I'll always type this: the most popular Mac is the base model MBA. Let that always be your reminder in life that MOST mac users are gleefully typing away on a base model Air with zero concerns.
Great chance you can easily use an Air in your life....but you'll read a few comments going "well you should get 16gb" and "you should get a pro" and boom - you're now $500-800+ more in your budget for zero reason.
Sure, your video editing for your amateur project was a few seconds faster, but at what price?
Agree completely. The spanner in the works however is that a ram upgrade (if you want/need it) means the air snaps at the heels, price wise, of the 14” pro, which has a better screen, longer battery life and so on.
Apples pricing ladder is real!
Almost. Since the M3 refresh the pros have gone back down to 8gb on the base model. For £300 you get the pro, same M3 chip, but all the extras the pros have over the 15” air. Including double the storage as standard.
If you’re someone who’ll be paying monthly, it’s only an extra tenner or so per month for the pro…
Oh my goodness Apple's pricing is horrendous. In the past, the the present, and I can confidently state in the future. It's almost as if they purposely overprice their products.
I read last year that they were considering cheaper MBAs. I hope so as I'd love to teach my child how to to type on a MBA, and let them grow with one through their elementary life :)
They’re all priced upwards of what they theoretically should be. But while ever a MacBook is performance and feature wise as good as other laptops in their respective class, they won’t “cheapen” their image.
If they did though, it would certainly light a fire under the hoards of shitty chrome book manufacturers that churn out junk every year….
People make the prices out to be a lot closer than they really are. The 16gb/512gb 13” Air is $1499 from Apple. The 14” “Pro” with the regular M3 (that shouldn’t exist) for the same spec is $1799. To upgrade to a similarly specced 14” actual Pro it’s $1999, a full $500 or 1/3 more.
Sure there’s the argument that $1999 Pro is regularly on sale for $1799 at places like BestBuy and Amazon, but now that the 16gb/512gb Air is an in stock configuration it also is regularly on sale for a similar amount off.
I agree with most of your post but telling anyone a 8GB RAM model is fine in 2024 is just irresponsible. It’s fine today, tomorrow, and maybe next year but if that person intends to keep that device for multiple years, could be opening the door for disaster
My dad is happily using my 4GB RAM MacBook Air mid-2013. Is he maybe in the minority? Sure, but the point is that for some, 8GB really is enough. Not for you and me, that’s clear, but the Earth spins for everyone
There is an ongoing trend on my county's Facebook page where individuals frequently suggest purchasing a 16GB Macbook Pro without asking about the user's specific requirements. This pattern also extends to recommendations for iPads and iPhones. It appears that Apple's marketing strategies have been very effective, leading people to automatically assume that non-Pro models are inadequate and consequently overspend on products they may not necessarily require.
lols wish i would of read this before i purchase the macbook pro a few months earlier. Most really people dont need a pro unless they are doing heavy sessions for a long period of time.
yep. you can make a game like the original Tomb Raider with 64mb of ram. that's MB, not GB.
i recommend 64mb of ram.
some suggest 640K ought to be enough for anybody.
If it was, its biggest user base would reject it and Apple would be forced to respond. Happens all the type. It just happened with their new "vegan leather" accessories.
It's just unacceptable to you, and that's fine, but it's not an over-arching thought at all. When I was a HAM I realized that so few workers actually knew the specs of the device they were using.
Whine for a Mac? OK. Throw 'em a base MBA or shoot, even a base MBP and it was like giving someone a pacifier. Only person who "knew" was the program as they had to pay for the pleasure.
Again, I understand that it's super easy in 2024 for Apple to throw 16 in a device and experience a very limited cost difference. I'm not mad though if they're still using 8 as its user base its predominant user base is blind, ignorant, and frankly are not in need.
They didn't say anything about Apple Intelligence requiring extra RAM; just that it requires an M1. [https://www.apple.com/apple-intelligence/](https://www.apple.com/apple-intelligence/)
I'm using the 14" MBP just for the display outputs. tbh I could probably get away with using one monitor though. I feel more productive with the second one off
The only thing I should get is more storage space as I tend to keep my iCloud Photos, Apple Music library, and iCloud Drive files downloaded for offline or faster access.
ehh idk. I'm often stunned when I see people's WFH setups. they literally spend 8 hours 3-5 days a week hunched over a 14" laptop. they could spend a few hundred out of pocket to get a decent external monitor, keyboard, etc., but the thought doesn't even occur to them. I understand some people have the principle that their employer ought to pay for that, but if nothing else, they should care about their own body.
but of a tangent, but my point is normal people often tolerate terrible tools for no real reason. they don't understand what day-to-day annoyances could be fixed by bumping a few key specs or buying a couple extra tools.
>Let that always be your reminder in life that MOST mac users are gleefully typing away on a base model Air with zero concerns.
Morbo says plurality does not work that way!
It can be the most popular without MOST users using it. If a company has 5 products, and they take 15, 20, 20, 20, and 25% of the market, the last one is the most popular but still a far cry from "most users are using it".
I dont think that changes your underlying point that its a lot of people and that they are both happy and easy to overlook, but i believe in calling out logic issues when they *arent* important to draw attention then because when it *is* actually important to the topic at hand people are usually too emotionally charged to listen.
Someone should tell that to my company. I asked for a new laptop (we use Dell) and they offered me a Mac (Mac guy since 1989) - M3 Max with 32gb RAM. FOR WORD, EXCEL, and POWERPOINT.
I’m not complaining, but an M2 MBA with 16gb RAM would have been fine.
I wonder how they justify the expense. Is it them simply ticking off the top spec for longevity or the IT guys implemented that policy so they could always get the best specs to play with 😂
No idea.
I guess they’re not familiar with the Apple ecosystem and just said, “fuck it, this looks good.”
I told them it was overkill but they didn’t want to manage multiple configurations.
Standardizing on a config that should last 5~ years solves a lot of other logistical issues in support.
IT generally realized to go heavy on ram decades ago.
Listen I agree with you for the most part but for some people it’s their first time approaching the Mac ecosystem, and they don’t necessarily know how their specs on windows will transfer over.
