4. Marked by an otherworldly air in this context
Basically in this scene, when the Rohirrim charge the besieging orcs , the way Theoden looked on the lead of the line on his white horse resembled how Orome the valar looked when he charged on his horse Nahar in the ages of the lamps
I feel Tolkien used that specific word intentionally to mean multiple of those definitions considering the events directly after this happened.
>!The foreshadowing being both Snowmane and Theoden’s deaths!<
I feel like they both knew what was going to happen if they charged in and he did it anyway to inspire and lead, which would explain the temporary mental instability definition also.
Specifically, it is used four times in RotK and five times in the trilogy overall. Each time it is used in RotK it refers to one of the four leaders of Men. In order, I believe it is Aragorn, Denethor, Theoden, and Eomer.
For Aragorn it is the second definition. For Denethor, probably the fifth or fourth. For Theoden it is 100% the fourth. And for Eomer it is the first or second (Death! Death take us all! Ride to ruin and the world’s ending!).
So just like how he used "queer" in the classical sense of "strange, weird, odd or different", I see Tolkien using "fey" to convey a similar meaning but with "otherworldly" in addition, so "strange/different and otherworldly" I assume is what he meant.
Théoden was different from his usual self, something otherworldly came over him in what would be those final hours of his life, like the battle-fury of all of his ancestors flowing through him in his greatest moment, as of he were an old God charging into battle.
Both 4 and 5, though primarily 4. Théoden no longer seems like an ordinary human in this scene, but like a spirit or even deity. In this context, the word fey is closely linked to the word *fae,* though it is not the same, and it is in this context that Tolkien uses the word.
Otherworldly and alien, not merely in appearance but in attitude and mindset, combining it with 5. It isn’t exactly mentally *unstable,* it is a mindset so difficult to comprehend that it’s completely alien.
If you look at other uses of the word, one described as fey in Tolkien’s Legendarium is seized by madness, not mere insanity but an intense rage, an overwhelming fury, a burning maelstrom of emotion that cannot simply be called instability or mental illness but is instead described as something awe-inspiring, terrifying, and beyond our comprehension, like the faerie folk the word is inspired by.
TL:DR Tolkien uses fey to describe someone that is like a faerie. Not the cute little pixies with wings, but the more ancient, dangerous, amoral, and utterly alien being often called the Fair Folk, of which the Ainur, including Oromë who is mentioned here, are very similar to. He is comparing Théoden to them.
I've always understood 'fey' in this context to mean, "willing and ready to die". It can be for a cause, but that is less important to them than the sense that life is not worth continuing.
This is one of my favorite passages in the book. The shield like a sun; Oromë was in charge of carrying the sun and moon across the sky. The color of the field and his horse reflecting that of his banner. And the fact that in this moment Théoden is restored to all the speed and strength of his youth. Just beautiful.
I always took it as 5 so the passage would be “crazed he seemed, or the battle furry of his fathers…” but I could be wrong. I’m not Tolkien scholar or linguist.
I always interpreted it to mean that believing that he was riding to his death he had surrendered to that fate to the point of excluding all other cares, that this final ride was all that mattered in the world and he no longer had thought or care for anything else.
Tolkien often used words not just for their surface meaning, but for where they came from (since he was a philologist).
Fey obviously comes from fairies, the connatation being that you're acting like you're mind-controlled or possessed by something. In the case of Theoden it means that he's acting as if there wasn't any danger, pushing forward recklessly
Not quite. The word fey is in fact distinct from fae/faerie and not simply an alternate spelling. In the original Old English, fey referred to one who was fated/doomed, usually in a negative way, as OP wrote. The word fae(rie) is Old French.
However, the connotation of fate and the supernatural in the word fey, and the extremely similar spelling of fae or fay, led to the two words becoming closely associated.
Tolkien uses fay in a different way to describe Melian in earlier texts, before he had come up with the concept of Maiar, for example. He certainly means to describe her as otherworldly and alien, literally a faerie, but he uses the other word because fey carries with it an implication of intense emotion, akin to berserker rage and incomprehensible wildness. Since he was only describing what she was and not her emotions or mental state, he used the word fay instead.
Also, since his son died, Theoden has acted “fey”, There are times when Turin is “fey” in his aggressiveness.
It’s kinda - they are ball-deep nothing to lose will put themselves in harms way
Tolkien does this with a lot of words. “Fell” is also highly contextual, meaning to fall down, to slay someone, or to be evil. As others have stated, here he means “otherworldly”. All about dat context.
