Does the family of Taib Mahmud's Syrian wife who all got bumi rights all speak great Malay? How about that Arabic guy (son of Raagad and some **other** guy, not Taib) that was burning ringgit notes to light his cigars?
How about the carrabat dhirajin married to Swedish and the other one married to Scorpene French? Do their beloveds all speak fluent Malay when they got their passport?
Imigresn got no other problems isit? Like that 2 billion corruption case? All solved?
Witnessed it first hand at the Bangi branch. Immigration officer said if her daughter does not speak BM, she will not renew her passport. This was about a month after the initial case.
Power trip.
You stupid? We are talking about âMalaysian Societyâ here not just âSocietyâ
Mybe you are one of the indon is it? Have small percentage of reading population
Malaysian society is our 3 original races and not Malay language society. You born stupid or did the nurses drop you?
Lmao what does "have small percentage of reading population" even mean? You bang your head on the keyboard and just use autocorrect to form sentences or what?
Aahh mb, should be
âSmall percentage of indon population actual readsâ, sry its 3 AM so yeah.
Anyway, society and law are interconnected closely. Law reflects the norms and expectations of the society. While society influence the law (not directly of course).
You cannot build a law based on the minority but it can be build around the majority (ah yes democracy).
My point is, Malaysia (which literally means Malayâs land) build around the majority of the population which of course, the malay.
I am not trying to be racist but, yeahh. The government want foreigners to know all Malaysian can speak malay but hey! Here the special, our people can talk chinese too! Tadaaa this is malaysia, the country with multiple culture.
Also, malay literally the official language of Malaysia, are you really Malaysian if you cant speak Malay?
When you are not probably Malaysian, this can post multiple problem by which immigration officer can actually detain you for possibly having fake ic/passport.
But he/she didnt is it? The officer alrdy gave chance to prove you are malaysian, and yet they complain in chinese. Smh
Yeah that's why we have Bumiputera benefits etc but the fact is that it is not in our rules/regulations that the immigration officers have the right to deny passport applicants if they can't speak Bahasa Malaysia. If it is, then yes, there is nothing to complain about but the issue now is that some low rank front desk immigration officer is going beyond his authority, get it?
Dear racist, an inconvenient fact is that in 1957 census, Malays make up only 49.8% of the population. 49.8% is as unfortunately not majority of the population.
Reading this has made me wonder: how many people can speak Malay?Â
Like, that's a daily use language used everywhere in Malaysia. How do they function in society without speaking either Malay or English? Or do they just can't read and write, in this modern age of accessible information?
Not being able to speak a language everyone uses is like being blind and trying to communicate via sign language.
99% of Malaysians become citizens via birth from their Malaysian parents. That is enshrined in our constitution. This is a right every Malaysian parents have. Proficiency in BM is never a requirement.
Let me ask you this. When you were born, were you proficient in BM? Obviously youâre not - how can a baby speak any languages? So youâre saying you werenât a citizen then?
Questioning their citizenship is akin to questioning your own citizenship. You became a citizen through the same process as they did.
Foreigners becoming Malaysians are via naturalization. Different process.
Donât mix up the two
why dont we cut the crap and just say whats on the table. the contention is on malay language proficiency. the officer rejected based on that factor and you disagree. hence my comment, if a foreigner cant speak malay, would you allow them to become malaysia citizen?
Your logic got problem. You probably the type of person that prone feel good swinging your mono-god-like-language in kampung. Born with citizenship and applying citizenship are covered by different than law. You don't have brain to comprehend that?
What cut the crap? You werenât proficient in BM originally. Why did you become a citizen? Also, passport renewal does not need BM proficiency.
Also, Malay proficiency is never a requirement for citizens by birth. Malay proficiency is required for naturalisation. This is literally part of citizenship law. I state facts and you say cut the crap. LOL.
Which part are you not getting? You realise thereâs multiple pathways to citizenship?
ive stated foreigner twice and you shifted the post by stating citizen by birth and you refused to answer the question at hand. what a straw man fallacy, my question is for a foreigner and you brought argument that at birth one doesnt know BM so BM doesnt matter. lol. so for the third time, if a foreigner does not know BM, would you allow them to become malaysian citizen ?
Who is the foreigner here?
Itâs not whether I allow or not. You stupid or what? If a foreigner canât speak BM, the foreigner canât be a citizen. Thatâs part of naturalization requirement. I already answered what you asked, yet you donât seem to understand.
I canât believe how stupid you are.
im asking your personal opinion, of course its the immigration power to allow or not. naturalization citizen law does required BM proficiency but im asking your personal opinion whether or not you agree with that requirement. hope this clear things up since you ve been calling me stupid. probably my fault not stating my question clearly.
My personal opinion is the same as our law. The benefit of every citizens to pass down their citizenship to their child is a right that all of us have benefitted from. No questions about it.
Foreigners via naturalization is a different thing, but as ive said, i agree with whatever the law is .
I dont give a shit about foreigners applying for citizenship. We are talking about a citizen that was denied her fundamental rights. There is no law nor precedent for the clownshow the officer came up with on the spot. Disgraceful.Â
Since no one will answer your leading question, I will: Yes, the foreigner applying for Malaysian citizenship will need to be able to speak BM.
Will you answer my own leading questions, next? If a Malaysian citizen cannot speak BM, are you advocating to strip them of their citizenship? Even if they might not have had a choice in the manner (e.g: as in the case of this aunty, who was forced to drop out of school)?
You know that you're asking your question with an agenda in mind. So maybe it's better to state your agenda out in the open, no need to beat around the bush. Go on.
"I'm not stuck with you.... you are stuck with me!!!"
- Project IC, because arming foreign muslims to overthrow your own government sounds like a good idea at the time...
You can permanently âkeluarâ from this country by denouncing your malaysia citizenship and try request for other country to accept you.
But really, what country will accept you eh? Mybe north korea will, at least you will be smartest there
https://youtu.be/VFAviU2NfEg?si=KMFY274i81DtulSu
if royalty tak bleh cakap macam ne... xp
it's a good laugh...fyi my grand mother from KT literally cried hearing this disgrace from Gannu
Poverty and lack of education is common for those older generations that are now in the late 60s and over. Especially females during that era have the lowest education due to gender inequality. Most of them just have basic primary school education or never attended.
As age progresses this elderly having problems understanding their own spoken language due to getting senile and age deteriorate.
If you think that they stay in Malaysia for decades they must know Bahasa Malaysia, what initiatives or programs did the government run to encourage or educate those elderly that did not have formal education.
Politicians are pushing Bahasa Malaysia agendas while sending their children to International school. If the MP and their children are to take the current SPM BM confirm a lot of them will fail the subject.
True, I know someone's dad who is a lawyer, speak good BM but a few years ago have stroke and affected his speech and language. He is Indian and can speak fluent BM, English, and Tamil, Chinese abit-abit.
He completely forgotten how to speak any language beside Chinese for some reason, he use to learn abit of Chinese during his youth and can speak basic Chinese which is enough for daily conversation.
Wonder if someone is "less Malaysian" because they cannot speak or understand due to health issue.
This usually comes with what is it called, the doctor warrant of smth? Sry cant remember.
But yeah, you can just show it to the officer and its gnna be all right
It is odd for someone who lives in Malaysia for so long unable to speak Malay though. For as long as she lived here has she not interacted with other races?
Foreign workers can speak basic Malay while working here for a couple of months without ever needing to go to classes but this lady can't even speak any Malay assuming she's here for her whole entire life.
Why would it be odd if they live their whole life often isolated and minimal interaction with society.
Especially housewives, their life only involve family with minimal interaction with society. They will be always be accompanied by their husband or grown-up children, who they can relied on to translate and make decision on their behalves.
Also aging, it's a scientifically proven that human brain start to deteriorate and shrink starting in their 60s and progress worst as they age. Age-associated memory impairment make it hard like learning new things, remembering, focus, repeating same words or struggle with technology.
Lets compare with younger Malaysian student with 11 years of education, Mental capability and capacity of everyone is different, that's why some get perfect grade while some fail near all subjects.