For some people, 32 gb of ram on windows is a necessity but 16 on Mac is plenty, or maybe they’re used to fans going haywire on long periods of work and think they need a mbp because it has a fan, whereas an air would be just fine because of the power efficiency for their use case.
While I agree most of this can probably be solved by googling a little, I don’t think it’s that big of a deal to help people that need guidance concerning the lineup.
Lets not turn into the Linux community 😜
It’s an overarching issue across any community now where there’s a lack of due diligence on figuring out if something will work based on others experience. No one is taking the 30 seconds to search the subreddit for similar experiences to get a base line. It’s an immediate “will X work with Y setup. Will Z be a better alternative” that ends up with the same responses as the other 100 posts of the same question
Hahaha all good, thanks for your comment. I definitely agree that it’s no big deal to offer help/guidance, I just wish it wasn’t so often for the same thing and something that someone could easily come to their own conclusion 😅
But how will I know if I should get this maxed out spec laptop just to write basic code for my intro CS class? How will I know if my spec can handle YouTube playback? How will I know if I should drink some fluids today, or eat some food? I can’t do this without others opinions!
i go to a big state school, so many CS kids that all code is written on a education website on a browser, and the code runs on their servers for at least the first 2.5 years. Thus making CS the major that requires the lowest computer specs in the whole college. Art kids need to run design, business kids need excel, engineering kids run sims etc. CS can be done on the shittiest chromebook haha
Eh, the job market is tough right now, especially for new grads, but it's not hopeless. Tech's always been in boom/bust cycles, so it'll change eventually. If it's something you want to do, it's worth sticking to it. And that MacBook Pro will probably be good for a long time anyway.
I always tell people to buy the most expensive system they can realistically afford. Everyone will want more RAM and more storage at some point in their life, but, no point in delaying the purchase for the future when the one you can buy today will still be a huge upgrade if you’re coming from a 3+ year old machine.
You might want to even if it's overkill for now. Several years later it most likely will be a mid-to-low-range device. A few hundred dollars up front will give you a lower overall total cost of ownership (assuming you choose to keep the it for those extra years of useful life).
I tend to overbuy in the present so I don't need to buy again as soon. (More important now since you can't just pop in more RAM or internal storage anymore.)
My M1 original 13” MacBook Pro with base specs (other than 512gb storage) is still snapping at the heels of most windows laptop under £1k performance wise. And that machine is four years old…
I disagree that in a few years time what you buy now will be low/midrange. The cheap stuff will have to get a LOT better to be on par with pretty much any M series machine for a good while yet, especially if you’re not buying a base model.
> Several years later it most likely will be a mid-to-low-range device.
It won’t. The difference between basic and pro/max/ultra is the number of cores and 95% of what people do is single-core, meaning you won’t see a difference between a base MBA and a 5000$ Mac Studio unless you’re doing some very specific multi-core tasks.
Counterpoint:
* Something more performant than a base model is going to last longer.
* Pros are going to have a higher residual/resale value, when you consider that they often don't cost that much more. If we say that a Mac depreciates by 50% after 5 years, a $999 Air depreciates to $500 and a $1500 Pro depreciates to $750; you aren't paying *that much more*.
Not saying that most people shouldn't just use a base model, but it is not universal.
I would never recommend anyone buy a machine with 8GB RAM. It might not be much of an issue right now for a basic user but since it's not upgradable, it will undoubtedly shorten the usable lifespan of the machine.
The latter. It will become so slow with future software demands and updates that you won't want to use it. Look at any older MacBook with 4GB RAM, you can't do anything with them anymore. Same thing will happen to 8GB machines in a few short years
The exception here is in regards to future-proofing. If I know that I wanna hang on to a machine for many years, and will be installing Linux on it after MacOS support ends, then I am for sure boosting the RAM and maybe getting the better processor too.
For me, it's more about reusability, and making sure I'm not low-balling the specs just to save a couple hundred bucks, cause some minor upgrades might add years of life to that machine.
I have a base, 8GB Mac mini. I keep it hooked to a monitor in my home office. I use it for MS Office, watch streaming services, do some VERY LIGHT Final Cut Pro, mess around online, play WoW at medium settings, etc.
It works fine. I will replace it eventually. But I feel like if I wanted to do some more work on FCP or whatever? I'd want the 16GB memory. However, this mini was on sale at Best Buy for like $500. If I decide to upgrade later? I will still sell it for an OK amount and get the better version.
Not everyone is looking to keep their computer for 10 years or wants to do the fancy stuff. So, in spirit, I agree with the OP. But I am right at the edge of the use case for this 8GB version, and if the 16GB was not something ridiculous more expensive, I'd get it.
I used to be a "Pro" user for my line of work. Now in a different line of work my personal MBA 16gb 250gb is sufficient for what I need even with some design and video editing I do for fun these days. I agree if you need to ask you don't need it. I was worried the MBA might not live up to my standard but it's been better than fine. My only gripe is my external monitor is meh with it.
I remember I’ve asked here, two years ago, for anyone having a M1 Max only one thing - how loud they are, if they are at all, before buying mine.
Your post is totally understandable because we are being flooded with each of the Apple hardware updates - it was like that with M2, now it’s with M3, it would be like that with M4 and so on, and so on
It’s also possible that people just genuinely don’t know. MacBooks are an entirely different breed to other laptops, it makes sense for people to be confused, if they’re new to Mac.
Regardless, no matter which model you choose, you should *always* upgrade to at least 16GB ram. 8GB just doesn’t cut it, anymore.
I’d also get at least 512GB of storage, too, since 256GB is also not enough for computers, anymore.
Honestly, the only upgrade I believe should have a significant additional cost to it is the chip itself. Like, if you upgrade from M3 to M3 Pro, to M3 Max, etc., because here, there’s a significant performance boost.
But yeah, the ram and storage upgrades should cost less. I know they’ll never be truly cheap, because it’s Apple, but they still cost too much.
Yep! I used to be an Apple “fanboy” I had a Mac (still do unfortunately), Apple Watch, AirPods iPhone, now I’ve ditched everything except the phone and Mac, I also only have the Mac because my school doesn’t let us use windows.
I’d still consider myself to be an Apple fanboy. I’ve got the entire Apple ecosystem, and honestly, I’m happy with it. Happier than I ever was with Android. But that still doesn’t mean I won’t criticize Apple where criticism is due.
