Don't feel like you have to carry the entire responsibility for a successful show on your own. The bands will have to accept that there will be a basic mix of vocals in the wedges and any special needs will be catered for as much as possible.
One sound-person doing foh and monitors alone will obviously be flat out getting everyone happy. Let the bands know that you'll do your best but they will just have to accept what's there. Good luck mate.
I do this a lot. Best way I’ve found is give everyone their own vocal in their wedge at a decent volume.
Then give them all each other’s vocal but at about -10db from their own. Put the guitars in moderately in the drummer’s wedge and some kick.
If their are any keys tracks or acoustic instruments put them in everything.
That should be a good start for most bands.
If you get a chance to send a message to the bands you can ask for stage plots and ask everyone if there’s anything they DON’T want in their mix and then you just have to turn off a couple things and maybe push a vocal or guitar up here and there.
Oh I forgot the most important part. This may seem obvious if you’ve done this before. But put a vocal at every monitor location even if it isn’t called for just in case so you don’t have to shoehorn in channels on the fly and don’t let the band move them from their monitor positions. Vocal 1 in front of Wedge 1, V2 in front of W2 etc. If they don’t want it just pull the stand but make sure it goes back where it’s supposed to be so you don’t get messed up when you’re looking at the stage.
If they can’t handle that you may want to kill your self but it happens. One solution is to put some different colors of tape on your mic cables XLR ends so you can see it from stage if they get moved. I never put them on the mic unless it’s wireless since they can get disconnected and switched around if the band is connecting their own mics. That bulk pack of neon spike tape works good for this as long as the lighting is somewhat natural.
Yeah I’ll definitely be spiking a lot of the mic placements and amps, with 8 bands it’s gonna be a lot of moving around and stuff will end up all over the stage!! I’ll definitely be firm in that regard with mic placements!! Fingers crossed they listen and I can live to mix another show🙌
The biggest problem with these things is the efficiency of the bands. I’m guessing you’re stage manager too. If you’re organized, you will not be the bottleneck. Plan where they get off stage and how they get on. Anything they need to set up needs to get unpacked before change over, etc. They need to know not to Dick around after they play. “Good show! GO!”
You’ll also find there’s a few bands where someone only wants themselves vocally and doesn’t want the rest of the band to know or nobody wants a specific person but won’t want them to know. So that’s why I always try to ask people individually quickly if I get a chance while they load in.
The odds are pretty high that they’ll all want roughly the same thing in wedges. I hope for your sake it’s hardcore bands, they’re always the nicest and most understanding. They’re also the easiest to “get going”.
In most cases, we find that we’re sitting in our hands by the second band in at both monitors and FOH. Your jobs harder since you’re doing both, but I bet if you get that first band dialed in, it’s smooth sailing.
Also, I did a two day variety style show a few weeks ago. Monitors weren’t great after day 1, AND we had a monitor guy with an impossible mission to make 60 people happy. Day 2 we came in early, I played the instruments myself and we setup a monitor mix that was truely what they needed. Turns out I knew better than the musicians what was needed onstage. Day 2 we got nothing but compliments on the stage sound.
So… trust your instincts and your ears on what’s really needed in monitors, and once it’s dialed in reasonably that’s the end game. You shouldn’t do much work past band 3.
Small personal anecdote. I once mixed a hardcore band in a small club and ALL of their gear was cranked. The singer came offstage and told me that he couldn't get over how good the venue sounded and they were excited for everyone to show up.
I got there about 10 minutes ago and hadn't even turned on the amps to the PA lol. They're really a sweet bunch.
Hardcore bands are always the sweetest. The music is not my thing at all, quite the opposite, but I know I’m going to make a few friends on those nights.
Those nights always look the hardest on paper, and then they turn out to be super easy.
I was thinking the same, unfortunately there’s no metal bands on tonight, it’s more alt rock / punk.
By the sounds of things if I get the first hand really dialled in I shouldn’t have to do too much messing about for the rest of the night! Hopefully after the first night I should be fairly confident on my ability to get the mons sounding good!
Appreciate your help mate, some great tips and advice!!
Alt rock is more of a toss up, but the punk bands should give you the same sort of vibe as the hardcore bands. The scene is so DIY that they can make do without any monitors whatsoever, and they’re thrilled to even have the faintest glimmer of a vocal in their monitor.
I mixed Flipper a few months ago in a venue that’s top notch all the way around, I killed it, monitor guy killed it, and we (band and crew) all laughed at the end of the night because punk rock probably shouldn’t come across that well haha.
Yep. Set a baseline mix and tweak it if they need it. I've done a couple similar shows to this and that's what I did.
