It'd be neat if Garden of Thorns had a variable sin affinity to work with whatever resonance you're doing. Since it's Lust, you're a little railroaded into Lust Resonance just because the attack itself is Lust, making it easier to do.
*I dunno man, being able to instantly evacuate all party memebers from the field and allow WhiteKnight himself to descend to bring about the end of days is kinda busted for a passive. I'd rather have Gregor calling the rapture down on the City rather than sin affinity changing.*
Especially since the last effect that makes it last longer requires A-res. In focused encounters it won't even be possible to trigger it on any affinity except lust.
I have decided to check this, and for sanity's sake, I narrowed this down exclusively to teams that Gregor can be put on.
LCB - Yeah this one is pretty obvious.
Liu - Yes, though you will have precisely 1 envy skill.
G Corp - Covers a total of 4 sin resources. Can't work.
RB - Same as above.
Rosespanner - According to limbus.kusoge.xyz, this is not a faction. Regardless, these cover a total of 5 sin resources. Won't work.
Zwei - Covers 6, missing pride.
Twinhooks Pirates - Gregor is the only Twinhooks Pirates ID
Kurokumo Clan - Only 5 sin resources.
If we simply say "every faction with at least 6 members" and ignore the Gregor requirement, then this is true, but there's also a total of 5 factions that meet that requirement and only 2 that include Gregor.
Well, they will surely fill out other factions too (cough, shi, cough) and then we'll have some decent options for Sign of Roses EGO. For now you could do some horribly mismatching bleed team (for instance, KK Ryoshu and Greg, R Meur and TT/Hook Hong Lu and 2 flex spots, don't play bleed teams too often so idk)
Oh of course it isn't worth it, the only case I could make for it is it being both your only mass nuke option and your only healing option, and even then the SP cost can and will screw you in a bossfight. Kinda disappointing for the first WAW gacha EGO for such a cool boss
if you wanted a rupture team, which the passive encourages, rupture + either KongLu, Red Sheet Sinclair or LCCB Ish gets every sin, and Gregor's own sins wouldn't matter on this team, you'll just have a hard time generating pride.
>Pride ×3 Res.
>1 ally with the most SP deals +10% damage with E.G.O Skills, If the E.G.O Skill consumes 7+ E.G.O resources, deal additional +5% damage.
Magic Bullet Outis support passive stonks rising /j
Burn teams now having access to every Sin affinity seems pretty nice. Only time will tell if this ends up making Gregor better to run over Meursault and his Regret + Capote combo.
Which honestly isn't that terrible a thing. Sunshower rolls higher but Ya Sunyata on a Lust team is exactly where it needs to be, it costs no sanity and inflict Lust Fragility and with Gregor giving damage up you basically have a Lust burst
Yep, it's SP positive too (costs 15, heals 18). The Corrosion is great too for nuking even harder, with its additional Fragile infliction.
Outis' EGOs are honestly goated with potential; Her Base EGO passive with its synergy with winning every clash and not taking an ounce of damage; her Ebony Stem with its immense Atk Weight and godly passive synergizing with her numerous Pierce skills and having Bind and Rupture support. Her Holiday is also pretty nice, synergizing with the Burn team's Wrath resonance, and having good support with Dmg Up and SP healing. Sry, just wanted to gush about Outis~
Nah I get you, I really like her and how her EGO and IDs all fit into this tactical aspect. Get a number of valuable buffs on her and use them to deal single but devastating blows (she even has single coin skills on all of her IDs so far).
Cinq Outis with triple Tactical Perfection, Ebony's Stem Pierce DMG, and Ya Sunata Lust DMG UP using her single coin S3 is a beauty to behold. She tends to have a low number of coin to balance this out but the utility and damage she can consistently bring in her ID is really amazing.
Ahhh~ the good old days of ruina buff stacking~ I wouldn't even mind if Outis gets a "bad/niche" EGO/ID next season, she’s already got a lot of good stuff. Although, a Bleed ID for her might be in order, to at least synergize with her Ebony Stem's Extra bleed infliction.
Giving 1 each wouldn't be too cheap, having Sins spread over multiple types makes them way harder to gather, and this EGO *is* substantially weaker than both Blind Obsession and Sunshower.
oh shit mb (not gonna delete this one tho, remark this so no one does the same oopsie)
https://preview.redd.it/ibv9phhnd8oc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=045517916afd53b4d397fa908338d009f7c1766c
5 reson is not that easy to get, the cost is too high for smth of this nature, moreover its spread over all affinities, u have to focus on a team with high reson (preferably lust) and to have enough affinity to fuel the ego itself. BO is cheaper, doesnt require reson, can be used any time, recover sp (which is often enough more important than hp) and would be better than the effect this Waw have unless it is 6 reson (which would require a whole lust team). u see the problem ?
That's the key problem right there it needs 5 resonance for sth that blind obsession can get at any time, with any team set up. Resonance should give you better reward than stuff other ego just get by default. If not then it should be much cheaper
>this at 5+ resonance would be same level as Blind Obsession.
30 vs 35 Roll
Refunds SP vs doesn't (SP is way more important than HP)
11 cost vs 14 cost from all 7 sins
Requires 5 RES vs doesn't require anything
Doesn't even have an "additional" effect like BO's Poise and Charge
Yeah, I don't think so.
