That's the thing, he's so clearly scared SHITLESS. You can hear it in how frantic his voice is.
But he does what he has to do ANYWAY. And that's what real courage is.
Just think of all the times in real life antiquity when soldiers first saw an elephant on the battlefield. That must have been terrifying, not just because they‘re huge but also because to an unfamiliar eye a tentacle-nosed creature with two massive tusks growing from its mouth probably looks like some eldritch monster.
There is always that one guy in the group who is just too stupid to be afraid. Just standing there with incoming like “hey guys I think I can see where the rounds are coming from”
The first time the Romans fought against war elephants, they were scared shitless. The second time they fought against war elephants, they tied a long rope between two chariots and drove around the elephant's legs, tying it up.
And yes, that was the inspiration for the snowspeeders tying up the AT-AT legs in Empire Strikes Back.
That’s actually not true. The roman’s strategy to defeat Carthaginian war elephants was to step out of the way of the elephants and make loud noises as they ran by to make them afraid.
The elephants were more of a psychological tool than a weapon of war.
Ancient Romans had many experiences like that during the Second Punic War and the Pyrrhic War. Just facing off against a creature you didn't know existed.
This is the whole point and height of his character arc. In the book it describes him looking over the field at Gondor in absolutely despair. He’s almost falling over his horse because of it.
Then he sits his self straight up, and goes into IDGAF mode and literally tells his army to ride with him into ruin. He knows they are going to die. He knows that Rohan and Gondor have an ancient alliance that MUST be upheld. He rides into battle at the FRONT of his army and charges into death. He was doing damn good too until the witch king showed up.
HAIL THE VICTORIOUS DEAD!!!
*clomp clomp clomp*
*horn of the haradrim*
Whs da?
*Wahhhhhhhh wah wahhhhhhh*
Reform the line! Reform the line!
*Oliphant with more chanting*
Sound the charge! Take them head on!
*Horn blo-* ***CHARGE!!!***
This specific moment is when the mouth of a fell beast is about to end his whole career.
The one before was almost a look of awe like “what…are those?”
Nah but seriously, all those men were looking at an extremely dire situation, like ABSOLUTELY dire, shit would've been terrifying to ride into, morale would've wavered... But their leader literally bolstered them, was in the vanguard and was first to fight, he was so fearless in the face of that destruction and terror that he inspired every man there. Seeing that and being in an absolute wrecking-ball of a cav charge, that very same dude yelling to reform the line, blow the horns and charge again... You would've done anything for that leader at that time.
"Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor! Suddenly the king cried to Snowmane and the horse sprang away. Behind him his banner blew in the wind, white horse upon a field of green, but he outpaced it. After him thundered the knights of his house, but he was ever before them. Éomer rode there, the white horsetail on his helm floating in his speed, and the front of the first éored roared like a breaker foaming to the shore, but Théoden could not be overtaken."
The way he describes Theoden riding out ahead of the van unable to be caught gives me chills, along with the description of his shield being uncovered and reflecting the first sunlight anyone has seen in weeks, causing everything around him including the grass to flame up with color. SUBLIME
YES. I can't believe I forgot that part. OH, OH, and my other favorite part (lol) is something they only implied with a sweeping camera shot in the film, which is his voice somehow booming loudly enough for every one of the thousands of assembled Rohirrim to hear clearly, which is some straight-up superhero/Jesus shit.
Your aging, weary King sees the unimaginable chaos in front of you, and rather than despairing, springs up in his saddle like a new man, gives some orders, then gives a rousing speech for the ages that's so loud you can feel it in your chest, sounds a horn so loudly it shatters, and after gleefully shouting "DEATH," charges toward the enemy so fast that neither his vanguard, nor the newly revealed light of the sun can keep up with him? Yeah, I think I'd charge right after him too.
I wonder how much Tolkien was referencing Alexander the Great. He famously charged in front of his vanguard in every battle...including when they faced battle elephants in India.
>Fearless even in obvious death
When your battle cry was "DEATH!" and you charge headlong into the largest army of orcs in at least an age, it's fair to say that death is no longer a specter,it's an acquaintance.
Can't speak for oliphants, but that's actually not a bad idea against elephants.
Elephants make poor mounts, they're quite a bit smarter than horses. Which is a problem, because you want horses to charge to their deaths if necessary. Elephants don't give a shit about your wars, but they do understand death and fear *damn well*.
When the Romans faced elephant cavalry (elephantry?), they found the best way to deal with them was basically to scare them. If you break an elephant's morale, it will often trample the nearby infantry in a panic.
Unfortunately, I believe those were the first Mumakil that Theoden or any of his Rohirrim had ever encountered.
Theoden didn't have any time to make a complex plan, so he gambled on a tactic he knew his people were good at - a charge.
It didn't work super well, but we see the Rohirrim adapting mid-fight to kite around the mumakil and shoot weak spots.
