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Question with respect. Why did “black brown people of colour and indigenous people” which are race categorisations get included in a sexuality categorisation / flag?
Because the whole point of intersectional politics is to divide people into identity groups instead of individuals. It’s easier to create voting blocks this way
Edit
It’s also facilitated a paradigm shift away from the struggles of the working class against the owners of means of production, rich vs poor to black be white, gay vs straight, the disabled and their “allies” against the “Ableists”
Unfortunately, as a society we have fallen for it hook line and sinker. Does anyone really believe Sadiq Khan is motivated to put these flags up out of genuine love for the LGBT community or could there be other motives.
Dude when I saw black and brown people on the flag I was so confused we don’t ask for that(I don’t speak for all of us but still that the general consensus)
To be honest, I agree this is the intent of lefty politicians like Khan but I suspect that, really, the black and brown were added by some woke dipshit without a thought about dividing people.
Posturing and showing how kind and progressive and non racist they are.
"Daniel Quasar is an American artist and graphic designer, known for their[a] design of the Progress Pride flag, a variation of the rainbow pride flag that incorporates additional colors to explicitly represent trans people and LGBTQ+ people of color." - [wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Quasar)
I'm guessing Quesar saw or felt that even within the LGBT+ community not everyone felt represented. Racism and transmisia within LGBT+ groups can leave individuals without an understanding community to access, despite a lot of progress in terms of activism, visibility and culture stemming from these minorities. The black stripe was included as a memoriam to those who died during the Aids Crisis.
There are many many 'pride' flags people can access to express themselves or show their sypport. Some people feel the Progress flag is more inclusive and outright supportive of LGBTQ+ people including minorities within a minority and is slowly becoming as common if not more common than the Rainbow Flag, which itself was popularised during the hippie movement after a prominent gay man was assassinated. The rainbow flag has evolved to symbolise unity and has been incorporated by various organisations for various means, it's links to the LGBTQ+ community are easily dismissed, the Progress Flag is unmistakably supportive of all LGBTQ+ people, hence a lot of outrage you might read about it. Adding aids victims, BIPOC and trans representation to the flag has somehow made it ugly and takes away from the more 'socially valid' LGBTQ+ people.
Lastly, the very nature of the question you ask is a large reason of why the flag and what it represents has come to prominence. In the UK (the flag is not UK-specific) we've obviously made great strides towards progress and acceptance for all people...in broad wider public society. But elements of bigotry still permeates our institutions, leaderships and citizens. Black men expressing their homosexuality can be met with revulsion, black lesbians are challenged for being trans women in public bathrooms, the lessons of a plague exponentially exasperated by ignorance and bigotry are long forgotten, and let's not even talk about the so-called 'transgender debate' and the so-called 'culture wars'. Having a flag that encourages people to ask why such overt inclusion is necessary, is another step towards progress and acceptance that many people deserve.
I don't think it's ugly, I just preferred the rainbow one which encompassed everyone in the first place. Perhaps individual flags as bunting would look more festive.
I think it should just go back to being a rainbow flag, which by its definition encompasses all sexualities. Every sub group needing their own bit of the flag is just messy.
The rainbow flag was a design masterpiece - the latest incarnation is confusing and aesthetically bad and probably generates more resentment than good will, unfortunately
I support the flying of the old flag and the new flag whichever you prefer, but it's a stretch to call the old flag - i.e. the 6 bands of colours - a design masterpiece. It's just 6 bands of the most famous colours in the right rainbow order. It's not even a bow shape or a even a bit curved. They should have done that, it would have been cool to see curved flags.
People don't even know their history, the 8 colour one is the original, it went down to 7 becasue of dye availability and then 6 to make it symmetrical. The original designer even calls the 6 colour flag the 'commercial' one.
There's also no centralized body, if you want to fly one that's bow shaped, do it!
Idk everyone, when I combined all my play doughs together I got a brown colour so something isn’t adding up 🤔
Maybe it could be a white flag, bc white encompasses all the colours like when you split it through a prism. It’ll save on colour ink bc that’s expensive, we gotta think about the environment here.
Also, let’s just skip ahead to the eventual final glorious form of the group name, let’s have it as ‘Alphabet’, that way we can include all the letters. No one should be excluded, and we could save on the + because all the letters are already mentioned in the alphabet.
^(Reposting this:)
The original flag already excluded nobody. Moreover, the rainbow design was also released into the public domain by its creator Gilbert Baker. The "progress pride" flag, in contrast, is *not* public domain - not only does its creator profit from all products sold that bear it, like stickers, t-shirts, the flags themselves, and so on, but his design incorporates and commercializes Baker's original public domain pride flag design AND the trans pride flag designed by Monica Helms, which they explicitly did not want.