Exactly. I mixed things and said stupid stuff cause I read the Damage Up from the Garden of Thorns as Resource Up for some reason, it was a stupid moment (and 3 am on my end)
There's a lot of things I do not like from the looks of it:
- 14 Sin cost Total 2 of EVERY sin is kinda insane, because you need even sin affinity spread making it hard for teams that can't fuel it efficiently. Like 1 of each + (# of Highest Resonance/2 round up) would be more manageable IMO
-Being Lust Affinity ruins Garden of Thorns' gimmick, by forcing him into Lust Resonance teams to get the full use of that +6 Resonance condition. I think they should've made him into the first Neutral Sin Skill where it changes Sin Affinity based on the highest Resonance
-Both the Sin cost and gimmick conflict with each other, while the cost wants you to use an even sin spread but his conditionals reward you for having a high Resonance count. Making the Cost 7 of the Highest Resonance or Reducing the cost based on the Resonance
Yeah, the EGO isn’t really appropriate right now if your intention is to make use of the sin power up. Not that the conditions can’t eventually be met, but we’ll need a rather wide sin spread where the majority of the IDs have lust on their S1 or S2 (or double up on it, like Pequod Heath, Der Outis, and BL Meursault), and the other sins are able to provide for all the other sin affinities we’d need to fuel the EGO.
Either that or we’ll rely more on switching up members for the team to meet the fuel needs of the EGO. MD is a bit more flexible in this regard with gifts that provide you sin that your IDs may not have, though it’s not a guarantee that you’ll be able to get those. The problem is more with regular play (stage battles and the story dungeon; let’s not even consider lux because of how short those are) and RR.
What I especially hate here is that you'd have to bend over backwards to get Garden of Thorn's conditions. like you said, you'd essentially need 2 teams, A team to make use of Resonance condition and B team to build Sin resources that A team is lacking. While that sounds fine on paper, when it's competing resources Sunshower Yi Sang and Blind Obsession Ishmael who don't need that much set-up.
I won't condemn this EGO because it's an interesting d on paper. A resonance based EGO from the uni-sin Abno, it could've made itself slot into any resonance teams. But it gets kneecapped by being a Lust Affinity and having that horrendous Sin Cost.
We already have some effects that let us randomly get resources, like Ryoshu’s Soda (though only for resources we already own). If we ever get an EGO or ID that lets us specifically convert the resource we have the most of to a resource we have the least of (preferably unowned), that would be a real boost to sin res-themed teams.
I think Garden of Thorns being able to refund 1 random Ego Resource that isn't the highest Resonance by the # of the highest Resonance, priority to the lowest # of Sin Resource. or thr Passive giving EGO resource by the # of Absolute resonance/x would make it really good as you only need to kickstart the EGO
The concept is fun and all but A Gregor needs to be faster than other units and B you will never get full value on anything but lust. Why lust??? This ego will only ever see its full potential on burn teams. I feel a bit disappointed, especially because of the insane value of other waw egos. This is super expensive too, one of each son on normal and 2 on corrosion. At least the healing is good, but the damage effects will be super hard to get off in the future unless canto 6 returns to 7 sinners, and even then Gregor needs to be first. It costs 30 sanity too.
Nah they gotta be setting up threadspin 5 with this shit ain’t no way I’m paying FOURTEEN resources for 2 damage ups and one power up.
Like what is even the logic here you can try to slot it on a burn team but the only other lust resonance payoff is 9:2 so you HAVE TO run Ryoshu by the virtue of her being your only access to gluttony so what are you replacing MB Outis? To sometimes get 20% damage at the cost of my entire life savings? Lmao no shot.
Not really worth the cost right now. If Lust gets a decent team behind it that last effect could be a killer but as is the only groups who can make use of it are Liu(who don't really need it) and Kurokumo(who can't really make use of it)
It's definitely going to do something disgusting in the future but right now **14** resources is way too steep for this small of a return.
This ego is quite frankly pm screwing over greg. The philosophy of pm with resonance ego is so fucked. Resonance is supposed to reward you for teambuilding by giving you a higher reward from the same baseline as other egos that can be cast at any time in any team.
Instead what happens is the ego requires high resonance just to get stuff other egos get for granted like weight 7 or the buff (blind obsession is 2 dmg 2 Pierce power this turn, sunshower is 2 Sloth dmg 1 Sloth power this turn and next turn).
You can see this philosophy in 9:2 too where you need a bunch of lust abs res just so faust can have weight 3 and sinc can have weight 5, something egos at those respective levels just get for free.
Honestly the ego should just cost 1 sin each.
which is so weird since they nailed the last two resonance ids (Pequod Captain Ishmael and Blade Lineage Mentor Meursult), it's so weird that they drop the ball this hard.
This might be cope, but EGO can sometimes be a hint to later IDs that work way better with the kit, like we saw with the recent Don Wishing Cairn hinting at poise and Wayward Passenger's EGO on both Yi Sang and Hong Lu to tease W Corp IDs. It's hard to conceive of how a single ID could make up for this EGO's issues but maybe?
unless it's an id with ego resources amp spread, unlikely. or if we move to 8+ sinner combats in canto 6 where the final resonance requirements aren't locked to purely lust resonace teams in focused encounters.
Don't know how I feel about it tbh.
If they were going to go for such a high cost with flavor as the reason, I think they also should have had its Sin type count as all Sins for the purposes of resonance so this can be slotted into more teams. As it stands its kinda just an expensive Fluid Sack with higher rolls, hard-ish to hit conditionals (as of right now), and a prohibitive cost for anything but MD.
Still, 22% AoE heal isn't anything to scoff at and neither is 20 base/30 cap 4 weight slash. I think (EDIT: on second thought let's go with *hope*) it will age well and be good for early Hard runs when the MD passives reset. If I were to give advice to a new player, Sunshower is still probably the Waw to shard ~~but I think this would be better than Blind Obsession~~ actually im fucking insane, this is easily in third place.
Meh not worth it, I’ll wait til I get lucky on an extract before wasting crates, what a let down. It really should have been able to change based on highest affinity then it could have been worthwhile, the rupture passive only limits it more, easy pass.
