i thought the left wanted to take it from billionaires, the big reservoir then siphon that excess to the government then to trickle down to us.
why is the left pro tax the poor if that isnt egalitarian?
something smells funny.
Nah it should be “take it from billionaires to cut down on the inflation that results from us printing money to fund benefits for you, and maybe take away sales tax too if the math works out”
I mean they are necessary to an extent. But I also agree income taxes are also ridiculous. The company alone should be taxed. Local stores should be state taxes, and corporations should pay federal taxes. At a fixed rate of 10% with no exemptions.
Sales tax would be easier to sell at first to the establishment, considering it would lift barriers to trade
We still need to build roads and etc. in many cases, ir has proven more expensive to privatize massive public works projects that improve peoples lives/health/economy
The gubbimint burns through eighteen-odd BILLION dollars a day. All the billionaires don't have enough money to make a difference anyway. Further, 2 things would happen all over each other if they tried to confiscate the wealth: a) Billionaires can move their money faster than the government can decide to confiscate it; b) the value of all their assets (smart rich people don't keep their money in passbook savings accounts) would depreciate MASSIVELY as the government liquidated stocks, real estate holdings, etc.
The harm to middle class 401K's would terribly outweigh the temporary gain. Finally, this trick works badly ONCE. Few people would invest in American assets afterwards for fear of repeat.
Because the rich don't have huge vaults of cash (especially right now) or billion-dollar incomes; they have assets. Taxing wealth will destroy jobs and industry en masse and push the rich to move their assets out of the US.
Does anyone get the feeling that the true problem behind rising wealth inequality is simply from increased monopolization of such assets over the past few decades?
The DNC has never passed a single tax bill that didn't completely fuck over the lower and middle classes. Basically 100% of taxes are regressive. There is no such thing as a progressive tax.
There is none, as “trickledown” is a parody, not a real economic strategy.
It is making fun of the idea that if you don’t go overkill on taxing the rich, they end up paying more in taxes as they aren’t punished for profiting. I think Sowell has a video on this.
Video of Mr. Sowell and "trickle down" theory:
https://youtu.be/nZPDpk8NA-g
Video of Mr. Sowell "Tax cuts for the rich" portion and "Trickle down" portion:
https://youtu.be/rc-bELgAowU
Cato is far-right? Or are you referring to your own links?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NumbersUSA
_NumbersUSA is an anti-immigration advocacy organization_
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breitbart_News
_Breitbart News Network (known commonly as Breitbart News, Breitbart, or Breitbart.com) is an American far-right syndicated news, opinion and commentary website founded in mid-2007 by American conservative commentator Andrew Breitbart, who conceived it as "the Huffington Post of the right". Its journalists are widely considered to be ideologically driven, and much of its content has been called misogynistic, xenophobic, and racist by liberals and traditional conservatives alike. The site has published a number of conspiracy theories and intentionally misleading stories_
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_for_American_Immigration_Reform
_The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) is a non profit, anti-immigration organization in the United States. The group publishes position papers, organizes events, and runs campaigns in order to advocate for changes in U.S. immigration policy. The Southern Poverty Law Center classifies FAIR as a hate group with close ties to white supremacist groups._
_FAIR was founded in 1979 by Michigan surgeon and white nationalist John Tanton._
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/25/australians-are-getting-poorer-but-it-has-nothing-to-do-with-immigrants
Refutation of Leith Van Onselen, author of the macrobusiness.com.au
I think that's part of the point. More money for government means more subsidies for everyone, but only a fraction of it for the people they claim to be helping.
There are lots of very valid ways to critique socialist policies and welfare programs and so on, but this is worse than a strawman. Entire departments are created specifically to make sure that money gets given to exactly the people that the bills that created it stated it should go to. This tweet either represents someone that knows absolutely nothing about legislation, or is intentionally being rhetorically obtuse and bad faith.
