Here I am, as a German but still able to understand these bits of Creole thanks to my French classes. ☺️
You guys rock, I spent my honeymoon on Guadeloupe
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH , mon gars jsuis trop content moi aussi je viens du Lamentin , la premiere fois que je vois un fellow martiniquais sur reddit , meme sur r/france ya pas d'antillais
The English are always happy to meet someone who isn’t unhappy because they live in England, but because they live in France. It is such a rare treasure these days.
? we have black people here and Americans. Neither is a big deal and neither them together. The only rules here is generally don't be a cunt and be considerate to others. You got those down awesome.
I remember I think it was euro cup and reddit decided to bandwagon Italy vs England cause some of the English fans were fucking assholes online to some crying German girl from a previous match.
Meanwhile the Italian fans were really fucking racist but cause reddit is a anglophone site few knew or cared LOL
Coming from an Italian still living there, Italy has a big problem with racism, partly caused by the fascist regime in the 40’s, by lack of support from the EU, and by the geography itself.
Most immigrants and, by extension, most black people aren’t well integrated since they have been located to the periphery of cities, in what are known as “popular houses”, mostly apartment buildings that are managed by the local administration and mostly left in a state of decay, far from other more “dignified” buildings.
This led to the formation of unofficial ghettos in which people don’t get integrated to the culture due to lack of contact with Italians and crime thrives due to the bad living conditions, furthering the stigma as some self-fulfilling prophecy, the less integrated people are, the harder it is for them to get integrated.
Italy has always been a split country historically, mostly dominated by foreign forces and lacking an unified culture, so we might speculate that the arrival en masse of immigrants might be seen as a form of invasion by some, an attack on the unity of the country for which countless wars have been fought.
40/50 years ago people moving from the south of the country to the north were in the same condition, there are even slurs for them.
And while fascism officially ended 80 years ago, during the regime great measures were taken to root the ideology in people’s minds, and they worked, while not downright fascist, a lot of people here still have some ideals that come from it.
It doesn’t help that we didn’t get a lot of support with redistributing immigrants from the EY during the years, most of them unable to leave the country, to the point of a group being chased away from France while trying to pass the border a few years prior.
Now, this is not to justify the behaviour of people towards you or others, but I hope it can help understand some possible reasons behind it, not that I’m a sociologist, just things I observed while living here.
Edit: TLDR, Racism sucks in Italy, it has some complicated, deep-rooted causes that we will have to address if we ever hope to get rid of it.
I am Mexican American.
Southern Italians loved me. And I realized I looked just like them lol
Northern Italians were kinda dickish to me. I was told its because they are asshole to the Italians from the south and they thought I was one of them.
Northern Italians did look more white. Southern Italians looked Latino.
I travelled in Italy with an African American friend while he was stationed there in the Airforce. He is an officer and very clean cut appearance. We’d travel first class on the trains and regularly they would check his ticket three or more times and barely check mine once. In smaller towns they would wave him out of shops until they realized he was American. Once, they barred him entry to a restaurant until they saw his passport. They never asked for mine. Yes, Italy is racist but not necessarily of black people in general. Just black African immigrants or refugees from there or middle eastern countries.
Yes. It is. I've been living in italy for 10 years as a foreigner and there aren't enough words in the vocabulary to describe how deeply rooted racism is in this country. My mental health has gotten worse and worse over time due to the people Im surrounded by every single day. It's not true that "its just the north/south", italians are italians and they all have the same mentality and racism culture. I live in central italy so I have a taste of each. They stare, comment both when you're not listening and when you are (they dont care) and they are pretty quick to get physical only due to the fact you look/sound like an "immigrant" (they love to say that word instead of "foreigner", they feel so superior calling people immigrants because by using that word they remark the fact you come from another country and you "should go back and dont belong")
even after 10 years, speaking a perfect italian, they STILL make comments for an imperceptible accent I apparently "still have" which is simply ridiculous and becomes apparent only if you very carefully listen and are actively looking for it. Having a slight accent is enough for them to attack you and make you feel bad about yourself no matter how many years you live here nor if you are an italian citizen or not. Italy is still living in the 1920s mentally, most people never moved on from fascism.
I disagree on that last part. It’s not that people haven’t moved on from on it, it was a reflection of Italian society to begin with. The fascists didn’t come and suddenly brainwashed the entire population, there was a lot of racism/classism to begin with
That was something that was present in every european country back then. Sure, it generally wasn't as bad as it was in Italy, but it was still really bad.
Most countries have confronted that past and have mostly moved on. Italy hasn't.
It certainly does appear that (at least against black people), racism is still much more heavily rooted in Italian society than the rest of Europe. But you still see quite a lot of Islamophobia, hate against Gypsies, etc. in the rest of Europe. Pretty much all European countries confronted their problems, yes… and stopped acknowledging them. It’s not like all Nazis and fascists were tried after the war in all of Europe, nor like all communists disappeared from Eastern Europe once the USSR fell. Most were left out there with the whole “Oh, but it’s not everyone, so you can’t judge us for that” and most of those issues have remained, but with different words. Just because racism switches from loudly shouting for someone to get lynched to saying “well, I’m not a racist, but…” doesn’t mean it’s not there.
Mussolini famously said: I didn’t create fascism I took it from the unconscious of the Italians.
As a foreign deep connoisseur of Italy, I think that’s entirely accurate to describe large chunks of the traditional Italian mindset and culture. And to be honest I kinda find it interesting.