God just reading that was moving. Fey in this context meant filled with otherworldly power. He used the descriptor of Fey often in silmarillion to describe Feanor (who was described as having such a powerful soul that it burned his mother up during birth) as well as Fingolfin when he faced Morgoth at Angband when he essentially goes Super Sayian Noldor and is described as fierce as Orome I believe. Most of the characters that were described as Fey were Noldor elves who had seen the lights of the trees in valinor which was supposedly such a powerful/moving thing that it allowed those elves to be above the terrors of lesser evils such as Nazgûls etc. for Theoden and the Rohirric army to be described as Fey in this battle is essentially to say that they are like heroes of yore and that they were driven by Mandos/Eru to fulfill a great feats of valor.
You are confusing fey with the word fay. Fay is the one that means fairies.
Fey has a few definitions
Fated to die
Supernatural powers of clairvoyance
Give an impression of vague unworldliness
Otherworldly is what you're going for. Imagine that when you look at this person they stand out like everything around them pales a bit by comparison, like the universe itself is putting them into sharp relief. Theoden on Snowmane at that moment looked like a mythological figure come to life.
I take it to mean that he seemed a bit elvish. As if he had the power of his ancestors behind him.
The way I've seen "fay" or more commonly "fae" used is to mean something otherworldly. Pixies and fawns and that.
He seemed as though he had some power more than his usual self.
Otherworldly, in this context when preparing to charge the Pelennor he looked like something out of this world. A god, a spirit, something given to inspiring awe and fear other than his normal self especially given his story arc from ragged old man in Meduseld to the greatest King of Rohan.
A tip, for you and the 10 year old.
Look at the context of the rest of the sentence, then the rest of the passage. "Fey he seemed, or the battle-fury of his fathers ran like new fire in his veins and he was borne up on Snowmane like a **god of old, even as Oromë the Great in the battle of the Valar when the world was young**.
So we know that "Fey" is relating to vigor, presence, and some sort of divine/other worldly being. Of the definitions you found, which applies the best? 4 right? "Marked by an otherworldly air or attributes", like a god of old.
I interpret it as something like: "So convinced that his death is close at hand that he no longer acts rationally in the common sense."
And it is a common belief that when you're about to die, you have one foot already in the next world, and this gives you special powers that other men do not have, allowing you to perform almost superhuman feats.
Incidentally, one of the powers supposedly acquired when you're about to snuff it (though not applicable to Théoden here) is foresight. That's why Tolkien writes about seeing "with the eyes of death", like e.g. the dying Huor making a prophecy to Turgon (in the Silmarillion).
Maybe someone already wrote this, but I can't see it, so just for completeness.
The origin of the word fey is, according to Etymonline:
>from Old English *fæge* "doomed to die, fated, destined" ... and/or from Old Norse *feigr* \[with the same meaning\]
In addition to some of the excellent comments that have been made, I want to add that being "fey" in the sense that Tolkien used also implies a certain sort of fragility. People that are fey like that are almost always operating at a level above what is normal or sustainable. Fingolfin's state of mind when he was riding out to attack Morgoth could've also been described as "fey", IMO.
In Theodin's case: he knew that he was probably going die the whole time, but he \*didn't care\*. He stopped thinking about tomorrows, or worries about what may or may not happen: he wanted to fight! He wanted to lead his people and create a story that people would never forget! He wanted to make his ancestors proud of him! And he sure as Hell wasn't going to let anyone or anything stand in his way to achieving that. Thus, this "fey" mentality also encompasses a disregard for almost everything and instead a strong focus on the things that matter most to him at that moment. Even if he'd known for a fact that the Witch-king was going to show up the way it did, I doubt he would've done anything different... because he was in a fey mood.
4. Marked by an otherworldly air in this context Basically in this scene, when the Rohirrim charge the besieging orcs , the way Theoden looked on the lead of the line on his white horse resembled how Orome the valar looked when he charged on his horse Nahar in the ages of the lamps
Basically means he looked like a God/valar
Fay is usually representative for fairies and such right? Supernatural stuff.. Morgan la Fay from the king Arthur legend is what comes to mind
In this context, it means filled with an otherworldly spirit, as if he were a magical being. It doesn't mean that he actually has fairy powers.