So basically it's an ego that is meant to be used with resonance teams but:
* Is expensive as fuck and requires all sin, something that resonance teams tend to REALLY struggle with.
* Has 0 SP heal, meaning that Gregor is gonna end up with 15 SP, which means you either have to use another EGO just to heal his SP because you really ain't coming back from 15 SP on a fight that has tough clash numbers (although you can probably just spam legerdemain if you are running a gluttony/rupture team I guess).
* Forces you to run 1 specific ID (Zwei) because you really want to get value out of it since you really want him to be first so he doesn't interrupt ABS chains and applies the buffs early, but at this point you are also running Zwei instead of any other sinner that would fit the team better.
* Incentivizes a lust resonance team that has little to no support atm, there are good lust skills but all the support for lust reso (besides whispers) is just downright terrible. 6 ABS requirement just makes it impossible to use outside regular encounters.
* 21 sin cost corrosion that is not even good besides applying bind, damage down and lust specific fragile is a joke.
* Passive that only benefits one team comp. which is probably great if you can apply 4 to all on ABS, unless I'm interpreting it wrong and it only applies 2 rupture, if it's the latter, it's pretty irrelevant, otherwise it's good.
* Amazing heal, I really can't say anything bad about this, we tell pursuance is amazing because it heals 2 sinners for like 25%, this heals everyone for 22%, probably the best part about this EGO by far, and if it weren't for this I would honestly never use this. Although pursuance is cheaper and easier to fit than this thing.
It feels like they were trying to fit this EGO for all teams but screwed up the numbers, if you reduce the requirement of resonance for everything by 1 or increase the buffs by 1, or gave it some sort of SP heal, I could see myself praising the shit out of this ego, but with this it just seems eh. But I could see myself eating my own words if next season ends up being lust season.
I mean even healing in general is pretty irrelevant in this game too, like I can use fluid sac to get both hp and sp healing with less fuels and would work better. Since sp is often be better then straight healing anyway. U also never need for healing that desperately that u would resort to this abomination of an ego unless u messed real bad. Offense is always the more effective strat and this ego is clearly not very good at it
Like it makes me feel that whoever designed it fundamentally doesn’t understand the concept of the game at all and I hope doesn’t do another one. Like I’m impressed how bad it is.
First of all it’s passive is rupture so you’ve already limited it to a certain team, a team which barely has any lust skills I might add.
Then you make it resonance based requiring 6 res to have its full effect but you force it into lust, which the only team this will work on is Liu at the moment. It made so much sense to make it be any affinity like a no brainer decision, especially with how they made the cost be everything yet they don’t make the affinity be everything? It makes no sense.
Worst of all, this is a waw skill, this is all Gregor is going to get for who knows how long? Just horrible design up and down.
The thing I don't fucking understand is that it's somehow supposed to be an absolute res ego, but the resource requirement demands the absolute opposite: a fucking rainbow team
Rupture Teams can fit a lot of Lust EGO into them, actually. The only one that can't contribute at all is W Yi Sang... which to be fair, would be a harsh blow to lose.
It really should have been Gluttony, though. Gluttony is linked to Rupture, after all. Or maybe have some sort of passive that says "Combat Start: if adjacent to at least one Absolute Resonance, change this skill's sin affinity to the strongest absolute resonance" or "Combat Start: Gain one Resonance chain. (Resonance Chain: counts as the affinity of adjacent sins for Absolute Resonance purposes)"
Aah yes let me chain together like 4 lust ego because the only team that really benefits from this CANT PROC THE EFFECT WITHOUT IT… just what the ego needed to be effectively more expensive
The 6+ resonance reward is also awful. Why would I want sin power and damage next turn if I just spent all of my corresponding skills? I don't see why any current team is excited for this Ego, and it's season 3 so we can't get it from dispense next season. At the moment, it seems like just another flavor of Fluid Sac with some rupture tacked on. What were they thinking?
This is weird, 2 of every resource yet he does better in resonance teams? His passive includes rupture so you’d think rupture team but rupture team isn’t exactly know for being diverse with sins
Plus it’s only Lust affinity. Best Lust teams are burn and bleed but passive is rupture??? This ego makes my brain hurt.
At the very least MDs will give him more than enough ego resources to use this. The effects are pretty good for MD runs anyway, given the heal is pretty massive and the damage up is always welcome (especially since it's a near party-wide 2 power and damage up.
MD solves the resource problem sure, but it doesn't solve the other basic fundamental issues with the E.G.O. No team besides N Corp. cares about Lust resonance and the buffs are on use meaning even if you get a lust resonance lined up Gregor has to go first or the buffs are meaningless. I've been trying to use him with burn but even that team can't consistently pull off the resonance requirements. Especially since Magic Bullet Outis has no lust outside of E.G.O.
The sad truth is this E.G.O just isn't very good for anything besides healing yet. It will probably be good eventually once we have proper lust teams and a way to overcome the speed issue but for now it doesn't work with any team.
> a way to overcome the speed issue
Zwei Gregor is as fast as you reasonably ask of an ID
> it doesn't work with any team
I'm pretty sure you can get some good value out of just putting Zwei Gregor into a Pride or Burn/Wrath team for some battles (I can't test this cause I don't dispense EGO in general)
No, you really can't. You're getting rid of 1 Pride RES Member for an EGO you will not be able to use outside of MD (You need EVERY sin in your team, RES teams naturally will have tons of trouble with it) and even if you were somehow able to use it, all you're getting is 2 (sometimes 1) Pride Power and Damage Up
The EGO is just poorly designed in all aspects. It wants to be in RES teams, but needs all Sins. It's Lust which is mostly found in Bleed/Burn but the Passive gives Rupture. It gives neat buffs at 6+ RES but that's just not possible with most of the sins currently. It's the costiest WAW EGO, but rolls lower, has weaker effects and majority of those effects are locked behind unreasonable requirements.
