exactly, i can never understand this type of mindset, i understand hating something, but hating something and continuing it despite all that just makes no sense to me.
i tried HWFWM myself and finished book 1, i didnt' really like it so i dropped it, it was as simple as that š
With this, probably because the book prior to
Monsters was actually a pretty good one. I really enjoyed it, but it is unfortunately overshadowed by the "load of diarrhea" (inside joke if you read the book) that is 80% of the monsters book.
This is how I approached The Dungeon Slayer, by Konrad Ryan. Props to him for getting his work published and having some cool covers, but I hated every single thing about his first book. Characters, pacing, overly descriptive long action scenes, frontloaded exposition, whiniest MC ever, no character arc, I could go on.
Dude it gets so much worse. By the 4th/5th book it's mostly torture porn. Long drawn out mutilation, flayings, denerving, amputations, etc
It really bothers me that it's listed as a children's book on Amazon.
Hey so im gunna try and make this metaphor work but I look at books like legos, and sometimes you find a book with several cool sets of legos all ready to be put together. But sometimes the author decides hey I'm gunna glue this piece onto something else or just leave a set completely. At the end of the day there might be some cool sets that have been built but the collection is ruined in some way.
This can be annoying characters that show up every blue moon. Or a character can be irritating as fuck but what they are doing is very entertaining. Cool concept's could be explored that interest the reader. But usually when you get rants like this they just got fed up with the most annoying aspects and are ranting to find like minded people.
Or just view it as a simple math equation. "Am I going to be happier or angrier after reading this book?"
If the answer is happier keep chugging along, if the answer isn't happier then just drop it already. Apply that same logic to most things in life and do what makes you happy (emphasis on MOST).
You say that it's easy to do that type of math. I've read far into books that I don't like because in some aspects I find it entertaining, on others I find it educational. Ive read series I've absolutely hated in hopes of characters finding happy endings. I have left series because the writing became lazy or predictable.
Most entertainment is a gamble, I've read books I generally don't like or enjoy because the concept was interesting and I've never truly thought about it. One of my favorite series frustrates me all the time, but its faithful representation of concepts is encapsulating. I find it more annoying that people are mad at the response to a media rather than engaging with it
i see, that is actually something i have done before, especially with the dragon heart series, i kept going until the end of book 2 and around the middle parts of book 3, until i finally decided that i actualyl enjoyed the book. i kept reading until around book 11 im pretty sure or 12 and then i finally stopped. but the dragon heart series was the only one that i made an exception for, never tried that method agian on other books, probably missed out a lot but ehh
I can't do that because Mama didn't raise no quitter. My KU borrow is maxed out with dog shit and I am slowly going through them and hating every minute of it. I must suffer so that the author can get honest feedback in my review later on.
I use this feature rarely.
If you can't do it via chat, you can do it via a call. Sometimes they slightly hassle you ("do you know how to check reviews"), but they let you do it
At least, they have so far. Like I said, I only do it rarely
You can do it via chat, I do it about once a month. Just tell them thanks once they've gotten it taken care of and end the chat, they'll try and recommend some garbage for you to spend that credit on, just close it out after saying thanks.
Facts! I didnāt like HWFWM so I stopped on the second book and never looked back. Your not gonna like everything thatās popular just put it down and read something else
I thought The Land was downright amazing the first time I went through it. The world he built is honestly beautiful (as I remember it), albeit a bit clumsily presented at times. I couldn't ***stand*** it on a re-read. All the problems just threw themselves at me.
Richter is an immature, selfish asshole. Everything falls into his lap. He meets all the right people and they all think he's charming instead of calling him out as the unprepared, uninformed, foolish person he is.
I still think the general setting is great. And I think the series could be great with a handful of adjustments (Richter not being **so** annoying or growing out of it, working harder to gain people's trust and loyalty, working harder for his lucky breaks instead of them just happening). It has so much potential. But Aleron just made it too much of a fanfic-style self-insert.
Yeah the first few books are good in my opinion and make the world and system really great. I think it gets rough as time goes on but liked book 7, and then book 8 is garbage
"The good guys" takes what Richter did and makes it realistic for a noob to the entire planet suddenly finding themselves in power and building a town from scratch.
yeah the system to me is one of if not the best in the genre, it felt so deep yet intuitive - it was just ruined by a convenient story and horrible characters
He's the self-proclaimed "father of American litrpg." Emphasis on self. No one else recognizes the title as he was neither the first nor is he the best of American litrpg and specifying American because the genre was popular elsewhere first, but you want to take credit is pathetic.
Afaik he's not super popular here, but there are some fans and a lot of people know of him as The Land was many people's first exposure to the genre, mine included.
His books have aged poorly in that regard. Super niche jokes like "what does the fox say" and basing characters on popular TV series have an expiration date.
I personally get the hate of authors who do dumb shit like try to own the rights to litrpg/apocalypse or whatever but the books aren't really worth the time to hate. You can just stop reading them. There's far too many good books to keep with a series you don't like.
This. I've dropped a few series, even when I was balls deep because I just couldn't do it anymore. The Land, The Ten Realms (which was frustrating because his Emerilla series is fantastic, but Ten Realms is just a slog after book 4), The World...
Agree completely on The World. It started interesting, especially with the side quest stuff. That is exactly how I am in many games.
And then it became a slog and I quit somewhere in book 4 I think.
Keeps popping up on my recommended series to complete.
I feel like that is more of a nod to live action RPG campaigns as I would do this all the time as a GM and the players would eat it up.Ā So I see it as a fun reference to that.Ā
It was pretty fun for the campaigns but I could see how it doesn't work nearly as well in novel form.Ā Ā
Still respect this work as my first exposure to litRPG and I look back on it fondly.Ā I'm not sure I would be into it today after the 200 or so I've read now though.
Yeah I think the problem is the pop culture references themselves are more meme references and not really pop culture. So like mayor of noobtown hasn't really aged poorly because for the most part it's basketball pug references and starwars references.
Anyone with that big of an ego is worth taking a massive shit on, it would also fit the content of his books since they contain chapters dedicated to diarrhea.
