Improvisation should be taught formally. Sure, you're not going to improvise in a concert (unless you double as a jazz or other style musician), BUT improv skills are so important for musicality.
THIS!!! I constantly improvise at the piano, and I cannot imagine so many other classical pianists like me out there who are too afraid to improvise: it's like knowing how to read without knowing how to talk.
That it is, indeed, elitist. Culture itself isn't as accessible as one may think and that's what makes people that talk about classical music, or any other kind of art, as something that should be common knowledge makes everyone that enjoys, study or listen to classical music be labelled as snobs. That's what makes people lose interest in searching and educate themselves too, in my opinion. Fortunately there are people like Brett and Eddy that work to make culture more accessible.
I don't really know if that's really an unpopular opinion but I hear too many people say that it's not that hard to learn and inform oneself about it and even mock someone for not knowing something that isn't that easy.
It comes in two ways. A lot of people who don't listen to classical music or anything see us as snobs, people who think they are above everyone else. However, some of us are elitists, but it shouldn't be a stereotype of any sort.
It shouldn't be but it is. Unfortunately, there are too many people that act as if they're superior only because they have a little knowledge about classical music. I think that comes with a "gotta show I'm the smartest person in the room just because I'm talking about something they don't know". Most of my non-musician friends thought everyone that studies or has an interest in classical music was like that.
Elitist, both within and outside the community.
Worst gatekeeping than any other hobbyist communities that I know of. Throw the "classical visual arts people" in there too.
Toxic perfectionism.
Anything related to classical music should not be treated as "the be-all and end-all" career. Get a stable day job unrelated to that.
I know many of my peers who have one or two businesses outside of anything that involves pitch.
I myself is very lucky to be in a niche section of historical musicology. But I have an exit plan and planning relegate all my musical endeavors to be not a bread-and-butter kind of thing.
Agreed. I’m a lawyer by profession- but hobbyist violinist in 3 different orchestras. It’s been a lifelong passion- but I knew it wouldn’t be lucrative enough financially- I did play with the Houston Youth Symphony as a kid- but my parents didn’t have money for lessons, etc- I was just lucky to have good public school educators and good youth symphony instruction— but there really didn’t seem to be any big solo career in my future. Lol. 😊
I've been noticing that. As a hobbyist musician myself, this is why I still haven't gone for a degree in music. I love music theory and want to explore non-western styles theoretically, but I just eyeroll at having to put up with the elitism in Academia.
Yes, despite having a music degree myself, elitism and the ego enlargement tournaments are rampant.
Because of that, it burned me to this day. But I still have a job related to music, but it is far removed from the performance/pedagogy job market competition.
Interesting. I don't see anything wrong with getting a job related to classical music tho... Although working alongside classical music lovers can definitely foster elitism...
I'd rather make all my music related endeavors a serious hobby instead of career despite completing a bachelor's degree in piano.
Right now I am an office wagie wrangling musicologists, which is bearable.
non-musicians say classical music is "boring". but do i have to show you in 10 sec how to play those three lousy chords for your fav song that repeat for two and a half minutes?
EXACTLY!!!!!! My brother, who is not a classical musician at all, says all classical music is the same. No it’s not!!!!!!!! If anything all pop music is the same, with the same four chords repeating for three minutes. And all rap music is the same with the lyrics about money and partying all day and partying all night. At least classical music isn’t so predictable!!!!!!!
Lol 😂 I don’t hate pop music though, I’m just pointing out the irony of people saying classical music is all the same when pop music always has the same repeating chords.
*cough cough* Eric Carmen *cough cough* All By Myself *cough cough* Rach 2
Also, I just happened to play Rach 2 in my orchestra concert yesterday so that one is especially fresh for me
ALSOOOOO…. Shut Down by Blackpink. I know next to zilch about Kpop music, but as soon as I heard this I knew they completely plagiarized La Campanella 😂🙄
Also, to make matters worse, if stealing La Campanella wasn’t enough… they took the first few measures of it and repeated it over and over again, turning a beautiful piece of music into something that’s essentially the same thing as the boring repeated chord progressions that all pop music seems to have. 🙄
Idk man, I feel like "Shut Down by Blackpink is repeated bars of La Campanella" isn't as "unpopular" as you think it is in this subreddit. That's just me though.
Tis but a jest.
-IllogicalInterpreter
I once took an uber and driver had spotify on with "electronic" music playlist, in which each and every track (it was almost an hour long ride) was made of 10 seconds piece of a very well known melody looped and overplayed with "bit". Not all were from classical music. But none were original. Ugh.
I mean... a lot of classical music, especially baroque and classic era, also follows quite simple chord patterns it repeats a lot, not that there's anything wrong with that or that music can't be complex despite using a basic chord progression
Some chords just sound good with each other and will be used together. As in all music. Bach himself was able to produce so many pieces in his short time at court because he puzzled together groups of chords/notes/chord transitions that sound good
For classical, you can see it especially well in a midi format imo. Little sections that are grouped together and reused, maybe in a different pitch maybe on a different octave. I personally think the first and third movement of moonlight sonata shows that well. I love it, its beautiful, but its repetitive. Because repetitive makes it sound good. Not all pieces or songs have to be chaos to sound good
In pop and other lyrical music, you use them for background, the singing is the main part. You dont need fancy chord progression for that. Classical doesnt have lyrics, it needs to deter a bit and sound different, but not too different. Habanera is one of my favourite opera pieces, if you just play it on the piano you get the same notes over and over again with different transitions (where the singing usually overtones the music)
I am currently learning comptine d'un autre été on the guitar. It’s 3 sections in repetition with different transitions
Thank you for attending my unpopular opinion
They all say "it's boring because they don't have lyrics" but literally listen to some of the most simple pieces, they cherry pick. And then go "WoooooW!" When the 4 beat melody repeats on top about Taylor Swift crying about how guy #99923 cheated on her.
I can literally show them 1 Richard Meyer song and it likely change their mind.
Production quality is a huge part of what makes pop good. You're removing 99% of the music and evaluating it based on a classical definition of good music. How many pop *musicians* have asked this?
The way we present and listen to classical music is boring compared to basically any modern genre.
~Figured bass~, roman numerals, and voice leading are descriptive, not prescriptive.
Edit: Redacting figured bass. That is useful and prescriptive, I'm an idiot. But you know what actually is worthless? Schenkerian analysis. That racist has no place in musical study.
Figured bass is usually telling you what to play. Sometimes what it tells you is just what's going on in other parts not what to play.
If telling what to play isn't prescriptive, what is? In accompanied duo and trio textures, the figured bass often instructs many notes which are not otherwise in the other parts.
I agree, it actually is a really nice piece. That being said, I can TOTALLY see why people, especially cellists hate playing it. The cellists definitely got screwed over on that one.