I am just kinda ignoring the sin cost since we're talking about MD, I also only said to use Zwei Greg in "some" battles (either when it's a Slash effective node or a boss). Basically no way you can keep using this thing consistently.
Even though I like what it does, there's no arguing that the cost is way too expensive.
Yeah, especially with effects like these. This is the first WAW EGO with no SP refund of any kind and that's gonna hurt you a lot unless you use an SP healing EGO right after. Plus, both the coins and effects are just underwhelming for all the requirements for it.
~~Zwei Gregor isn't consistently fast enough. His base speed ranges are good but he's on a team where half the IDs have 3-7 speed ranges which isn't much different from him and he has no haste. If we want to overcome the speed issue, Gregor either needs a reliable source of haste or uptie V is going to have to upgrade the E.G.O from "on use" to "combat start".~~
EDIT: TIL that Zwei Gregor has haste.
I'll be honest. I've never used Zwei Gregor so I didn't even remember he had haste on skill 1. Disregard everything I said about his speed being inconsistent.
Still, even if Liu Gregor kinda sucks, putting a non-burn ID on the burn team just to use one overpriced E.G.O slightly more consistently is kind of a questionable decision.
I guess this ego works best when using degenerate guard ego generation strats that involve milking mermaids or peccatulas for 90+ turns by spamming guard and sometimes a weak af S1.
Level 30 RB Sous Chef Gregor saved my ass against floor 5 Jun and his goons with just one EGO. It's worth the price to finally have a field clearing slash EGO. N-Corp team also gave him his lust resonance which helped too.
Nclair, Molar outis , shi ish, tingtang lu and w-ryo could be the ideal lust A-res. Zwei greg generates lacking gloom, gluttony and sloth and is fast. Probably best to farm ego on rr3 mermaids with some other sin gen def skills.
It doesn't seem very good but i invested two hundred boxes into getting it anyways just so Gregor knows I still care about him (even if he's my least used Sinner)
TBF, it IS a Waw-type, AND it's one that used all the sins in it's fight.
This makes sense... but lord the Corrosion version requires FOUR OF EVERYTHING
I could use this in the Mirror Dungeon and the Railway, but in normal battle? Not so much.
... You know, this is actually perfect for dealing with Jun. Gives out a 0.5x envy resistance, so if he's already slash resistant, going to quarter the incoming counter damage, wreck the Kurokumo, and heal off any injuries that might already be there.
Gluttony Res with 7Cliff generates every resource. You're losing a bit of gluttony resonance(and speed is an issue if you'd be sensibly using G-Greg for the 2nd Lust) but it's not as hard as people imagine. What people are missing is that this can buff two different sin types at once(in theory)
that Is a way to balance it.
as far as buffing EGOs go this is among the best, an omni buffer that can give you up to 20% damage and 2 power for two turns on any sin affinity is great, the only thing that even gives it pause is yi sang sunshower and they're very different buffers
and it has a pursuance+ effect on there for good measure
that said like a lot of people have said I struggle to find a resonance comp that can run it reliably in short form content so it seems it's mostly locked to MDH for now
It'd be neat if Garden of Thorns had a variable sin affinity to work with whatever resonance you're doing. Since it's Lust, you're a little railroaded into Lust Resonance just because the attack itself is Lust, making it easier to do.
Its passive should have changed its afinity, not rapture.
*I dunno man, being able to instantly evacuate all party memebers from the field and allow WhiteKnight himself to descend to bring about the end of days is kinda busted for a passive. I'd rather have Gregor calling the rapture down on the City rather than sin affinity changing.*
Especially since the last effect that makes it last longer requires A-res. In focused encounters it won't even be possible to trigger it on any affinity except lust.
Yeah, it'd be great if it was Lust by default but it was treated as ANY affinity for the purpose of resonances and did the damage of the highest one
What team even covers this much resources?
Liu association covers everything pretty much
I think any mono-faction team covers every sin resource, like N corp, BL or liu (and LCB too, if you get creative with your roster)
I have decided to check this, and for sanity's sake, I narrowed this down exclusively to teams that Gregor can be put on. LCB - Yeah this one is pretty obvious. Liu - Yes, though you will have precisely 1 envy skill. G Corp - Covers a total of 4 sin resources. Can't work. RB - Same as above. Rosespanner - According to limbus.kusoge.xyz, this is not a faction. Regardless, these cover a total of 5 sin resources. Won't work. Zwei - Covers 6, missing pride. Twinhooks Pirates - Gregor is the only Twinhooks Pirates ID Kurokumo Clan - Only 5 sin resources. If we simply say "every faction with at least 6 members" and ignore the Gregor requirement, then this is true, but there's also a total of 5 factions that meet that requirement and only 2 that include Gregor.
Well, they will surely fill out other factions too (cough, shi, cough) and then we'll have some decent options for Sign of Roses EGO. For now you could do some horribly mismatching bleed team (for instance, KK Ryoshu and Greg, R Meur and TT/Hook Hong Lu and 2 flex spots, don't play bleed teams too often so idk)
While this EGO is powerful, I don't think it's worth distorting team builds for. I'd rather use twin hooks greg over KK greg for bleed.
Oh of course it isn't worth it, the only case I could make for it is it being both your only mass nuke option and your only healing option, and even then the SP cost can and will screw you in a bossfight. Kinda disappointing for the first WAW gacha EGO for such a cool boss
Twinhooks could just be added to the season 3 bloise with the Peakquods
Nfaust is honorary Liu, she fixes your envy problems.
if you wanted a rupture team, which the passive encourages, rupture + either KongLu, Red Sheet Sinclair or LCCB Ish gets every sin, and Gregor's own sins wouldn't matter on this team, you'll just have a hard time generating pride.