I had 3 wedges up front and one for the drummer. Lead vocals in all wedges, any other mics put some in but not quite as loud. No guitar or bass in the front wedges but give the drummer some. Some drummers want some of their kick in the wedge so they can hear it better. If there are any keys/acoustic instruments or amp modelers with no stage cabs distribute signal accordingly.
Also, I'm a big fan of the "silent soundcheck" - that being check your inputs watching the meters so you know about where they're at while letting background music come through the house.
Nothing going to be perfect - it just has to be good enough.
1. Let the band plugin.
2. Do a line & gain check.
3. Then while on stage with a tablet or laptop with m-edit installed ask everyone what they want to hear. run trough a small section of a song, stop, make any changes they request and then go back to FOH when they are happy/content.
4. when the next band comes up go to step 1.
For the most part they will all want the same thing and using the mix from each previous bad as a start point should reduce the swap over time. Just remember you can make something louder in monitors by turning 1 thing up or everything else down.
If you have to patch in an IEM rig just drop the masters for the monitors to negative infinity to reduce the SPL on stage and reduce the volume needed in the IEM's to get over the stage noise. The IEM rig should be self contained and they should be able to mix there own IEM's. If they just have a head set and you are not providing any wireless/wired packs well then they probably just get a wedge and have to deal with it.
Well said, nothing will be perfect but I’ll give it my best shot. Thanks for the advice, really appreciate it! Hopefully there won’t be any awkward bands.
Set vocals in the wedges before soundcheck and find out your maximum send level that you cannot exceed.
During the show, check mixes in your headphones to check the balance.
This is a throw and go situation. Vocals in the monitors and you’re up and running. It’s fortunate that you are keeping all backline- that’ll leave you just a minute or two at each changeover for minor adjustments. Use your authority as the sound person (because I doubt they’re going to have a stage manager at this scale) and tell the bands realistically what they can expect/ask for with this short of a slot. “Hey guys were running on a really tight schedule here. I’ve got all the vocals in the wedges and we can make one or two little tweaks but we only have x minutes until you play, so just tell me the most important stuff.”
Guitar bands?
For Mon from FOH, especially in a small room, please forget the “faders on unity” madness. With amps blasting from stage you end up haveing trouble making anything sound nice on stage quickly.
First, all vocals on all the monitors before the first band gets in. Get to know the levels. Turn down a few dB for the first sound check (always leave the mics open).
If the monitors are good enough, bit of kick for the drummer (with the size of the room, try to avoid putting snare or hat on anything)
Guitars: bit of both for the drummer and cross them for the guitarist. Try to keep the singers monitor clear from everything but vocals.
If you gain to, let’s say -20 (on a M32) you will see that the FOH faders will be all over the place but the monitor faders will all be quite level with each other. Now you know, of a keyboard player drags his set on stage, and you gained it correctly, how much you have to shove that fader up ;-).
Quick tips:
Put everything (but the DJ, background music) on a DCA. This way, you van either mute everything at once or turn FOH off when you do a line-monitor check.
As for communication with the band, make clear that you want hem to have good stage sound but you can’t hear what they are hearing from the back of the room so.. communication is key. Tell them that you don’t know that the other guys name is Jo or who plays lead guitar. Or if you point to him that is vocals or instrument.
Ask them (can be with FOH off) to play a small part of a chorus or something to check monitors. Ask them if it’s ok. If you get nods, it’s their fault :P
At the end of the first song, walk to the stage so that they can see you, ask for thumbs up and let’s rock!!
(Oh and when you have an iPad, turn off FOH and just get on stage, listen what they hear)
Good luck!
Oh.. with eight bands, don’t forget to walk out of the room when it’s all set the second song. Just for a minute or even half. Get back in and you hear your mix a lot better.
Yep, all 8 bands have atleast one guitar player for sure!
I see what your saying with faders on unity, it’s a very small and reflective room, I always find myself competing with heavy handed drummers who love to ruin my mixes with their dry cymbals!
Some great advice mate, I never thought of having to leave for a couple minutes to let me ears rest, I’m sure by the 4/5th band my ears are going to be quite fatigued so I’m gonna try my best to prolong this from happening as much as possible.
Really appreciate your help, I’ll post an update tomorrow to let you know how the gig went!
Great advice here. I’ll add one thing and share one thing.
-earplugs by the 2nd tune for each band. Better yet you’re trusting yourself by the third or fourth band and they stay in for all but a few seconds. I’m going to earplugs as soon as humanly possible, sometimes at the top of the show with the right metering equipment (that I can effectively read, know and trust of course).
-there’s a band that I’ve been mixing now for 20 years, just did a reunion show a few months ago. I’ve been to their weddings, we’re very close. The second they step on stage they are no longer called by their given names, they get called “stage right guitar” and “center vocal” even though I’ve known them for two decades.