Edited for clarity
Fair, but did any of *those* rohirrim look centuries old to you?
Your great grandfather telling a story about fighting something doesn't do much to prepare you for the reality.
Fair enough.
But it could be common knowledge among rohirim that elephants should be charged head on.
I mean, if even Sam knew something about the Oliphants.... the martial elite of the Rohan Kingdom may have too. Theodens family even married with Denethors after all. They were not that insular.
Have u never stepped in an ants nest? Accidentally or something
I suppose it would be scary but less scary then if a thousand terrier sized ants ran at me
Once the Romans had faced war elephants they devised tactics to deal with them which was basically just to open up lanes in their ranks. Which the elephants would naturally run into to and they would just keep going off the battlefield if they survived. They didn’t give a shit about the rider trying to get them to turn around for another charge once they started getting stabbed with spears.
Another tactic used later by cavalry was to put fake trunks on the horses. It would disorient the elephants who weren’t sure if the horses were baby elephants so they would try to avoid goring them or running them over.
Based on most historical sources war elephants were extremely unpredictable and difficult to control during battle. Trained professional troops on the other hand would effectively maneuver into different formations as long as they had been trained on it in advance. The biggest advantage the Romans had in battle was distributed leadership. It’s impossible for one guy to control an entire army in battle. Multiple layers of leadership that know the common goals handling smaller groups of people they can directly manage seems to work pretty well.
Yup. Attack from the sides and aim for their heads. Don't go charging right under their tusks! Even if the mumakil are bigger, horses are still more agile and quicker to respond to commands.
Tactically, that made no sense. The oliphant line didn’t span the entire battlefield. It would’ve been better to split into two large groups and assault the oliphant lines from the ends
I saw an excerpt where he described the blast of Boromir’s horn recently and, as an author myself, could only shake my head and think, “No one writes like this anymore.”
Jesus bro, it's too early in the day to cry.
All these iconic actors passing away... Ian Holm, Christopher Lee, Bernard Hill. My heart is gonna break when Sir Ian McKellen goes, that will hit me the hardest. We shall not see the likes of them again.
Death they cried with one voice... I must give the actor credit, he nailed it. Maybe I don't agree with everything the screenwriters did to the story, but I'm still in awe of the films because the actors, costumes, sets, so much else about the films was just perfect. Even the deviations from the books which annoy me now didn't bother me at all the first time I saw it.
I recommend one of the interviews John-Rhys Davies recently gave. Unfortunately I don't remember where he gave them.
But basically he was very sceptical before the start and even wanted to turn down the role, but after visiting all departments in the first couple of weeks he said in a press conference that the movies would out gross the new Star wars trilogy and people 20 years later would recognise LOTR as one of the greatest movies ever made
And both would be true.
From IMDB, total gross of the prequels was about $3.7 billion, and the LOTR was a little over $4 billion.
LOTR being among the best films ever made of course needs no further explanation.
Fucking Nazgul can infect you with a wasting disease because you just got to close in combat, weren't some people affected by the black breath by shooting at them with a bow from too close? OP and broken.
My headcanon is that he knew immediately, as he heard the screech and turned to look, that this would destroy the morale of his riders, and that’s why his face fell. Its not a “Oh I’m going to die”, as he, already quite old, knew that he was going to his likely death, its a “All of my riders who see the Witch King kill me are going to have their courage shattered”.
He was just yelling “Rally to me! To me!” All the Rohirrim in the vicinity’s eyes are on him, their king, right as (assuming Gandalf or indeed his own scouts explained who was riding the flying mounts) the enemy commander, the Witch-King of Angmar itself (himself also realizing the massive threat that the King of Rohan posed as a figurehead and strategic leader of several thousand raging light and heavy cavalry, and moving swiftly to deal with it and lessen the damage to his siege assault) diving straight for him.
That would be crushing, and it shows on Theoden’s face, to know that there was just a chance they could drive the orcs away from the city, and now knowing hundreds of his men are going to see him be slain by a wraith riding a fell beast, right as the tide was turning in their favo
Edit: also, Theoden must have sensed, with all the intuition of a great leader, that his men needed a quick rallying pep talk to keep their fires going, and so he also knows he’ll be killed before he can deliver that rousing speech he was just about to launch into to keep them going hard
People should absolutely read the books, but the battle of the Pelennor Fields especially is a masterpiece, easily the best prose I've ever read. The sally of the Swan knights and the black sails give me goosebumps every single time. Nothing else like it.
The way he manages to somehow make everything look SO bleak even if you know how it ends is masterful. When Arwen's banner is unfurled on the ship and it becomes clear that what they just thought was their certain doom is actually their saving grace, I still get a lump in my throat.
I know everyone loves the Ride of the Rohirrim the movie but what (kinda) ruins it for me is how much better it is in the proper context.
>
> But thereupon Éomer rode up in haste... and grief and dismay fell upon him as he came to the king's side and stood there in silence....
