Ah. Interesting. That raises the stakes for this imo. Because now the movie has a greater responsibility to faithfulness than if it were a non canon side thing.
I feel like it is the opposite. This *only* needs to keep with the canon as established with the Jackson continuity, which already is accepted for its choices and deviations.
We'll find out that he had it commissioned to boost his ego and he'll pose in front of it [like Timothy Dalton in Hot Fuzz](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMDRlNzMzNzItOWU0YS00NjViLWI3YmQtNjdmZTQ4YWM2YjJkXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyOTc5MDI5NjE@._V1_.jpg)
I will play the Devil's Advocate: this is not just attention to detail but **access to License**.
War of the Rohirrim and The Hunt for Gollum films are produced by New Line, with Peter Jackson staying on as the producer. That means their teams have full access to the original designs, props, set photos etc.
The Rings of Power show is produced separately. They *claim* they're making a prequel to the movies in the promotional interviews, but legally speaking they are not. For every single item, location, costume or creature from the movies that they decide to include, they legally **must** introduce design changes so that they don't look identical.
Even if the same WETA is tasked with actual manufactuing and digital effects, they designs they use are not allowed to be *the* same.
Yes. Miranda Otto is the narrator, Philippa Boyens is the producer, PJ is an executive producer, New Line/Warner sponsors the whole thing.
The animation crew had a direct line to WETA to receive any material from the trilogy that they required to maintain visual continuity.
Yep! It's 26 episodes, so it only covers the first novel, I think? There's also a live action series, which I haven't seen.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moribito:\_Guardian\_of\_the\_Spirit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moribito:_Guardian_of_the_Spirit)
Can’t speak for everyone but I feel like the plot for this one is far easier to adapt to film than what Rings of power is trying to do. Like rings of power is basically condensing 3000 years of second age history into a human lifespan, not a great start to making something lore accurate.
Yea but the story of Helm is easily adaptable rather than the whole ass second age imo. At least that’s how I see it.
Ig i could’ve phrased my first comment better, I feel like this is a smaller more contained story that makes for a better movie. Than biting off more than you can chew with adapting the second age, which I feel like rings of power did.
>The animation crew had a direct line to WETA to receive any material from the trilogy that they required to maintain visual continuity.
I need to revise my little collage of the Lord of the Rings-Hobbit alumini on the production, because its increasingly turning into a who's-who of them, now with Jackson, Walsh, Emmerich and others being added to the roster, and many more cropping up in Stephen Gallagher's socials who may or may not be working on the piece.
[Peter Jackson Says Amazon’s ‘Lord of the Rings’ TV Series Ghosted Him](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/peter-jackson-amazon-lord-of-the-rings-tv-series-1235193692/)
[This](https://screenrant.com/lotr-rings-of-power-tolkien-estate-peter-jackson/) says it was for creative reasons, but it’s well known that Christopher Tolkien didn’t like Jackson’s adaptation of LOTR.
I think this is more at the behest of Simon Tolkien, who is a different Tolkien altogether from what I've heard.
I think Christopher's issues with Jackson's films were the departures they took. Simon's issues were that they were "too faithful"
Simon says he liked Fellowship of the Ring, so I'm not sure what was going on there.
If the estate has any say, they have now been able to witness what another party would do with the property compared to Jackson
I don't really agree with that. I think Jackson's unfaithfullness is just less visible as it it better written. RoP digressions are so plain because they are so stupid.
Elrond is one example where PJ was not anywhere close the books, but RoP is completely on point.
It doesn't even have to look the same. Films' Balrog is Jackson's vision, another film/series based on the book does't need to look exactly the same to be faithful to the *original* (I'm not claiming that RoP is, but it doesn't need to copy Jackson's style either).
Was that the case for how Sauron looked in the show? I think he was shown in like a reflection and looked very similar to Jackson’s version but perhaps there were meaningful differences.
It's much worse with RoP. They do not have access to the Silmarillion and most of the other stuff that is not LotR and its addendums.
They are blowing up paragraphs and even sentences into thousands of words long fanfiction. Multiplied by "Disney Star Wars" treatment of really dumb fan-service.
>ROP is trash as we can all agree.
Not trash at all - amazing soundtrack, great acting and dialogue, stunning FX and visuals - I don’t like some of the decisions they made (mithril), but it’s still solid. I’m looking forward to season two, for sure.
I'm not as negative about ROP as most people here, but I don't think the dialog was particularly great. It took some risks and tried to make too many lines feel memorable when there wasn't the narrative weight to back the moment up. Still looking forward to S2
I'm a bit more lenient with characters like Galadriel and Elrond because having them go 5 seasons without major character development would simply make for a bad show, even if it's more thematically accurate.
My hope is that we see Galadriel make a shift from aggressively hunting evil, to protecting and preserving the elves, which is in line with the themes of her eventual home, Lothlorien. I feel like the show already is moving there with her sacrificing Finrod's dagger to make the 3 elven rings, ostensibly giving up the physical representation of her hunt for the enemy to preserve the light of the elves.
Similarly we see in S1 a mildly disrespected yet 'kind as summer' Elrond, who eventually needs to become Elrond, Lord of Imladris, leading elven armies in the last alliance.
I disliked it even as a generic fantasy show. I don't know enough about early ME lore to catch a ton of lore errors, so I viewed it as a "LOTR-ish" show. And I just couldn't get emotionally invested in any of the characters or plot.
Personally I'm kinda stupid so I'm just impressed by the dialogue if it sounds memorable enough and has rythm. ROP has that sorta thing so I went like "WHOAAAA"
I only stopped watching it because people said it was bad. Maybe I'm a bit shallow.