SPM 2023, 24,304 candidates failed Islamic Education, should we assume they are not Muslim even when they spend their whole life as Muslim?
Those Malay student fail their Bahasa Malaysia, does it mean they never interact with society?
The foreign workers employment agencies often provide basic language training, those work in group will get help with translation by other workers from their same country and they get to practice daily due to requirement of work. Generally age group of foreign workers are young adults that have no problem learning.
Welp, the son didnât do any favours by complaining it in Chinese character writing so only specific people can read them ..
I wanna help but how la to understand? Other races also canât help if thy donât understand.. good luck to the mother in the interview I guess..
Indeed, huge mistake, and it won't get any traction because he blew it for his chances to actually challenge the immigration department at a wider audience.
If you want the majority to read your complaint, use the right medium. The trajectory of the development will be very different if he produces a constructive argument in Bahasa Malaysia and humbly pointing out her mother didn't have the luxury to graduate/for education back in the days, or lack of practice due to old age.
He went for this route.
Must be from Private Cina School. Those people there only see themselves as Chinese who so happen to live in Malaysia. Even my hawker in-laws can speak enough Malay to renew passport, get things done in Majlis Bandaraya and PDRM - the highest qualification among them is SAP.
Instead of trying to help the woman, they instead âbanâ her from accessing important services. Itâs not racist per say, but itâs definitely inappropriate.
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fuck all this bitches...
I am gonna renew my passport soon....and will record it while I speak full England on their ass while replying their BM of course...
the I will just say, you are telling our Malaysian Gomen educatuonsoshit you can't speak or understandENGLAND... HAHAHA
ps I am Sk SMK true and true.
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i am one of those person that advocates for good malay usage for all malaysian citizens. if you re younger than 60 and not struggling with life you should be fucking ashamed if you cant speak malay somewhat fluently.
that said. the immigration officer is overstepping the line by a huge lot. this case should be reviewed and action should be taken.
nah man. you may disagree as much as you like. but if you cant speak malay as a malaysian you're a fucking disgrace. that is one statement. another statement is that the officer abused their power. whether or not my statement led to the officer abusing their power is irrelevant.
both statements are simply true.
or if going by your logic. if i say people should not use phones while driving, a policeman finds a person using the phone, goes ahead snatches their phone, spits on them, shoots them in the head. then runs away. so my statement led to all that abuse of power? thats an individual abuse of power.
or should we just all just stfu coz everything we say leads to something bad happening.
And what, in your opinion, is the utility of learning and using BM? Merely to converse with civil servants? The private sectorâs de facto language is English. The cream of Academia and industry? All English. What exactly is so disgraceful about not practicing a language that offers so little utility?
I suspect your answer lies more along the lines of âit being the national languageâ and that is what the person youâre replying to is getting at. Patriotism is loving your country and wanting whatâs best for it. Nationalism is ignoring its flaws for the blind belief that oneâs country is the best.
As recent as 30 years ago, the average Malaysian could be expected to speak the same, if not better, English than your average Singaporean. Think about what weâve thrown away in the name of race politics. And for what? Our national identity is not tied to a language.
The arguments presented against learning and using BM overlooks several important aspects that emphasize the significance and value of the language beyond mere utility:
Preservation of Cultural Identity: Language is not just a tool for communication; it embodies the culture, history, and identity of a nation. Bahasa is not merely a means of conversing with civil servants; it is a cornerstone of Malaysian identity. By neglecting BM, we risk eroding an essential part of our cultural heritage.
National Unity and Social Cohesion: A common language fosters unity among diverse communities within a nation. Malaysia is a multilingual and multicultural country, and BM serves as a unifying force that promotes social cohesion and understanding among its people.
Empowerment of Local Communities: Emphasizing BM empowers local communities and ensures equitable access to education, employment, and governance for all Malaysians. Neglecting the national language could perpetuate disparities and marginalize those who are less proficient in English.
Respect for Diversity: Patriotism involves embracing and celebrating the diversity within a nation, including its linguistic diversity. Upholding BM alongside English demonstrates a commitment to inclusivity and respect for all Malaysians, regardless of their linguistic background.
Historical Context and Political Significance: Language policies in Malaysia have historical and political implications. The evolution of language policies reflects the country's journey towards nation-building and the quest for a shared national identity that transcends racial divisions.
Global Relevance of Multilingualism: In a globalized world, multilingualism is an asset. Proficiency in BM enriches individuals with a deeper understanding of their own culture and enhances their ability to engage globally with a distinct Malaysian perspective.
Balanced Bilingualism: The value of English proficiency should not undermine the importance of BM. Both languages can coexist harmoniously, complementing each other to equip Malaysians with versatile communication skills suitable for various contexts.
In summary, dismissing the importance of BM based solely on its perceived utility overlooks its broader significance in shaping Malaysian society, fostering unity, and preserving cultural heritage. Patriotism, in this context, is not about blind nationalism but rather a genuine commitment to nurturing a strong, inclusive national identity that embraces linguistic diversity while advocating for the collective well-being and empowerment of all Malaysians.
Sigh. So much silly nationalism.
Would you say Americans have a strong national identity? I would. They donât have a national language. Sure, speaking a single language would increase cohesion, but at what cost? Discarding an existing international advantage in the name of national unity is throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
All those thing youâve mentioned are fluff. Cultural heritage? English was a cultural heritage from our colonial days. Social cohesion? I can think of a couple things making more of a difference than BM proficiency. Respect for diversity? Ok now youâre having a laugh.
Hereâs the truth: the switch to Malay as language of instruction came about because teachers werenât able to teach in English. Our policy of scraping the bottom of the barrel for teachers and then making them un-fireable started producing the sort of shit results you might expect. Instead of fixing the problem, they moved the goalposts. Everything else youâve stated is just the stupid story theyâve sold you to cover for their mistakes.
America is one of the most laughable countries that comes to mind when it comes to nationalism. English is technically the national language but there are many who choose to ignore it and just speak tongue.
Its one of the least united countries out there tbh.
Why do you look at america? Look at japan. Look at thai land. You speak japan anywhere in japan, people will understand you. You speak thai anywhere in thailand people understand you.
Go malaysia? Saya tak pandai cakap bm.
Fucking disgrace.
You can give 1001 excuses but that is all that it is. An excuse not to learn bm.
If you want a reason why many malays dislike nons, the sheer arrogance of not wanting to learn bm is one of them. Language breeds unity.
> English is technically the national language
Nope. The US does not have a national language. Very easily verified.
The reason some Malays dislike nons is the same reason some nons dislike Malays: Racism. If you wanna justify your racism with dumb shit like what language people are raised learning, feel free. Doesnât make you less racist, though.
Lol you can deny and defend yourself as much as you want. You may be right on america. You may even be right about racism. But choosing to ignore importance of national language is what you re actively doing. We ll not change each others mind. Good day
Your arguments against emphasizing Bahasa and promoting national unity through language cohesion overlooks several key points and misrepresents the broader context:
Misconception about National Identity: Comparing Malaysia to the United States regarding national identity overlooks the unique historical and cultural contexts of each country. The absence of a formal national language in the United States does not negate the significance of language in shaping identity and social cohesion. Countries vary in how they cultivate and express national identity, and language can play a crucial role in this process. America is not a Caucasian countries hence why even they cannot force everyone to speak English!Â
Global Advantage vs. National Unity: The argument suggests that prioritizing English proficiency over BM preserves an international advantage. However, this perspective neglects the importance of fostering internal cohesion within a diverse nation. A shared language can strengthen bonds among citizens and facilitate inclusive national discourse, which ultimately contributes to a stronger and more resilient society. They are many models of successful nations which prioritize their own national language over the English language (Thailand, Japan, China, Germany yet other countries still want to invest and work with them etc not using English as yardstick is really poor argument for not having global advantage)
English may have been inherited from colonial times, but Bahasa Malaysia represents Malaysia's unique cultural heritage and national identity. Language is not merely a utilitarian tool but a repository of shared history, values, and traditions. Upholding BM acknowledges and celebrates Malaysia's distinct cultural identity especially that of the people it represent in the very word Malay-sia. The Malays sacrificed their lands and its wealth; willing to share it when bargaining for independence. Saying we don't need it anymore is an insult to the people that have work hard to defend this country even before we were born.