This comment goes hard under the one about how pop music with repetitive chord progressions is boring. In seriousness though, simple does not mean bad, it just means that it’s easier to tell when it’s bad.
Guys idk if you wanna hear this, but playing music is a million times better than listening to it.
Also, theres bound to be filler in a 34 min piece, not every measure is godly.
A wider array of mushy textures, to my ear. But I guess a lot of it depends on what musical sounds imprinted on your ear as a kid. I seem to relate better to crisper, minimal textures.
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Vibrato should only be used sparingly as an ornament again. Both in singing and various instruments.
Paganini was more of a party trick than a musician. A hard earned party trick, granted, but still party trick. His music could sound nice without the unnecessary technical difficulties.
Vibrato in singing is used on every note because it’s healthy technique, not just because some old people decided it sounded good in opera. Vibrato facilitates a release of tension in the vocal chords which ultimately helps the singing feel natural, free, and easy — all beneficial especially when pieces are virtuosic
That may be so, I'm far from a singing specialist. It's still far too much for my taste. It's not rare that I can't even discern the pitch a note is supposed to have because of all the vibration and some may like that, I don't.
Vibrato may be "healthy technique", but sounds horrible when used in every instance possible, and the majority of vibrato spamming singers that I know of, are forcing vibrato with their jaw rather than it naturally occuring (and it sounds terrible).
As a violin student who was trained to do that, all my peers do it, and my teacher does it as well, it might be because it stemmed from the Romantic Era, or to cover up some intonation issues (you know who you are). Ngl I only really do it on certain passages, it depends on the piece.
Yeah I get that! Actually, I’m just at the point in violin where I want to put vibrato on everything to “make it sound nicer” 😂 such a tempting mistress
Early 20th century musicians had teachers who were Romantic period composers. Fiddlers like Fritz Kreisler had technical excellence and Romantic passion too. Classical musicians had distinctive voices. You could tell one musician from another because of different styles.
I think it would be cool if there were normal classical concerts but also ones where you can like dance (like at a festival/rave) idk how to explain but it would be so much fun
the elitism and gatekeeping that so many of us seem to show
i've seen it on here before, mocking non musicians for liking "generic" pieces like canon in d or saying their favourite composer is mozart
quite frankly, who cares? sure canon in d is overplayed, *because it's a good piece of music*. there's a reason mozart is so famous, *he's a brilliant composer*.
it's this gatekeeping and mocking of people who try to fit in that make people think classical musicians are elitist snobs, and who can blame them?
I don't enjoy Beethoven's music viscerally/emotionally. I find it interesting and mentally stimulating but I can't derive enjoyment from his music. Admittedly, I have not given the entirety of his works a chance for a long while.
I see what you’re saying but you can always open your ears a bit to other music.
Here’s something that’s more tonal than Schöenberg but still is atonal and very beautiful: [Liszt’s Bagatelle sans tonalité](https://youtu.be/yc_HjEa8k5k?feature=shared)
Now MY unpopular opinion is that music older than romantic music is underrated, so I guess I’ll write an essay about it right now. 😂
Let me ask you which recording you would prefer: [this one](https://youtu.be/LHjbRMIIhuM?feature=shared) or [this one](https://youtu.be/gvs4v_aswfk?feature=shared)
Both definitely have musical value but something feels off and unnatural about the immediate vibrato on every note that’s long enough in Gould’s recording. Of course, this is just one example, and the advancement in recording technology makes much of the difference. But which sounds more natural? To me, it’s the authentic instruments, strings and bows, harpsichord and wooden flute.
Here’s another example: [Twoset’s performance](https://youtu.be/qYcvm6X0TYM?feature=shared) versus [a historically informed one](https://youtu.be/ILKJcsET-NM?feature=shared). Take a look at the third movement. It seems like the bows just flow more easily and elegantly in the Netherlands Bach Society one than Twoset’s, does it? In general, the sound just feels more open in the historically informed ones.
Also, [this](https://youtu.be/DzxlMfUzqIM?feature=shared) could never really be achieved with piano.
Also here’s a [fun one](https://youtu.be/xx8ooc-s7OQ?feature=shared) and [another](https://youtu.be/yIQ6V38MkEw?feature=shared) if you want to take a listen.
Maybe I’m just too in love with this kind of music though.
What do you think?
They've stopped doing that as much and [this](https://youtu.be/zk25UgLw71s?si=gp3lNk1J5GKRwzIn) video is a huge improvement on the kind of stuff they used to say about violas.
Unpopular opinion, maybe, or perhaps just a bitter pill that plenty more people need to swallow:
The “average classical musician” will need a day job to make ends meet. Otherwise you’re going to be stressed, exhausted and broke unless you are A) top of field, as in THE TOP; B) get really lucky, or C) work something like 80-100 hours a week.
Best decision I ever made career wise for my music, ironically, was working a day job. I am a paralegal at a law firm and I want to go to law school, a long time dream, and I couldn’t be happier. I love the work. There’s a whole world out there besides music to explore.
Since taking a day job with a salary and good insurance, I feel I’ve become a better musician since I’m not as stressed about simply living. I found my artistic voice and do music on my own terms now, 100% historical performance. Honestly it rocks :)
Absolutely. That’s why as a music major who is currently one semester away from graduating, I am very thankful that I am also minoring in mass communications, so I can do something with that as a job. I’m probably going to end up combining music and mass com for my career :)
I like listening to Flight of the Bumblebee (the original one). I personally find it pretty catchy and it does its job in representing an insect flying around.
But I absolutely hate how overplayed it is and how it is treated as a "skill proof" by most non-musicians.
I agree that the community is rife with elitism. But I don’t think the belief that you should not clap between movements is elitist. I personally love the silence when the movement ends, the last note/chord ringing out into the hall… and then the next movement begins! Or hearing two movements blend in so well together. The clapping really takes me out of it!
Also: I am fed up of seeing every local concert ONLY playing Vivaldi’s Four Seasons. These events are usually aimed at the general public, and are a lot of people’s first experience of seeing a classical concert, so I understand why they would play something recognisable (and more likely to sell out). But why does it always have to be that piece! I’m fed up of hearing it now
There is way too much snobism in classical music. I see it too in this thread here as well. "All pop music is just the same." "Pop music steals from classical composers." "People should not clap between movements." I see so much 'classical music is just superior to all other music'. Which is not just snobism and classism, it is also racist and to an extent misogynist.
You want classical music to have a bad reputation and not attract new young enthusiasts both as musicians or audience, because yelling *Sacrilegious!* at everything that you don't like and feeling better for it, is exactly how you get that to happen.
as a black violinist I’m glad you brought up racism, a lot of people act like these classical music spaces are only for upper class white people when they should be enjoyed and accessed to everyone
The (classical/opera) singing makes the music worse imo. Definitely unpopular opinion I guess.