You take random gifts and get two resource gifts
>Pride ×3 Res. >1 ally with the most SP deals +10% damage with E.G.O Skills, If the E.G.O Skill consumes 7+ E.G.O resources, deal additional +5% damage. Magic Bullet Outis support passive stonks rising /j Burn teams now having access to every Sin affinity seems pretty nice. Only time will tell if this ends up making Gregor better to run over Meursault and his Regret + Capote combo.
Lust resonance is pretty easy for Burn, tho MB Outis does need to run Ya Sunyata to get a full 6 res if Skill slots are locked.
Which honestly isn't that terrible a thing. Sunshower rolls higher but Ya Sunyata on a Lust team is exactly where it needs to be, it costs no sanity and inflict Lust Fragility and with Gregor giving damage up you basically have a Lust burst
Yep, it's SP positive too (costs 15, heals 18). The Corrosion is great too for nuking even harder, with its additional Fragile infliction. Outis' EGOs are honestly goated with potential; Her Base EGO passive with its synergy with winning every clash and not taking an ounce of damage; her Ebony Stem with its immense Atk Weight and godly passive synergizing with her numerous Pierce skills and having Bind and Rupture support. Her Holiday is also pretty nice, synergizing with the Burn team's Wrath resonance, and having good support with Dmg Up and SP healing. Sry, just wanted to gush about Outis~
Nah I get you, I really like her and how her EGO and IDs all fit into this tactical aspect. Get a number of valuable buffs on her and use them to deal single but devastating blows (she even has single coin skills on all of her IDs so far). Cinq Outis with triple Tactical Perfection, Ebony's Stem Pierce DMG, and Ya Sunata Lust DMG UP using her single coin S3 is a beauty to behold. She tends to have a low number of coin to balance this out but the utility and damage she can consistently bring in her ID is really amazing.
Ahhh~ the good old days of ruina buff stacking~ I wouldn't even mind if Outis gets a "bad/niche" EGO/ID next season, she’s already got a lot of good stuff. Although, a Bleed ID for her might be in order, to at least synergize with her Ebony Stem's Extra bleed infliction.
U basically get +5% dmg for all the hassle
Also greg need to be fast for this to have any usage and liu greg is anything but fast
Easy, just put bind on the enemy /j
Also not the enemy need to be slow, greg need to be faster than all the others
>Ya think I know what a /j is? https://preview.redd.it/o89gg0u1z8oc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44d693c33a9548ce1d13c8794c6bce0a6c9a1e11
Ait
Ending it here? Have a lovely day, then~ I hope any Lunacy pulls you do go well~
And which one in burn have bind ?
Ryoshu with one of her Red Eyes, oh and Ishmael and Hong Lu Roseate Desire
My man knows his value, he's not a cheap whore like the Fluid Sac and Pursuance bitches. You gotta pay up for that high grade sloppy rossy.
https://preview.redd.it/ja3eunqm48oc1.png?width=1435&format=png&auto=webp&s=1025748184777d2f5122fec8a4d22e388664aa1e
https://preview.redd.it/dp2osh6vj8oc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e214b7f602376ca7f15059d5f1747e988827d7a
preach
https://preview.redd.it/v4hkhlvx6coc1.png?width=361&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ebbd861fe312eb3a86f815db49abd6b4edacfca4
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Giving 1 each wouldn't be too cheap, having Sins spread over multiple types makes them way harder to gather, and this EGO *is* substantially weaker than both Blind Obsession and Sunshower.
child within the flask in question:
That's MD, where resources aren't an issue for any EGO.
oh shit mb (not gonna delete this one tho, remark this so no one does the same oopsie) https://preview.redd.it/ibv9phhnd8oc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=045517916afd53b4d397fa908338d009f7c1766c
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5 reson is not that easy to get, the cost is too high for smth of this nature, moreover its spread over all affinities, u have to focus on a team with high reson (preferably lust) and to have enough affinity to fuel the ego itself. BO is cheaper, doesnt require reson, can be used any time, recover sp (which is often enough more important than hp) and would be better than the effect this Waw have unless it is 6 reson (which would require a whole lust team). u see the problem ?
That's the key problem right there it needs 5 resonance for sth that blind obsession can get at any time, with any team set up. Resonance should give you better reward than stuff other ego just get by default. If not then it should be much cheaper
>this at 5+ resonance would be same level as Blind Obsession. 30 vs 35 Roll Refunds SP vs doesn't (SP is way more important than HP) 11 cost vs 14 cost from all 7 sins Requires 5 RES vs doesn't require anything Doesn't even have an "additional" effect like BO's Poise and Charge Yeah, I don't think so.
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where in this ego is the resource gathering part?
I read it wrong, I read the damage up part as Resource gathering for some reason, stupid moment.
Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about.
Exactly. I mixed things and said stupid stuff cause I read the Damage Up from the Garden of Thorns as Resource Up for some reason, it was a stupid moment (and 3 am on my end)
Resource generating by consuming the most resources out of all EGOs in the game and only giving one Lust back?
I read it wrong, my bad. The damage up part I read it as sin gathering for some reason, stupid moment.