Even in Singapore where the Malays are minority nowadays, the bahasa is still respected and learned by their pm as a mean to honor the natives malays there.
https://www.ehm.my/publications/articles/malayan-independence-malay-inequality-and-the-bargain
Social Cohesion and Diversity: Proficiency in BM contributes to social cohesion by promoting inclusive communication and understanding across diverse communities. Language serves as a bridge that fosters empathy, cooperation, and mutual respect among Malaysians of different backgrounds. Dismissing BM as irrelevant to diversity undermines the importance of linguistic inclusivity in multicultural societies. A non that can spoke bahasa well will always be treated and respected way better than those who dont.
While challenges in education policy and teacher quality exist, attributing the shift to BM instruction solely to teacher incompetence oversimplifies a complex issue. Language policy decisions often consider multiple factors, including accessibility, inclusivity, and pedagogical effectiveness. Enhancing teacher quality and addressing systemic issues should be priorities independent of language policy.
Reframing the Narrative: Rather than viewing language policy changes as a cover-up for educational shortcomings, it is essential to recognize the multifaceted benefits of promoting BM alongside English. This approach acknowledges the intrinsic value of BM in nurturing a strong national identity and promoting social equity rather than using conspiracy theory to make your point.
To conclude, dismissing the significance of Bahasa Malaysia and downplaying the role of language in shaping national identity and unity oversimplifies a complex issue. Embracing BM alongside English reflects a commitment to inclusive nation-building and cultural preservation, fostering a stronger sense of community and shared destiny among all Malaysians
Because the Immigration officer is blatantly racist? Malay proficiency is not a requirement to renew your passport and English is widely spoken in this country unlike the countries you mentioned (Except for India maybe)
https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2023/12/986340/saifuddin-defends-bahasa-malaysia-proficiency-requirement-passport
He is the home minister. Immigration is under him.
Proficiency in BM is not a requirement. The argument by HM is that it was suspicious she did not know Malay, thus maybe she isnât a citizen. The proficiency test was merely a method to test her citizenship, but not a requirement
Yes. In previous case I had explained this before. Before the hm even spoke about it.
My point is, the immigration action has nothing to do with being racist.
At the same time, I find the argument weak. This is a passport renewal. If officers were suspicious that the kid is not citizen, donât you think thatâs a bigger problem? How can a non citizen possess a passport prior?
The fact the officer did nothing and asked them to return the next day says a lot. Itâs power tripping. Nothing to do with citizenship testing, at least in this case.
So yes, this case for me is simply power tripping. Racism probably. I donât know.
For that case, the immigration officer gave the applicant a chance to go back and come again on a later day bring along any document that can prove the child status.
Mind you, being detained by immigration is way worse than being detained by police. You prefer the mom and child go through that?
Itâs just the mum by the way. The fact she has a valid IC and a valid albeit expired passport is a proof she is a citizen by the way. Thereâs another way via proof of birth certificate (though it doesnât necessarily mean a citizenship though).
I donât know what else you want to do. You asked proof if she is a citizen, and she showed you her documents. What else you want her to do?
Then again, Iâm not surprised you think this way. Youâre the same guy who thinks a student who says government universities treating Bumiputera with priority is not racist and is normal in other countries.
>"Saya tidak pernah sebut bahasa Melayu menjadi syarat untuk dapatkan pasport.
https://www.hmetro.com.my/mutakhir/2023/12/1038201/penguasaan-bahasa-melayu-lfl-tak-perlu-putar-belit-isu-saifuddin
Aik, yang mane nih??? ÂŻ\\\_(ă)_/ÂŻ
"Raises suspicious"? Is she or is she not a Malaysian citizen? If she can prove she's a Malaysian citizen and that she is who she says she is (i.e: present IC, check thumbprint), what else is there to "be suspicious" about?
That she cut off her own finger and grafted on someone else's onto her hand? That makcik is part of an elite cyber hacking group that have found out a way to bypass IC fingerprint check?
Which one is more likely? One of the above scenarios? Or that makcik just never had the opportunity to go to school, something that she has no control over?
I agree that Malaysians should be fluent in BM - but let's not kid ourselves, this is just power-tripping.
If you are referring to the previous case, it was not the mom's status that was in questioned. The child was unable to answer who is even her father's name. The mother claimed she was devorced and got custody of the child. The immigration officer wanted to see the custody document.
As there was cases of forged mykid/mykad cases, the immigration officer wanted to make sure the relationship between the 2.
So, the child cant speak BM, dont know the name of her father, have no document to prove the applicant was really her mom.
Even a non immigration officer would be a bit suspicious in that kind of sitiation. If the child was actually kidnapped and a victim of trafficking, who would take responsibility, you?
Dude, this is the problem with people like you. Dont know the full story, just bit and pieces and then straight make wrong conclusion just because it involves BM.
... What? I'm referring to the case in this very Reddit post. Hence "makcik". "People like \[me\]" lagi ... 
The case is very cut and dry for this makcik. She has an IC. If the IC is valid and she can prove that she is the person the IC was issued for, it's case closed. "Not knowing BM" is not a valid reason for suspicion, unless they can explain exactly what they're suspicious ***of***.
You do realize this is just a story from 1 side? Should wait for the other party to give their side also. Maybe there are other information that the story teller failed to mention.
But based on this story alone, the officer already tried to be very lenient. Only asked to count from 1 to 10. Or even asked what calendar is in BM. This is no longer proficiency. If cant answer that means cant speak BM at all. You have stayed in this country for so many years, at least can understand and speak even a little tiny bit of BM. If cant speak at all, yes, it does raise suspicious.
Again, nobody can come up with a good explanation of what they're suspicious ***of***. Can she prove she's a Malaysian citizen via a simple, objective system that we've been using for decades at this point (ICs)? If so, what is there to be suspicious ***of***?
Who cares if makcik can count to 10 or tell us who was her favourite on Akademi Fantasia - neither of these things are requirements for a Malaysian citizen to apply for a passport. Maybe makcik has never left her little chinese kampung. Maybe makcik has a learning disability. Maybe makcik is growing senile.
Or maybe, just maybe, makcik dropped out of school and never had a chance to properly learn the language (which, you know, is explained in the article).
I call bluff here, especially for China and India, which are multi-lingual countries. Show us the rulings which state that getting passports in those 4 countries you mentioned require language proficiency.
For China, there is a large number of poorly educated people who either speak their own dialect and speak Mandarin with a very heavy local accent. As for India, there are many other languages besides Hindi, English and Tamil, and there are many in the south who just get by with their local language(e.g Tamil) and English. Thus, for these 2 countries, it is practically impossible to set nation-wide language requirements for passports.
If language proficiency is really a requirement for passports, it would have been stated, along with other things such as ic, photos etc. Furthermore, there would also be at least a set of standard questions to test fluency. The fact that it does not exist means that the officer is power-tripping.
A passport isn't like an ID card, its not owned by you, its the property of the Malaysian government. They can deny / approve the passport for a variety of reasons.
Oh really? Including made up nationalistic bullshit? And is it the official policy of the Malaysian government not to issue passports to people that donât speak the way the minimum wage clerks deem acceptable?
They don't have to give any reason for deny a passport, because if you read the passport itself it says its the property of the Malaysian state. its not yours.
Its not like an ID card, an ID card they have to give it to you, whether or not you speak Malay or not.
Yes bro, you can go to china and your passport will be yours man, not like its controlled or owned by the government there
Also, if u can go to britain, deym your name also had âissued by the royalty familyâ
The fact you can talk like shit here means My still had freedom of speech, whatever its a good speech or⌠you.
Iâm sorry but this reasoning sounds ridiculous. The passport is an ID card but for when youâre travelling outside the borders of your birth place. How can someone just deny your right to travel outside of the country for an arbitrary reason?
Geez idk, mybe the whole world government? You can go born at USA and speak malay there of course reject punya.
You born at china speak Malay, of course rejected.