Tell that to the horn he blasted apart just prior to this.
I just love the image of Guthlaf about to do his thing and Theoden snapping "just give me the damn thing!"
https://youtu.be/LPZrReZ5H9Q?si=ruCMehqKz9rjQvKn Here’s a clip of Tolkien reading that part. Gives me shivers. Hope you and your son enjoy!
Oh man I didnt know this existed till now. Thank you! Also got shivers. So so cool
I feel Tolkien used that specific word intentionally to mean multiple of those definitions considering the events directly after this happened. >!The foreshadowing being both Snowmane and Theoden’s deaths!< I feel like they both knew what was going to happen if they charged in and he did it anyway to inspire and lead, which would explain the temporary mental instability definition also.
Specifically, it is used four times in RotK and five times in the trilogy overall. Each time it is used in RotK it refers to one of the four leaders of Men. In order, I believe it is Aragorn, Denethor, Theoden, and Eomer. For Aragorn it is the second definition. For Denethor, probably the fifth or fourth. For Theoden it is 100% the fourth. And for Eomer it is the first or second (Death! Death take us all! Ride to ruin and the world’s ending!).
So just like how he used "queer" in the classical sense of "strange, weird, odd or different", I see Tolkien using "fey" to convey a similar meaning but with "otherworldly" in addition, so "strange/different and otherworldly" I assume is what he meant. Théoden was different from his usual self, something otherworldly came over him in what would be those final hours of his life, like the battle-fury of all of his ancestors flowing through him in his greatest moment, as of he were an old God charging into battle.
Both 4 and 5, though primarily 4. Théoden no longer seems like an ordinary human in this scene, but like a spirit or even deity. In this context, the word fey is closely linked to the word *fae,* though it is not the same, and it is in this context that Tolkien uses the word. Otherworldly and alien, not merely in appearance but in attitude and mindset, combining it with 5. It isn’t exactly mentally *unstable,* it is a mindset so difficult to comprehend that it’s completely alien. If you look at other uses of the word, one described as fey in Tolkien’s Legendarium is seized by madness, not mere insanity but an intense rage, an overwhelming fury, a burning maelstrom of emotion that cannot simply be called instability or mental illness but is instead described as something awe-inspiring, terrifying, and beyond our comprehension, like the faerie folk the word is inspired by. TL:DR Tolkien uses fey to describe someone that is like a faerie. Not the cute little pixies with wings, but the more ancient, dangerous, amoral, and utterly alien being often called the Fair Folk, of which the Ainur, including Oromë who is mentioned here, are very similar to. He is comparing Théoden to them.
I've always understood 'fey' in this context to mean, "willing and ready to die". It can be for a cause, but that is less important to them than the sense that life is not worth continuing.
I take it to mean reckless abandon.
This is one of my favorite passages in the book. The shield like a sun; Oromë was in charge of carrying the sun and moon across the sky. The color of the field and his horse reflecting that of his banner. And the fact that in this moment Théoden is restored to all the speed and strength of his youth. Just beautiful.
I always took it as 5 so the passage would be “crazed he seemed, or the battle furry of his fathers…” but I could be wrong. I’m not Tolkien scholar or linguist.
I always interpreted it to mean that believing that he was riding to his death he had surrendered to that fate to the point of excluding all other cares, that this final ride was all that mattered in the world and he no longer had thought or care for anything else.
Tolkien often used words not just for their surface meaning, but for where they came from (since he was a philologist). Fey obviously comes from fairies, the connatation being that you're acting like you're mind-controlled or possessed by something. In the case of Theoden it means that he's acting as if there wasn't any danger, pushing forward recklessly
Not quite. The word fey is in fact distinct from fae/faerie and not simply an alternate spelling. In the original Old English, fey referred to one who was fated/doomed, usually in a negative way, as OP wrote. The word fae(rie) is Old French. However, the connotation of fate and the supernatural in the word fey, and the extremely similar spelling of fae or fay, led to the two words becoming closely associated. Tolkien uses fay in a different way to describe Melian in earlier texts, before he had come up with the concept of Maiar, for example. He certainly means to describe her as otherworldly and alien, literally a faerie, but he uses the other word because fey carries with it an implication of intense emotion, akin to berserker rage and incomprehensible wildness. Since he was only describing what she was and not her emotions or mental state, he used the word fay instead.
