial issues (in the grand scheme) and consolidate power in the ruling elite. We're too busy fighting amongst ourselves to fight back against them and actually make things better for everyone.
The reality is 95% of the people are in "the middle" (centrists) but those folks don't make sensational headlines.
At this point your options are to buy into a rigged system or completely bug out try to exist off grid before they come for you too. It's sad but that's what we're stuck with because we got the politicians we all voted for...
This is honestly the biggest difference I've seen between rural owners and less rural owners. For alot of people in the cities and suburbs, owning prohibited items isn't really viable if you intend to ever use them, especially if you have people who depend on you.
I'm not saying people who would turn them in are better or worse than those who would just choose to be an outlaw, just that I understand individual circumstances plays a huge roll in making that decision.
You can definitely vote blue in a blue state and keep guns - Vermont, Colorado… yes, even California, as difficult as it seems sometimes… but they’re out there.
I’m not convinced purple is the way either because frankly, outside of 2A, I have nothing but contempt for republicans and usually the red mixed in to make the purple includes more than 2A defense.
As much as it hurts, don’t be a single issue voter. Life is generally better overall when blue wins.
Folks like us don't have any one to vote for. That's just reality.
I support the Proportional Representation Coalition (ProRep Coalition) and the California National Party because they are both working to change that, but neither is on the ballot yet.
Which side is trying to actively overthrow our government? There's no way Democrats are ever going to actually take your guns away. It would be impossible to actually facilitate. I'd rather keep my democracy, get rights for all, and healthcare while taking up the gun issue in the courts. I'm not going to support a dictatorship just to keep my guns. Worst case I go deep sea fishing and "accidentally dump them overboard" if you get my meaning...
My two cents is you don’t want to be a one issue person. I am similar person Colorado where the politicians are pushing for an Assault Weapon Ban. I have written to my local state rep and senator telling them I don’t support the weapons ban. But outside of that issue I am mostly happy with the direction Colorado is going. Better schools and health care. Otherwise here in Colorado you get the knucklehead repukes like boobert. So look at all or many of the issues and vote your preference. One more thing, is you mentioned several people as candidates, I don’t recognize any but Schiff, but think these guys are more on a Federal level, not necessarily the same people who are pushing laws within the State of California. As much as I hate hearing about gun bans , I hate the crap that comes out of the repukes mouth, WAY MORE.
Current set of republican reps are proof they cannot govern. They negotiate a bill with border protection and they throw it away for political points. Bet they shut the federal government down as well.
I think you gotta vote blue.
I own guns *because* conservatives own guns, and I don't trust them not to come after me later. My conservative friends, family and neighbors? I don't think they'd come after me. But I can't say for sure. But I sure as shit know they wouldn't do anything to aid me if they knew conservatives were coming to hunt me if it goes that way eventually. So I think of it this way: liberals at least want to take *everybody's* guns away, but conservatives will eventually want to take *just liberals'* guns away.
Even if CA reps are advocating for a new bill like this, you can vote for them for all the other reasons, *and also* oppose them on this one legislative issue. Honestly, I'm not sure a registration requirement survives Second Amendment scrutiny if it imposes an annual license fee. A one-time registration fee, so long as it is reasonable, maybe. But I don't see even a left-leaning court upholding a statute that turns an enumerated Constitutional *right* into a wealth-based *privilege*. Unlike real estate and cars, the Constitution makes gun ownership a right - not a privilege, which means anything that unreasonably restricts ownership likely gets overturned.
Not gonna lie, been thinking about moving back to California. But this legislation has me hesitant at the moment. I'm not even really opposed to registration; just the proposed fee. If it was something like $2-15 bucks per firearm, *maybe* I could deal with it. But unlike cars or houses, where a person reasonably has only one, it is not unreasonable to expect a person to have a handgun, a shotgun and a rifle (three tools for different jobs). And that assumes people don't come into possession through inheritance. Suddenly, you owe an annual fee on a 100-year-old shotgun that has sentimental value because it was your great granddad's, even if it's basically unshootable because it has a Damascus twist? Or what about collectors? I knew a gal who used to have the largest collection of antique Derringers in the United States in Orange County. Now she has to pay an annual fee for something that is no different for her than stamp collections and sports memorabilia is to other people?
But I think you fight your battles one at a time. So, I'm still voting blue (FDT!). On this one thing, I'll lobby against it. And if it goes through, I'm sure I'll be able to find a gun rights law firm that will take me as a client (if I move back to CA) and litigate the constitutionality of a fee later. I'll take the NRA's money to pay lawyers on this one issue. And with this particular Supreme Court, I have few doubts a statute like this would get overturned.
Vote for 3rd party or independent candidates; suffice to say as a former resident of California I ended up joining a third party when I got old enough to vote because I honestly believe California is the prime example of both mainstream parties going completely off the deep end, and their first past the post voting methodology essentially allowing them to have two Democrats argue with each other over who’s more liberal/progressive than the other to win the most influential posts in the state.
It also doesn’t help that CA is pretty much the last holdout that has a law enforcement lobby with a strong enough stranglehold over the state legislature that they can get away with continuing to uphold “rules for me but not for thee” exemptions that grant them even more protections than officers in most other states. Hell, it absolutely blew my mind when I found out a city cop had more exemptions from CA’s gun laws than a federal agent from a three letter law enforcement agency.
I typically vote republican, I’m in the same boat. Biden is too old and not really functioning on all cylinders, but he’s STILL better than trump. Why republicans (or anyone ) wants the orange one is beyond me. I will probably vote independent.
But I’m hearing that the far right is going to go nuts if trump loses, so that’s not good.
By the way, I think this sub has shifted me from the right to the middle.
> I will probably vote independent.
If you're aware of the stakes here, the only acceptable action is to vote for Biden. The only ethical thing to do is to attempt to keep Trump out of power, and that means voting for Biden.
and further legitimize the circus and continue the negative feedback loop. The only ethically acceptable thing to do is to vote 3rd party or not vote at all until such time as either 3rd parties become viable, or the entire system collapses and we can build something better from remains. Yes, things might get worse, possibly much worse, before they get better, but its the only path that actually leads to any sort of improvement in the long term. There is no longer a path that turns the US into a modern socialized state directly. That ship sailed over a decade ago. The corporations and the wealthy elite, have captured every aspect of our society. They've captured the politicians, the regulators, the government itself, etc. We will NEVER see socialized healthcare, wealth redistribution, real estate reform, or anything else that solves actual problems in this country.
I voted for Joe Biden once using exactly the logic you stated, I'm GenZ and he kept zero of the promises that were made to my generation while bending over backwards to keep the boomers happy. It was at that point I realized things will never improve as long as the corporatist democrats are in power.
I'm 24 now, the way I see it is that even if the rest of my 20s and my 30s are spent living in quasi fascist corporatist state, after the quasi fascist state inevitably collapses (as all fascist states do, because its a self consuming idealogy) the later half of my life will be spent in a better society that arises from that aftermath. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices now for gains later. Unchecked capitalism has so totally corrupted the average American that they can't even fathom thinking about anything other than short term gains.
I don't know who these people are (Josh Harder, Rhodesia Ransom, Jerry McNerny, Carlos Villapadua, Adam Schiff or Katie Porter), but I don't see any reason why you can't vote 3rd party.
Let's look beyond the rhetoric and look closely at the *actions* made by the last republican and current democratic presidents.