Someone introvert af and doest even involve in any real world interaction smh
Er no. US government offices literally provide translations and sometimes even in-office interpreters at no cost, because they actually care about diversity. [DMV](https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/customer-service/interpreter-services/). [Passport office](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/get-fast/passport-agencies/san-francisco.html) (right column has [flyers like this](https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/passports/content-page-resources/Adult%20Passport%20Card%20Rack-Mandarin%20Chinese.pdf))
Real world interaction sure is important.
You believe on that? Yeah sure. Mybe this post wont happen if this is true:
[Requirement to have Malaysian Passport](https://www.imi.gov.my/index.php/en/main-services/passport/malaysian-international-passport/)
Maybe use your last line as an act of practicality
Read the content in the link. Now read it again. Show us where in the world does it say that you need to know the Malay language in order to be eligible for a passport.
It literally states it right there that the only eligibility is to be Malaysian. Which they can check by asking us to show proof of our IC.
Youâre arguing for the sake of having an argument. If you want to act as if youâre right, the least you could do is fact check your own statement
Your father teach you that immigration officers have such authority? Their job is to just stamp according to the regulations provided by our government. And I'm very sure that it does not say that passports can't be granted if we can't speak Bahasa Melayu. I hope these front desk officers don't start hallucinating and think that they can create regulations like they're the ketua kampung or some shit
Since when the immigration desk officers have such authority? Last I remembered, our country has regulations and approvals/denials are based on certain guidelines, not at the whims of the front desk officers who are on a power trip
In a way I understand. If something happens overseas and they want you to prove youâre a malaysian, they might ask you to speak the mother tongue. Actually, hasnât this already happened before?
What are you on about? Your proof that youâre a Malaysian comes from the passport that says youâre Malaysian. The scenario you are suggesting is laughably implausible and would never happen
My dude. There are probably thousands to millions of people travelling around the world illegally with fake passports. People really do ask you questions about your home country if they find you to be suspicious enough. Source: Myself. Went to turkey. Immigration asked me where i was from and stuff
Fake passport cases in malaysia:
https://www.imi.gov.my/index.php/en/keratan-akhbar/fake-passport-syndicate-busted-3-held/
https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2024/02/15/immigration-nabs-masterminds-of-2-fake-passport-syndicates/
https://issuu.com/wildlifejustice/docs/wjc_bringing_down_the_dragon_report_february_2022_/s/14708807
https://www.malaymail.com/amp/news/malaysia/2023/12/05/johor-immigration-dept-busts-fake-passport-syndicate-malaysian-mastermind-arrested/105908
https://amp.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/3246694/singapore-jails-man-20-weeks-over-use-fake-malaysian-passport
https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2024/03/27/two-nabbed-in-jb-over-fake-passport-stamps
You are conflating several issues. Literally nobody is going to use a test that any migrant worker could pass to verify your nationality. If the authenticity of your document is in question, they will contact the Malaysian government and attempt to verify your identity through official channels, not by giving you a pop quiz on Malay vocab.
I mean do you really think they caught any of the people in the articles you listed by asking them to spit some Malay bars? LOL
Sometimes fake passports are so good they can get into a country easily, which is the point of the articles i have listed. Immigration officers will always ask you questions and it can literally be about anything to find out if youâre suspicious or not. Itâs quite literally part of their job. Like i said, millions of people travel around the world illegally with a fake passport. It would be so easy for people to enter a country illegally if people just look at their passports and say looks legit enough you can pass
What does that have to do with speaking Malay?
Dude what do you think the little computers that all immigration officers have do? They ask you questions to determine if you warrant deeper inspection, yes. They verify by using internationally linked databases. You really have no idea what youâre talking about.
The questions can literally be anything. They verify after they determine whether or not you need a deeper inspection right? Thereâs always a possibility. Iâm not saying that it will 100% happen but itâs not impossible. Why wouldnât a question about can you speak your mother tongue be relevant in this case?
You think a random immigration officer overseas is going to speak enough Malay to tell if youâre a native speaker? I think youâve smoked enough, buddy.
I understand it brother.
I understand it so much that its impossible to make it with the current world politics
In the technical terms, yes it is possible.
For the pros, uhhh only for you i guess
For the cons, let me tell you bro. Price. The level of agreement of data. Who in the right mind would share their own citizen data to the other country?. The current technology is not advanced as you think thus you are imagining a movie.
But tbh, i would like that to happen. It means we all can reach mutual agreement
Your example is plain dumb. You think the immigration officer in a foreign country is going to test us in Bahasa? What if the next person he wants to test is from Nigeria? Does he have to know a hundred different languages so he could test anyone he is suspicious of? They'll more likely contact our embassy or something if they find us suspicious. Your long list of examples of fake passport articles is just a waste of bandwidth at this point
You are repeating statements
If you are japanese, of course people expect you to speak japanese thus passport can be granted
But if you had japanese passport but speak only indian and not a little bit japanese, they will port you to india la of course.
Honesty, this world oxygen wasted on you for whatever your birthday on
Sm
LOL write that barely coherent drivel and then talk about wastes of oxygen. Please leave your kampung and go meet some more people k? You might even learn why everything you just said is so stupid.
Stop making yourself look like an idiot. They don't send people to whichever country of the language they speak LMAO!! Does that even make sense?!??
They'll contact our embassy la HAHHAHAH My goodness, how stupid can someone be
Post removed as the FB user has deleted his post.
Does the family of Taib Mahmud's Syrian wife who all got bumi rights all speak great Malay? How about that Arabic guy (son of Raagad and some **other** guy, not Taib) that was burning ringgit notes to light his cigars? How about the carrabat dhirajin married to Swedish and the other one married to Scorpene French? Do their beloveds all speak fluent Malay when they got their passport? Imigresn got no other problems isit? Like that 2 billion corruption case? All solved?
You are expecting them to do anything beyond shoving paperwork and learning how to use the rubber stamp? Please lah đ
They speak fluent $$$
The difference is: https://preview.redd.it/ypyy0whnd2wc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=537ea06e972382f0292c305595ed1f4285158b18
https://preview.redd.it/93jrzbfrd2wc1.jpeg?width=686&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f4c6e4c1f4ba0913903b7904eb30640e45137cc
why speak BM when money is the universal language that everyone understands? /s
Easy answer https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/2022/06/18/dont-question-sarawak-on-the-use-of-english-as-official-language-says-state-premier/12974
Witnessed it first hand at the Bangi branch. Immigration officer said if her daughter does not speak BM, she will not renew her passport. This was about a month after the initial case. Power trip.
That's sad. It's people like that who prevent malaysian society from making progress.
Malaysian society? What malaysian society if one cannot speak malay
You stupid? We can't have a society just because we can't speak Malay?
You stupid? We are talking about âMalaysian Societyâ here not just âSocietyâ Mybe you are one of the indon is it? Have small percentage of reading population
Malaysian society is our 3 original races and not Malay language society. You born stupid or did the nurses drop you? Lmao what does "have small percentage of reading population" even mean? You bang your head on the keyboard and just use autocorrect to form sentences or what?
Aahh mb, should be âSmall percentage of indon population actual readsâ, sry its 3 AM so yeah. Anyway, society and law are interconnected closely. Law reflects the norms and expectations of the society. While society influence the law (not directly of course). You cannot build a law based on the minority but it can be build around the majority (ah yes democracy). My point is, Malaysia (which literally means Malayâs land) build around the majority of the population which of course, the malay. I am not trying to be racist but, yeahh. The government want foreigners to know all Malaysian can speak malay but hey! Here the special, our people can talk chinese too! Tadaaa this is malaysia, the country with multiple culture. Also, malay literally the official language of Malaysia, are you really Malaysian if you cant speak Malay? When you are not probably Malaysian, this can post multiple problem by which immigration officer can actually detain you for possibly having fake ic/passport. But he/she didnt is it? The officer alrdy gave chance to prove you are malaysian, and yet they complain in chinese. Smh
Yeah that's why we have Bumiputera benefits etc but the fact is that it is not in our rules/regulations that the immigration officers have the right to deny passport applicants if they can't speak Bahasa Malaysia. If it is, then yes, there is nothing to complain about but the issue now is that some low rank front desk immigration officer is going beyond his authority, get it?
