There would've been orcs thay could follow and harass them from the shores, yes they could have the speed but there are issues. Also, they'd have to aquire a bigger vessel once they hit the open water. Don't forget there were also the pirates who swore to Sauron that could've tried to sink them. There are too many issues. They needed the advantage of being low-key as long as possible
They could get to Isengard just fine, and there's nothing to stop them from just wandering a little west into Dunland and beyond. Don't forget the mountains are also full of orcs and goblins, all they have to do is take one of their many western doors and climb down.
That's a yes. For years, Gondor had been losing influence and wouldn't be able to defend its entire area of land. No doubt there'd be orc scouts that be venturing into western Gondor
Pirates, also closer to Minas Tirith. Adds 20 more members to the already secret fellowship, to man the ship.
Also sea monsters? Maybe. Plenty of opportunity for more people to be tempted by the ring.
Boats were mentioned in the Council of Elrond. He states that it is the most obvious path and the most watched. Not just by Sauron but it would have been close to Dunland and Saruman. Plus it would have gone into water filled with Umbar Corsairs. Also a boat with a shallow draught for the rivers would not be much good in the open ocean. They would have needed to change boats twice. And I dont think there are many ports to hire boats in Enedwaith. It would have also brought them into populated Gondor where they would have attracted attention.
I'm pretty sure when it was discussed they weren't actually going to go out to sea, just take the river down the the shore and walk through Gondor, having to spend only a short time walking through potentially hostile territory. But it would bring them close to Saruman's territory, which was the same problem walking through Rohan (Boromir's suggestion) had. We see them tracked by Crebain and attacked by Wargs before getting to the mountains, it would have been worse as they got closer.
The 'most obvious path' was referring to the idea of trying to take it to the Grey Havens, and ultimately to Aman, rather than an alternate route to Mordor, mostly via river.
In the words of master JRR himself, "shut up!"
Think how boring and short that story would have been. And the waterways were likely monitored at certain points.
I wasn't referring to a plot hole. That's just what Tolkien said when people asked him why he didn't just have the eagles fly the ring to Mordor. This is the same kind of situation. It's meant as a quote not an insult.
Quite literally sitting ducks. Even the birds could've easily located them on open waters. When you're carrying the fate of Middle-Earth around your neck, you want to not be easily discovered.
1. Correct. Tharbad I believe is hard to pass by boat, lots of weed choked areas
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. No, sailing downstream, even with having to disembark, would have been faster, and they could have quickly progressed on foot, or more likely horseback, through Gondor as it's friendly territory where Sauron had very few agents.
5. This route serves both purposes equally well
The big issue was it went by Isengard and Saruman would have been attacking them the whole way.
Why didn't they just sail to Mordor? Are they stupid?
Oh come on, you know someone was going to say it on account of that never-ending meme from a little while ago.
Yes, right up through one of the most hotly contested regions in Middle Earth… Their mission was of secrecy, and as such they had to go the way they did.
Er, they did? Except they went down the Anduin from Lorien to Nen Hithoel. When you look at the map, the boat took them a huge chunk of the way to Mordor.
The whole thing was meant to be a secret op, a journey that long via waterways would require a larger vessel than just a rowboat and that would draw attention to them.
This wouldn’t of worked on any level:
They went through the mountains to lose an already pursuing enemy of orcs, wargs and nazgul.
Say they get to the boat and sail through without existing problems or pirates only to disembark at osgiliath where they’ve got a greeting from weak lesser men who’d stumble after the ring for denethor, or an army orcs who’s invasion will probably be hastened.
Then without Gollum, how they going to find the secret entrance if he’s on a beach somewhere looking out for the boat.
Absolute fail.
The plan never included gollum showing a secret entrance so mainly not using the waterways is just a plot contrivance from the author. Corsairs could never have watched a large body of water comprehensively. Criticism of the sea plan just doesn't add up. But the land route made for a somewhat better action story.
Frodo and Sam's journey was not just about reaching Mount Doom physically. It was also a spiritual and psychological journey, a test of their resolve and the strength of their friendship. Walking to Mordor allowed them to face numerous trials, confront their fears, and demonstrate their unwavering determination to fulfill their mission.