That’s honestly very fair. I must admit I’ll never leave the iPhone (I’m going to upgrade to the 16 pro) but i love my Bose headphones over the AirPods Pro, and I love the look of a classy watch that is also only 40 dollars so I don’t have to worry about it as much.
Whatever you do, DO NOT BUY A MBP WITH 8GB OF RAM!!!! I made this STUPID mistake about a year ago and it is so painful to use. I’m a music producer for reference, I loaded in some stems for a remix and it used over half my available ram.
It is unfortunate how many questions I see asked across subreddits focused on Apple products that reinforce the stereotype that Mac/Apple users have no idea how to use a computer.
I'd say that's a very popular opinion.
If you don't know that you need more than 24GB of RAM or a Pro/Max CPU then an Air is more than likely plenty good enough.
The problem is not that an 8GB one is sufficient for most. The problem is that once you get an 8GB mac you arebstuck with it as it is not upgradable.
This approach is pretty silly to be honest because I might not need 8GB now but who know what would happen 1 year down the line. This is the reason I always recommend to get the 16GB one to avoid having to buy a new laptop because you can't upgrade it.
I’m an iOS Dev and I am thinking of getting a Macbook. My current one is Macbook Pro 2018 with Core i7. I know M series chips are faster but I don’t know if an MBA can handle my workload. But people are saying it can. How would I know without other’s opinion?
I'm developer, the m1 is very performant, in the past I used mba with i5 dual-core, is really slow to build ios project especially on unity, no problem with the m1.
I got my first MacBook Pro back in 2010, when the regular MacBooks were plastic. I went with the MBP due in part to the build differences (aluminum vs. plastic), though in hindsight, those plastic ones looked cool and were pretty durable. I made the switch to the Air last year, and it has been a great decision so far. Great battery, great portability, and with more power than the Intel MBPs.
New users would benefit from buying an older Mac that can be worked on and souping it up - new SSD, more ram, and install an OS via OCLP.
Check iFixit for difficulty factor on a used unit.
I have a G4 PowerBook 5,7 (Panther) & 2008 MBP 5,1 (Mojave/dosdude1 High Sierra/Sonoma) both have new SSD and increased ram and are super fast for audio recording and running older Adobe programs. Limits the subscription services needed too.
I don't think new users would be up for all that upgrading and tinkering. Most will prefer something reliable and current enough that they don't have to mess much with.
I mean... unless Apple were kinda caught off guard by LLMs and only the "pro" versions of the current lineup have the hardware to run them well. And no, not maliciously, just bad timing. So, if you want those "AI" features but otherwise are a casual user, and don't want to wait, then you should buy a Pro.
Apple has a new webpage to help folks select:
[https://www.apple.com/mac/best-mac/](https://www.apple.com/mac/best-mac/)
This link should be the response to every "what should I buy" post.
True story: I worked for Apple Retail for a few years. We’d get the occasional famous person in there. One day, a well-known sports announcer for ESPN comes in because the new MBP had released the day before. He said he always gets the new, top of the line model every year right when it comes out. He literally only wanted the most expensive one.
This was back around 2010, when the 17” MBP was the top model with the anti-glare screen. Asking him if he needed it for video, photography, or worked a lot outdoors (no to all), I recommended the regular screen because it just has richer tones when consuming video. He wasn’t doing any content creation of any type, so I explained that the matte screen was really for color accuracy when editing images and such. Helps so color reflections don’t interfere.
The antiglare was more expensive by $100, so I showed him the laptops side by side. His response, “Wow, you’re right! That one does look better …but this one is more expensive.”
After a few minutes, guess what he went with! Paid in cash, obviously. 🙄
What will settle this argument once and for all is going to be when Apple reveals what Apple Silicon macs are losing software support first.
I imagine they can get away with deprecating the 8GB M1s at the same time as 16GB ones, but will they support M1 Pro for longer than M1? Exactly how many revisions more?
If it is far enough in the future, they might get away with discontinuing base/pro/max & ultra chip variants of the same generation at the same time.
I didn't know. So I bought the air. I then realised, unfortunately beyond the two weeks, that for some unknown reason, they've hamstrung it and that in 2024 you cannot natively run two screens on the MacBook Air...
Honestly, I got a pro as a hads me down from my dad.
But I don't use it, I have a Windows for when i need actual stuff done, I use my MBP for school work, literally. MBA would've been just as fine for me.
Though I must say, you don't always know how much you need. Sometimes you think you're fine with less cause that's all you have.
eh. what anyone should do is just watch performance comparison videos and be honest with themselves about what they have done, are doing, and likely will do with their machine. hobbies you have today may become different hobbies tomorrow that demand more from your system.
I was able to get a MBP M3 pro 18gb ram/512gb ssd 14” on sale for 1700, just 200 more than the price of a comparably spec’d air. that’s a machine with better performance/active cooling, a slightly bigger screen, way more ports and a better display. no brainer.
however, if I was forced to choose one or the other at full price, I’d likely go air. awesome form factor, the one area it clearly beats the MBP, other than price
If you’re keeping for a long amount of time and think your needs might change, go for 16/512, which comes standard with M2 Pro, a good recommendation. Though, if you just need an laptop, a base M1/M2 air will suffice.
Do what I did. Learn about OPENCORE! My son and I each have 2014 15” MacBook Pro’s with i7 quads, 16gb of ram, 1TB drives. One of these I bought for $100 on FB Marketplace, the other I traded 3 hrs of chainsaw work for.
With OPENCORE we are able to run the latest MacOS, for free. A group of engineers work on this project and send out updates a month or two after Apple releases their updates. The boot up time is 15-20 seconds slower as all the custom video and other hardware drivers load. Then it runs very snappy, as it was when brand new.
I also have a 2012 13” MBPro (i5 duo, 8gb, 500gb) a work colleague gave me because the screen died. It wasn’t worth replacing because used 13” MBP with same specs were cheaper than even a used replacement screen at the time. I hung onto it anyway hoping I could score a screen somehow. About a year later my fellow Apple nerd buddy was given the exact same MBP that had a bad MotherBoard. We swapped the screens and he sold the machine with bad MoBo and bad screen on eBay for parts for $75. It now sits on my coffee table as a quick reference/online shopping tool. With OPENCORE, it too will run the latest MacOS, and is perfect for surfing and shopping.