Lmao first Iām hearing of his so called title and Iāve read dozens of litrpg/progression stories. Glad it doesnāt seem to be a title anyone takes seriously. Like that time Tao Wong copyrighted āapocalypse systemā. Fuck that
i mean tao wong DOES have primary rights to system apocalypse so you SHOULD take them seriously in that regard so you dont get screwed over in court. thankfully Kong only recieved secondary rights to LitRPG so he cant enforce exclusivity, which he was clear he was going to. he plays up the whole āgenerously allowing people to use LitRPGā because most people dont understand the difference between a primary and a secondary right and dont know he has no legal grounds to enforce anything.
I started with Defiance of the Fall. Going to preachy, agenda filled HWFWM after was like someone spitting in my face, rather than someone who wanted to entertain with a great story. I don't know how anyone gets through it.
Hm, I can't recall which one was the first one I read/listened to; it may well have been HWFWM š and I'm waiting for the Audible release of the latest book š¤
Ten Realms Book One. It was free on Kindle for a limited time, and I loved it enough to subscribe to Kindle Unlimited. I devoured his Emerilla series before Ten Realms Book Two came out, and I've been reading LitRPG ever since. According to my KU history, I've read 921 books since 2018, with about 3/4ths being LitRPG (the rest being Space Opera).
Black ocean series if you like space opera. The entire series is available for like three credits on audible and theyāre like 100 hours each or something crazy like that.
Book 8 a whole chapter describing how the poorly cooked food the MC cooked and then ate is tearing his asshole up and overly describes it. Somehow brings in a weird story back to Earth I think. I kid you not a whole chapter of it.
The thing about litrpg authors is that a lot of them get published through less than reputable companies, and thatās after theyāve written and released several books on online forums like royal road. Thatās partially why they read like bad fan fiction, because a lot of them are just that.
Unironically want something like this (not fan fiction). I love the way XCOM progresses, invaders that you have to research, learn all the weird things about them, their powers, their weaknesses, their technology and how to integrate it into your own weapons, etc., but I haven't found anything similar.
XCOM does it really well, but I need a novel, not a couple paragraphs every couple missions!
If you want to read what I started and failed, it's *Humanity Screams* on royal road. I might finished the next chapter in the next decade, who knows.
Warning: It's very much written with the tism.
Edit: The title is horrible, and I regretted naming it that by the third chapter.
Edit 2: Man there are a lot of grammatical errors I missed.
He tried to copyright some public domain stuff, in doing so he tried to make himself gatekeeper of the entire genre. He claims to be "the grandfather of American LitRPG." IDK why, Forgotten Realms books like Icewind Dale and The Dark Elf trilogy predate him by about thirty years. He has a large community over on Facebook and he bullies people who give him mediocre reviews, bullies other authors who call him out on his BS.
Whole threads have been written on this subreddit documenting him.
If you dislike it that much then donāt put yourself through reading it any further. Itās not worth the stress. Not to mention the fact that he hasnāt updated the series in 4 years, so you wonāt even find a conclusion to all that irritation once you catch up.
He had his moment, could have built something amazing and although I never felt the āhateā others seem to have towards him since I never kept up with his IRL exploits (I just wanted to read), I understand why people would. Especially after he tried to traidmark āLItrpgā. It still irritates me to all hell that some other author succeeded in trademarking āSystem Apocalypseā after all.
Wish I could actually comment on some of the plot points you pointed out, put itās honestly been so long since I read them that I wouldnāt reliably be able to discuss it. From what I remember though, he wasnāt the āGodfather of Litrpgā, but rather the self proclaimed Godfather of *American* Litrpg. He was the biggest Litrpg to come out of America at the time, when America wasnāt making much Litrpg at all, and nothing as big as what Russian/Eurasian authors in general were putting out.
Edit: grammer.
The last book in the series has like a chapter on the main character having diarrhea. It is half the size of the other books and comes off as a cash grab.
If I remember right, he also didnāt name himself that. He was on a podcast and someone called him that and he just ran with it as a marketing gimmick.
I hate the land aswell the mc just ruins the whole story hes a immature dick, who uses saying from our world even though he knows no one will understand him and he hates that even though hes a dick, the people of the land arnt allowed to be a dick towards him as he gets angry over it. The author created a amazing world with amazing side characters but ruins it all with the mc.
It's similar but with jason he weaves them into his sentences and also uses them to throw his enemies off where as in the land the mc uses them to his allies for example when they give him something or tell him some good news he blurts out some cringe nonsense. It just hits different.
The misogyny only gets worse. I dropped the series 4-5 books in. I agree completely. People have it ranked as A tier sometimes or even S tier in those ranking posts that are so popularā¦ I just shake my head. Glad some enjoy it, but itās not for me.
The author ISN'T the godfather of LitRPG. He's just famous for trying to claim to be the inventor of the genre in the western world. He isn't considering there were similar style books (but significantly less crunchy and no stat blocks type things because it was all print media), going back to the early 80s. I didn't HATE the land, but I didn't love it. I stopped the series after I learned what a piece of shit Aleron Kong really is. I'd rather my money (or prime money) go to authors I don't despise.
I thought this was the /WaltDisneyWorld sub based on your title and jumped in ready to defend that awesome vintage dark ride. But anyway thanks for the tip!
edit for spelling
I once read a LitRPG where the dungeon was able to manifest as a lich to speak with MC.
It was around the description of curly black hair and specific clothes I realize.. this mother fucker stuck Brooke from One Piece in his fanfiction and is making money from it?
LitRPG is fuckin' wild, you guys.
I've gotten to the point I hate references to real world stuff and even references to other books. The only time it makes sense is in an earth setting or it includes multiple people from earth. In my fantasy hack/slash books I don't need pop culture references.
Or worse. Politics. I just started Wandering Inn this month. To get to the second book and have to suffer chapters of talking American political discourse was just nauseating. We're in a fantasy world with zero connections to American presidential elections, yet the author was so upset in real life over it that they forced it into the story. Just... why?
I feel you're being slightly hyperbolic. It wasn't something that took up more than a few paragraphs from my recollection. It barely even registers as a vague memory and the only reason I remember it at all is because I thought it'd be slightly funny when a family member would get to that part.
It's exposing you as to who these characters are/were and help show why they may feel the way they do.
If I remember right Erin was a blue voter in US elections. Blue voters on average care more about the general welfare of all people (again, in general). That also helps to show she has had a past of wanting such values upheld and she is now living out those values via her demands of "no killing goblins" and treating them like people. That is something I would personally expect by the average person who votes blue in US elections.