I think it’s a product of we as people recognizing what is “bad” according to society. And of course, being social animals and all that, we have the tendency to not do what’s “bad” or “wrong” according to others. Even though we know that stuff like fascism, racism, etc. are bad, it doesn’t stop us from holding those same beliefs. That’s why we have a lot of people saying stuff like “I’m not a racist (because racism is bad, and of course I’m not bad), but…”, because we know the term is bad, so we have to disassociate our beliefs from the bad term. You’ll hear stuff about how “those people are (x) thing (taking away our jobs, lazy, inferior, unable to learn, brutes, rich, effeminate, etc.)”, and how people also say they’re just “defending traditional values” (family, matters of sexuality, religion, etc.). In a vacuum, these are valid concerns, but once you understand the context and that we love making up reasons to justify our superiority, it makes sense why we do it. And political movements are a reflection of a society, not an invention of an individual. The biggest contribution people like Mussolini did was put all those ideals present in society into a somewhat unified ideology, and mixed it with a few of his own
As an Italian who's lived in the US for a very long time, this upsets me immensely. Italians have emigrated to pretty much every corner of the world and for the most part have been assimilated into the local culture. The fact that there's so much resentment towards foreigners/immigrants and particularly towards black people is absolutely revolting. There's no excuse for it. The whole "immigration from Africa is a problem" argument is total crap: the majority of immigrants in Italy come from eastern Europe (Romania above all) and they don't get treated as badly just because they're Caucasian. The fact that you have to endure the abuse you're experiencing is 100% born of ignorance and stupidity. I've actually witnessed Italians in Rome acting in a racist way towards a black Italian, born and raised in Rome who spoke with a Roman accent... it's horrible.
I'm sorry it's that way, scusa a nome di tutti (pochi?) che non sono come la maggioranza
I second this. I am Italian and lived there until a couple months ago. I have always hanged out with foreign looking Italians and straight up foreigners, my significant other is a scary **extracomunitaria**, so by walking alongside them I got to see with my own eyes and experience what they went through. Italian people are horribly racist especially the older generations.
It's bad, and it's systemic too. Bank tellers, post office workers, municipality employees, police, hospital workers, will be worse and disrespectful to you because of racism. Random people on the street may shout something offensive in your direction, completely unprovoked. The police will stop and question you. (Only time in my life I have been stopped by the police and questioned and asked for my resident visa **permesso di soggiorno** was when I was hanging out with a second generation Pakistani friend. He is a citizen and speaks the local dialect better than I do.)
In a word and as I always say, Italy is a great country to visit as a tourist but a hell to live in.
Just visited Italy a few months ago with my [white] girlfriend and it was mostly fine…
HOWEVER, I did not appreciate having to explain to my girlfriend what was going on when some middle school aged kid started doing a “booga booga” dance in front of me outside of a museum.
I am black I went to Rome and foreigners, not Italians, were mean because I am a US citizen and they talked shit about the United States but no one was racist to me or the party I traveled with.
Yes, went to Italy in 2010, a big family trip. Got hit with so many bad looks, racial slurs and bad service all around. We knew Italy had its faults but that shit was crazy. It was supposed to be a be 40 birthday celebration trip for my aunt. Most of my family felt really bad they spent about 70% of the time in the hotel. My cousins, and 2 uncles and me said fuck it. We are going to ignore and enjoy shit, if we have to fight because some dudes might cross the line fuck it lets go.
They may be but at the same time most of them would let you live in their homes and feed you if you needed it. Except for maybe Bucharest. It's a very common cultural thing to be generous and giving. Which is why I love Romania and their culture
I’m Mexican, and fairly darker skinned…
I get mistaken for Middle Eastern even by Middle Easterners themselves.
In Helsinki, after they heard my accent, and they asked me where I was from, their tone completely changed.
As someone of Cuban descent who lives in Ireland this rings true.
I have been asked where in Iran, Pakistan, India, or Palestine I'm from.
Once someone asked me where in New Zealand I was from.
Then I start talking.
Brown skin, black hair, brown eyes. Half of the world looks like that haha
Yeah let's just say middle eastern folk aren't the most popular here... It's not so much about skin color as it is about umm.. cultural mismatch in some parts
Yes, we are worse.
I'll expand on this a bit, ask people what they identify the most with (province, Flanders, Belgium or Europe). If they identify more as a Flemish person than as a Belgian or European person, I would be cautious. Not automatically dislike them, but be careful.
(if they identify the most with Antwerp, run)
As a Polish person living in Poland I can tell you that black people won’t get mistreated or anything, but seeing a black person is very rare and they’ll definitely get a lot of looks and casual racism.
As someone from Poland, I'm sorry if you were treated badly there. Most of us are actually not racist, but there's a lot of morons there. It's a shame you had to deal with the morons.
that is most of eastern europe for you.
there are basically 3 kinds of people: the ones who don't care about your skin, the ones who are also harmless, but look at you as if you popped out from a fairy tale, and the ones who hate/fear all kinds of non-white people (mostly due to anti-migrant propaganda). in bigger cities the first group is the largest, in rural areas they are more evenly distributed.
My wife was born and raised in Poland. She said that some bigger cities like Krakow and Warsaw, with internationally-attended universities, were known for Black students being followed and sometimes mistreated. She said the news organizations and general public were outraged at this mistreatment. She added that most Poles never saw a Black person outside of movies, TV, or social media and might stare or behave inappropriately - but not because of malice or prejudice, just ignorance. She thinks more and more Poles are becoming less racist over time because they have sympathy for mistreated ethnicities (Poles were treated as second-class subhumans by Imperial Russia for hundreds of years).