This comes from a guy who liked Rise of Skywalker when it came out in cinemas and only changed his opinion because of others so that should tell you about how easy it is to impress me.
I mostly thought the dialog took risks, not that it was all bad.
Like saying 'we will wipe the enemy from our land like salt from a table' is an awkward, stilted line and was delivered when trying to hastily construct an escape plan for the elves imprisoned by Adar.
On a more positive note, Durin III saying 'there can be no trust between hammer and rock, sooner or later one must break' was delivered well and felt impactful.
I have autism with... some other issues, so I have no idea what lines are awkward or stilted hahahah. You're talking to someone who thought the dialogue in the star wars prequels were shakespeare quality.
Yeah the show has its good points.
> amazing soundtrack
It was ok at best.
>great acting and dialogue
Snarling galadriel and cringe lines like "I am good", "The sea is always right", "Do you know why a ship floats and a stone cannot? Because the stone sees only downward." "You have not seen what i have seen", "there is a tempest in me" is what you call great acting and dialogue?
>stunning FX and visuals
Armor looked terrible, most scenes looked like they just stood on a set and the final battle looked like the battle of Bumfuck 2 kilometers north of Brighton.
It was terrible, even if not compared against the movie trilogy.
Idk what you were seeing but the acting and dialogue was subpar, at best. The sets and costumes looked cheap and like something you'd expect from a high school theater, only the orcs looked good. The instantaneous distances traveled made no sense, and caused the world to feel very small.
I could go on if I tried, but it was such a forgettable show I forget half the reasons it was so bad. They had half a *BILLION* to play with and made a 2 or 3 out of 10 show, anyone involved in executive decisions for its production should be ashamed of how it came out.
Sounds like the dialogue went over your head, you don’t recognize good acting, and you have a shit tv so couldn’t see the beautiful costumes and magnificent sets (plenty of which surpass Jackson’s trilogy.
The issue you have with traveling sounds like you’re comparing it to The Hobbit and LOTR, where both have traveling for a quest as the central theme. If that’s not the case, I imagine you struggle with your average police procedural that shows cops hearing about a crime at the station, saying “Let’s go,” then showing up at the crime scene.
“I don’t understand - did they miss all of the traffic? Did they get gas on the way over??? How did this happen??”
-You
I'm not the person you replied to, but some of the dialogue did strike home for me, especially when Galadriel speaks to Theo. Finally we get to see some of the wise and kind Galadriel peek out from under her revenge and hopefully that's where her character development will continue to lead.
"Hope is never mere, even when it is meager" also struck me as a very Tolkien-esque sentiment, and I liked the callback in the last episode.
There are definitely some misses but I tried to give the show the benefit of the doubt and found I enjoyed a good part of it.
And of course, "Give me the meat and give it to me raw" is a highlight haha
Outside of Elrond and the all the dwarves, and perhaps the leader of the uruks. everything was really bad. The visuals were good but pretty scenery does not make a show/movie, just try to think of the plot of the newest avatar movie and find what you enjoyed there. Nothing memorable really right? just mid acting and storytelling with a predictable plot.
The music by Howard shore at the opening of the show is the only good song imo. Which doesn’t make sense why he was excluded from the rest.
If the story lines of Galadriel, Gandalf, Sauron, isildur, the hobbits and the elf/ human love story were cut you may have a good show.
I gave the show a really good go, hoping the show would get better episode after episode, that perhaps the character story arcs just needed to grow. By episode 6 sadly it I found it will never be a good show. Good show, Meaning a show you go back and watch and are excited to talk about with other people. You think about it and quote lines. This is Just your average sci fi channel movie from the 90s.
Its not just the throne. Meduseld, Isengard, the Hornburg all appear in this film and they're all carbon-copied from their live-action counterparts, which in some cases involved a detail-exhaustive archival sweep of Weta and Jackson's production companies.
If anything, I'm disappointed by this. Sure, it's great they took the time, etc etc. But we've been using the Jackson designs for LOTR literally for 20 years now.
The only new, big budget art we've gotten has been from Magic the Gathering.
I really hoped this anime would give us something different, to take advantage of the medium to try something unique.
The problem is that PJ took Alan Lee and John Howe with some inspiration from Ted Nasmith to design his middle earth; and for many people those three names also influenced their vision of middle-earth.
It’s going to be a long time before we get a new version of Hobbiton.
This is probably an unpopular opinion on this board that holds the PJ movies in such high esteem (for good reason), but I'd rather this movies wasn't like this.
The PJ movies have a great aesthetic and interpretation of the universe but thats just one. Before the movies art of the books used to come in all sorts of different styles. Most things since have been quite homogenized and I wish we'd get some movies that take a different approach.
While I absolutely agree on principle, I also rejoice in the direction to make the visuals on par with the movies, just because the movies do such an amazing job at that. Very few fantasy works today, in my opinion, manage to mix fantasy, history, practicality and beauty as well as WETA, Howe and Lee did. Were it given another direction, I'm afraid the animation team would lever a bit too heavily into modernesque D&D territory.
A different interpretation would be interesting, but from the discussion around this movie, it sounds like going with an anime style is already too much of a departure for many people to swallow. I think grounding it in an interpretation that has already been seen and generally praised is probably a smart move from a commercial perspective.
I agree with you. I absolutely love the [LOTRO interpretation of Meduseld](https://lotro-wiki.com/wiki/Meduseld), and Rohan in general. It's very faithful to the book but totally different from Alan Lee and John Howe's work in the PJ films. I guess it helps when it's a totally digital building and you can make it as big as you like.