Of course I believe the LGBT+ community should be inclusive of other intersectional marginalised groups. I feel that use of the "progress pride" flag implies that the traditional 6-stripe rainbow flag is only for cis white people, which it isn't, and that perception is contradictory to the aims of intersectionality.
[https://gaycitynews.com/we-need-walk-away-progress-profit-flag/](https://gaycitynews.com/we-need-walk-away-progress-profit-flag/)
Yep, when you move from the rainbow flag which included everyone, to changing it to specifically include others with changes, it just then leaves anything not now incorporated out. The rainbow flags whole point was inclusion of all types
I absolutely agree. The old flag was making sense. This new one is ugly as hell.
We need fewer flags and fewer barricades not more flags and more barricades.
Original flag represents rainbow = all the colours available under the sun.
There is no need adding extra stripes or shapes or circles.
Are intersex people actually a marginalised group that were seeking representation or was this just a bunch of annoying idiots sitting in a room trying to dream up more identities to shoehorn onto the flag?
Uh, yes they are, I have no idea what the other people replying to this are smoking. Probably making stuff up to justify hating trans people. It was added to the flag by Valentino Vecchietti of Intersex Equality Rights UK. Probably the main thing is that intersex people often face medically unnecessary surgeries to remove genitalia at birth (or young age) to make them conform more to male or female. There are no protections against this in UK law, despite research saying it causes both physical and psychological harm (pain, infertility, incontinence, depression etc) and the UN calling for measures to protect Intersex people from discrimination and abuse such as this.
This progressively changing flag also gives unnecessary room for interpretation. I can already imagine someone accidently flying an older flag which doesn't include some particular group and attracting unnecessary criticism from someone for it.
I do graphics for a non profit and that already happened to me, sort of. I used just a rainbow instead of this flag and got chewed out. 🙄 No matter how anyone feels about the new flag, it's a graphic designer's nightmare trying to incorporate it into any kind of branding.
The rainbow flag included everyone and was international. You can’t use this flag in Africa, India, etc., as the POC people there are not minorities, and there’s no representation for Asia. The jumble of gender identities and sexualities are confusing to everyone. It’s classic divide and rule. We should all be united under our old fully inclusive rainbow flag.
It stopped looking like a friendly and inclusive flag used to celebrate people and started looking like the type of authoritian regime flag you'd expect to see in some dystopian drama series.
This flag actively works against the interests of those it's supposed to represent, and was a really stupid idea.
It helps to see the Progress flag not as an identity flag, but as a statement flag. A statement that is relevant to the time in which it is flown.
The rainbow flag IS inclusive of every group individually represented on the Progress flag.
But certain groups have been forgotten, underrepresented, or are currently facing increased scrutiny and discrimination. Once those issues are addressed, the Progress flag may no longer be needed the way it is today.
You know LGBT people are 3X more likely to be homeless and 50% of trans people are unemployed, right? This mostly effecting non-white queer people, and especially non-white trans people as trans people are more likely to be BAME
Unfortunately, as we’ve seen with the recent pushback on transgender rights, it is too easy for people to exclude part of the LGBTQ+ community while claiming to be “allies.” The inclusive progress pride flag makes sure everyone knows that trans and intersex people are part of our community and we all stand up for each other’s rights.
But I don't understand why the rainbow flag isn't inclusive enough when the idea is that it's meant to show that sex, gender and identity are spectrum - hence all the colours of the rainbow
It was already inclusive enough before, and this is coming from a bisexual person. There are many people in the lgbt+ community who want it to return to the rainbow flag as it represents everyone and it was a beautiful flag and message. Now the message is still beautiful but the flag is ugly and feels excessive.
I’m bisexual and trans and much prefer the current one, so this is certainly one of those things where there’s differences of opinion inside the community. I never felt excluded by the rainbow one (and still don’t - I’m always happy to see it around), but I get an extra boost seeing that little trans portion of the flag. It erases any doubts about whether it’s a welcoming space for me. Sadly I’m not always sure if I, a trans person, am welcome in “LGBTQ ally” spaces unless it’s made explicit.
I'm a cis lesbian. I hate the so-called progress flag. I hate that it's not public domain. I hate the design. I hate that by trying to be more inclusive it becomes less inclusive. But most of all I hate that it's *necessary*. Which is why, even though I hate it, if I have a choice of which one to fly I'll pick the new one. Because the flag is supposed to be a symbol of inclusion - a sign that everyone is safe here - and it's not fair to let anyone wonder if that actually applies to them.
This right here. I’m trans and think the progress pride flag is aesthetically unpleasant.