Dear racist, an inconvenient fact is that in 1957 census, Malays make up only 49.8% of the population. 49.8% is as unfortunately not majority of the population.
This here. One example of a problematic individual.
Fuck them. No such law.
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Protest this bs by this gov dept.
You sure about that? https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2023/12/986340/saifuddin-defends-bahasa-malaysia-proficiency-requirement-passport
Reading this has made me wonder: how many people can speak Malay? Like, that's a daily use language used everywhere in Malaysia. How do they function in society without speaking either Malay or English? Or do they just can't read and write, in this modern age of accessible information? Not being able to speak a language everyone uses is like being blind and trying to communicate via sign language.
Show me the law? The article didn't say which law it is. Why are people FORCING BM on others?
Should have made a report on the matter.
so you re saying if foreigner apply malaysian citizenship, they dont need to speak malay?
reading comprehension kindergarten
This one clearly doesn't speak english.
99% of Malaysians become citizens via birth from their Malaysian parents. That is enshrined in our constitution. This is a right every Malaysian parents have. Proficiency in BM is never a requirement. Let me ask you this. When you were born, were you proficient in BM? Obviously youâre not - how can a baby speak any languages? So youâre saying you werenât a citizen then? Questioning their citizenship is akin to questioning your own citizenship. You became a citizen through the same process as they did. Foreigners becoming Malaysians are via naturalization. Different process. Donât mix up the two
why dont we cut the crap and just say whats on the table. the contention is on malay language proficiency. the officer rejected based on that factor and you disagree. hence my comment, if a foreigner cant speak malay, would you allow them to become malaysia citizen?
Your logic got problem. You probably the type of person that prone feel good swinging your mono-god-like-language in kampung. Born with citizenship and applying citizenship are covered by different than law. You don't have brain to comprehend that?
What cut the crap? You werenât proficient in BM originally. Why did you become a citizen? Also, passport renewal does not need BM proficiency. Also, Malay proficiency is never a requirement for citizens by birth. Malay proficiency is required for naturalisation. This is literally part of citizenship law. I state facts and you say cut the crap. LOL. Which part are you not getting? You realise thereâs multiple pathways to citizenship?
ive stated foreigner twice and you shifted the post by stating citizen by birth and you refused to answer the question at hand. what a straw man fallacy, my question is for a foreigner and you brought argument that at birth one doesnt know BM so BM doesnt matter. lol. so for the third time, if a foreigner does not know BM, would you allow them to become malaysian citizen ?
Who is the foreigner here? Itâs not whether I allow or not. You stupid or what? If a foreigner canât speak BM, the foreigner canât be a citizen. Thatâs part of naturalization requirement. I already answered what you asked, yet you donât seem to understand. I canât believe how stupid you are.
im asking your personal opinion, of course its the immigration power to allow or not. naturalization citizen law does required BM proficiency but im asking your personal opinion whether or not you agree with that requirement. hope this clear things up since you ve been calling me stupid. probably my fault not stating my question clearly.
My personal opinion is the same as our law. The benefit of every citizens to pass down their citizenship to their child is a right that all of us have benefitted from. No questions about it. Foreigners via naturalization is a different thing, but as ive said, i agree with whatever the law is .
So, you admit that your point is utterly irrelevant to consular and immigration matters.
I dont give a shit about foreigners applying for citizenship. We are talking about a citizen that was denied her fundamental rights. There is no law nor precedent for the clownshow the officer came up with on the spot. Disgraceful.Â
That's different case isn't it? The woman in the article wants to renew her passport not applying for citizenship.
Since no one will answer your leading question, I will: Yes, the foreigner applying for Malaysian citizenship will need to be able to speak BM. Will you answer my own leading questions, next? If a Malaysian citizen cannot speak BM, are you advocating to strip them of their citizenship? Even if they might not have had a choice in the manner (e.g: as in the case of this aunty, who was forced to drop out of school)? You know that you're asking your question with an agenda in mind. So maybe it's better to state your agenda out in the open, no need to beat around the bush. Go on.
Tak suka, keluar right? Then if cannot keluar cos no passport, how?
"I'm not stuck with you.... you are stuck with me!!!" - Project IC, because arming foreign muslims to overthrow your own government sounds like a good idea at the time...
*scratches head in ketuanan*
You can permanently âkeluarâ from this country by denouncing your malaysia citizenship and try request for other country to accept you. But really, what country will accept you eh? Mybe north korea will, at least you will be smartest there
Ah, found the power tripping officer right here
Ya. UTC in Penang. I ask in English and they fully understand what I asked cos they answered in BM.
https://youtu.be/VFAviU2NfEg?si=KMFY274i81DtulSu if royalty tak bleh cakap macam ne... xp it's a good laugh...fyi my grand mother from KT literally cried hearing this disgrace from Gannu
Damn I thought I was bad
Revoke his passport lmao
Poverty and lack of education is common for those older generations that are now in the late 60s and over. Especially females during that era have the lowest education due to gender inequality. Most of them just have basic primary school education or never attended. As age progresses this elderly having problems understanding their own spoken language due to getting senile and age deteriorate. If you think that they stay in Malaysia for decades they must know Bahasa Malaysia, what initiatives or programs did the government run to encourage or educate those elderly that did not have formal education. Politicians are pushing Bahasa Malaysia agendas while sending their children to International school. If the MP and their children are to take the current SPM BM confirm a lot of them will fail the subject.
True, I know someone's dad who is a lawyer, speak good BM but a few years ago have stroke and affected his speech and language. He is Indian and can speak fluent BM, English, and Tamil, Chinese abit-abit. He completely forgotten how to speak any language beside Chinese for some reason, he use to learn abit of Chinese during his youth and can speak basic Chinese which is enough for daily conversation. Wonder if someone is "less Malaysian" because they cannot speak or understand due to health issue.
This usually comes with what is it called, the doctor warrant of smth? Sry cant remember. But yeah, you can just show it to the officer and its gnna be all right
It is odd for someone who lives in Malaysia for so long unable to speak Malay though. For as long as she lived here has she not interacted with other races? Foreign workers can speak basic Malay while working here for a couple of months without ever needing to go to classes but this lady can't even speak any Malay assuming she's here for her whole entire life.
Why would it be odd if they live their whole life often isolated and minimal interaction with society. Especially housewives, their life only involve family with minimal interaction with society. They will be always be accompanied by their husband or grown-up children, who they can relied on to translate and make decision on their behalves. Also aging, it's a scientifically proven that human brain start to deteriorate and shrink starting in their 60s and progress worst as they age. Age-associated memory impairment make it hard like learning new things, remembering, focus, repeating same words or struggle with technology. Lets compare with younger Malaysian student with 11 years of education, Mental capability and capacity of everyone is different, that's why some get perfect grade while some fail near all subjects. SPM 2023, 24,304 candidates failed Islamic Education, should we assume they are not Muslim even when they spend their whole life as Muslim? Those Malay student fail their Bahasa Malaysia, does it mean they never interact with society? The foreign workers employment agencies often provide basic language training, those work in group will get help with translation by other workers from their same country and they get to practice daily due to requirement of work. Generally age group of foreign workers are young adults that have no problem learning.
It's only odd if you stay in your own bubble
Literally âKatak di bawah tempurungâ moment
Welp, the son didnât do any favours by complaining it in Chinese character writing so only specific people can read them .. I wanna help but how la to understand? Other races also canât help if thy donât understand.. good luck to the mother in the interview I guess..
Indeed, huge mistake, and it won't get any traction because he blew it for his chances to actually challenge the immigration department at a wider audience. If you want the majority to read your complaint, use the right medium. The trajectory of the development will be very different if he produces a constructive argument in Bahasa Malaysia and humbly pointing out her mother didn't have the luxury to graduate/for education back in the days, or lack of practice due to old age. He went for this route.
You are naive if you think it would make a difference what language he complained in.