I love the Lotro world its a bit dated now but so much nostalgia for Bree, the Lone Lands, Barrow downs, Weather top, Rivendell. I never played the Rohan expansion unfortunately.
The graphics improved SO much between the Mirkwood and Rise of Isengard expansions (when I joined) and the later Rohan and Gondor expansions. The old areas still look dated, but the detail in the newer ones blew me away. Once you get to the Limlight Gorge and down into Rohan, suddenly the moon has phases, and the greenery and landscape has so much detail compared to the Shire! And you can explore Dol Amroth, Pelargir, Lossarnach, Lebennin, the Paths of the Dead, Anorien, and all of these parts of Gondor that are missing from the Jackson films. Each one has its own vibe.
As an aside, do you know any good resources for seeing other artistic takes on Middle-Earth? I've tried looking it up before, but I mostly only find stuff from the movies or inspired by them.
Off handed I don't know of any resources per say, I do have favorite artists that have some extensive collections [Ted Nasmith](https://www.tednasmith.com/site-map/j-r-r-tolkien/) my favorite being his Silmarillion paintings particularly his Gondolin art and [John Howe](https://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/) famous for his Fingolfin against Morgoth painting.
I see your point, but the fact of the matter is the only major Tolkien media we're getting in the forseeable future is either by Jackson (The War of the Rohirrim, The Hunt for Gollum) or its trying to look like its by him (The Rings of Power).
Of those are the only two viable options, then I'm picking the one that's actually by Jackson - even merely as executive producer - than the doppleganger.
Yea that was kinda my point I was hoping the anime movie at least would take a totally different style choice because everything else is going to be the same or mimicing it.
(Not talking about the black Aragorn not the point) The Magic the Gathering set had a lot of cool different styles from armor, locations, orcs, goblins to Sauron and then the alternative arts that really leaned more into a stranger style. It was refreshing to get something like that. Harkened back to some of the old epic scale pre-movies art work.
Its slightly different which I like, the orcs in particular are fantastic some of the most disgusting and monstrous orcs we've gotten. They are still definitely trying to somewhat mimic the PJ style though. Its harder to differentiate in live action though which is why I thought the anime would be our best chance to get something totally different.
I'd call it slightly different but they are definitely pulling a similar style in. Animated I just saw as a chance to do something completely different.
Wait, so is the image on the left believed to be a depiction of King Theoden? I dig the interpretation if so.
Edit: wait nvm, I see it takes place 200 years earlier. I was thinking maybe this would be a shot of Theoden, Eowyn and Eomer in Edoras at the beginning to set up the narration. But who knows.
Edit 2: WAIT ITS HELM HAMMERHAND ON THE LEFT!? I’m so hyped now.
Anime isn't a genre it's a medium of story telling which has a lot of potential. Althou that depends on if this isn't some shitty cash grab with bad writing.
It will be good. The director is a great anime filmmaker and the voice acting will feature actually good actors compared to shitty modern anime dub artists that use childish exaggerated voices
I just hope this isn’t that newer crappy anime style that basically computer animated but made to look like it’s hand drawn. But it does kind of look like that…
Whilst I really like the look of the new film, it isn't really hard to get right something when you literally have the rights to the props and photos of the originals, is it?
I am so fucking sick of the recycling of popular culture. God for-fucking-bid anybody working on any kind of moving picture take a risk or have a single original god-damned thought.
For everyone screaming "But Anime is bad!" for once, stop being ignorant and sit down for a minute.
Anime is just a format. This wont have little girls in shorty pink skirts and cardboard MCs.
It's like being upset that a movie is being released on Netflix instead of Theater. It's a format.
Dota 2 chose anime as their format for their TV show and frankly it turned out unexpectedly good.
I've watched through it 4 times now with 3 different people who have NEVER seen anything dota 2 in their life, and they all thought it was great.
We NEED more good Fantasy anime. Vinland Saga and Dota Dragon's Blood and Record of Lodoss War are all very good at this kind of thing but it's still rare. A Lord of the Rings anime with real backing and effort behind it will not be magical girl uwu kitty girl.
It will be a compitent and good show if people give their real effort to make it so. And it wont fall into the pitfall of overbudgeting on high quality overly clean cast and costume and set design.
Anime will let them create whatever they need so they can actually work on good design.
And from the looks of the screenshots, they're headed in that direction.
Give it a damn chance.
I know Rings of Power was a letdown, but that doesn't mean use a live action show to judge an anime production.
Some of the best TV shows and movies I've ever seen have been anime, so relax and give it a shot. Approach with an open mind.
>For everyone screaming "But Anime is bad!" for once, stop being ignorant and sit down for a minute.
Anime has done itself no favors as a genre/medium. I actually like a lot of anime shows. But even in the shows that I do like, it's a minefield trying to recommend it to friends because it comes with a million "hey this part is weird but just ignore it" scenes. I think the only shows I've been able to recommend to people with 0 caveats are FMA Brotherhood, Baccano, and Edgerunners.
I don't blame anyone for looking at the art style and saying "I'm out".
Well, to be honest, no it's not.
The ***writing*** is everything.
I honestly wouldn't notice or care if the consistency wasn't precise, but the script for this *has* to be solid.
Just waiting for the eventual 'bait and switch' making it about the King's daughter and how she's the key player... I'm so burned by the poor quality and handling of my favorite IP"s of late I can't even get excited about this without some sort of trepidation kicking in.
I was curious too but afaik this is the description:
> At the far end of the house, beyond the hearth and facing north towards the doors, was a dais with three steps; and in the middle of the dais was a great gilded chair.