But I want to make sure people KNOW they are included, so I fly multiple flags at once: trans, rainbow, bisexual, and asexual. I don’t have an intersex pride flag but I would fly it right alongside my other ones.
As a piece of graphic design the original flag is so much better. As a political statement the new flag (to me at least) seems more about dividing communities than uniting them. Instead of an all embracing, inclusive hug it says competing cliques, all vying for attention and resenting each other.
It doesn’t need a separate colour for black and brown folk. Having separate stripes to ‘include them’ ironically excludes them by suggesting they’re not part of the original rainbow?
There’s such a clusterfuck going on in this flag
Sexualities, vague “ethnicities” (“black”, “brown”), gender ideology, a freaking genetic condition (intersex), I mean wtf is going on
What exactly is _THE_ cause?
Because if we wanna get _REEEAL_ inclusive I can think of a whooooooooooooooooole lotta people/conditions that can be added. Many of them wayy more present in the global population that the purported 1.7% that intersex represents
It's because any time someone goes a step further everyone is too terrified to display any opposition for fear of being labelled a bigot. The result is this ridiculous flag.
Scientific studies showed 0.05%… but the intersex community said it was more likely to be 1.7%..
So we are in the realms of “I don’t believe the results of you methodically conducted study, so I’ll just tell you what I think!
I don’t believe for one minute that 1 in 58 people are intersex.
They are lumped in with brown I presume. There are no individual identities, only large homogenised groups that presumably all think and feel the same things
And what about ultraviolet, x-ray, and gamma? Indigo isn't included anyway apparently because of "dye issues" in the '70s but we all know they are being discriminated against.
Did the people who decided to include the brown and black stripes on the flag think that the colours on the previous flag represented skin colours? Like the blue was for LGBT smurfs or something?
Also who is deciding these changes?! Seems that everyone is opposed to the design change from the original?!
It’s so true that by including only specific people in the new flags, it’s excluding a whole bunch of others.
Go back to original flag, it’s inclusive of everyone
God damn I hate this bullshit that social media has caused
Londoners have nothing to do with this either way, and the people responsible don’t give a toss either, it’s purely political. Don’t make the mistake of thinking they care.
I remember a few years ago when the RAF aircraft squads flew past over London and they left the rainbow trails in the sky, that was a time when I really realised that the times of shame and hiding were over. I felt liberation, joy, and a sense of gratitude for this country.
My local city's town hall didn't even fly the Union flag on D-Day, they flew the Pride flag. It's utterly disgusting (The current flag itself and the act)
Reject modernity, embrace tradition 🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
But seriously this current trend of the overloaded flag needs to pass already it’s an eyesore and I love pride.
The flag was designed by Intersex Equality Rights UK, so take it up with them.
Being trans isn't a sexuality. Are you also a proponent of separating trans people?
>In the late 1970s, Harvey Milk – a member of the San Francisco Board of Supervisors and the first openly gay man elected to public office – asked his friend Gilbert Baker to design a symbol to represent (what was then referred to as) the gay community.
What mentions of the flag are you aware of to make sure a claim?
Sure, but now the colours mean specific things. The rainbow just means:
The flag was originally created with eight colors, but pink and turquoise were removed for production purposes, and since 1979 it has consisted of six colored stripes. It is most commonly flown with the red stripe on top, as the colors appear in a natural rainbow.[22] The colors were determined to symbolize:
red: life
orange: healing
yellow: sunlight
green: nature
blue: harmony/peace
purple/violet: spirit[23]
The color pink stood for sexuality and turquoise stood for art/magic.
[Wikipedia]
people are cynical about businesses flying pride flags but it is truly astonishing how acceptance of lgbt people has changed. Can you imagine any company putting up these signs of acceptance just a couple of decades ago?
My boyfriend works for a printing company and they were printing pride stuff for a coffee chain in London a couple of years ago. They were asked to ensure the sticker prints could "easily be removed again".
Says it all really.
It's more about the fact that those that oppose anything queer/lgbt+ do so by attempting to inflict shame on members of that community. Pride is the opposite of shame.
It originally started as a protest against being harmed by those that see being queer in whichever form as wrong. It's not so much about awareness for the most part, apart from signalling to a young queer person who might be feeling shame, that it's okay to be what you are.
Any further questions feel free.
It's really just about normalising different sexualities, we easily forget that it was literally illegal to have a homosexual relationship only 57 years ago, and gay marriage was only legalised 10 years ago.
Trans rights in the UK in particular are being significantly threatened right now. That ranges from getting the health care we need to transition and live our lives to being able to use bathrooms that align with our identities.