As a base, ring out your monitors with the vocal mics and then keep only those mics in the respective wedges. As you do your line check ask the band if they want any of that channel in their wedge. Then after the line check tell the band that they can ask for monitor mix changes in between songs by pointing at the instrument they want then an up or down had gesture.
Thanks for your help mate, ringing out the mons is my first protocol for sure. I just wanted to limit the amount of hand gestures from the stage as much as possible but I’m sure that I’ll have to deal with it as the night progresses! Thanks for your advice appreciate it!
All of the advice here is good, only thing i’d add is REALLY stay on top of gain staging and make sure you set your gains right when you line check everything. This way your basic mix can stay pretty much the same.
Make sure you have a talkback microphone for yourself and a wedge so you can route the stage vocals to your wedge during soundcheck.. nothing more annoying than trying to shout at each other from the stage
For sure, there’ll be a talk back fed to all the wedges on stage and vice versa ! I’ve been caught out before earlier on in my career and I’ve never made that mistake twice!! Appreciate your help!
Sure sure.. other than that, I’d double as many channels as possible (all the vox at least) to have dedicated MON channels separate from FOH.. oh and make sure you’re an absolute ninja on the console because you’re gonna need to be fast 😆😅
Yep I usual run split vocal lines for mons and FOH so all good in that regard! Hahaha a ninja maybe not so much but I’m pretty confident in my abilities to get shit done fast!😂
It would be helpful but every room I’ve ever done monitors from FOH in there’s either no room at FOH for a cue wedge or there’s not enough wedges/amp channels/speaker cable to get one out there
Yeah been in that situation many times unfortunately haha! Probably worth carrying something like this with you then
https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0957
Headphones are your friend for getting monitors mixes alright and being able to fine tune inputs and vocals while the whole band is playing.
Label vocal microphones by both colour and number if there's a chance they're gonna move about on stage without you full control so you can always see where they are and adapt monitor mixes appropriately.
Make sure to talk with the organizers beforehand about getting appropriate breaks!
Got my cans and my trusty sharpie at the ready and bunch of tape👌
For sure will definitely need a break at some stage, whether that happens or not is another story!
Assign the custom buttons on the M32R for send on fader.
Mix 1 on button 1 and so forth.
Makes monitor mixing a lot easier, and if you can keep your channel count down to 16 you will save yourself a lot of jumping around.
You’re welcome. Did you know that if you push “ch1-8” and “ch9-16” at the same time you can have those across both fader banks?
Same for any 2 fader select bank buttons I think
Make a default monitor scene with a basic monitor mix. Keep levels moderately low. In a place where they can just hear it when they walk up. They're always going to ask for it louder so working up to their level is always easier.
Lead Vocal & Guitars in every wedge. Kick n Snare in Bass and Drum wedge.
After the first band, make sure you safe the drum channels and whatever else you want to keep EQ/Processing for. Then, load just your default monitor mix so it's a clean slate. Or just flip faders and manually set it back.
Don't let them rush you. Take charge.
Leave all vocals in all monitors. Leave it set from the previous hand. During the bands, make sure you go find the next band and have a conversation with them about the amount of time you have for changeover, that you're going to mic everything up and to keep things on time you're gonna have them start right away, and that you want them to use hand signals throughout the show if they need any changes.
The bands will probably have all played similar types of shows and will be used to it.
What I suggest is that you do a house patch, that stays the same from band to band. For example:
1. Kick
2. Snare
3. Hihat
4. Tom
5. Tom
6. Tom
7. OH L
8. OH R
9. Bass DI
10. Bass Mic
11. GTR L
12. GTR R
13. Keys DI 1
14. Keys DI 2
15. Keys DI 3
16. Keys DI 4
17. Voc 1
18. Voc 2
19. Voc 3
20. Voc 4
21. Voc 5
22. to 32. free
Not sure what they are called in M32, but use Groups/DCA’s like this:
1. Drums
2. Bass
3. Guitars
4. Keys
5. Vocals
6. Free 1
7. Free 2
8. FX
Use the free channels to whatever curveball saxophone etc comes. Keep monitors to minimum. The less there is volume on stage, cleaner the mix out. I’d start with vocals and DI instruments to whomever is playing it, lead vocals to everyone. Other instruments only if they specifically ask for something. If the stage is wide, consider sending the guitar on the left side to the monitor on right side.
Also: super dick move from the promoter to book 8 bands if you are handling the sound just by yourself.
Throw and go baby!
Basically what I do is make sure all the vocals are up in each mix throw in kick & snare, then just do the rest on the fly.