This is cool. I will also repeat myself in saying the amount of hate this movie’s receiving from so-called Tolkien fans before a second of footage has even been released is astonishing. I’m excited for more Tolkien on the big screen.
The drawing on the left is Helm Hammerhand, the last of the first line of kings of Rohan. It is from an upcoming movie called LOTR: The War of the Rohirrim.
This is a shitpost, right? No way you're glazing them for tracing. Like, your mind is gonna be blown when you see how 99% of anime is able to perfectly reproduce the details of Japanese cities.
The cash grab was in reference to how they changed from live action to anime and the amazonification of ROP. Randomly naming a film that did well at the box office doesnt make any sense and doesnt make a point.
My point is, in other film series, there's a sense that - as long as the series is good, its not a cash-grab; and fancy this: people preferred to assume it will be good, rather than automatically assume it would suck.
The Amazon show has nothing to do with this: this discussion is about the film series. So they made it anime: how is that any more or less cash-grabb-y than live-action?
LOTR and animation makes a lot of sense. The artwork can keep up with the imagination of Tolkien’s world. Kenji Kamiyama is a tried and true good director and animator who definitely put a lot of effort and attention to detail in this project. It will feature good actors voicing it. Honestly, ROP should’ve been animated as well
yes, i know and i love them. i grew up watching them. seems like peter jackson got a lot of inspiration from both rankin & bass and the bakshi films thanks for proving my point.
When you have someone who cares about the story, and respects it, you have a product like the LOTR films. It is not often we get that. How many times do we see franchise IP and things are just completely wrong?
Lord of the anime... lame
Edit: thanks for all the downvotes for having a different opinion than yours 😂 Sorry I'm not looking forward to smth that isn't going to compare to my 3 fave movies.
So, is this film supposed to be in continuity with the Jackson Trilogy/Hobbit Films? I assumed it was just a separate thing.
Correct. Same cinematic universe as Jackson’s movies
Ah. Interesting. That raises the stakes for this imo. Because now the movie has a greater responsibility to faithfulness than if it were a non canon side thing.
Incidentally, this story will explain why the Hornburg's location is named Helm's Deep. Before that I don't recall the gorge having a particular name.
I’m definitely looking forward to seeing Helm Hammerhand punch some dudes to death.
I’m skeptical because in this picture his hands both seem to be made of hand, not of hammers. Unwatchable.
He’s gonna evolve when the red day comes
Nah the red day is clearly a sword day, you want a green day for hammers
We don't see all of his left hand. And he is not called HammerhandS, they can still pull it off!
I believe it was called the Suthberg or something
They should do a scene where the name "Suthberg" appears on screen then disappears and is replaced with "Helm's Deep".
Sir. This not Amazon
It had, it was called Súthburg.
You're saying that like you've seen the gorge BEFORE the Hornburg was built! 😄
I feel like it is the opposite. This *only* needs to keep with the canon as established with the Jackson continuity, which already is accepted for its choices and deviations.
Amazing. Was already excited for the release now that’s some extra hype.
So when are we getting a LOTR multiverse and 3 different versions of Frodo that all have a different sidekick?
It takes place 200 years earlier so I'm not sure what continuity really means here
Visual continuity for one. Edoras, Hornburg etc. will look exactly the same,
A small part of me would hope not *exactly* the same, as I would hope minor changes in 200 years for normal-lived humans, but very close
I don't think the statue commemorating Helm Hammerhand will be there yet.
Helms deep in general looks like shit in two towers in that it’s very old. Excited to see it looking new.
Don't be. It predates Rohan's existence and was already old when they moved in there.
Of course. Those horse lords can’t build shit. Numenor built it or what?
Yes, it is originally a Westernesse stronghold.
So Saruman destroyed a historical site, what a dick
We'll find out that he had it commissioned to boost his ego and he'll pose in front of it [like Timothy Dalton in Hot Fuzz](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMDRlNzMzNzItOWU0YS00NjViLWI3YmQtNjdmZTQ4YWM2YjJkXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyOTc5MDI5NjE@._V1_.jpg)
Rohan doesn’t have nukes.
I will play the Devil's Advocate: this is not just attention to detail but **access to License**. War of the Rohirrim and The Hunt for Gollum films are produced by New Line, with Peter Jackson staying on as the producer. That means their teams have full access to the original designs, props, set photos etc. The Rings of Power show is produced separately. They *claim* they're making a prequel to the movies in the promotional interviews, but legally speaking they are not. For every single item, location, costume or creature from the movies that they decide to include, they legally **must** introduce design changes so that they don't look identical. Even if the same WETA is tasked with actual manufactuing and digital effects, they designs they use are not allowed to be *the* same.
So the anime will be an official prequel to Jackson's films?
Yes. Miranda Otto is the narrator, Philippa Boyens is the producer, PJ is an executive producer, New Line/Warner sponsors the whole thing. The animation crew had a direct line to WETA to receive any material from the trilogy that they required to maintain visual continuity.
wow. this seems promising!
Not to mention the direct involvement of both Alan Lee and John Howe in the animation. I'm pumped.
The visuals those two made for the movies were so amazing
The director looks promising to, he's directed some *Ghost in the Shell* stuff and worked in the art department for *Akira*
You had my curiosity, but now you have my attention.
Take my money already goddammit
He also did Moribito, one of the best high fantasy anime series.
Waitwaitwait. There's a Moribito series? As in an adaptation of Nahoko Uehashi's novels?
Yep! It's 26 episodes, so it only covers the first novel, I think? There's also a live action series, which I haven't seen. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moribito:\_Guardian\_of\_the\_Spirit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moribito:_Guardian_of_the_Spirit)
I loved that show. But damn, that slug eating was disgusting. (and can also kill you)
You have no idea how much better all this info makes me feel about the film. I’m genuinely excited!