As for other identities, I think you would be surprised at the number of people who have been attacked, called a slur, or simply made to feel unwelcome for who they are. Acceptance for the community is still a struggle.
Always loved the open minded and accepting environment of london. There are moments I felt unsafe but I still loved the city whenever I travel there. Hope it keeps on being the cradle of love in uk alongside brighton. Also I feel the comments are slightly hateful towards inclusion of more changes to the flag. I feel Its good because everyone are represented in their own ways. And many people in our community and others are hating on representation of TQ+ community, I feel disheartened that people of diverse metropolis like london still aren't giving TQ+ community the love that they deserve.
Shame it seems there are so many vocal party poopers in the comments. I think it's a great time for the whole community to come together and celebrate being proud instead of ashamed, feeling welcome and free instead of being criminalised and punished for being who we are!
I love seeing those flags. There's a story to it and it celebrates all of us!
seriously though! I was never in a big city where queer pride was that openly displayed than in London. And I don‘t mean the flags. I mean gay couples openly kissing and cuddling, being loud and having fun in public. Queer waiters in a big chain being openly (very) queer. It was awesome and I was awestruck as well travelled Swiss! And no, Berlin does not take the cake on this one.
Two years ago I was there and got to witness the Pride parade. Was such a fantastic feeling seeing all those flags. Of course there are people opposed and many call it lip-service. But honestly, I think it's nice to know that being outwardly pro LGBTQ+ has become so important 🥰
They are with the regular rainbow flag, which serves to represeny every kind of queer person, which is why I find it redundant to add on more to the flag since, well, it already represents everyone :3
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Question with respect. Why did “black brown people of colour and indigenous people” which are race categorisations get included in a sexuality categorisation / flag?
Because the whole point of intersectional politics is to divide people into identity groups instead of individuals. It’s easier to create voting blocks this way Edit It’s also facilitated a paradigm shift away from the struggles of the working class against the owners of means of production, rich vs poor to black be white, gay vs straight, the disabled and their “allies” against the “Ableists” Unfortunately, as a society we have fallen for it hook line and sinker. Does anyone really believe Sadiq Khan is motivated to put these flags up out of genuine love for the LGBT community or could there be other motives.
Dude when I saw black and brown people on the flag I was so confused we don’t ask for that(I don’t speak for all of us but still that the general consensus)
Only about 200 people in the whole country asked for any of this.
this - create voting blocs and keep expanding them; turn the bloc into single issue voters and harvest their votes for generations ✅
To be honest, I agree this is the intent of lefty politicians like Khan but I suspect that, really, the black and brown were added by some woke dipshit without a thought about dividing people. Posturing and showing how kind and progressive and non racist they are.
2017. It's on the explainer you see in this very post. It was for people in the community that the organisers of an event felt were being overlooked.
Who are the indigenous people of the UK and why are they represented?
The Celts! Glad to see some Welsh representation finally
"Daniel Quasar is an American artist and graphic designer, known for their[a] design of the Progress Pride flag, a variation of the rainbow pride flag that incorporates additional colors to explicitly represent trans people and LGBTQ+ people of color." - [wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Quasar) I'm guessing Quesar saw or felt that even within the LGBT+ community not everyone felt represented. Racism and transmisia within LGBT+ groups can leave individuals without an understanding community to access, despite a lot of progress in terms of activism, visibility and culture stemming from these minorities. The black stripe was included as a memoriam to those who died during the Aids Crisis. There are many many 'pride' flags people can access to express themselves or show their sypport. Some people feel the Progress flag is more inclusive and outright supportive of LGBTQ+ people including minorities within a minority and is slowly becoming as common if not more common than the Rainbow Flag, which itself was popularised during the hippie movement after a prominent gay man was assassinated. The rainbow flag has evolved to symbolise unity and has been incorporated by various organisations for various means, it's links to the LGBTQ+ community are easily dismissed, the Progress Flag is unmistakably supportive of all LGBTQ+ people, hence a lot of outrage you might read about it. Adding aids victims, BIPOC and trans representation to the flag has somehow made it ugly and takes away from the more 'socially valid' LGBTQ+ people. Lastly, the very nature of the question you ask is a large reason of why the flag and what it represents has come to prominence. In the UK (the flag is not UK-specific) we've obviously made great strides towards progress and acceptance for all people...in broad wider public society. But elements of bigotry still permeates our institutions, leaderships and citizens. Black men expressing their homosexuality can be met with revulsion, black lesbians are challenged for being trans women in public bathrooms, the lessons of a plague exponentially exasperated by ignorance and bigotry are long forgotten, and let's not even talk about the so-called 'transgender debate' and the so-called 'culture wars'. Having a flag that encourages people to ask why such overt inclusion is necessary, is another step towards progress and acceptance that many people deserve.