Like any time a classical singer comes in, I'm sad because the beautiful part of music is going 'to waste' (I make this bigger than it is, exaggerated it a bit, but still)
Depending on who it is, yeah. I find lower parts to be more easy on my ears than the sopranos, who can sometimes "waste the music". Other times voices add volume and depth to a part, and make the piece more grandiose.
Yeah right? Im always searching for the orchestral only recordings of all the good operas, Cavellaria Rusticana is such an example. As soon as someone opens his mouth i press stop.
Overuse of vibrato is such a common thing among all singers coming out of Conservatoires / Conservatories. Vocal departments that focus on opera heavily seem to pump out these singers, who all sound the same, and use vibrato as much as possible. I wish singers would sound unique, and not conform to the same copy paste voices that are on every recording from the past 50 years,
It's the best way to sing louder than an orchestra without a mic without destroying your vocal chords. The genre grew around that reality and honestly I'm not a fan of how it sounds either.
I think the implication was that playing it flawlessly comes first. Like, playing every note correctly is a starting point, and if you're still playing wrong notes, you're not ready to start perfecting it musically yet.
Renaissance & baroque music are actually great. I don't really like Tschaikovsky. It's just not my style & I never listen to any of his music twice. =/
"Everything has to be professional in classical music."
To elaborate, it's that you have to be all elite and act all fancy when in classical music. And I hate this a lot. There are people who are new to the classical music community, but ever so often, some guy will say something like-: "THIS ISN'T A SYMPHONY, THIS IS A** BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE THE STUFF THAT CLASSICAL MUSICIANS HAD BACK THEN!!!"
It annoys me so much. Everything has to be perfect, everything has to be like this, everything has to sound like this, and this, and this- like- DEAR GOD. 😭
Unpopular opinion here: I prefer Rachmaninov’s music over Chopin’s. I don’t deny that Chopin composed beautiful music but it doesn’t really appeal to me as much as Rachmaninov does
Don’t worry about that. It’s more so a preference. I enjoy both but Chopin really moves me with all four of his ballades, specifically the 3 I have a significant emotional connection to.
And I’d imagine a composer as great as Rachmaninov will do the same for just as many people as well. It’s good to appreciate all different kinds of composers.
Hmm - thing is, it's quite a popular opinion. My piano teacher once said, that a lot of young people think Mozart overrated, and then, when they get older, the rediscover & appreciate him in a different way. I kind of get that. When people study music, and are perpetually told to play (arguably boring) Mozart string quartets) and are made to get through all the endledd, repetitive Mozarty stuff - it will seem really annoying. But with a greater distance, perhaps one can discover Mozart's role in the classical period& development of western music, and also his specific talent & his really individual style. But I think Moszart is part of why people say classic is dull. Because neither are performances always historically informed AND by great musicians, and also, not all his stuff is really super interesting, and you need to kind of like classical music. But then, if you hear the requiem, or some arias, I doubt anyone would be bored...
TLDR I feel you but it's complicated!
I like that he was the first IP-pirate and an opensource activist. Sorta. You know the story.
If you don't, there was a time when each church had its own music and guarded it very much. But then a young prodigy came to a mass and after he left he wrote down the whole score, just by memory, rendering the whole guarding of music obsolete.
As for compositions, there are a few that are really good, and many many more that just are.
I've felt this way about Mozart for most of my life as a musician, but recently I've realized that his being overrated doesn't mean his music is bad. Lots of his music is incredible, and he was still a skilled composer, pianist, and improviser. What I dislike about Mozart is that he's performed FAR too often. My local symphony performed a Mozart symphony every year, sometimes even having whole concerts dedicated to his music. I never once saw any other composer's symphonies or concertos performed as often. Some might argue that his music deserves to be performed so much and studied so much because it's so technically refined or even "perfect." But such a view of a composer only seems to matter to musicians who value that kind of thing. There's more to music than perfection though, and the perfectionism of classical music is one of the turn offs that people have with classical music. These are just some thoughts. To summarize, Mozart's music really is excellent, but he's performed too often at the expense of music that would probably mean more to your average audience.
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Unpopular opinion, USA doesn't have any great classical pianist to speak of and it's not appreciated in this country the same way. While many come here to play from other countries, I really can't think of any here. Please name some if I'm wrong. Canada,Europe, and Asia are really bringing it, though.
People shouldn't be belittled for coughing or sneezing during performances. It's a natural, involuntary bodily function. And bodily functions IMO should in no circumstance be shameful or taboo.
Also, if you think all pop music sounds the same, it's because you haven't listened past radio hits: AKA where artists are pressured mentally and financially by record labels to change their sound, suppressing their creativity.
I used to dislike Taylor Swift's music, but changed my mind after taking a songwriting course, analyzing her lyrics, and then listening to her albums front-to-back.
Mozart. Oh, the genius... scales, up and down the keyboard. Up and down, back and forth. And 32nd notes stuck on the end of every. Single. Bar. He was a child prodigy. Composed ay 4 years old. And I think that's where the talent stopped developing.
Sorry, not sorry.
I think the viola with its lower timbre sounds better and more pleasing to the ear than the violin which in my opinion has a tendency to sound squeaky and ear splitting not matter the piece or the level of musician playing said piece.
Part of the problem with the violin is that many composers (especially romantic) overuse the e string. Similar issues with the flue actually (since you seen to play it). Soooooo beautiful in the lower register, bit I rarely hear anyone play there.
Mozart is overrated. I understand that he set the bases for most classical music that occurred after this, and so, it's sort of predictable and boring, and not actually that special to be honest.
I agree with you that much of his work can be boring but he has some really interesting pieces, like the Sinfonia Concertante for violin and viola, his requiem, or his mass in C major.
He does have a few interesting pieces, to be fair, such as his Fantasia in D minor, or the Requiem, or Symphony №40, but an overwhelming majority of his works are pretty boring and not really special.
It doesn’t matter who “the Paganini” of x instrument is. Once you get to that level of skill interpretation and expression is more important than precision and technical perfection
Lol no it's not "tradition". Not clapping is a relatively recent etiquette.
Traditionally people clapped not only between movements but often during performances!
As an amateur in an amateur orchestra I'll take an audience that claps between movements and time over no audience (which is the choice we have.)
Personally I think it's sweet when those who don't really know about classical music come and listen and show their enthusiasm.
I think it’s situational. Like after the first movement of the Brahms violin concerto how can you not want to clap? But after like the slow movement of Beethoven 3 it’s totally not appropriate.
I’ll never initiate a clap but if it’s after a killer performance of an energetic movement I might join in if someone else initiates it.