Also, since his son died, Theoden has acted “fey”, There are times when Turin is “fey” in his aggressiveness. It’s kinda - they are ball-deep nothing to lose will put themselves in harms way
Tolkien does this with a lot of words. “Fell” is also highly contextual, meaning to fall down, to slay someone, or to be evil. As others have stated, here he means “otherworldly”. All about dat context.
God just reading that was moving. Fey in this context meant filled with otherworldly power. He used the descriptor of Fey often in silmarillion to describe Feanor (who was described as having such a powerful soul that it burned his mother up during birth) as well as Fingolfin when he faced Morgoth at Angband when he essentially goes Super Sayian Noldor and is described as fierce as Orome I believe. Most of the characters that were described as Fey were Noldor elves who had seen the lights of the trees in valinor which was supposedly such a powerful/moving thing that it allowed those elves to be above the terrors of lesser evils such as Nazgûls etc. for Theoden and the Rohirric army to be described as Fey in this battle is essentially to say that they are like heroes of yore and that they were driven by Mandos/Eru to fulfill a great feats of valor.
Supernatural
Otherworldly, magical
He seemed to be a fey, or a fairy-folk, creature of myths, an elf.
You are confusing fey with the word fay. Fay is the one that means fairies. Fey has a few definitions Fated to die Supernatural powers of clairvoyance Give an impression of vague unworldliness
Thank you, not a native speaker here
No problem. Those two words are easily confused, even by people whose first language is English
It's even more confusing when you add Fae into the mix.
When Tolkien uses it, it often seems to mean something in between “crazy” and “possessed by a higher power or doom”.
Yes I agree
Otherworldly is what you're going for. Imagine that when you look at this person they stand out like everything around them pales a bit by comparison, like the universe itself is putting them into sharp relief. Theoden on Snowmane at that moment looked like a mythological figure come to life.
I take it to mean that he seemed a bit elvish. As if he had the power of his ancestors behind him. The way I've seen "fay" or more commonly "fae" used is to mean something otherworldly. Pixies and fawns and that. He seemed as though he had some power more than his usual self.
A fierce impassioned boldness
Otherworldly, in this context when preparing to charge the Pelennor he looked like something out of this world. A god, a spirit, something given to inspiring awe and fear other than his normal self especially given his story arc from ragged old man in Meduseld to the greatest King of Rohan.
A tip, for you and the 10 year old. Look at the context of the rest of the sentence, then the rest of the passage. "Fey he seemed, or the battle-fury of his fathers ran like new fire in his veins and he was borne up on Snowmane like a **god of old, even as Oromë the Great in the battle of the Valar when the world was young**. So we know that "Fey" is relating to vigor, presence, and some sort of divine/other worldly being. Of the definitions you found, which applies the best? 4 right? "Marked by an otherworldly air or attributes", like a god of old.
I interpret it as something like: "So convinced that his death is close at hand that he no longer acts rationally in the common sense." And it is a common belief that when you're about to die, you have one foot already in the next world, and this gives you special powers that other men do not have, allowing you to perform almost superhuman feats.
Incidentally, one of the powers supposedly acquired when you're about to snuff it (though not applicable to Théoden here) is foresight. That's why Tolkien writes about seeing "with the eyes of death", like e.g. the dying Huor making a prophecy to Turgon (in the Silmarillion). Maybe someone already wrote this, but I can't see it, so just for completeness. The origin of the word fey is, according to Etymonline: >from Old English *fæge* "doomed to die, fated, destined" ... and/or from Old Norse *feigr* \[with the same meaning\]
In addition to some of the excellent comments that have been made, I want to add that being "fey" in the sense that Tolkien used also implies a certain sort of fragility. People that are fey like that are almost always operating at a level above what is normal or sustainable. Fingolfin's state of mind when he was riding out to attack Morgoth could've also been described as "fey", IMO. In Theodin's case: he knew that he was probably going die the whole time, but he \*didn't care\*. He stopped thinking about tomorrows, or worries about what may or may not happen: he wanted to fight! He wanted to lead his people and create a story that people would never forget! He wanted to make his ancestors proud of him! And he sure as Hell wasn't going to let anyone or anything stand in his way to achieving that. Thus, this "fey" mentality also encompasses a disregard for almost everything and instead a strong focus on the things that matter most to him at that moment. Even if he'd known for a fact that the Witch-king was going to show up the way it did, I doubt he would've done anything different... because he was in a fey mood.