>Entire departments are created specifically to make sure that money gets given to exactly the people that the bills that created it stated it should go to.
And a bunch of that money stays with the workers of those departments and never makes it to the people they were supposed to help. In unrelated news, the DC suburbs are the wealthiest neighborhoods in the country
Some of those workers are providing the services the department needs.
Taking your comment to the nth degree would mean we don't have workers for unemployment offices, for example, people just get the money when they ask for it without having to go through means testing.
Yes they do. They get paid well to do their jobs. If you're arguing that they should get paid less, I don't follow. If you're arguing that their entire departments shouldn't exist, I'd say that's a valid but entirely different debate.
My point is simply that this tweet obviously doesn't represent how government works. You don't just create a department and then give fat stacks for "DC suburb" people to sit on their assess. There are massive mechanisms put in place for transparency and follow-through so that money gets injected into exactly where bills say they should go. When that system fails, it's either because a) the bill was poorly written, or because b) it was too ambitious and impossible to track, such as the PPP loans which, upon audit, were found to be misused. In either case it goes to "sunset" and gets taken back to the floor and its relative success is used to inform future bills.
“You don’t just create a department and then give fat stacks for “DC suburb” people to sit in their ass”
The EPA, ATF, FDA, SEC etc. all exist to make defacto policy in the form of regulations. These organizations of entirely unelected effectively make laws. For the most egregious example look up ATF opinion letters. These “regulations” should be voted in by congress according to the constitution. While groups of unelected officials make laws, congress only sits 100 days a year. These three letter agencies exist in large part so congress doesn’t have to do their jobs.
Wow how does it feel to be schooled so hard?!?!?!? I used to be a libertarian before this comment chain but after reading your thought-out comments and the incredibly factual and well-sourced rebuttal to you made me see the error of my and your ways.
What wasn’t factual about what I said?
The EPA, FDA, SEC, and ATF exist, fact
They all set regulations, fact
The people that set these regulations are appointed, not elected, fact
These regulations are enforced through fines and arrests, fact
Therefore unelected make defacto laws. Their policies are enforced the same way laws are, so what’s the difference? Congress is the only body of the US government authorized by the constitution to make laws.
None of this is conspiracy shit.
I’m not sure how anybody would have a factual response to “Turn Fox News” beyond “I don’t watch Fox News.”
Just because "entire departments" are created to do something, doesn't mean that they do it well, or inexpensively.
And, you are also missing the point: the government is taking in trillions and "trickling down" billions.
Lol. Yup, you give the government $100 to do something and they create a bunch of departments, fill them with salaried employees with crazy benefits, buy a bunch of equipment via a no bid contracts, and by the time they get around to doing that original something, there is maybe $2 left. And that is best case scenario. Most of the time there is $0 left and then they borrow an additional $5000 to cover the bureaucracy they created by the time they spend even a $1 on that something.
“This guy has ignored 50 years of rampant abuse and misuse of taxpayer dollars by the federal government and bases his viewpoints off of blind faith in a clearly broken system, how rational” - you
i think hes just wondering why you think thats the lefts fault when the right and the center are the only two groups who have had any power in the last 50 years you mention.
corporate welfare and ill utilization of government services are both right wing policies
Is don’t mention “the left” or “democrats” anywhere in my comment. Also TIL Bill Clinton, barrack Obama, and Joe Biden are right wingers. Misuse of government is a bipartisan issue. Corporate welfare is also bipartisan. Last time I checked Barrack Obama was president in 2009 when hundreds of billions of bailouts were given to banks. The left and the right are both equally responsible for the corruption and misuse of taxpayer dollars. Get out of here with your democrat shilling.
obama is fairly neolib center
also not left
and Clinton signed more bills for republicans than any other administration in terms of "bi partisan..."
oh but wait. really it was the whole BJ thing being used as leverage.
also not left.
joe biden? the guy who supported the iraq war started by republicans?
also not left.