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Can’t speak for everyone but I feel like the plot for this one is far easier to adapt to film than what Rings of power is trying to do. Like rings of power is basically condensing 3000 years of second age history into a human lifespan, not a great start to making something lore accurate.
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Yea but the story of Helm is easily adaptable rather than the whole ass second age imo. At least that’s how I see it. Ig i could’ve phrased my first comment better, I feel like this is a smaller more contained story that makes for a better movie. Than biting off more than you can chew with adapting the second age, which I feel like rings of power did.
That also means whatever they make up doesn't need to be lore accurate since there's nothing to contradict it. It just needs to be good
>The animation crew had a direct line to WETA to receive any material from the trilogy that they required to maintain visual continuity. I need to revise my little collage of the Lord of the Rings-Hobbit alumini on the production, because its increasingly turning into a who's-who of them, now with Jackson, Walsh, Emmerich and others being added to the roster, and many more cropping up in Stephen Gallagher's socials who may or may not be working on the piece.
What did I miss? When is this coming out?
December 13 in the US.
Whaaat, that's incredible. I haven't been following this too closely. Love that our 'Eowyn' is the narrator!
LETS. FUCKING. GO. I HATE AMAZON. THEIR SHOW LOOKS LIKE A DISNEY RIDE. LETS GOOOOO.
This is correct. Warner Bros and Amazon have different licensing rights.
I was going to say this is **Peter Jackson doing their homework for them**
Yep, bang on.
You said "New Line" and it's immediately like...you know how you can [hear](https://youtu.be/LEYxHiE4ryk?si=otfht7wT-pA2x-5Y) words?
They also lied and said they consulted with Jackson a lot for the show when in reality they contacted him once iirc and then ghosted him
When did they say that?
[Peter Jackson Says Amazon’s ‘Lord of the Rings’ TV Series Ghosted Him](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/peter-jackson-amazon-lord-of-the-rings-tv-series-1235193692/)
The Tolkien Estate did not want Jackson involved with ROP.
Weird choice, was it a contractual/licensing thing? That has to be it, I'd think it'd be dumb to be like "nah, we hate that dude"
[This](https://screenrant.com/lotr-rings-of-power-tolkien-estate-peter-jackson/) says it was for creative reasons, but it’s well known that Christopher Tolkien didn’t like Jackson’s adaptation of LOTR.
I think this is more at the behest of Simon Tolkien, who is a different Tolkien altogether from what I've heard. I think Christopher's issues with Jackson's films were the departures they took. Simon's issues were that they were "too faithful"
Yes, I should’ve been clearer. Christopher didn’t like the adaptation, Simon felt differently and it caused tension, IIRC.
Simon says he liked Fellowship of the Ring, so I'm not sure what was going on there. If the estate has any say, they have now been able to witness what another party would do with the property compared to Jackson
Peter Jackson's films are far more faithful to books than Rings of Power.
I don't really agree with that. I think Jackson's unfaithfullness is just less visible as it it better written. RoP digressions are so plain because they are so stupid. Elrond is one example where PJ was not anywhere close the books, but RoP is completely on point.
Speak through a medium to Christopher Tolkien, I guess. Let him know how ya feel.
I mean the showrunners claiming they had consulted PJ a lot.
That explains why the ROP balrog/Durin's Bane looked very similar but ever so slightly different from the movie version
It doesn't even have to look the same. Films' Balrog is Jackson's vision, another film/series based on the book does't need to look exactly the same to be faithful to the *original* (I'm not claiming that RoP is, but it doesn't need to copy Jackson's style either).
Both are copying John Howe's style.
What's faithful to the original, wings or no wings on Sean?
At least it's not wearing fuzzy slippers.
Was that the case for how Sauron looked in the show? I think he was shown in like a reflection and looked very similar to Jackson’s version but perhaps there were meaningful differences.
It's much worse with RoP. They do not have access to the Silmarillion and most of the other stuff that is not LotR and its addendums. They are blowing up paragraphs and even sentences into thousands of words long fanfiction. Multiplied by "Disney Star Wars" treatment of really dumb fan-service.
Yes but ROP is trash as we can all agree. Let us hope that the bilge ROP created inspires good content in WOTR.
>ROP is trash as we can all agree. Not trash at all - amazing soundtrack, great acting and dialogue, stunning FX and visuals - I don’t like some of the decisions they made (mithril), but it’s still solid. I’m looking forward to season two, for sure.
I'm not as negative about ROP as most people here, but I don't think the dialog was particularly great. It took some risks and tried to make too many lines feel memorable when there wasn't the narrative weight to back the moment up. Still looking forward to S2
As a generic fantasy show, it was great. As a Middle Earth, Tolkien story, it was terrible. Galadriel was just about character assassination...
I'm a bit more lenient with characters like Galadriel and Elrond because having them go 5 seasons without major character development would simply make for a bad show, even if it's more thematically accurate. My hope is that we see Galadriel make a shift from aggressively hunting evil, to protecting and preserving the elves, which is in line with the themes of her eventual home, Lothlorien. I feel like the show already is moving there with her sacrificing Finrod's dagger to make the 3 elven rings, ostensibly giving up the physical representation of her hunt for the enemy to preserve the light of the elves. Similarly we see in S1 a mildly disrespected yet 'kind as summer' Elrond, who eventually needs to become Elrond, Lord of Imladris, leading elven armies in the last alliance.