Good question
I also feel like White people and East Asian people are being overlooked.
i love how everyone is just hating on the ugly flag
TMB - Mr May was right lmao
I don't think it's ugly, I just preferred the rainbow one which encompassed everyone in the first place. Perhaps individual flags as bunting would look more festive.
I agree, the rainbow makes more sense as it encompasses everyone, and individual flags would look nice
Conservatives don't like bright colors. They like red white and black.
huh? the tories are blue anyway
It's a reference to the Nazi flag.
oh my god of course it is i’m such an idiot
I think it should just go back to being a rainbow flag, which by its definition encompasses all sexualities. Every sub group needing their own bit of the flag is just messy.
The rainbow flag was a design masterpiece - the latest incarnation is confusing and aesthetically bad and probably generates more resentment than good will, unfortunately
I support the flying of the old flag and the new flag whichever you prefer, but it's a stretch to call the old flag - i.e. the 6 bands of colours - a design masterpiece. It's just 6 bands of the most famous colours in the right rainbow order. It's not even a bow shape or a even a bit curved. They should have done that, it would have been cool to see curved flags.
Less is more innit.
People don't even know their history, the 8 colour one is the original, it went down to 7 becasue of dye availability and then 6 to make it symmetrical. The original designer even calls the 6 colour flag the 'commercial' one. There's also no centralized body, if you want to fly one that's bow shaped, do it!
Idk everyone, when I combined all my play doughs together I got a brown colour so something isn’t adding up 🤔 Maybe it could be a white flag, bc white encompasses all the colours like when you split it through a prism. It’ll save on colour ink bc that’s expensive, we gotta think about the environment here. Also, let’s just skip ahead to the eventual final glorious form of the group name, let’s have it as ‘Alphabet’, that way we can include all the letters. No one should be excluded, and we could save on the + because all the letters are already mentioned in the alphabet.
^(Reposting this:) The original flag already excluded nobody. Moreover, the rainbow design was also released into the public domain by its creator Gilbert Baker. The "progress pride" flag, in contrast, is *not* public domain - not only does its creator profit from all products sold that bear it, like stickers, t-shirts, the flags themselves, and so on, but his design incorporates and commercializes Baker's original public domain pride flag design AND the trans pride flag designed by Monica Helms, which they explicitly did not want. Of course I believe the LGBT+ community should be inclusive of other intersectional marginalised groups. I feel that use of the "progress pride" flag implies that the traditional 6-stripe rainbow flag is only for cis white people, which it isn't, and that perception is contradictory to the aims of intersectionality. [https://gaycitynews.com/we-need-walk-away-progress-profit-flag/](https://gaycitynews.com/we-need-walk-away-progress-profit-flag/)
Ha, like the Aboriginal flag being owned by WAM clothing. Classic
Yep, when you move from the rainbow flag which included everyone, to changing it to specifically include others with changes, it just then leaves anything not now incorporated out. The rainbow flags whole point was inclusion of all types
I absolutely agree. The old flag was making sense. This new one is ugly as hell. We need fewer flags and fewer barricades not more flags and more barricades. Original flag represents rainbow = all the colours available under the sun. There is no need adding extra stripes or shapes or circles.
>less flags and less barricades Fewer!
Found Stannises Reddit account
What’s the circle for? First time I’ve seen it added to the flag, and I’m queer lol.
Intersex.
Are intersex people actually a marginalised group that were seeking representation or was this just a bunch of annoying idiots sitting in a room trying to dream up more identities to shoehorn onto the flag?
The latter
Uh, yes they are, I have no idea what the other people replying to this are smoking. Probably making stuff up to justify hating trans people. It was added to the flag by Valentino Vecchietti of Intersex Equality Rights UK. Probably the main thing is that intersex people often face medically unnecessary surgeries to remove genitalia at birth (or young age) to make them conform more to male or female. There are no protections against this in UK law, despite research saying it causes both physical and psychological harm (pain, infertility, incontinence, depression etc) and the UN calling for measures to protect Intersex people from discrimination and abuse such as this.
This progressively changing flag also gives unnecessary room for interpretation. I can already imagine someone accidently flying an older flag which doesn't include some particular group and attracting unnecessary criticism from someone for it.
I do graphics for a non profit and that already happened to me, sort of. I used just a rainbow instead of this flag and got chewed out. 🙄 No matter how anyone feels about the new flag, it's a graphic designer's nightmare trying to incorporate it into any kind of branding.
