That's what they did in Florence, where I lived for a few years. It was wonderful, but Florence is a lot smaller. I would like to see us pedestrianise Oxford Street, Soho and one of the bridges.
Soho was mainly pedestrianised during COVID times, and it was really refreshing to be able to cross the road without being bullied out of the way by an aggressive Uber driver in an angry looking Kia Niro.
Also given how busy Soho is usually it just means way more space, rather than groups of people packed outside pubs you could extend on to the roads.
Even then it's what, a 5 minute walk to Picadilly Circus or Leicester Square for the night tube? Much quicker than being stuck in the centre of Soho, where you'll average a speed of 3 mph because of how busy it is during weekends.
> That's what they did in Florence
Yes, although the excellent ZTL in Florence isn't a 24-hour thing.
It's only "active" during certain hours, so caffs and shops etc. can still get deliveries.
Yeah they do that now in some regions in London. Why do people always think we have to have either 24 hour pedestrianisation or none. Just make it open for cars from like 2am-10am or something
For a lot of the people I’ve heard say stuff like this it’s because they aren’t concerned with solutions and really just want something to argue about.
I like the Barcelona solution where you make one or two entrances/exits in a neighborhood and then drop the speed limit within. You can drive where you need to go, but cutting across residential areas is no longer a shortcut to get elsewhere.
Most ZTLs in Italy allow residents and business deliveries within and tend not to be for 24h. Ours in Turin is only in the morning to dissuade driving to work in the center. It works pretty well. Pedestrian areas are another kettle of fish.
As I heard one city planner tell, it residents/business owners fight like hell to not have pedestrian areas, but you never see them removed once installed. Everyone loves them, especially the shops that get double the foot traffic.
I don't think it was the council, exactly, but more local businesses and residents. As the council says [here](https://www.westminster.gov.uk/news/update-plans-oxford-street/faqs), "**Previous attempts to pedestrianise Oxford Street have met significant opposition** and we have considered the concerns raised about the potential impact on public transport, traffic diversions and disabled access in the area."
At the moment they have just consulted on a [£90m scheme](https://www.oxfordstreetprogramme.co.uk/) to make lots of changes including more direct vehicles routes in the surrounding area, increasing footway space in some places, reducing the width of the carriageway, allowing two-way traffic along the whole street, changing the direction of traffic in various surrounding streets, changing where vehicles can turn and not turn, adding Sunday to the days when certain parts of the street are restricted to buses, taxis and cycles, changing the portions of the street along which this applies, reducing unnecessary road markings, removing some bus stops, adding other bus stops, changing bus routes, removing medians, islands and bus laybys, raising the level of the road at pedestrian crossings, better signage, adding trees, seating and cycle lanes, new traffic signals and crossings, making some side streets into cul-de-sacs, "amenity spaces", etc. The main idea is to [relieve crowding and increase safety](https://www.oxfordstreetprogramme.co.uk/oxford-circus/). The proposals have received support from "two-thirds of residents, visitors and businesses" so are going ahead.
One interesting thing is how many times Sadiq Khan has been asked about progress on his manifesto commitment to pedestrianise the street (previous mayors have also been asked about their plans to do the same):
https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/pedestrianisation-oxford-street-3
In the NL, they frequently use roadblocks (iron polls) that can be retracted into the ground. Pedestrian zones that allow for vehicle access are pretty common all over mainland Europe, now
>make all tube stations wheelchair accessible
I love the energy, but it has to be acknowledged that making the entire legacy tube network wheelchair accessible is an absolute *nightmare* of an engineering job. There is some low hanging fruit out there to get you started to be sure, but overall it will likely be some combination of slow to happen, *very* expensive and very disruptive, especially if we want a proper job done of it.
Which makes the decision to build the Crossrail without full level boarding all the way along even more disgusting, as it needlessly added to an already daunting amount of work that as far as I am concerned *needs* to be done.
I am 100% down, as far as I am concerned it needs to be done and will be worth it in the end, but it definitely won't be cheap, easy, or as quick as anyone would ideally like it to be.
Crossrail has a few odd decisions when it comes to it's layout. Only a single regular entrance to the station in a part of the city that is growing is strange.
But with the trains not being all level boarding, isn't that just a legacy of having multiple train classes stopping at shared platforms?
There's a similar issue on the Overground, that should be level boarding on all the new platforms that were put in when it was being rebuilt.
I worry that there'll be future funding issues for TfL due to the fare freeze, but we'll have a massive fare hike in the near future.
Sorry this is a bit meandering.
Who cares, thoughts meander, James Joyce had a career boost from it and I'd rather read your thoughts (though from my perspective that's not much of a compliment).
I'm disappointed the amount invested in renaming stations like Windrush etc, which although I like the idea, I think it's less helpful than pushing those same resources towards actual transport changes, but then I think Khan is spending too much on enhancing his profile rather than improving things.
To be clear I was interested in your points and prefer meandering (with exception of Ulyssess although it does have some funny bits). I'm not even in London anymore but some part of me still feels I am.
Main roads would of course be open to busses only. And deliveries would take place at designated hours in the early morning- the city still has to function. But the principle of the city being for people, not their cars should appeal to everyone... especially anyone who experienced the joys of Soho during lockdown.
I imagine you would make a dedicated bus lane down the middle of the road. Maybe, with more room, nicer bus shelters/stops. Buses would be easier to manage as schedules would be much more predictable.
It's not only deliveries though. Contractors need to be able to get to the places with equipment. Plumbing/electrical issues are not something that happens only during designated hours as well as on site equipment breakdowns etc. As you have said - city still has to function and businesses too. No restaurant/office will agree to cease functioning for a day due to sewers flood or lack of electricity and just patiently wait until 2am so contractor can come on site and fix the issue. Not many contractors willing to do this kind of thing between 2 and 4am too.
As much as I do agree that private cars are not necessary in areas like Soho I still think it is not realistic to completely block automotive movement there because of the above.
Speaking of deliveries, this area includes the Portland Hospital for Women and Children. I'd rather not give birth on the escalator at Warren St because I couldn't get a cab to labour ward!
I live and work in a pedestrianised center in Ghent and it's pretty easy. You just have companies able to give permission for technicians and the like (by registering their license plate online) and your problem is solved.
Taxis, buses and trams are the only ones with regular access to the roads. Emergency services as well ofc.
I've got to say there was a lot of pushback when they implemented it but it's been an absolute joy and now I hate going to cities without a pedestrianized city center.
What about tradesman that work normal hours and someone needs their boiler fixed? What about emergency vehicles? What about black cabs that make almost all their money driving too and from this area? What about construction that needs deliveries all day long?
I'm not sure you guys quite understand how big this area is. Apart from the anomaly of Venice, the largest pedestrian only area in Europe is in Brussels and it's a tiny fraction of this size, and it still allows taxis and residents cars.
Yeah they could pedestrianise smaller roads and inbetweens, but leave a few major 'through roads', it could work great as a 'cluster' of pedestrian zones. Each bridge should ideally connect in some way to a road that leaves central London to the north. And the Strand, to cross it east-west. Creating a 'north bank' along Embankment with things like the South Bank has would be huge, too, although harder to do.