The standout action by Trump was the bump stock ban. This greatly expanded the scope of the ATF, as it allowed the ATF to make a firearm illegal based on an accessory. Before the bump stock ban, an accessory could be illegal (think suppressor), and a gun could be illegal, but an accessory could not make a gun illegal. That changed with the bump stock ban.
The standout action by Biden was the decision that the ATF could only enforce laws written by congress, not create laws themselves. This threw out the bump stock ban, and severely curtailed excesses by the ATF moving forward.
Rhetoric is just words. Actions speak louder than words.
I always suspect that people who feel conflicted on who to vote for just because of guns might have other right wing views that they aren't fessing up to.
Yes, 2A rights are worth fighting for. Would I EVER vote for a Republican just because they are pro 2A? No, absolutely not. I own guns, but they don't impact my life in any meaningful way.
For well over 99% of gun owners, none of us will ever use a firearm to save a life. Remember that.
RFK Jr.
He’s pro body autonomy which includes trans rights and abortion. He’s pro second amendment. He’s pro environment and green tech. He’s anti foreign wars (save Israel/Hamas but I’m pretty sure that’s just to get elected because it doesn’t mesh with his feelings on Ukraine). Pro labor. Anti-hedge fund. Anti military industrial complex. For getting corporate money out of elections. And contrary to what many think, pro scientific research…
The MSM hatchet jobs on his anti-vax stance fail to mention that he has no intention of banning vaccines. He just plans on directing the NIH to conduct double blind studies from birth through adulthood.
Please move to Oregon. Our measure 114 barely passed by less than 50,000 votes. If enough 2A liberals and California Republicans move to Oregon, we can shift the state purple and make it 2A-friendly.
Honestly it used to be that Republicans were staunch supporters of the Second Amendment, but we’re gradually seeing more Republican lawmakers vote in favor of harsher gun control, usually to get concessions from the Democrats on other issues.
I grudging vote, know that, even in a small way, voting falsely justifies an anti-democratic system that will never produce good. I vote for issues that stand a chance of doing some social good, against issues that further concentrate power in the hands of the elites, and, most importantly, against the worst authoritarians whenever possible (tough to do in my state since they *all* are the worst). But I won't think about the process beyond taking half an hour to look through and carefully read ballot propositions.
While I think that voting as "harm reduction" is pretty much an illusion, it's at least a low-effort one that is useful in some cases. I don't expect much from it, though.
I first voted in 1972, and voted every election since, yes I vote a party line. But I do tell people like yourself, you decide the election, you are educated to the issues. JUST one order from an old guy, VOTE!!!!
What's more important, your guns? Or preventing the collapse of democracy and a genocide of black and brown people as well as the LGBTQ community?
Those are the stakes. I'm holding my breath and voting blue no matter who because it is as much self defense for me as owning a gun is.
I vote Dem because the Republicans now actively want to kill transgender people, i.e. me! So if you voted Dem I would personally really appreciate it. I carry a gun *because* of Republicans.
Voting for the GOP is crazy given their extremist behavior, complacency, and ,oh, i dont know, their desire to take away your rights and subjugate women. There is no comparison. Do you want another trump embarrassment? We will be lucky if, elected, it's as tame as their last 4 agonizing years. The dems are the only option. Until ranked choice or other means are established to level the playing field.
After we rid the world of the MAGA blight, we can work on a more centered and independent movement to build the inclusive society we all want.
Even NRA A rated Democrat rural t politicians like Kathy Hochul and Gillibrand of NY do a 180 as soon as they get real power. This comes from the top, whomever they are. They're the problem. No matter who wins it's going to be bad.
To really have better choices you need to get involved earlier. Maybe go to a caucus and help pick who the candidates will be. Guns unfortunately have become a Rep/Dem split issue.
Agreed, it is pretty harsh trying to find a pro 2A Dem in California. I'm in the 43rd District myself.
But it was funny as sh#t watching Katie Porter and her while board make the head of the CDC her b#tch during COVID.
CA is pretty crazy with the latest laws and emissions items and stuff. I don’t think republicans could take control or undo any of that quickly, much of your laws are pushed to get done immediately without regard to the difficulty or cost it puts on your people. So I think voting Republican locally would not stop of the stuff you care about but it might put some adjustments or common sense for your crime or middle class. So I hate to recommend in a two party system but I think you should go Republican this run.
I’m done with voting for people because I disagree with 80% of their actions rather than 90%. Third party for me for sure although I don’t know which this early.
I’m right there with ya buddy. Both sides want to control us. Which is completely anti-constitutional. Our politicians should be held accountable for unconstitutional laws. Gun control is unconstitutional, at the same time so are segregation laws preventing trans people from using the correct bathroom. I’m really upset about where we’re headed.
I always say "I can hide a gun in my attic. I can't perform a life saving abortion for an ectopic pregnancy in my attic". I'm not a single issue voter and 9/10 of the issues I care about are clearly better when voting for blue candidates. Really wish there were some viable purple options.
Can’t 3d print a fair election
You wouldn't download a president‽
I fucking would, don’t even try and stop me *GeorgeWashington(2)FINAL.mp3.exe*
Aww, now there's a virus in the government.
Anyone remember kazaa? That thing was syphilis with ghonorea in a UTI.
I was a SoulSeek user.
That may make it work better
TheodoreRoosevelt(2.0).exe would be my choice
you'd have to run an update to patch the racial attitudes, but a Bull Moose in DC would be nice to see.
True but that's probably true of many of them
That's a super weird printer file type. I guess flesh printers have some proprietary software.
I would download Nixon’s head in a jar in a New York second…
Interrobang!
I'm the exact same way. I'm not a single-issue voter. I vote for the person who best aligns with my views, and advocate to them for the ones that we disagree on.
That's me. The choice between one party that I disagree with a few things on, vs another that I disagree with most things on - isn't a very difficult choice. I'm in a purple state, but very red district - but regardless of who's in - blue or red - I make sure to write and let them know what I think on a variety of issues and concerns.
I would rather fight the Biden administration in the courts over gun rights than Trump's Brown Shirts in the streets over the rest of my civil rights.
this is when we need to have the conversation about ranked choice voting.
We’ve had the conversation and it has worked in Maine
alaska too. we have a pro gun dem in DC and it rocks.
Not for the major parties :(
Not in California. They have a registry of where the guns are.
They have a registry of where the known guns are. Or were, since you can sell it (which requires an ffl) and move out of state, and they still think you own it.
That doesn't change my point? If you sell it to anyone in state, they know. Your only other option is to leave. They are now trying to change it to annual registration. There is no hiding it in the attic here.
My state also did a registry. Let's just say the compliance rate was ummm... low. Legalities aside, guns are out there and can be obtained if you really want one. I'm not advocating breaking the law, but some laws are easier to circumvent than others.
This is why I hate that things have become so polarized and divisive. Like we're never going to get a Democrat that can be openly pro second amendment and pro gun rights and we are never going to get Republicans to be pro-union ever again. This is why I'm trying to advocate for my more left leaning and queer friends to make gun groups go to gun ranges just own a gun if nothing else than to just show the right wing that they are not the only ones that own firearms. Like I know they have this image of the blue haired leftist crying in the bathroom scared of the very idea of a gun. We need to dissuade them of that notion The only reason they engage so violently and so openly is because they believe that no one will retaliate. I realize a lot of gun spaces are controlled by the right wing I mean for God's sake a local gun group in my area had to completely find another range because the range they were going to stop having them come because they claimed they couldn't constantly host them even though it was only 20 or so people coming about once a week. This same range hosts quarterly cowboy action shooting events that are regularly see hundreds of people in attendance and dozens of contestants but they can't handle a few queer people shooting handguns at their range? And this also bleeds into the problem with right wing gun owners. They claim to be second amendment advocates but they act like they only want to be armed themselves and no one else gets that right. Which I know is pretty much how the right wing feels about everything but it's especially hypocritical when they constantly talk about an armed society being a polite society in that everyone should own a firearm but as soon as someone of color or in the LGBTQ communities starts arming themselves they're quick to go NOT LIKE THAT
This comment wins the internet today. <3
Well not with that attitude.