Bernie is left. and hes one of the few. and their policies have never been put into action.
otherwise you'd have healthcare and possibly access to an education.
I see, you lost the point so you’re moving the goalposts, typical leftie lol. Your definitions don’t matter to anybody but you. The politicians I mentioned are on the left wing of American politics, and that’s a fact.
I do have healthcare and an education because I procedure a service in exchange for currency that I can exchange for those things. I don’t rely on government handouts, make you should try it.
well if you frame every fact within a narrow window of your choosing its almost like your intentionally manipulating yourself
obama is center. American politics is you narrowing the frame to prove a point that only redemonstrates that you are wrong.
just now your aware of it.
and i cant try it. im a vet.
one whose old enough to know why your wrong, and young enough to still care enough to explain it to you.
We are talking about the two American political parties, your attempt to move the goalposts as to what’s “the left” is clearly a bad faith attempt to discredit my argument. The American mainstream left is the Democratic Party, the American mainstream right is the Republican Party. Democrats and republicans are both corrupt, therefore the American left and the American right are both corrupt. We are talking about American politics and parties, any definition outside of that is irrelevant. You are attempting to change the definition to suit your argument, while I am using the popularly accepted definitions. Obama might be more towards the center than you’d like, but he ran under a democrat platform as a left leaning candidate. Center left is still left.
I’m a veteran too, former 68w. I don’t give a fuck about your service, don’t use it as an excuse to be a leach. Honestly pathetic. I personally know at least 8 disabled vets who lead productive lives and do very well for themselves, don’t make excuses.
You can talk about how American politics are trending towards the center, and I don’t think that’s necessarily wrong, but right now there is a clear right and left wing in America, they something’s overlap a bit but anybody who can’t see the difference is an idiot. That being said both sides are equally corrupt and authoritarian, just with different goals.
there was a right wing coup attempt. they are literally moving to the right.
also must be nice.
now take your gi bill, take your maggot ass to school and recognize 1: that your wrong, 2: how you can get better
you might find either or and possibly both inside a political science class.
and lastly your IMO shouda taught you about self doxxing.
the problem is billionaires paying millions to entities like fox and cnn for you to download a slow drip of capitalism and or hate condensed into a trickle down media consumption of you here now.
there is left, there is lib, and there is conservative.
actually we could use a 6 point graph and demonstrate many groups but ima dumb this down for ya
acting like your binary world view is better is just your pride sticking it to ya. "hurr hurr in America its only left and right hurr hurr"
no the fuck it isnt.
your political models look like fucking roman numerals to us over here who are educated on the topic. we using base ten. u take forever to get simple math wrong. we dont. see the systems difference?
but it also explains why you wrong and dont know it.
the reason you think its "okay / acceptable" to use that model is something you can thank your local billionaire.
Leftie’s move the goal posts by identifying politicians that are not leftist? Speaking about American politicians in the global sense is fair play. Not my fault or /u/HuntingGreyFace’s fault that america’s overton window is so fucked.
I have both healthcare and access to education, just like every other responsible adult in the US. God forbid you people actually have to work and pay for something in your pathetic lives. You parasites go straight from mommy and daddy taking care of you to expecting someone else's family take care of you by using the government to browbeat more taxes out of them.
lol y’all would rather trust corporate overlords where votes do nothing instead of politicians you can vote out… Not gonna be shamed for aiming for a political system where people are actually helped.
“how rational” - getting that reply in a libertarian meme sub HA. Spare me.
Companies have departments to do the exact same thing. Either trickle down economics works or it doesnt. This comment either represents someone who knows absolutely nothing about business, or is intentionally being rhetorically obtuse and bad faith.
Sorry, what?
First of all, companies don't give away money that's literally the opposite of what they do.
Second of all, I'm not making an argument for or against trickle-down economics, just against this tweet's bad logic.
edited for typo
You're missing the point, the lefts criticism of trickle down economics is that corporations don't have an obligation to share their wealth with their workers. He's saying the same thing but with government taxes and citizenry.