As a performer, I always like when people clap. I kind of especially like it at inappropriate spots because that almost necessarily means that there are some classical music newbies in the audience which is exactly what we want if we want to be playing gigs in 2050.
there comes a lesson through a question every composer must answer in their early stages before truly making any sort of profound musical statement: is your music heard or felt?
as a young man, i couldn’t answer my mentor. “heard” i thought, of course. thus ensued years of chasing the further extreme, yet progressively alienating the ears in attendance
finally, it clicked (although after he had passed, unfortunately) and i realized music is only ever meant to be felt, not heard
it’s why “pop” creates such visceral reactions; it’s why the jazz greats stood against the mathematic post-bop virtuosos; it’s why classical music has created far more snobs in obscurity than it ever did during the golden era in which we found the genius’ we now study — everyone here understood the assignment
music is to be felt, not heard. there is no art without an observer.
it is quite odd how any composer worth their salt would relish the opportunity for an audience to hem & haw and clap and boisterously applaud at *any* moment in the score, yet, the musician on stage feels entitled to silent observation?
A violin is the worst solo instrument for a concerto.
There are basically four categories I would put concertos into:
* An instrument that's not part of a standard orchestra. e.g, piano, harp, maybe something not normally associated with classical music like saxophone. The solo instrument stands out, in part because it's something you don't normally hear.
* An instrument that _is_ part of a standard orchestra, but probably won't still be in the orchestra if it's the soloist. e.g, most of the woodwinds, tuba, probably also trumpet. The solo instrument stands out as being a different sound from all the other instruments that are playing.
* An instrument that's in the orchestra, and probably _will_ still be there, but generally as harmonic support, and generally won't take the melody. e.g, viola, cello, bass, horn.
* An instrument that's in the orchestra, and _will_ take the melody when the soloist doesn't have it. The only way the solo instrument can stand out, apart from the fact that it plays alone, is by having a part that _sounds_ like its difficult to play. The only instrument in this category is the violin, and I think that makes it worse that all the others, not least because violin concertos often include extended techniques and very high positions, _just_ for the sake of being difficult, often at the expense of actually sounding good. It has to sound like something that could _only_ be played by a soloist. Otherwise you get things like the opening of Tchaikovsky's violin concerto where the whole violin section echoes what the solo violin just played, which sounds great if done occasionally, and sounds much better when done with pretty much any other instrument, but not so much with a violin. If you're going to do that the whole way through, and with a violin, you might as well just write for an orchestra without a soloist, maybe with an occasional concertmaster solo.
Concerning with elitism - I think people should be properly educated on when to clap. A bit elitist, but it does bug me a bit when an incredible recording is interrupted by some improper applause. Coughs are also on that list but that's much harder to deal with, especially considering classical music performances tend to have a more mature audience watching.
If you don't play an instrument, there is a higher chance that you find classical music "boring".
A big reason why classical music entertains me so much is because my brain is constantly stimulated trying to notice the different dynamics, phrasing, tone, rhythm, difficulty of technique and other elements in the piece/performance. These are things that you pay more attention to especially when you play an instrument since these are things that you study and practice constantly yourself.
So when someone says they find classical music boring and they don't play/practice any instruments, I don't take it too personally 'cause how would they know? Lol.
I know non-white or women composers existing. By saying that 'I can't name any of them' I mean to say that there are none on the top of my mind because I hear (of) them regularly in the classical music scene.
I just did a small sample on the local classical channel: over the last 8 hours they have played works by all white male composers, most of them European. The exceptions; one (white) American, one woman.
The ability to compose and improvise should be taught along side with technical abilities. Because I believe that one of the main problem with not be able to play a piece is because you don't understand it, but with the ability to compose, it would be faster to be familiar with the forms, the modulations,... And plus, composing also help "resurrecting" tonal classical music
Improvisation should be taught formally. Sure, you're not going to improvise in a concert (unless you double as a jazz or other style musician), BUT improv skills are so important for musicality.
Especially knowing that almost all great classical composers were great improvisers who did so publicly a lot.
I wouldn't mind the return of improvized cadenzas for concertos to allow the soloist to express his musicality.
Agreed.
THIS!!! I constantly improvise at the piano, and I cannot imagine so many other classical pianists like me out there who are too afraid to improvise: it's like knowing how to read without knowing how to talk.
Agreed! Really wish I had had instruction in improv myself!
That it is, indeed, elitist. Culture itself isn't as accessible as one may think and that's what makes people that talk about classical music, or any other kind of art, as something that should be common knowledge makes everyone that enjoys, study or listen to classical music be labelled as snobs. That's what makes people lose interest in searching and educate themselves too, in my opinion. Fortunately there are people like Brett and Eddy that work to make culture more accessible. I don't really know if that's really an unpopular opinion but I hear too many people say that it's not that hard to learn and inform oneself about it and even mock someone for not knowing something that isn't that easy.
It comes in two ways. A lot of people who don't listen to classical music or anything see us as snobs, people who think they are above everyone else. However, some of us are elitists, but it shouldn't be a stereotype of any sort.
It shouldn't be but it is. Unfortunately, there are too many people that act as if they're superior only because they have a little knowledge about classical music. I think that comes with a "gotta show I'm the smartest person in the room just because I'm talking about something they don't know". Most of my non-musician friends thought everyone that studies or has an interest in classical music was like that.
Elitist, both within and outside the community. Worst gatekeeping than any other hobbyist communities that I know of. Throw the "classical visual arts people" in there too. Toxic perfectionism. Anything related to classical music should not be treated as "the be-all and end-all" career. Get a stable day job unrelated to that.
This, 100%. I'm earning my degree in music, but my end goal is to work outside of it and just keep it as a side hobby in the long run.
I know many of my peers who have one or two businesses outside of anything that involves pitch. I myself is very lucky to be in a niche section of historical musicology. But I have an exit plan and planning relegate all my musical endeavors to be not a bread-and-butter kind of thing.
absolutely agreed, too phony
Agreed. I’m a lawyer by profession- but hobbyist violinist in 3 different orchestras. It’s been a lifelong passion- but I knew it wouldn’t be lucrative enough financially- I did play with the Houston Youth Symphony as a kid- but my parents didn’t have money for lessons, etc- I was just lucky to have good public school educators and good youth symphony instruction— but there really didn’t seem to be any big solo career in my future. Lol. 😊
I've been noticing that. As a hobbyist musician myself, this is why I still haven't gone for a degree in music. I love music theory and want to explore non-western styles theoretically, but I just eyeroll at having to put up with the elitism in Academia.
Yes, despite having a music degree myself, elitism and the ego enlargement tournaments are rampant. Because of that, it burned me to this day. But I still have a job related to music, but it is far removed from the performance/pedagogy job market competition.
Interesting. I don't see anything wrong with getting a job related to classical music tho... Although working alongside classical music lovers can definitely foster elitism...
I'd rather make all my music related endeavors a serious hobby instead of career despite completing a bachelor's degree in piano. Right now I am an office wagie wrangling musicologists, which is bearable.
non-musicians say classical music is "boring". but do i have to show you in 10 sec how to play those three lousy chords for your fav song that repeat for two and a half minutes?