This
California Republicans don't want to make exceptions for the mother's life being in danger? I'm asking because I really don't know and find it weird that they wouldn't.
I don't know about California specifically, but other states have made very dangerous anti abortion laws. My statement was more of a broad stroke to make a point on my ability to circumvent the changes each party is trying to make to laws that could eventually elevate to a federal level. Theocratic rule would change society way more than a banned item.
>I can't perform a life saving abortion for an ectopic pregnancy in my attic Not with that attitude
Yellow* purple are pedos atleast according to the political compass
Purple is what you get when you mix red and blue... trust me, I went to art school.
You can write politicians and tell them this. You can vote for politicians that aren't overtly antigun in the primaries. You vote has much more impact there anyway. If you live in a solidly blue state, you can explore 3rd party candidates. CA isn't going Red anytime soon, so the idea that if you don't vote for the Dems you're voting for a right winger doesn't hold up there.
A pro-gun Dem that ran as a blue Republican might actually win in a lot of the state.
This. Especially in contested areas contacting representatives in this manner is effective.
Running for office might also be a possibility.
I think that 30 years ago this would have been a tough decision, but now the way I look at it is vote for Democrats and they might take away some rights, vote for Republicans and they will do their damnedest to take them ALL away. If you think the GOP cares about gun rights, I think you would be mistaken, especially if you are any kind of minority.
This. Good lord. We know by now that gun laws aren’t becoming drastically more strict anytime soon. Especially with this Supreme Court. But… We literally were a couple of right-wing dipshits having a conscience from this country not being a democracy anymore less than four years ago. So there’s that.
You obviously don’t live in WA. Guns laws have been getting stricter every single year in the last few years and they continue to propose new legislation. It’s death by a thousand cuts here.
At the federal level? True. At the state level? You might want to look up some of the proposed and passed state level gun laws and tell me again how they aren’t drastically more strict. Flouting Bruen as “may-issue” states begrudgingly become “shall-issue” but now just get away with what they did before by justifying long application processing times (1 year + in CA in many populated cities and counties) and arguing in court that even with a licensed concealed carry permit they can still prohibit carriers from carrying in a majority of public places, to the point of trying to flip precedent on its head and make private business no-carry unless they post signage allowing carry in their business, is just a carry prohibition by a different method. And that’s before pointing out all the different ways CA is trying to effectively price out the working class from firearms ownership (fees to acquire a license, fees to register the gun on top of background checking you twice, fees for the background check for ammo, fees for applying and renewing your carry license that go well above and beyond administrative processing fees, fees and licenses to even legally handle guns or ammo if you decide to become employed at a gun shop or sporting goods store) and finding more ways to raise the price, like how this year the current good idea up for proposal is to require annual fee’s to register all the firearms you own in CA, even if you are grandfathered in with firearms you owned before registration was required. CA Democrats have made it quite clear that the only tolerable form of gun ownership is people owning the fewest, lowest capacity firearms available, and a distinct preference towards making firearms owned for self defense as socially unacceptable or potentially criminal as possible.
Golly gosh, what if you voted R at the state level, and D federally? It’s almost like there’s a very easy solution to your concerns. Nevermind, a lot of these laws will work their way to Fed court or SCOTUS and not survive anyway. So, sure, in CA maybe you have more limited rights for a few years. In that time, going the other route, you might not even have a legitimate vote next election cycle.
Like in Ohio? Where the state government is ignoring the will of the people who overwhelmingly voted to support abortion rights?
A few years? Try going on three decades and not getting any better. If it took Bruen 14 years to come around after Heller v DC, I have zero expectations CA will ever actually respect people’s right to self defense outside of their home in my lifetime. And losing a legitimate right to vote because of R’s running the show for a few years? Sounds like fear mongering more than anything else.
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You seem to be very much a pompous, arrogant, unpleasant person. User you've been talking to has had solid points and been respectful. And you've been a jerk.
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The entirety of the last comment you responded to before I commented. And plenty of other points before. You are very smart and obviously know better, and golly gee Dems certainly care a whole bunch, so much so that they absolutely make all the change they constantly promise, oh boy! They don't make any money off the divide and maintaining the status quo, no sir-ee! Jeez louise they just do so much good. We're not brainwashed into us-vs-them bullshit while they laugh all the way to the bank from all the lobbyists' money, no way, no how! Thanks for calling me a peach, it means so much to me that such an esteemed, wise member of our society thinks highly of me! Just kidding, you're a dick. Eta: their posts were removed it seems, but homie said things like "golly gee" to be condescending when they thought they were making a point. I swear I don't actually communicate like this lol.
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This post is too uncivil, and has been removed. Please attack ideas, not people. ^(*Removed under [Rule 3: Be Civil][link-rules]. If you feel this is in error, please [file an appeal][link-appeal].*) [link-rules]: /r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/rules [link-appeal]: /r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/moderation#wiki_appeals
And I have to commend your flair for the dramatic; the Democrat’s arguments that democracy is under threat by the Republican’s since 2016 sounds no different than the Republicans arguing the same thing for even longer. It’s simply more evidence both parties want to continue the “us vs them” approach that both parties can’t seem to do anything else but pour more fuel onto the fire since the Clinton years.
In a blue state Republicans realistically aren't going to take your rights unless somehow one makes governor or they get a majority in state senate (not happening in California). Meanwhile a strong Democrat majority absolutely will result in you losing 2A rights.
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There are plenty of places on the internet to post anti-liberal / anti-leftist sentiments; [this sub is not one of them](/r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/intro/illiberal). ^(*Removed under [Rule 1: We're Liberals][link-rules]. If you feel this is in error, please [file an appeal][link-appeal].*) [link-rules]: /r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/rules [link-appeal]: /r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/moderation#wiki_appeals
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Seriously, how is our country so dumb that this is even a question? Hmm, there’s the party that has tried and mostly failed to put some limits on guns… And then there’s the folks who want take all your rights away and build some sort of fascist theocracy, where you don’t get a *vote,* let alone a *gun.* Gee willikers, how do I choose!
Right leaning gun owners are somehow under the impression that guns won't be touched after every other right is stripped away. I talk to so many and lay out single-payer healthcare, taxing the wealthy who don't pay taxes, and personal freedoms (i.e. self determination as to whom someone can marry/love and not living by another religion's rules) and they all agree with them. Until you say "that is what Democrats are trying to put in place and uphold". Their eyes glaze over and they shout "but muh gunz" as if everything else is secondary. They can't grasp that our rights as individuals are one giant concept instead of spread out piecemeal.
You mean… people on this sub? If “liberalgunowners” can’t do the mental deduction and pick a side, this country is so massively fucked.
Hahaha, I know, man. "I mean...I like not being forced to live by Old Testament laws, and being able to at least vote in elections and publicly talk shit about our idiotic political leaders. And not having my house raided by some secret law enforcement group is real nice, and all... ...but..."