The rainbow flag included everyone and was international. You can’t use this flag in Africa, India, etc., as the POC people there are not minorities, and there’s no representation for Asia. The jumble of gender identities and sexualities are confusing to everyone. It’s classic divide and rule. We should all be united under our old fully inclusive rainbow flag.
It stopped looking like a friendly and inclusive flag used to celebrate people and started looking like the type of authoritian regime flag you'd expect to see in some dystopian drama series. This flag actively works against the interests of those it's supposed to represent, and was a really stupid idea.
It helps to see the Progress flag not as an identity flag, but as a statement flag. A statement that is relevant to the time in which it is flown. The rainbow flag IS inclusive of every group individually represented on the Progress flag. But certain groups have been forgotten, underrepresented, or are currently facing increased scrutiny and discrimination. Once those issues are addressed, the Progress flag may no longer be needed the way it is today.
[удалено]
Serious question: Who is forgotten, underrepresented, or currently facing increased scrutiny and discrimination?
You know LGBT people are 3X more likely to be homeless and 50% of trans people are unemployed, right? This mostly effecting non-white queer people, and especially non-white trans people as trans people are more likely to be BAME
LGBT people of colour, those we lost in the AIDs epidemic, transgender and non-binary people, intersex people.
The phrasing "it helps to" just sounds like an instruction to induce cognitive dissonance in oneself.
Okay.
Unfortunately, as we’ve seen with the recent pushback on transgender rights, it is too easy for people to exclude part of the LGBTQ+ community while claiming to be “allies.” The inclusive progress pride flag makes sure everyone knows that trans and intersex people are part of our community and we all stand up for each other’s rights.
But I don't understand why the rainbow flag isn't inclusive enough when the idea is that it's meant to show that sex, gender and identity are spectrum - hence all the colours of the rainbow
It was already inclusive enough before, and this is coming from a bisexual person. There are many people in the lgbt+ community who want it to return to the rainbow flag as it represents everyone and it was a beautiful flag and message. Now the message is still beautiful but the flag is ugly and feels excessive.
I’m bisexual and trans and much prefer the current one, so this is certainly one of those things where there’s differences of opinion inside the community. I never felt excluded by the rainbow one (and still don’t - I’m always happy to see it around), but I get an extra boost seeing that little trans portion of the flag. It erases any doubts about whether it’s a welcoming space for me. Sadly I’m not always sure if I, a trans person, am welcome in “LGBTQ ally” spaces unless it’s made explicit.
I'm a cis lesbian. I hate the so-called progress flag. I hate that it's not public domain. I hate the design. I hate that by trying to be more inclusive it becomes less inclusive. But most of all I hate that it's *necessary*. Which is why, even though I hate it, if I have a choice of which one to fly I'll pick the new one. Because the flag is supposed to be a symbol of inclusion - a sign that everyone is safe here - and it's not fair to let anyone wonder if that actually applies to them.
This right here. I’m trans and think the progress pride flag is aesthetically unpleasant. But I want to make sure people KNOW they are included, so I fly multiple flags at once: trans, rainbow, bisexual, and asexual. I don’t have an intersex pride flag but I would fly it right alongside my other ones.
As a piece of graphic design the original flag is so much better. As a political statement the new flag (to me at least) seems more about dividing communities than uniting them. Instead of an all embracing, inclusive hug it says competing cliques, all vying for attention and resenting each other.
You know the latest version has a second arrow coming in from the right side? I don't know what it's meant to represent because I don't care
That flag has become ugly as fuuuuck
Looks gay to me
its been getting out of hand
That's the most gay thing anyone could say ♥️
It doesn’t need a separate colour for black and brown folk. Having separate stripes to ‘include them’ ironically excludes them by suggesting they’re not part of the original rainbow?
yeah i find that a bit weird
There’s such a clusterfuck going on in this flag Sexualities, vague “ethnicities” (“black”, “brown”), gender ideology, a freaking genetic condition (intersex), I mean wtf is going on What exactly is _THE_ cause? Because if we wanna get _REEEAL_ inclusive I can think of a whooooooooooooooooole lotta people/conditions that can be added. Many of them wayy more present in the global population that the purported 1.7% that intersex represents
It's because any time someone goes a step further everyone is too terrified to display any opposition for fear of being labelled a bigot. The result is this ridiculous flag.
Almost like the flag is something of a microcosm.
It is completely absurd.
Scientific studies showed 0.05%… but the intersex community said it was more likely to be 1.7%.. So we are in the realms of “I don’t believe the results of you methodically conducted study, so I’ll just tell you what I think! I don’t believe for one minute that 1 in 58 people are intersex.
