I don’t have the time to write everything I want to about the incredible Eowyn right now, but yes, she is a very important character in the book.
In this scene, when he says “should have loved her as a father” he is referring to the fact that instead of him taking care of her, she was forced to care for him in the incapacitated state Saruman had put him in via Wormtongue.
I can’t recommend that enough! Fair warning, I first read it 25+ years ago, and I haven’t stopped reading it (and the rest of Tolkiens writing) ever since.
The books are so superior. Although if you're a fledging fantasy writer. They do instill the fear of God in you. Because you know you will never write anything as incredible as what Tolkien wrote... This is my problem I'm having now
I'll repeat the only bad casting was Faramir (and the character assassination PJ did to him regarding taking the Hobbits to Osgilliath). Elrond I keep hearing Agent Smith, but that's on me, not Hugo.
Yes! Tolkien wrote him as a sort of throwback to the old Numenoreans. He's meant to be a shining example of nobility in a darkening age, and PJ just couldn't grasp that. I still remember being filled with rage the first time I saw him torture Gollum.
I think PJ was afraid making Faramir "too authentic" might one-up Aragorn, and he did go to many lengths to make Aragorn shine in every possible. Still I agree it didn't do Faramir's character justice.
From the commentary, I feel like Boyen and Walsh should come in for plenty of blame, maybe even most of the blame. They were too hung up on an almost formulaic goal of giving every single character a big arc of their own, so the Ents can't just decide to attack Isengard, they have to refuse and then change their minds; Sam has to find the lembas after Frodo sends him away so he can come roaring back; Faramir has to try to kidnap Frodo first so he can realize Frodo's task is actually important once the Nazgûl come for him.
I won’t get into the details but Eowyn got me through Afghanistan in one piece. I’m dedicating a tattoo to her as a nod to my favorite character of the entire works of Tolkien.
He fell off his horse while explaining to her that dwarf women do in fact exist but due to being so alike in voice and appearance they get mistaken for dwarf men. Which led folk to think they dont exist and dwarves simply spring out of holes in the ground
I’ve watched that scene a thousand times and I never paid attention to what he was saying, which makes it all the more poignant given the following remaining scenes he shares with her in the films.
The movie kind of drops her story mid-way, while "stretching" it to begin earlier. In the book, we don't have intimate scenes with her until *Return of the King*; she doesn't go to Helm's Deep and I think might not even have dialogue in *Two Towers;* most of that comes from RotK. Only in Dunharrow we get to meet her as a character.
Her charge in the Pelennor is not empowering, and it's not "the climax" of her story: it's suicidal, *almost* her lowest point, born from utter despair and hopelessness. Merry describes her more than once as "one who seeks death" during the ride of the Rohirrim to Gondor. Aragorn's rejection is only the final drop that makes a long-brewing existential crisis explode (or perhaps implode).
Faramir resumes the entire thing pretty nicely:
>*‘You desired to have the love of the Lord Aragorn. Because he was high and puissant, and you wished to have renown and glory and to be lifted far above the mean things that crawl on the earth. And as a great captain may to a young soldier he seemed to you admirable. For so he is, a lord among men, the greatest that now is. But when he gave you only understanding and pity, then you desired to have nothing, unless a brave death in battle.*
Aragorn understands and pities Éowyn because he knows precisely what she sees in him. The thing is that Éowyn does not understand Aragorn, because "renown and glory" is not who Aragorn is. Hell, his motivation is *love* to begin with, and if you asked him, he'd rather be walking and reading and singing in Rivendell.
The follow-up of Faramir's just-quoted dialogue is:
>*‘Do not scorn pity that is the gift of a gentle heart, Eowyn! But I do not offer you my pity. For you are a lady high and valiant and have yourself won renown that shall not be forgotten; and you are a lady beautiful, I deem, beyond even the words of the elven-tongue to tell. And I love you. Once I pitied your sorrow. But now, were you sorrowless, without fear or any lack, were you the blissful Queen of Gondor, still I would love you. Éowyn, do you not love me?*
What does he mean by "pity your sorrow"? You see, earlier in this chapter (which happens while Aragorn and co. march to the Black Gate) Éowyn was adamant on saying cheerful things like this:
>‘But I do not desire healing,’ she said. ‘I wish to ride to war like my brother Éomer, or better like Théoden the king, for he died and has both honour and peace.’
Or this:
>\[Faramir:\] For you and I have both passed under the wings of the Shadow, and the same hand drew us back.’
‘Alas, not me, lord!’ she said. ‘Shadow lies on me still. Look not to me for healing! I am a shieldmaiden and my hand is ungentle.