People who vote blue are also on average more compassionate. What does Erin always do? She likes to find ways to help her friends,she takes in people who need a place to stay when they've turned away by everyone else (not sure if you've met a certain young lady and the white gnoll yet so I won't spoil anything).
It just gives more backstory that shows a past mindset.
If I were to write a LitRPG about the exploits of my friends and I roleplaying sessions, it would make sense. We are a band of time travelling super heroes. We reference stuff all the time in general, in a way that's funny to us. Especially if it makes no sense in the current roleply setting. Medival europe? You better believe someone makes a dumb 2000s joke.
That makes sense, characters that know the references are saying them to one another. In The Land that's not how they are used, they're inserted there for the sake of being there.
Don't you value your time? Why would you continue to listen or read a series you dislike?
I personally think this is probably a post to farm karma on a topic that is clearly divided in this community. If that is the case, grow up.
And if you genuinely posted about despising a series that you have invested over 135 hours of listening too then you may be one the oddest individuals I have ever heard about.
How did you make it that far? Your feelings on the series seems similar to mine, but stronger.
I hate not finishing a book series, but this is one of three that Iāve quit in the last 10 years. I didnāt make it to the end of book one and I was on here ranting. He has the mindset of a spoiled rich 80s-movie frat boy.
He isn't the godfather of litrpg. Gary Gygax, the co-father of Dungeons and dragons was writing what we would call litrpg back in the 80s with his Gord the Rogue novels, he gave classes and levels and stats for them in the novel.
Wow, an entire thread about the self proposed "Father of LitRPG", Aleron Kong, and no diarrhea jokes? Really? I am impressed r/LitRPG.
But I have to fix this.
Did you hear Aleron Kongs next book is going to be called Constipation? I do not think it will ever come out.
What did one Aleron Kong say to the other Aleron Kong? "Is this stool taken?"
I hear Aleron Kong has asked the community to stop with the diarrhea jokes. There a pain in his ass.
Why was Aleron Kong so angry after his last book? I am not really sure, but it could be because he keeps losing his shit.
It has been said that part of the reason Aleron Kong devoted more than a chapter to diarrhea is because he wanted people to learn how to spell "diarrhea" correctly. He was trying to prevent irregular vowel movements.
Aleron Kong has talked about the top ten facts of diarrhea. Number 2 surprised him.
Aleron Kong has said recently that going forward he will avoid diarrhea. I think that is a solid plan. He should avoid the incontinental breakfasts whenever possible.
According to Aleron Kong, what is the worst combination of illnesses? Alzheimer's and Diarrhea. Your running but cannot remember where.
Aleron Kong recently celebrated his birthday. I hear he was a party pooper.
Okay, I think that should do it! š
I usually give most things a good chance, but sometimes you just need to cut and run bro.
Just need to work out what you absolutely won't put up with, Sexism and misogyny are just plain deal breakers for me. If it becomes a theme, I don't care how good the rest of they story is, I'm going to drop it and not look back
Aleron Kong clearly wrote Richter as himself. He writes him as having the same build, the same appearance as him. If you think all of these things about Richter, maybe you feel that way about Aleron Kong.
Just like the rest of us. Aleron Kong is an asshole.
Like the books though.
I agree - the protagonist is a classic generic meathead. There shouldn't be too much more to say about Meathead, especially as a protagonist, in any type of story. He's consistent, which made the books stick together, but he has no arc, and there's not much tension to hold the long series together. I do appreciate that there wasn't any melodrama in the books. I don't think I could handle the Meathead trope mixed in with the "We're an Inseparable Band of Misunderstood Teenagers" trope.
I'm not sure why I picked up The Land originally--advertising, maybe, or a stray reddit thread--but it was my first litRPG series. I was completely floored by the pop culture references. I couldn't believe that a writer/editor team would allow the consistent breaches of our suspension of disbelief. There's a story logic, though. If I remember correctly, the protagonist is translated from our normal world into this system-organized Isekai fantasy world. If the narrator is aware of both worlds, then the use of pop culture references won't really break the wall between story and reality.
After reading other series in this subgenre, you'll notice reader-reality references in a lot of books. The better ones establish a device to explain how our real world connects to the Isekai world (system integration, teleportation between worlds, a narrator with an invested interest in our real world). But even with a good device, if the narrator's perspective doesn't match the use of the device, then the reading can be painful.
IMO, The Land is example of painful. Noobtown is a series that establishes both the device and perspective early on in the narrative, and, again just IMO, those references work. It still takes a while for the reader to adapt, and if you haven't read much litRPG/system stories, reading will be an uphill struggle.
I guess I just can't see those pop culture references doing anything but removing tension from a story, and lowering the stakes. If the narrator thinks the situation is low-stakes enough to make pop culture references from a different world, then the reader will agree.
I get the appeal, especially since it was one of the first. However, I barely hung on to listening to it. A lot of the reasons you mentioned, but how they handled the audiobooks was atrocious. All those annoying stats EVERY FIVE MINUTES set my teeth on edge. I was convinced it was used to pad the book for some reason.
Since this was mentioned in the comments, I didnāt drop it because it had some elements that could have been really good. I know thereās so much vying for peopleās attention these days, and some can be quick to drop something at the instant they see something they donāt like. Itās just the completionist in me to give things leeway.
It doesnāt always pay off, but when it does, itās amazing.
I donāt care about the other stuff about the author unless heās killing babies or burning down temples or something.
Honestly I think the stat sheets in The Land are more palatable then others. In He Who Fights w it h Mongsters it gets real rough. However the stat sheets are a critical and intregal part of LITRPG, they just translate poorly to audio.
Ah, this makes me glad I didn't start reading this series. It really breaks immersion for me when authors include "real-world" references when it clearly doesn't fit. Like LORGH with the character named Claptrap....
Haha, you know, it's a real bummer? I like the world building, there's some great imagery, and some of the plot ideas are pretty solid. Buuuuut unfortunately the author is _such_ a dick, and his characters really reflect that.
I'd abandon ship on the series, friend. It's not gonna get better.