Came here to say something similar. Right wing 2a advocates are so myopic they deserve what ever they get. Sadly we get it too if we can’t out vote them. The far right is the reason some of us bought guns to begin with. Then we shot the guns and bought another. And another. And yet another.
Hell yes, those people are freaking nuts, and well armed … and now, so am I
This. I don't want to be insulting or use language we don't like to describe OP, so...I guess I'll say nothing.
Just because people don't want to vote for a Democrat it doesn't mean they are going to vote for a Republican. And yes, I know that FPTP makes third parties nonviable.
Controversial statement: you don’t have to vote for either of them.
Sure. You're going to be living under one of them, though, which is the part which matters.
Not voting is the same effect as voting third party - in a first past the post system, it's functionally supporting the worst candidate
Never said anything about not voting, and no, they aren’t the same thing. If you’ve found yourself in a place where you find voting for either candidate to be morally objectionable and you can’t in good conscience vote for either of them, you can still vote for someone else.
The problem for younger voters/gun owners is we already don’t have healthcare,education,housing and won’t for anytime ~~soon~~ ever. Thats before we get into the consequences of Climate Change. The reality we see is more or less of delaying the inevitable. Not saying that is fact but hell, I’m having less examples to provide on why we should trust the Dem’s batting average. Until the DNC wants to admit guns & gun owners of all creeds aren’t going anywhere in the US. Future & current left-wing gun owning voters are stuck with the choices, keep the right I have to protect my other constitutional freedoms or give up the one to make it easier to control me?
Republicans are fucking Nazi adjacent at this point. Vote blue.
Yeah, I don’t know where the consternation comes from. It’s pretty obvious from my perspective. One party is openly flirting with fascism. Any criteria besides making sure we don’t elect fascists are lower on the priority list. Vote blue. No brainer.
Does anyone really think fascists won't take guns away from the people they deem "unworthy"? They're hypocrites on literally every other thing they stand for, but they'll just let the undesirables still own guns? This isn't even a choice IMO, one party actively tries to take away basic human rights, while threatening that "the other guys are coming fur yur guns" for the last 40+ years. edit: spelling are hard
What basic human rights are being taken away?
The right to health care, education, women’s choice in what to do with their own bodies, want me to go on? If you don’t believe these things are basic human rights, go FAFO in Russia/China
Katie porter is the goat for sure. You hate opioids on the street? You hate that jobs don’t pay enough for single parents? You hate corporate consolidation? She’s been at the forefront of reaming CEO’s, and those responsible for most of the ills in America. That’s my two cents.
🧐 looking at your flair and reading this comment
Y’all are gonna be the best of friends. 😁
I think you underestimate how large the ideological difference is between the two.
Between myself and the Communist fella, or between the Communist fella and…Katie Porter?
As others have said here… the choice is between democrats who may try to enact legislation with a goal of reducing gun violence (*trying to help*) or vote for cultist idiots who are part of the party who tried to overthrow our democracy. Sounds like a tough choice …
Honestly, I've come to the conclusion that gun control, at least on the federal level, is more political theater than anything. If Democrats really cared about lobbying groups like the NRA, they would've introduced legislation for that a long time ago. But to do so would also leave them without lobbyists lining their pockets as well as get rid of their biggest scapegoat. With that being said, on a state level it is much more serious and a much more difficult issue to navigate. I don't have an answer for how to handle that, unfortunately.
I'd say stick with the Dem. Pretty much any gun control measure will be contested and probably go all the way up to SCOTUS, as things are now.
Where there is essentially *no fucking chance* gun control is expanded. This is literally a *perfect scenario* for folks on r/liberalgunowners to not even need to think twice about who to vote for. But here we are!
I agree and am glad the Supreme Court has made the right decisions imo. I just notice that states just ignore the Supreme Court, pass laws, go through the legal processes for months or years before they can be settled. I also worry this is the Roe v Wade for Dems, we’ll keep pushing for things our radicals will support. Once the courts change they’ll go even further, the same way Republicans moved from abortion to birth control. Also we saw how it affected the voters. I know a few women who have men in their lives they fear and stay armed for. I’ve had a few bad experiences and i think Democrats will lose voters who have lived experiences with stress of losing their lives
>I also worry this is the Roe v Wade for Dems, we’ll keep pushing for things our radicals will support. Once the courts change they’ll go even further, the same way Republicans moved from abortion to birth control 100% agree with this. If the SCOTUS flips blue they will overturn every single pro gun ruling. We have seen it in every court below SCOTUS.
If you have guns now, then keep them. My personal reasoning on this is that they can outlaw whatever they want, but they can't "take" what they can't find. Some rights politicians can take without having to physically find anything. Those are the ones that are most at risk. The right to have your vote count. The right to travel without excessive government surveillance. The right to protect your children from indoctrination into a religion that isn't your own. The right to equal access to facilities and jobs; the right to make your own medical decisions. The right to equal protection under the law from violence and/or stalking. We cannot go back to the days when domestic violence was ignored by law enforcement as "a family matter". And the child marriage junk that some are pushing is just thinly veiled pedophilia. The law can say whatever. Let them try to find my guns.
Are you a single issue voter, with that issue being guns? If the answer is no, then you should vote Democrats
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There are plenty of places on the internet to post anti-liberal / anti-leftist sentiments; [this sub is not one of them](/r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/intro/illiberal). ^(*Removed under [Rule 1: We're Liberals][link-rules]. If you feel this is in error, please [file an appeal][link-appeal].*) [link-rules]: /r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/rules [link-appeal]: /r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/moderation#wiki_appeals
I feel pretty good about the security of the 2nd amendment with the current lineup of supreme court justices on the bench. I’m not going to let me stance on 1 issue put the rest of my policy positions in jeopardy.
I am not a single issue voter. I’m a military veteran living in California and I care more about trying to move the political needle to the left in hopes that we get better public infrastructure, better healthcare, social safety nets and so on. Unfortunately both parties kinda suck however there is one party that tries to pass legislation that I like. Republicans are completely not in reality and not voting is helping republicans out in my honest opinion.
With all due respect, and I realize this is a gun sub, voting based solely on gun regulation is asinine. There are almost 30 amendments, all with the same legal importance as the 2nd, not to mention all the articles and provisions of the constitution itself, and there is one party that is clearly less committed to upholding them than the other as a matter of their policy positions. If you want to push for less or different restrictions on guns I'm 100% there with you but I'm not gonna ever pretend that magazine restrictions or other gun laws in any way represent a threat to our country because they just don't. To paraphrase Beau of the Fifth Column: Conservatives like to pretend you need your guns to protect your rights without ever acknowledging that they would sacrifice every other right they have just to hold on to their guns.
I'm not a single issue voter but will play devil's advocate by saying the rest of the constitution is just words on paper without the means to defend it
The ones we need to defend it from are Republicans, and that's easiest done at the polls.
A lot of folks say that, but I'm not sure it's true. It seems to me that what swings the tides of legitimacy in governments is enfranchisement of the citizens. In Iraq and Afghanistan, elections were more important than rifles. I'll grant that you will always need some threat of force to enact a social vision but I think it's far more important to have legal and popular support. Just my feeling but I think that by the time someone was legitimately justified in using arms against a democratic state you'd conclude they'd fucked up a long time earlier. I like my guns, I'm not gonna say social concerns played zero part in what I've purchased, but I am way less enthusiastic about armed uprisings by anyone leading to something better in the US. especially when for all it's problems I think our democracy functions quite well
If you aren't a single issue voter the choice isn't that hard even if that choice is shit. Let's say you have the choice between two sandwiches. 1. A pretty ok sandwich except for it being kinda bland and having a massive dog shit where the cheese should be. 2. Various kinds of shit pressed into the shape of sandwiches parts so it's mostly shit but they put your favorite cheese in it.