What's the guarantee that the government will trickle the money it took from you into various social programs you likely desire, instead of using said money to bail out scummy corporations, the military industrial complex, or having it's politicians spend it on themselves?
He isn't saying the left invented trickle down economics. He's saying they have a trickle down theory of their own.
The problem, as ever, is rampant capitalism and regulatory capture. The government, unlike corporations, should be able to be held accountable but for our broken economic system that only funnels wealth to the top as ensured by conservative policies that repeatedly redistribute wealth upward and purposefully undermine beneficial social programs and infrastructure in the name of corporate profit.
This asshole's whole point is founded on a willfully ignorant strawman with no bearing on reality. Kind of libertarianism in general.
>The government, unlike corporations, should be able to be held accountable
Why would you expect an entity with no competition, no incentive to improve, that imposes its will using violence, to be held accountable?
> If you don't believe that the state is holy and righteous, go somewhere that others don't worship it as I do.
Fuck the state. You cannot articulate an objective right for it to exist. When you can, I'll leave. Until then, you're just another quasi-religious true believer in the divinity of political authority.
I don't like the state, I won't say it has a "right to exist", I understand it is corrupt and inefficient, but it is unfortunately the best option we have IMO. Blame it on the human condition, I suppose. Trickle down economics has failed and we have to do something else before the middle class disappears into debt oblivion (which we already have)
So, why are you telling people to leave if they don't like it?
No one here is defending "trickle down economics" because it's a meaningless term made up by economic ignoramuses.
> we have to do something else before the middle class disappears into debt oblivion
End the Fed. Restore sound money. It is the only way, and has always been the only way. Government controls money so that it can create endless debt and destroy your savings through inflation so that it can fund warfare and welfare without ever going bankrupt. Until it's paper money returns to it's nominal value. Paper money always fails.
So we've found your bottom line. It's wealth Creation.
Some would argue that fiat currency creates infinite wealth.
It's just current economic systems a la crony capitalism ensure that it's centred on the few.
Exactly. Most wealthy people have like 90% of their "money" tied up in stocks, bonds, income property and other such investments. Their "money" is what fuels basically the entire economy.
Yeah. It is that dumb.
i thought the left wanted to take it from billionaires, the big reservoir then siphon that excess to the government then to trickle down to us. why is the left pro tax the poor if that isnt egalitarian? something smells funny.
Nah it should be “take it from billionaires to cut down on the inflation that results from us printing money to fund benefits for you, and maybe take away sales tax too if the math works out”
Property tax first. Kinda really BS that you have to pay taxes every year on something you allegedly own.
And income tax. Ideally there would be no taxes, but I could find it acceptable to have a flat sales tax across all goods
I mean they are necessary to an extent. But I also agree income taxes are also ridiculous. The company alone should be taxed. Local stores should be state taxes, and corporations should pay federal taxes. At a fixed rate of 10% with no exemptions.
My dream government is what Ron swnanson said, a single guy who decides who we nuke.
Sales tax would be easier to sell at first to the establishment, considering it would lift barriers to trade We still need to build roads and etc. in many cases, ir has proven more expensive to privatize massive public works projects that improve peoples lives/health/economy
I like how trickle down economics was a term invented by the left so they had something to argue against
i didn't realize everyone was flush with cash
The gubbimint burns through eighteen-odd BILLION dollars a day. All the billionaires don't have enough money to make a difference anyway. Further, 2 things would happen all over each other if they tried to confiscate the wealth: a) Billionaires can move their money faster than the government can decide to confiscate it; b) the value of all their assets (smart rich people don't keep their money in passbook savings accounts) would depreciate MASSIVELY as the government liquidated stocks, real estate holdings, etc. The harm to middle class 401K's would terribly outweigh the temporary gain. Finally, this trick works badly ONCE. Few people would invest in American assets afterwards for fear of repeat.