Dude! You and I are TOTALLY on the same page in regards to The Landā¦ but I stopped in the middle of book 2 and havenāt thought about it sinceā¦letās it go babe. Let it go
HWFWM is just a self insert of a sad lonely author who wants to preach his agenda, instead of an author who wants to tell great stories and entertain. Absolute drivel.
I read the entire series of The Land because there wasn't a whole lot else to choose from (in LitRPG) at the time. Some of the books were ok but Monsters was terrible...
>The main character is immature, selfish and sexist. He never skips an opportunity to comment on a womans appearance in a sexual way or treat women as irrational.
This is one of my biggest gripes with the genre; that, and how most MCs are written with "snarky" dialogue, which just comes across as whiny & tantrum-laden ("baby back bitch"). A great number of these books feel like they're written by overgrown children who are voicing their pent-up aggression to demonstrate how 'manly' they \*really\* are...
I don't think he's gonna finish the series in any way.Ā There has been a huge gap in new books.Ā Ā
I mean it's litrpg.Ā It's the lowest form of wish fulfillment fantasy writing .Ā The land is about on par with any of it.Ā It's not the best, but it's not the worst.Ā Ā
Sounds to me like the author is a guy who failed out of med school and decided to write bad fantasy.Ā He's been pretty successful at that.Ā Ā
I've listened to all of them .Ā It's got something that makes you keep goingĀ
1. Wandering inn. This is the best thing I have read in 35 years. The author eventually gets so good it's insane. It has everything.
2. Dungeon Crawler Carl. Dark, funny, fantastic.
3. Everything else.
I never understood the hate that this author gets. If you don't like his books, then don't read it. Instead, folks always read ALL of them and then create a thread like this. He hasn't released a book in several years and his books are better than a majority of newer releases.
I enjoy his books.
I have to disagree on his books still being better than todays releases. I own the currently released books in this series and I attempted to go back and listen to them a second time and couldn't even get an hour in before putting it back down.
The references are extremely dated, the humor is far too crude, and there is nothing to make me give a single solitary fuck about any of the characters. What does the fox say? Need I say more? Those types of references are littered throughout the books and they aren't entertaining, funny, or witty, they are simply there. The humor revolves around what a teenage boy would find humorous which I just so happened to be around the age of when finding these books, as an older person I just find it far too childish and unfunny. Lastly I couldn't care less about a single character in the story, there was no attempt to make the reader develop an emotional connection with any character whatsoever. I wouldn't have cared if any side character died, not one, they are two dimensional characters that only exist to help the MC or provide context.
For my last point, SO MANY FUCKING DEAD ENDS. So many times there we things that were hinted at that the MC never bothered to follow up on or just forgot about. So many cool items, places, or ideas just left by the wayside. It just wasn't a good experience to be teased over and over and given no payoff.
0/10 would shit on again.
The characters being added in isn't subtle in hindsight, I has never watch parks and rec until after I read the books, but it's still a good serious the world building is top notch. I'd almost prefer a lore book about the land like 40k does.
HWFWM is slop, you donāt need to force yourself even if you finish it it isnāt going to be to your intellectual or literary benefit, itās just a bit of fun on your lunch break etc
DCC is a bit better but the same general ideas apply, itās junk food, itās meant to be an enjoyable bit of lighthearted brainrot not something to cause you grief
Iāll force myself through a boring chapter of an otherwise excellent history book for my own contextual benefit, that doesnāt apply to fiction where you canāt see a single redeeming factor and are just going through the motions like a game achievement 100% addict
He isnāt the godfather of anything, heās just one of the earlier KU/ audible series that got some attention, at the end of the day a huge amount of this genre is dodgy writers that normally would have been relegated to the hobby fan fiction sphere but new tech and avenues have allowed them to garner an audience, which is great in some cases and not ideal in others
Why continue with a series that you clearly dislike? Just drop the series and go on to something else
exactly, i can never understand this type of mindset, i understand hating something, but hating something and continuing it despite all that just makes no sense to me. i tried HWFWM myself and finished book 1, i didnt' really like it so i dropped it, it was as simple as that š
With this, probably because the book prior to Monsters was actually a pretty good one. I really enjoyed it, but it is unfortunately overshadowed by the "load of diarrhea" (inside joke if you read the book) that is 80% of the monsters book.
This is how I approached The Dungeon Slayer, by Konrad Ryan. Props to him for getting his work published and having some cool covers, but I hated every single thing about his first book. Characters, pacing, overly descriptive long action scenes, frontloaded exposition, whiniest MC ever, no character arc, I could go on.
Dude it gets so much worse. By the 4th/5th book it's mostly torture porn. Long drawn out mutilation, flayings, denerving, amputations, etc It really bothers me that it's listed as a children's book on Amazon.
Yeah I dropped HWFWM on the second book dude. Just felt like the author took every chance to bag on america he possibly could it got old fast for me.
Hey so im gunna try and make this metaphor work but I look at books like legos, and sometimes you find a book with several cool sets of legos all ready to be put together. But sometimes the author decides hey I'm gunna glue this piece onto something else or just leave a set completely. At the end of the day there might be some cool sets that have been built but the collection is ruined in some way. This can be annoying characters that show up every blue moon. Or a character can be irritating as fuck but what they are doing is very entertaining. Cool concept's could be explored that interest the reader. But usually when you get rants like this they just got fed up with the most annoying aspects and are ranting to find like minded people.
Or just view it as a simple math equation. "Am I going to be happier or angrier after reading this book?" If the answer is happier keep chugging along, if the answer isn't happier then just drop it already. Apply that same logic to most things in life and do what makes you happy (emphasis on MOST).
You say that it's easy to do that type of math. I've read far into books that I don't like because in some aspects I find it entertaining, on others I find it educational. Ive read series I've absolutely hated in hopes of characters finding happy endings. I have left series because the writing became lazy or predictable. Most entertainment is a gamble, I've read books I generally don't like or enjoy because the concept was interesting and I've never truly thought about it. One of my favorite series frustrates me all the time, but its faithful representation of concepts is encapsulating. I find it more annoying that people are mad at the response to a media rather than engaging with it
Not saying this is the case here, but I usually try to go at least some books in when a series has too many books
i see, that is actually something i have done before, especially with the dragon heart series, i kept going until the end of book 2 and around the middle parts of book 3, until i finally decided that i actualyl enjoyed the book. i kept reading until around book 11 im pretty sure or 12 and then i finally stopped. but the dragon heart series was the only one that i made an exception for, never tried that method agian on other books, probably missed out a lot but ehh
sunk cost fallacy
I finished a 4 book series I hated because I wanted to see 1 character's ending. Some ppl suffer a whole for 1 good part of that makes sense
You know you can skip to the end and find out right
Hahaha yeah. But then we have nothing to complain about lmao jk
I can't do that because Mama didn't raise no quitter. My KU borrow is maxed out with dog shit and I am slowly going through them and hating every minute of it. I must suffer so that the author can get honest feedback in my review later on.