Personally, being disappointed with your current electoral choices is like being disappointed with the fruit tree sapling you planted yesterday for not bearing fruit. Getting good candidates in position is a process of years. If your local choices suck, that sounds like a great opportunity to start ramming better candidates through primaries. Every state level aspiring politician I've ever met was desperate for more volunteers. And if you don't have any local candidates worth your time, run yourself or get an upstanding friend to do it? I don't know how it is for people in blue states with powerful Dem parties, but in red land our local county Dems are basically old folks and college kids. If say, you build a power base either within the party or better yet, a community org that is not beholden to them, you'll have them eating out of your hand.
The GOP is no friend of gun owners. They held the presidency and both houses of congress and suppressors are still NFA items, no nation wide concealed reciprocity, etc.. The Republicans like to hound on issues without lifting a finger and even actively sabotaging potential solutions. I'll take someone looking me in the eye saying they're going to do something I may not like over the guy pretending to be an ally who is doing nothing but fucking me over to win elections.
>> the guy pretending to be an ally who is doing nothing but fucking me over to win elections. Too bad this is democrats too :/
Don’t be fooled by the GOP on guns, if they get away with it, they’d take your guns away in a millisecond
100%. all they do is project while effectively being 3 hypocrisies in a trench coat.
I think that as a true liberal progressive o can deal with the anti gun stance on most democrats. What I can’t stand for is every other issue that the republican are on the wrong side of the issue. Sad to say it is every issue that they are in the wrong side
I'm voting for Ficus P. Lant! OK serious answer? I feel this rant. I voted for Kathy Gun-Grabber Hochul because I simply could not stomach Lee Zeldin as governor of New York (I may not have a uterus, but some of my best friends do and as unpopular as the opinion may be in the Republican party I believe that they are still people who deserve the right to control what happens to their bodies!) In return for my vote I and my friends (again, some of whom have uteruses) have been called "MAGA Extremists" and worse by our governor for the mortal sin of *checks notes* owning a firearm. To say I am *displeased* with my options here is an understatement. My personal view on this though is that I'd still rather vote for an anti-gun Democrat who I agree with on most of the other issues than an ostensibly pro-gun Republican who views me as subhuman trash (and would happily come for ***MY*** guns right after they finish stripping me of all my other rights, because they don't believe in rights - only privileges extended to those they agree with). I feel like I can fight with a Democrat (and the Democratic Party, and "The Left" in general) about "gun stuff" and while I probably won't win that fight in the near term (because most of the money - corporate or small dollar - is "anti-gun" money) at least I'm only fighting a war to keep *one* right. ([Only an idiot fights a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of idiots fights a war on *twelve* fronts.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCE-vzEtbaQ)) I mean hell my mother, who is as anti-gun as they come, thinks the NY State ammo background checks are bullshit after I was griping about the process after being delayed on a purchase *yet again* - if I can make marginal progress there I think there's got to be some hope of making marginal progress at larger scales if enough folks push the party on these issues.
I agree with this. I voted for Kathy too. I have a daughter who was born in 2019 and one who was born in 2021. They both have fewer federal rights than they did when they were born. I was perusing the NRA magazine that arrived today and there was a big article about how this next election is about the 2nd ammendment and imploring me to vote for trump. I couldn't help but laugh because if he gets elected dictator, the first thing he will do is take away people's guns. Buying a gun isn't really any more complicated than it was before. I got my pistol permit and concealed carry between when the Supreme Court ruled and when NY changed the process. I do kinda wish they would have just left it alone. If you had a concealed carry permit before the ruling, you really could take it almost everywhere and now, not so much. As far as the ammo background checks? Erie is only an hour away...
NY Ranty-Pants On: > Buying a gun isn't really any more complicated than it was before. That's only true if you already have a pistol permit, but if you're someone like me where *nearly all your friends live across the magical arbitrary county line* and your county only accepts references from people *in the county* (Fuck You Very Much, Nassau) a pistol permit is a lot harder to get, and the semi-auto rifle permit is the same process so buying a gun is a lot harder for me now. The NYS background check system being a trashfire is just insult on top of injury... > As far as the ammo background checks? Erie is only an hour away... When people say something like this over in /r/nyguns I always point out that New York is a ***BIG PLACE*** - we're called "The Empire State" for a reason. I'm a couple of hours from the nearest free state where I could buy ammo on a good traffic day, and there are some folks in the middle of the state who are an all-day drive away from a convenient border. (Also running out of state to buy ammo or getting more aggressive about brass recovery & reloading doesn't solve the problem of "This stupid law is hurting the gun stores we rely on for all the things you need a FFL for." - another great way to choke off a right is to just make sure you're denied the support mechanisms you need to exercise it.) (The NRA can still go fuck itself with a Garden Weasel though.)
My local police station would only accept references from my town! That was difficult! When I added a pistol last time they just asked if I wanted to add the semi-auto endorsement but I haven't actually purchased one so I don't know the process. As I was typing that out about going to erie, I was wondering if you were downstate. I suppose that's probably the worst place for access out of state.
I’m just shocked and upset that anyone would not only give the modern NRA money, but actually read their magazine
I had to for the range that I wanted to join. Turns out that they weren't accepting new members anyway. Renewal is due this month and I won't be renewing. I enjoy seeing all the silly advertisements for trump bears or bucks or sneakers too.
