The construction of the tower began around the SA 1000, and took six hundred years to complete.
As to how did he made it: Slaves. Lots and lots of tortured slaves.
Sauron was a Maiar of Aulë
Aulë was the craftsman of the Valar who literally created the mountains.
Since Sauron still had his full strength in those days it obviously would not have been an unthinkably difficult task for him to achieve
joke different exultant rude illegal pocket tidy reminiscent deranged expansion
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Mordor would be a respected and valued member of the United Nations, despite the vigorous protests of Gondor, Rohan, and Lothlorien. Saruman's advocacy would be decisive.
I love this answer! They had everything: employee insurance, breaks, paid meals 3x day, even birthday party were made for everyone by Mordor TM. I don't know why gondorians were so pissed of, if we had proposed them to join our team...
And don't forget the foundations were made with the power of the ring. That why they remained after his first defeat at the end of the SA, even though Gondor demolished the Tower part. They could not remove the foundations.
Went on Sephora’s website which may be using different ingredients than sauron did for his foundation regardless I found this:
> Talc, Zinc Stearate, Dimethicone, Silica, Isononyl Isononanoate, Boron Nitride, Synthetic Fluorphlogopite, Alumina, Caprylyl Glycol, Ethylhexylglycerin, Tocopherol. (+/-): CI 77891 (Titanium Dioxide), CI 77491/CI 77492/CI 77499 (Iron Oxides).
Sauron may have been using his own proprietary blend that was never made public considering his bad experience gifting around a bunch of rings. I suppose Orodruin nearby probably supplied ample amounts of iron titanium silica alumina zinc and Boron. Most definitely organic Fluorphlogopite too no need for synthetic, ew. I’m guessing there was no FDA back then to impose him to list his ingredients publicly, who knows sauron might be the head of FDA considering the state of americas health.
> I’m guessing there was no FDA back then … who knows sauron might be the head of the FDA considering
This whole comment was gold but this last line legit made me cackle.
The thought of Sauron heading a government entity in middle earth, sitting at his desk 🪑🧑💻
“Roundup?? Yes yes more of it spray it everywhere it’s safe” “canola oil? For sure label it heart healthy and deep fry everything in it” *lame dumb humans I’m so bored*
Woof, that would have made quite the dramatic change to the story if it was cut off sauron’s body while elsewhere on his body.
Does Sauron have a penis?
Nvrmnd don’t answer that.
Kind of reminiscent of Cologne cathedral. Im not sure if the cruelty and malice were there, but it took 600 years and kept falling apart as they tried to build it.
The Wise pretty much expected some sort of return for Sauron one way or another eventually. Mostly there was just a lot of debate about whether all the evil arising out of the East was from the Nazgul acting independently or if Sauron had returned to a corporeal form and was directing the forces of evil directly.
so why not invade mordor BEFORE there was a world destroying horde of evil things there, could have solved a LOT problems from happening in the first place
They did. There's a whole timeline of Gondor's struggles and its victories and defeats and how eventually the Gondorian watch over Mordor was eventually broken.
A lot of problems in Middle Earth's history could have been avoided by acting rationally, just like in real life. The problem in both of those cases is that humans don't always act rationally.
FWIW, Gondor did blow in after Sauron was defeated in the Last Alliance and ripped down all or most of Sauron's fortifications, except for the foundations of Barad Dûr as they couldn't be destroyed as long as the Ring existed. Most of the buildings in or near Mordor (including the Tower of Cirith Ungol, Minas Morgul, and the Towers of the Teeth) were added by Gondor to keep an eye on the place, but when they became lazy Sauron easily took them for himself and rebuilt Barad Dûr while Gondor and other people were busy with other things.
Edit: YES YOU ARE ALL VERY VERY SMART. I know full well that "became lazy" is an oversimplification, but I thought I could get away with using a shorthand so I wouldn't have to recount the entire history of Gondor to a sub full of people who already know the entire history of Gondor.
Idk if "became lazy" is the way to say it, they had a long slow retreat as they failed to achieve a replacement birth rate from spending like 2000 years at war
When the Witch King took Minas Ithil and turned it into Minas Morgul, Gondor couldn't really get into Mordor anymore, so while Sauron didn't rebuild Barad Dûr until just after The Hobbit events, there was all kinds of behind the scenes prep possible. The Nazgul & armies had secured everything east of Osgiliath for centuries.
Not really lazy, they got wrecked by The Great Plague that was almost certainly Sauron's work. This led to a shortage of manpower so the watch on Mordor was curtailed as soldiers were needed else where.