Because I paid for all of them. I got recommendations and assumed Iād like it as much
You may want to look up the term āsunk cost fallacyā.
audible offers refunds...
They stop offering after you return 10+ books.
Just call them and refund via support
Not true, you can still ask via helpdesk chat, say you dislike the books and get your credits back.
Oh really. Let me try.
I use this feature rarely. If you can't do it via chat, you can do it via a call. Sometimes they slightly hassle you ("do you know how to check reviews"), but they let you do it At least, they have so far. Like I said, I only do it rarely
You can do it via chat, I do it about once a month. Just tell them thanks once they've gotten it taken care of and end the chat, they'll try and recommend some garbage for you to spend that credit on, just close it out after saying thanks.
It's pretty consistent if you don't abuse it but if you buy something with cash on sale you're pretty boned. They'll bend your over then.
Yay it worked. Thanks.
Facts! I didnāt like HWFWM so I stopped on the second book and never looked back. Your not gonna like everything thatās popular just put it down and read something else
I mean, this subreddit exists for discussion of things. Allow them to discuss their negative feelings and continue reading in hopes they like it more.
I thought The Land was downright amazing the first time I went through it. The world he built is honestly beautiful (as I remember it), albeit a bit clumsily presented at times. I couldn't ***stand*** it on a re-read. All the problems just threw themselves at me. Richter is an immature, selfish asshole. Everything falls into his lap. He meets all the right people and they all think he's charming instead of calling him out as the unprepared, uninformed, foolish person he is. I still think the general setting is great. And I think the series could be great with a handful of adjustments (Richter not being **so** annoying or growing out of it, working harder to gain people's trust and loyalty, working harder for his lucky breaks instead of them just happening). It has so much potential. But Aleron just made it too much of a fanfic-style self-insert.
Yeah the first few books are good in my opinion and make the world and system really great. I think it gets rough as time goes on but liked book 7, and then book 8 is garbage
"The good guys" takes what Richter did and makes it realistic for a noob to the entire planet suddenly finding themselves in power and building a town from scratch.
yeah the system to me is one of if not the best in the genre, it felt so deep yet intuitive - it was just ruined by a convenient story and horrible characters
He's the self-proclaimed "father of American litrpg." Emphasis on self. No one else recognizes the title as he was neither the first nor is he the best of American litrpg and specifying American because the genre was popular elsewhere first, but you want to take credit is pathetic. Afaik he's not super popular here, but there are some fans and a lot of people know of him as The Land was many people's first exposure to the genre, mine included.
Step-daddy *was* an early adopter. And in those early days he was decently written *AND* well advertised/publicized.
His books have aged poorly in that regard. Super niche jokes like "what does the fox say" and basing characters on popular TV series have an expiration date. I personally get the hate of authors who do dumb shit like try to own the rights to litrpg/apocalypse or whatever but the books aren't really worth the time to hate. You can just stop reading them. There's far too many good books to keep with a series you don't like.
This. I've dropped a few series, even when I was balls deep because I just couldn't do it anymore. The Land, The Ten Realms (which was frustrating because his Emerilla series is fantastic, but Ten Realms is just a slog after book 4), The World...
Agree completely on The World. It started interesting, especially with the side quest stuff. That is exactly how I am in many games. And then it became a slog and I quit somewhere in book 4 I think. Keeps popping up on my recommended series to complete.
Who rode The World? That's too generic of a name for google to give me anything lol.
Jason A. Cheek wrote The World series. Perhaps it wasn't a good marketing move to be so generic.
Probably not lol. Thanks.
I feel like that is more of a nod to live action RPG campaigns as I would do this all the time as a GM and the players would eat it up.Ā So I see it as a fun reference to that.Ā It was pretty fun for the campaigns but I could see how it doesn't work nearly as well in novel form.Ā Ā Still respect this work as my first exposure to litRPG and I look back on it fondly.Ā I'm not sure I would be into it today after the 200 or so I've read now though.
Yeah I think the problem is the pop culture references themselves are more meme references and not really pop culture. So like mayor of noobtown hasn't really aged poorly because for the most part it's basketball pug references and starwars references.
Anyone with that big of an ego is worth taking a massive shit on, it would also fit the content of his books since they contain chapters dedicated to diarrhea.
Lmao first Iām hearing of his so called title and Iāve read dozens of litrpg/progression stories. Glad it doesnāt seem to be a title anyone takes seriously. Like that time Tao Wong copyrighted āapocalypse systemā. Fuck that
Yeah, it's only a title when you read his books where he calls himself it.
i mean tao wong DOES have primary rights to system apocalypse so you SHOULD take them seriously in that regard so you dont get screwed over in court. thankfully Kong only recieved secondary rights to LitRPG so he cant enforce exclusivity, which he was clear he was going to. he plays up the whole āgenerously allowing people to use LitRPGā because most people dont understand the difference between a primary and a secondary right and dont know he has no legal grounds to enforce anything.
Well I wouldnāt recommend reading He who fights with monsters first. I agree
I started with Defiance of the Fall. Going to preachy, agenda filled HWFWM after was like someone spitting in my face, rather than someone who wanted to entertain with a great story. I don't know how anyone gets through it.
Hm, I can't recall which one was the first one I read/listened to; it may well have been HWFWM š and I'm waiting for the Audible release of the latest book š¤
Ten Realms Book One. It was free on Kindle for a limited time, and I loved it enough to subscribe to Kindle Unlimited. I devoured his Emerilla series before Ten Realms Book Two came out, and I've been reading LitRPG ever since. According to my KU history, I've read 921 books since 2018, with about 3/4ths being LitRPG (the rest being Space Opera).
Black ocean series if you like space opera. The entire series is available for like three credits on audible and theyāre like 100 hours each or something crazy like that.