Yes, at some point Apple will stop supporting the Intel Macs, but they sold Intels as recently as 2022 I believe, and this year’s new OS out this fall (the beta is out and the OpenCore guys are already working on the upgrade, they guess it will be fall, I bet Oct to Nov.) These MBP will be usable for 5-6 more years!
I’m a pretty hard-core user, but in the end the only thing that taxes my computer is converting MKV format anime files into MP4 so I can work with them more easily, or possibly outputting a short video for YouTube. If I did a lot more of the ladder I would need a pro machine, but my MacBook Air is generally fine.
Apple silicon Macs are so powerful that most people don’t need the pro. I’m someone who thought I needed a pro and got the 14” M1 Pro but I could do the same work with an M2 air. But 120Hz is a must for me and I needed an hdmi port
Fully agree with a caveat. I'm a graphic designer and I use a 16" M2 MBP, and she's a hell of a machine. Still, when I look at how thin and light my husband's 13" MacBook Air is... dang, that thing is sexy. If it didn't mean losing the XDR display, I'd really consider downgrading to an Air. Adobe CC is obnoxiously single-core anyway, and I suspect I wouldn't notice a huge performance difference. Could be wrong.
Just get what you really want. If you have MacBook Air money at the moment but you really deep down want that Pro, don’t settle for the Air get the one you actually want even if it means saving up a bit longer. When I got my first MacBook back in college back in 2015 my heart wanted the Pro because I loved everything about it but at the time I only had Air money so I settled and got the Air and every time I used it I wasn’t happy because I knew I should have waited and got the Pro. There is nothing wrong with wanting the top of the line machine with the best screen, speakers, etc just because you simply want it. Nothing wrong with that and always get the thing you actually wanted. Don’t settle at all.
you can pull my oled screen out of my cold dead hands, lol. the new pro is the nicest strongest most beautiful computing device I've ever used. My use case is for business so prob could have gotten away with the new air but pro-motion, oled and face ID were what put me over. I have those specs on my years old iPhone 13 pro so to buy a new iPad air with lower specs just didn't work for me. Granted, I'm paying for that luxury but I plan to have this device for 10 years so...
You got points but Pro machine is not only for Pro user.
I’m using a MacBook Pro 16” for media consumption because it has gorgeous screen and awesome speakers and I think its perfectly fine.
I mean you’ve entirely missed the point of this post and are really agreeing with it but ok.
No, you do not need pro, you just said it yourself. Just because you can afford it, doesn’t mean you need it. It really is not for you, it’s not made for watching movies. I don’t think anyone cares about you or anyone else wasting their money on excessive purchases, but this is in regards to people on the cusp and looking at the money to see what is the most sensible/most gained value for them, they definitely should not be getting pro in that scenario. You buying pro when you really didn’t need it doesn’t really matter.
Much like I cringed when some family members bought macbook pros and ipad pros for their uni courses that really didn’t need them… one of them broke both, cannot afford to replace or fix, the other doesn’t even use the ipad, it’s basically brand new. Great investment.
Disagree! In my case I came over from Windows and never had an Apple device before in my life. I too couldn't decide between Air vs Pro, 16 GB RAM vs 32 GB RAM. Came across a lot of posts sharing the same sentiment you have which just isn't helpful. Did my own due diligence and ended up with M1 Pro and 32 GB RAM and don't regret my choice in the slightest :)
I would never recommend that anyone not totally tech savvy use a Mac with an external drive. Most folks don't know how to do it and just assume it's going to be automagic when it's really not. Macs like it when you store things in their proper user folders and edit video off the internal drive. Didn't used to be that way, but it is now with the M series and their fiber connection to the SoC.
I'll always type this: the most popular Mac is the base model MBA. Let that always be your reminder in life that MOST mac users are gleefully typing away on a base model Air with zero concerns. Great chance you can easily use an Air in your life....but you'll read a few comments going "well you should get 16gb" and "you should get a pro" and boom - you're now $500-800+ more in your budget for zero reason. Sure, your video editing for your amateur project was a few seconds faster, but at what price?
Agree completely. The spanner in the works however is that a ram upgrade (if you want/need it) means the air snaps at the heels, price wise, of the 14” pro, which has a better screen, longer battery life and so on. Apples pricing ladder is real!
Is it though? The starter MacBook Pro would be only 8gb and still be more expensive than an upgraded Air.
Almost. Since the M3 refresh the pros have gone back down to 8gb on the base model. For £300 you get the pro, same M3 chip, but all the extras the pros have over the 15” air. Including double the storage as standard. If you’re someone who’ll be paying monthly, it’s only an extra tenner or so per month for the pro…
Oh my goodness Apple's pricing is horrendous. In the past, the the present, and I can confidently state in the future. It's almost as if they purposely overprice their products. I read last year that they were considering cheaper MBAs. I hope so as I'd love to teach my child how to to type on a MBA, and let them grow with one through their elementary life :)
They’re all priced upwards of what they theoretically should be. But while ever a MacBook is performance and feature wise as good as other laptops in their respective class, they won’t “cheapen” their image. If they did though, it would certainly light a fire under the hoards of shitty chrome book manufacturers that churn out junk every year….
Windows S is more usable than a chromebook, ugh
> It's almost as if they purposely overprice their products. What's this "almost" you speak of?
People make the prices out to be a lot closer than they really are. The 16gb/512gb 13” Air is $1499 from Apple. The 14” “Pro” with the regular M3 (that shouldn’t exist) for the same spec is $1799. To upgrade to a similarly specced 14” actual Pro it’s $1999, a full $500 or 1/3 more. Sure there’s the argument that $1999 Pro is regularly on sale for $1799 at places like BestBuy and Amazon, but now that the 16gb/512gb Air is an in stock configuration it also is regularly on sale for a similar amount off.