Although if they pedestrianise, ban those stupid overpriced LED-lit up tricycle guys that go around all day offering 'rides' for extortionate prices
"Boilers broken?"
"Yes I'm 86 years old, it's winter you know"
"I'd love to come and help you darling, but some smug prick on Reddit thought we should pedestrianise Central London"
"Ooo but it's very cold".
"Well I'll tell you what, I'll be round at 3am, I'll knock loud, make sure you've got your hearing aids in, and if you haven't died of exposure I'll get your boiler fixed. Mind you if I can't get it done by 5 you're in trouble, I'll have to be out of the city by then".
That'll teach her to be old and live in Central London.
According to OP you either need to be able to walk/cycle for a mile, have easy acess to a tube station or get fucked
The place already has minimal traffic. There are very few private vehicles already, the vast majority of the vehicles are private hire vehicles, taxis, delivery vehicles and public service vehicles. Any more restrictions than there are today might seem like a nice idea but it would cause all kinds of problems, not least a huge headache for anyone that actually relies on the area for their day to day business.
Some ideas are nice, but some are unrealistic and take things too far.
People also don't understand the impacts things like this have on other regions. For example with the pedestrianisation of Aldwych, the number 6 bus now no longer serves Soho at all, so one of the invisible costs of having an extra outdoor space there was that everyone up the bus route lost a busy and crucial connection to the city centre.
Yeah, the Euston Road is the north border of the congestion zone. It carries all the traffic that's avoiding and circumnavigating the zone.
What do you expect to happen when you implement traffic displacing measures? Lol. You displace it!
As a tradesman you can sod right off with your early morning deliveries. I'm up at the crack of dawn already. Now I've got to get up earlier. No thanks.
Do you have any idea the amount of freight that goes into London on a daily basis?
And why should truck drivers change their lives, waking up at 2am, seeing their families less when they already work 50-60 hours a week and weekends?
As the working class, we already have a crap existence, living on the fringes of this city and now we’re banished to the night??
Also how would you do deliveries to the shops, offices, building sites..... You can't just supply them between 11PM-7AM. As there will be nobody there to take in the deliveries and there isnt enough space on a building site to store all of the materials that they would need. If you have an emergency plumbing problem. You can't have the plumber bring a new toilet to the site by tube.
I'm all for reducing single occupancy private vehicles from central and making certain streets entirely vehicle-free (looking at you in particular Oxford Street), but carte blanche pedestrianisation of such a large area has more downsides than people initially imagine:
* St. Bart's and Great Ormond Street hospitals would be inaccessible by road.
* Deliveries to shops, restaurants and offices could no longer be in the same bulk as now - would have to be split into much smaller cargo bike-sized deliveries (meaning less selection and higher prices for customers).
* Construction and trades severely affected by lack of vehicle access to sites.
* [Key Bus routes](https://content.tfl.gov.uk/bus-route-maps/key-bus-routes-in-central-london.pdf) would be severely impacted.
* Park Lane as the main North-South route bypassing the CCZ to the west would be unavailable forcing more traffic into already congested Chelsea, Kensington and Paddington.
* People do live in the highlighted area, some of whom will be Disabled, old or both. Lack of a taxi or dial-a-ride option from immediately outside their home would create even further accessibility barriers for them.
It would be more realistic to pedestrianise a few individual streets for sure. While, as a disabled person I don’t like people using disabled people as a monolith in arguments about traffic and road use etc (vehicles create accessibility barriers of their own, anyway), especially when they don’t particularly give a shit about any issues disabled people face in any other context, pedestrianising huge swathes of cities like this isn’t practical. You could have rolling pedestrian zones across this area and allow emergency vehicle access, deliveries between 5-7am, etc, like most pedestrianised city areas do.
True, disabilities come in many forms and Disabled people are often a side consideration (if considered at all). However, I am speaking about disability with some experience, having a close Disabled relative live with me at weekends.
The problem with 5-7am deliveries is on paper that sounds all well and good. However, [NIMBY-ism is rife](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66384456). A 5am delivery is going to create complaints, meaning later delivery times and all bunched in a new, say, pre-8am window.
Not forgetting we would have more delivery drivers, depot workers and shop/restaurant/maintenance workers all being asked to work at unsociable hours compared to what we have now.
Agree with you that large-scale road closures are not practical in a city. Certain streets or clusters could be pedestrianised to create destinations in their own right, somewhat like Carnaby Street.
Or stop disabled people outside the area getting to the hospitals, or going to work etc. Before anyone pipes up that they can use public transport, remember not all disabled people can.
Restricting private vehicles would already make a huge difference. I'm from Germany, where most city centres are pedestrianised, and there are exceptions for deliveries to shops etc. That's probably the most common system in other European countries as well.
Totally agree, plus there are plenty of private doctors in the area, which you couldn’t get using a taxi if something urgent. As the relatively new driver, I tried to drive to this area a couple of times - I was always late to my appointments, looking for a place to park. I was always parking in awkward places fearing to get a fine and spent a fortune on parking fees. So, after a couple times I stopped doing this and parking outside this circle. I confirm this area is hostile for private cars.
I'd just like to echo the part about the hospitals not being accessible. I deliver vital oxygen in bulk in a large vehicle into both of theses. This policy would cause deaths.
Use a cargo bike, innit? /s
Yes, there are some eco delivery options for small scale, non-time critical items.
But as you've highlighted, there's so much more to keeping a running a city than is immediately obvious. Bulk/scale is cheaper and actually more environmentally-friendly (fewer journeys) for everyone.
Construction would be a nightmare.
Refuse collection.
Essentially anything that involves moving large heavy stuff would be difficult/expensive, including any sort of repair or consulting works involving heavy/specialist tools.
The map has decided for some reason to label that bit of Bloomsbury as St Pancras, St Pancras station is actually just above the blue line, it's on on Euston road (which I'm assuming would remain a trafficed roadway. The encircled area is all pretty much already congestion charge, and doesn't get overmuch private road vehicles anyway.
Loool clueless people come up with ridiculous ideas. I work in events and do you realise how many events go on in central London everyday that all need trucks and vans to be able to get to the venues and unload and load, so we’ll just completely shut events in central London down just so pedestrians can walk in the roads lol
Disagree, no other city on the planet has a pedestrian zone anywhere remotely close to this size, even the most anti car places in the world. edit: Tbh I find the map used actually misleading in size to anyone who isn't good with London maps. It only shows main roads so probably 90% of them are removed which makes the area look tiny compared to how big it actually is. To walk the perimeter of OPs pedestrian zone would take about 4 HOURS.
It's a bit arbirtary too since it even covers the west ring road/congestion charge boundary too so it would be hard for vehicles to even go around it, and a bunch of it has no shops or similar places on. Looks like they just drew a big circle around central London without much thought.
To be "realistic" the best plan will always be to just simply pedestrianise the West End, which includes Soho, Covernt Garden, and Leicester Square, and only like on weekends(11am-10pm) to start with. Outline shown here - https://i.imgur.com/m9Hvu78.png
It's still a massive area despite being like 10x smaller. It'll still be probably 20x bigger than any other city pedestrian area in the UK and it's the densest part of the city for bars, restraunts, cafes, shops, and general entertainment venues including most of our theatres.