8 bands alone is far too much for everyone to get their own full mix.
Some people don't like this but I've been in a similar situation and I just asked musicians to connect to my wifi and mix their own monitors. Less than ideal but it can work in a pinch
All the bands will probably want to hear similar things.
If the guitar player gets their own wedge keep the level of them high so they are less likely to make the audience deaf and my job harder.
Vocal everywhere i usually have the vocal in the singers wedge very high but still stable and start with 15 db lower than the singers segment in every other wedge and go from there.
Drums usually aren’t to fussy so bit of kick and bass guitar to start off, sometimes vocal as well.
Keys and singers are top priority if your short on wedges.
I Always do monitors last on the soundcheck and do them quickly, if you do them first it ends up a mess and the band don’t have a chance to get a natural balance.
Keep guitar levels quiet if possible.
I personally hate 15 min change over for 30 min slots feels far to long.
M32R? There’s an iPad app for that, right? If so, it might be a good idea to be on-stage with the band during the changeover so you can hear exactly what they’re hearing in the wedges. Otherwise, I think others have already posted all the advice I’d give.
Good luck! Let us know how the show goes.
Lots of good info here. Not sure these were said already:
1. Get in early to ring out mics, especially vocals.
2. Bring snacks
3. Monitors don’t have to be perfect off the bat. I always say “my name is blah blah blah, let me know what you need along the way and I’ll give you a 5 min heads up at 25”. If they’re needy and taking their time, don’t be hesitant to say we need to start but don’t hesitate to communicate with me
4. If people want to use their own mics, cool. But if I rang things out according to my house mics then they’re potentially asking for trouble which can potentially come down to wedge positioning and how much air they’re pushing as singers.
5. This is your house you’re wearing all the hats. 98% of the time people are respectful and understand what “festival style” is… but sometimes they have to be reminded that this isn’t their show
6. Find a good and consistent sequence for line checking monitors. I normally have to give directions to bands, like “raise your finger if you want this in your monitor and drop your hand when you’re good”
My quick monitor mix for this type of festival, is to put all of the vocals the same level in all the mixes and nothing else with the exception of Di instruments at the start of each band, and just let them tell me what they need as we get going. I normally use my talk back to ask whom ever looks ready while they are tuning if their vocal is good. Keep the mixes basic and also your questions, If you ask who wants this in their monitor most likely everyone will say me.
Get the 1st band right.
In each change-over, ask the band if they need 'anything whacky' in the monitors. Tell each band there will be a quick line check and to let you know any changed in mons
Then line check them (each successive band), instrument by instrument, 10sec tops.
After drums I just say "bass please", get my gain...'everyone good for bass?" spend 5sec making any adjustment...." cool, guitar to my left.....cool....all good?"....5-10 sec each one.
It sounds hectic, but most of it will be fairly similar, once you have the gains right.
If anyone wants a crazy amount of, for example guitar, or none at all.....make a note of that, so you can put it back to the 'normal' level you started with when their set is finished
Good luck.
Trial by fire.
Communication is key, tell them 'hey guys, we have a super quick change-over, sorry if I rush through it, but I don't want you to need to cut any songs.....lets do it.....have a great set"
Let them know you are on their side, but it is a bit rushed for all of you, and together you can make it the best it can be
I’ve done many of these, lots of great advice here. Definitely ring out your wedges for vocals, get them as ludicrous loud as you can before the bands show up, and then back it down to a reasonable level as a good starting point, knowing the headroom you can push from there. It sounds like a pretty small room, I’d suggest keeping the wedges for vocals and DI inputs as much as you can, since the back line is likely going to be loud enough for the whole room, and the stage. Use an iPad for each changeover to spend a minute with the vocalists on stage to hear what they are before the set starts. Be patient, be pumped to do the gig, and show the bands that you care about their set as soon as they load in. That will pay dividends and keep attitudes in check even if their monitors aren’t totally dialed immediately. +1 for earplugs to pop in once each band has a good mix out front. Remember to have fun!
Communicate early and often. Chances are the bands aren't aware of what they're walking into but they've probably been in the same position more than once so they'll probably be cool. If they're really cool they'll do most of their own stage setup with only minimal direction from you.
If these are standard pop/rock bands with the usual lineups (guitars bass drums keys vox etc) and sources (58s 57s D112s 604s DI boxes etc) you should be able to rough in a festival patch mix ahead of time so you can hit the ground running.
Don't feel like you have to carry the entire responsibility for a successful show on your own. The bands will have to accept that there will be a basic mix of vocals in the wedges and any special needs will be catered for as much as possible. One sound-person doing foh and monitors alone will obviously be flat out getting everyone happy. Let the bands know that you'll do your best but they will just have to accept what's there. Good luck mate.