8GB is definitely usable but it’s not comfortable. I don’t do any video editing but I found myself needing more ram doing what I do
I agree with most of your post but telling anyone a 8GB RAM model is fine in 2024 is just irresponsible. It’s fine today, tomorrow, and maybe next year but if that person intends to keep that device for multiple years, could be opening the door for disaster
My dad is happily using my 4GB RAM MacBook Air mid-2013. Is he maybe in the minority? Sure, but the point is that for some, 8GB really is enough. Not for you and me, that’s clear, but the Earth spins for everyone
There is an ongoing trend on my county's Facebook page where individuals frequently suggest purchasing a 16GB Macbook Pro without asking about the user's specific requirements. This pattern also extends to recommendations for iPads and iPhones. It appears that Apple's marketing strategies have been very effective, leading people to automatically assume that non-Pro models are inadequate and consequently overspend on products they may not necessarily require.
True words have never been spoken!
But it's space black... (Yes, I recently talked myself into a M3P, while I could've gone for a M3 Air. No regrets though)
It's your money so please, have fun with it! :)
lols wish i would of read this before i purchase the macbook pro a few months earlier. Most really people dont need a pro unless they are doing heavy sessions for a long period of time.
8gb of Ram Is still unacceptable.
I literally make a living off video editing with a 8gb MacBook Pro
Yep but 8GB “isn’t enough” 😂
If you have 8gb ram, log off the internet, go to your bed, and die in a hole.
yep. you can make a game like the original Tomb Raider with 64mb of ram. that's MB, not GB. i recommend 64mb of ram. some suggest 640K ought to be enough for anybody.
Congratulations
It’s fine for plenty of people.
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Sure it does. You act like 8GB PC aren’t a thing. It’s entry level. Want more, upgrade.
If it was, its biggest user base would reject it and Apple would be forced to respond. Happens all the type. It just happened with their new "vegan leather" accessories. It's just unacceptable to you, and that's fine, but it's not an over-arching thought at all. When I was a HAM I realized that so few workers actually knew the specs of the device they were using. Whine for a Mac? OK. Throw 'em a base MBA or shoot, even a base MBP and it was like giving someone a pacifier. Only person who "knew" was the program as they had to pay for the pleasure. Again, I understand that it's super easy in 2024 for Apple to throw 16 in a device and experience a very limited cost difference. I'm not mad though if they're still using 8 as its user base its predominant user base is blind, ignorant, and frankly are not in need.
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They didn't say anything about Apple Intelligence requiring extra RAM; just that it requires an M1. [https://www.apple.com/apple-intelligence/](https://www.apple.com/apple-intelligence/)
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Get grandma an iPad instead!
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For kids agree, for grandmas not
I'm using the 14" MBP just for the display outputs. tbh I could probably get away with using one monitor though. I feel more productive with the second one off
The only thing I should get is more storage space as I tend to keep my iCloud Photos, Apple Music library, and iCloud Drive files downloaded for offline or faster access.
ehh idk. I'm often stunned when I see people's WFH setups. they literally spend 8 hours 3-5 days a week hunched over a 14" laptop. they could spend a few hundred out of pocket to get a decent external monitor, keyboard, etc., but the thought doesn't even occur to them. I understand some people have the principle that their employer ought to pay for that, but if nothing else, they should care about their own body. but of a tangent, but my point is normal people often tolerate terrible tools for no real reason. they don't understand what day-to-day annoyances could be fixed by bumping a few key specs or buying a couple extra tools.
>Let that always be your reminder in life that MOST mac users are gleefully typing away on a base model Air with zero concerns. Morbo says plurality does not work that way! It can be the most popular without MOST users using it. If a company has 5 products, and they take 15, 20, 20, 20, and 25% of the market, the last one is the most popular but still a far cry from "most users are using it". I dont think that changes your underlying point that its a lot of people and that they are both happy and easy to overlook, but i believe in calling out logic issues when they *arent* important to draw attention then because when it *is* actually important to the topic at hand people are usually too emotionally charged to listen.
Someone should tell that to my company. I asked for a new laptop (we use Dell) and they offered me a Mac (Mac guy since 1989) - M3 Max with 32gb RAM. FOR WORD, EXCEL, and POWERPOINT. I’m not complaining, but an M2 MBA with 16gb RAM would have been fine.
Those PowerPoints have to be snappy!!!!
So many animations!
I wonder how they justify the expense. Is it them simply ticking off the top spec for longevity or the IT guys implemented that policy so they could always get the best specs to play with 😂
No idea. I guess they’re not familiar with the Apple ecosystem and just said, “fuck it, this looks good.” I told them it was overkill but they didn’t want to manage multiple configurations.
They get them in bulk for much lower prices than we consumers can
Standardizing on a config that should last 5~ years solves a lot of other logistical issues in support. IT generally realized to go heavy on ram decades ago.
Listen I agree with you for the most part but for some people it’s their first time approaching the Mac ecosystem, and they don’t necessarily know how their specs on windows will transfer over. For some people, 32 gb of ram on windows is a necessity but 16 on Mac is plenty, or maybe they’re used to fans going haywire on long periods of work and think they need a mbp because it has a fan, whereas an air would be just fine because of the power efficiency for their use case. While I agree most of this can probably be solved by googling a little, I don’t think it’s that big of a deal to help people that need guidance concerning the lineup. Lets not turn into the Linux community 😜
It’s an overarching issue across any community now where there’s a lack of due diligence on figuring out if something will work based on others experience. No one is taking the 30 seconds to search the subreddit for similar experiences to get a base line. It’s an immediate “will X work with Y setup. Will Z be a better alternative” that ends up with the same responses as the other 100 posts of the same question
Overarching is generally a Linux issue
btw
If people don’t know how to use the search feature on Reddit, much less on Google, they shouldn’t have products that connect to the internet 😂
Hahaha all good, thanks for your comment. I definitely agree that it’s no big deal to offer help/guidance, I just wish it wasn’t so often for the same thing and something that someone could easily come to their own conclusion 😅
But how will I know if I should get this maxed out spec laptop just to write basic code for my intro CS class? How will I know if my spec can handle YouTube playback? How will I know if I should drink some fluids today, or eat some food? I can’t do this without others opinions!