There's a lot of things I do not like from the looks of it: - 14 Sin cost Total 2 of EVERY sin is kinda insane, because you need even sin affinity spread making it hard for teams that can't fuel it efficiently. Like 1 of each + (# of Highest Resonance/2 round up) would be more manageable IMO -Being Lust Affinity ruins Garden of Thorns' gimmick, by forcing him into Lust Resonance teams to get the full use of that +6 Resonance condition. I think they should've made him into the first Neutral Sin Skill where it changes Sin Affinity based on the highest Resonance -Both the Sin cost and gimmick conflict with each other, while the cost wants you to use an even sin spread but his conditionals reward you for having a high Resonance count. Making the Cost 7 of the Highest Resonance or Reducing the cost based on the Resonance
Yeah, the EGO isn’t really appropriate right now if your intention is to make use of the sin power up. Not that the conditions can’t eventually be met, but we’ll need a rather wide sin spread where the majority of the IDs have lust on their S1 or S2 (or double up on it, like Pequod Heath, Der Outis, and BL Meursault), and the other sins are able to provide for all the other sin affinities we’d need to fuel the EGO. Either that or we’ll rely more on switching up members for the team to meet the fuel needs of the EGO. MD is a bit more flexible in this regard with gifts that provide you sin that your IDs may not have, though it’s not a guarantee that you’ll be able to get those. The problem is more with regular play (stage battles and the story dungeon; let’s not even consider lux because of how short those are) and RR.
What I especially hate here is that you'd have to bend over backwards to get Garden of Thorn's conditions. like you said, you'd essentially need 2 teams, A team to make use of Resonance condition and B team to build Sin resources that A team is lacking. While that sounds fine on paper, when it's competing resources Sunshower Yi Sang and Blind Obsession Ishmael who don't need that much set-up. I won't condemn this EGO because it's an interesting d on paper. A resonance based EGO from the uni-sin Abno, it could've made itself slot into any resonance teams. But it gets kneecapped by being a Lust Affinity and having that horrendous Sin Cost.
We already have some effects that let us randomly get resources, like Ryoshu’s Soda (though only for resources we already own). If we ever get an EGO or ID that lets us specifically convert the resource we have the most of to a resource we have the least of (preferably unowned), that would be a real boost to sin res-themed teams.
I think Garden of Thorns being able to refund 1 random Ego Resource that isn't the highest Resonance by the # of the highest Resonance, priority to the lowest # of Sin Resource. or thr Passive giving EGO resource by the # of Absolute resonance/x would make it really good as you only need to kickstart the EGO
The concept is fun and all but A Gregor needs to be faster than other units and B you will never get full value on anything but lust. Why lust??? This ego will only ever see its full potential on burn teams. I feel a bit disappointed, especially because of the insane value of other waw egos. This is super expensive too, one of each son on normal and 2 on corrosion. At least the healing is good, but the damage effects will be super hard to get off in the future unless canto 6 returns to 7 sinners, and even then Gregor needs to be first. It costs 30 sanity too.
To be fair, my current theory is that we're going to see Lust Resonance IDs next season like how we got Pride and Envy this one.
Nah they gotta be setting up threadspin 5 with this shit ain’t no way I’m paying FOURTEEN resources for 2 damage ups and one power up. Like what is even the logic here you can try to slot it on a burn team but the only other lust resonance payoff is 9:2 so you HAVE TO run Ryoshu by the virtue of her being your only access to gluttony so what are you replacing MB Outis? To sometimes get 20% damage at the cost of my entire life savings? Lmao no shot.
Are you running Liu Hong Lu or NClair? Cause Liu Ryoshu slots into burn team just fine for me.
Of course I’m running Nclair
Not really worth the cost right now. If Lust gets a decent team behind it that last effect could be a killer but as is the only groups who can make use of it are Liu(who don't really need it) and Kurokumo(who can't really make use of it) It's definitely going to do something disgusting in the future but right now **14** resources is way too steep for this small of a return.
It’s literally “potential man” but EGO
The problem is resonance teams probably aren't generating loads of every sin resource. So that's antisynergy built into the kit.
This ego is quite frankly pm screwing over greg. The philosophy of pm with resonance ego is so fucked. Resonance is supposed to reward you for teambuilding by giving you a higher reward from the same baseline as other egos that can be cast at any time in any team. Instead what happens is the ego requires high resonance just to get stuff other egos get for granted like weight 7 or the buff (blind obsession is 2 dmg 2 Pierce power this turn, sunshower is 2 Sloth dmg 1 Sloth power this turn and next turn). You can see this philosophy in 9:2 too where you need a bunch of lust abs res just so faust can have weight 3 and sinc can have weight 5, something egos at those respective levels just get for free. Honestly the ego should just cost 1 sin each.
which is so weird since they nailed the last two resonance ids (Pequod Captain Ishmael and Blade Lineage Mentor Meursult), it's so weird that they drop the ball this hard.
This might be cope, but EGO can sometimes be a hint to later IDs that work way better with the kit, like we saw with the recent Don Wishing Cairn hinting at poise and Wayward Passenger's EGO on both Yi Sang and Hong Lu to tease W Corp IDs. It's hard to conceive of how a single ID could make up for this EGO's issues but maybe?
unless it's an id with ego resources amp spread, unlikely. or if we move to 8+ sinner combats in canto 6 where the final resonance requirements aren't locked to purely lust resonace teams in focused encounters.
Maybe if we move back to seven sinner fights, otherwise this is still completely hard-stuck on Lust/Burn Teams
Shame that now 6 sinners is the standard, makes 6 A-res a bloody blightmare ir even impossible for non-lust res.
Don't know how I feel about it tbh. If they were going to go for such a high cost with flavor as the reason, I think they also should have had its Sin type count as all Sins for the purposes of resonance so this can be slotted into more teams. As it stands its kinda just an expensive Fluid Sack with higher rolls, hard-ish to hit conditionals (as of right now), and a prohibitive cost for anything but MD. Still, 22% AoE heal isn't anything to scoff at and neither is 20 base/30 cap 4 weight slash. I think (EDIT: on second thought let's go with *hope*) it will age well and be good for early Hard runs when the MD passives reset. If I were to give advice to a new player, Sunshower is still probably the Waw to shard ~~but I think this would be better than Blind Obsession~~ actually im fucking insane, this is easily in third place.