Asians just get nothing I guess
They are lumped in with brown I presume. There are no individual identities, only large homogenised groups that presumably all think and feel the same things
Is that not what the yellow stripe is for?
Indeed - everyone is a shade of brown. Pushing the narrative of separate colours does just that keeps us separate
Yes exactly
Think it needs more flags
A flying wheelchair in the middle
Politics aside, this is aesthetically repulsive
The flag has become very elaborate
Looking forward to it one day incorporating so many colours it turns white in the wind.
Personally I think those of us on the infrared spectrum should get some representation on the flag
And what about ultraviolet, x-ray, and gamma? Indigo isn't included anyway apparently because of "dye issues" in the '70s but we all know they are being discriminated against.
companies have to pay to use the original classic progress pride flag so they've turned to the new one with the intersex flag which is free
Did the people who decided to include the brown and black stripes on the flag think that the colours on the previous flag represented skin colours? Like the blue was for LGBT smurfs or something?
you know what every colour added together is? its white, just put a white flag or brown depending what colour theory you like
Please not the horrible brown colour you get by mixing all the plasticine!
Go back to the original flag.
Wait the flag got changed AGAIN? How did they manage to make it even uglier? Bring back the original flag!!
Also who is deciding these changes?! Seems that everyone is opposed to the design change from the original?! It’s so true that by including only specific people in the new flags, it’s excluding a whole bunch of others. Go back to original flag, it’s inclusive of everyone God damn I hate this bullshit that social media has caused
It's undemocratic and these unilateral decisions taken by god knows who, are just alienating garden variety gay folk.
As a lesbian I hate it, it’s just too much. Less is more.
Prides become a gimmick. Sad really considering people are still fighting for their lives.
It became a woke capitalism thing long ago.
The likes of Barclays and Lockheed Martin taking part in parades says it all
Wholeheartedly agree. Shameful
Over kill on the flags, someone put too many 0’s whilst ordering?
I don't think there is enough months in a year for all these flags.
Serious question what's the circle for?
[Intersex flag](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex_flag)! Here’s some info about [what intersex means](https://ihra.org.au/allies/)
Too much
Londoners have nothing to do with this either way, and the people responsible don’t give a toss either, it’s purely political. Don’t make the mistake of thinking they care.
Pride month in London means degrading the pride message of freedom of sexuality and equality using corporate ads...
The 2018 design is better.
Glad that LGBT is being supported. But Imo that's a bit too much bunting. Doesn't look good.
Gilbert Baker: “This flag represents everyone”. Everyone: “Yeah but what about us?”
I remember a few years ago when the RAF aircraft squads flew past over London and they left the rainbow trails in the sky, that was a time when I really realised that the times of shame and hiding were over. I felt liberation, joy, and a sense of gratitude for this country.
As a gay man I find it ugly and I would rather see the Union Jack only on the Oxford street
Thank you! My kind of guy. It seems cringe now every company has jumped on the band wagon
My local city's town hall didn't even fly the Union flag on D-Day, they flew the Pride flag. It's utterly disgusting (The current flag itself and the act)
Truly disgusted. Need new councillors who love their country
To me it feels like pride month is every month tbh.
Reject modernity, embrace tradition 🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈 But seriously this current trend of the overloaded flag needs to pass already it’s an eyesore and I love pride.
Imho having all these separate flags appear more divisive than inclusive. But that's just me
Londoners don't have a choice over the display of the flags.
We do, we didn't vote in Susan hall for a start.
Flag peaked at 2017. Now its so ugly and not so cohesive
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😂
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The flag was designed by Intersex Equality Rights UK, so take it up with them. Being trans isn't a sexuality. Are you also a proponent of separating trans people?
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Holy shit is that how many numbers and letters its up to now? fuck me i kinda get why the conservitives take the piss out of us 🤣
What do you mean "never included any specific sexualities or genders or anything"?
The colours of the original pride flag meant stuff like " hope" and "love". There was no mention that the rainbow meant gay and nothing else.
>In the late 1970s, Harvey Milk – a member of the San Francisco Board of Supervisors and the first openly gay man elected to public office – asked his friend Gilbert Baker to design a symbol to represent (what was then referred to as) the gay community. What mentions of the flag are you aware of to make sure a claim?
Sure, but now the colours mean specific things. The rainbow just means: The flag was originally created with eight colors, but pink and turquoise were removed for production purposes, and since 1979 it has consisted of six colored stripes. It is most commonly flown with the red stripe on top, as the colors appear in a natural rainbow.[22] The colors were determined to symbolize: red: life orange: healing yellow: sunlight green: nature blue: harmony/peace purple/violet: spirit[23] The color pink stood for sexuality and turquoise stood for art/magic. [Wikipedia]
doing way too much. they need to chill with the agenda lol
Too many morons + Too much money
Needs a dragon on it.