This. Humans outside of Númenor weren't doing anything about it, and Númenor was having too good a time living their long-ass lives on their star-ass island.
Even when you had Gondor, Minas Ithil turned into a complete liability when the Witch King took it (TA 2000), Mordor was pretty shut after that from direct intrusion.
> Didn't anyone notice a 600 year gigantic construction project?
Sauron created front companies in puppet states so he could order construction materials he needed from the nations of men. They didn't suspect anything, as they thought it was for the construction of pizza ovens.
What’s really sad and unfair is that Sauron didn’t get to use magic to build Barad Dur, he had to do it the hard way —hundreds of years of labor.
But then when the ring is destroyed, suddenly magic enters the picture again and his fortress collapses.
So no magic to build it, but yes magic to destroy it. I’m sure when that happened Sauron wanted to call bullshit so bad… not cool, Eru, this whole plot is stacked against me!
The foundation of the tower was built by the magic of the ring. And that wasn't destroyed after the war of the last alliance because the ring wasn't destroyed. It only took several years after sauron's return for barad dur to be rebuilt fully again.
It's more like "Whew, this tower sure is too tall and heavy for the ground to support it, it's a good thing that I used the strongest magical artifact since the Silmarils to strengthen the ground, nothing will ever be able to break those workings... Hey what's that short guy doing"
This is the real question. finding materials and workers? Easy. Finding someone familiar enough with load bearing, masonry, who knows how to construct wooden cranes? How tf did Sauron find engineers?
Before Sauron took up allegiance to Morgoth he was a Maiar of Aule, the god of knowledge and crafting with stones and metals. So before we knew him he was a deity who knew how to work with metals and stones. I'm sure it was relatively easy for him to come up with the plans and specs and could have trusted captains to oversee and take care of the day to day stuff.
Plus he poured a lot of his magical essence into the fortress. Gondor was able to take down the tower but was unable to remove the foundation because of that magic.
Plus he not only had orcs in his forces. He employed men from the east and the Nazgul were also men of great importance before they turned. There's probably a couple of them who knew what they were doing and could take care of the finer details of the equipment while the orcs did the actual back breaking labor.
Just like today, the people who design and build the construction equipment are not the same people using it. Once the machines are built and the plans laid out, I'm sure he had enough smartish orcs that could learn "twist this this way to go up, this way to go down. Turn this to go right, turn that to go left"
Well I know that. But Sauron isnt corporeal after the second age. How is he making these plans? Are Haradrim and Rhunnic engineers the ones planning Barad-dur? Did Sauron sit over their shoulder and say "Oh make it uh, spikier. And I'll need a spot for my eye. "
He tied his spirit to a piece of gold and has been alive for thousands of years, even died a time or two. I think you're putting way too much thought into this.
Edit: plus the Nazgul were tied to his will. They know what he wants and can communicate with him just fine
>I think you're putting way too much thought into this.
I dont think you are putting enough thought into this.
Do the Nazgul sit in meetings with Haradrim engineers? Do Orcs give reports about progress, project needs, etc. How are the men paid? Do the Orcs farm the lands around the sea of Nurnen? Does Sauron trade excess crops for gold which is used to fund projects like Barad-dur? Who keeps track of the treasury? The mouth of Sauron? the Witch King of Angmar? Maybe Khamul?
I'm interested in this too. Fictional stories handwave a lot of things because we don't need to see a traveling fellowship dig holes to shit in or talk to bureaucrats to buy traveling visas. But I've always wanted to know these details cause its really interesting to me.
Sauron was super OCD and the orcs had serial numbers. It's very likely that the Dark Tower was staffed with not just generals and sorcerers, but administrators and bureaucrats who carried out the tasks of governance as Sauron dictated.
The Nazgul were basically VPs and the Mouth was Sauron's PA in this context.
That's a movie invention. In the context of discussing Sauron in the third age in letter #246 Tolkien describes him as " Sauron should be thought of as very terrible, in form a man of more than human stature (but not gigantic)."
Gollum also mentions that Sauron only has four fingers on one hand, seemingly unable to re-grow the finger he lost when Isildur cut the One from his hand. "Yes, He has only four fingers on the Black Hand, but they are enough."
There are also references in both books and letters to Sauron coming or going places.
So yes, he could have sat down at a table and drawn up some CAD files for Barad-dur 2.0 without having to work through a go-between
>"Yes, He has only four fingers on the Black Hand, but they are enough."
Now I have this image in my head of Sauron sitting on a couch with a pimp cane and Gollum as his hype guy going "he's only got 4 finger on his black hand, but they're enough for all them bitches".