Takes all different sins but then the effect rewards resonance. Doesn't seem like it would be worth it
Meh not worth it, I’ll wait til I get lucky on an extract before wasting crates, what a let down. It really should have been able to change based on highest affinity then it could have been worthwhile, the rupture passive only limits it more, easy pass.
That's pretty neat, probably not the most meta thing but I like the flavor of it.
mid
So basically it's an ego that is meant to be used with resonance teams but: * Is expensive as fuck and requires all sin, something that resonance teams tend to REALLY struggle with. * Has 0 SP heal, meaning that Gregor is gonna end up with 15 SP, which means you either have to use another EGO just to heal his SP because you really ain't coming back from 15 SP on a fight that has tough clash numbers (although you can probably just spam legerdemain if you are running a gluttony/rupture team I guess). * Forces you to run 1 specific ID (Zwei) because you really want to get value out of it since you really want him to be first so he doesn't interrupt ABS chains and applies the buffs early, but at this point you are also running Zwei instead of any other sinner that would fit the team better. * Incentivizes a lust resonance team that has little to no support atm, there are good lust skills but all the support for lust reso (besides whispers) is just downright terrible. 6 ABS requirement just makes it impossible to use outside regular encounters. * 21 sin cost corrosion that is not even good besides applying bind, damage down and lust specific fragile is a joke. * Passive that only benefits one team comp. which is probably great if you can apply 4 to all on ABS, unless I'm interpreting it wrong and it only applies 2 rupture, if it's the latter, it's pretty irrelevant, otherwise it's good. * Amazing heal, I really can't say anything bad about this, we tell pursuance is amazing because it heals 2 sinners for like 25%, this heals everyone for 22%, probably the best part about this EGO by far, and if it weren't for this I would honestly never use this. Although pursuance is cheaper and easier to fit than this thing. It feels like they were trying to fit this EGO for all teams but screwed up the numbers, if you reduce the requirement of resonance for everything by 1 or increase the buffs by 1, or gave it some sort of SP heal, I could see myself praising the shit out of this ego, but with this it just seems eh. But I could see myself eating my own words if next season ends up being lust season.
I mean even healing in general is pretty irrelevant in this game too, like I can use fluid sac to get both hp and sp healing with less fuels and would work better. Since sp is often be better then straight healing anyway. U also never need for healing that desperately that u would resort to this abomination of an ego unless u messed real bad. Offense is always the more effective strat and this ego is clearly not very good at it
As weddings tend to be
YOU ATE ALL THE FUCKING SIN GREG GIMME MY GOD DAMM SIN BACK
Honestly one of the worse ego I've seen, Holy shit
Like it makes me feel that whoever designed it fundamentally doesn’t understand the concept of the game at all and I hope doesn’t do another one. Like I’m impressed how bad it is. First of all it’s passive is rupture so you’ve already limited it to a certain team, a team which barely has any lust skills I might add. Then you make it resonance based requiring 6 res to have its full effect but you force it into lust, which the only team this will work on is Liu at the moment. It made so much sense to make it be any affinity like a no brainer decision, especially with how they made the cost be everything yet they don’t make the affinity be everything? It makes no sense. Worst of all, this is a waw skill, this is all Gregor is going to get for who knows how long? Just horrible design up and down.
The thing I don't fucking understand is that it's somehow supposed to be an absolute res ego, but the resource requirement demands the absolute opposite: a fucking rainbow team
Rupture Teams can fit a lot of Lust EGO into them, actually. The only one that can't contribute at all is W Yi Sang... which to be fair, would be a harsh blow to lose. It really should have been Gluttony, though. Gluttony is linked to Rupture, after all. Or maybe have some sort of passive that says "Combat Start: if adjacent to at least one Absolute Resonance, change this skill's sin affinity to the strongest absolute resonance" or "Combat Start: Gain one Resonance chain. (Resonance Chain: counts as the affinity of adjacent sins for Absolute Resonance purposes)"
Aah yes let me chain together like 4 lust ego because the only team that really benefits from this CANT PROC THE EFFECT WITHOUT IT… just what the ego needed to be effectively more expensive
The 6+ resonance reward is also awful. Why would I want sin power and damage next turn if I just spent all of my corresponding skills? I don't see why any current team is excited for this Ego, and it's season 3 so we can't get it from dispense next season. At the moment, it seems like just another flavor of Fluid Sac with some rupture tacked on. What were they thinking?
it's weird that passive inflict rupture but it's not gluttony or gloom(for AEDD rupture team). maybe next season we will get lust a-reason id.🤔
for something as big as a Waw? We're definitely going to get an id for it soon (my bet is walp)
Dear God I somewhat hope it’s not Walp because I am so poor right now
Praying for Warp Gloom/Lust Gregor ID this season.
Forgot the resource, how do you build a team that focus on resonance and having all the resources needed.
i'll wait till they buff it
This is weird, 2 of every resource yet he does better in resonance teams? His passive includes rupture so you’d think rupture team but rupture team isn’t exactly know for being diverse with sins Plus it’s only Lust affinity. Best Lust teams are burn and bleed but passive is rupture??? This ego makes my brain hurt.
At the very least MDs will give him more than enough ego resources to use this. The effects are pretty good for MD runs anyway, given the heal is pretty massive and the damage up is always welcome (especially since it's a near party-wide 2 power and damage up.