>
> And he looked at the slain, recalling their names. Then suddenly he beheld his sister Éowyn as she lay, and he knew her. He stood a moment as a man who is pierced in the midst of a cry by an arrow through the heart; and then his face went deathly white; and a cold fury rose in him, so that all speech failed him for a while. A fey mood took him.
>
> 'Éowyn, Éowyn!' he cried at last: 'Éowyn, how come you here? What madness or devilry is this? Death, death, death! Death take us all!'
>
> Then without taking counsel or waiting for the approach of the men of the City, he spurred headlong back to the front of the great host, and blew a horn, and cried aloud for the onset. Over the field rang his clear voice calling: 'Death! Ride, ride to ruin and the world's ending!'
>
> And with that the host began to move. But the Rohirrim sang no more. Death they cried with one voice loud and terrible, and gathering speed like a great tide their battle swept about their fallen king and passed, roaring away southwards.
It's kinda the same thing with Denathor imo. In the film he's a crazy old man who actively wants Faramir to die. There's no redeeming feature, he's just bad.
In the books, he's a military genius who, although he doesn't like Faramir, is still fully aware Faramir is his best lieutenant. He sends Faramir to his death because he knows Faramir is the only man who could possibly command an orderly retreat from the Rammas. Which he does until the Witch King intervenes. And then his belief that he's caused his sons death breaks him. But until that moment he's played the situation perfectly.
My less thoughtful interpretation is that Theoden's had a long day and, following the first big surprise that was the arrival of the Haradrim, sees the Witch King approaching and understandably thinks "oh, come on."
I think about this a lot. It's perfect. It's not fear or panic or even anger, it's... injustice? Exasperation? It's the "really? _really?_" of a person who's had rotten luck all day and then misses their bus.
He's not afraid to die. He's just annoyed that he's being taken out of the fight.
It's the same energy as "They have a cave troll". It's not frightened, it's exasperated. Train was late, copier's broken, we're out of coffee and they have a cave troll. Fuck's sake.
It’s his fated acceptance. He sense he was going to his death in this battle. When he saw this, he knew this was his end, and that it would be a hard end.
Theoden led the Rohirrim on a death charge into pikes and archers, and defeated them handily; he again fearlessly led the charge to take down massive oliphants, rallying his men to his side; and just when victory was in sight, the mother fucking Witch King shows up on his fell beast. Theoden’s face in this picture is that of a battle-weary warrior-king who had exhausted his every fiber to save his people and all of Middle Earth. “What the actual fuck?” he thought to himself.
That's the face of someone saying "God...DAMNIT. I'm about to die." It is the face of someone, well, facing their own death.
As the Witch King said in the movie:
"Do you not know death when you see it, old man? This is my hour!"
He personified death.
This moment in the book was one of the absolute best. The Witch King was on a black steed, in front of Grond who was breaking down the doors. Gandalf on Shadowfax, staring each other down. The witch king didn’t bother with a cloak, it was just a neck and a crown sitting on an invisible head.
He spoke the words, and the might of Sauron cracked lightning to finally break the door down.
Then a sparrow sang to announce the coming of the Riders of Rohan…
The man just defeated two world-threatening armies in one day, only to see the damn Witch King making a beeline right for him. He’s definitely earned the right to feel hard done by.
I've felt that face before. Not in the same context or in nearly as dire circumstances, but that is my exact face when someone asks for a meeting at 4:30 PM on a Friday afternoon.
That's the face of someone saying "God...DAMNIT. I'm about to die." It is the face of someone, we'll, facing their own death.
As the Wicth King said in the movie:
"Do you not know death when you see it, old man? This is my hour!"
He personified death.
He could muster the rohirrim
He could charge thousands of orcs
He could take on oliphaunts
But at some point there's just so much shit Mordor can throw at you
Great actor, absolute joy to watch as Theoden. Something I really appreciated about film Theoden is Hill's subtlety in little moments like this one. Note to basically all modern actors: not every dramatic moment needs an overly dramatic facial expression
I'd say it's more of "Come on, seriously?" Like he didn't care that he was going to die, it was just that things were looking good for them, and then the Witch-King of Angmar himself comes in and immediately changes the tide of the battle in the forces of Mordor's favor.
It was then that Theoden realised he should've gotten life insurance to help his niece and nephew out, and the funeral plan that included shipment of his body back to Rohan
King who led by example,
A king who took charge, was the first to share blows with enemies, before his soldiers.
What a king, how beautifully written, directed and acted upon
Im glad he redeemed himself in ROTK. He was potrayed rather pathetically in TTT. I'm not really sure how he was portayed in the books haven't read that far
Movie Theoden is one of my favorite characters BECAUSE he is so pathetic in TTT. When we meet him he is at his lowest point, as an old man having fallen under Saruman’s influence and allowed his kingdom to fall apart and his son to die. (“How did it come to this?” Gee man idk, who was king for the past several decades?) He is then put in a position of having to work with (and from his perspective get bossed around by) a wizard/angel (Gandalf) and a superhuman (Aragorn) which only feeds his inferiority complex (“It was not Theoden of Rohan who lead our people to victory”).