These are all valid questions that this sub should continue to answer. /s
egad! 😂
Buying a Macbook Pro for CS class. A golden combination you will never get a return out of nowadays.
how so?
i go to a big state school, so many CS kids that all code is written on a education website on a browser, and the code runs on their servers for at least the first 2.5 years. Thus making CS the major that requires the lowest computer specs in the whole college. Art kids need to run design, business kids need excel, engineering kids run sims etc. CS can be done on the shittiest chromebook haha
No jobs for CS grads. So you buy an expensive Macbook in combination with an expensive study for which you will find no job for.
I'm a CS student with a macbook pro... RIP
Eh, the job market is tough right now, especially for new grads, but it's not hopeless. Tech's always been in boom/bust cycles, so it'll change eventually. If it's something you want to do, it's worth sticking to it. And that MacBook Pro will probably be good for a long time anyway.
I always tell people to buy the most expensive system they can realistically afford. Everyone will want more RAM and more storage at some point in their life, but, no point in delaying the purchase for the future when the one you can buy today will still be a huge upgrade if you’re coming from a 3+ year old machine.
Amen.
True words
100% If you’re not often sitting there waiting for your computer to do something, you don’t need a pro.
My attitude has been “what is the cheapest configuration I can get away with using?” and it’s worked for me so far.
My attitude is kinda the opposite "what's the absolute best one I can afford and not go broke".
My attitude has and is "what's the best bang for buck I can get."
Why attitude is " how can I get the best possible device for the lowest price posible."
You might want to even if it's overkill for now. Several years later it most likely will be a mid-to-low-range device. A few hundred dollars up front will give you a lower overall total cost of ownership (assuming you choose to keep the it for those extra years of useful life). I tend to overbuy in the present so I don't need to buy again as soon. (More important now since you can't just pop in more RAM or internal storage anymore.)
My M1 original 13” MacBook Pro with base specs (other than 512gb storage) is still snapping at the heels of most windows laptop under £1k performance wise. And that machine is four years old… I disagree that in a few years time what you buy now will be low/midrange. The cheap stuff will have to get a LOT better to be on par with pretty much any M series machine for a good while yet, especially if you’re not buying a base model.
> Several years later it most likely will be a mid-to-low-range device. It won’t. The difference between basic and pro/max/ultra is the number of cores and 95% of what people do is single-core, meaning you won’t see a difference between a base MBA and a 5000$ Mac Studio unless you’re doing some very specific multi-core tasks.
Counterpoint: * Something more performant than a base model is going to last longer. * Pros are going to have a higher residual/resale value, when you consider that they often don't cost that much more. If we say that a Mac depreciates by 50% after 5 years, a $999 Air depreciates to $500 and a $1500 Pro depreciates to $750; you aren't paying *that much more*. Not saying that most people shouldn't just use a base model, but it is not universal.
Taking a 256GB ssd MacBook is the worst decision I ever made.
I would never recommend anyone buy a machine with 8GB RAM. It might not be much of an issue right now for a basic user but since it's not upgradable, it will undoubtedly shorten the usable lifespan of the machine.
SO TRUE!! I was stupid and bought a MBP with 8GB of ram and using it is absolute HELL! I’m a music producer btw so RAM is vital
Yeah when I got my 14" I specced 32GB. Better to have it and not need it than the other way around
Are you saying that the device with less ram will absolutely stop working or that it won't be as fast as a device with more ram.
The latter. It will become so slow with future software demands and updates that you won't want to use it. Look at any older MacBook with 4GB RAM, you can't do anything with them anymore. Same thing will happen to 8GB machines in a few short years
Idk man I’ve made a living editing video off a 8gb MacBook Pro for 3 years now
I'm not saying it can't be done, but when those machines age a bit more they're going to be less useful than ones with more RAM.
Exactly, 9 out of 10 times, if somebody has to ask “should I buy a Pro?”, tell them they’ll be more than fine with an Air.
The exception here is in regards to future-proofing. If I know that I wanna hang on to a machine for many years, and will be installing Linux on it after MacOS support ends, then I am for sure boosting the RAM and maybe getting the better processor too. For me, it's more about reusability, and making sure I'm not low-balling the specs just to save a couple hundred bucks, cause some minor upgrades might add years of life to that machine.
I have a base, 8GB Mac mini. I keep it hooked to a monitor in my home office. I use it for MS Office, watch streaming services, do some VERY LIGHT Final Cut Pro, mess around online, play WoW at medium settings, etc. It works fine. I will replace it eventually. But I feel like if I wanted to do some more work on FCP or whatever? I'd want the 16GB memory. However, this mini was on sale at Best Buy for like $500. If I decide to upgrade later? I will still sell it for an OK amount and get the better version. Not everyone is looking to keep their computer for 10 years or wants to do the fancy stuff. So, in spirit, I agree with the OP. But I am right at the edge of the use case for this 8GB version, and if the 16GB was not something ridiculous more expensive, I'd get it.
I used to be a "Pro" user for my line of work. Now in a different line of work my personal MBA 16gb 250gb is sufficient for what I need even with some design and video editing I do for fun these days. I agree if you need to ask you don't need it. I was worried the MBA might not live up to my standard but it's been better than fine. My only gripe is my external monitor is meh with it.
I remember I’ve asked here, two years ago, for anyone having a M1 Max only one thing - how loud they are, if they are at all, before buying mine. Your post is totally understandable because we are being flooded with each of the Apple hardware updates - it was like that with M2, now it’s with M3, it would be like that with M4 and so on, and so on
It’s also possible that people just genuinely don’t know. MacBooks are an entirely different breed to other laptops, it makes sense for people to be confused, if they’re new to Mac. Regardless, no matter which model you choose, you should *always* upgrade to at least 16GB ram. 8GB just doesn’t cut it, anymore. I’d also get at least 512GB of storage, too, since 256GB is also not enough for computers, anymore.
YES 16GB should be minimum. I have 8GB of ram and it’s the bane of my existence
This one’s on Apple, tbh. It’s just greed. Let’s hope that the next batch of Mac computers start at 16GB. Because if not…
100% they charge so much to add extra too! Apple needs to get off their high horse
Honestly, the only upgrade I believe should have a significant additional cost to it is the chip itself. Like, if you upgrade from M3 to M3 Pro, to M3 Max, etc., because here, there’s a significant performance boost. But yeah, the ram and storage upgrades should cost less. I know they’ll never be truly cheap, because it’s Apple, but they still cost too much.