Appreciate your helpful words! I understand where your coming from I just hope the bands do too haha
This is great advice. Please take heart and listen to Rolaid's words. It's too easy to carry the whole world on your shoulders in this situation.
I do this a lot. Best way I’ve found is give everyone their own vocal in their wedge at a decent volume. Then give them all each other’s vocal but at about -10db from their own. Put the guitars in moderately in the drummer’s wedge and some kick. If their are any keys tracks or acoustic instruments put them in everything. That should be a good start for most bands. If you get a chance to send a message to the bands you can ask for stage plots and ask everyone if there’s anything they DON’T want in their mix and then you just have to turn off a couple things and maybe push a vocal or guitar up here and there.
Some good advice mate, appreciate your help. I shall put it into practice and see how I get on!
Oh I forgot the most important part. This may seem obvious if you’ve done this before. But put a vocal at every monitor location even if it isn’t called for just in case so you don’t have to shoehorn in channels on the fly and don’t let the band move them from their monitor positions. Vocal 1 in front of Wedge 1, V2 in front of W2 etc. If they don’t want it just pull the stand but make sure it goes back where it’s supposed to be so you don’t get messed up when you’re looking at the stage. If they can’t handle that you may want to kill your self but it happens. One solution is to put some different colors of tape on your mic cables XLR ends so you can see it from stage if they get moved. I never put them on the mic unless it’s wireless since they can get disconnected and switched around if the band is connecting their own mics. That bulk pack of neon spike tape works good for this as long as the lighting is somewhat natural.
Yeah I’ll definitely be spiking a lot of the mic placements and amps, with 8 bands it’s gonna be a lot of moving around and stuff will end up all over the stage!! I’ll definitely be firm in that regard with mic placements!! Fingers crossed they listen and I can live to mix another show🙌
The biggest problem with these things is the efficiency of the bands. I’m guessing you’re stage manager too. If you’re organized, you will not be the bottleneck. Plan where they get off stage and how they get on. Anything they need to set up needs to get unpacked before change over, etc. They need to know not to Dick around after they play. “Good show! GO!”
You’ll also find there’s a few bands where someone only wants themselves vocally and doesn’t want the rest of the band to know or nobody wants a specific person but won’t want them to know. So that’s why I always try to ask people individually quickly if I get a chance while they load in.
The odds are pretty high that they’ll all want roughly the same thing in wedges. I hope for your sake it’s hardcore bands, they’re always the nicest and most understanding. They’re also the easiest to “get going”. In most cases, we find that we’re sitting in our hands by the second band in at both monitors and FOH. Your jobs harder since you’re doing both, but I bet if you get that first band dialed in, it’s smooth sailing. Also, I did a two day variety style show a few weeks ago. Monitors weren’t great after day 1, AND we had a monitor guy with an impossible mission to make 60 people happy. Day 2 we came in early, I played the instruments myself and we setup a monitor mix that was truely what they needed. Turns out I knew better than the musicians what was needed onstage. Day 2 we got nothing but compliments on the stage sound. So… trust your instincts and your ears on what’s really needed in monitors, and once it’s dialed in reasonably that’s the end game. You shouldn’t do much work past band 3.
Small personal anecdote. I once mixed a hardcore band in a small club and ALL of their gear was cranked. The singer came offstage and told me that he couldn't get over how good the venue sounded and they were excited for everyone to show up. I got there about 10 minutes ago and hadn't even turned on the amps to the PA lol. They're really a sweet bunch.
Hardcore bands are always the sweetest. The music is not my thing at all, quite the opposite, but I know I’m going to make a few friends on those nights. Those nights always look the hardest on paper, and then they turn out to be super easy.
I was thinking the same, unfortunately there’s no metal bands on tonight, it’s more alt rock / punk. By the sounds of things if I get the first hand really dialled in I shouldn’t have to do too much messing about for the rest of the night! Hopefully after the first night I should be fairly confident on my ability to get the mons sounding good! Appreciate your help mate, some great tips and advice!!
Alt rock is more of a toss up, but the punk bands should give you the same sort of vibe as the hardcore bands. The scene is so DIY that they can make do without any monitors whatsoever, and they’re thrilled to even have the faintest glimmer of a vocal in their monitor. I mixed Flipper a few months ago in a venue that’s top notch all the way around, I killed it, monitor guy killed it, and we (band and crew) all laughed at the end of the night because punk rock probably shouldn’t come across that well haha.