I've traveled with her in Poland. One memory is of how many kids there are, how many playgrounds, and the huge number of roadside shrines. Her hometown (about 40,000 people) is constantly filled with the sound of children playing, babies babbling, and everyone walking everywhere. And families getting together in the evening outside, with the kids playing on trampolines and Nintendo Switches while the adults drink vodka. Social drinking is a BIG thing there.
It's an urban legend that Western Europeans hate them even remotely as much as Eastern Europeans do.
We can barely tell the difference to other Eastern Europeans. Muslims though. 😡
The French have got to be one of the most contradictory people on Earth. Uproar over Iraq but silent on Africa. Uproar over ethnocentrism yet reject all who don’t act French.
I've never ever met a Western European being outspoken about Roma - most don't care or aren't even really thinking about them, but it seems a big topic in Eastern Europe. Many Western Europeans do tend to be very negative about Muslims, which seems more about culture/religion.
Irish Travellers specifically are hated in the UK.
And after having a few encounters with them over my life I find it takes a great deal of mental effort to disagree.
They are also not widely loved in Ireland. Though apparently they weren't always such a burden on society and a lot of the mutual suspicion is due to attempts to eradicate their culture in the 1960s. Or so my progressive friends tell me.
There were some government moves back in the day to try and integrate traveller society yes. They don't really want to be part of general society. They want to travel about, work odd jobs, and kind of just be left to do their thing.
Once you get to know some of them. Your kids go to school with their kids. This and that you'll see their grand like. Not bad people, maybe not good people, just people who want to live by their own rules. To be able to hit the road when they want, go fishing for their dinner, get paid cash in hand, and go on their merry way.
I live in Ireland. Maybe 500 meters from a few houses that are intermittently home for a few traveller families.
They're grand like. In as much as you get to know them, their kids, they get to know you. Everyone kind of lives somewhat peacefully.
Not to say your man won't go out looking to clean gutters and driveways and do fencing and gates, but then disappear once he has the money.
More to say he won't do it to you. He'll actually do the job for you so he can take photos and put it on his Facebook.
These comments always kind of confuse me (as a European). I don't think I even remember ever seeing a gypsy. Literally have zero feelings towards them, neither positive or negative.
The thing is that back in the 90s (western) Europe was upset with the treatment that gypsies got from Romania.
They were upset for pretty good reason imho, and historically the roma've been treated terribly all over Europe (and beyond), however, as soon as any country got a large enough roma population they started having issues and showing signs of what can be described as racism (the question is.. is it racism tho?).
So please enjoy your relative innocence in this aspect, and to everyone else: I think that if you ask Romania to take the problem migrants back, they'll say "ha ha no"
Rural Scotland here, they come and take over car parks and farmers fields for months at a time then leave the locals to clean up after they’ve fucked off to terrorise the next village.
Farmers have to sell them equipment at a massive discount just to stop them from stealing stuff. They are effectively just organised crime gangs.
If they’re blocked from entering somewhere private, they will destroy property in retribution and I’ve seen them flatten entire embankments just to get their caravans into a farmers field and past the massive boulders moved to stop them using the gate.
What type of European are you. I am a Brit and the only time I have ever experienced first hand cat calling was by gypsies. They live in caravans and commit lots of crime.
the town my grandma lives in (in England) is under siege by gypsies. they have two camps on either end of town along the main road that goes through, and they go into town to wreak havoc and steal. my grandma and all the other old people that make up the majority of the town population hate them.
This was my opinion until I moved to Europe. First I was in the UK, now I'm in a mainland country.
I absolutely understand why there is such widespread animosity towards Romani. I pity the kids born into this oppositional and opportunistic culture, but I completely get why the average European doesn't want Romani anywhere near them. I've had a few experiences over the last 8 years, and all of them have been unquestionably negative.
I saw a poll not too long ago that Serbians supposedly have the most positive attitudes towards black people of almost anywhere in Europe. Which one level makes some sense- the old Yugoslavia had a really good international student program and a lot of Africans studied there, plus basketball is really popular there so they’re somewhat exposed to American black culture- but is also so so funny given how Serbians feel about basically everyone else.
Weirdly actually a great region to go to if you’re black. Avoid Hungary, Croatia, and Greece if you don’t want to be yelled at and chased, but expect extreme hospitality in Serbia, Bosnia, Albania, etc.
Poland is such an interesting and bizarre country in regards to race
I went on a school trip, on one day we did auschwitz-birkenau, and on another day, we had to leave a plaza because there was a white nationalist march happening
They arent nazis, and they are extreme nationalists. An entire part of polish nationalism is hating nazis, and while there are nazis in poland, they are a veru tiny group.
Finland is just very xenophobic, it probably has less to do with your skin color and more to do with you not being Finnish
They don’t even like other Europeans that much
As an American with Indian roots, Ive visited Iceland, Switzerland, France, Italy and Germany. Iceland and Switzerland where spectacular, very friendly people. France and Italy were okay, no racism experienced.