The 2 green roads are just the main 2 roads which any bus that uses them can continue to do so. If they have to then blue badge and maybe taxis can enter too BUT unlike buses they can't pass through, they'd have to go back the way they went in AND the entire area will be pedestrian priority so they'd probably be going walking speed through much of soho.
Deliveries can still be made on weekdays or between 10pm-11am on weekends.
Not as much as what you wanted but it would still be one of the best things to ever happen to london. It's still a huge area where you could easily spend 2 hours walking around without backtracking, thats not exactly small is it? People will be much more concentrated too so the whole area will feel much more lively.
Wont happen though since it's in Westminster, the council which seemingly will be terrible no matter if Labour or Conservative control it. Just needs to happen ONCE though and I think it'll be such a crazy huge sucess that they wont be able to go back.
This makes a LOT more sense than the OPs map. I've actually driven many of these roads, and some are insanely busy. Your map misses most of these out - the roads that make up the edges are all very busy. You've covered deliveries. The green roads might need to allow a bit more than you've mentioned, but maybe limit them to electric vehicles only and no private vehicles
Bro you just don’t get it, I have a little downtown area in my tiny city with no cars and it’s so easy, just do the same thing but bigger. I smoked a bowl and thought about it all night bro and my dad worked in finance I know what I’m talking about, it’ll work out
I don't know when Reddit became filled with moronic anti-car, ultra-urbanist ideologues who glorify anything, no matter how impractical, expensive, or unpopular, as long as it hinders automobiles and the people who use them (aka everyone). Even the less radical types who coom for trains or whatever fall into this same hole, in their minds cars are evil and the less of them there are in the world, the better. Practicality, cost, or the will of the majority who overwhelmingly see cars as brilliant tools mean nothing to them.
Regardless, I wish it weren't the case.
What about all the embassies and high commissions in the area. For security reasons I can’t imagine Ambassadors etc. taking public transport or their guests!
Ultimately, I hate this idea as someone who is disabled and dependent on my children dropping me off and picking me up!
Completely brain dead idea. Not practical in a thousand different ways, as others have spelled out. I thought Reddit had more intelligent people on it but I was clearly mistaken.
No, it would kill the area in terms of nightlife as we couldn’t get a cab home.
I’m not a driver, but for it to work we’d need 24/7 trains and underground.
This is really bloody stupid. I mean nice idea we all like pedestrian zones but in reality this is a huge area, with tons of bus routes, loads of shops and businesses that need deliveries, lots of hotels bars and restaurants that tourists want to visit in taxis etc etc.
As a engineer that works in London, you'll never have anything fixed / installed / delivered again and if you do expect to be paying 4 x the cost minimum.
Most guys I know don't like working in London even if we can park directly outside the block we're working in. Wouldn't stand a chance if I was asked to lug my gear 20 minutes down the road.. 😂😂😂
Appreciate the idea but Londons just too big, having to only walk or cycle if I wanna get down Oxford st to make a quick trip overground? No bueno.
What about ambulances, delivery, police, its a huge area. It's practical to do some sections but not this.
Make train prices affordable like in Europe.
A return train shouldn't be 2-3 euros in Madrid and 15 odd quid in London.
Shouldn't cost 60 quid for a family to travel about london.
Then I'd support this.
The statement that "single occupancy cars don't even need to be there" is one I'd mostly agree with. But not all traffic is single occupancy cars. I could imagine the city functioning mostly ok if most private cars were banned, but there would still need to be streets open to buses, deliveries, and cabs.
Yeah in one area like that it could work, but this OP proposal covers a pretty much all of zone 1. The tube is great but disabled access isn't good enough (yet) for this to be even slightly viable.
The anti-car crowd always forget that disabled people exist. London's transport network's accessibility looks good from an outside point of view, but as a disabled person, it's... not great.
"Certain side roads".
As is already the case in significant amounts of that area. There are already ample amounts of pedestrianised areas in that region. The city still needs to be able to move efficiently.
In some areas suited to it, it makes sense. In many areas, you'd not see the space utilised in the way envisaged, meaning a wasteful infrastructure outlay.
There are also other invisible costs. By having more pedestrian space you also have more space you need to police and maintain to a higher standard. So the long term financing and management also needs to be considered. It's all good and well having some nice additions to public furniture, but more public furniture also means more damage, vandalism and cleaning to deal with on an ongoing basis. Roads don't need anywhere near the same level of ongoing maintenance.
Nice utopia in theory but would be ridiculous in practice. This is a major global hub and the business people and tourists taxiing around central London play a major part in keeping this city relevant. If you start making London anti-business (as already seen with the exodus of companies from the LSEG) and not tourist-friendly then it stops working imo.
Soho, yes. Parts of Covent Garden and the theatre district, also yes. But that whole area is excessive. At the very least, electric taxis and buses would need arteries cutting through, to get people from place to place with luggage, pushchairs and other things that don't work on the tube at rush hour.
Delivery and work vechicles still need to get there. The city runs on things being delivered constantly. You couldn't even maintain the buildings let alone finish the ones under construction in that scenario.
I'm in favour of reducing/removing single occupant vechicles and pedestrianizing where possible, but people seem to forget most of the things they need come via road.
Totally ignoring disabled people and those like me with restricted mobility. We need vehicles to get around - either our own cars, or public transport, so you are making a huge part of London inaccessible to the likes of me.
A well meaning idea but very little thought applied:
How do businesses and houses get deliveries?
What If I'm moving into the area, I have to lug my possessions through the streets to my new place?
All local business suddenly move out of this area due to lack of roads meaning those that live in the area now have to walk 20 minutes to find a shop/pub etc or even transport to work.
How would you build anything, how would you deliver anything, not everyone is able to walk those distances, it’s nonsensical
Soho ✅ Covent Garden ✅
The rest ❌
Otherwise known as "fuck off, disabled people."
(Completely pedestrianised would exclude buses and taxis, and cars driven by the disabled people who live there, and nope, "use a wheelchair" isn't a gotcha answer).
Ever heard of traffic displacement? Where does all the traffic that needs to go through central london go? Oh that's right to the outer more poorer boroughs conjesting them further..
How about no. Just use the pavements. You anti car people really want to destroy peoples businesses and livelihoods. If you hate cars so much move to the wilderness
As someone with a disability, this would make that whole area a no-go for me. I realise someone has mentioned making the stations wheelchair accessible, but I don’t use a wheelchair and there are a lot of people with disabilities who are in a similar situation to me.
Do you know how many conference centres there are inside this area. Do you know how many vans per day move through the capital containing events-based equipment?
The last time you were in the Ballroom of a Hilton Hotel, how did the speakers, stage, dressing, set, projectors (most hotels have PJs in their main rooms) microphones, lighting etc, turn up by magic?
Any venue inside that circle that runs ANY form of event will suffer and become more and more expensive if you ban, vehicles from this area.
Ban TAXIs and UBER in this area between (9am-5pm), there are Buses and the Underground that single commuters can use rather than taking a TAXI or walk London is not that big!
For some jobs in London I'm required to be there before public transport starts and I leave after the public transport options have ended.
Completely pedestrian would be an awful idea. Buses, taxis and trade need to get there.