But after half a chapter of Faramir doing free therapy, and *right* after his question '*do you not love me?*', which happens right after Sauron's fall, Éowyn's heart changes:
>*‘I stand in Minas Anor, the Tower of the Sun,’ she said; ‘and behold! the Shadow has departed!* *I will be a shieldmaiden no longer, nor vie with the great Riders, nor take joy only in the songs of slaying. I will be a healer, and love all things that grow and are not barren.’ And again she looked at Faramir. ‘No longer do I desire to be a queen,’ she said.*
Éowyn does not prove to be "as worthy of renown and glory as any man"; or at least that's not the point of her story. The point of her story is that she grows out of that desire, and understands that Good is to defend the green earth, not to paint it red. While "painting" might be necessary at times, it's not worth *seeking*; it is a mean to an end, to protect, not an end unto itself. Faramir exemplifies this philosophy very strongly and appears in the precise moment and circumstances in which Éowyn is finally in the place of mind and spirit to grow out of her misguided desire, and that is the physical place called the Houses of Healing.
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She’s the most bad ass human in the book hands down. Starred down a Fel flying creature who was mounted by the Leader of the 9 ring wraiths and probably the scariest creature in existence at the time. She cut the mounts head off and fucking stabs the evil asswipe in the face for Christ sake! It was said that every man that had faced him before that either died standing still from fear or fled because they became too afraid.
Read the (bad) subtitles on top!!”Should have plucked her as a father.“ I was very confused before reading the actual post. 
I don’t have the time to write everything I want to about the incredible Eowyn right now, but yes, she is a very important character in the book. In this scene, when he says “should have loved her as a father” he is referring to the fact that instead of him taking care of her, she was forced to care for him in the incapacitated state Saruman had put him in via Wormtongue.
Thank you I think it’s time to sit down and read the books. ☺️
I can’t recommend that enough! Fair warning, I first read it 25+ years ago, and I haven’t stopped reading it (and the rest of Tolkiens writing) ever since.
As it should be.
I read slow to.
😂👍
If you're into audiobooks, Andy Serkis did an amazing job on the whole series
So good!
The books are so superior. Although if you're a fledging fantasy writer. They do instill the fear of God in you. Because you know you will never write anything as incredible as what Tolkien wrote... This is my problem I'm having now
Her and eomir were vastly underrated in a pool of superstars, they absolutely killed it (her better than him)
I'll repeat the only bad casting was Faramir (and the character assassination PJ did to him regarding taking the Hobbits to Osgilliath). Elrond I keep hearing Agent Smith, but that's on me, not Hugo.
I liked the casting, but I agree 100% that PJ did him dirty. I don't think he really understood the character.
Yeah, Faramir had understated nobility, a consideration to his actions that Boromir lacked, and he wrote him as notice me papi!
Yes! Tolkien wrote him as a sort of throwback to the old Numenoreans. He's meant to be a shining example of nobility in a darkening age, and PJ just couldn't grasp that. I still remember being filled with rage the first time I saw him torture Gollum.
I think PJ was afraid making Faramir "too authentic" might one-up Aragorn, and he did go to many lengths to make Aragorn shine in every possible. Still I agree it didn't do Faramir's character justice.
From the commentary, I feel like Boyen and Walsh should come in for plenty of blame, maybe even most of the blame. They were too hung up on an almost formulaic goal of giving every single character a big arc of their own, so the Ents can't just decide to attack Isengard, they have to refuse and then change their minds; Sam has to find the lembas after Frodo sends him away so he can come roaring back; Faramir has to try to kidnap Frodo first so he can realize Frodo's task is actually important once the Nazgûl come for him.
I won’t get into the details but Eowyn got me through Afghanistan in one piece. I’m dedicating a tattoo to her as a nod to my favorite character of the entire works of Tolkien.
>Was he talking about himself. Yes. And Eowyn is supposed to be around 24. She's the daughter of Theoden's sister.
Yes AND he’s talking about the position Aragorn puts Galadriel in, since she is an immortal elf and he grow old and die.
G-galadriel…?
Wait…….. WTF WHY IS EOWYN PETTING GIMLI?!?!!? How did i never see this before????
He fell off his horse while explaining to her that dwarf women do in fact exist but due to being so alike in voice and appearance they get mistaken for dwarf men. Which led folk to think they dont exist and dwarves simply spring out of holes in the ground
Its the beards
Cause he’s a good boy duh.
Lol I think it’s more like he fell and she was helping him get the grass off his back. She’s smiling because that’s when the camera pans on her.
Thanks for the explanation! Didnt get that from this snippet🤭
I’ve watched that scene a thousand times and I never paid attention to what he was saying, which makes it all the more poignant given the following remaining scenes he shares with her in the films.
Himself. He calls Eomer his sister son. They are the children of Theodens sister.
He's talking about himself. Why would someone she's gonna marry love her like a father?
So she was doomed to marry her uncle?? Thank you.
It's not about marriage, Theoden is saying that she was doomed to tend to him until his death and that he should have treated her like a daughter.
Aaahhhh, okay that makes more sense. Thanks!