Either vote for a party that will put limitations on ONE of your constitutional rights, or vote for a party that will remove ALL of your constitutional rights if you do not swear allegiance to their cult. Democrats seek to enact change via the correct constitutional process. They tried to change the immigration laws to resolve the border issue a couple weeks ago by passing a bill, which was rejected by the Republicans. Republicans want to seize power and enforce their goals without regard for the constitutional process. Ohio voted to legalize marijuana, and the Ohio Republican party has done everything it can to subvert the will of 57% of the voters. The consequences of voting for fascists are clear. Look at what happened in Germany and Italy from 1930-1945. [https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/jh7ly7/comment/g9xkuc6/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/jh7ly7/comment/g9xkuc6/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) >I'll bite. The goal many people have is for society to be a place where we all have a future. Where your neighbors and family are healthy, crime is low, people have prosperity in the economic front, we have the freedoms of speech, of action, and so-forth provided they don't harm others. Can anyone disagree with that? I really don't think so.We have many important rights. Often that's enumerated, but there's a hidden one that is needed to make all of them work: We have a right to a world where the powerful need to have the same rules as the rest of us, else we are ruled-- not governed.For far too long, we can see the gross abuse of power by many at the expense of our rights. Certain politicians (the President notably) profiting by openly and publicly ignoring the Constitution's Emoluments Clause, designed by the founders to prevent self-enrichment and foreign interference. We see a desire from a segment of the population to strip rights from people: To make it so that you cannot marry the person you care about.We see a disregard for the 5th Amendment as well as many basic governmental norms by attempting at all times to declare all of his opponents to be criminals fit for jail, often with no evidence whatsoever.We see a president who has celebrated in violence as long as it's done by his supporters, even an open disregard for the 6th and 7th amendment: right to a trail, as he celebrates an execution of an American criminal without any attempt to apprehend them.We have a President who was blocked from quartering troops and LEOs against the will of private citizens and companies in an attempt to breach the 3rd Amendment. We have people in Portland grabbed into unmarked vans or governors declaring protesters as a blanket group of criminals, violating the 4th Amendment.We see a Senate that says 'It's OK for the President to have his constitutional checks and balances on being allowed to select judges for confirmation votes--- but only if the President is our party'. That again, breaks the concord of effective governance.Finally of course, we have a ruling leadership that downplays a global pandemic that has killed more Americans in the last 9 months, than we lost in combat against Hitler in 4 years (Seriously, compare those numbers). He won't even advise people to take cosmetic precautions, because optics and polls are more important than hundreds of thousands of American lives.---All of this is pretty high out there. It doesn't at any one case affect your day to day--- but it can and will. These are all the tyrannies that many say 'The Second Amendment Protects the others!', only then you see in practice, what does that mean? We get open carry morons and proud boys LARPing to intimidate and strip 1st Amendment rights from others. We get literal children who think they're in Mad Max, shooting people in the street (and being celebrated for their murder). We get a rich couple who sweep crowds with muzzles, and get called heroes because they are (very negligently) holding guns and are of a certain color. So far, the 2A hasn't protected shit, and blind worship of it has resulted in certain gun owners to become tools. Rattle a few key words and then they'll obey in tyrannizing others. Tell them that (group X) is bad, and they'll be too eager to be the gun-grabbers, at gun-point.What do you think happens once these private armies have completed stripping rights from others, far moreso than any other Government admin in living memory? Do you really think your 2A rights are sacred then, when some groups are even eager take them from each other? You'll lose those rights too. And there'll be nothing left for us then.There are so many things we need to protect. And as much as one may like or dislike him, or some policies, Joe Biden does represent a return to normalcy. Of putting pieces together, and having a semblance of Governance by the Rules. Obama didn't take anyone's guns and our government had some measure of actually functioning. Trump unilaterally signed an EO to declare a piece of plastic a machine gun to score some points. Trump does not give one shit about any of your rights, 2nd Amendment included.A rational, functioning government that's not openly kleptocratic absolutely is a better choice for every single one of our rights. Because it'll be the one that allows for the flourishing once again of our economy, the prevalence of reason and communication over hatemongering, and the focus on what makes us stronger, rather than what enriches the dear leader.This is not a Red vs Blue question, or a 'Liberal' position. It's supporting a Government that plays by the rules, vs one that serves the whims of an unaccountable Leader and his unelected family/cronies, and openly tramples nearly every single right enjoyed by you and me. For that reason, I have zero hesitation in voting for Joe Biden.
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There are plenty of places on the internet to post anti-liberal / anti-leftist sentiments; [this sub is not one of them](/r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/intro/illiberal). ^(*Removed under [Rule 1: We're Liberals][link-rules]. If you feel this is in error, please [file an appeal][link-appeal].*) [link-rules]: /r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/rules [link-appeal]: /r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/moderation#wiki_appeals
If you think the second amendment is more important than all the others, then by all means vote Republican.
Grandpa Joe. 100% Pop over to your favorite news sub and check out what West Virginia and Alabama have been up to lately. Orange man would accelerate that process.
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I knew who I was going to vote for prior to October 7. Now all bets are off. I'm likely to vote 3rd party as a protest vote. I already have to pay my taxes and realize much of them go to further the genocide. I don't think I can in clear conscience vote to make American lives marginally better paid for with Palestinian blood.
I’ve ceased trying to decide which politicians to vote for based on the issues that are important to ME. I think the number one thing is to choose a candidate with good judgment and values who will be able to rise to address the situations that confront them during their term. The next thing I look at is what are the issues that candidate is lost passionate about as that informs what committees they would sit on and what bills they would introduce. Absent of a large grassroots 2A faction inside the Democratic structure almost any AWB or similar will get the vote of the Democrat from California. But there will be a difference in which senator will write and introduce that legislation.
You'll sooner convince a liberal to see reason than a fascist to give up power. I wish we could have it all, but that's just not the reality of 2024. Vote accordingly, if you value being able to vote ever again.
Why does it always come down to voting for either a Douche or a Turd Sandwich?
You don't cede even a single inch to the fascists. The time and place to do progressive work is absolutely not in the voting booth UNTIL we get ranked choice voting. Be progressive when and where it's possible, but when it's time to vote you cast it for the party that's most likely to actually win against the fascists, whoever it is. To abstain your vote or vote for some nobody 3rd party candidate with a 1.3% chance of winning is literally just giving power to fascists. No I am not happy voting for Dems, but the other side is amazingly even worse. Look at what the Republican plan for the USA is if they gain full control. Look at "Project 2025". I'll let you in on a little secret: the Republicans are also anti-gun, unless you're a straight white conservative Christian cisgender man. No, it's not an endless battle, eventually the Republicans will implode. I don't think it'll be quick. But *until* the fascist threat is eliminated, we have to stave it off. Each election cycle. If we don't, we're done, we're dead. Literally. And those of us that survive will see all our minority friends and family suffer or murdered. Look at history. It's not hyperbolic. This has happened again and again and again, now is absolutely not the time to play around with fate.
I don't have an answer, but I did just have this convo on another sub. There is a disconnect with our (left leaning) politicians who look at polls, not people. "Ban the Gun" is a really easy memeable/sound bite worthy statement that the lion share go for without looking at the underlying issues, nuance, etc... All of which are hard to communicate is speeches and press releases. They go for the easy statement that can keep them viable through the next election. I don't know a single politician (and I don't personally know many) on the left who engages with this community unless they come from it. And I think that is were the change can happen. As much as I think Brandon Herrera is a total chode, he is putting his money where his mouth is and running on a pro-gun platform. Harder to do on the right, but unless we get more 2A friendly (or informed) politicians in office all we will ever get is nickel-dime bans that slowly remove rights and be forced to listen to our politicians spout shit they know nothing about. Someone with the resources and drive to create a lobby group for our side of the coin is one way. Getting out there and putting our name on a ballot locally is another. The simple truth is progressive policies for income inequality, food insecurity, healthcare, etc... in other words a more fair society would change have more impact on all crime, including gun violence. But someone needs to connect those dots with both facts and good oratory to create momentum for change. I don't see it changing any other way.
I feel you. Both parties have become mask off since the genocide in Palestine started. Neither party will actually protect gun rights or union rights as they’re both bought off. I suggest just sticking to your local election and impacting the community that affects you the most
If neither seem worth it, burn your vote on a third party candidate. It sends a better middle finger to the mainstream parties than not voting and if Libertarians get 5% of the national vote they’ll be allowed on the debate stage
This won't be a popular opinion, but the pragmatic solution in a blue state is to vote pro-2A even if that means a conservative Republican. Democrats in these states will push anti-gun laws and they will stick. Republicans may be able to defend your 2A rights and will most likely not accomplish their other aims, and if they do it will likely be temporary.
Im voting 3rd party president and red down ballot. Living in Illinois, theres a -1000% chance of republicans gaining enough power to fuck with the stuff i like, but there IS a chance they would be able to stop the next PICA level bill that will inevitably show up because Illinois Democrats want us disarmed completely. Either party having a supermajority just straight aint it. PICA is such bullshit and was passed in such a slimy way that i refuse to vote for anyone who had anything to do with it and if the only way to get the message across, since they dont give a fuck about public comments or witness slips, is to vote against them, so be it.