Yep! I used to be an Apple “fanboy” I had a Mac (still do unfortunately), Apple Watch, AirPods iPhone, now I’ve ditched everything except the phone and Mac, I also only have the Mac because my school doesn’t let us use windows.
I’d still consider myself to be an Apple fanboy. I’ve got the entire Apple ecosystem, and honestly, I’m happy with it. Happier than I ever was with Android. But that still doesn’t mean I won’t criticize Apple where criticism is due.
That’s honestly very fair. I must admit I’ll never leave the iPhone (I’m going to upgrade to the 16 pro) but i love my Bose headphones over the AirPods Pro, and I love the look of a classy watch that is also only 40 dollars so I don’t have to worry about it as much.
This is the definitive answer, if you have to ask “do I need?” The answer is definitely, probably, no.
Whatever you do, DO NOT BUY A MBP WITH 8GB OF RAM!!!! I made this STUPID mistake about a year ago and it is so painful to use. I’m a music producer for reference, I loaded in some stems for a remix and it used over half my available ram.
How on earth did you think 8gb of ram would work when music production software has been speccing 16gb for over a decade?
I bought it before I started seriously producing
It is unfortunate how many questions I see asked across subreddits focused on Apple products that reinforce the stereotype that Mac/Apple users have no idea how to use a computer.
I'd say that's a very popular opinion. If you don't know that you need more than 24GB of RAM or a Pro/Max CPU then an Air is more than likely plenty good enough.
The problem is not that an 8GB one is sufficient for most. The problem is that once you get an 8GB mac you arebstuck with it as it is not upgradable. This approach is pretty silly to be honest because I might not need 8GB now but who know what would happen 1 year down the line. This is the reason I always recommend to get the 16GB one to avoid having to buy a new laptop because you can't upgrade it.
100%
Snotty developer answers like this are what give the Apple/Mac culture a bad name.
I disagree, while it’s true th
I don't think you considered that pr
I think that's a fair point, but what ab
I’m an iOS Dev and I am thinking of getting a Macbook. My current one is Macbook Pro 2018 with Core i7. I know M series chips are faster but I don’t know if an MBA can handle my workload. But people are saying it can. How would I know without other’s opinion?
They’re more referring to creating a post asking the same question that has been answered 10 different times across 5 different subs
I'm developer, the m1 is very performant, in the past I used mba with i5 dual-core, is really slow to build ios project especially on unity, no problem with the m1.
An M3 MacBook Air with 16 or 24GB of RAM would be just fine to develop for iOS on.
One thing I'd recommend is getting a fairly large SSD, the iOS simulators take up a ton of space, and the base model airs are pretty stingy on space.
I got my first MacBook Pro back in 2010, when the regular MacBooks were plastic. I went with the MBP due in part to the build differences (aluminum vs. plastic), though in hindsight, those plastic ones looked cool and were pretty durable. I made the switch to the Air last year, and it has been a great decision so far. Great battery, great portability, and with more power than the Intel MBPs.
New users would benefit from buying an older Mac that can be worked on and souping it up - new SSD, more ram, and install an OS via OCLP. Check iFixit for difficulty factor on a used unit. I have a G4 PowerBook 5,7 (Panther) & 2008 MBP 5,1 (Mojave/dosdude1 High Sierra/Sonoma) both have new SSD and increased ram and are super fast for audio recording and running older Adobe programs. Limits the subscription services needed too.
I don't think new users would be up for all that upgrading and tinkering. Most will prefer something reliable and current enough that they don't have to mess much with.
Honestly, no one should really buy a pro. I really want one.
You can get a MacBook Air with the same ram and storage for cheaper. If the screen size doesn’t matter then I would get a Mac air
I mean... unless Apple were kinda caught off guard by LLMs and only the "pro" versions of the current lineup have the hardware to run them well. And no, not maliciously, just bad timing. So, if you want those "AI" features but otherwise are a casual user, and don't want to wait, then you should buy a Pro.
I bought a pro because I wanted the 16” screen and a HDMI port. Outside of that I don’t notice any big advantage to having it over the Air.
I wish I had more than 16GB of RAM. I also need more direct USB slots. I may get one now, but I really want to wait for the next one.
I just want more than 8GB of RAM. Worst purchase of MY LIFE!
Yeah 8g is just not good for a lot of people.
Apple has a new webpage to help folks select: [https://www.apple.com/mac/best-mac/](https://www.apple.com/mac/best-mac/) This link should be the response to every "what should I buy" post.
True story: I worked for Apple Retail for a few years. We’d get the occasional famous person in there. One day, a well-known sports announcer for ESPN comes in because the new MBP had released the day before. He said he always gets the new, top of the line model every year right when it comes out. He literally only wanted the most expensive one. This was back around 2010, when the 17” MBP was the top model with the anti-glare screen. Asking him if he needed it for video, photography, or worked a lot outdoors (no to all), I recommended the regular screen because it just has richer tones when consuming video. He wasn’t doing any content creation of any type, so I explained that the matte screen was really for color accuracy when editing images and such. Helps so color reflections don’t interfere. The antiglare was more expensive by $100, so I showed him the laptops side by side. His response, “Wow, you’re right! That one does look better …but this one is more expensive.” After a few minutes, guess what he went with! Paid in cash, obviously. 🙄
coming from a dev myself, there are plenty of professionals that could benefit from a pro model but not have a clue about computer specs.
The annoying part is if you want to use more than one external display then you're forced to go Pro.
What will settle this argument once and for all is going to be when Apple reveals what Apple Silicon macs are losing software support first. I imagine they can get away with deprecating the 8GB M1s at the same time as 16GB ones, but will they support M1 Pro for longer than M1? Exactly how many revisions more? If it is far enough in the future, they might get away with discontinuing base/pro/max & ultra chip variants of the same generation at the same time.
For Mac with Intel chip I think it was a legitimate question since the air was horrible but now I agree
I didn't know. So I bought the air. I then realised, unfortunately beyond the two weeks, that for some unknown reason, they've hamstrung it and that in 2024 you cannot natively run two screens on the MacBook Air...