MD solves the resource problem sure, but it doesn't solve the other basic fundamental issues with the E.G.O. No team besides N Corp. cares about Lust resonance and the buffs are on use meaning even if you get a lust resonance lined up Gregor has to go first or the buffs are meaningless. I've been trying to use him with burn but even that team can't consistently pull off the resonance requirements. Especially since Magic Bullet Outis has no lust outside of E.G.O. The sad truth is this E.G.O just isn't very good for anything besides healing yet. It will probably be good eventually once we have proper lust teams and a way to overcome the speed issue but for now it doesn't work with any team.
> a way to overcome the speed issue Zwei Gregor is as fast as you reasonably ask of an ID > it doesn't work with any team I'm pretty sure you can get some good value out of just putting Zwei Gregor into a Pride or Burn/Wrath team for some battles (I can't test this cause I don't dispense EGO in general)
No, you really can't. You're getting rid of 1 Pride RES Member for an EGO you will not be able to use outside of MD (You need EVERY sin in your team, RES teams naturally will have tons of trouble with it) and even if you were somehow able to use it, all you're getting is 2 (sometimes 1) Pride Power and Damage Up The EGO is just poorly designed in all aspects. It wants to be in RES teams, but needs all Sins. It's Lust which is mostly found in Bleed/Burn but the Passive gives Rupture. It gives neat buffs at 6+ RES but that's just not possible with most of the sins currently. It's the costiest WAW EGO, but rolls lower, has weaker effects and majority of those effects are locked behind unreasonable requirements.
I am just kinda ignoring the sin cost since we're talking about MD, I also only said to use Zwei Greg in "some" battles (either when it's a Slash effective node or a boss). Basically no way you can keep using this thing consistently. Even though I like what it does, there's no arguing that the cost is way too expensive.
Yeah, especially with effects like these. This is the first WAW EGO with no SP refund of any kind and that's gonna hurt you a lot unless you use an SP healing EGO right after. Plus, both the coins and effects are just underwhelming for all the requirements for it.
Thankfully, it has a 30 SP cost, not 35, so it's not going to backfire horrendously with Rusty Coin.
~~Zwei Gregor isn't consistently fast enough. His base speed ranges are good but he's on a team where half the IDs have 3-7 speed ranges which isn't much different from him and he has no haste. If we want to overcome the speed issue, Gregor either needs a reliable source of haste or uptie V is going to have to upgrade the E.G.O from "on use" to "combat start".~~ EDIT: TIL that Zwei Gregor has haste.
He does actually have 2 Haste on his S1, unless you mean a way to somehow get Haste turn 1?
I'll be honest. I've never used Zwei Gregor so I didn't even remember he had haste on skill 1. Disregard everything I said about his speed being inconsistent. Still, even if Liu Gregor kinda sucks, putting a non-burn ID on the burn team just to use one overpriced E.G.O slightly more consistently is kind of a questionable decision.
TL;DR: Trust the plAn.
Neato.
I guess this ego works best when using degenerate guard ego generation strats that involve milking mermaids or peccatulas for 90+ turns by spamming guard and sometimes a weak af S1.
Level 30 RB Sous Chef Gregor saved my ass against floor 5 Jun and his goons with just one EGO. It's worth the price to finally have a field clearing slash EGO. N-Corp team also gave him his lust resonance which helped too.
Nclair, Molar outis , shi ish, tingtang lu and w-ryo could be the ideal lust A-res. Zwei greg generates lacking gloom, gluttony and sloth and is fast. Probably best to farm ego on rr3 mermaids with some other sin gen def skills.
It doesn't seem very good but i invested two hundred boxes into getting it anyways just so Gregor knows I still care about him (even if he's my least used Sinner)
PM going against the power creep and instead adding inflation to Fluid Sac, top tier waw
Salvation aint cheap, now pay the fuck up
TBF, it IS a Waw-type, AND it's one that used all the sins in it's fight. This makes sense... but lord the Corrosion version requires FOUR OF EVERYTHING I could use this in the Mirror Dungeon and the Railway, but in normal battle? Not so much.
You want to use a Bibicial Ego? Better have the sin to repent in turn
HEALER EGO FOR THE HEALER SINNER!? thank lord for feeding me like Gregor did with the 2 pieces of Bread and the 3 pieces of fish🙏
Gregor saw everyone thirstposting over him looking like a bride and decided enough is enough
Anyway, 000 greg ID when? in rougly 1 month i hope.
... You know, this is actually perfect for dealing with Jun. Gives out a 0.5x envy resistance, so if he's already slash resistant, going to quarter the incoming counter damage, wreck the Kurokumo, and heal off any injuries that might already be there.
That also mean when this event end this ego becomes completely useless
Limbus damage calcs are goofy, and negative resists are both half effective, and additive. So two 0.5s means (1-0.25-.25)=0.5x damage, not 0.25x.
Well Jesus did die for our sins....
Gluttony Res with 7Cliff generates every resource. You're losing a bit of gluttony resonance(and speed is an issue if you'd be sensibly using G-Greg for the 2nd Lust) but it's not as hard as people imagine. What people are missing is that this can buff two different sin types at once(in theory)
Just pulled several times to get him but nada. I got Twinhooks Pirate instead.
Jesus christ what the hell it this cost
All that for mid,they rioned sign of roses
That's the power of cunt.
**Jesus**, Gregor be expensive vs **Jesus Gregor** be expensive
I dunno if this is an attempt to grammar me but uh... I intentionally meant the latter so checkmate. /j
Lol nah, just pointing out it could have two different meanings based on emphasis
Has anyone told you how expensive marriage is?!
that Is a way to balance it. as far as buffing EGOs go this is among the best, an omni buffer that can give you up to 20% damage and 2 power for two turns on any sin affinity is great, the only thing that even gives it pause is yi sang sunshower and they're very different buffers and it has a pursuance+ effect on there for good measure that said like a lot of people have said I struggle to find a resonance comp that can run it reliably in short form content so it seems it's mostly locked to MDH for now