I do a fair bit of work in that area - how am I going to lug around 100+kg of equipment to client offices
Completely pedestrianise this area except for:
* Buses
* Taxis
* Residents
* Services
* Ambulances
* Construction
So basically just ban 30/40% more vehicles from this area making it even nicer for the mostly wealthy people that live there.
It depends on what ‘completely pedestrianise’ means. As long as you keep buses, taxis, Ubers, deliveries, tradespeople and emergency services, I’m all for it. The thing is I work in that area and it’s pretty much already like that, very few private cars around.
I like the idea of walkable streets, but there's one thing I've always found to be really stupid and short sighted about these ideas- It's that your electrician, or your plumber, your movers, your delivery guys, or even you yourself- anybody who needs to have something done that may have heavy equipment, or a lot of things to carry, or a limited amount of time to deliver your goods, is going to have to walk five streets from their van or lorry, carrying all their stuff the entire time.
Not to mention some people living in the area will need their vehicles.
It's a nice sounding idea, but blocking any large place off for vehicles entirely is not a well thought out one, I think.
Sounds lovely, but what about deliveries and people who would need to take a car to this place? I'm a musician and wouldn't be able to play any gigs in the area because I couldn't get my rig there.
London construction is worth a lot of money and not just to men in suits, it also provides jobs to huge amounts of workers, constructions vehicles need access to London.
I'm all for more pedestrianisation where it makes sense, but the above is one of many reasons I feel that would cause the cons to outweigh the pros.
Unfortunately I can’t see the person delivering a new bath/sofa/kitchen counter/etc being very willing to walk it ~1 mile to my fictional flat in Farringdon.
Much as I hate cars and I would love for this to be feasible I’d be concerned about the effect on businesses relying on deliveries, because there are a *lot* of restaurants and bars in that area, as well as lots of tourist attractions and retail space in general. If I saw a way of doing this that wouldn’t impact that I’d be in favour of it.
Great idea. Luckily there’s no shops or anything that need constant deliverys in that area. Or any buildings that require any kind of building works pretty much constantly as all the buildings are so modern.
You'd need to figure out how access could be retained for delivery, emergency and utility vehicles and at what time. Some deliveries (maybe even most) could be done using a cargo bike but not all.
What do you mean by the cars ‘don’t need to be there?’
Imagine stocking all the shops on Oxford street by walking the pallets from Elephant and Castle 😂
Or getting a cab home from a night out in Soho, except the closest the driver can get is Waterloo.
Or if you’re in an ambulance that has to go around a presumably super busy ring-road that cuts through Zone 2, instead of going across town?
I’m a cyclist most of the time, but even I can tell this is nonsense! Sorry.
My kids disabled and lives in the middle of that area. I need to bring a car to the front door just to get him out, plus there’s the disabled transport to school and back.
Are u insane? How about people who work there not only day time but nights? I used to work in the night club in central london and bringing equipment to the club require me parking nearby after unloading gear. So anyone who hates cars that much - just go and live on an inhabited island. Londoners and central london need access on cars.
In most cases, pedestrianised areas do not exclude vehicles used for emergency services and vehicles used for deliveries and/or construction etc. They only exclude people using personal vehicles.
How much of traffic in that area is people using their personal vehicles for personal things though?
I mean, driving through central London looks kinda hellish. If you drew up a list of approved reasons to drive in central London and then banned everyone driven there for other reasons... how much traffic would you actually cut?
There are loads of buses (including tour buses) and taxis in that area, then you have the commercial deliveries... how much other traffic is really left?
That's what they did in Florence, where I lived for a few years. It was wonderful, but Florence is a lot smaller. I would like to see us pedestrianise Oxford Street, Soho and one of the bridges.
Soho was mainly pedestrianised during COVID times, and it was really refreshing to be able to cross the road without being bullied out of the way by an aggressive Uber driver in an angry looking Kia Niro. Also given how busy Soho is usually it just means way more space, rather than groups of people packed outside pubs you could extend on to the roads.
It was so much nicer when Soho was pedestrianised! Those pavements are too narrow to be usable, especially in the evenings
Unless you’re wasted,getting a cab to/from the centre of Soho is just unnecessary frankly
Even then it's what, a 5 minute walk to Picadilly Circus or Leicester Square for the night tube? Much quicker than being stuck in the centre of Soho, where you'll average a speed of 3 mph because of how busy it is during weekends.
Neither of those stations is accessible so you're placing disabled people in a bit of a bind- we like to party too!
I lived in Fitzrovia during thr pandemic, I was on furlough too so would just wonder around the empty streets in Soho and Bloomsbury daily. Was nice.
Unfortunately there are still a lot of highly entrenched residents in Soho who are vehemently against pedestrianisation.
Covid Soho was the best. Ahhh, the pandemic. The good old days.
> That's what they did in Florence Yes, although the excellent ZTL in Florence isn't a 24-hour thing. It's only "active" during certain hours, so caffs and shops etc. can still get deliveries.
Yeah they do that now in some regions in London. Why do people always think we have to have either 24 hour pedestrianisation or none. Just make it open for cars from like 2am-10am or something
For a lot of the people I’ve heard say stuff like this it’s because they aren’t concerned with solutions and really just want something to argue about.
I like the Barcelona solution where you make one or two entrances/exits in a neighborhood and then drop the speed limit within. You can drive where you need to go, but cutting across residential areas is no longer a shortcut to get elsewhere.
Most ZTLs in Italy allow residents and business deliveries within and tend not to be for 24h. Ours in Turin is only in the morning to dissuade driving to work in the center. It works pretty well. Pedestrian areas are another kettle of fish. As I heard one city planner tell, it residents/business owners fight like hell to not have pedestrian areas, but you never see them removed once installed. Everyone loves them, especially the shops that get double the foot traffic.
Isn't Hammersmith bridge already pedestrianised. 🤣
Yes, I leave 3 mins away from it, I am kinda happy that it hasn't been fixed yet, because I get some peace and quiet during the day.
Tbh, I'm a bit jealous. I want to live in those flats in between the bridge and my favourite pub, the Blue Anchor
I think they actually were planning to do that to oxford street but Westminster council said no?
I don't think it was the council, exactly, but more local businesses and residents. As the council says [here](https://www.westminster.gov.uk/news/update-plans-oxford-street/faqs), "**Previous attempts to pedestrianise Oxford Street have met significant opposition** and we have considered the concerns raised about the potential impact on public transport, traffic diversions and disabled access in the area." At the moment they have just consulted on a [£90m scheme](https://www.oxfordstreetprogramme.co.uk/) to make lots of changes including more direct vehicles routes in the surrounding area, increasing footway space in some places, reducing the width of the carriageway, allowing two-way traffic along the whole street, changing the direction of traffic in various surrounding streets, changing where vehicles can turn and not turn, adding Sunday to the days when certain parts of the street are restricted to buses, taxis and cycles, changing the portions of the street along which this applies, reducing unnecessary road markings, removing some bus stops, adding other bus stops, changing bus routes, removing medians, islands and bus laybys, raising the level of the road at pedestrian crossings, better signage, adding trees, seating and cycle lanes, new traffic signals and crossings, making some side streets into cul-de-sacs, "amenity spaces", etc. The main idea is to [relieve crowding and increase safety](https://www.oxfordstreetprogramme.co.uk/oxford-circus/). The proposals have received support from "two-thirds of residents, visitors and businesses" so are going ahead. One interesting thing is how many times Sadiq Khan has been asked about progress on his manifesto commitment to pedestrianise the street (previous mayors have also been asked about their plans to do the same): https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/pedestrianisation-oxford-street-3
All of westminster to waterloo should be pedestrianised.