Man, I'd love to have a poke about in there. I mean I wouldn't because I doubt the homeowner would be very keen on me as one of those filthy, debased hildor. But I'd be so into all the boring minutiae of how a fallen angel's terror fortress works.
Where do the orcs sleep? What are the shift rotations? How is labour divided? Who looks after the fell beasts when the wraiths are busy with paperwork or whatever? Where do you go when you gotta go?
Edit: now I can't stop thinking about this stuff. Are there spaces for cultural expression? Gathering areas to eat and drink, perhaps stages for music or great murals or tapestries? What IS orc culture?
Presumably the humans of Sauron's domains have a presence there as well? Do they mingle with the orcs or do the two species keep to themselves?
Do families live in the tower? Are their schools or places of worship?
These things will haunt me...
The executive toilet is 100% right there on the top! I would plan it like that... every time you gotta go you can just overlook all that you accomplished and maybe also look for some little dude that has your ring
Probably depended on the form that he chose. Gandalf was an incarnated Maiar and could enjoy things like food and tobacco. Sauron probably chose to have as few "bodily functions" as possible when he could help it, though; I imagine he thought they were disgusting. But while he was a "captive" in Numenor, he more than likely had to be as human as he could be.
How are large quantities of material moved up and down the tower? Is there an internal pulley/lift system or just those little cranes on the sides? Who keeps the torches and hearths lit? What does the boss's room look like? Who's in charge of food prep and distribution?
How many bed/bath is this and does it come with only one fully equipped kitchen? Is the primary bedroom an entire floor of the tower? Is his room set up like an executive apartment? Does Sauron prefer silky or rough-woven sheets? Does he have a staff of orc chefs or are they human slaves?
Lots of things I could learn by a quick tour.
“Hi, we represent the Union for Corrupted and Fallen Creations of Ilúvatar. We’re just gonna have a look around. We know you’ve been in a non-corporeal form for the last few millennia, but it is important that we conduct these surprise inspections regularly to ensure you’re still complying with the current contract.”
Edit: corrected the creator
Makes me wonder who designed it. Is Sauron an architect too? Or does the interior look like an office building, just straight grids and rooms. Imagine if the contracted some orc genius to design it for maximum feng shui and open space.
That’s honestly one of the most interesting questions I’ve ever wondered about: what the fuck does it look like *inside* Barad-Dûr? There’s no text saying anything about it, and I’m genuinely curious, what is it like?? I imagine it’s like…pretty active, right? Whereas Minas Morgul is probably pretty quiet, generally. Like, orcs move around and stuff but the Nazgûl probably don’t move when not engaged by Sauron. They’re probably mostly just sitting/standing around in silence, undead and waiting for orders, while orcs shuffle about in the lower chambers preparing for the war. Since the Nazgûl don’t “live” in Barad-Dûr, there’s probably only Sauron, the Mouth, and his strongest orc generals who actually live there. Maybe Gothmog? Idk, what does everyone think?? I may even make this a whole post, cuz I wanna hear everybody’s opinion
The Dark Lord has a lot of human servants, I suppose his fortress becomes more "human" in its population the more you move up.
Probably a lot of Black Numenoreans.
Hmmm, a fair observation! What do you think it’s like for the Men? Like, do you think they replicate the old hierarchies of Numenor? Or is it like a crazy intricate hierarchy of betrayal and espionage for Sauron’s benefit and everybody in Barad-Dûr is fighting each other for his favor, unaware that ultimately he’s just using them for his own gain?
Typical condos with full amenities including torture chambers (lots of fun!) sub leased at a decent company rate to all occupants. What a privilege working for ~~Jeff Bezos~~ Sauron the Great
I don't think they just stand around. The Witchking brought Arnor to its knees eventhough Sauron wasn't around, right? They probably still pursue sth of a personal agenda during 'time off'.
I think Adamant was middle english word for diamond and other stones of similar hardness, in fact I think Galadrials ring Nenya was the ring of Adamant, made of a white stone and Mithril
Probably just a descriptor. The tower of Orthanc and the outer walls of Minas Tirith are noted as being made of some near-indestructible black stone. Those were made by the Numenorians, and I’m not sure if Sauron would have been able to achieve the same
It’s partly held up by ‘magic’ isn’t it? I mean, it falls when the ring is destroyed. I’ve always imagined it as a supernatural construction that can only exist because of a ‘cheat’.
It’s 5000 feet tall and would be impossible to construct with normal materials and techniques. A building that large just can’t exist in a world with similar gravity to Earth
God I love the design of this. The multiple layers, getting taller and taller, like Minas Tirith, the spikes that aren't just "hurh durh evil" but actually fit the overall aesthetics, the cliff phasing through, and stuff like cranes and lifts on the side of the tower to repair stuff. It's just all great
The eye isn't really a physical eye on top of a tower that is all PJ shit.