>why is the left pro tax the poor We're not. The DNC seems unable to pass radically affective tax-the-rich bills, insert your own explanation here.
Because the rich don't have huge vaults of cash (especially right now) or billion-dollar incomes; they have assets. Taxing wealth will destroy jobs and industry en masse and push the rich to move their assets out of the US.
Liberals: What do you mean, those billionaires have got to have trillions. We just need to find all that they are hiding from us.
How much are you hiding from me is the bigger question comrade
Does anyone get the feeling that the true problem behind rising wealth inequality is simply from increased monopolization of such assets over the past few decades?
The DNC has never passed a single tax bill that didn't completely fuck over the lower and middle classes. Basically 100% of taxes are regressive. There is no such thing as a progressive tax.
The most regressively taxed state is Washington, which is also the Bluest by some measures. So not just a national D thing.
Democrat solution: plug all leaks, take all money
Trickle down economics does work.....as long as the legislature stops spending as if there is no tomorrow.
Give me the name of one credible economist who proposes “Trickle Down economics” as a viable means to uplift the poor.
There is none, as “trickledown” is a parody, not a real economic strategy. It is making fun of the idea that if you don’t go overkill on taxing the rich, they end up paying more in taxes as they aren’t punished for profiting. I think Sowell has a video on this.
Video of Mr. Sowell and "trickle down" theory: https://youtu.be/nZPDpk8NA-g Video of Mr. Sowell "Tax cuts for the rich" portion and "Trickle down" portion: https://youtu.be/rc-bELgAowU
Also interested in the answer to this.
Not gonna get one.
Define "credible" without bias.
Someone like Thomas Sowell or Peter Schiff.
It’s takes money to make money. If anything, wealth trickles upwards
Trickle down economics does work…..as long as you’re willing to let poor people die for the machine.
We can easily solve this ff we simply reclassify being poor as chattle. And boom your society no longer has poor people in it. /s
Better yet support the average person by reducing immigration and allowing for scarcity to raise the value of labor.
Careful, you can get banned for that kind of Groupthink!
https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/fall-2017/does-immigration-reduce-wages#
[удалено]
Cato is far-right? Or are you referring to your own links? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NumbersUSA _NumbersUSA is an anti-immigration advocacy organization_ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breitbart_News _Breitbart News Network (known commonly as Breitbart News, Breitbart, or Breitbart.com) is an American far-right syndicated news, opinion and commentary website founded in mid-2007 by American conservative commentator Andrew Breitbart, who conceived it as "the Huffington Post of the right". Its journalists are widely considered to be ideologically driven, and much of its content has been called misogynistic, xenophobic, and racist by liberals and traditional conservatives alike. The site has published a number of conspiracy theories and intentionally misleading stories_ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_for_American_Immigration_Reform _The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) is a non profit, anti-immigration organization in the United States. The group publishes position papers, organizes events, and runs campaigns in order to advocate for changes in U.S. immigration policy. The Southern Poverty Law Center classifies FAIR as a hate group with close ties to white supremacist groups._ _FAIR was founded in 1979 by Michigan surgeon and white nationalist John Tanton._ https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/25/australians-are-getting-poorer-but-it-has-nothing-to-do-with-immigrants Refutation of Leith Van Onselen, author of the macrobusiness.com.au
They also funnel into corporations. Dont let them trick you.
I think that's part of the point. More money for government means more subsidies for everyone, but only a fraction of it for the people they claim to be helping.
Money is a social construct
Does that give someone else a right to what you produce?
Fuck no. I just hate the trivial arguments about who’s economic ideas are better. I threw out a lazy return to monke answer.
They will so no unless you ask them about something they consider a human right
Well Did you produce it all by yourself? Or did you produce part of the finished product as part of someone else’s team?
Lets say an uninvolved third party of any kind.