Must be from Private Cina School. Those people there only see themselves as Chinese who so happen to live in Malaysia. Even my hawker in-laws can speak enough Malay to renew passport, get things done in Majlis Bandaraya and PDRM - the highest qualification among them is SAP.
https://youtu.be/VFAviU2NfEg?si=KMFY274i81DtulSu forget this shit...let's have a laugh
... Google translate or monyets that can understand Mandarin.
Strange. When I renewed my passport I didn't speak to anyone. Took my old passport took number they asked if to renew I just nodded and it was done.
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itâs those small napoleons
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How is it not
Bahasa Melayu is the national language. Nothing to do with race.
does not mean they should ban her from an important service.
That is true. What the officer did may be wrong, but that doesn't mean it's racist.
Instead of trying to help the woman, they instead âbanâ her from accessing important services. Itâs not racist per say, but itâs definitely inappropriate.
Anak kecil main api
Here we go again with the race wars
Matland is behaving more like fucking China now.
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Haiya how to return to tongsan like this? Stay salah, wanna move also kennot. Make up your mind â ď¸
Lmao immigration desk officer on a power trip. Hope he gets fired and becomes a security guard instead, at least he still has a uniform
Then heâll go policing people on wearing shorts
Immigration officer kiter semakin biadap and keterlaluan.
fuck all this bitches... I am gonna renew my passport soon....and will record it while I speak full England on their ass while replying their BM of course... the I will just say, you are telling our Malaysian Gomen educatuonsoshit you can't speak or understandENGLAND... HAHAHA ps I am Sk SMK true and true.
Sure bro, awaiting your full England video. I am waiting
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So, how âpoorâ is it? đŤ¨
Pretty sure there were a bunch of malay princes that had to give speeches in bm a few years ago and they sucked so bad
i am one of those person that advocates for good malay usage for all malaysian citizens. if you re younger than 60 and not struggling with life you should be fucking ashamed if you cant speak malay somewhat fluently. that said. the immigration officer is overstepping the line by a huge lot. this case should be reviewed and action should be taken.
Your advocacy leads to this.
nah man. you may disagree as much as you like. but if you cant speak malay as a malaysian you're a fucking disgrace. that is one statement. another statement is that the officer abused their power. whether or not my statement led to the officer abusing their power is irrelevant. both statements are simply true. or if going by your logic. if i say people should not use phones while driving, a policeman finds a person using the phone, goes ahead snatches their phone, spits on them, shoots them in the head. then runs away. so my statement led to all that abuse of power? thats an individual abuse of power. or should we just all just stfu coz everything we say leads to something bad happening.
And what, in your opinion, is the utility of learning and using BM? Merely to converse with civil servants? The private sectorâs de facto language is English. The cream of Academia and industry? All English. What exactly is so disgraceful about not practicing a language that offers so little utility? I suspect your answer lies more along the lines of âit being the national languageâ and that is what the person youâre replying to is getting at. Patriotism is loving your country and wanting whatâs best for it. Nationalism is ignoring its flaws for the blind belief that oneâs country is the best. As recent as 30 years ago, the average Malaysian could be expected to speak the same, if not better, English than your average Singaporean. Think about what weâve thrown away in the name of race politics. And for what? Our national identity is not tied to a language.
The arguments presented against learning and using BM overlooks several important aspects that emphasize the significance and value of the language beyond mere utility: Preservation of Cultural Identity: Language is not just a tool for communication; it embodies the culture, history, and identity of a nation. Bahasa is not merely a means of conversing with civil servants; it is a cornerstone of Malaysian identity. By neglecting BM, we risk eroding an essential part of our cultural heritage. National Unity and Social Cohesion: A common language fosters unity among diverse communities within a nation. Malaysia is a multilingual and multicultural country, and BM serves as a unifying force that promotes social cohesion and understanding among its people. Empowerment of Local Communities: Emphasizing BM empowers local communities and ensures equitable access to education, employment, and governance for all Malaysians. Neglecting the national language could perpetuate disparities and marginalize those who are less proficient in English. Respect for Diversity: Patriotism involves embracing and celebrating the diversity within a nation, including its linguistic diversity. Upholding BM alongside English demonstrates a commitment to inclusivity and respect for all Malaysians, regardless of their linguistic background. Historical Context and Political Significance: Language policies in Malaysia have historical and political implications. The evolution of language policies reflects the country's journey towards nation-building and the quest for a shared national identity that transcends racial divisions. Global Relevance of Multilingualism: In a globalized world, multilingualism is an asset. Proficiency in BM enriches individuals with a deeper understanding of their own culture and enhances their ability to engage globally with a distinct Malaysian perspective. Balanced Bilingualism: The value of English proficiency should not undermine the importance of BM. Both languages can coexist harmoniously, complementing each other to equip Malaysians with versatile communication skills suitable for various contexts. In summary, dismissing the importance of BM based solely on its perceived utility overlooks its broader significance in shaping Malaysian society, fostering unity, and preserving cultural heritage. Patriotism, in this context, is not about blind nationalism but rather a genuine commitment to nurturing a strong, inclusive national identity that embraces linguistic diversity while advocating for the collective well-being and empowerment of all Malaysians.
Sigh. So much silly nationalism. Would you say Americans have a strong national identity? I would. They donât have a national language. Sure, speaking a single language would increase cohesion, but at what cost? Discarding an existing international advantage in the name of national unity is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. All those thing youâve mentioned are fluff. Cultural heritage? English was a cultural heritage from our colonial days. Social cohesion? I can think of a couple things making more of a difference than BM proficiency. Respect for diversity? Ok now youâre having a laugh. Hereâs the truth: the switch to Malay as language of instruction came about because teachers werenât able to teach in English. Our policy of scraping the bottom of the barrel for teachers and then making them un-fireable started producing the sort of shit results you might expect. Instead of fixing the problem, they moved the goalposts. Everything else youâve stated is just the stupid story theyâve sold you to cover for their mistakes.
America is one of the most laughable countries that comes to mind when it comes to nationalism. English is technically the national language but there are many who choose to ignore it and just speak tongue. Its one of the least united countries out there tbh. Why do you look at america? Look at japan. Look at thai land. You speak japan anywhere in japan, people will understand you. You speak thai anywhere in thailand people understand you. Go malaysia? Saya tak pandai cakap bm. Fucking disgrace. You can give 1001 excuses but that is all that it is. An excuse not to learn bm. If you want a reason why many malays dislike nons, the sheer arrogance of not wanting to learn bm is one of them. Language breeds unity.
> English is technically the national language Nope. The US does not have a national language. Very easily verified. The reason some Malays dislike nons is the same reason some nons dislike Malays: Racism. If you wanna justify your racism with dumb shit like what language people are raised learning, feel free. Doesnât make you less racist, though.