They already tried with oxford Street a few years ago. The rich people in their lambos rejected it.
Oxford street and Soho not being pedestrianised is absolute insanity
How do they do deliveries under those conditions?
Like other pedestrianised zones, you give delivery vehicles access at specific times of the day.
In the NL, they frequently use roadblocks (iron polls) that can be retracted into the ground. Pedestrian zones that allow for vehicle access are pretty common all over mainland Europe, now
Yes please, but make all tube stations wheelchair accessible
>make all tube stations wheelchair accessible I love the energy, but it has to be acknowledged that making the entire legacy tube network wheelchair accessible is an absolute *nightmare* of an engineering job. There is some low hanging fruit out there to get you started to be sure, but overall it will likely be some combination of slow to happen, *very* expensive and very disruptive, especially if we want a proper job done of it. Which makes the decision to build the Crossrail without full level boarding all the way along even more disgusting, as it needlessly added to an already daunting amount of work that as far as I am concerned *needs* to be done. I am 100% down, as far as I am concerned it needs to be done and will be worth it in the end, but it definitely won't be cheap, easy, or as quick as anyone would ideally like it to be.
I had no idea! What a disaster and a disgrace that crossrail isn’t accessible.
Don’t get me started on that. I’m a powerchair user and already 2 lawsuits in, it’s a bloody nightmare.
Crossrail has a few odd decisions when it comes to it's layout. Only a single regular entrance to the station in a part of the city that is growing is strange. But with the trains not being all level boarding, isn't that just a legacy of having multiple train classes stopping at shared platforms? There's a similar issue on the Overground, that should be level boarding on all the new platforms that were put in when it was being rebuilt. I worry that there'll be future funding issues for TfL due to the fare freeze, but we'll have a massive fare hike in the near future. Sorry this is a bit meandering.
Who cares, thoughts meander, James Joyce had a career boost from it and I'd rather read your thoughts (though from my perspective that's not much of a compliment). I'm disappointed the amount invested in renaming stations like Windrush etc, which although I like the idea, I think it's less helpful than pushing those same resources towards actual transport changes, but then I think Khan is spending too much on enhancing his profile rather than improving things. To be clear I was interested in your points and prefer meandering (with exception of Ulyssess although it does have some funny bits). I'm not even in London anymore but some part of me still feels I am.
And free or at least very cheap.
Free? For everyone?
None of this is going to happen so why not.
And free snacks and phone chargers while we’re at it
Yeahs they can’t even get rid of fake chocolate stores so no chance this or anything else is going to happen.
The gov doesn’t care if they’re laundering money they’re bringing in enough taxes for them to turn a blind eye.
They don’t pay taxes or council rates
Lol sure thing
I think it would cause a lot of bus problems. A really huge amount of buses go through that area
Main roads would of course be open to busses only. And deliveries would take place at designated hours in the early morning- the city still has to function. But the principle of the city being for people, not their cars should appeal to everyone... especially anyone who experienced the joys of Soho during lockdown.
As someone who works there I'd like that a lot - though I do wonder even with buses only how pedestrian friendly it would be.
I imagine you would make a dedicated bus lane down the middle of the road. Maybe, with more room, nicer bus shelters/stops. Buses would be easier to manage as schedules would be much more predictable.
It's not only deliveries though. Contractors need to be able to get to the places with equipment. Plumbing/electrical issues are not something that happens only during designated hours as well as on site equipment breakdowns etc. As you have said - city still has to function and businesses too. No restaurant/office will agree to cease functioning for a day due to sewers flood or lack of electricity and just patiently wait until 2am so contractor can come on site and fix the issue. Not many contractors willing to do this kind of thing between 2 and 4am too. As much as I do agree that private cars are not necessary in areas like Soho I still think it is not realistic to completely block automotive movement there because of the above.
Speaking of deliveries, this area includes the Portland Hospital for Women and Children. I'd rather not give birth on the escalator at Warren St because I couldn't get a cab to labour ward!
pedestrianised cities and areas normally keep bus and taxi lanes and access for hospitals available.
I live and work in a pedestrianised center in Ghent and it's pretty easy. You just have companies able to give permission for technicians and the like (by registering their license plate online) and your problem is solved. Taxis, buses and trams are the only ones with regular access to the roads. Emergency services as well ofc. I've got to say there was a lot of pushback when they implemented it but it's been an absolute joy and now I hate going to cities without a pedestrianized city center.
What about tradesman that work normal hours and someone needs their boiler fixed? What about emergency vehicles? What about black cabs that make almost all their money driving too and from this area? What about construction that needs deliveries all day long?
The same way pedestrian only areas work everywhere else - access only but no through route
I'm not sure you guys quite understand how big this area is. Apart from the anomaly of Venice, the largest pedestrian only area in Europe is in Brussels and it's a tiny fraction of this size, and it still allows taxis and residents cars.
Yeah they could pedestrianise smaller roads and inbetweens, but leave a few major 'through roads', it could work great as a 'cluster' of pedestrian zones. Each bridge should ideally connect in some way to a road that leaves central London to the north. And the Strand, to cross it east-west. Creating a 'north bank' along Embankment with things like the South Bank has would be huge, too, although harder to do. Although if they pedestrianise, ban those stupid overpriced LED-lit up tricycle guys that go around all day offering 'rides' for extortionate prices
"Boilers broken?" "Yes I'm 86 years old, it's winter you know" "I'd love to come and help you darling, but some smug prick on Reddit thought we should pedestrianise Central London" "Ooo but it's very cold". "Well I'll tell you what, I'll be round at 3am, I'll knock loud, make sure you've got your hearing aids in, and if you haven't died of exposure I'll get your boiler fixed. Mind you if I can't get it done by 5 you're in trouble, I'll have to be out of the city by then".
That'll teach her to be old and live in Central London. According to OP you either need to be able to walk/cycle for a mile, have easy acess to a tube station or get fucked
The place already has minimal traffic. There are very few private vehicles already, the vast majority of the vehicles are private hire vehicles, taxis, delivery vehicles and public service vehicles. Any more restrictions than there are today might seem like a nice idea but it would cause all kinds of problems, not least a huge headache for anyone that actually relies on the area for their day to day business. Some ideas are nice, but some are unrealistic and take things too far. People also don't understand the impacts things like this have on other regions. For example with the pedestrianisation of Aldwych, the number 6 bus now no longer serves Soho at all, so one of the invisible costs of having an extra outdoor space there was that everyone up the bus route lost a busy and crucial connection to the city centre.
That blue circle encompasses one of the most trafficked roads in Europe lol
Yeah, the Euston Road is the north border of the congestion zone. It carries all the traffic that's avoiding and circumnavigating the zone. What do you expect to happen when you implement traffic displacing measures? Lol. You displace it!