I'm a single-issue voter, and guns are a make-or-break issue for me. I simply in good faith cannot vote for someone who would willingly take my rights away and make me a felon overnight. So, I simply don't vote, haven't even bothered to register in years.
Vote Blue.
The problem in California is one-party rule, and the Democratic Party hates the second amendment. If you want something different than the party on gun control you should vote for someone else, because they aren’t going to change their position on it until they suffer some electoral defeats. It sucks because I personally agree with democrats on most things, but they need to lose their super majority so they realize that they need to focus on issues that actually impact people, not pie in the sky gun bans.
It's nuts/sad how true this is. The super majority is ironically hurting us with pie in the sky issues that don't impact people. I think this is where OP is mainly ranting, at the CA-level, not federal and I feel this rant.
Also let me caveat this that this is my opinion for state-level elections. At the federal level I just vote for the dem who doesn’t seem to be focused on gun control.
You don't vote for the guy who has literally said things that glorify totalitarianism. You don't vote for a man who has admitted he won't step down and wants to be a dictator. It's not like he's going to let anyone who was on a liberal reddit keep their guns, for fuck's sake.
If it helps Republicans are anti-gun for liberals and people of color.
Because at the end of the day the "left" and "right" are just fabrications and constructs meant to divide the populace on essentially trivial issues (in the grand scheme) and consolidate power in the ruling elite. We're too busy fighting amongst ourselves to fight back against them and actually make things better for everyone. The reality is 95% of the people are in "the middle" (centrists) but those folks don't make sensational headlines. At this point your options are to buy into a rigged system or completely bug out try to exist off grid before they come for you too. It's sad but that's what we're stuck with because we got the politicians we all voted for...
Unless, of course, you were to dare to take a "third option"...
I tried that once and voted libertarian when I was less cynical and more idealistic... lesson learned. LOL!
Nailed it!
If your guns are outlawed, then embrace the fact that you're going to be a law breaker.
This is honestly the biggest difference I've seen between rural owners and less rural owners. For alot of people in the cities and suburbs, owning prohibited items isn't really viable if you intend to ever use them, especially if you have people who depend on you. I'm not saying people who would turn them in are better or worse than those who would just choose to be an outlaw, just that I understand individual circumstances plays a huge roll in making that decision.
if i could put this on a flag i would. well said
If you don't like any choices, then run.
Best we can do is Primary out the people we don't like and let them know why they got kicked out.
You can definitely vote blue in a blue state and keep guns - Vermont, Colorado… yes, even California, as difficult as it seems sometimes… but they’re out there. I’m not convinced purple is the way either because frankly, outside of 2A, I have nothing but contempt for republicans and usually the red mixed in to make the purple includes more than 2A defense. As much as it hurts, don’t be a single issue voter. Life is generally better overall when blue wins.
Folks like us don't have any one to vote for. That's just reality. I support the Proportional Representation Coalition (ProRep Coalition) and the California National Party because they are both working to change that, but neither is on the ballot yet.
Which side is trying to actively overthrow our government? There's no way Democrats are ever going to actually take your guns away. It would be impossible to actually facilitate. I'd rather keep my democracy, get rights for all, and healthcare while taking up the gun issue in the courts. I'm not going to support a dictatorship just to keep my guns. Worst case I go deep sea fishing and "accidentally dump them overboard" if you get my meaning...
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Still take my chances in the courts. I'm not voting for a Republican just because of gun rights.
My two cents is you don’t want to be a one issue person. I am similar person Colorado where the politicians are pushing for an Assault Weapon Ban. I have written to my local state rep and senator telling them I don’t support the weapons ban. But outside of that issue I am mostly happy with the direction Colorado is going. Better schools and health care. Otherwise here in Colorado you get the knucklehead repukes like boobert. So look at all or many of the issues and vote your preference. One more thing, is you mentioned several people as candidates, I don’t recognize any but Schiff, but think these guys are more on a Federal level, not necessarily the same people who are pushing laws within the State of California. As much as I hate hearing about gun bans , I hate the crap that comes out of the repukes mouth, WAY MORE. Current set of republican reps are proof they cannot govern. They negotiate a bill with border protection and they throw it away for political points. Bet they shut the federal government down as well.
Do your research and vote for the lesser evil for you, whether the candidate be Republican or Democrat.
Or independent…
Absolutely
I think you gotta vote blue. I own guns *because* conservatives own guns, and I don't trust them not to come after me later. My conservative friends, family and neighbors? I don't think they'd come after me. But I can't say for sure. But I sure as shit know they wouldn't do anything to aid me if they knew conservatives were coming to hunt me if it goes that way eventually. So I think of it this way: liberals at least want to take *everybody's* guns away, but conservatives will eventually want to take *just liberals'* guns away. Even if CA reps are advocating for a new bill like this, you can vote for them for all the other reasons, *and also* oppose them on this one legislative issue. Honestly, I'm not sure a registration requirement survives Second Amendment scrutiny if it imposes an annual license fee. A one-time registration fee, so long as it is reasonable, maybe. But I don't see even a left-leaning court upholding a statute that turns an enumerated Constitutional *right* into a wealth-based *privilege*. Unlike real estate and cars, the Constitution makes gun ownership a right - not a privilege, which means anything that unreasonably restricts ownership likely gets overturned. Not gonna lie, been thinking about moving back to California. But this legislation has me hesitant at the moment. I'm not even really opposed to registration; just the proposed fee. If it was something like $2-15 bucks per firearm, *maybe* I could deal with it. But unlike cars or houses, where a person reasonably has only one, it is not unreasonable to expect a person to have a handgun, a shotgun and a rifle (three tools for different jobs). And that assumes people don't come into possession through inheritance. Suddenly, you owe an annual fee on a 100-year-old shotgun that has sentimental value because it was your great granddad's, even if it's basically unshootable because it has a Damascus twist? Or what about collectors? I knew a gal who used to have the largest collection of antique Derringers in the United States in Orange County. Now she has to pay an annual fee for something that is no different for her than stamp collections and sports memorabilia is to other people? But I think you fight your battles one at a time. So, I'm still voting blue (FDT!). On this one thing, I'll lobby against it. And if it goes through, I'm sure I'll be able to find a gun rights law firm that will take me as a client (if I move back to CA) and litigate the constitutionality of a fee later. I'll take the NRA's money to pay lawyers on this one issue. And with this particular Supreme Court, I have few doubts a statute like this would get overturned.
Vote for 3rd party or independent candidates; suffice to say as a former resident of California I ended up joining a third party when I got old enough to vote because I honestly believe California is the prime example of both mainstream parties going completely off the deep end, and their first past the post voting methodology essentially allowing them to have two Democrats argue with each other over who’s more liberal/progressive than the other to win the most influential posts in the state. It also doesn’t help that CA is pretty much the last holdout that has a law enforcement lobby with a strong enough stranglehold over the state legislature that they can get away with continuing to uphold “rules for me but not for thee” exemptions that grant them even more protections than officers in most other states. Hell, it absolutely blew my mind when I found out a city cop had more exemptions from CA’s gun laws than a federal agent from a three letter law enforcement agency.
Ladies and gentleman, “r/liberalgunowners”
It’s hard. I usually go for the least gun grabbing democrat, but fall back to the least MAGA republican as an alternative.