The worst was Germany, these people love to fuckin stare, they stare so much that I thought I was back in India again. At least in India, they stare out curiosity or acknowledgement. Either Germans got resting angry faces or they just hate people of color. This dude on the train would just stare at us angrily for like 5 whole minutes before taking a nap, then waking up and staring at me again. A whole lot of older Germans stared at us, I remember sitting down at a train station and there was this huge group of old Germans staring at us like we just killed 20 people right before we sat down. Absolutely crazy, never felt more uncomfortable in my life. The country’s great though
Welcome to Germany. It's not only old people anymore. It's like literally everything over 40-50.
And now imagine being born here and of course being German and never feeling welcome and or a sense of belonging. And then hearing all the time the same bullshit about integration etc. Pp. Even tough you went to the Germany army, finisig masters and PhD etc. Etc.
The racism in Germany is absolutely crazy. And it's in nearly every social circle.
Finland is one of most racist countries in eu [https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2018/11/fenland-shamed-as-the-eu-s-most-racist-country-in-new-report.amp.html](https://www.newshub.co.no/home/world/2018/11/finland-shamed-as-the-eu-s-most-racist-country-in-new-report.amp.html)
[Not even close according to World Population Review.](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-racist-countries)
Definitely most racist out of nordic countries though.
Little late but I hope you can answer OP! What makes Portugal “Cool”? Only one you labeled that way. I’m white but my partner is black and we are lookin to visit and if it goes well, possibly live there for awhile. Wanna make sure its safe for them.
What did the english do to you to make you uwu?
I imagine they're black American. So basically treated like celebrities in the UK. they're just so cool.
I am not black american, i am french carribean, people in the UK we're normal to me lol. I didn't have a bad experience with them
Are you from the French west indies ? Im a Guadeloupean it’s pretty rare to find ppl from my island on this app lol
Yes i am loll, I am from Martinique, it's so rare and you also speak english fluently? c'est super
Rarest part of this is that a French person can speak English
we starting to beat the allegations
Oui, starting to beat the allegations*
Zee allegashuns*
A Fench person spoke English at the shared Dutch Green and labour parties congres this weekend , we were all shocked.
No way we’re literally sister-islands lol ! an ka voyé bon fõs baw big up
Mési, sa ka fè mwen plézi de voir peuple mwen
Here I am, as a German but still able to understand these bits of Creole thanks to my French classes. ☺️ You guys rock, I spent my honeymoon on Guadeloupe
Once you know french, you understand Creole 🤣 That's so amazing tho a German who went to West Indies, it's not common
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH , mon gars jsuis trop content moi aussi je viens du Lamentin , la premiere fois que je vois un fellow martiniquais sur reddit , meme sur r/france ya pas d'antillais
Hey neighbor! I'm from Antigua, right above you.
Dominica here, right between them!
Hello friend! Im not from Guadeloupe but I lived there on and off for ~3 years. Such a beautiful place.
Im glad you had a good experience living there ! Im currently studying in France but Im going back this Summer Im so excited.
The English are always happy to meet someone who isn’t unhappy because they live in England, but because they live in France. It is such a rare treasure these days.
Lol but you didn't answer why the uwu came out for the UK 😂
Where in the UK do black Americans get treated like celebrities?
Nowhere. No idea what he's on about lol
Nowhere, maybe they just arent used to people being nice to them.
They’re not American
Why would we British treat African-Americans like celebrities? They're just as human as the rest of us
? we have black people here and Americans. Neither is a big deal and neither them together. The only rules here is generally don't be a cunt and be considerate to others. You got those down awesome.
Never visited Italy. Is it really so bad?
Italy and Spain are notorious in the football world for going above and beyond with their racism.
ex: balotelli (italy) and Dembele (spain)
id say vinicius is a better example for spain - they are racist towards him for asking them to stop being racist towards him , what an insane idea
Yeah also vinicius, but there are a lot of black real madrid players rn so i dont think they were as lonely as them
Yeah good point, i think back then it probably would’ve just been umtiti maybe as the other coloured barca player ?
You haven't been to Balkan 🇬🇷🇬🇷💪💪💪
and Slavic. Russian fans literally throw bananas at black hockey players
Competitive racism
See the black sex doll hung in a bridge with a vini juniot jersey a year ago
I remember I think it was euro cup and reddit decided to bandwagon Italy vs England cause some of the English fans were fucking assholes online to some crying German girl from a previous match. Meanwhile the Italian fans were really fucking racist but cause reddit is a anglophone site few knew or cared LOL
Don't recommend if you're sensitive lol, but the country itself is beautiful. Just have to deal with people behavior
Coming from an Italian still living there, Italy has a big problem with racism, partly caused by the fascist regime in the 40’s, by lack of support from the EU, and by the geography itself. Most immigrants and, by extension, most black people aren’t well integrated since they have been located to the periphery of cities, in what are known as “popular houses”, mostly apartment buildings that are managed by the local administration and mostly left in a state of decay, far from other more “dignified” buildings. This led to the formation of unofficial ghettos in which people don’t get integrated to the culture due to lack of contact with Italians and crime thrives due to the bad living conditions, furthering the stigma as some self-fulfilling prophecy, the less integrated people are, the harder it is for them to get integrated. Italy has always been a split country historically, mostly dominated by foreign forces and lacking an unified culture, so we might speculate that the arrival en masse of immigrants might be seen as a form of invasion by some, an attack on the unity of the country for which countless wars have been fought. 40/50 years ago people moving from the south of the country to the north were in the same condition, there are even slurs for them. And while fascism officially ended 80 years ago, during the regime great measures were taken to root the ideology in people’s minds, and they worked, while not downright fascist, a lot of people here still have some ideals that come from it. It doesn’t help that we didn’t get a lot of support with redistributing immigrants from the EY during the years, most of them unable to leave the country, to the point of a group being chased away from France while trying to pass the border a few years prior. Now, this is not to justify the behaviour of people towards you or others, but I hope it can help understand some possible reasons behind it, not that I’m a sociologist, just things I observed while living here. Edit: TLDR, Racism sucks in Italy, it has some complicated, deep-rooted causes that we will have to address if we ever hope to get rid of it.