In the LOTR , the most we really get about the big S, is just descriptions. Some of them describe how he is actively searching for the ring, to those in the unseen it would appear as a giant lid less eye that was looking this way and that. He still has a full body, with the exception of his ring finger.
The construction of the tower began around the SA 1000, and took six hundred years to complete. As to how did he made it: Slaves. Lots and lots of tortured slaves.
Use of slaves is a gondorian propaganda. All of them where paid workers!
Mordor to host the 2038 FIFA World Cup
"Today I feel Orc" \-Gianni Infantino
Ich bin ein Uruk
Unfortunately an Uruk is also the name of their popular man-burger
Looks like meat is back on the menu then
I want to know how Orcs know what a menu is. Do they have Orc restaurants? Who staffs them? What's an Orc busboy pulling down per week?
Can Orcs form Unions?
Pretty sure Sauron would use scab labor
“Did he say he was a man-burger? I thought he said he was a man-burger!” “Nah, he’s from Mordor, he’s a man-buuuuuurger!”
This is a comment that deserves more upvotes! Made my day.
Im laughing more than I should
Sauron was a Maiar of Aulë Aulë was the craftsman of the Valar who literally created the mountains. Since Sauron still had his full strength in those days it obviously would not have been an unthinkably difficult task for him to achieve
Gold pure gold
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😭😭😭😭😭😭
Tell me where’s the referee, for I much desire to speak with him!
World cup is back on the menu boys
Italy would still fail to qualify
As to would the Hobbits from the isle of Ireland
Everything is better with man-flesh.
Its coming home lads the precious is still gleaming
Beer will definitely be sold. No one should worry about that being rejected for reasons based on superstitious hokum.
It comes in pints!?
BREAKING NEWS: Beer is no longer available, but Grog remains on the menu (in select areas only).
joke different exultant rude illegal pocket tidy reminiscent deranged expansion *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Mordor would be a respected and valued member of the United Nations, despite the vigorous protests of Gondor, Rohan, and Lothlorien. Saruman's advocacy would be decisive.
Hilarious comment 😂
They have a cave troll on goal too
Not hot enough, need Qatar again
Orc is a slur. Making them monsters is just elven psyops.
I will build the Black Gate, and Gondor will pay for it!
“I’m the greatest Dark Lord, all my friends say it.”
All of them, Non-Union Scabs lol
They deliberately parted with their passports.
That's why meat was on the menu. r/SauronDidNothingWrong
I love this answer! They had everything: employee insurance, breaks, paid meals 3x day, even birthday party were made for everyone by Mordor TM. I don't know why gondorians were so pissed of, if we had proposed them to join our team...
And don't forget the foundations were made with the power of the ring. That why they remained after his first defeat at the end of the SA, even though Gondor demolished the Tower part. They could not remove the foundations.
What do the foundations comprise of?
Went on Sephora’s website which may be using different ingredients than sauron did for his foundation regardless I found this: > Talc, Zinc Stearate, Dimethicone, Silica, Isononyl Isononanoate, Boron Nitride, Synthetic Fluorphlogopite, Alumina, Caprylyl Glycol, Ethylhexylglycerin, Tocopherol. (+/-): CI 77891 (Titanium Dioxide), CI 77491/CI 77492/CI 77499 (Iron Oxides). Sauron may have been using his own proprietary blend that was never made public considering his bad experience gifting around a bunch of rings. I suppose Orodruin nearby probably supplied ample amounts of iron titanium silica alumina zinc and Boron. Most definitely organic Fluorphlogopite too no need for synthetic, ew. I’m guessing there was no FDA back then to impose him to list his ingredients publicly, who knows sauron might be the head of FDA considering the state of americas health.
He actually lost the patent after the sinking of Numenor.
Well, that was his own fault, so he deserved it.
If it’s not made with heavy metals, bat guano, and pregnant mare’s urine is it really an authentic ancient make up though?
Idk I’m feeling his was a bit heavier on the CI 77492 but I’m no expert
Appreciate your candor here. A lot of people claim expertise on Cl 77492, and it turns out they just read a Scholastic article at the dentist once.
> I’m guessing there was no FDA back then … who knows sauron might be the head of the FDA considering This whole comment was gold but this last line legit made me cackle. The thought of Sauron heading a government entity in middle earth, sitting at his desk 🪑🧑💻
“Roundup?? Yes yes more of it spray it everywhere it’s safe” “canola oil? For sure label it heart healthy and deep fry everything in it” *lame dumb humans I’m so bored*
>His own proprietary blend Lavender, Rose hips and a bit of Tahitian Vanilla.