I agree that some classical music is boring. But clearly, they are not listening to the right pieces.
EXACTLY!!!!!! My brother, who is not a classical musician at all, says all classical music is the same. No it’s not!!!!!!!! If anything all pop music is the same, with the same four chords repeating for three minutes. And all rap music is the same with the lyrics about money and partying all day and partying all night. At least classical music isn’t so predictable!!!!!!!
Classical musicians try not to bash other types of music challenge. Level: impossible
Lol 😂 I don’t hate pop music though, I’m just pointing out the irony of people saying classical music is all the same when pop music always has the same repeating chords.
YES!!!! and i especially cannOOOOt stand it when pop musicians \*cough-\*bla\*coughcough\*ckpi\*sneeze\*nk just steal melodies like hellooo000?
Bach used part of Pergolesi's Stabat Mater to compose his Psalm 52. So I guess pop musicians are not the only ones who do that T.T
That was an overt reuse. It isn't comparable to times Handel would lift things to pass off as his own.
*cough cough* Eric Carmen *cough cough* All By Myself *cough cough* Rach 2 Also, I just happened to play Rach 2 in my orchestra concert yesterday so that one is especially fresh for me
omg congrats!! and not to forget bum bum tam tam 😂😂😂😂 nah that completely destroyed me
ALSOOOOO…. Shut Down by Blackpink. I know next to zilch about Kpop music, but as soon as I heard this I knew they completely plagiarized La Campanella 😂🙄 Also, to make matters worse, if stealing La Campanella wasn’t enough… they took the first few measures of it and repeated it over and over again, turning a beautiful piece of music into something that’s essentially the same thing as the boring repeated chord progressions that all pop music seems to have. 🙄
Idk man, I feel like "Shut Down by Blackpink is repeated bars of La Campanella" isn't as "unpopular" as you think it is in this subreddit. That's just me though. Tis but a jest. -IllogicalInterpreter
He has paid royalties to Rach's estate. Steal from the best.
I once took an uber and driver had spotify on with "electronic" music playlist, in which each and every track (it was almost an hour long ride) was made of 10 seconds piece of a very well known melody looped and overplayed with "bit". Not all were from classical music. But none were original. Ugh.
I mean... a lot of classical music, especially baroque and classic era, also follows quite simple chord patterns it repeats a lot, not that there's anything wrong with that or that music can't be complex despite using a basic chord progression
Some chords just sound good with each other and will be used together. As in all music. Bach himself was able to produce so many pieces in his short time at court because he puzzled together groups of chords/notes/chord transitions that sound good For classical, you can see it especially well in a midi format imo. Little sections that are grouped together and reused, maybe in a different pitch maybe on a different octave. I personally think the first and third movement of moonlight sonata shows that well. I love it, its beautiful, but its repetitive. Because repetitive makes it sound good. Not all pieces or songs have to be chaos to sound good In pop and other lyrical music, you use them for background, the singing is the main part. You dont need fancy chord progression for that. Classical doesnt have lyrics, it needs to deter a bit and sound different, but not too different. Habanera is one of my favourite opera pieces, if you just play it on the piano you get the same notes over and over again with different transitions (where the singing usually overtones the music) I am currently learning comptine d'un autre été on the guitar. It’s 3 sections in repetition with different transitions Thank you for attending my unpopular opinion
They all say "it's boring because they don't have lyrics" but literally listen to some of the most simple pieces, they cherry pick. And then go "WoooooW!" When the 4 beat melody repeats on top about Taylor Swift crying about how guy #99923 cheated on her. I can literally show them 1 Richard Meyer song and it likely change their mind.
Production quality is a huge part of what makes pop good. You're removing 99% of the music and evaluating it based on a classical definition of good music. How many pop *musicians* have asked this? The way we present and listen to classical music is boring compared to basically any modern genre.
~Figured bass~, roman numerals, and voice leading are descriptive, not prescriptive. Edit: Redacting figured bass. That is useful and prescriptive, I'm an idiot. But you know what actually is worthless? Schenkerian analysis. That racist has no place in musical study.
all theory, really. people love to forget this. you don’t compose theory, you study it
Figured bass is usually telling you what to play. Sometimes what it tells you is just what's going on in other parts not what to play. If telling what to play isn't prescriptive, what is? In accompanied duo and trio textures, the figured bass often instructs many notes which are not otherwise in the other parts.
I fully forgot and had roman numeral analysis' definition applied to it as well.
The music is great, some of the fans are a little…intense…
Canon in D sounds nice. I am sorry. I just like the chord pattern. Not that I would play it.
It is nice. 😊 But please don't play it at my wedding 😁
I agree, it actually is a really nice piece. That being said, I can TOTALLY see why people, especially cellists hate playing it. The cellists definitely got screwed over on that one.
Yup. Also, it’s been played so many times.
145114511451....
I can forgive any cellist for hating it but otherwise yes, there's a reason it's so popular.
"The worst cello part ever written in the history of cello parts" \- Rob Paravonian
Truth. That part could have been way more creative. And the piece sounds ok without it as well.
Overplayed doesn't mean bad the piece is amazing
Pachelbel's music is indeed beautiful. I'm a baby violinist right now but one day I'd be super happy to play the famous Canon with other musicians.
This comment goes hard under the one about how pop music with repetitive chord progressions is boring. In seriousness though, simple does not mean bad, it just means that it’s easier to tell when it’s bad.
Guys idk if you wanna hear this, but playing music is a million times better than listening to it. Also, theres bound to be filler in a 34 min piece, not every measure is godly.
I stand with you. Listening to other people is okay I guess and necessary for growth, but I'd rather be doing it myself.
i) Chamber music is more interesting than orchestral music and ii) early and modern music are both more interesting than 'Golden Age' classical music.
i mean chamber music and orchestral music are different beasts, but you have a wider array of textures with an orchestra.
A wider array of mushy textures, to my ear. But I guess a lot of it depends on what musical sounds imprinted on your ear as a kid. I seem to relate better to crisper, minimal textures.
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The only opinion I can think of that would be unpopular is that a lot of classical music is dull. Not all of course, but ....
I mean like 90% of music from any genre is gonna be kinda boring for any given person.
Very true. The only difference is that classical music is still held in the highest regard as far as music goes. It is the epitome of beautiful music.
Vibrato should only be used sparingly as an ornament again. Both in singing and various instruments. Paganini was more of a party trick than a musician. A hard earned party trick, granted, but still party trick. His music could sound nice without the unnecessary technical difficulties.
Vibrato in singing is used on every note because it’s healthy technique, not just because some old people decided it sounded good in opera. Vibrato facilitates a release of tension in the vocal chords which ultimately helps the singing feel natural, free, and easy — all beneficial especially when pieces are virtuosic
That may be so, I'm far from a singing specialist. It's still far too much for my taste. It's not rare that I can't even discern the pitch a note is supposed to have because of all the vibration and some may like that, I don't.