Then it’s yours
and a good one
There are lots of very valid ways to critique socialist policies and welfare programs and so on, but this is worse than a strawman. Entire departments are created specifically to make sure that money gets given to exactly the people that the bills that created it stated it should go to. This tweet either represents someone that knows absolutely nothing about legislation, or is intentionally being rhetorically obtuse and bad faith.
>Entire departments are created specifically to make sure that money gets given to exactly the people that the bills that created it stated it should go to. And a bunch of that money stays with the workers of those departments and never makes it to the people they were supposed to help. In unrelated news, the DC suburbs are the wealthiest neighborhoods in the country
Some of those workers are providing the services the department needs. Taking your comment to the nth degree would mean we don't have workers for unemployment offices, for example, people just get the money when they ask for it without having to go through means testing.
I work in government auditing. That would be a public scandal.
Its not a scandal that government department workers get paid, and get paid very well
Yes they do. They get paid well to do their jobs. If you're arguing that they should get paid less, I don't follow. If you're arguing that their entire departments shouldn't exist, I'd say that's a valid but entirely different debate. My point is simply that this tweet obviously doesn't represent how government works. You don't just create a department and then give fat stacks for "DC suburb" people to sit on their assess. There are massive mechanisms put in place for transparency and follow-through so that money gets injected into exactly where bills say they should go. When that system fails, it's either because a) the bill was poorly written, or because b) it was too ambitious and impossible to track, such as the PPP loans which, upon audit, were found to be misused. In either case it goes to "sunset" and gets taken back to the floor and its relative success is used to inform future bills.
That explains the 10% of medicare money that is wasted on fraud.
“You don’t just create a department and then give fat stacks for “DC suburb” people to sit in their ass” The EPA, ATF, FDA, SEC etc. all exist to make defacto policy in the form of regulations. These organizations of entirely unelected effectively make laws. For the most egregious example look up ATF opinion letters. These “regulations” should be voted in by congress according to the constitution. While groups of unelected officials make laws, congress only sits 100 days a year. These three letter agencies exist in large part so congress doesn’t have to do their jobs.
Turn off Fox News.
I don’t watch Fox News, thanks for the advice tho. Can you point out where I’m wrong, or do you just love to suck the government off?
Wow how does it feel to be schooled so hard?!?!?!? I used to be a libertarian before this comment chain but after reading your thought-out comments and the incredibly factual and well-sourced rebuttal to you made me see the error of my and your ways.
What wasn’t factual about what I said? The EPA, FDA, SEC, and ATF exist, fact They all set regulations, fact The people that set these regulations are appointed, not elected, fact These regulations are enforced through fines and arrests, fact Therefore unelected make defacto laws. Their policies are enforced the same way laws are, so what’s the difference? Congress is the only body of the US government authorized by the constitution to make laws. None of this is conspiracy shit. I’m not sure how anybody would have a factual response to “Turn Fox News” beyond “I don’t watch Fox News.”
Just because "entire departments" are created to do something, doesn't mean that they do it well, or inexpensively. And, you are also missing the point: the government is taking in trillions and "trickling down" billions.
Lol. Yup, you give the government $100 to do something and they create a bunch of departments, fill them with salaried employees with crazy benefits, buy a bunch of equipment via a no bid contracts, and by the time they get around to doing that original something, there is maybe $2 left. And that is best case scenario. Most of the time there is $0 left and then they borrow an additional $5000 to cover the bureaucracy they created by the time they spend even a $1 on that something.