I disliked it even as a generic fantasy show. I don't know enough about early ME lore to catch a ton of lore errors, so I viewed it as a "LOTR-ish" show. And I just couldn't get emotionally invested in any of the characters or plot.
Personally I'm kinda stupid so I'm just impressed by the dialogue if it sounds memorable enough and has rythm. ROP has that sorta thing so I went like "WHOAAAA" I only stopped watching it because people said it was bad. Maybe I'm a bit shallow. This comes from a guy who liked Rise of Skywalker when it came out in cinemas and only changed his opinion because of others so that should tell you about how easy it is to impress me.
I mostly thought the dialog took risks, not that it was all bad. Like saying 'we will wipe the enemy from our land like salt from a table' is an awkward, stilted line and was delivered when trying to hastily construct an escape plan for the elves imprisoned by Adar. On a more positive note, Durin III saying 'there can be no trust between hammer and rock, sooner or later one must break' was delivered well and felt impactful.
I have autism with... some other issues, so I have no idea what lines are awkward or stilted hahahah. You're talking to someone who thought the dialogue in the star wars prequels were shakespeare quality. Yeah the show has its good points.
> amazing soundtrack It was ok at best. >great acting and dialogue Snarling galadriel and cringe lines like "I am good", "The sea is always right", "Do you know why a ship floats and a stone cannot? Because the stone sees only downward." "You have not seen what i have seen", "there is a tempest in me" is what you call great acting and dialogue? >stunning FX and visuals Armor looked terrible, most scenes looked like they just stood on a set and the final battle looked like the battle of Bumfuck 2 kilometers north of Brighton.
It was terrible, even if not compared against the movie trilogy. Idk what you were seeing but the acting and dialogue was subpar, at best. The sets and costumes looked cheap and like something you'd expect from a high school theater, only the orcs looked good. The instantaneous distances traveled made no sense, and caused the world to feel very small. I could go on if I tried, but it was such a forgettable show I forget half the reasons it was so bad. They had half a *BILLION* to play with and made a 2 or 3 out of 10 show, anyone involved in executive decisions for its production should be ashamed of how it came out.
Sounds like the dialogue went over your head, you don’t recognize good acting, and you have a shit tv so couldn’t see the beautiful costumes and magnificent sets (plenty of which surpass Jackson’s trilogy. The issue you have with traveling sounds like you’re comparing it to The Hobbit and LOTR, where both have traveling for a quest as the central theme. If that’s not the case, I imagine you struggle with your average police procedural that shows cops hearing about a crime at the station, saying “Let’s go,” then showing up at the crime scene. “I don’t understand - did they miss all of the traffic? Did they get gas on the way over??? How did this happen??” -You
I'm really curious what some examples would be of particularly good dialogue in the show. I can provide examples of some really bad dialogue.
I'm not the person you replied to, but some of the dialogue did strike home for me, especially when Galadriel speaks to Theo. Finally we get to see some of the wise and kind Galadriel peek out from under her revenge and hopefully that's where her character development will continue to lead. "Hope is never mere, even when it is meager" also struck me as a very Tolkien-esque sentiment, and I liked the callback in the last episode. There are definitely some misses but I tried to give the show the benefit of the doubt and found I enjoyed a good part of it. And of course, "Give me the meat and give it to me raw" is a highlight haha
Outside of Elrond and the all the dwarves, and perhaps the leader of the uruks. everything was really bad. The visuals were good but pretty scenery does not make a show/movie, just try to think of the plot of the newest avatar movie and find what you enjoyed there. Nothing memorable really right? just mid acting and storytelling with a predictable plot. The music by Howard shore at the opening of the show is the only good song imo. Which doesn’t make sense why he was excluded from the rest. If the story lines of Galadriel, Gandalf, Sauron, isildur, the hobbits and the elf/ human love story were cut you may have a good show. I gave the show a really good go, hoping the show would get better episode after episode, that perhaps the character story arcs just needed to grow. By episode 6 sadly it I found it will never be a good show. Good show, Meaning a show you go back and watch and are excited to talk about with other people. You think about it and quote lines. This is Just your average sci fi channel movie from the 90s.
yep. the artists needed to design his throne, why not just copy the film version.
Its not just the throne. Meduseld, Isengard, the Hornburg all appear in this film and they're all carbon-copied from their live-action counterparts, which in some cases involved a detail-exhaustive archival sweep of Weta and Jackson's production companies.
If anything, I'm disappointed by this. Sure, it's great they took the time, etc etc. But we've been using the Jackson designs for LOTR literally for 20 years now. The only new, big budget art we've gotten has been from Magic the Gathering. I really hoped this anime would give us something different, to take advantage of the medium to try something unique.
The problem is that PJ took Alan Lee and John Howe with some inspiration from Ted Nasmith to design his middle earth; and for many people those three names also influenced their vision of middle-earth. It’s going to be a long time before we get a new version of Hobbiton.
The MTG designs sucked tho.
Nice to see they even kept Theoden’s hair and beard, great attention to detail that /s
I see he’s wearing clothes, that’s great consideration to the fact that theoden is not a known nudist.
Did you notice that the king is a white man in both? Great attention to detail.
If you look closely there is sitting in both pics. It might seem like fan service but Tolkien mentions sitting in the Appendices.
This is probably an unpopular opinion on this board that holds the PJ movies in such high esteem (for good reason), but I'd rather this movies wasn't like this. The PJ movies have a great aesthetic and interpretation of the universe but thats just one. Before the movies art of the books used to come in all sorts of different styles. Most things since have been quite homogenized and I wish we'd get some movies that take a different approach.