Sorry, tldr. It's not about minimal traffic, it's about how much road space is reserved to pedestrians imho.
As a tradesman you can sod right off with your early morning deliveries. I'm up at the crack of dawn already. Now I've got to get up earlier. No thanks.
Do you have any idea the amount of freight that goes into London on a daily basis? And why should truck drivers change their lives, waking up at 2am, seeing their families less when they already work 50-60 hours a week and weekends? As the working class, we already have a crap existence, living on the fringes of this city and now we’re banished to the night??
And deliveries. And construction, shop fitting, maintenance. Could come up with some sort of custom system for this but gonna be hard
It wouldn’t be custom, given so many other European cities have low traffic zones at their centre.
Was thinking more dedicated delivery so if you had to deliver or work in that area special vehicles would do final stage in the demarcated zones
People forget traders need access to Dixons!
You need cabs too. The elderly and pregnant, infants can’t be expected to only use public transport all of the time.
Or anyone who's disabled and doesn't/can't drive
Also how would you do deliveries to the shops, offices, building sites..... You can't just supply them between 11PM-7AM. As there will be nobody there to take in the deliveries and there isnt enough space on a building site to store all of the materials that they would need. If you have an emergency plumbing problem. You can't have the plumber bring a new toilet to the site by tube.
I'm all for reducing single occupancy private vehicles from central and making certain streets entirely vehicle-free (looking at you in particular Oxford Street), but carte blanche pedestrianisation of such a large area has more downsides than people initially imagine: * St. Bart's and Great Ormond Street hospitals would be inaccessible by road. * Deliveries to shops, restaurants and offices could no longer be in the same bulk as now - would have to be split into much smaller cargo bike-sized deliveries (meaning less selection and higher prices for customers). * Construction and trades severely affected by lack of vehicle access to sites. * [Key Bus routes](https://content.tfl.gov.uk/bus-route-maps/key-bus-routes-in-central-london.pdf) would be severely impacted. * Park Lane as the main North-South route bypassing the CCZ to the west would be unavailable forcing more traffic into already congested Chelsea, Kensington and Paddington. * People do live in the highlighted area, some of whom will be Disabled, old or both. Lack of a taxi or dial-a-ride option from immediately outside their home would create even further accessibility barriers for them.
It would be more realistic to pedestrianise a few individual streets for sure. While, as a disabled person I don’t like people using disabled people as a monolith in arguments about traffic and road use etc (vehicles create accessibility barriers of their own, anyway), especially when they don’t particularly give a shit about any issues disabled people face in any other context, pedestrianising huge swathes of cities like this isn’t practical. You could have rolling pedestrian zones across this area and allow emergency vehicle access, deliveries between 5-7am, etc, like most pedestrianised city areas do.
True, disabilities come in many forms and Disabled people are often a side consideration (if considered at all). However, I am speaking about disability with some experience, having a close Disabled relative live with me at weekends. The problem with 5-7am deliveries is on paper that sounds all well and good. However, [NIMBY-ism is rife](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66384456). A 5am delivery is going to create complaints, meaning later delivery times and all bunched in a new, say, pre-8am window. Not forgetting we would have more delivery drivers, depot workers and shop/restaurant/maintenance workers all being asked to work at unsociable hours compared to what we have now. Agree with you that large-scale road closures are not practical in a city. Certain streets or clusters could be pedestrianised to create destinations in their own right, somewhat like Carnaby Street.
Pedestrianised areas usually allow deliveries by van.
Or lorry, just at night. But we should keep in mind, not every small business can afford to have staff to take deliveries at night.
Also the cost of delivery would rise up significantly as most drivers would have to change their work patterns to night shifts only.
Or stop disabled people outside the area getting to the hospitals, or going to work etc. Before anyone pipes up that they can use public transport, remember not all disabled people can.
Restricting private vehicles would already make a huge difference. I'm from Germany, where most city centres are pedestrianised, and there are exceptions for deliveries to shops etc. That's probably the most common system in other European countries as well.
Totally agree, plus there are plenty of private doctors in the area, which you couldn’t get using a taxi if something urgent. As the relatively new driver, I tried to drive to this area a couple of times - I was always late to my appointments, looking for a place to park. I was always parking in awkward places fearing to get a fine and spent a fortune on parking fees. So, after a couple times I stopped doing this and parking outside this circle. I confirm this area is hostile for private cars.
I'd just like to echo the part about the hospitals not being accessible. I deliver vital oxygen in bulk in a large vehicle into both of theses. This policy would cause deaths.
Use a cargo bike, innit? /s Yes, there are some eco delivery options for small scale, non-time critical items. But as you've highlighted, there's so much more to keeping a running a city than is immediately obvious. Bulk/scale is cheaper and actually more environmentally-friendly (fewer journeys) for everyone.
The most logical answer, thank you.
Construction would be a nightmare. Refuse collection. Essentially anything that involves moving large heavy stuff would be difficult/expensive, including any sort of repair or consulting works involving heavy/specialist tools.
The 5 major hospitals in that area might have a few objections. Maybe just fly the patients in by drone?
The patients can just walk in. What, are their legs broken?
i get it from covent-soho…but St.Pancras gets loads of international/national travel which would make it hard for people to get in and out
The map has decided for some reason to label that bit of Bloomsbury as St Pancras, St Pancras station is actually just above the blue line, it's on on Euston road (which I'm assuming would remain a trafficed roadway. The encircled area is all pretty much already congestion charge, and doesn't get overmuch private road vehicles anyway.
Loool clueless people come up with ridiculous ideas. I work in events and do you realise how many events go on in central London everyday that all need trucks and vans to be able to get to the venues and unload and load, so we’ll just completely shut events in central London down just so pedestrians can walk in the roads lol
Disagree, no other city on the planet has a pedestrian zone anywhere remotely close to this size, even the most anti car places in the world. edit: Tbh I find the map used actually misleading in size to anyone who isn't good with London maps. It only shows main roads so probably 90% of them are removed which makes the area look tiny compared to how big it actually is. To walk the perimeter of OPs pedestrian zone would take about 4 HOURS. It's a bit arbirtary too since it even covers the west ring road/congestion charge boundary too so it would be hard for vehicles to even go around it, and a bunch of it has no shops or similar places on. Looks like they just drew a big circle around central London without much thought. To be "realistic" the best plan will always be to just simply pedestrianise the West End, which includes Soho, Covernt Garden, and Leicester Square, and only like on weekends(11am-10pm) to start with. Outline shown here - https://i.imgur.com/m9Hvu78.png It's still a massive area despite being like 10x smaller. It'll still be probably 20x bigger than any other city pedestrian area in the UK and it's the densest part of the city for bars, restraunts, cafes, shops, and general entertainment venues including most of our theatres. The 2 green roads are just the main 2 roads which any bus that uses them can continue to do so. If they have to then blue badge and maybe taxis can enter too BUT unlike buses they can't pass through, they'd have to go back the way they went in AND the entire area will be pedestrian priority so they'd probably be going walking speed through much of soho. Deliveries can still be made on weekdays or between 10pm-11am on weekends. Not as much as what you wanted but it would still be one of the best things to ever happen to london. It's still a huge area where you could easily spend 2 hours walking around without backtracking, thats not exactly small is it? People will be much more concentrated too so the whole area will feel much more lively. Wont happen though since it's in Westminster, the council which seemingly will be terrible no matter if Labour or Conservative control it. Just needs to happen ONCE though and I think it'll be such a crazy huge sucess that they wont be able to go back.