While it might seem that using waterways would be quicker and safer, there were potential risks. Mordor was guarded by treacherous terrain, including marshes, rocky shores, and dangerous currents. Additionally, using boats would require them to navigate past potential enemy checkpoints, which could have been challenging and hazardous.
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In addition to all the points people have already made, they would have had to row upstream to get to Mordor. Would have been very difficult to impossible.
Yes but if they shipwrecked they would have met a traitorous roughneck on the water that SHOCKINGLY was Sauron floating around looking for gags on the water all along.
That kind of thing apparently happens in Middle Earth now.
There would've been orcs thay could follow and harass them from the shores, yes they could have the speed but there are issues. Also, they'd have to aquire a bigger vessel once they hit the open water. Don't forget there were also the pirates who swore to Sauron that could've tried to sink them. There are too many issues. They needed the advantage of being low-key as long as possible
There’s also other dangerous creatures of the sea that could sink them.
True and probably more of those watcher of the waters
What was that entity in the water in ROP?
What orcs would be able to just yolo into west Gondor ?
They could get to Isengard just fine, and there's nothing to stop them from just wandering a little west into Dunland and beyond. Don't forget the mountains are also full of orcs and goblins, all they have to do is take one of their many western doors and climb down.
That's a yes. For years, Gondor had been losing influence and wouldn't be able to defend its entire area of land. No doubt there'd be orc scouts that be venturing into western Gondor
"Wesssssssst!!".
Plus Sauron has a small air force. Plus the Hobbits are pretty explicitly not that comfortable with being on the water.
Pirates, also closer to Minas Tirith. Adds 20 more members to the already secret fellowship, to man the ship. Also sea monsters? Maybe. Plenty of opportunity for more people to be tempted by the ring.
gandalf seemed worried about sea monsters or something of the sort when it was suggested they throw the ring into the ocean and forget about it.
I thought so, I couldn’t remember
True
Didn't we just do this? Council of Elrond. "Fraught with peril." Secrecy. Corsairs.
Also, this isn't Mordor. They just sailed to Osgilish.
They would be in a war zone if they took that route
I was late to the council and missed that part
A wizard is never late
They couldn't fly to mordor either
Boats were mentioned in the Council of Elrond. He states that it is the most obvious path and the most watched. Not just by Sauron but it would have been close to Dunland and Saruman. Plus it would have gone into water filled with Umbar Corsairs. Also a boat with a shallow draught for the rivers would not be much good in the open ocean. They would have needed to change boats twice. And I dont think there are many ports to hire boats in Enedwaith. It would have also brought them into populated Gondor where they would have attracted attention.
I'm pretty sure when it was discussed they weren't actually going to go out to sea, just take the river down the the shore and walk through Gondor, having to spend only a short time walking through potentially hostile territory. But it would bring them close to Saruman's territory, which was the same problem walking through Rohan (Boromir's suggestion) had. We see them tracked by Crebain and attacked by Wargs before getting to the mountains, it would have been worse as they got closer.
And gollum would probably have a hard time following them
The 'most obvious path' was referring to the idea of trying to take it to the Grey Havens, and ultimately to Aman, rather than an alternate route to Mordor, mostly via river.
True
In the words of master JRR himself, "shut up!" Think how boring and short that story would have been. And the waterways were likely monitored at certain points.
Dude it's not a plot hole - 'shut up' is not required.
I wasn't referring to a plot hole. That's just what Tolkien said when people asked him why he didn't just have the eagles fly the ring to Mordor. This is the same kind of situation. It's meant as a quote not an insult.
Tolkien never said that; the "interview" you're referring to is a fake one, an imitation of Tolkien's voice by voice actor Asher Puls!
Well, that's depressing. Either way, though, that's why I said it.
They're not the open water type of hobbits. Now, if frodo was a Brandybuck.
Why do people keep saying this? If you'd stop to think about it for more than two minutes, you'd find so many flaws in this plan.
Quite literally sitting ducks. Even the birds could've easily located them on open waters. When you're carrying the fate of Middle-Earth around your neck, you want to not be easily discovered.