I wonder if it was a dewy or matte variety. Anti oil? Color correcting?
The foundation
Oreo biscuits. Leftovers after the vanilla cream was used to build Minas Tirith.
But does Gondor have permission to destroy these walls or have they entered property illegally?
What does SA stand for?
Second age
Muchas gracias
[удалено]
شك
My ring my rules
Not many know, but he wore that ring elsewhere on his body, at some occasions...
Lol
Woof, that would have made quite the dramatic change to the story if it was cut off sauron’s body while elsewhere on his body. Does Sauron have a penis? Nvrmnd don’t answer that.
Second Age
merci
Second Age
Danke
Second Age
Grazie
Steve Aoki
And also, he was one of the greatest Maiar of Aule. He's literally the best construction manager in Middle Earth.
Wait, Sauron was a Maiar beholden to Aule? How did that escape me?
Easy to overlook how Sauron had a summer internship with Aule when he had an illustrious, long career as a Dark Lord.
He and Saruman know each other from their intern days.
He makes a mean dark brew
Was going to say this. Sauron started out as a demi-god of building stuff.
Kind of reminiscent of Cologne cathedral. Im not sure if the cruelty and malice were there, but it took 600 years and kept falling apart as they tried to build it.
> Cologne cathedral Just looked up pictures, Barad-dûr looks cooler
Maybe, but the cathedral smells better.
The tower of the Enemy would look fairer and smell fouler.
Wasn't the rise of Sauron a surprise to people? Didn't anyone notice a 600 year gigantic construction project??
No social media back then so it was easy to keep it quiet
Just Dark Lords living in the moment
The Wise pretty much expected some sort of return for Sauron one way or another eventually. Mostly there was just a lot of debate about whether all the evil arising out of the East was from the Nazgul acting independently or if Sauron had returned to a corporeal form and was directing the forces of evil directly.
so why not invade mordor BEFORE there was a world destroying horde of evil things there, could have solved a LOT problems from happening in the first place
They did. There's a whole timeline of Gondor's struggles and its victories and defeats and how eventually the Gondorian watch over Mordor was eventually broken.
A lot of problems in Middle Earth's history could have been avoided by acting rationally, just like in real life. The problem in both of those cases is that humans don't always act rationally. FWIW, Gondor did blow in after Sauron was defeated in the Last Alliance and ripped down all or most of Sauron's fortifications, except for the foundations of Barad Dûr as they couldn't be destroyed as long as the Ring existed. Most of the buildings in or near Mordor (including the Tower of Cirith Ungol, Minas Morgul, and the Towers of the Teeth) were added by Gondor to keep an eye on the place, but when they became lazy Sauron easily took them for himself and rebuilt Barad Dûr while Gondor and other people were busy with other things. Edit: YES YOU ARE ALL VERY VERY SMART. I know full well that "became lazy" is an oversimplification, but I thought I could get away with using a shorthand so I wouldn't have to recount the entire history of Gondor to a sub full of people who already know the entire history of Gondor.
Idk if "became lazy" is the way to say it, they had a long slow retreat as they failed to achieve a replacement birth rate from spending like 2000 years at war
And the Great plague that devastated Gondor is implied to have been Sauron's work.
When the Witch King took Minas Ithil and turned it into Minas Morgul, Gondor couldn't really get into Mordor anymore, so while Sauron didn't rebuild Barad Dûr until just after The Hobbit events, there was all kinds of behind the scenes prep possible. The Nazgul & armies had secured everything east of Osgiliath for centuries.
Not really lazy, they got wrecked by The Great Plague that was almost certainly Sauron's work. This led to a shortage of manpower so the watch on Mordor was curtailed as soldiers were needed else where.
1000 SA Mordor was a wilderness area. Gondor did not exist yet. Closest human city was Lond Daer in Eregion. Same with elves in Eregion or Lothlorien.
This. Humans outside of Númenor weren't doing anything about it, and Númenor was having too good a time living their long-ass lives on their star-ass island. Even when you had Gondor, Minas Ithil turned into a complete liability when the Witch King took it (TA 2000), Mordor was pretty shut after that from direct intrusion.
> Didn't anyone notice a 600 year gigantic construction project? Sauron created front companies in puppet states so he could order construction materials he needed from the nations of men. They didn't suspect anything, as they thought it was for the construction of pizza ovens.
And Magic also, the tower was holding thanks to his will, which is why it collapsed when he died
It finished 10 months behind schedule due to the dungeon builders strike.