This makes a LOT more sense than the OPs map. I've actually driven many of these roads, and some are insanely busy. Your map misses most of these out - the roads that make up the edges are all very busy. You've covered deliveries. The green roads might need to allow a bit more than you've mentioned, but maybe limit them to electric vehicles only and no private vehicles
We need buses lool
Typical Reddit delusional post.
Bro you just don’t get it, I have a little downtown area in my tiny city with no cars and it’s so easy, just do the same thing but bigger. I smoked a bowl and thought about it all night bro and my dad worked in finance I know what I’m talking about, it’ll work out
trust me bro...
I don't know when Reddit became filled with moronic anti-car, ultra-urbanist ideologues who glorify anything, no matter how impractical, expensive, or unpopular, as long as it hinders automobiles and the people who use them (aka everyone). Even the less radical types who coom for trains or whatever fall into this same hole, in their minds cars are evil and the less of them there are in the world, the better. Practicality, cost, or the will of the majority who overwhelmingly see cars as brilliant tools mean nothing to them. Regardless, I wish it weren't the case.
What about all the embassies and high commissions in the area. For security reasons I can’t imagine Ambassadors etc. taking public transport or their guests! Ultimately, I hate this idea as someone who is disabled and dependent on my children dropping me off and picking me up!
Completely brain dead idea. Not practical in a thousand different ways, as others have spelled out. I thought Reddit had more intelligent people on it but I was clearly mistaken.
No, it would kill the area in terms of nightlife as we couldn’t get a cab home. I’m not a driver, but for it to work we’d need 24/7 trains and underground.
As a pedestrian, I love the idea. As someone who works in the area and needs things delivered to do my job, I hate the idea!
Congestion would build up even more in less affluent areas around London
This, even if you pedestrianised a tiny area of london, that traffic doesn't just dissappear it gets displaced into outer areas.
Not to mention that a lot of people would just drive to the blue line, then walk. That would make parking horrific
This is probably a popular idea here on r/london but not in real life.
How the fuck would businesses and hotels get any supplies delivered?
How are thousands of restaurants and commercial places going to get their daily stocks and supplies?
This is really bloody stupid. I mean nice idea we all like pedestrian zones but in reality this is a huge area, with tons of bus routes, loads of shops and businesses that need deliveries, lots of hotels bars and restaurants that tourists want to visit in taxis etc etc.
As a engineer that works in London, you'll never have anything fixed / installed / delivered again and if you do expect to be paying 4 x the cost minimum. Most guys I know don't like working in London even if we can park directly outside the block we're working in. Wouldn't stand a chance if I was asked to lug my gear 20 minutes down the road.. 😂😂😂
Appreciate the idea but Londons just too big, having to only walk or cycle if I wanna get down Oxford st to make a quick trip overground? No bueno. What about ambulances, delivery, police, its a huge area. It's practical to do some sections but not this.
How would say a repair man with van full of tools repair said area?
Well, you should take into consideration buses, ambulances, police cars, deliveries and much more
Impossible. Too big to make it work.
Make train prices affordable like in Europe. A return train shouldn't be 2-3 euros in Madrid and 15 odd quid in London. Shouldn't cost 60 quid for a family to travel about london. Then I'd support this.
what costs 15 quid in london ? that’s the literal max fare you can pay in a day IIRC, normally tube is a few £ per trip
The most stupid idea….i am sure this person doesn’t work…
The tourist industry would lose millions as none of the hop on hop off bus routes would work.
How the fuck do you think freight gets into this area? By magic? Ffs. 😂😂😂
Getting around in London is hard enough. No thanks
I'm dead against it. People forget that traders need access to Dixons.
They do say it'll be good for people in wheeeeeelchairs
Just use the people in wheelchairs to make the deliveries to Dixons
Isn't that only in Norwich?
Completely insane.
Total lunacy, but not surprising the anti car wetwipes on reddit who never learnt to drive are lapping it up
The statement that "single occupancy cars don't even need to be there" is one I'd mostly agree with. But not all traffic is single occupancy cars. I could imagine the city functioning mostly ok if most private cars were banned, but there would still need to be streets open to buses, deliveries, and cabs.
That's cute. Did you forget freight exists?
Bit of an accessibility nightmare.
This is just so stupid
Imagine getting out of a taxi with suitcases and you’ve got a half mile walk. Might be a little too ambitious.
Soho was pedestrianised during covid with outdoor dining and it was great.
Yeah in one area like that it could work, but this OP proposal covers a pretty much all of zone 1. The tube is great but disabled access isn't good enough (yet) for this to be even slightly viable.
Well central London isn’t just soho and the west end.
Daft
so what about people with disabilities/mobility issues? They can’t go to Central London now because they are ‘personal single use car drivers’?
The anti-car crowd always forget that disabled people exist. London's transport network's accessibility looks good from an outside point of view, but as a disabled person, it's... not great.
What about the businesses that need products/items delivered daily? They just walk 20 times back and forth a mile every day?
No people live in that area and need their cars to go out of London.
Cool I guess the restaurants will just wheelbarrow their fish in.
In cities that have done this (like Florence) they allow delivery vans, either at night or on certain side roads. It's not really a problem there
"Certain side roads". As is already the case in significant amounts of that area. There are already ample amounts of pedestrianised areas in that region. The city still needs to be able to move efficiently. In some areas suited to it, it makes sense. In many areas, you'd not see the space utilised in the way envisaged, meaning a wasteful infrastructure outlay. There are also other invisible costs. By having more pedestrian space you also have more space you need to police and maintain to a higher standard. So the long term financing and management also needs to be considered. It's all good and well having some nice additions to public furniture, but more public furniture also means more damage, vandalism and cleaning to deal with on an ongoing basis. Roads don't need anywhere near the same level of ongoing maintenance.
Do you realize how small the pedestrian area of Florence is compared to the area you are proposing? Lmao
Maybe we can use wheel barrels to deliver goods to the shops, restaurants, hotels, etc. in the area.
Idiocy.
Tell everyone inside it aswell to not have any building works etc done too then.
Nice utopia in theory but would be ridiculous in practice. This is a major global hub and the business people and tourists taxiing around central London play a major part in keeping this city relevant. If you start making London anti-business (as already seen with the exodus of companies from the LSEG) and not tourist-friendly then it stops working imo.
Soho, yes. Parts of Covent Garden and the theatre district, also yes. But that whole area is excessive. At the very least, electric taxis and buses would need arteries cutting through, to get people from place to place with luggage, pushchairs and other things that don't work on the tube at rush hour.
Delivery and work vechicles still need to get there. The city runs on things being delivered constantly. You couldn't even maintain the buildings let alone finish the ones under construction in that scenario. I'm in favour of reducing/removing single occupant vechicles and pedestrianizing where possible, but people seem to forget most of the things they need come via road.
Ridiculous and impractical.