The Corsairs would frustrate a sea route, the Nazgul an air route. All were doomed to failure, but for the pity of Bilbo and the hand of Iluvatar.
Yeah imagine being the only ship traveling to Mordor... Not suspicious at all.
[удалено]
1. Correct. Tharbad I believe is hard to pass by boat, lots of weed choked areas 2. Yes 3. Yes 4. No, sailing downstream, even with having to disembark, would have been faster, and they could have quickly progressed on foot, or more likely horseback, through Gondor as it's friendly territory where Sauron had very few agents. 5. This route serves both purposes equally well The big issue was it went by Isengard and Saruman would have been attacking them the whole way.
Ports, water ways, and river mouths are all highly scrutinized choke points and corridors. Terrible idea.
I feel like a winged Nazgûl could easily take down a couple boats. Not to mention Haradrim nor any orc.
Why didn't they just sail to Mordor? Are they stupid? Oh come on, you know someone was going to say it on account of that never-ending meme from a little while ago.
Yes, right up through one of the most hotly contested regions in Middle Earth… Their mission was of secrecy, and as such they had to go the way they did.
The mission was about secrecy. A sip is too easy to spot. And imagine fighting nazgul at sea.
And the eagles could’ve flown the ring to Mt. Doom too, what the heck?! /s
Please tell me you forgot the /s
Er, they did? Except they went down the Anduin from Lorien to Nen Hithoel. When you look at the map, the boat took them a huge chunk of the way to Mordor.
I guess if the winds were unfavourable, they could have asked the eagles to pull the boats
Pirates of UMBAR
Well it's easier to get caught in the see than it is on land and they'll have nowhere to run or hide. If they get caught it's over.
The whole thing was meant to be a secret op, a journey that long via waterways would require a larger vessel than just a rowboat and that would draw attention to them.
This wouldn’t of worked on any level: They went through the mountains to lose an already pursuing enemy of orcs, wargs and nazgul. Say they get to the boat and sail through without existing problems or pirates only to disembark at osgiliath where they’ve got a greeting from weak lesser men who’d stumble after the ring for denethor, or an army orcs who’s invasion will probably be hastened. Then without Gollum, how they going to find the secret entrance if he’s on a beach somewhere looking out for the boat. Absolute fail.
Yeah it wouldn't have worked
The plan never included gollum showing a secret entrance so mainly not using the waterways is just a plot contrivance from the author. Corsairs could never have watched a large body of water comprehensively. Criticism of the sea plan just doesn't add up. But the land route made for a somewhat better action story.
Orc pirates, man.
too dangerous
Agreed
Most rivers don’t flow up into the mountains…
True
Against the stream? That's rough.
Yep
but there was a slight chance of suddenly meeting a ship of survivors, with one of them turning out to be sauron
We don't talk about the ring of power here
THE SEA IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!
Frodo and Sam's journey was not just about reaching Mount Doom physically. It was also a spiritual and psychological journey, a test of their resolve and the strength of their friendship. Walking to Mordor allowed them to face numerous trials, confront their fears, and demonstrate their unwavering determination to fulfill their mission. While it might seem that using waterways would be quicker and safer, there were potential risks. Mordor was guarded by treacherous terrain, including marshes, rocky shores, and dangerous currents. Additionally, using boats would require them to navigate past potential enemy checkpoints, which could have been challenging and hazardous.
Easily
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If they managed to get those boats over the falls of Rauros.
*easily 😄 Nope, not even close
In addition to all the points people have already made, they would have had to row upstream to get to Mordor. Would have been very difficult to impossible.
Shit story..
Are you a fan of Outside Extra by any chance?
This is true. I canoed like 60km in three days last week, it was easy.
Corsairs of Umbar
The corsairs of Umbar would be a problem. I think Gandalf's original plan was to travel north of Mordor and go in through the East
Yes but if they shipwrecked they would have met a traitorous roughneck on the water that SHOCKINGLY was Sauron floating around looking for gags on the water all along. That kind of thing apparently happens in Middle Earth now.