The fact he was able to rally from all that and rise to the occasion while being just a human is what makes him a great hero.
I figure he's never seen beasts like the mumakil, fellbeasts, or Nazgúl. So after charging the orcs, then the Haradrim, and finally seeing this coming at him, he's thinking just that, "Fucking hell man!!" Not to get down on the Rohirrim, but they give me more introverted, good ol' boy, out in the sticks, kinda folks who wouldn't necessarily know about these sort of things.
I have have hyperacusis and every sound pains my ears terribly. I recognize the look on Theoden’s face. He’s thinking “holy shit that thing really hurts my ears. Oh yeah I’m about to die”
I don't think it's even "Oh shit!" Theoden knew it was unlikely he would survive this war. This is more a moment of "So this is it, this is how my time ends"
This is the exact moment I'd put the one pg-13 allowed "fuck" in RotK...
Fellowship has to be "they have a fucking cave troll"
2 towers... I forget where I'd put it....
I love the part when he shouts “reform the line! Reform the line! CHARGE!!!” Fearless even in obvious death
That's the thing, he's so clearly scared SHITLESS. You can hear it in how frantic his voice is. But he does what he has to do ANYWAY. And that's what real courage is.
Just that stare of "the fuck are those things?!?"
Just think of all the times in real life antiquity when soldiers first saw an elephant on the battlefield. That must have been terrifying, not just because they‘re huge but also because to an unfamiliar eye a tentacle-nosed creature with two massive tusks growing from its mouth probably looks like some eldritch monster.
And then you go, “fuck it, we’re charging it anyway because that’s what we have to do”
I just want to get a closer look at it...
CAN I PET THAT DOOOG!
There is always that one guy in the group who is just too stupid to be afraid. Just standing there with incoming like “hey guys I think I can see where the rounds are coming from”
Trombley? Is that you?
If not giant fren, why giant fren shaped?
Get me closer! So I can hit it with my sword!
The first time the Romans fought against war elephants, they were scared shitless. The second time they fought against war elephants, they tied a long rope between two chariots and drove around the elephant's legs, tying it up. And yes, that was the inspiration for the snowspeeders tying up the AT-AT legs in Empire Strikes Back.
That’s actually not true. The roman’s strategy to defeat Carthaginian war elephants was to step out of the way of the elephants and make loud noises as they ran by to make them afraid. The elephants were more of a psychological tool than a weapon of war.
Didn't they also let loose some burning pigs due to how effective those were at spooking the elephants?
They tried the pigs but those didn't work very well, they just ran around in circles.
Ancient Romans had many experiences like that during the Second Punic War and the Pyrrhic War. Just facing off against a creature you didn't know existed.
The haste in his voice as he goes from “reform” to “charge”, allowing no hesitation due to fear
courage is not fearless, but courage is that you still fight even when you are scared
This is the whole point and height of his character arc. In the book it describes him looking over the field at Gondor in absolutely despair. He’s almost falling over his horse because of it. Then he sits his self straight up, and goes into IDGAF mode and literally tells his army to ride with him into ruin. He knows they are going to die. He knows that Rohan and Gondor have an ancient alliance that MUST be upheld. He rides into battle at the FRONT of his army and charges into death. He was doing damn good too until the witch king showed up. HAIL THE VICTORIOUS DEAD!!!
HAIL
DEAAAAAATTTHHHHHHHHH
Also love how the horn that was blowed on that charge was a frightened and weak but still brave response to the mumakil horns
And he doesn't even consider running away. once he has made his mind up, he is committed to this fight.
*clomp clomp clomp* *horn of the haradrim* Whs da? *Wahhhhhhhh wah wahhhhhhh* Reform the line! Reform the line! *Oliphant with more chanting* Sound the charge! Take them head on! *Horn blo-* ***CHARGE!!!***
That was the first “oh shit, seriously” moment he had lol
If I remember correctly, it comes right after he thinks they are winning.
This specific moment is when the mouth of a fell beast is about to end his whole career. The one before was almost a look of awe like “what…are those?”
Ah, thank you for the clarification. Clearly I am due for a rewatch to refresh my memory on the exact sequence of the battle.
I thought the moment they saw the vast army of orcs was pretty much the definitive "Oh shit, seriously?" Moment.
Nah but seriously, all those men were looking at an extremely dire situation, like ABSOLUTELY dire, shit would've been terrifying to ride into, morale would've wavered... But their leader literally bolstered them, was in the vanguard and was first to fight, he was so fearless in the face of that destruction and terror that he inspired every man there. Seeing that and being in an absolute wrecking-ball of a cav charge, that very same dude yelling to reform the line, blow the horns and charge again... You would've done anything for that leader at that time. "Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor! Suddenly the king cried to Snowmane and the horse sprang away. Behind him his banner blew in the wind, white horse upon a field of green, but he outpaced it. After him thundered the knights of his house, but he was ever before them. Éomer rode there, the white horsetail on his helm floating in his speed, and the front of the first éored roared like a breaker foaming to the shore, but Théoden could not be overtaken."