Lol you can deny and defend yourself as much as you want. You may be right on america. You may even be right about racism. But choosing to ignore importance of national language is what you re actively doing. We ll not change each others mind. Good day
Your arguments against emphasizing Bahasa and promoting national unity through language cohesion overlooks several key points and misrepresents the broader context: Misconception about National Identity: Comparing Malaysia to the United States regarding national identity overlooks the unique historical and cultural contexts of each country. The absence of a formal national language in the United States does not negate the significance of language in shaping identity and social cohesion. Countries vary in how they cultivate and express national identity, and language can play a crucial role in this process. America is not a Caucasian countries hence why even they cannot force everyone to speak English! Global Advantage vs. National Unity: The argument suggests that prioritizing English proficiency over BM preserves an international advantage. However, this perspective neglects the importance of fostering internal cohesion within a diverse nation. A shared language can strengthen bonds among citizens and facilitate inclusive national discourse, which ultimately contributes to a stronger and more resilient society. They are many models of successful nations which prioritize their own national language over the English language (Thailand, Japan, China, Germany yet other countries still want to invest and work with them etc not using English as yardstick is really poor argument for not having global advantage) English may have been inherited from colonial times, but Bahasa Malaysia represents Malaysia's unique cultural heritage and national identity. Language is not merely a utilitarian tool but a repository of shared history, values, and traditions. Upholding BM acknowledges and celebrates Malaysia's distinct cultural identity especially that of the people it represent in the very word Malay-sia. The Malays sacrificed their lands and its wealth; willing to share it when bargaining for independence. Saying we don't need it anymore is an insult to the people that have work hard to defend this country even before we were born. Even in Singapore where the Malays are minority nowadays, the bahasa is still respected and learned by their pm as a mean to honor the natives malays there. https://www.ehm.my/publications/articles/malayan-independence-malay-inequality-and-the-bargain Social Cohesion and Diversity: Proficiency in BM contributes to social cohesion by promoting inclusive communication and understanding across diverse communities. Language serves as a bridge that fosters empathy, cooperation, and mutual respect among Malaysians of different backgrounds. Dismissing BM as irrelevant to diversity undermines the importance of linguistic inclusivity in multicultural societies. A non that can spoke bahasa well will always be treated and respected way better than those who dont. While challenges in education policy and teacher quality exist, attributing the shift to BM instruction solely to teacher incompetence oversimplifies a complex issue. Language policy decisions often consider multiple factors, including accessibility, inclusivity, and pedagogical effectiveness. Enhancing teacher quality and addressing systemic issues should be priorities independent of language policy. Reframing the Narrative: Rather than viewing language policy changes as a cover-up for educational shortcomings, it is essential to recognize the multifaceted benefits of promoting BM alongside English. This approach acknowledges the intrinsic value of BM in nurturing a strong national identity and promoting social equity rather than using conspiracy theory to make your point. To conclude, dismissing the significance of Bahasa Malaysia and downplaying the role of language in shaping national identity and unity oversimplifies a complex issue. Embracing BM alongside English reflects a commitment to inclusive nation-building and cultural preservation, fostering a stronger sense of community and shared destiny among all Malaysians
Hmm, weird. Japan, China, India, and Korea did the same thing but it never went viral or made headlines in the news đ¤
Because the Immigration officer is blatantly racist? Malay proficiency is not a requirement to renew your passport and English is widely spoken in this country unlike the countries you mentioned (Except for India maybe)
https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2023/12/986340/saifuddin-defends-bahasa-malaysia-proficiency-requirement-passport He is the home minister. Immigration is under him.
Proficiency in BM is not a requirement. The argument by HM is that it was suspicious she did not know Malay, thus maybe she isnât a citizen. The proficiency test was merely a method to test her citizenship, but not a requirement
Yes. In previous case I had explained this before. Before the hm even spoke about it. My point is, the immigration action has nothing to do with being racist.
At the same time, I find the argument weak. This is a passport renewal. If officers were suspicious that the kid is not citizen, donât you think thatâs a bigger problem? How can a non citizen possess a passport prior? The fact the officer did nothing and asked them to return the next day says a lot. Itâs power tripping. Nothing to do with citizenship testing, at least in this case. So yes, this case for me is simply power tripping. Racism probably. I donât know.
For that case, the immigration officer gave the applicant a chance to go back and come again on a later day bring along any document that can prove the child status. Mind you, being detained by immigration is way worse than being detained by police. You prefer the mom and child go through that?
Perhaps the immigration need to ask themselves how did the mother have a valid passport to begin with.
That is not the front desk officer job. That would be the investigating officer. Which means, the mom and child would need to be detained 1st.
Itâs just the mum by the way. The fact she has a valid IC and a valid albeit expired passport is a proof she is a citizen by the way. Thereâs another way via proof of birth certificate (though it doesnât necessarily mean a citizenship though). I donât know what else you want to do. You asked proof if she is a citizen, and she showed you her documents. What else you want her to do? Then again, Iâm not surprised you think this way. Youâre the same guy who thinks a student who says government universities treating Bumiputera with priority is not racist and is normal in other countries.
>"Saya tidak pernah sebut bahasa Melayu menjadi syarat untuk dapatkan pasport. https://www.hmetro.com.my/mutakhir/2023/12/1038201/penguasaan-bahasa-melayu-lfl-tak-perlu-putar-belit-isu-saifuddin Aik, yang mane nih??? ÂŻ\\\_(ă)_/ÂŻ
Its not a requirement. Not knowing BM raises suspicious.
Not a requirement but required. Got it.
"Raises suspicious"? Is she or is she not a Malaysian citizen? If she can prove she's a Malaysian citizen and that she is who she says she is (i.e: present IC, check thumbprint), what else is there to "be suspicious" about? That she cut off her own finger and grafted on someone else's onto her hand? That makcik is part of an elite cyber hacking group that have found out a way to bypass IC fingerprint check? Which one is more likely? One of the above scenarios? Or that makcik just never had the opportunity to go to school, something that she has no control over? I agree that Malaysians should be fluent in BM - but let's not kid ourselves, this is just power-tripping.
If you are referring to the previous case, it was not the mom's status that was in questioned. The child was unable to answer who is even her father's name. The mother claimed she was devorced and got custody of the child. The immigration officer wanted to see the custody document. As there was cases of forged mykid/mykad cases, the immigration officer wanted to make sure the relationship between the 2. So, the child cant speak BM, dont know the name of her father, have no document to prove the applicant was really her mom. Even a non immigration officer would be a bit suspicious in that kind of sitiation. If the child was actually kidnapped and a victim of trafficking, who would take responsibility, you? Dude, this is the problem with people like you. Dont know the full story, just bit and pieces and then straight make wrong conclusion just because it involves BM.
... What? I'm referring to the case in this very Reddit post. Hence "makcik". "People like \[me\]" lagi ...  The case is very cut and dry for this makcik. She has an IC. If the IC is valid and she can prove that she is the person the IC was issued for, it's case closed. "Not knowing BM" is not a valid reason for suspicion, unless they can explain exactly what they're suspicious ***of***.
You do realize this is just a story from 1 side? Should wait for the other party to give their side also. Maybe there are other information that the story teller failed to mention. But based on this story alone, the officer already tried to be very lenient. Only asked to count from 1 to 10. Or even asked what calendar is in BM. This is no longer proficiency. If cant answer that means cant speak BM at all. You have stayed in this country for so many years, at least can understand and speak even a little tiny bit of BM. If cant speak at all, yes, it does raise suspicious.
Again, nobody can come up with a good explanation of what they're suspicious ***of***. Can she prove she's a Malaysian citizen via a simple, objective system that we've been using for decades at this point (ICs)? If so, what is there to be suspicious ***of***? Who cares if makcik can count to 10 or tell us who was her favourite on Akademi Fantasia - neither of these things are requirements for a Malaysian citizen to apply for a passport. Maybe makcik has never left her little chinese kampung. Maybe makcik has a learning disability. Maybe makcik is growing senile. Or maybe, just maybe, makcik dropped out of school and never had a chance to properly learn the language (which, you know, is explained in the article).
Bahasa jiwa bangsa
No wonder this soul is corrupted.
Oh fuck
bruhhh... Anak Sultan gannu tak bleh cakap gannu macam mane... https://youtu.be/VFAviU2NfEg?si=KMFY274i81DtulSu I rase dia Baku he bleh cakap. lololll
I call bluff here, especially for China and India, which are multi-lingual countries. Show us the rulings which state that getting passports in those 4 countries you mentioned require language proficiency. For China, there is a large number of poorly educated people who either speak their own dialect and speak Mandarin with a very heavy local accent. As for India, there are many other languages besides Hindi, English and Tamil, and there are many in the south who just get by with their local language(e.g Tamil) and English. Thus, for these 2 countries, it is practically impossible to set nation-wide language requirements for passports. If language proficiency is really a requirement for passports, it would have been stated, along with other things such as ic, photos etc. Furthermore, there would also be at least a set of standard questions to test fluency. The fact that it does not exist means that the officer is power-tripping.
Well, we are not them
renew bro. RENEW. GOOGLE IT.
You on drugs? When and where? Not every country has low level officers on a power trip like our immigration officers
Oh so NOW we wanna be like China and India
Should ban Malays that have poor Thai proficiency from entering Thailand. No Thai proficiency? Äi kwaai!
Bruh what the hell is this comparison? One is renewing a passport and one is entering a foreign country? I don't understand the thought process here.
Naga made the most mentally challenged comment I've seen by far 
Weird as shit if malaysian can speak malay. Id be sus too.