I typically vote republican, I’m in the same boat. Biden is too old and not really functioning on all cylinders, but he’s STILL better than trump. Why republicans (or anyone ) wants the orange one is beyond me. I will probably vote independent. But I’m hearing that the far right is going to go nuts if trump loses, so that’s not good. By the way, I think this sub has shifted me from the right to the middle.
> I will probably vote independent. If you're aware of the stakes here, the only acceptable action is to vote for Biden. The only ethical thing to do is to attempt to keep Trump out of power, and that means voting for Biden.
and further legitimize the circus and continue the negative feedback loop. The only ethically acceptable thing to do is to vote 3rd party or not vote at all until such time as either 3rd parties become viable, or the entire system collapses and we can build something better from remains. Yes, things might get worse, possibly much worse, before they get better, but its the only path that actually leads to any sort of improvement in the long term. There is no longer a path that turns the US into a modern socialized state directly. That ship sailed over a decade ago. The corporations and the wealthy elite, have captured every aspect of our society. They've captured the politicians, the regulators, the government itself, etc. We will NEVER see socialized healthcare, wealth redistribution, real estate reform, or anything else that solves actual problems in this country. I voted for Joe Biden once using exactly the logic you stated, I'm GenZ and he kept zero of the promises that were made to my generation while bending over backwards to keep the boomers happy. It was at that point I realized things will never improve as long as the corporatist democrats are in power. I'm 24 now, the way I see it is that even if the rest of my 20s and my 30s are spent living in quasi fascist corporatist state, after the quasi fascist state inevitably collapses (as all fascist states do, because its a self consuming idealogy) the later half of my life will be spent in a better society that arises from that aftermath. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices now for gains later. Unchecked capitalism has so totally corrupted the average American that they can't even fathom thinking about anything other than short term gains.
Are you a single issue voter?
I don't know who these people are (Josh Harder, Rhodesia Ransom, Jerry McNerny, Carlos Villapadua, Adam Schiff or Katie Porter), but I don't see any reason why you can't vote 3rd party.
If you don't recognize at least one of those names, you have paid 0 attention to politics in the last... several... years.
I've heard of Adam Schiff and Katie Porter but I don't know anything about them.
Iirc they're running for Feinstein's Senate seat
Kennedy
✊
Honestly, at this point I might just vote for Luke Skywalker.
Goddamn, we must be the same person in different states. I'm a left leaning gun owner who works in a union as well!
Hello from WA state, I feel the exact same way. Good luck.
Let's look beyond the rhetoric and look closely at the *actions* made by the last republican and current democratic presidents. The standout action by Trump was the bump stock ban. This greatly expanded the scope of the ATF, as it allowed the ATF to make a firearm illegal based on an accessory. Before the bump stock ban, an accessory could be illegal (think suppressor), and a gun could be illegal, but an accessory could not make a gun illegal. That changed with the bump stock ban. The standout action by Biden was the decision that the ATF could only enforce laws written by congress, not create laws themselves. This threw out the bump stock ban, and severely curtailed excesses by the ATF moving forward. Rhetoric is just words. Actions speak louder than words.
I always suspect that people who feel conflicted on who to vote for just because of guns might have other right wing views that they aren't fessing up to. Yes, 2A rights are worth fighting for. Would I EVER vote for a Republican just because they are pro 2A? No, absolutely not. I own guns, but they don't impact my life in any meaningful way. For well over 99% of gun owners, none of us will ever use a firearm to save a life. Remember that.
RFK Jr. He’s pro body autonomy which includes trans rights and abortion. He’s pro second amendment. He’s pro environment and green tech. He’s anti foreign wars (save Israel/Hamas but I’m pretty sure that’s just to get elected because it doesn’t mesh with his feelings on Ukraine). Pro labor. Anti-hedge fund. Anti military industrial complex. For getting corporate money out of elections. And contrary to what many think, pro scientific research… The MSM hatchet jobs on his anti-vax stance fail to mention that he has no intention of banning vaccines. He just plans on directing the NIH to conduct double blind studies from birth through adulthood.
Please move to Oregon. Our measure 114 barely passed by less than 50,000 votes. If enough 2A liberals and California Republicans move to Oregon, we can shift the state purple and make it 2A-friendly.
Honestly it used to be that Republicans were staunch supporters of the Second Amendment, but we’re gradually seeing more Republican lawmakers vote in favor of harsher gun control, usually to get concessions from the Democrats on other issues.
I grudging vote, know that, even in a small way, voting falsely justifies an anti-democratic system that will never produce good. I vote for issues that stand a chance of doing some social good, against issues that further concentrate power in the hands of the elites, and, most importantly, against the worst authoritarians whenever possible (tough to do in my state since they *all* are the worst). But I won't think about the process beyond taking half an hour to look through and carefully read ballot propositions. While I think that voting as "harm reduction" is pretty much an illusion, it's at least a low-effort one that is useful in some cases. I don't expect much from it, though.
I first voted in 1972, and voted every election since, yes I vote a party line. But I do tell people like yourself, you decide the election, you are educated to the issues. JUST one order from an old guy, VOTE!!!!
What's more important, your guns? Or preventing the collapse of democracy and a genocide of black and brown people as well as the LGBTQ community? Those are the stakes. I'm holding my breath and voting blue no matter who because it is as much self defense for me as owning a gun is.
I vote Dem because the Republicans now actively want to kill transgender people, i.e. me! So if you voted Dem I would personally really appreciate it. I carry a gun *because* of Republicans.
Voting for the GOP is crazy given their extremist behavior, complacency, and ,oh, i dont know, their desire to take away your rights and subjugate women. There is no comparison. Do you want another trump embarrassment? We will be lucky if, elected, it's as tame as their last 4 agonizing years. The dems are the only option. Until ranked choice or other means are established to level the playing field. After we rid the world of the MAGA blight, we can work on a more centered and independent movement to build the inclusive society we all want.
For conscious reasons, I won't be voting for anyone this year.
It would be really funny if Robert F Kennedy Jr won.
Even NRA A rated Democrat rural t politicians like Kathy Hochul and Gillibrand of NY do a 180 as soon as they get real power. This comes from the top, whomever they are. They're the problem. No matter who wins it's going to be bad.
To really have better choices you need to get involved earlier. Maybe go to a caucus and help pick who the candidates will be. Guns unfortunately have become a Rep/Dem split issue.
Agreed, it is pretty harsh trying to find a pro 2A Dem in California. I'm in the 43rd District myself. But it was funny as sh#t watching Katie Porter and her while board make the head of the CDC her b#tch during COVID.
Cali is gonna take a lot to repair it so whatever would be best for now
Same boat here. Going to probably stick D unless we can get a 3rd party that isn't a nut job.
CA is pretty crazy with the latest laws and emissions items and stuff. I don’t think republicans could take control or undo any of that quickly, much of your laws are pushed to get done immediately without regard to the difficulty or cost it puts on your people. So I think voting Republican locally would not stop of the stuff you care about but it might put some adjustments or common sense for your crime or middle class. So I hate to recommend in a two party system but I think you should go Republican this run.
That said republicans that aren’t Trump cult too.
I’m done with voting for people because I disagree with 80% of their actions rather than 90%. Third party for me for sure although I don’t know which this early.
I'd probably go with Porter she isn't supporting an AWB and she's been pretty based dealing with corporate greed.
I’m right there with ya buddy. Both sides want to control us. Which is completely anti-constitutional. Our politicians should be held accountable for unconstitutional laws. Gun control is unconstitutional, at the same time so are segregation laws preventing trans people from using the correct bathroom. I’m really upset about where we’re headed.