You're response to a request for "more" of anything should be "Well, OK, but a REAL punk band would demand chaos and horrible sound"
This is gold
Yep. Set a baseline mix and tweak it if they need it. I've done a couple similar shows to this and that's what I did. I had 3 wedges up front and one for the drummer. Lead vocals in all wedges, any other mics put some in but not quite as loud. No guitar or bass in the front wedges but give the drummer some. Some drummers want some of their kick in the wedge so they can hear it better. If there are any keys/acoustic instruments or amp modelers with no stage cabs distribute signal accordingly. Also, I'm a big fan of the "silent soundcheck" - that being check your inputs watching the meters so you know about where they're at while letting background music come through the house.
Nothing going to be perfect - it just has to be good enough. 1. Let the band plugin. 2. Do a line & gain check. 3. Then while on stage with a tablet or laptop with m-edit installed ask everyone what they want to hear. run trough a small section of a song, stop, make any changes they request and then go back to FOH when they are happy/content. 4. when the next band comes up go to step 1. For the most part they will all want the same thing and using the mix from each previous bad as a start point should reduce the swap over time. Just remember you can make something louder in monitors by turning 1 thing up or everything else down. If you have to patch in an IEM rig just drop the masters for the monitors to negative infinity to reduce the SPL on stage and reduce the volume needed in the IEM's to get over the stage noise. The IEM rig should be self contained and they should be able to mix there own IEM's. If they just have a head set and you are not providing any wireless/wired packs well then they probably just get a wedge and have to deal with it.
Well said, nothing will be perfect but I’ll give it my best shot. Thanks for the advice, really appreciate it! Hopefully there won’t be any awkward bands.
Set vocals in the wedges before soundcheck and find out your maximum send level that you cannot exceed. During the show, check mixes in your headphones to check the balance.
Appreciate your help mate!
This is a throw and go situation. Vocals in the monitors and you’re up and running. It’s fortunate that you are keeping all backline- that’ll leave you just a minute or two at each changeover for minor adjustments. Use your authority as the sound person (because I doubt they’re going to have a stage manager at this scale) and tell the bands realistically what they can expect/ask for with this short of a slot. “Hey guys were running on a really tight schedule here. I’ve got all the vocals in the wedges and we can make one or two little tweaks but we only have x minutes until you play, so just tell me the most important stuff.”
Guitar bands? For Mon from FOH, especially in a small room, please forget the “faders on unity” madness. With amps blasting from stage you end up haveing trouble making anything sound nice on stage quickly. First, all vocals on all the monitors before the first band gets in. Get to know the levels. Turn down a few dB for the first sound check (always leave the mics open). If the monitors are good enough, bit of kick for the drummer (with the size of the room, try to avoid putting snare or hat on anything) Guitars: bit of both for the drummer and cross them for the guitarist. Try to keep the singers monitor clear from everything but vocals. If you gain to, let’s say -20 (on a M32) you will see that the FOH faders will be all over the place but the monitor faders will all be quite level with each other. Now you know, of a keyboard player drags his set on stage, and you gained it correctly, how much you have to shove that fader up ;-). Quick tips: Put everything (but the DJ, background music) on a DCA. This way, you van either mute everything at once or turn FOH off when you do a line-monitor check. As for communication with the band, make clear that you want hem to have good stage sound but you can’t hear what they are hearing from the back of the room so.. communication is key. Tell them that you don’t know that the other guys name is Jo or who plays lead guitar. Or if you point to him that is vocals or instrument. Ask them (can be with FOH off) to play a small part of a chorus or something to check monitors. Ask them if it’s ok. If you get nods, it’s their fault :P At the end of the first song, walk to the stage so that they can see you, ask for thumbs up and let’s rock!! (Oh and when you have an iPad, turn off FOH and just get on stage, listen what they hear) Good luck! Oh.. with eight bands, don’t forget to walk out of the room when it’s all set the second song. Just for a minute or even half. Get back in and you hear your mix a lot better.
Yep, all 8 bands have atleast one guitar player for sure! I see what your saying with faders on unity, it’s a very small and reflective room, I always find myself competing with heavy handed drummers who love to ruin my mixes with their dry cymbals! Some great advice mate, I never thought of having to leave for a couple minutes to let me ears rest, I’m sure by the 4/5th band my ears are going to be quite fatigued so I’m gonna try my best to prolong this from happening as much as possible. Really appreciate your help, I’ll post an update tomorrow to let you know how the gig went!
Great advice here. I’ll add one thing and share one thing. -earplugs by the 2nd tune for each band. Better yet you’re trusting yourself by the third or fourth band and they stay in for all but a few seconds. I’m going to earplugs as soon as humanly possible, sometimes at the top of the show with the right metering equipment (that I can effectively read, know and trust of course). -there’s a band that I’ve been mixing now for 20 years, just did a reunion show a few months ago. I’ve been to their weddings, we’re very close. The second they step on stage they are no longer called by their given names, they get called “stage right guitar” and “center vocal” even though I’ve known them for two decades.