I'll see if they're also on KU. I don't do audiobooks (I can't pay attention to them and get lost pretty quickly), but thanks for the recommendation!
I think shitting on the author is one of the top 5 favorite hobbies of this sub
I think shitting in the corner is one of the top 5 hobbies of his MC.
Oh yeah I've read like half a book but at some point there's a huge shit tangent right?
Book 8 a whole chapter describing how the poorly cooked food the MC cooked and then ate is tearing his asshole up and overly describes it. Somehow brings in a weird story back to Earth I think. I kid you not a whole chapter of it.
The thing about litrpg authors is that a lot of them get published through less than reputable companies, and thatās after theyāve written and released several books on online forums like royal road. Thatās partially why they read like bad fan fiction, because a lot of them are just that.
Can confirm, started a fan fiction based on *XCOM: Ufo Defense* (the 1995 game), It's pretty bad (likely because my brain is bad).
Unironically want something like this (not fan fiction). I love the way XCOM progresses, invaders that you have to research, learn all the weird things about them, their powers, their weaknesses, their technology and how to integrate it into your own weapons, etc., but I haven't found anything similar. XCOM does it really well, but I need a novel, not a couple paragraphs every couple missions!
If you want to read what I started and failed, it's *Humanity Screams* on royal road. I might finished the next chapter in the next decade, who knows. Warning: It's very much written with the tism. Edit: The title is horrible, and I regretted naming it that by the third chapter. Edit 2: Man there are a lot of grammatical errors I missed.
You can tell the difference between an author and someone who watched Sword Art and went "omg that!" hahaha
This author has done the research on the process of shitting.
Bahahaha
The blatant sexism of the main character (and author) is rly annoying
Wait until you hear about the drama surrounding the author.
I read some. Heās crazy
what happened?
He tried to copyright some public domain stuff, in doing so he tried to make himself gatekeeper of the entire genre. He claims to be "the grandfather of American LitRPG." IDK why, Forgotten Realms books like Icewind Dale and The Dark Elf trilogy predate him by about thirty years. He has a large community over on Facebook and he bullies people who give him mediocre reviews, bullies other authors who call him out on his BS. Whole threads have been written on this subreddit documenting him.
Don't forget about *Quag Keep* predating him by almost 40.
Can confirm, I own a first edition from 1979.
If you dislike it that much then donāt put yourself through reading it any further. Itās not worth the stress. Not to mention the fact that he hasnāt updated the series in 4 years, so you wonāt even find a conclusion to all that irritation once you catch up. He had his moment, could have built something amazing and although I never felt the āhateā others seem to have towards him since I never kept up with his IRL exploits (I just wanted to read), I understand why people would. Especially after he tried to traidmark āLItrpgā. It still irritates me to all hell that some other author succeeded in trademarking āSystem Apocalypseā after all. Wish I could actually comment on some of the plot points you pointed out, put itās honestly been so long since I read them that I wouldnāt reliably be able to discuss it. From what I remember though, he wasnāt the āGodfather of Litrpgā, but rather the self proclaimed Godfather of *American* Litrpg. He was the biggest Litrpg to come out of America at the time, when America wasnāt making much Litrpg at all, and nothing as big as what Russian/Eurasian authors in general were putting out. Edit: grammer.
The last book in the series has like a chapter on the main character having diarrhea. It is half the size of the other books and comes off as a cash grab.
>Edit: grammer "Grammar" /s
>"Grammar" Gamora Oh wait wrong sub
Happy Cake Day!!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I will not stand for this slander against Big Trouble. That movie is a timeless national treasure!
Blasphemy! Big Trouble in Little China is as awesome today as it was in the 80s.
You're going to the hell of being skinned alive!
You leave Jack Burton ALONE!Ā We are in his debt.Ā He showed GREAT courage!
Yup, hate to jump on the bandwagon but you're opinion on Big Trouble in Little China is in a distinct minority.
If I remember right, he also didnāt name himself that. He was on a podcast and someone called him that and he just ran with it as a marketing gimmick.
I hate the land aswell the mc just ruins the whole story hes a immature dick, who uses saying from our world even though he knows no one will understand him and he hates that even though hes a dick, the people of the land arnt allowed to be a dick towards him as he gets angry over it. The author created a amazing world with amazing side characters but ruins it all with the mc.
For a moment, i thought you were talking about he who fights with monsters.
It's similar but with jason he weaves them into his sentences and also uses them to throw his enemies off where as in the land the mc uses them to his allies for example when they give him something or tell him some good news he blurts out some cringe nonsense. It just hits different.
I agree. Anyways, don't mind me, i have a love hate relationship with hwfwm.
> hes a immature dick, who uses saying from our world even though he knows no one will understand him ...
...
The misogyny only gets worse. I dropped the series 4-5 books in. I agree completely. People have it ranked as A tier sometimes or even S tier in those ranking posts that are so popularā¦ I just shake my head. Glad some enjoy it, but itās not for me.
I think for me, the land was the first lit RPG I read, and it got me hooked on the genre, but since reading others, itās clearly not very good
The author ISN'T the godfather of LitRPG. He's just famous for trying to claim to be the inventor of the genre in the western world. He isn't considering there were similar style books (but significantly less crunchy and no stat blocks type things because it was all print media), going back to the early 80s. I didn't HATE the land, but I didn't love it. I stopped the series after I learned what a piece of shit Aleron Kong really is. I'd rather my money (or prime money) go to authors I don't despise.
In fact, most online reference sources (like wikipedia), don't even MENTION Aleron Kong. His influence is that little.
Me when I am a fish.
I thought this was the /WaltDisneyWorld sub based on your title and jumped in ready to defend that awesome vintage dark ride. But anyway thanks for the tip! edit for spelling
I once read a LitRPG where the dungeon was able to manifest as a lich to speak with MC. It was around the description of curly black hair and specific clothes I realize.. this mother fucker stuck Brooke from One Piece in his fanfiction and is making money from it? LitRPG is fuckin' wild, you guys.
I've gotten to the point I hate references to real world stuff and even references to other books. The only time it makes sense is in an earth setting or it includes multiple people from earth. In my fantasy hack/slash books I don't need pop culture references.