I am Mexican American. Southern Italians loved me. And I realized I looked just like them lol Northern Italians were kinda dickish to me. I was told its because they are asshole to the Italians from the south and they thought I was one of them. Northern Italians did look more white. Southern Italians looked Latino.
It's true. But even pure Mexican typically have about 50% European DNA.
which parts of Italy did you visit?
I travelled in Italy with an African American friend while he was stationed there in the Airforce. He is an officer and very clean cut appearance. We’d travel first class on the trains and regularly they would check his ticket three or more times and barely check mine once. In smaller towns they would wave him out of shops until they realized he was American. Once, they barred him entry to a restaurant until they saw his passport. They never asked for mine. Yes, Italy is racist but not necessarily of black people in general. Just black African immigrants or refugees from there or middle eastern countries.
We are surprisingly not that racist towards Asians because they are seen as "hard workers" and get a free pass
Yes. It is. I've been living in italy for 10 years as a foreigner and there aren't enough words in the vocabulary to describe how deeply rooted racism is in this country. My mental health has gotten worse and worse over time due to the people Im surrounded by every single day. It's not true that "its just the north/south", italians are italians and they all have the same mentality and racism culture. I live in central italy so I have a taste of each. They stare, comment both when you're not listening and when you are (they dont care) and they are pretty quick to get physical only due to the fact you look/sound like an "immigrant" (they love to say that word instead of "foreigner", they feel so superior calling people immigrants because by using that word they remark the fact you come from another country and you "should go back and dont belong") even after 10 years, speaking a perfect italian, they STILL make comments for an imperceptible accent I apparently "still have" which is simply ridiculous and becomes apparent only if you very carefully listen and are actively looking for it. Having a slight accent is enough for them to attack you and make you feel bad about yourself no matter how many years you live here nor if you are an italian citizen or not. Italy is still living in the 1920s mentally, most people never moved on from fascism.
I disagree on that last part. It’s not that people haven’t moved on from on it, it was a reflection of Italian society to begin with. The fascists didn’t come and suddenly brainwashed the entire population, there was a lot of racism/classism to begin with
That was something that was present in every european country back then. Sure, it generally wasn't as bad as it was in Italy, but it was still really bad. Most countries have confronted that past and have mostly moved on. Italy hasn't.
It certainly does appear that (at least against black people), racism is still much more heavily rooted in Italian society than the rest of Europe. But you still see quite a lot of Islamophobia, hate against Gypsies, etc. in the rest of Europe. Pretty much all European countries confronted their problems, yes… and stopped acknowledging them. It’s not like all Nazis and fascists were tried after the war in all of Europe, nor like all communists disappeared from Eastern Europe once the USSR fell. Most were left out there with the whole “Oh, but it’s not everyone, so you can’t judge us for that” and most of those issues have remained, but with different words. Just because racism switches from loudly shouting for someone to get lynched to saying “well, I’m not a racist, but…” doesn’t mean it’s not there.
Mussolini famously said: I didn’t create fascism I took it from the unconscious of the Italians. As a foreign deep connoisseur of Italy, I think that’s entirely accurate to describe large chunks of the traditional Italian mindset and culture. And to be honest I kinda find it interesting.
I think it’s a product of we as people recognizing what is “bad” according to society. And of course, being social animals and all that, we have the tendency to not do what’s “bad” or “wrong” according to others. Even though we know that stuff like fascism, racism, etc. are bad, it doesn’t stop us from holding those same beliefs. That’s why we have a lot of people saying stuff like “I’m not a racist (because racism is bad, and of course I’m not bad), but…”, because we know the term is bad, so we have to disassociate our beliefs from the bad term. You’ll hear stuff about how “those people are (x) thing (taking away our jobs, lazy, inferior, unable to learn, brutes, rich, effeminate, etc.)”, and how people also say they’re just “defending traditional values” (family, matters of sexuality, religion, etc.). In a vacuum, these are valid concerns, but once you understand the context and that we love making up reasons to justify our superiority, it makes sense why we do it. And political movements are a reflection of a society, not an invention of an individual. The biggest contribution people like Mussolini did was put all those ideals present in society into a somewhat unified ideology, and mixed it with a few of his own
Italian culture seems to place gatekeeping at the forefront.
I already had an idea from how they treat the football players there
As an Italian who's lived in the US for a very long time, this upsets me immensely. Italians have emigrated to pretty much every corner of the world and for the most part have been assimilated into the local culture. The fact that there's so much resentment towards foreigners/immigrants and particularly towards black people is absolutely revolting. There's no excuse for it. The whole "immigration from Africa is a problem" argument is total crap: the majority of immigrants in Italy come from eastern Europe (Romania above all) and they don't get treated as badly just because they're Caucasian. The fact that you have to endure the abuse you're experiencing is 100% born of ignorance and stupidity. I've actually witnessed Italians in Rome acting in a racist way towards a black Italian, born and raised in Rome who spoke with a Roman accent... it's horrible. I'm sorry it's that way, scusa a nome di tutti (pochi?) che non sono come la maggioranza
I went to get delicious schwarma around the corner (I’m American, white) and the receptionist sneered at me telling me that that wasn’t real food.