I did not expect a rational response in this sub when I came here from r/all rising...kudos
“This guy has ignored 50 years of rampant abuse and misuse of taxpayer dollars by the federal government and bases his viewpoints off of blind faith in a clearly broken system, how rational” - you
i think hes just wondering why you think thats the lefts fault when the right and the center are the only two groups who have had any power in the last 50 years you mention. corporate welfare and ill utilization of government services are both right wing policies
Is don’t mention “the left” or “democrats” anywhere in my comment. Also TIL Bill Clinton, barrack Obama, and Joe Biden are right wingers. Misuse of government is a bipartisan issue. Corporate welfare is also bipartisan. Last time I checked Barrack Obama was president in 2009 when hundreds of billions of bailouts were given to banks. The left and the right are both equally responsible for the corruption and misuse of taxpayer dollars. Get out of here with your democrat shilling.
obama is fairly neolib center also not left and Clinton signed more bills for republicans than any other administration in terms of "bi partisan..." oh but wait. really it was the whole BJ thing being used as leverage. also not left. joe biden? the guy who supported the iraq war started by republicans? also not left. Bernie is left. and hes one of the few. and their policies have never been put into action. otherwise you'd have healthcare and possibly access to an education.
I see, you lost the point so you’re moving the goalposts, typical leftie lol. Your definitions don’t matter to anybody but you. The politicians I mentioned are on the left wing of American politics, and that’s a fact. I do have healthcare and an education because I procedure a service in exchange for currency that I can exchange for those things. I don’t rely on government handouts, make you should try it.
well if you frame every fact within a narrow window of your choosing its almost like your intentionally manipulating yourself obama is center. American politics is you narrowing the frame to prove a point that only redemonstrates that you are wrong. just now your aware of it. and i cant try it. im a vet. one whose old enough to know why your wrong, and young enough to still care enough to explain it to you.
We are talking about the two American political parties, your attempt to move the goalposts as to what’s “the left” is clearly a bad faith attempt to discredit my argument. The American mainstream left is the Democratic Party, the American mainstream right is the Republican Party. Democrats and republicans are both corrupt, therefore the American left and the American right are both corrupt. We are talking about American politics and parties, any definition outside of that is irrelevant. You are attempting to change the definition to suit your argument, while I am using the popularly accepted definitions. Obama might be more towards the center than you’d like, but he ran under a democrat platform as a left leaning candidate. Center left is still left. I’m a veteran too, former 68w. I don’t give a fuck about your service, don’t use it as an excuse to be a leach. Honestly pathetic. I personally know at least 8 disabled vets who lead productive lives and do very well for themselves, don’t make excuses. You can talk about how American politics are trending towards the center, and I don’t think that’s necessarily wrong, but right now there is a clear right and left wing in America, they something’s overlap a bit but anybody who can’t see the difference is an idiot. That being said both sides are equally corrupt and authoritarian, just with different goals.
there was a right wing coup attempt. they are literally moving to the right. also must be nice. now take your gi bill, take your maggot ass to school and recognize 1: that your wrong, 2: how you can get better you might find either or and possibly both inside a political science class. and lastly your IMO shouda taught you about self doxxing. the problem is billionaires paying millions to entities like fox and cnn for you to download a slow drip of capitalism and or hate condensed into a trickle down media consumption of you here now. there is left, there is lib, and there is conservative. actually we could use a 6 point graph and demonstrate many groups but ima dumb this down for ya acting like your binary world view is better is just your pride sticking it to ya. "hurr hurr in America its only left and right hurr hurr" no the fuck it isnt. your political models look like fucking roman numerals to us over here who are educated on the topic. we using base ten. u take forever to get simple math wrong. we dont. see the systems difference? but it also explains why you wrong and dont know it. the reason you think its "okay / acceptable" to use that model is something you can thank your local billionaire.
Leftie’s move the goal posts by identifying politicians that are not leftist? Speaking about American politicians in the global sense is fair play. Not my fault or /u/HuntingGreyFace’s fault that america’s overton window is so fucked.
I have both healthcare and access to education, just like every other responsible adult in the US. God forbid you people actually have to work and pay for something in your pathetic lives. You parasites go straight from mommy and daddy taking care of you to expecting someone else's family take care of you by using the government to browbeat more taxes out of them.
lol y’all would rather trust corporate overlords where votes do nothing instead of politicians you can vote out… Not gonna be shamed for aiming for a political system where people are actually helped. “how rational” - getting that reply in a libertarian meme sub HA. Spare me.