While I absolutely agree on principle, I also rejoice in the direction to make the visuals on par with the movies, just because the movies do such an amazing job at that. Very few fantasy works today, in my opinion, manage to mix fantasy, history, practicality and beauty as well as WETA, Howe and Lee did. Were it given another direction, I'm afraid the animation team would lever a bit too heavily into modernesque D&D territory.
A different interpretation would be interesting, but from the discussion around this movie, it sounds like going with an anime style is already too much of a departure for many people to swallow. I think grounding it in an interpretation that has already been seen and generally praised is probably a smart move from a commercial perspective.
I agree with you. I absolutely love the [LOTRO interpretation of Meduseld](https://lotro-wiki.com/wiki/Meduseld), and Rohan in general. It's very faithful to the book but totally different from Alan Lee and John Howe's work in the PJ films. I guess it helps when it's a totally digital building and you can make it as big as you like.
I love the Lotro world its a bit dated now but so much nostalgia for Bree, the Lone Lands, Barrow downs, Weather top, Rivendell. I never played the Rohan expansion unfortunately.
The graphics improved SO much between the Mirkwood and Rise of Isengard expansions (when I joined) and the later Rohan and Gondor expansions. The old areas still look dated, but the detail in the newer ones blew me away. Once you get to the Limlight Gorge and down into Rohan, suddenly the moon has phases, and the greenery and landscape has so much detail compared to the Shire! And you can explore Dol Amroth, Pelargir, Lossarnach, Lebennin, the Paths of the Dead, Anorien, and all of these parts of Gondor that are missing from the Jackson films. Each one has its own vibe.
As an aside, do you know any good resources for seeing other artistic takes on Middle-Earth? I've tried looking it up before, but I mostly only find stuff from the movies or inspired by them.
Off handed I don't know of any resources per say, I do have favorite artists that have some extensive collections [Ted Nasmith](https://www.tednasmith.com/site-map/j-r-r-tolkien/) my favorite being his Silmarillion paintings particularly his Gondolin art and [John Howe](https://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/) famous for his Fingolfin against Morgoth painting.
I see your point, but the fact of the matter is the only major Tolkien media we're getting in the forseeable future is either by Jackson (The War of the Rohirrim, The Hunt for Gollum) or its trying to look like its by him (The Rings of Power). Of those are the only two viable options, then I'm picking the one that's actually by Jackson - even merely as executive producer - than the doppleganger.
Yea that was kinda my point I was hoping the anime movie at least would take a totally different style choice because everything else is going to be the same or mimicing it. (Not talking about the black Aragorn not the point) The Magic the Gathering set had a lot of cool different styles from armor, locations, orcs, goblins to Sauron and then the alternative arts that really leaned more into a stranger style. It was refreshing to get something like that. Harkened back to some of the old epic scale pre-movies art work.
We have ROP for that🙂
Its slightly different which I like, the orcs in particular are fantastic some of the most disgusting and monstrous orcs we've gotten. They are still definitely trying to somewhat mimic the PJ style though. Its harder to differentiate in live action though which is why I thought the anime would be our best chance to get something totally different.
Doesn't RoP have a different aesthetic?
I'd call it slightly different but they are definitely pulling a similar style in. Animated I just saw as a chance to do something completely different.
Man, this makes me wish so much this wasn't anime.
Wait, so is the image on the left believed to be a depiction of King Theoden? I dig the interpretation if so. Edit: wait nvm, I see it takes place 200 years earlier. I was thinking maybe this would be a shot of Theoden, Eowyn and Eomer in Edoras at the beginning to set up the narration. But who knows. Edit 2: WAIT ITS HELM HAMMERHAND ON THE LEFT!? I’m so hyped now.
Where’d you find this image? This is the first actual image I have seen from the movie.
[I guess you missed the release of these three images.](https://www.reddit.com/r/lotr/comments/1ddhw8w/three_images_from_the_war_of_the_rohirrim)
I don't like anime but this has the potential to change that. Please be good. Please be good.
Anime isn't a genre it's a medium of story telling which has a lot of potential. Althou that depends on if this isn't some shitty cash grab with bad writing.
Okay, I don't like the medium and hope this changes it.
Hopefully we get a cyberpunk situation
It won't lol
It will be good. The director is a great anime filmmaker and the voice acting will feature actually good actors compared to shitty modern anime dub artists that use childish exaggerated voices
What am looking at?
I just hope this isn’t that newer crappy anime style that basically computer animated but made to look like it’s hand drawn. But it does kind of look like that…
it means its based off of good cinematic cannon and they have done the research. Its likely going to be really good.
What is this from? It's not the 70s cartoon
Whilst I really like the look of the new film, it isn't really hard to get right something when you literally have the rights to the props and photos of the originals, is it?
I’m surprised he’s white
The level of detail in LOTR is truly amazing. It makes rewatching the series even more enjoyable
I am so fucking sick of the recycling of popular culture. God for-fucking-bid anybody working on any kind of moving picture take a risk or have a single original god-damned thought.
I wish the art style was a bit less... Generic.
For everyone screaming "But Anime is bad!" for once, stop being ignorant and sit down for a minute. Anime is just a format. This wont have little girls in shorty pink skirts and cardboard MCs. It's like being upset that a movie is being released on Netflix instead of Theater. It's a format. Dota 2 chose anime as their format for their TV show and frankly it turned out unexpectedly good. I've watched through it 4 times now with 3 different people who have NEVER seen anything dota 2 in their life, and they all thought it was great. We NEED more good Fantasy anime. Vinland Saga and Dota Dragon's Blood and Record of Lodoss War are all very good at this kind of thing but it's still rare. A Lord of the Rings anime with real backing and effort behind it will not be magical girl uwu kitty girl. It will be a compitent and good show if people give their real effort to make it so. And it wont fall into the pitfall of overbudgeting on high quality overly clean cast and costume and set design. Anime will let them create whatever they need so they can actually work on good design. And from the looks of the screenshots, they're headed in that direction. Give it a damn chance. I know Rings of Power was a letdown, but that doesn't mean use a live action show to judge an anime production. Some of the best TV shows and movies I've ever seen have been anime, so relax and give it a shot. Approach with an open mind.