Vibrato may be "healthy technique", but sounds horrible when used in every instance possible, and the majority of vibrato spamming singers that I know of, are forcing vibrato with their jaw rather than it naturally occuring (and it sounds terrible).
I wish I could upvote this a million times
I cringe when I hear a violinist vibrato very single note 🫠
As a violin student who was trained to do that, all my peers do it, and my teacher does it as well, it might be because it stemmed from the Romantic Era, or to cover up some intonation issues (you know who you are). Ngl I only really do it on certain passages, it depends on the piece.
Yeah I get that! Actually, I’m just at the point in violin where I want to put vibrato on everything to “make it sound nicer” 😂 such a tempting mistress
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Looking at you; 12 tone theory.
Looking at you Paganini.
lmaoooo
I'm sick of technical perfection. I'm sick of hearing it, I'm sick of trying to achieve it. Give me humanity, and flaws, and energy, and passion.
Early 20th century musicians had teachers who were Romantic period composers. Fiddlers like Fritz Kreisler had technical excellence and Romantic passion too. Classical musicians had distinctive voices. You could tell one musician from another because of different styles.
I think it would be cool if there were normal classical concerts but also ones where you can like dance (like at a festival/rave) idk how to explain but it would be so much fun
sign me up. now. It could be like those masquerade balls in the movies or just a disco party with rach.
the elitism and gatekeeping that so many of us seem to show i've seen it on here before, mocking non musicians for liking "generic" pieces like canon in d or saying their favourite composer is mozart quite frankly, who cares? sure canon in d is overplayed, *because it's a good piece of music*. there's a reason mozart is so famous, *he's a brilliant composer*. it's this gatekeeping and mocking of people who try to fit in that make people think classical musicians are elitist snobs, and who can blame them?
I'm all for musical gateway drugs.
I don't enjoy Beethoven's music viscerally/emotionally. I find it interesting and mentally stimulating but I can't derive enjoyment from his music. Admittedly, I have not given the entirety of his works a chance for a long while.
Came here to say it…
I adore his piano sonatas, lol
Atonal music is way overrated Historically informed performance is way overrated
I see what you’re saying but you can always open your ears a bit to other music. Here’s something that’s more tonal than Schöenberg but still is atonal and very beautiful: [Liszt’s Bagatelle sans tonalité](https://youtu.be/yc_HjEa8k5k?feature=shared) Now MY unpopular opinion is that music older than romantic music is underrated, so I guess I’ll write an essay about it right now. 😂 Let me ask you which recording you would prefer: [this one](https://youtu.be/LHjbRMIIhuM?feature=shared) or [this one](https://youtu.be/gvs4v_aswfk?feature=shared) Both definitely have musical value but something feels off and unnatural about the immediate vibrato on every note that’s long enough in Gould’s recording. Of course, this is just one example, and the advancement in recording technology makes much of the difference. But which sounds more natural? To me, it’s the authentic instruments, strings and bows, harpsichord and wooden flute. Here’s another example: [Twoset’s performance](https://youtu.be/qYcvm6X0TYM?feature=shared) versus [a historically informed one](https://youtu.be/ILKJcsET-NM?feature=shared). Take a look at the third movement. It seems like the bows just flow more easily and elegantly in the Netherlands Bach Society one than Twoset’s, does it? In general, the sound just feels more open in the historically informed ones. Also, [this](https://youtu.be/DzxlMfUzqIM?feature=shared) could never really be achieved with piano. Also here’s a [fun one](https://youtu.be/xx8ooc-s7OQ?feature=shared) and [another](https://youtu.be/yIQ6V38MkEw?feature=shared) if you want to take a listen. Maybe I’m just too in love with this kind of music though. What do you think?
Schumann violin concerto is insanely underrated. Never hears twoset mention it and theres only a few recordings of it
This is so correct.
I feel they concentrate on a few pieces and musicians they like and ignore the rest.
I came here to say that!!
Violas are amazing, beautiful instruments and people only say they don't like them because TSV tells you to
They've stopped doing that as much and [this](https://youtu.be/zk25UgLw71s?si=gp3lNk1J5GKRwzIn) video is a huge improvement on the kind of stuff they used to say about violas.
Unpopular opinion, maybe, or perhaps just a bitter pill that plenty more people need to swallow: The “average classical musician” will need a day job to make ends meet. Otherwise you’re going to be stressed, exhausted and broke unless you are A) top of field, as in THE TOP; B) get really lucky, or C) work something like 80-100 hours a week. Best decision I ever made career wise for my music, ironically, was working a day job. I am a paralegal at a law firm and I want to go to law school, a long time dream, and I couldn’t be happier. I love the work. There’s a whole world out there besides music to explore. Since taking a day job with a salary and good insurance, I feel I’ve become a better musician since I’m not as stressed about simply living. I found my artistic voice and do music on my own terms now, 100% historical performance. Honestly it rocks :)
Absolutely. That’s why as a music major who is currently one semester away from graduating, I am very thankful that I am also minoring in mass communications, so I can do something with that as a job. I’m probably going to end up combining music and mass com for my career :)
the 2nd movement of Moonlight Sonata is the best. 1st is so boring and 3rd is overhyped. 2nd is dynamic but calm and fun to play.
You're so real for that
Spitting the facts!!!
Also the last movement of Beethoven 5. Definitely one of my favourite movements of all time.
I like listening to Flight of the Bumblebee (the original one). I personally find it pretty catchy and it does its job in representing an insect flying around. But I absolutely hate how overplayed it is and how it is treated as a "skill proof" by most non-musicians.
Ugh yes I just cringe every time I hear it now. It's such a fun piece and I hate it thanks to how obnoxious people have made it.
I agree that the community is rife with elitism. But I don’t think the belief that you should not clap between movements is elitist. I personally love the silence when the movement ends, the last note/chord ringing out into the hall… and then the next movement begins! Or hearing two movements blend in so well together. The clapping really takes me out of it! Also: I am fed up of seeing every local concert ONLY playing Vivaldi’s Four Seasons. These events are usually aimed at the general public, and are a lot of people’s first experience of seeing a classical concert, so I understand why they would play something recognisable (and more likely to sell out). But why does it always have to be that piece! I’m fed up of hearing it now
There is way too much snobism in classical music. I see it too in this thread here as well. "All pop music is just the same." "Pop music steals from classical composers." "People should not clap between movements." I see so much 'classical music is just superior to all other music'. Which is not just snobism and classism, it is also racist and to an extent misogynist. You want classical music to have a bad reputation and not attract new young enthusiasts both as musicians or audience, because yelling *Sacrilegious!* at everything that you don't like and feeling better for it, is exactly how you get that to happen.
as a black violinist I’m glad you brought up racism, a lot of people act like these classical music spaces are only for upper class white people when they should be enjoyed and accessed to everyone
To be fair, clapping does change the vibe of a performance like clapping 1/3 of the way through a movie would. And I'm a young enthusiast.