I second this. I am Italian and lived there until a couple months ago. I have always hanged out with foreign looking Italians and straight up foreigners, my significant other is a scary **extracomunitaria**, so by walking alongside them I got to see with my own eyes and experience what they went through. Italian people are horribly racist especially the older generations. It's bad, and it's systemic too. Bank tellers, post office workers, municipality employees, police, hospital workers, will be worse and disrespectful to you because of racism. Random people on the street may shout something offensive in your direction, completely unprovoked. The police will stop and question you. (Only time in my life I have been stopped by the police and questioned and asked for my resident visa **permesso di soggiorno** was when I was hanging out with a second generation Pakistani friend. He is a citizen and speaks the local dialect better than I do.) In a word and as I always say, Italy is a great country to visit as a tourist but a hell to live in.
Its not an old mentaliy, even the younger people in italy hate immigrants because of maranza
I mean they did invent fascism
Just visited Italy a few months ago with my [white] girlfriend and it was mostly fine… HOWEVER, I did not appreciate having to explain to my girlfriend what was going on when some middle school aged kid started doing a “booga booga” dance in front of me outside of a museum.
I am black I went to Rome and foreigners, not Italians, were mean because I am a US citizen and they talked shit about the United States but no one was racist to me or the party I traveled with.
Yes, went to Italy in 2010, a big family trip. Got hit with so many bad looks, racial slurs and bad service all around. We knew Italy had its faults but that shit was crazy. It was supposed to be a be 40 birthday celebration trip for my aunt. Most of my family felt really bad they spent about 70% of the time in the hotel. My cousins, and 2 uncles and me said fuck it. We are going to ignore and enjoy shit, if we have to fight because some dudes might cross the line fuck it lets go.
I’m black and I didn’t experience any of that and I went to a bunch of places in Italy. I loved it and want to go back.
Are people surprised? Italians are racist towards other Italians from further south.
uwuk
Romanians: very direct and rude sometimes, but will give you one of their lungs if you need it.
not one of their own lungs of course, just one they’ve “borrowed”
don't look a gift horse in the mouth
Turn it into glue
Don't look a gift lung in the alveoli
How many lungs have they?
At least five
And also simultaneously have one of the most beloved and famous TV stars a black person. And I’m not complaining, Cabral is amazing
They can also out drink anyone. Tsuica is no joke.
I did find Romanians strangely rude. And I’m from a part of the US that is famously “direct and rude”. The Romanians were just so much more so.
They may be but at the same time most of them would let you live in their homes and feed you if you needed it. Except for maybe Bucharest. It's a very common cultural thing to be generous and giving. Which is why I love Romania and their culture
Ich skibidich.
fuck I'm never getting that one out of my head as native german 💀💀
Skibidich du?
ich skibidi du skibidest er/sie/es skibi
As somebody who barely understands German but does teacher 14 year olds, you saying “I’m Skibidi” is a very familiar phrase
skibidich Toilette
Skibidich Scheisshaus
To be fair to the Finns they are like that with everyone.
I’m Mexican, and fairly darker skinned… I get mistaken for Middle Eastern even by Middle Easterners themselves. In Helsinki, after they heard my accent, and they asked me where I was from, their tone completely changed.
As someone of Cuban descent who lives in Ireland this rings true. I have been asked where in Iran, Pakistan, India, or Palestine I'm from. Once someone asked me where in New Zealand I was from. Then I start talking. Brown skin, black hair, brown eyes. Half of the world looks like that haha
That's certainly suspicious
Yeah let's just say middle eastern folk aren't the most popular here... It's not so much about skin color as it is about umm.. cultural mismatch in some parts
As a Belgian, you can replace the "lovely sweet" with the "as long as youre not a muslim" one here too
Does it vary with the Flemish?
Yes, we are worse. I'll expand on this a bit, ask people what they identify the most with (province, Flanders, Belgium or Europe). If they identify more as a Flemish person than as a Belgian or European person, I would be cautious. Not automatically dislike them, but be careful. (if they identify the most with Antwerp, run)
Ohhh that's what it says. I thought it said "Devils sweet" and I couldn't understand what that could mean. (Zoom in and it looks like Devils sweet)
what does the poland one mean
its the "well weeelll weeeellll" country
so like a "🤨" country?
There are good people in Poland, but there are BAD people in Poland too. Definitely a "well, weeell, weeeeeell" kind of country.
So like, „not sure” ?
like good and bad simultaneously
Kinda like "well well well what do we have here"
As a Polish person living in Poland I can tell you that black people won’t get mistreated or anything, but seeing a black person is very rare and they’ll definitely get a lot of looks and casual racism.
fake news, uncle ruckus prolly hates poles too
The lesser whites but still white
I read that one as "we don't take kindly to your kind in our neck of the woods".
cóż, cóż, cóż
https://www.knowyourmeme.com/memes/well-well-well-like-a-moth-to-a-flame-tiktok
How it works in the context of Poland? Is it some cultural reference from US that doesn't make any sense in EU?
Nah it just means they don't like black people
As someone from Poland, I'm sorry if you were treated badly there. Most of us are actually not racist, but there's a lot of morons there. It's a shame you had to deal with the morons.
that is most of eastern europe for you. there are basically 3 kinds of people: the ones who don't care about your skin, the ones who are also harmless, but look at you as if you popped out from a fairy tale, and the ones who hate/fear all kinds of non-white people (mostly due to anti-migrant propaganda). in bigger cities the first group is the largest, in rural areas they are more evenly distributed.