The way he describes Theoden riding out ahead of the van unable to be caught gives me chills, along with the description of his shield being uncovered and reflecting the first sunlight anyone has seen in weeks, causing everything around him including the grass to flame up with color. SUBLIME
Plus he blows his horn so loud it fucking shatters
YES. I can't believe I forgot that part. OH, OH, and my other favorite part (lol) is something they only implied with a sweeping camera shot in the film, which is his voice somehow booming loudly enough for every one of the thousands of assembled Rohirrim to hear clearly, which is some straight-up superhero/Jesus shit. Your aging, weary King sees the unimaginable chaos in front of you, and rather than despairing, springs up in his saddle like a new man, gives some orders, then gives a rousing speech for the ages that's so loud you can feel it in your chest, sounds a horn so loudly it shatters, and after gleefully shouting "DEATH," charges toward the enemy so fast that neither his vanguard, nor the newly revealed light of the sun can keep up with him? Yeah, I think I'd charge right after him too.
I wonder how much Tolkien was referencing Alexander the Great. He famously charged in front of his vanguard in every battle...including when they faced battle elephants in India.
>Fearless even in obvious death When your battle cry was "DEATH!" and you charge headlong into the largest army of orcs in at least an age, it's fair to say that death is no longer a specter,it's an acquaintance.
The way he cringes, biting his lip before shouting this…Another great expression.
Reminds me of Aragorn shedding a tear as he says “For Frodo”. Such an amazing moment.
Why charge the oliphants head on though?
Can't speak for oliphants, but that's actually not a bad idea against elephants. Elephants make poor mounts, they're quite a bit smarter than horses. Which is a problem, because you want horses to charge to their deaths if necessary. Elephants don't give a shit about your wars, but they do understand death and fear *damn well*. When the Romans faced elephant cavalry (elephantry?), they found the best way to deal with them was basically to scare them. If you break an elephant's morale, it will often trample the nearby infantry in a panic.
That is a good point. But at least in the movie, it doesn't seem like it worked.
Unfortunately, I believe those were the first Mumakil that Theoden or any of his Rohirrim had ever encountered. Theoden didn't have any time to make a complex plan, so he gambled on a tactic he knew his people were good at - a charge. It didn't work super well, but we see the Rohirrim adapting mid-fight to kite around the mumakil and shoot weak spots. Edited for clarity
The rohirim had been fighting in Harad in previous centuries.
Fair, but did any of *those* rohirrim look centuries old to you? Your great grandfather telling a story about fighting something doesn't do much to prepare you for the reality.
Fair enough. But it could be common knowledge among rohirim that elephants should be charged head on. I mean, if even Sam knew something about the Oliphants.... the martial elite of the Rohan Kingdom may have too. Theodens family even married with Denethors after all. They were not that insular.
Possibly because these elephants are significantly larger than normal ones...
I dunno, as a human I’d be pretty scared if thousands of ants suddenly started charging at me
Have u never stepped in an ants nest? Accidentally or something I suppose it would be scary but less scary then if a thousand terrier sized ants ran at me
What kind of elaborate plan would you have communicated to your thousands of horsemen in the chaos of battle?
Surround them, go to the sides. Attack from a distance. Basically anything expect charging at the tusks.
I think you severely overestimate how much tactical control leaders could exert once (or even before) battle was joined in the pre-radio era.
Once the Romans had faced war elephants they devised tactics to deal with them which was basically just to open up lanes in their ranks. Which the elephants would naturally run into to and they would just keep going off the battlefield if they survived. They didn’t give a shit about the rider trying to get them to turn around for another charge once they started getting stabbed with spears. Another tactic used later by cavalry was to put fake trunks on the horses. It would disorient the elephants who weren’t sure if the horses were baby elephants so they would try to avoid goring them or running them over. Based on most historical sources war elephants were extremely unpredictable and difficult to control during battle. Trained professional troops on the other hand would effectively maneuver into different formations as long as they had been trained on it in advance. The biggest advantage the Romans had in battle was distributed leadership. It’s impossible for one guy to control an entire army in battle. Multiple layers of leadership that know the common goals handling smaller groups of people they can directly manage seems to work pretty well.
They should do more training drills using different horn calls, then. Hard but not impossible.
Yup. Attack from the sides and aim for their heads. Don't go charging right under their tusks! Even if the mumakil are bigger, horses are still more agile and quicker to respond to commands.
In the movie they were ridiculously huge, there’s nothing in the book to suggest that.