"racist and to an extent misogynist"?!! Wtf? Please explain yourself step by step, I want to understand
it’s okay if someone calls a piece a song, it’s never that serious
I've met loads of good musicians and none of them seem to care. This sub can get very defensive over random things sometimes.
omg a taeko ohnuki enjoyer in the wild!
The (classical/opera) singing makes the music worse imo. Definitely unpopular opinion I guess. Like any time a classical singer comes in, I'm sad because the beautiful part of music is going 'to waste' (I make this bigger than it is, exaggerated it a bit, but still)
Depending on who it is, yeah. I find lower parts to be more easy on my ears than the sopranos, who can sometimes "waste the music". Other times voices add volume and depth to a part, and make the piece more grandiose.
My unpopular opinion is adjacent to this in that I think choral music sounds way better than a soloist or small vocal ensemble
Truee
Yeah right? Im always searching for the orchestral only recordings of all the good operas, Cavellaria Rusticana is such an example. As soon as someone opens his mouth i press stop.
Gotta agree with this
As a singer, I agree to an extent - the overdone wobbly vibrato REALLY ruins music!
Overuse of vibrato is such a common thing among all singers coming out of Conservatoires / Conservatories. Vocal departments that focus on opera heavily seem to pump out these singers, who all sound the same, and use vibrato as much as possible. I wish singers would sound unique, and not conform to the same copy paste voices that are on every recording from the past 50 years,
Yeah, opera singing is definitely an acquired taste, and I still don't enjoy it much.
It's the best way to sing louder than an orchestra without a mic without destroying your vocal chords. The genre grew around that reality and honestly I'm not a fan of how it sounds either.
Perfecting a piece is not to play a piece flawlessly with no wrong notes but more or less to musically perfect it.
Maybe it's both & combining the two?
I think the implication was that playing it flawlessly comes first. Like, playing every note correctly is a starting point, and if you're still playing wrong notes, you're not ready to start perfecting it musically yet.
Renaissance & baroque music are actually great. I don't really like Tschaikovsky. It's just not my style & I never listen to any of his music twice. =/
"Everything has to be professional in classical music." To elaborate, it's that you have to be all elite and act all fancy when in classical music. And I hate this a lot. There are people who are new to the classical music community, but ever so often, some guy will say something like-: "THIS ISN'T A SYMPHONY, THIS IS A** BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE THE STUFF THAT CLASSICAL MUSICIANS HAD BACK THEN!!!" It annoys me so much. Everything has to be perfect, everything has to be like this, everything has to sound like this, and this, and this- like- DEAR GOD. 😭
Unpopular opinion here: I prefer Rachmaninov’s music over Chopin’s. I don’t deny that Chopin composed beautiful music but it doesn’t really appeal to me as much as Rachmaninov does
Don’t worry about that. It’s more so a preference. I enjoy both but Chopin really moves me with all four of his ballades, specifically the 3 I have a significant emotional connection to. And I’d imagine a composer as great as Rachmaninov will do the same for just as many people as well. It’s good to appreciate all different kinds of composers.
Mozart is overrated.
Hmm - thing is, it's quite a popular opinion. My piano teacher once said, that a lot of young people think Mozart overrated, and then, when they get older, the rediscover & appreciate him in a different way. I kind of get that. When people study music, and are perpetually told to play (arguably boring) Mozart string quartets) and are made to get through all the endledd, repetitive Mozarty stuff - it will seem really annoying. But with a greater distance, perhaps one can discover Mozart's role in the classical period& development of western music, and also his specific talent & his really individual style. But I think Moszart is part of why people say classic is dull. Because neither are performances always historically informed AND by great musicians, and also, not all his stuff is really super interesting, and you need to kind of like classical music. But then, if you hear the requiem, or some arias, I doubt anyone would be bored... TLDR I feel you but it's complicated!
I am 43 years old and do not think, that my opinion will change. Maybe because I'm #teamjsbach 😃
Fair enough! And Bach totally rocks.
Correct take (ignore flair)
Its arguable but I respect your opinion
Thank you. 😊 I know, I will receive many downvotes for this.
This just hurts to read 😭. How can you hate Wolfie.
Hey, it’s fine. Overrated doesn’t necessarily mean bad
I like that he was the first IP-pirate and an opensource activist. Sorta. You know the story. If you don't, there was a time when each church had its own music and guarded it very much. But then a young prodigy came to a mass and after he left he wrote down the whole score, just by memory, rendering the whole guarding of music obsolete. As for compositions, there are a few that are really good, and many many more that just are.
I've felt this way about Mozart for most of my life as a musician, but recently I've realized that his being overrated doesn't mean his music is bad. Lots of his music is incredible, and he was still a skilled composer, pianist, and improviser. What I dislike about Mozart is that he's performed FAR too often. My local symphony performed a Mozart symphony every year, sometimes even having whole concerts dedicated to his music. I never once saw any other composer's symphonies or concertos performed as often. Some might argue that his music deserves to be performed so much and studied so much because it's so technically refined or even "perfect." But such a view of a composer only seems to matter to musicians who value that kind of thing. There's more to music than perfection though, and the perfectionism of classical music is one of the turn offs that people have with classical music. These are just some thoughts. To summarize, Mozart's music really is excellent, but he's performed too often at the expense of music that would probably mean more to your average audience.
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Beethoven's 3rd symphony sucks.
I agree! I really don't get the hype! And Beethoven is one of my favourites!
I can appreciate Mozart, but I'm just not a fan of his music. Same goes with Beethoven
Vivaldi’s Four Seasons doesn’t deserve the amount of hate it gets.
Vivaldi is boring.
because those pieces are written for kids?
What about Vivaldi is boring?
Originally by Glenn Gould but still: The performer might know a piece more intricately than the composer.
Unpopular opinion, USA doesn't have any great classical pianist to speak of and it's not appreciated in this country the same way. While many come here to play from other countries, I really can't think of any here. Please name some if I'm wrong. Canada,Europe, and Asia are really bringing it, though.
The Van Cliburn Piano Competition is in Fort Worth Texas. Cliburn was from Kilgore, Texas.
Let people clap whenever they want. If what is played makes people cheer halfway through, it's a compliment.
I genuinely find listening to contemporary atonal music enjoyable. (The "soulless academic music" stuff)
People shouldn't be belittled for coughing or sneezing during performances. It's a natural, involuntary bodily function. And bodily functions IMO should in no circumstance be shameful or taboo. Also, if you think all pop music sounds the same, it's because you haven't listened past radio hits: AKA where artists are pressured mentally and financially by record labels to change their sound, suppressing their creativity. I used to dislike Taylor Swift's music, but changed my mind after taking a songwriting course, analyzing her lyrics, and then listening to her albums front-to-back.