In simple terms they just don't like black people
My wife was born and raised in Poland. She said that some bigger cities like Krakow and Warsaw, with internationally-attended universities, were known for Black students being followed and sometimes mistreated. She said the news organizations and general public were outraged at this mistreatment. She added that most Poles never saw a Black person outside of movies, TV, or social media and might stare or behave inappropriately - but not because of malice or prejudice, just ignorance. She thinks more and more Poles are becoming less racist over time because they have sympathy for mistreated ethnicities (Poles were treated as second-class subhumans by Imperial Russia for hundreds of years). I've traveled with her in Poland. One memory is of how many kids there are, how many playgrounds, and the huge number of roadside shrines. Her hometown (about 40,000 people) is constantly filled with the sound of children playing, babies babbling, and everyone walking everywhere. And families getting together in the evening outside, with the kids playing on trampolines and Nintendo Switches while the adults drink vodka. Social drinking is a BIG thing there.
Europeans when they see a Black person:😃 Europeans when they see a Muslim: 🤨 Europeans when they see a Gypsy: 🤬
It's an urban legend that Western Europeans hate them even remotely as much as Eastern Europeans do. We can barely tell the difference to other Eastern Europeans. Muslims though. 😡
A French person told me you can’t be racist against Roma because they aren’t really people. With a straight face.
"a french person" completely oblivious
Let the bots fight between themselves
a Romanian person explained to me that in his country, the Roma fight with the dogs over the contents of the trash cans
Did you ask him about the Italians? If he says the same about them it's not personal, it's just France being France.
The French have got to be one of the most contradictory people on Earth. Uproar over Iraq but silent on Africa. Uproar over ethnocentrism yet reject all who don’t act French.
the french didnt judge the irak war because it was inhumain. they judged it because they refuse to follow america
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Of course, a fr*nch person said that.
I've never ever met a Western European being outspoken about Roma - most don't care or aren't even really thinking about them, but it seems a big topic in Eastern Europe. Many Western Europeans do tend to be very negative about Muslims, which seems more about culture/religion.
Eastern Europeans have Russia too close for them to forget how to hate properly.
In the language of my people, we say that Russia isn’t a place; it’s a state of mind
Irish Travellers specifically are hated in the UK. And after having a few encounters with them over my life I find it takes a great deal of mental effort to disagree.
They are also not widely loved in Ireland. Though apparently they weren't always such a burden on society and a lot of the mutual suspicion is due to attempts to eradicate their culture in the 1960s. Or so my progressive friends tell me.
There were some government moves back in the day to try and integrate traveller society yes. They don't really want to be part of general society. They want to travel about, work odd jobs, and kind of just be left to do their thing. Once you get to know some of them. Your kids go to school with their kids. This and that you'll see their grand like. Not bad people, maybe not good people, just people who want to live by their own rules. To be able to hit the road when they want, go fishing for their dinner, get paid cash in hand, and go on their merry way.
I live in Ireland. Maybe 500 meters from a few houses that are intermittently home for a few traveller families. They're grand like. In as much as you get to know them, their kids, they get to know you. Everyone kind of lives somewhat peacefully. Not to say your man won't go out looking to clean gutters and driveways and do fencing and gates, but then disappear once he has the money. More to say he won't do it to you. He'll actually do the job for you so he can take photos and put it on his Facebook.
blonde hair i have u gypsy
that means someone fucked your mother that is turkish but your father is not hoho
Balkans_irl is leaking
It means I am strong sperm. Strong sperm, grik god ogey?
These comments always kind of confuse me (as a European). I don't think I even remember ever seeing a gypsy. Literally have zero feelings towards them, neither positive or negative.
What country are you from? They're very present on many European countries.
The thing is that back in the 90s (western) Europe was upset with the treatment that gypsies got from Romania. They were upset for pretty good reason imho, and historically the roma've been treated terribly all over Europe (and beyond), however, as soon as any country got a large enough roma population they started having issues and showing signs of what can be described as racism (the question is.. is it racism tho?). So please enjoy your relative innocence in this aspect, and to everyone else: I think that if you ask Romania to take the problem migrants back, they'll say "ha ha no"
The first time I saw a gypsy was when I was little and one gypsy lady entered my house and sneaked half through the hallway. I'm Polish.
Rural Scotland here, they come and take over car parks and farmers fields for months at a time then leave the locals to clean up after they’ve fucked off to terrorise the next village. Farmers have to sell them equipment at a massive discount just to stop them from stealing stuff. They are effectively just organised crime gangs. If they’re blocked from entering somewhere private, they will destroy property in retribution and I’ve seen them flatten entire embankments just to get their caravans into a farmers field and past the massive boulders moved to stop them using the gate.
What type of European are you. I am a Brit and the only time I have ever experienced first hand cat calling was by gypsies. They live in caravans and commit lots of crime.
the town my grandma lives in (in England) is under siege by gypsies. they have two camps on either end of town along the main road that goes through, and they go into town to wreak havoc and steal. my grandma and all the other old people that make up the majority of the town population hate them.