Tactically, that made no sense. The oliphant line didn’t span the entire battlefield. It would’ve been better to split into two large groups and assault the oliphant lines from the ends
RIP Bernard Hill.
RIP King Théoden of Rohan, Lord of the Mark, Father of the Horseman. 🥺
Where now the horse, and the rider?
Chills
That line makes me tear up now when I hear it
Same.
Gissa job.
Death, death death! Death take us all!
And captain of the Titanic
And science dude in The Scorpion King!
hail the victorious dead
HAIL!
HAIL
Hail
HAIL
Hail
HAIL!
"I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company, I shall not now be ashamed."
Tolkien did words goodly
I saw an excerpt where he described the blast of Boromir’s horn recently and, as an author myself, could only shake my head and think, “No one writes like this anymore.”
His style was archaic in his own time. But he knew the English language down to its ancient roots. The JS Bach of English lit.
Jesus bro, it's too early in the day to cry. All these iconic actors passing away... Ian Holm, Christopher Lee, Bernard Hill. My heart is gonna break when Sir Ian McKellen goes, that will hit me the hardest. We shall not see the likes of them again.
hail the victorious dead
Hail
Westu hál. Ferðu, Theoden King. Ferðu.
Face of a guy who knows he's dead if he fights it, but has no option other than to fight it.
Death they cried with one voice... I must give the actor credit, he nailed it. Maybe I don't agree with everything the screenwriters did to the story, but I'm still in awe of the films because the actors, costumes, sets, so much else about the films was just perfect. Even the deviations from the books which annoy me now didn't bother me at all the first time I saw it.
I recommend one of the interviews John-Rhys Davies recently gave. Unfortunately I don't remember where he gave them. But basically he was very sceptical before the start and even wanted to turn down the role, but after visiting all departments in the first couple of weeks he said in a press conference that the movies would out gross the new Star wars trilogy and people 20 years later would recognise LOTR as one of the greatest movies ever made
And both would be true. From IMDB, total gross of the prequels was about $3.7 billion, and the LOTR was a little over $4 billion. LOTR being among the best films ever made of course needs no further explanation.
im a scifi nerd. But dislike the fantasy genre. But LOTR is just too good the be disliked. I rewatch them frequently
Fucking Nazgul can infect you with a wasting disease because you just got to close in combat, weren't some people affected by the black breath by shooting at them with a bow from too close? OP and broken.
It's more like a weapon that slices away your will, your will to stand and fight, to master your fear... to live.
Dude looks like the Titanic is about to sink
My headcanon is that he knew immediately, as he heard the screech and turned to look, that this would destroy the morale of his riders, and that’s why his face fell. Its not a “Oh I’m going to die”, as he, already quite old, knew that he was going to his likely death, its a “All of my riders who see the Witch King kill me are going to have their courage shattered”. He was just yelling “Rally to me! To me!” All the Rohirrim in the vicinity’s eyes are on him, their king, right as (assuming Gandalf or indeed his own scouts explained who was riding the flying mounts) the enemy commander, the Witch-King of Angmar itself (himself also realizing the massive threat that the King of Rohan posed as a figurehead and strategic leader of several thousand raging light and heavy cavalry, and moving swiftly to deal with it and lessen the damage to his siege assault) diving straight for him. That would be crushing, and it shows on Theoden’s face, to know that there was just a chance they could drive the orcs away from the city, and now knowing hundreds of his men are going to see him be slain by a wraith riding a fell beast, right as the tide was turning in their favo Edit: also, Theoden must have sensed, with all the intuition of a great leader, that his men needed a quick rallying pep talk to keep their fires going, and so he also knows he’ll be killed before he can deliver that rousing speech he was just about to launch into to keep them going hard
This is a smart take since the motif of the battle in the book is the whiplash changing of morale throughout the fight.
Every battle is a single rout away from being won.
People should absolutely read the books, but the battle of the Pelennor Fields especially is a masterpiece, easily the best prose I've ever read. The sally of the Swan knights and the black sails give me goosebumps every single time. Nothing else like it.
The way he manages to somehow make everything look SO bleak even if you know how it ends is masterful. When Arwen's banner is unfurled on the ship and it becomes clear that what they just thought was their certain doom is actually their saving grace, I still get a lump in my throat.
I know everyone loves the Ride of the Rohirrim the movie but what (kinda) ruins it for me is how much better it is in the proper context. > > But thereupon Éomer rode up in haste... and grief and dismay fell upon him as he came to the king's side and stood there in silence.... > > And he looked at the slain, recalling their names. Then suddenly he beheld his sister Éowyn as she lay, and he knew her. He stood a moment as a man who is pierced in the midst of a cry by an arrow through the heart; and then his face went deathly white; and a cold fury rose in him, so that all speech failed him for a while. A fey mood took him. > > 'Éowyn, Éowyn!' he cried at last: 'Éowyn, how come you here? What madness or devilry is this? Death, death, death! Death take us all!' > > Then without taking counsel or waiting for the approach of the men of the City, he spurred headlong back to the front of the great host, and blew a horn, and cried aloud for the onset. Over the field rang his clear voice calling: 'Death! Ride, ride to ruin and the world's ending!' > > And with that the host began to move. But the Rohirrim sang no more. Death they cried with one voice loud and terrible, and gathering speed like a great tide their battle swept about their fallen king and passed, roaring away southwards.