Or worse. Politics. I just started Wandering Inn this month. To get to the second book and have to suffer chapters of talking American political discourse was just nauseating. We're in a fantasy world with zero connections to American presidential elections, yet the author was so upset in real life over it that they forced it into the story. Just... why?
I feel you're being slightly hyperbolic. It wasn't something that took up more than a few paragraphs from my recollection. It barely even registers as a vague memory and the only reason I remember it at all is because I thought it'd be slightly funny when a family member would get to that part. It's exposing you as to who these characters are/were and help show why they may feel the way they do. If I remember right Erin was a blue voter in US elections. Blue voters on average care more about the general welfare of all people (again, in general). That also helps to show she has had a past of wanting such values upheld and she is now living out those values via her demands of "no killing goblins" and treating them like people. That is something I would personally expect by the average person who votes blue in US elections. People who vote blue are also on average more compassionate. What does Erin always do? She likes to find ways to help her friends,she takes in people who need a place to stay when they've turned away by everyone else (not sure if you've met a certain young lady and the white gnoll yet so I won't spoil anything). It just gives more backstory that shows a past mindset.
If I were to write a LitRPG about the exploits of my friends and I roleplaying sessions, it would make sense. We are a band of time travelling super heroes. We reference stuff all the time in general, in a way that's funny to us. Especially if it makes no sense in the current roleply setting. Medival europe? You better believe someone makes a dumb 2000s joke.
That makes sense, characters that know the references are saying them to one another. In The Land that's not how they are used, they're inserted there for the sake of being there.
Oh. So the author is making references, not the characters, to the audience? I dun like it. haha
It's both, and both are done crudely quite often.
Don't you value your time? Why would you continue to listen or read a series you dislike? I personally think this is probably a post to farm karma on a topic that is clearly divided in this community. If that is the case, grow up. And if you genuinely posted about despising a series that you have invested over 135 hours of listening too then you may be one the oddest individuals I have ever heard about.
How did you make it that far? Your feelings on the series seems similar to mine, but stronger. I hate not finishing a book series, but this is one of three that Iāve quit in the last 10 years. I didnāt make it to the end of book one and I was on here ranting. He has the mindset of a spoiled rich 80s-movie frat boy.
My man it only gets worse.
He isn't the godfather of litrpg. Gary Gygax, the co-father of Dungeons and dragons was writing what we would call litrpg back in the 80s with his Gord the Rogue novels, he gave classes and levels and stats for them in the novel.
Wow, an entire thread about the self proposed "Father of LitRPG", Aleron Kong, and no diarrhea jokes? Really? I am impressed r/LitRPG. But I have to fix this. Did you hear Aleron Kongs next book is going to be called Constipation? I do not think it will ever come out. What did one Aleron Kong say to the other Aleron Kong? "Is this stool taken?" I hear Aleron Kong has asked the community to stop with the diarrhea jokes. There a pain in his ass. Why was Aleron Kong so angry after his last book? I am not really sure, but it could be because he keeps losing his shit. It has been said that part of the reason Aleron Kong devoted more than a chapter to diarrhea is because he wanted people to learn how to spell "diarrhea" correctly. He was trying to prevent irregular vowel movements. Aleron Kong has talked about the top ten facts of diarrhea. Number 2 surprised him. Aleron Kong has said recently that going forward he will avoid diarrhea. I think that is a solid plan. He should avoid the incontinental breakfasts whenever possible. According to Aleron Kong, what is the worst combination of illnesses? Alzheimer's and Diarrhea. Your running but cannot remember where. Aleron Kong recently celebrated his birthday. I hear he was a party pooper. Okay, I think that should do it! š
I like the way he does stats and item / weapon descriptions.
Why are you even still reading it? Sounds like you have a masochistic streakā¦š
I usually give most things a good chance, but sometimes you just need to cut and run bro. Just need to work out what you absolutely won't put up with, Sexism and misogyny are just plain deal breakers for me. If it becomes a theme, I don't care how good the rest of they story is, I'm going to drop it and not look back
Aleron Kong clearly wrote Richter as himself. He writes him as having the same build, the same appearance as him. If you think all of these things about Richter, maybe you feel that way about Aleron Kong. Just like the rest of us. Aleron Kong is an asshole. Like the books though.
Yeah, I'm working on writing a LitRPG myself, and I'm trying to avoid the various pitfalls of LitRPGs. Sounds like he hit a whole bunch.
All of them
Well, he is father of LitRPG pitfalls.
This is a title I would be OK with him giving himself
Dude it only gets worse.
GNOMES RULE!
No one likes fucking gnomes! Not even Boxxy.
I agree - the protagonist is a classic generic meathead. There shouldn't be too much more to say about Meathead, especially as a protagonist, in any type of story. He's consistent, which made the books stick together, but he has no arc, and there's not much tension to hold the long series together. I do appreciate that there wasn't any melodrama in the books. I don't think I could handle the Meathead trope mixed in with the "We're an Inseparable Band of Misunderstood Teenagers" trope. I'm not sure why I picked up The Land originally--advertising, maybe, or a stray reddit thread--but it was my first litRPG series. I was completely floored by the pop culture references. I couldn't believe that a writer/editor team would allow the consistent breaches of our suspension of disbelief. There's a story logic, though. If I remember correctly, the protagonist is translated from our normal world into this system-organized Isekai fantasy world. If the narrator is aware of both worlds, then the use of pop culture references won't really break the wall between story and reality. After reading other series in this subgenre, you'll notice reader-reality references in a lot of books. The better ones establish a device to explain how our real world connects to the Isekai world (system integration, teleportation between worlds, a narrator with an invested interest in our real world). But even with a good device, if the narrator's perspective doesn't match the use of the device, then the reading can be painful. IMO, The Land is example of painful. Noobtown is a series that establishes both the device and perspective early on in the narrative, and, again just IMO, those references work. It still takes a while for the reader to adapt, and if you haven't read much litRPG/system stories, reading will be an uphill struggle. I guess I just can't see those pop culture references doing anything but removing tension from a story, and lowering the stakes. If the narrator thinks the situation is low-stakes enough to make pop culture references from a different world, then the reader will agree.