As a base, ring out your monitors with the vocal mics and then keep only those mics in the respective wedges. As you do your line check ask the band if they want any of that channel in their wedge. Then after the line check tell the band that they can ask for monitor mix changes in between songs by pointing at the instrument they want then an up or down had gesture.
Thanks for your help mate, ringing out the mons is my first protocol for sure. I just wanted to limit the amount of hand gestures from the stage as much as possible but I’m sure that I’ll have to deal with it as the night progresses! Thanks for your advice appreciate it!
All of the advice here is good, only thing i’d add is REALLY stay on top of gain staging and make sure you set your gains right when you line check everything. This way your basic mix can stay pretty much the same.
Great point, I’ll definitely try to stay on top of it for sure.
Thanks for your help mate
Make sure you have a talkback microphone for yourself and a wedge so you can route the stage vocals to your wedge during soundcheck.. nothing more annoying than trying to shout at each other from the stage
For sure, there’ll be a talk back fed to all the wedges on stage and vice versa ! I’ve been caught out before earlier on in my career and I’ve never made that mistake twice!! Appreciate your help!
Sure sure.. other than that, I’d double as many channels as possible (all the vox at least) to have dedicated MON channels separate from FOH.. oh and make sure you’re an absolute ninja on the console because you’re gonna need to be fast 😆😅
Yep I usual run split vocal lines for mons and FOH so all good in that regard! Hahaha a ninja maybe not so much but I’m pretty confident in my abilities to get shit done fast!😂
It would be helpful but every room I’ve ever done monitors from FOH in there’s either no room at FOH for a cue wedge or there’s not enough wedges/amp channels/speaker cable to get one out there
Yeah been in that situation many times unfortunately haha! Probably worth carrying something like this with you then https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0957
Headphones are your friend for getting monitors mixes alright and being able to fine tune inputs and vocals while the whole band is playing. Label vocal microphones by both colour and number if there's a chance they're gonna move about on stage without you full control so you can always see where they are and adapt monitor mixes appropriately. Make sure to talk with the organizers beforehand about getting appropriate breaks!
Got my cans and my trusty sharpie at the ready and bunch of tape👌 For sure will definitely need a break at some stage, whether that happens or not is another story!
Assign the custom buttons on the M32R for send on fader. Mix 1 on button 1 and so forth. Makes monitor mixing a lot easier, and if you can keep your channel count down to 16 you will save yourself a lot of jumping around.
Really interesting point, I’ve never heard of this before! I’ll definitely give this a go and let you know how I get on! Thanks mate!
You’re welcome. Did you know that if you push “ch1-8” and “ch9-16” at the same time you can have those across both fader banks? Same for any 2 fader select bank buttons I think
Make a default monitor scene with a basic monitor mix. Keep levels moderately low. In a place where they can just hear it when they walk up. They're always going to ask for it louder so working up to their level is always easier. Lead Vocal & Guitars in every wedge. Kick n Snare in Bass and Drum wedge. After the first band, make sure you safe the drum channels and whatever else you want to keep EQ/Processing for. Then, load just your default monitor mix so it's a clean slate. Or just flip faders and manually set it back. Don't let them rush you. Take charge.
Leave all vocals in all monitors. Leave it set from the previous hand. During the bands, make sure you go find the next band and have a conversation with them about the amount of time you have for changeover, that you're going to mic everything up and to keep things on time you're gonna have them start right away, and that you want them to use hand signals throughout the show if they need any changes. The bands will probably have all played similar types of shows and will be used to it.
What I suggest is that you do a house patch, that stays the same from band to band. For example: 1. Kick 2. Snare 3. Hihat 4. Tom 5. Tom 6. Tom 7. OH L 8. OH R 9. Bass DI 10. Bass Mic 11. GTR L 12. GTR R 13. Keys DI 1 14. Keys DI 2 15. Keys DI 3 16. Keys DI 4 17. Voc 1 18. Voc 2 19. Voc 3 20. Voc 4 21. Voc 5 22. to 32. free Not sure what they are called in M32, but use Groups/DCA’s like this: 1. Drums 2. Bass 3. Guitars 4. Keys 5. Vocals 6. Free 1 7. Free 2 8. FX Use the free channels to whatever curveball saxophone etc comes. Keep monitors to minimum. The less there is volume on stage, cleaner the mix out. I’d start with vocals and DI instruments to whomever is playing it, lead vocals to everyone. Other instruments only if they specifically ask for something. If the stage is wide, consider sending the guitar on the left side to the monitor on right side. Also: super dick move from the promoter to book 8 bands if you are handling the sound just by yourself.