It's kinda the same thing with Denathor imo. In the film he's a crazy old man who actively wants Faramir to die. There's no redeeming feature, he's just bad. In the books, he's a military genius who, although he doesn't like Faramir, is still fully aware Faramir is his best lieutenant. He sends Faramir to his death because he knows Faramir is the only man who could possibly command an orderly retreat from the Rammas. Which he does until the Witch King intervenes. And then his belief that he's caused his sons death breaks him. But until that moment he's played the situation perfectly.
My less thoughtful interpretation is that Theoden's had a long day and, following the first big surprise that was the arrival of the Haradrim, sees the Witch King approaching and understandably thinks "oh, come on."
I'm not even supposed to be here today!
“And now, on top of everything else, there’s YOU”
The shriek of the wyvern would instantly shatter the psyche of a regular human, so I like to think this is Theodin keeping his cool.
RIP Snowmane.
Great! 👍🏻
*record scratch* yup, that’s me, king of Rohan. You’re probably wondering how I got in this situation…
Well, you see, a few thousand years ago, this guy made a ring...
I think about this a lot. It's perfect. It's not fear or panic or even anger, it's... injustice? Exasperation? It's the "really? _really?_" of a person who's had rotten luck all day and then misses their bus. He's not afraid to die. He's just annoyed that he's being taken out of the fight.
It's the same energy as "They have a cave troll". It's not frightened, it's exasperated. Train was late, copier's broken, we're out of coffee and they have a cave troll. Fuck's sake.
It’s his fated acceptance. He sense he was going to his death in this battle. When he saw this, he knew this was his end, and that it would be a hard end.
At least he's the last person the Witch King is responsible for killing. He'll be memorialized in song.
It’s his “what is this new devilry?” face
Theoden led the Rohirrim on a death charge into pikes and archers, and defeated them handily; he again fearlessly led the charge to take down massive oliphants, rallying his men to his side; and just when victory was in sight, the mother fucking Witch King shows up on his fell beast. Theoden’s face in this picture is that of a battle-weary warrior-king who had exhausted his every fiber to save his people and all of Middle Earth. “What the actual fuck?” he thought to himself.
I believe the Rifftrax comment here was “Oh, FML”
Wait…. Rifftracks did the Trilogy. Shiiiiiit. How good is it?
It is awesome. They are obviously fans so it isn't too harsh, it's just really funny.
Shit yea I’m sold.
“Oh, come ON.”
"You gotta be fucking kidding me"
I always interpreted this face to mean, “Oh, fuck me.”
*incoming Nazgul noises* [Theoden](https://media.tenor.com/fJ0G0CgB8UQAAAAM/fuck-me-fuuuuuuck.gif)
That's the face of someone saying "God...DAMNIT. I'm about to die." It is the face of someone, well, facing their own death. As the Witch King said in the movie: "Do you not know death when you see it, old man? This is my hour!" He personified death.
This moment in the book was one of the absolute best. The Witch King was on a black steed, in front of Grond who was breaking down the doors. Gandalf on Shadowfax, staring each other down. The witch king didn’t bother with a cloak, it was just a neck and a crown sitting on an invisible head. He spoke the words, and the might of Sauron cracked lightning to finally break the door down. Then a sparrow sang to announce the coming of the Riders of Rohan…
“Die now, and curse in vain!” Such a badass line
“DEATH”
DEEEATH!
FORTH EORLINGAS!!!!
The man just defeated two world-threatening armies in one day, only to see the damn Witch King making a beeline right for him. He’s definitely earned the right to feel hard done by.
“Shit”
"There's always fucking something."
Shouldn’t’a said that. I should NOT have said that.
"For fuck's sake..."
I've felt that face before. Not in the same context or in nearly as dire circumstances, but that is my exact face when someone asks for a meeting at 4:30 PM on a Friday afternoon.
As an Irish man would say.. "Ahh, for fu%k sake" RIP Bernard 😔
More like "You gotta be fuckin kidding me"
It had been a pretty long day, to be fair.
Such incredible acting. Very much, "I'm too old for this crap," without saying a word.
The details and smudges on the helmets and armor make me love the movies even more and dislike the Amazon series.
Theoden: “FML”
"Really Sauron? I'm too much awesome so you send him?"
I always read it as “are you fucking kidding me”
That's the face of someone saying "God...DAMNIT. I'm about to die." It is the face of someone, we'll, facing their own death. As the Wicth King said in the movie: "Do you not know death when you see it, old man? This is my hour!" He personified death.