Honestly, I got a pro as a hads me down from my dad. But I don't use it, I have a Windows for when i need actual stuff done, I use my MBP for school work, literally. MBA would've been just as fine for me. Though I must say, you don't always know how much you need. Sometimes you think you're fine with less cause that's all you have.
eh. what anyone should do is just watch performance comparison videos and be honest with themselves about what they have done, are doing, and likely will do with their machine. hobbies you have today may become different hobbies tomorrow that demand more from your system. I was able to get a MBP M3 pro 18gb ram/512gb ssd 14” on sale for 1700, just 200 more than the price of a comparably spec’d air. that’s a machine with better performance/active cooling, a slightly bigger screen, way more ports and a better display. no brainer. however, if I was forced to choose one or the other at full price, I’d likely go air. awesome form factor, the one area it clearly beats the MBP, other than price
If you’re keeping for a long amount of time and think your needs might change, go for 16/512, which comes standard with M2 Pro, a good recommendation. Though, if you just need an laptop, a base M1/M2 air will suffice.
I disagree a bit. While true I don’t have all the money in the world. I’ll usually do research before asking though
I went to buy an M2 air after my old model conked out, but Costco had a sale on for the M2 pro. Nice. Ended up spending ¥20000 less for more machine.
Do what I did. Learn about OPENCORE! My son and I each have 2014 15” MacBook Pro’s with i7 quads, 16gb of ram, 1TB drives. One of these I bought for $100 on FB Marketplace, the other I traded 3 hrs of chainsaw work for. With OPENCORE we are able to run the latest MacOS, for free. A group of engineers work on this project and send out updates a month or two after Apple releases their updates. The boot up time is 15-20 seconds slower as all the custom video and other hardware drivers load. Then it runs very snappy, as it was when brand new. I also have a 2012 13” MBPro (i5 duo, 8gb, 500gb) a work colleague gave me because the screen died. It wasn’t worth replacing because used 13” MBP with same specs were cheaper than even a used replacement screen at the time. I hung onto it anyway hoping I could score a screen somehow. About a year later my fellow Apple nerd buddy was given the exact same MBP that had a bad MotherBoard. We swapped the screens and he sold the machine with bad MoBo and bad screen on eBay for parts for $75. It now sits on my coffee table as a quick reference/online shopping tool. With OPENCORE, it too will run the latest MacOS, and is perfect for surfing and shopping. Yes, at some point Apple will stop supporting the Intel Macs, but they sold Intels as recently as 2022 I believe, and this year’s new OS out this fall (the beta is out and the OpenCore guys are already working on the upgrade, they guess it will be fall, I bet Oct to Nov.) These MBP will be usable for 5-6 more years!
I’m a pretty hard-core user, but in the end the only thing that taxes my computer is converting MKV format anime files into MP4 so I can work with them more easily, or possibly outputting a short video for YouTube. If I did a lot more of the ladder I would need a pro machine, but my MacBook Air is generally fine.
Apple silicon Macs are so powerful that most people don’t need the pro. I’m someone who thought I needed a pro and got the 14” M1 Pro but I could do the same work with an M2 air. But 120Hz is a must for me and I needed an hdmi port
Fully agree with a caveat. I'm a graphic designer and I use a 16" M2 MBP, and she's a hell of a machine. Still, when I look at how thin and light my husband's 13" MacBook Air is... dang, that thing is sexy. If it didn't mean losing the XDR display, I'd really consider downgrading to an Air. Adobe CC is obnoxiously single-core anyway, and I suspect I wouldn't notice a huge performance difference. Could be wrong.
Just get what you really want. If you have MacBook Air money at the moment but you really deep down want that Pro, don’t settle for the Air get the one you actually want even if it means saving up a bit longer. When I got my first MacBook back in college back in 2015 my heart wanted the Pro because I loved everything about it but at the time I only had Air money so I settled and got the Air and every time I used it I wasn’t happy because I knew I should have waited and got the Pro. There is nothing wrong with wanting the top of the line machine with the best screen, speakers, etc just because you simply want it. Nothing wrong with that and always get the thing you actually wanted. Don’t settle at all.
A better question is just “do you need an HDMI port”
you can pull my oled screen out of my cold dead hands, lol. the new pro is the nicest strongest most beautiful computing device I've ever used. My use case is for business so prob could have gotten away with the new air but pro-motion, oled and face ID were what put me over. I have those specs on my years old iPhone 13 pro so to buy a new iPad air with lower specs just didn't work for me. Granted, I'm paying for that luxury but I plan to have this device for 10 years so...
Always buy pro.
You got points but Pro machine is not only for Pro user. I’m using a MacBook Pro 16” for media consumption because it has gorgeous screen and awesome speakers and I think its perfectly fine.
kid named Air 15"
I mean you’ve entirely missed the point of this post and are really agreeing with it but ok. No, you do not need pro, you just said it yourself. Just because you can afford it, doesn’t mean you need it. It really is not for you, it’s not made for watching movies. I don’t think anyone cares about you or anyone else wasting their money on excessive purchases, but this is in regards to people on the cusp and looking at the money to see what is the most sensible/most gained value for them, they definitely should not be getting pro in that scenario. You buying pro when you really didn’t need it doesn’t really matter. Much like I cringed when some family members bought macbook pros and ipad pros for their uni courses that really didn’t need them… one of them broke both, cannot afford to replace or fix, the other doesn’t even use the ipad, it’s basically brand new. Great investment.
Disagree! In my case I came over from Windows and never had an Apple device before in my life. I too couldn't decide between Air vs Pro, 16 GB RAM vs 32 GB RAM. Came across a lot of posts sharing the same sentiment you have which just isn't helpful. Did my own due diligence and ended up with M1 Pro and 32 GB RAM and don't regret my choice in the slightest :)
Counterpoint, who cares, sounds like you need to get a hobby
I would never recommend that anyone not totally tech savvy use a Mac with an external drive. Most folks don't know how to do it and just assume it's going to be automagic when it's really not. Macs like it when you store things in their proper user folders and edit video off the internal drive. Didn't used to be that way, but it is now with the M series and their fiber connection to the SoC.
Real professionals don't have time to also be IT experts.