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This was my opinion until I moved to Europe. First I was in the UK, now I'm in a mainland country. I absolutely understand why there is such widespread animosity towards Romani. I pity the kids born into this oppositional and opportunistic culture, but I completely get why the average European doesn't want Romani anywhere near them. I've had a few experiences over the last 8 years, and all of them have been unquestionably negative.
from my many hours on r/balkans_irl, i can say, dont go there
I saw a poll not too long ago that Serbians supposedly have the most positive attitudes towards black people of almost anywhere in Europe. Which one level makes some sense- the old Yugoslavia had a really good international student program and a lot of Africans studied there, plus basketball is really popular there so they’re somewhat exposed to American black culture- but is also so so funny given how Serbians feel about basically everyone else.
Too busy being racist to other white people to be racist to anyone else.
oh, i forgot about that i remember hearing that were a lot of mexicans in yugoslavia too
Basically, what I ascertain is most Balkan places don’t care much about places very far from them, but a whole lot about ones closer
Serbia still has a the student program, i literally stumbled yesterday upon a guy from Angola, they are all cool and he is in our army academy!
KARABOGA TIME
K
A
R
A
B
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G
A
Weirdly actually a great region to go to if you’re black. Avoid Hungary, Croatia, and Greece if you don’t want to be yelled at and chased, but expect extreme hospitality in Serbia, Bosnia, Albania, etc.
Poland is such an interesting and bizarre country in regards to race I went on a school trip, on one day we did auschwitz-birkenau, and on another day, we had to leave a plaza because there was a white nationalist march happening
I'll never get over the irony of neonazi Poles.
And they will say "we are not nazi, we just love our country", fucking extreme nationalists
They arent nazis, and they are extreme nationalists. An entire part of polish nationalism is hating nazis, and while there are nazis in poland, they are a veru tiny group.
ich liebe dich auch 🥹
Ich libidichauk*
Well well well, eloquent 😆
Finland is just very xenophobic, it probably has less to do with your skin color and more to do with you not being Finnish They don’t even like other Europeans that much
Racing Iceland on who becomes the Japan of Europe
They both enjoy the other nordics from personal experience (the fins will never admit it about the swedish, and the Icelandic about the danish)
The Danish kinda suck tho tbh Source: am Icelandic
I've never felt such solidarity with Iceland before
To be honest, 'a little unconfortable but allright' is a good description of most social interactions between us Finns.
Tbf, from what I understand, they're like that with everyone, including other Finns
Doesn't France have the highest proportion of muslims in western Europe ?
Yes we do, 10%, not surprising since we colonized Maghreb, Sénégal … and yes, France is becoming more and more openly racist and islamophobic :(
Yeah that’s the problem, according to them anyway.
Not the highest but yes they do have a lot a large population of muslims
Most of Eastern Europe would be: Wow, a black person! I’ve only seen them in movies! 👀
Only if you live in a small town. In bigger cities it’s almost impossible to have a one hour long walk and not pass by a black person.
„Well well well”????
"Well well well, what have we here..." being said when they see a black person.
As an American with Indian roots, Ive visited Iceland, Switzerland, France, Italy and Germany. Iceland and Switzerland where spectacular, very friendly people. France and Italy were okay, no racism experienced. The worst was Germany, these people love to fuckin stare, they stare so much that I thought I was back in India again. At least in India, they stare out curiosity or acknowledgement. Either Germans got resting angry faces or they just hate people of color. This dude on the train would just stare at us angrily for like 5 whole minutes before taking a nap, then waking up and staring at me again. A whole lot of older Germans stared at us, I remember sitting down at a train station and there was this huge group of old Germans staring at us like we just killed 20 people right before we sat down. Absolutely crazy, never felt more uncomfortable in my life. The country’s great though
Germans really love to stare, and many have resting butch faces. But plenty of old people are also just really racist.
Welcome to Germany. It's not only old people anymore. It's like literally everything over 40-50. And now imagine being born here and of course being German and never feeling welcome and or a sense of belonging. And then hearing all the time the same bullshit about integration etc. Pp. Even tough you went to the Germany army, finisig masters and PhD etc. Etc. The racism in Germany is absolutely crazy. And it's in nearly every social circle.
Similar background as you, Germany was the worst for me too. Someone in Berlin literally spit on me. I was in shock.
Well well well
They’ll love you in Romania, every other Balkan country will hate you, ironic how the whitest Balkan country is the least racist
Finland i just country filled with introverts. Has probably nothing to do with your skin tone.
Finland is one of most racist countries in eu [https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2018/11/fenland-shamed-as-the-eu-s-most-racist-country-in-new-report.amp.html](https://www.newshub.co.no/home/world/2018/11/finland-shamed-as-the-eu-s-most-racist-country-in-new-report.amp.html)
[Not even close according to World Population Review.](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-racist-countries) Definitely most racist out of nordic countries though.
Wow, it turns out that the concept of racism doesn't even exist in Iceland
Yeah, low ethnic diversity
That you have visited all of the Nordics, but Denmark, makes me very happy
Little late but I hope you can answer OP! What makes Portugal “Cool”? Only one you labeled that way. I’m white but my partner is black and we are lookin to visit and if it goes well, possibly live there for awhile. Wanna make sure its safe for them.
Bruh Balkans are easily better than the rest of Europe.
My sister “pretty white chick” went to Italy and said they are the most scummy creeps on earth.
as a white italian, i comfrim
As a Black woman from the US I want to visit Lake Como in October. Now I’m kind of nervous :/
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Don't blame the Finn's too much, Half of them probably don't know that all people aren't the same colour as blank paper.