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Wow thank you massive corporations. You must really care about minorities!
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Nah it looks good.
people are cynical about businesses flying pride flags but it is truly astonishing how acceptance of lgbt people has changed. Can you imagine any company putting up these signs of acceptance just a couple of decades ago?
It’s not acceptance, it’s 💰
That ESG score ain't gonna go up on its own
My boyfriend works for a printing company and they were printing pride stuff for a coffee chain in London a couple of years ago. They were asked to ensure the sticker prints could "easily be removed again". Says it all really.
What’s your point, do we leave Christmas decorations up all year?
Well if the plan was to put it up specifically for pride month that's expected.
What are you on about? Those would be temp stickers for the month. They do this with any holiday/temp celebration.
Why not put the British flag up. It looks so much better.
Well this thread is going predictably well 🫠
The lastest iteration of the pride flag is just straight up ugly, stick with a rainbow and be done
What a waste of money lmao
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Pardon for sounding ignorant, what sort of awareness is this movement trying to raise? Are there any specific areas that are lacking?
It's more about the fact that those that oppose anything queer/lgbt+ do so by attempting to inflict shame on members of that community. Pride is the opposite of shame. It originally started as a protest against being harmed by those that see being queer in whichever form as wrong. It's not so much about awareness for the most part, apart from signalling to a young queer person who might be feeling shame, that it's okay to be what you are. Any further questions feel free.
It's really just about normalising different sexualities, we easily forget that it was literally illegal to have a homosexual relationship only 57 years ago, and gay marriage was only legalised 10 years ago.
Trans rights in the UK in particular are being significantly threatened right now. That ranges from getting the health care we need to transition and live our lives to being able to use bathrooms that align with our identities. As for other identities, I think you would be surprised at the number of people who have been attacked, called a slur, or simply made to feel unwelcome for who they are. Acceptance for the community is still a struggle.
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That's gay
Always loved the open minded and accepting environment of london. There are moments I felt unsafe but I still loved the city whenever I travel there. Hope it keeps on being the cradle of love in uk alongside brighton. Also I feel the comments are slightly hateful towards inclusion of more changes to the flag. I feel Its good because everyone are represented in their own ways. And many people in our community and others are hating on representation of TQ+ community, I feel disheartened that people of diverse metropolis like london still aren't giving TQ+ community the love that they deserve.
The new flag is gay
Looks like a another bad star wars series from disney plus
Looks ridiculous and those explanations don’t seem entirely accurate.
Personally I prefer seeing the Union Jack but I don’t mind it.
Who leads this community and designs the flag
I’m all for the cause but I’ll be damned if that ain’t one ugly ass flag.
The best month of the year 🥳
We must secure the existence of the LGBTQIAZX+ community and a future for queer non gender conforming kids.
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Yeah they literally had to fire the union jack out of a cannon to put this up. . RIP
can't it js be a rainbow?
Shame it seems there are so many vocal party poopers in the comments. I think it's a great time for the whole community to come together and celebrate being proud instead of ashamed, feeling welcome and free instead of being criminalised and punished for being who we are! I love seeing those flags. There's a story to it and it celebrates all of us!
We can do both! We can be prideful but also hate an ugly flag!
seriously though! I was never in a big city where queer pride was that openly displayed than in London. And I don‘t mean the flags. I mean gay couples openly kissing and cuddling, being loud and having fun in public. Queer waiters in a big chain being openly (very) queer. It was awesome and I was awestruck as well travelled Swiss! And no, Berlin does not take the cake on this one.
WTF is happening in the comments? I'm glad you feel accepted, OP. most Londoners I meet irl are very accepting.
*sorts by controversial*
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💚💛🧡❤️💙💜
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But for a whole month? We get it. There’s gay folk in Ldn. But seriously, even as a gay man it gets on my nerves.
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That's kinda gay
Two years ago I was there and got to witness the Pride parade. Was such a fantastic feeling seeing all those flags. Of course there are people opposed and many call it lip-service. But honestly, I think it's nice to know that being outwardly pro LGBTQ+ has become so important 🥰
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Pride month has been a thing for literal decades
It has been a thing for years.. were you living under a rock?
Didn't realize there were so many vexillologists in this sub.
Right 😂 Nothing like a Pride flag to make everyone become an expert on flag symbology I guess!
Why aren't asexual people represented on the flag?
They are with the regular rainbow flag, which serves to represeny every kind of queer person, which is why I find it redundant to add on more to the flag since, well, it already represents everyone :3