What’s really sad and unfair is that Sauron didn’t get to use magic to build Barad Dur, he had to do it the hard way —hundreds of years of labor. But then when the ring is destroyed, suddenly magic enters the picture again and his fortress collapses. So no magic to build it, but yes magic to destroy it. I’m sure when that happened Sauron wanted to call bullshit so bad… not cool, Eru, this whole plot is stacked against me!
The foundation of the tower was built by the magic of the ring. And that wasn't destroyed after the war of the last alliance because the ring wasn't destroyed. It only took several years after sauron's return for barad dur to be rebuilt fully again.
It's more like "Whew, this tower sure is too tall and heavy for the ground to support it, it's a good thing that I used the strongest magical artifact since the Silmarils to strengthen the ground, nothing will ever be able to break those workings... Hey what's that short guy doing"
Did he design it himself or is there an orc college so they can study architecture and engineering?
Being a servant of Aulë, I could see Sauron designing it himself
Everyone always forget Sauron is a certified blacksmith and possibly architect (or, more generically, builder).
Some say if he got accepted into college in Vienna he would have taken a different path.
It was that punk Melkor. Meeting that man ruined poor Sauron's life.
Is it morally correct to go back in time and kill baby Sauron
He hired orchitects
God damn it that made me snort
Angry upvote
And has the finest orchards
Probably used students from ITT (Isengard Technical Training).
"They're training the hobbits at Isengard!"
I hope he gave them an A!
This is the real question. finding materials and workers? Easy. Finding someone familiar enough with load bearing, masonry, who knows how to construct wooden cranes? How tf did Sauron find engineers?
Before Sauron took up allegiance to Morgoth he was a Maiar of Aule, the god of knowledge and crafting with stones and metals. So before we knew him he was a deity who knew how to work with metals and stones. I'm sure it was relatively easy for him to come up with the plans and specs and could have trusted captains to oversee and take care of the day to day stuff. Plus he poured a lot of his magical essence into the fortress. Gondor was able to take down the tower but was unable to remove the foundation because of that magic. Plus he not only had orcs in his forces. He employed men from the east and the Nazgul were also men of great importance before they turned. There's probably a couple of them who knew what they were doing and could take care of the finer details of the equipment while the orcs did the actual back breaking labor. Just like today, the people who design and build the construction equipment are not the same people using it. Once the machines are built and the plans laid out, I'm sure he had enough smartish orcs that could learn "twist this this way to go up, this way to go down. Turn this to go right, turn that to go left"
Well I know that. But Sauron isnt corporeal after the second age. How is he making these plans? Are Haradrim and Rhunnic engineers the ones planning Barad-dur? Did Sauron sit over their shoulder and say "Oh make it uh, spikier. And I'll need a spot for my eye. "
He tied his spirit to a piece of gold and has been alive for thousands of years, even died a time or two. I think you're putting way too much thought into this. Edit: plus the Nazgul were tied to his will. They know what he wants and can communicate with him just fine
>I think you're putting way too much thought into this. I dont think you are putting enough thought into this. Do the Nazgul sit in meetings with Haradrim engineers? Do Orcs give reports about progress, project needs, etc. How are the men paid? Do the Orcs farm the lands around the sea of Nurnen? Does Sauron trade excess crops for gold which is used to fund projects like Barad-dur? Who keeps track of the treasury? The mouth of Sauron? the Witch King of Angmar? Maybe Khamul?
I'm interested in this too. Fictional stories handwave a lot of things because we don't need to see a traveling fellowship dig holes to shit in or talk to bureaucrats to buy traveling visas. But I've always wanted to know these details cause its really interesting to me.
Sauron was super OCD and the orcs had serial numbers. It's very likely that the Dark Tower was staffed with not just generals and sorcerers, but administrators and bureaucrats who carried out the tasks of governance as Sauron dictated. The Nazgul were basically VPs and the Mouth was Sauron's PA in this context.
What we want is an Office-style show about middle managers working for Sauron. Or even an Office Space-like movie!
That's a movie invention. In the context of discussing Sauron in the third age in letter #246 Tolkien describes him as " Sauron should be thought of as very terrible, in form a man of more than human stature (but not gigantic)." Gollum also mentions that Sauron only has four fingers on one hand, seemingly unable to re-grow the finger he lost when Isildur cut the One from his hand. "Yes, He has only four fingers on the Black Hand, but they are enough." There are also references in both books and letters to Sauron coming or going places. So yes, he could have sat down at a table and drawn up some CAD files for Barad-dur 2.0 without having to work through a go-between
>"Yes, He has only four fingers on the Black Hand, but they are enough." Now I have this image in my head of Sauron sitting on a couch with a pimp cane and Gollum as his hype guy going "he's only got 4 finger on his black hand, but they're enough for all them bitches".