‘Effin Seriously?!?’
i think i rewatch this even more often than the first battle of 300
I always saw it as a face resigned to death.
Nah that's an "aw, fuck..." face
"Okay, they got that flank........ that oliphant is still running around but they can handle it... good good.... and............ ahh fuck."
Even as he thought “oh sht”, his face said he would face his foe and die in battle. Great, sublime acting.
It's not the "oh shit!" face like you're surprised. It's the "... shit" face when you realize things are about to go sideways.
He could muster the rohirrim He could charge thousands of orcs He could take on oliphaunts But at some point there's just so much shit Mordor can throw at you
The amount of work on his helmet is insane!
If I was doing literally anything and heard that goddamn shrieking out of fucking nowhere, I’d have the exact same expression ngl.
This is the face you do when your boss compliments you about your amazing work and as a reward gives you more work.
Great actor...RIP Bernard. "I go to my fathers, in whose mighty company I shall not now feel ashamed"...chills, literal chills.
I love his wtf face after they blew up the wall at helms deep
Great actor, absolute joy to watch as Theoden. Something I really appreciated about film Theoden is Hill's subtlety in little moments like this one. Note to basically all modern actors: not every dramatic moment needs an overly dramatic facial expression
Same subtlety had Marton Czokas playing Celeborn, he’s not too much emotional and this is great
Yeah he was great too. Loved the scenes in lothlorien, everything there felt so ethereal, and "elfy" for lack of a better term
He kinda nailed it, didn't he.
I love when he first sees the Oliphaunts.
I was just one day away from retirement
The sheer "fer fuck's sake, what now" of it
His achieves the perfect ‘absolute loss of hope’ face in this scene
That's the "I know I'm about to get fucking WRECKED" face.
He is seeing his death
I'd say it's more of "Come on, seriously?" Like he didn't care that he was going to die, it was just that things were looking good for them, and then the Witch-King of Angmar himself comes in and immediately changes the tide of the battle in the forces of Mordor's favor.
I feel like it’s a “I’m too old for this shit” face 😂
It's interesting that being a kid and watching that for the first time, I wasn't getting the character.
It was then that Theoden realised he should've gotten life insurance to help his niece and nephew out, and the funeral plan that included shipment of his body back to Rohan
They fly now?!
‘Well, shit, I’m dead then’ *sigh*
He’s like “Why can’t we just catch one break?”
I just watched it yesterday. I have the exact same thought every time I see that expression
He conveyed so much with that expression, what a tremendously talented actor.
😂😂
King who led by example, A king who took charge, was the first to share blows with enemies, before his soldiers. What a king, how beautifully written, directed and acted upon
Reminds me of that moment in Battle of the Five Armies when the first army of orcs arrive, and Dain turns to see it like: *Ohhhh comeoooooon!*
Im glad he redeemed himself in ROTK. He was potrayed rather pathetically in TTT. I'm not really sure how he was portayed in the books haven't read that far
Movie Theoden is one of my favorite characters BECAUSE he is so pathetic in TTT. When we meet him he is at his lowest point, as an old man having fallen under Saruman’s influence and allowed his kingdom to fall apart and his son to die. (“How did it come to this?” Gee man idk, who was king for the past several decades?) He is then put in a position of having to work with (and from his perspective get bossed around by) a wizard/angel (Gandalf) and a superhuman (Aragorn) which only feeds his inferiority complex (“It was not Theoden of Rohan who lead our people to victory”). The fact he was able to rally from all that and rise to the occasion while being just a human is what makes him a great hero.
Couldn't have worded it better 🫡
My Tarnished in front of all the new enemies in Shadow of the Erdtree.
I figure he's never seen beasts like the mumakil, fellbeasts, or Nazgúl. So after charging the orcs, then the Haradrim, and finally seeing this coming at him, he's thinking just that, "Fucking hell man!!" Not to get down on the Rohirrim, but they give me more introverted, good ol' boy, out in the sticks, kinda folks who wouldn't necessarily know about these sort of things.
All time great acting performance, fight me
This is what I imagine Brock looks like when you grind up to a Blastoise before the first gym.
I dunno he was kinda the only one being a cunt at helms deep
“Faithful servant yet master’s bane, Lightfoot’s foal, swift Snowmane.”
I have have hyperacusis and every sound pains my ears terribly. I recognize the look on Theoden’s face. He’s thinking “holy shit that thing really hurts my ears. Oh yeah I’m about to die”
Even better is when the Mûmakil arrive
I don't think it's even "Oh shit!" Theoden knew it was unlikely he would survive this war. This is more a moment of "So this is it, this is how my time ends"
This is the exact moment I'd put the one pg-13 allowed "fuck" in RotK... Fellowship has to be "they have a fucking cave troll" 2 towers... I forget where I'd put it....
Yeah, that but is one of the moments that stuck with me for uh... Damn, 20 years. I was 10 when I saw it at the cinema