Good grief 😂
Aragorn definitely dick teases her in the movies. Eye fucks the hell out of her
She ends up with Faramir, it's not all bad for her.
Which , in the movies is a pretty funny conclusion 😅. Hello, we’re both still alive, young and in love?
Also nobility!
Perfect
If only it had been Boromir instead of
Walmart brand Aragorn
Aww, he's at least Kirkland Signature!
They originally wrote a love triangle between Aragorn, Arwen and Eowyn when Arwen was following the Fellowship to Rohan.
Poor Aragorn, must have been hard for him to see Arwen having a crush on Eowyn.
>hard Heh.
The movie kind of drops her story mid-way, while "stretching" it to begin earlier. In the book, we don't have intimate scenes with her until *Return of the King*; she doesn't go to Helm's Deep and I think might not even have dialogue in *Two Towers;* most of that comes from RotK. Only in Dunharrow we get to meet her as a character. Her charge in the Pelennor is not empowering, and it's not "the climax" of her story: it's suicidal, *almost* her lowest point, born from utter despair and hopelessness. Merry describes her more than once as "one who seeks death" during the ride of the Rohirrim to Gondor. Aragorn's rejection is only the final drop that makes a long-brewing existential crisis explode (or perhaps implode). Faramir resumes the entire thing pretty nicely: >*‘You desired to have the love of the Lord Aragorn. Because he was high and puissant, and you wished to have renown and glory and to be lifted far above the mean things that crawl on the earth. And as a great captain may to a young soldier he seemed to you admirable. For so he is, a lord among men, the greatest that now is. But when he gave you only understanding and pity, then you desired to have nothing, unless a brave death in battle.* Aragorn understands and pities Éowyn because he knows precisely what she sees in him. The thing is that Éowyn does not understand Aragorn, because "renown and glory" is not who Aragorn is. Hell, his motivation is *love* to begin with, and if you asked him, he'd rather be walking and reading and singing in Rivendell. The follow-up of Faramir's just-quoted dialogue is: >*‘Do not scorn pity that is the gift of a gentle heart, Eowyn! But I do not offer you my pity. For you are a lady high and valiant and have yourself won renown that shall not be forgotten; and you are a lady beautiful, I deem, beyond even the words of the elven-tongue to tell. And I love you. Once I pitied your sorrow. But now, were you sorrowless, without fear or any lack, were you the blissful Queen of Gondor, still I would love you. Éowyn, do you not love me?* What does he mean by "pity your sorrow"? You see, earlier in this chapter (which happens while Aragorn and co. march to the Black Gate) Éowyn was adamant on saying cheerful things like this: >‘But I do not desire healing,’ she said. ‘I wish to ride to war like my brother Éomer, or better like Théoden the king, for he died and has both honour and peace.’ Or this: >\[Faramir:\] For you and I have both passed under the wings of the Shadow, and the same hand drew us back.’ ‘Alas, not me, lord!’ she said. ‘Shadow lies on me still. Look not to me for healing! I am a shieldmaiden and my hand is ungentle. But after half a chapter of Faramir doing free therapy, and *right* after his question '*do you not love me?*', which happens right after Sauron's fall, Éowyn's heart changes: >*‘I stand in Minas Anor, the Tower of the Sun,’ she said; ‘and behold! the Shadow has departed!* *I will be a shieldmaiden no longer, nor vie with the great Riders, nor take joy only in the songs of slaying. I will be a healer, and love all things that grow and are not barren.’ And again she looked at Faramir. ‘No longer do I desire to be a queen,’ she said.* Éowyn does not prove to be "as worthy of renown and glory as any man"; or at least that's not the point of her story. The point of her story is that she grows out of that desire, and understands that Good is to defend the green earth, not to paint it red. While "painting" might be necessary at times, it's not worth *seeking*; it is a mean to an end, to protect, not an end unto itself. Faramir exemplifies this philosophy very strongly and appears in the precise moment and circumstances in which Éowyn is finally in the place of mind and spirit to grow out of her misguided desire, and that is the physical place called the Houses of Healing.
Serious girl crush on Eowyn.
Boy, did Aragorn make the wrong call...
I dunno… that stew she made…
I'm the King...she doesn't need to cook.
Umm Arwen is not the wrong call, that’s for sure
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No lengthy comments are needed. This is fucking brilliant.
Best movies ever!
How long was he under saruman in the books and movies?
Stew game WEAK doe.
When two people are talking about you from a far and your anxiety kicks in.
She’s the most bad ass human in the book hands down. Starred down a Fel flying creature who was mounted by the Leader of the 9 ring wraiths and probably the scariest creature in existence at the time. She cut the mounts head off and fucking stabs the evil asswipe in the face for Christ sake! It was said that every man that had faced him before that either died standing still from fear or fled because they became too afraid.
Read the (bad) subtitles on top!!”Should have plucked her as a father.“ I was very confused before reading the actual post. 