Companies have departments to do the exact same thing. Either trickle down economics works or it doesnt. This comment either represents someone who knows absolutely nothing about business, or is intentionally being rhetorically obtuse and bad faith.
Sorry, what? First of all, companies don't give away money that's literally the opposite of what they do. Second of all, I'm not making an argument for or against trickle-down economics, just against this tweet's bad logic. edited for typo
Trickle down economics was invented by the right. Try harder.
You're missing the point, the lefts criticism of trickle down economics is that corporations don't have an obligation to share their wealth with their workers. He's saying the same thing but with government taxes and citizenry. What's the guarantee that the government will trickle the money it took from you into various social programs you likely desire, instead of using said money to bail out scummy corporations, the military industrial complex, or having it's politicians spend it on themselves? He isn't saying the left invented trickle down economics. He's saying they have a trickle down theory of their own.
The problem, as ever, is rampant capitalism and regulatory capture. The government, unlike corporations, should be able to be held accountable but for our broken economic system that only funnels wealth to the top as ensured by conservative policies that repeatedly redistribute wealth upward and purposefully undermine beneficial social programs and infrastructure in the name of corporate profit. This asshole's whole point is founded on a willfully ignorant strawman with no bearing on reality. Kind of libertarianism in general.
>The government, unlike corporations, should be able to be held accountable Why would you expect an entity with no competition, no incentive to improve, that imposes its will using violence, to be held accountable?
move to Uganda or rural Afghanistan. The government won't bother you there.
You've heard of the Taliban, right?
their taxes are low and you can have all the guns you want...what's the problem?
Don't even have to go that far, they can just move to Grafton, NH
> If you don't believe that the state is holy and righteous, go somewhere that others don't worship it as I do. Fuck the state. You cannot articulate an objective right for it to exist. When you can, I'll leave. Until then, you're just another quasi-religious true believer in the divinity of political authority.
I don't like the state, I won't say it has a "right to exist", I understand it is corrupt and inefficient, but it is unfortunately the best option we have IMO. Blame it on the human condition, I suppose. Trickle down economics has failed and we have to do something else before the middle class disappears into debt oblivion (which we already have)
So, why are you telling people to leave if they don't like it? No one here is defending "trickle down economics" because it's a meaningless term made up by economic ignoramuses. > we have to do something else before the middle class disappears into debt oblivion End the Fed. Restore sound money. It is the only way, and has always been the only way. Government controls money so that it can create endless debt and destroy your savings through inflation so that it can fund warfare and welfare without ever going bankrupt. Until it's paper money returns to it's nominal value. Paper money always fails.
Return to sound money? Hunter gatherer society and gift economies would love to speak to you.
What do those have to do with sound money?
All exist before government controlled fiat money but aren't "sound money"
Neither generate much wealth beyond subsistence level.
So we've found your bottom line. It's wealth Creation. Some would argue that fiat currency creates infinite wealth. It's just current economic systems a la crony capitalism ensure that it's centred on the few.
They can argue it, they can't prove it. Say's law would be the counter.
Or at least you won't know when you die by getting drone striked. Ignorance is bliss.
this whole sub is a great example of that last part
I can't tell if this post is pro wealthy people hoarding money or or pro UBI
Wealthy people don't hoard money.
Exactly. Most wealthy people have like 90% of their "money" tied up in stocks, bonds, income property and other such investments. Their "money" is what fuels basically the entire economy.
Didn't we have a 89% marginal tax in the 70's and 80's? Like, didn't that help pay for these highways and our trips to the moon?
Tax receipts as a percent of GDP have never varied by much. People in previous decades had all sorts of tax shelters to protect their income.
Oh dear sweet nick, if only you knew how calenders worked and could file forms in time, woulda smoked spanberger
It's tax cuts for the rich because the rich pay most of the taxes.