Plassse thissss sssstone over heeeere.
Black Numenoreans, humans, undead and many unspoken things are servants of Sauron. Not only orcs.
Like the other guy said, he was a student (servant?) Of Aule, so his craftsmanship is probably very good. Especially regarding rings.
In the hobbit it's talked about how Goblins are very clever blacksmiths and are great at machinery.
Man, I'd love to have a poke about in there. I mean I wouldn't because I doubt the homeowner would be very keen on me as one of those filthy, debased hildor. But I'd be so into all the boring minutiae of how a fallen angel's terror fortress works. Where do the orcs sleep? What are the shift rotations? How is labour divided? Who looks after the fell beasts when the wraiths are busy with paperwork or whatever? Where do you go when you gotta go? Edit: now I can't stop thinking about this stuff. Are there spaces for cultural expression? Gathering areas to eat and drink, perhaps stages for music or great murals or tapestries? What IS orc culture? Presumably the humans of Sauron's domains have a presence there as well? Do they mingle with the orcs or do the two species keep to themselves? Do families live in the tower? Are their schools or places of worship? These things will haunt me...
The executive toilet is 100% right there on the top! I would plan it like that... every time you gotta go you can just overlook all that you accomplished and maybe also look for some little dude that has your ring
Does Sauron poop?
Knowing Tolkien, this is probably answered somewhere in the Appendices or the Silmarillion.
I read the Silmarillion and I can confirme you....that I don't remember/understand 95% of what I read so I can't help for this interrogation.
A fellow man of literature!
Sauron had his appendices removed. Doesn’t affect his ability to poop though.
Hahahahaha.
Everybody Poops
Cut to... Elrond on the bowl in in Rivendell, engrossed in the Elven Times while Galadriel bangs on the door for him to hurry it up
‘Secret Council’
Damn, out of elven TP “Damn it Arwen! You left the paper tube! How much effort is it to replace the roll!?”
100% they plumbed the river Bruinen up to create the most magical Elven bidets imaginable.
Even Feanor?
Corprolite gemstones of unsurpassed craftsmanship and beauty.
Melkor couldn’t even hold them in his hand because they came out too hot.
Even *Luthien*
Don’t be ridiculous. Luthien doesn’t poop.
Does she pick up Huan’s poop?
Probably depended on the form that he chose. Gandalf was an incarnated Maiar and could enjoy things like food and tobacco. Sauron probably chose to have as few "bodily functions" as possible when he could help it, though; I imagine he thought they were disgusting. But while he was a "captive" in Numenor, he more than likely had to be as human as he could be.
I would totall love to bring myself up there just to let all the shit slide down the whole height of this tower.
Like an episode of undercover boss and Sauron just parading as an orc to see how his dark duties are being fulfilled 😅
Don't you mean "Dark doodies"?
How are large quantities of material moved up and down the tower? Is there an internal pulley/lift system or just those little cranes on the sides? Who keeps the torches and hearths lit? What does the boss's room look like? Who's in charge of food prep and distribution?
Pretty sure cranes are visible in the picture lol
Did... you read that whole sentence?
Hell no
This thread is spectacular
How many bed/bath is this and does it come with only one fully equipped kitchen? Is the primary bedroom an entire floor of the tower? Is his room set up like an executive apartment? Does Sauron prefer silky or rough-woven sheets? Does he have a staff of orc chefs or are they human slaves? Lots of things I could learn by a quick tour.
A Barad-Tour
Putin…I mean Sauron uses seven different floors and three body doubles to fool the visiting dignitaries.
“Hi, we represent the Union for Corrupted and Fallen Creations of Ilúvatar. We’re just gonna have a look around. We know you’ve been in a non-corporeal form for the last few millennia, but it is important that we conduct these surprise inspections regularly to ensure you’re still complying with the current contract.” Edit: corrected the creator
Makes me wonder who designed it. Is Sauron an architect too? Or does the interior look like an office building, just straight grids and rooms. Imagine if the contracted some orc genius to design it for maximum feng shui and open space.
>when the wraiths are busy with paperwork Gave me the first proper laugh out loud on reddit in weeks. I'm still cry laughing like an idiot.
Founding Witch-realms and evil cities isn’t all screaming and looking cool
Where is their cafeteria with menus?
About 3 years or so lol https://preview.redd.it/p7vn1pr640zb1.jpeg?width=2240&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c120d82991443fbec237646808abb0deecd8279
Amazing work!