Mahler's third symphony is too long.
"if you can play it slowly you can play it quickly" is actually sensible advice that shouldn't be dumped just because a hack said it
Mozart. Oh, the genius... scales, up and down the keyboard. Up and down, back and forth. And 32nd notes stuck on the end of every. Single. Bar. He was a child prodigy. Composed ay 4 years old. And I think that's where the talent stopped developing. Sorry, not sorry.
I think the viola with its lower timbre sounds better and more pleasing to the ear than the violin which in my opinion has a tendency to sound squeaky and ear splitting not matter the piece or the level of musician playing said piece.
Part of the problem with the violin is that many composers (especially romantic) overuse the e string. Similar issues with the flue actually (since you seen to play it). Soooooo beautiful in the lower register, bit I rarely hear anyone play there.
AND WELL I THINK....well actually you might be onto something. I personally prefer cello though (no hate to violagang).
Mozart is overrated. I understand that he set the bases for most classical music that occurred after this, and so, it's sort of predictable and boring, and not actually that special to be honest.
I agree with you that much of his work can be boring but he has some really interesting pieces, like the Sinfonia Concertante for violin and viola, his requiem, or his mass in C major.
He does have a few interesting pieces, to be fair, such as his Fantasia in D minor, or the Requiem, or Symphony №40, but an overwhelming majority of his works are pretty boring and not really special.
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I mean, yes, Mozart was important in the History of music, but so was Bach, and I much prefer Bach. I agree the child prodigy is overrated.
Classical rock crossover is fun, accessible and the way more fun than symphony concerts.
right of spring is ugly af
It doesn’t matter who “the Paganini” of x instrument is. Once you get to that level of skill interpretation and expression is more important than precision and technical perfection
Unless you’re Ling Ling. Then, perfection REALLY matters.
Bach is 90% boring arpeggios.
depends on what repertoire you look at
People need to learn NOT to clap between movements. It's not elitist, it's tradition, imho.
Lol no it's not "tradition". Not clapping is a relatively recent etiquette. Traditionally people clapped not only between movements but often during performances!
As an amateur in an amateur orchestra I'll take an audience that claps between movements and time over no audience (which is the choice we have.) Personally I think it's sweet when those who don't really know about classical music come and listen and show their enthusiasm.
I think it’s situational. Like after the first movement of the Brahms violin concerto how can you not want to clap? But after like the slow movement of Beethoven 3 it’s totally not appropriate. I’ll never initiate a clap but if it’s after a killer performance of an energetic movement I might join in if someone else initiates it. As a performer, I always like when people clap. I kind of especially like it at inappropriate spots because that almost necessarily means that there are some classical music newbies in the audience which is exactly what we want if we want to be playing gigs in 2050.
there comes a lesson through a question every composer must answer in their early stages before truly making any sort of profound musical statement: is your music heard or felt? as a young man, i couldn’t answer my mentor. “heard” i thought, of course. thus ensued years of chasing the further extreme, yet progressively alienating the ears in attendance finally, it clicked (although after he had passed, unfortunately) and i realized music is only ever meant to be felt, not heard it’s why “pop” creates such visceral reactions; it’s why the jazz greats stood against the mathematic post-bop virtuosos; it’s why classical music has created far more snobs in obscurity than it ever did during the golden era in which we found the genius’ we now study — everyone here understood the assignment music is to be felt, not heard. there is no art without an observer. it is quite odd how any composer worth their salt would relish the opportunity for an audience to hem & haw and clap and boisterously applaud at *any* moment in the score, yet, the musician on stage feels entitled to silent observation?
A violin is the worst solo instrument for a concerto. There are basically four categories I would put concertos into: * An instrument that's not part of a standard orchestra. e.g, piano, harp, maybe something not normally associated with classical music like saxophone. The solo instrument stands out, in part because it's something you don't normally hear. * An instrument that _is_ part of a standard orchestra, but probably won't still be in the orchestra if it's the soloist. e.g, most of the woodwinds, tuba, probably also trumpet. The solo instrument stands out as being a different sound from all the other instruments that are playing. * An instrument that's in the orchestra, and probably _will_ still be there, but generally as harmonic support, and generally won't take the melody. e.g, viola, cello, bass, horn. * An instrument that's in the orchestra, and _will_ take the melody when the soloist doesn't have it. The only way the solo instrument can stand out, apart from the fact that it plays alone, is by having a part that _sounds_ like its difficult to play. The only instrument in this category is the violin, and I think that makes it worse that all the others, not least because violin concertos often include extended techniques and very high positions, _just_ for the sake of being difficult, often at the expense of actually sounding good. It has to sound like something that could _only_ be played by a soloist. Otherwise you get things like the opening of Tchaikovsky's violin concerto where the whole violin section echoes what the solo violin just played, which sounds great if done occasionally, and sounds much better when done with pretty much any other instrument, but not so much with a violin. If you're going to do that the whole way through, and with a violin, you might as well just write for an orchestra without a soloist, maybe with an occasional concertmaster solo.
Thank you! I had never thought of it this way but this feels so true.
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Bel Canto opera is borrrrring. Give me verismo any day.
Concerning with elitism - I think people should be properly educated on when to clap. A bit elitist, but it does bug me a bit when an incredible recording is interrupted by some improper applause. Coughs are also on that list but that's much harder to deal with, especially considering classical music performances tend to have a more mature audience watching.
If you don't play an instrument, there is a higher chance that you find classical music "boring". A big reason why classical music entertains me so much is because my brain is constantly stimulated trying to notice the different dynamics, phrasing, tone, rhythm, difficulty of technique and other elements in the piece/performance. These are things that you pay more attention to especially when you play an instrument since these are things that you study and practice constantly yourself. So when someone says they find classical music boring and they don't play/practice any instruments, I don't take it too personally 'cause how would they know? Lol.
Mozart wasn’t actually that good
Baroque musique was the absolute golden age of classical music it's truly an opinion and not at all objective, but here you go
Most music after Beethoven is mediocre. And that Francois Couperin, Biber, and Lully are easily part of the top 10 greatest composers of all time.
Mozart is overrated
Mozart is better than Beethoven idk why
I know non-white or women composers existing. By saying that 'I can't name any of them' I mean to say that there are none on the top of my mind because I hear (of) them regularly in the classical music scene. I just did a small sample on the local classical channel: over the last 8 hours they have played works by all white male composers, most of them European. The exceptions; one (white) American, one woman.
The ability to compose and improvise should be taught along side with technical abilities. Because I believe that one of the main problem with not be able to play a piece is because you don't understand it, but with the ability to compose, it would be faster to be familiar with the forms, the modulations,... And plus, composing also help "resurrecting" tonal classical music
that more string players should hold their toothbrush like a bow while brushing their teeth ( I do it )
to practice tremolo and stuff