Yeah. Close all the shops and pubs cos they don’t need deliveries anyway.
No thanks never will work
Totally ignoring disabled people and those like me with restricted mobility. We need vehicles to get around - either our own cars, or public transport, so you are making a huge part of London inaccessible to the likes of me.
Shit?
A well meaning idea but very little thought applied: How do businesses and houses get deliveries? What If I'm moving into the area, I have to lug my possessions through the streets to my new place? All local business suddenly move out of this area due to lack of roads meaning those that live in the area now have to walk 20 minutes to find a shop/pub etc or even transport to work.
How would you build anything, how would you deliver anything, not everyone is able to walk those distances, it’s nonsensical Soho ✅ Covent Garden ✅ The rest ❌
I'd love the idea but people live there. And need deliveries and plumbers and carpenters etc. Who need to drive vans. It's really not that simple.
Otherwise known as "fuck off, disabled people." (Completely pedestrianised would exclude buses and taxis, and cars driven by the disabled people who live there, and nope, "use a wheelchair" isn't a gotcha answer).
What shall we do about delivering…oh I don’t know …everything….to where it needs to go?
Ever heard of traffic displacement? Where does all the traffic that needs to go through central london go? Oh that's right to the outer more poorer boroughs conjesting them further..
I think you just pushed all the traffic into the only areas of central London that still have any kind of working class communities
How about no. Just use the pavements. You anti car people really want to destroy peoples businesses and livelihoods. If you hate cars so much move to the wilderness
As someone with a disability, this would make that whole area a no-go for me. I realise someone has mentioned making the stations wheelchair accessible, but I don’t use a wheelchair and there are a lot of people with disabilities who are in a similar situation to me.
Do you know how many conference centres there are inside this area. Do you know how many vans per day move through the capital containing events-based equipment? The last time you were in the Ballroom of a Hilton Hotel, how did the speakers, stage, dressing, set, projectors (most hotels have PJs in their main rooms) microphones, lighting etc, turn up by magic? Any venue inside that circle that runs ANY form of event will suffer and become more and more expensive if you ban, vehicles from this area. Ban TAXIs and UBER in this area between (9am-5pm), there are Buses and the Underground that single commuters can use rather than taking a TAXI or walk London is not that big! For some jobs in London I'm required to be there before public transport starts and I leave after the public transport options have ended.
That it's a bad idea.
Completely pedestrian would be an awful idea. Buses, taxis and trade need to get there. I do a fair bit of work in that area - how am I going to lug around 100+kg of equipment to client offices
Pray that your boiler doesn't pack up.
As if any of us live in that square
Completely pedestrianise this area except for: * Buses * Taxis * Residents * Services * Ambulances * Construction So basically just ban 30/40% more vehicles from this area making it even nicer for the mostly wealthy people that live there.
…and everyone else walking or cycling there.
Good luck getting a lift engineer there.
Monorail!
And close all bars and restaurants.
It depends on what ‘completely pedestrianise’ means. As long as you keep buses, taxis, Ubers, deliveries, tradespeople and emergency services, I’m all for it. The thing is I work in that area and it’s pretty much already like that, very few private cars around.
I like the idea of walkable streets, but there's one thing I've always found to be really stupid and short sighted about these ideas- It's that your electrician, or your plumber, your movers, your delivery guys, or even you yourself- anybody who needs to have something done that may have heavy equipment, or a lot of things to carry, or a limited amount of time to deliver your goods, is going to have to walk five streets from their van or lorry, carrying all their stuff the entire time. Not to mention some people living in the area will need their vehicles. It's a nice sounding idea, but blocking any large place off for vehicles entirely is not a well thought out one, I think.
How will shops get deliveries
too large of an area. would ruin a lot of commutes
Lol I would love parts to pedestrianise but that would be crazy. It's like 90 minutes+ to walk across this area. Take buses.
It breaks my heart to see once modern cities willingly step backwards like this.
Should FedEx, UPS etc use the tube to deliver 7.5 tonne worth of goods to Selfridges everyday then?
Sounds lovely, but what about deliveries and people who would need to take a car to this place? I'm a musician and wouldn't be able to play any gigs in the area because I couldn't get my rig there.
London construction is worth a lot of money and not just to men in suits, it also provides jobs to huge amounts of workers, constructions vehicles need access to London. I'm all for more pedestrianisation where it makes sense, but the above is one of many reasons I feel that would cause the cons to outweigh the pros.
'Completely pedestrianise this area' sounds like a Taskmaster task though?
Unfortunately I can’t see the person delivering a new bath/sofa/kitchen counter/etc being very willing to walk it ~1 mile to my fictional flat in Farringdon.
Much as I hate cars and I would love for this to be feasible I’d be concerned about the effect on businesses relying on deliveries, because there are a *lot* of restaurants and bars in that area, as well as lots of tourist attractions and retail space in general. If I saw a way of doing this that wouldn’t impact that I’d be in favour of it.
Anyone who says this is a good idea doesn't live in London or can't fucking drive.
Great idea. Luckily there’s no shops or anything that need constant deliverys in that area. Or any buildings that require any kind of building works pretty much constantly as all the buildings are so modern.
You'd need to figure out how access could be retained for delivery, emergency and utility vehicles and at what time. Some deliveries (maybe even most) could be done using a cargo bike but not all.
Lot of hotels in that area. Not practical, methinks.
Erm. How do businesses get deliveries? Or pedestrianise only between say 10am and 10pm?
Would absolutely kill me for work
Deliveries? Cabs? Public transport? Homes?
No thanks. That's what's the pavement is for
What do you mean by the cars ‘don’t need to be there?’ Imagine stocking all the shops on Oxford street by walking the pallets from Elephant and Castle 😂 Or getting a cab home from a night out in Soho, except the closest the driver can get is Waterloo. Or if you’re in an ambulance that has to go around a presumably super busy ring-road that cuts through Zone 2, instead of going across town? I’m a cyclist most of the time, but even I can tell this is nonsense! Sorry.
In theory that would put to stop any refurbs and construction
My kids disabled and lives in the middle of that area. I need to bring a car to the front door just to get him out, plus there’s the disabled transport to school and back.
Are u insane? How about people who work there not only day time but nights? I used to work in the night club in central london and bringing equipment to the club require me parking nearby after unloading gear. So anyone who hates cars that much - just go and live on an inhabited island. Londoners and central london need access on cars.
highly inconsiderate proposition
Yeah good luck waking up your neighbour at 4am to get your new sofa in
how would you get construction done there? how could all the shops get their stuff there? idiotic idea mate
In most cases, pedestrianised areas do not exclude vehicles used for emergency services and vehicles used for deliveries and/or construction etc. They only exclude people using personal vehicles.
How much of traffic in that area is people using their personal vehicles for personal things though? I mean, driving through central London looks kinda hellish. If you drew up a list of approved reasons to drive in central London and then banned everyone driven there for other reasons... how much traffic would you actually cut? There are loads of buses (including tour buses) and taxis in that area, then you have the commercial deliveries... how much other traffic is really left?
Yes and Ho!
Pedestrianise more roads but I don’t think you can cut out a complete area.
Traffic displacement, this will just increase traffic on surrounding roads.