Throw and go baby! Basically what I do is make sure all the vocals are up in each mix throw in kick & snare, then just do the rest on the fly. 8 bands alone is far too much for everyone to get their own full mix.
I do this sort of show once a week. It’s heavy going but as long as your rough mix is hitting the right points you should be fine.
Some people don't like this but I've been in a similar situation and I just asked musicians to connect to my wifi and mix their own monitors. Less than ideal but it can work in a pinch
I would only do this if people were on IEMs
All the bands will probably want to hear similar things. If the guitar player gets their own wedge keep the level of them high so they are less likely to make the audience deaf and my job harder. Vocal everywhere i usually have the vocal in the singers wedge very high but still stable and start with 15 db lower than the singers segment in every other wedge and go from there. Drums usually aren’t to fussy so bit of kick and bass guitar to start off, sometimes vocal as well. Keys and singers are top priority if your short on wedges. I Always do monitors last on the soundcheck and do them quickly, if you do them first it ends up a mess and the band don’t have a chance to get a natural balance. Keep guitar levels quiet if possible. I personally hate 15 min change over for 30 min slots feels far to long.
M32R? There’s an iPad app for that, right? If so, it might be a good idea to be on-stage with the band during the changeover so you can hear exactly what they’re hearing in the wedges. Otherwise, I think others have already posted all the advice I’d give. Good luck! Let us know how the show goes.
Lots of good info here. Not sure these were said already: 1. Get in early to ring out mics, especially vocals. 2. Bring snacks 3. Monitors don’t have to be perfect off the bat. I always say “my name is blah blah blah, let me know what you need along the way and I’ll give you a 5 min heads up at 25”. If they’re needy and taking their time, don’t be hesitant to say we need to start but don’t hesitate to communicate with me 4. If people want to use their own mics, cool. But if I rang things out according to my house mics then they’re potentially asking for trouble which can potentially come down to wedge positioning and how much air they’re pushing as singers. 5. This is your house you’re wearing all the hats. 98% of the time people are respectful and understand what “festival style” is… but sometimes they have to be reminded that this isn’t their show 6. Find a good and consistent sequence for line checking monitors. I normally have to give directions to bands, like “raise your finger if you want this in your monitor and drop your hand when you’re good”
My quick monitor mix for this type of festival, is to put all of the vocals the same level in all the mixes and nothing else with the exception of Di instruments at the start of each band, and just let them tell me what they need as we get going. I normally use my talk back to ask whom ever looks ready while they are tuning if their vocal is good. Keep the mixes basic and also your questions, If you ask who wants this in their monitor most likely everyone will say me.
Get the 1st band right. In each change-over, ask the band if they need 'anything whacky' in the monitors. Tell each band there will be a quick line check and to let you know any changed in mons Then line check them (each successive band), instrument by instrument, 10sec tops. After drums I just say "bass please", get my gain...'everyone good for bass?" spend 5sec making any adjustment...." cool, guitar to my left.....cool....all good?"....5-10 sec each one. It sounds hectic, but most of it will be fairly similar, once you have the gains right. If anyone wants a crazy amount of, for example guitar, or none at all.....make a note of that, so you can put it back to the 'normal' level you started with when their set is finished Good luck. Trial by fire. Communication is key, tell them 'hey guys, we have a super quick change-over, sorry if I rush through it, but I don't want you to need to cut any songs.....lets do it.....have a great set" Let them know you are on their side, but it is a bit rushed for all of you, and together you can make it the best it can be
I’ve done many of these, lots of great advice here. Definitely ring out your wedges for vocals, get them as ludicrous loud as you can before the bands show up, and then back it down to a reasonable level as a good starting point, knowing the headroom you can push from there. It sounds like a pretty small room, I’d suggest keeping the wedges for vocals and DI inputs as much as you can, since the back line is likely going to be loud enough for the whole room, and the stage. Use an iPad for each changeover to spend a minute with the vocalists on stage to hear what they are before the set starts. Be patient, be pumped to do the gig, and show the bands that you care about their set as soon as they load in. That will pay dividends and keep attitudes in check even if their monitors aren’t totally dialed immediately. +1 for earplugs to pop in once each band has a good mix out front. Remember to have fun!
Communicate early and often. Chances are the bands aren't aware of what they're walking into but they've probably been in the same position more than once so they'll probably be cool. If they're really cool they'll do most of their own stage setup with only minimal direction from you. If these are standard pop/rock bands with the usual lineups (guitars bass drums keys vox etc) and sources (58s 57s D112s 604s DI boxes etc) you should be able to rough in a festival patch mix ahead of time so you can hit the ground running.
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