I get the appeal, especially since it was one of the first. However, I barely hung on to listening to it. A lot of the reasons you mentioned, but how they handled the audiobooks was atrocious. All those annoying stats EVERY FIVE MINUTES set my teeth on edge. I was convinced it was used to pad the book for some reason. Since this was mentioned in the comments, I didnāt drop it because it had some elements that could have been really good. I know thereās so much vying for peopleās attention these days, and some can be quick to drop something at the instant they see something they donāt like. Itās just the completionist in me to give things leeway. It doesnāt always pay off, but when it does, itās amazing. I donāt care about the other stuff about the author unless heās killing babies or burning down temples or something.
Honestly I think the stat sheets in The Land are more palatable then others. In He Who Fights w it h Mongsters it gets real rough. However the stat sheets are a critical and intregal part of LITRPG, they just translate poorly to audio.
There have been Litrpg since the 80s he wasnāt one of the first
doesn't really sound like killing babies or burning down temples though
They were correcting a statement, don't be pedantic
being meta pendatic doesn't really look good though :P
Ah, this makes me glad I didn't start reading this series. It really breaks immersion for me when authors include "real-world" references when it clearly doesn't fit. Like LORGH with the character named Claptrap....
Book 9 coming soon, good luck.
I'll believe that when I see the book.
Another book to shit on sounds great, the others are getting piled quite high.
I mostly liked the magical architecture. Aside from one objectionable scene in the last book that's what I most remember from it.
Haha, you know, it's a real bummer? I like the world building, there's some great imagery, and some of the plot ideas are pretty solid. Buuuuut unfortunately the author is _such_ a dick, and his characters really reflect that. I'd abandon ship on the series, friend. It's not gonna get better.
Dude! You and I are TOTALLY on the same page in regards to The Landā¦ but I stopped in the middle of book 2 and havenāt thought about it sinceā¦letās it go babe. Let it go
Thought this was a Beware of Chicken attack on Golden Girl, meanie
I basically abandoned the story after a few chapters.
HWFWM is just a self insert of a sad lonely author who wants to preach his agenda, instead of an author who wants to tell great stories and entertain. Absolute drivel.
Itās been four years since he released a book. Does anyone know why?
I read the entire series of The Land because there wasn't a whole lot else to choose from (in LitRPG) at the time. Some of the books were ok but Monsters was terrible... >The main character is immature, selfish and sexist. He never skips an opportunity to comment on a womans appearance in a sexual way or treat women as irrational. This is one of my biggest gripes with the genre; that, and how most MCs are written with "snarky" dialogue, which just comes across as whiny & tantrum-laden ("baby back bitch"). A great number of these books feel like they're written by overgrown children who are voicing their pent-up aggression to demonstrate how 'manly' they \*really\* are...
He's the godfather. In that no one knows what he is doing, why he is at the event, or when he's going to pop back up.
The Land was a much better read if you were into the genre when it was much newer like 5-6 years ago
I don't think he's gonna finish the series in any way.Ā There has been a huge gap in new books.Ā Ā I mean it's litrpg.Ā It's the lowest form of wish fulfillment fantasy writing .Ā The land is about on par with any of it.Ā It's not the best, but it's not the worst.Ā Ā Sounds to me like the author is a guy who failed out of med school and decided to write bad fantasy.Ā He's been pretty successful at that.Ā Ā I've listened to all of them .Ā It's got something that makes you keep goingĀ
1. Wandering inn. This is the best thing I have read in 35 years. The author eventually gets so good it's insane. It has everything. 2. Dungeon Crawler Carl. Dark, funny, fantastic. 3. Everything else.
Idk man. I enjoy them and I didnāt enjoy hwfwm. Iām not a super fan or anything. Like all media itās just personal taste
I never understood the hate that this author gets. If you don't like his books, then don't read it. Instead, folks always read ALL of them and then create a thread like this. He hasn't released a book in several years and his books are better than a majority of newer releases. I enjoy his books.
I have to disagree on his books still being better than todays releases. I own the currently released books in this series and I attempted to go back and listen to them a second time and couldn't even get an hour in before putting it back down. The references are extremely dated, the humor is far too crude, and there is nothing to make me give a single solitary fuck about any of the characters. What does the fox say? Need I say more? Those types of references are littered throughout the books and they aren't entertaining, funny, or witty, they are simply there. The humor revolves around what a teenage boy would find humorous which I just so happened to be around the age of when finding these books, as an older person I just find it far too childish and unfunny. Lastly I couldn't care less about a single character in the story, there was no attempt to make the reader develop an emotional connection with any character whatsoever. I wouldn't have cared if any side character died, not one, they are two dimensional characters that only exist to help the MC or provide context. For my last point, SO MANY FUCKING DEAD ENDS. So many times there we things that were hinted at that the MC never bothered to follow up on or just forgot about. So many cool items, places, or ideas just left by the wayside. It just wasn't a good experience to be teased over and over and given no payoff. 0/10 would shit on again.
I know this isn't the reason, but that poop chapter in the book really made it clear he didn't care for his fans.
True that!
The characters being added in isn't subtle in hindsight, I has never watch parks and rec until after I read the books, but it's still a good serious the world building is top notch. I'd almost prefer a lore book about the land like 40k does.
He did something right if you read 8 of his books. Stop crying and just pick a different book. Gnomes Rule!
I couldn't get into it. My favorite litrpg with pop culture will always be Noobtown. That was ART.
HWFWM is slop, you donāt need to force yourself even if you finish it it isnāt going to be to your intellectual or literary benefit, itās just a bit of fun on your lunch break etc DCC is a bit better but the same general ideas apply, itās junk food, itās meant to be an enjoyable bit of lighthearted brainrot not something to cause you grief Iāll force myself through a boring chapter of an otherwise excellent history book for my own contextual benefit, that doesnāt apply to fiction where you canāt see a single redeeming factor and are just going through the motions like a game achievement 100% addict He isnāt the godfather of anything, heās just one of the earlier KU/ audible series that got some attention, at the end of the day a huge amount of this genre is dodgy writers that normally would have been relegated to the hobby fan fiction sphere but new tech and avenues have allowed them to garner an audience, which is great in some cases and not ideal in others
Is it a day that ends in āyā? Itās time for another needless bashing of Kong.
You read all the way to book 8? That aināt nothing to sneeze at!
Why would you read so many of his books of you hate it? Are you dumb?
Donāt even need to read this. You reached book 8 didnāt you?