I hope the set we’re getting next year is half as good as your moc
Cool painting who made it?
Nvm I found it, Steve firchow, shadow of war concept stuff
Appreciate you coming back to post the source after doing the leg work
The hero we all need
That’s honestly one of the most interesting questions I’ve ever wondered about: what the fuck does it look like *inside* Barad-Dûr? There’s no text saying anything about it, and I’m genuinely curious, what is it like?? I imagine it’s like…pretty active, right? Whereas Minas Morgul is probably pretty quiet, generally. Like, orcs move around and stuff but the Nazgûl probably don’t move when not engaged by Sauron. They’re probably mostly just sitting/standing around in silence, undead and waiting for orders, while orcs shuffle about in the lower chambers preparing for the war. Since the Nazgûl don’t “live” in Barad-Dûr, there’s probably only Sauron, the Mouth, and his strongest orc generals who actually live there. Maybe Gothmog? Idk, what does everyone think?? I may even make this a whole post, cuz I wanna hear everybody’s opinion
The Dark Lord has a lot of human servants, I suppose his fortress becomes more "human" in its population the more you move up. Probably a lot of Black Numenoreans.
Hmmm, a fair observation! What do you think it’s like for the Men? Like, do you think they replicate the old hierarchies of Numenor? Or is it like a crazy intricate hierarchy of betrayal and espionage for Sauron’s benefit and everybody in Barad-Dûr is fighting each other for his favor, unaware that ultimately he’s just using them for his own gain?
Typical condos with full amenities including torture chambers (lots of fun!) sub leased at a decent company rate to all occupants. What a privilege working for ~~Jeff Bezos~~ Sauron the Great
I don't think they just stand around. The Witchking brought Arnor to its knees eventhough Sauron wasn't around, right? They probably still pursue sth of a personal agenda during 'time off'.
I remember that it was made of "adamant." Does anyone know if that's a specific material, or more just of a descriptor of the tower's strength?
I think Adamant was middle english word for diamond and other stones of similar hardness, in fact I think Galadrials ring Nenya was the ring of Adamant, made of a white stone and Mithril
I think Bilbo's song/poem thing in the first book mentions a Dunedain (Aragorn?) with a Adamant helm as well.
Not even rune? Sauron was such a noob
Dragon >>>
Sauron is f2p
Probably just a descriptor. The tower of Orthanc and the outer walls of Minas Tirith are noted as being made of some near-indestructible black stone. Those were made by the Numenorians, and I’m not sure if Sauron would have been able to achieve the same
It’s partly held up by ‘magic’ isn’t it? I mean, it falls when the ring is destroyed. I’ve always imagined it as a supernatural construction that can only exist because of a ‘cheat’.
It’s 5000 feet tall and would be impossible to construct with normal materials and techniques. A building that large just can’t exist in a world with similar gravity to Earth
Give me some cereal boxes and loo rolls and I’d crack it.
if we compare it to Rome, more then a day
Neither were built in a day though right? Edit: ignore me, I’m dumb.
Slaves did Barad-dûr Jeremy. Thousands and thousands of slaves.
I think it was mostly drywall. So I'm guessing a few months.
Yes, it was on one of those DIY programs.
God I love the design of this. The multiple layers, getting taller and taller, like Minas Tirith, the spikes that aren't just "hurh durh evil" but actually fit the overall aesthetics, the cliff phasing through, and stuff like cranes and lifts on the side of the tower to repair stuff. It's just all great
Also what the hell is in there? I mean, that place is friggin huge. Are some of them offices? Or are they all torture chambers and shit
Long enough
So many questions. Do they outsource their accounting? Feel like Deloitte would be all over that. What’s their HCM/OrcCM? Workday? Orcsoft?
I've never read the whole thread before lol. This is hilarious
And most importantly, does it have elevators?
Once it was made, how exactly did his eye get up there?
The eye isn't really a physical eye on top of a tower that is all PJ shit. In the LOTR , the most we really get about the big S, is just descriptions. Some of them describe how he is actively searching for the ring, to those in the unseen it would appear as a giant lid less eye that was looking this way and that. He still has a full body, with the exception of his ring finger.
By the aesthetic choices of Peter Jackson, apparently. I haven't read the books, but I keep hearing the eye wasn't part of Tolkien's vision.
Yes and no. The eye isn't a physical thing in the books, but we do get plenty of mentions of the "great lidless eye" that is always searching.
Thanks for the explanation!
Lovely looking accomodations! I want to book a suite with views of Orodruin! Nothing like the smell of Sulfur and Ash in the morning!