>For everyone screaming "But Anime is bad!" for once, stop being ignorant and sit down for a minute. Anime has done itself no favors as a genre/medium. I actually like a lot of anime shows. But even in the shows that I do like, it's a minefield trying to recommend it to friends because it comes with a million "hey this part is weird but just ignore it" scenes. I think the only shows I've been able to recommend to people with 0 caveats are FMA Brotherhood, Baccano, and Edgerunners. I don't blame anyone for looking at the art style and saying "I'm out".
No. It looks awful.
Ignorance is nothing to be proud of.
*attention to detail
Book nerds: were there any differences between the book and film when it came to the visual depictions of Rohan?
Wouldn't this be some kind of "plagiarism"? Or in the movie industry, would this be considered homage?
I guess @[Malachi108](https://www.reddit.com/user/Malachi108/) explains this in her reply below. Apparently, has license.
Peter Jackson is involved so yeah
Well, to be honest, no it's not. The ***writing*** is everything. I honestly wouldn't notice or care if the consistency wasn't precise, but the script for this *has* to be solid.
Just waiting for the eventual 'bait and switch' making it about the King's daughter and how she's the key player... I'm so burned by the poor quality and handling of my favorite IP"s of late I can't even get excited about this without some sort of trepidation kicking in.
What is this?
People have been poo-pooing the animation but I’m fucking STOKED. I think the anime style is going to work really well for the LOtR universe.
What is left from?
Idk why but I’m more ok with an animated style movie than more live action stuff
HEY AMAZON. This type of stuff shows that they know HOW IT IS DONE!
That transformation in film was awesome!
I’m curious is the throne is described at all in the books and if this matches that or if it’s something they had to invent for the movies.
I was curious too but afaik this is the description: > At the far end of the house, beyond the hearth and facing north towards the doors, was a dais with three steps; and in the middle of the dais was a great gilded chair.
Thanks! I couldn’t remember any description of the throne at all TBH
Let's goooo
This is cool. I will also repeat myself in saying the amount of hate this movie’s receiving from so-called Tolkien fans before a second of footage has even been released is astonishing. I’m excited for more Tolkien on the big screen.
The ulti FROWN!!!
What is this?
The drawing on the left is Helm Hammerhand, the last of the first line of kings of Rohan. It is from an upcoming movie called LOTR: The War of the Rohirrim.
Thank you I was hoping I didn't miss the release! When is it due to release?
[13th December 2024](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=war+of+the+rohirrim+release+date)
End of this year
Do you think he pets the horses
This is a shitpost, right? No way you're glazing them for tracing. Like, your mind is gonna be blown when you see how 99% of anime is able to perfectly reproduce the details of Japanese cities.
Wow they copied a prop from the movie. Exhilarating.
Source?
If you didnt feel like LOTR was being cash grabbed before...
Weird, when M:I 7 came out, its fan were - fancy that - looking forward to it, and not decrying the situation as "cash grabbed."
The cash grab was in reference to how they changed from live action to anime and the amazonification of ROP. Randomly naming a film that did well at the box office doesnt make any sense and doesnt make a point.
My point is, in other film series, there's a sense that - as long as the series is good, its not a cash-grab; and fancy this: people preferred to assume it will be good, rather than automatically assume it would suck. The Amazon show has nothing to do with this: this discussion is about the film series. So they made it anime: how is that any more or less cash-grabb-y than live-action?
I mean this looks way better than ROP
Theres been like 5 pictures
So maybe wait to judge it until there is more to go on than 5 pictures.
And it already looks better
LOTR and animation makes a lot of sense. The artwork can keep up with the imagination of Tolkien’s world. Kenji Kamiyama is a tried and true good director and animator who definitely put a lot of effort and attention to detail in this project. It will feature good actors voicing it. Honestly, ROP should’ve been animated as well
LOTR has already been animated. https://preview.redd.it/hqriyfxfsd6d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=164d3feca587d05dcc2051898dee5f11eaeb10b2
yes, i know and i love them. i grew up watching them. seems like peter jackson got a lot of inspiration from both rankin & bass and the bakshi films thanks for proving my point.
When you have someone who cares about the story, and respects it, you have a product like the LOTR films. It is not often we get that. How many times do we see franchise IP and things are just completely wrong?
> How many times do we see franchise IP and things are just completely wrong? do we wait for RoP S2 to do the count or not?
Just further feels like ai when that's pointed out.
Why do you think it's AI?
Its an official still from the movie...
Japanese people have incredible attention to detail. Their scotch is sublime and their beer is fantastic.
[удалено]
The director is Kenji Kamiyama, and the animation studio is Sola Entertainment, both of whom are Japanese.
BAAASED
Well it’s way easier to just redraw an existing design than come up with all totally new prop designs and they own the rights to the films, so ya
Lord of the anime... lame Edit: thanks for all the downvotes for having a different opinion than yours 😂 Sorry I'm not looking forward to smth that isn't going to compare to my 3 fave movies.
Onii-chan, but you must give it a chance (ꈍᴗꈍ)♡
Lol, hard pass from me. Hope you all enjoy it!