A passport isn't like an ID card, its not owned by you, its the property of the Malaysian government. They can deny / approve the passport for a variety of reasons.
Oh really? Including made up nationalistic bullshit? And is it the official policy of the Malaysian government not to issue passports to people that donât speak the way the minimum wage clerks deem acceptable?
They don't have to give any reason for deny a passport, because if you read the passport itself it says its the property of the Malaysian state. its not yours. Its not like an ID card, an ID card they have to give it to you, whether or not you speak Malay or not.
And your point is? That we should subject ourselves to the petty whims of these micro napoleons?
Yes bro, you can go to china and your passport will be yours man, not like its controlled or owned by the government there Also, if u can go to britain, deym your name also had âissued by the royalty familyâ The fact you can talk like shit here means My still had freedom of speech, whatever its a good speech or⌠you.
The saddest part is if you typed this in Malay, youâd still sound like you had some sort of learning disability
It looks like you had a spasm while typing this, what are you even trying to say?
Iâm sorry but this reasoning sounds ridiculous. The passport is an ID card but for when youâre travelling outside the borders of your birth place. How can someone just deny your right to travel outside of the country for an arbitrary reason?
Geez idk, mybe the whole world government? You can go born at USA and speak malay there of course reject punya. You born at china speak Malay, of course rejected. Someone introvert af and doest even involve in any real world interaction smh
Er no. US government offices literally provide translations and sometimes even in-office interpreters at no cost, because they actually care about diversity. [DMV](https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/customer-service/interpreter-services/). [Passport office](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/get-fast/passport-agencies/san-francisco.html) (right column has [flyers like this](https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/passports/content-page-resources/Adult%20Passport%20Card%20Rack-Mandarin%20Chinese.pdf)) Real world interaction sure is important.
You believe on that? Yeah sure. Mybe this post wont happen if this is true: [Requirement to have Malaysian Passport](https://www.imi.gov.my/index.php/en/main-services/passport/malaysian-international-passport/) Maybe use your last line as an act of practicality
So which part of this shows that we have to be able to speak Bahasa Malaysia? By the way, the website is in English đ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Ł
Go touch the grass. The reality is always different from what you have seen.
How is that even related to our conversation?
Read the content in the link. Now read it again. Show us where in the world does it say that you need to know the Malay language in order to be eligible for a passport. It literally states it right there that the only eligibility is to be Malaysian. Which they can check by asking us to show proof of our IC. Youâre arguing for the sake of having an argument. If you want to act as if youâre right, the least you could do is fact check your own statement
Your father teach you that immigration officers have such authority? Their job is to just stamp according to the regulations provided by our government. And I'm very sure that it does not say that passports can't be granted if we can't speak Bahasa Melayu. I hope these front desk officers don't start hallucinating and think that they can create regulations like they're the ketua kampung or some shit
Since when the immigration desk officers have such authority? Last I remembered, our country has regulations and approvals/denials are based on certain guidelines, not at the whims of the front desk officers who are on a power trip
In a way I understand. If something happens overseas and they want you to prove youâre a malaysian, they might ask you to speak the mother tongue. Actually, hasnât this already happened before?
What are you on about? Your proof that youâre a Malaysian comes from the passport that says youâre Malaysian. The scenario you are suggesting is laughably implausible and would never happen
My dude. There are probably thousands to millions of people travelling around the world illegally with fake passports. People really do ask you questions about your home country if they find you to be suspicious enough. Source: Myself. Went to turkey. Immigration asked me where i was from and stuff Fake passport cases in malaysia: https://www.imi.gov.my/index.php/en/keratan-akhbar/fake-passport-syndicate-busted-3-held/ https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2024/02/15/immigration-nabs-masterminds-of-2-fake-passport-syndicates/ https://issuu.com/wildlifejustice/docs/wjc_bringing_down_the_dragon_report_february_2022_/s/14708807 https://www.malaymail.com/amp/news/malaysia/2023/12/05/johor-immigration-dept-busts-fake-passport-syndicate-malaysian-mastermind-arrested/105908 https://amp.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/3246694/singapore-jails-man-20-weeks-over-use-fake-malaysian-passport https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2024/03/27/two-nabbed-in-jb-over-fake-passport-stamps
You are conflating several issues. Literally nobody is going to use a test that any migrant worker could pass to verify your nationality. If the authenticity of your document is in question, they will contact the Malaysian government and attempt to verify your identity through official channels, not by giving you a pop quiz on Malay vocab. I mean do you really think they caught any of the people in the articles you listed by asking them to spit some Malay bars? LOL
Sometimes fake passports are so good they can get into a country easily, which is the point of the articles i have listed. Immigration officers will always ask you questions and it can literally be about anything to find out if youâre suspicious or not. Itâs quite literally part of their job. Like i said, millions of people travel around the world illegally with a fake passport. It would be so easy for people to enter a country illegally if people just look at their passports and say looks legit enough you can pass
What does that have to do with speaking Malay? Dude what do you think the little computers that all immigration officers have do? They ask you questions to determine if you warrant deeper inspection, yes. They verify by using internationally linked databases. You really have no idea what youâre talking about.
The questions can literally be anything. They verify after they determine whether or not you need a deeper inspection right? Thereâs always a possibility. Iâm not saying that it will 100% happen but itâs not impossible. Why wouldnât a question about can you speak your mother tongue be relevant in this case?
You think a random immigration officer overseas is going to speak enough Malay to tell if youâre a native speaker? I think youâve smoked enough, buddy.
âInternational Linked Databasesâ Someone watch a movie too much. A joke.
Just because you donât understand the modern world, doesnât mean it doesnât exist.
I understand it brother. I understand it so much that its impossible to make it with the current world politics In the technical terms, yes it is possible. For the pros, uhhh only for you i guess For the cons, let me tell you bro. Price. The level of agreement of data. Who in the right mind would share their own citizen data to the other country?. The current technology is not advanced as you think thus you are imagining a movie. But tbh, i would like that to happen. It means we all can reach mutual agreement
It already exists you moron. How do you think international autogates work?
Your example is plain dumb. You think the immigration officer in a foreign country is going to test us in Bahasa? What if the next person he wants to test is from Nigeria? Does he have to know a hundred different languages so he could test anyone he is suspicious of? They'll more likely contact our embassy or something if they find us suspicious. Your long list of examples of fake passport articles is just a waste of bandwidth at this point
You are repeating statements If you are japanese, of course people expect you to speak japanese thus passport can be granted But if you had japanese passport but speak only indian and not a little bit japanese, they will port you to india la of course. Honesty, this world oxygen wasted on you for whatever your birthday on Sm
LOL write that barely coherent drivel and then talk about wastes of oxygen. Please leave your kampung and go meet some more people k? You might even learn why everything you just said is so stupid.
Sure, i am good for meeting more people, the more the merrier is it?
Stop making yourself look like an idiot. They don't send people to whichever country of the language they speak LMAO!! Does that even make sense?!?? They'll contact our embassy la HAHHAHAH My goodness, how stupid can someone be
Someone is good at the party is it?
Do you even know what you are saying? You're not even making sense, at this rate talking to ChatGPT makes more sense
haha...i dont speak a work of BM :P I renew passport at consulate overseas where engrish used
Mohon la passport china or taiwan
yo, look at this retard
Inbreds often have mental issues
Mohon bodoh tu tolong simpan sikit
At least i can speak malay..
Let's see how that will benefit you in the private sector.
Mungkin aku keje kerajaan..sape x reti cakap melayu aku reject je..ahahahahaha
Tu senang je, boleh tukar kaunter.
Uh..Kau ingat saya tak reti cakap Bahasa Malaysia ke? But can you speak English, Cantonese and Hokkien?
Calm yourself Si Indon.
Diamlah bangang. Nak mohon pun kena renew passport dulu. Nak balik tongsan pun kena bagi renew passport. Bodoh tu simpan sikit.
X payah..mohon suaka politik..cakap kene buli kt sini...ahahaha...sume butthurt dah kenape..
Why So many butthurt...i am just suggesting the logical solution..