I still remember him looking dejected on the red carpet interview for Eternals. When asked about Dane, his response was: “He’s just a guy who works in a museum.”
He wasn’t lying in retrospect.
I came to brood over my failure....and he makes it difficult....because he looks better brooding than i do.....makes me feel like im failing at brooding over failing.
I was really hoping that Black Knight would be like Blade's kid apprentice. Damn I wonder if the rewrites on Blade's script removed Black Knight entirely.
It’s like anything else, they kinda lost their way and prob the fervor of the audience as well
And they really don’t know how to shift back to medium stuff. Between post-endgame, covid, Disney+ oversaturation, kang, comic book movies everywhere bombing…they are doing all kinds of hairpulling and thinking about how to actually move forward at this point
They had to pump brakes and put out fires I’m sure. I bet they don’t even want to hear the name Blade anymore
In all honesty since it appears that they want to reduce a bit the number of products but for a quantity of reasons it is unrealistic they want to abandon characters they already introduced, I think it is more likely that new project will host more characters now than in the past. But let's see.
i think this is a good thing in the long term, I really do.
Marvel ran with wayyyyy too many character introductions way to quickly. Let the superfluous ones fall off, and the storyline can start to get more manageable.
The Eternals introduced NINE core heros, a handful of otherworldly villains, further expanded the celestials, added in the possibility for the Black Knight AND Blade.
That's too much.
EDIT Forgot about Eros and Pip, so that like what, THIRTEEN NEW HEROS in one flick? c'mon!
Exactly what I was going to post. I only stayed in the movie theater to see what would happen with his character. Oh well, I want him to move forward to the Jon Snow series, and maybe fix the end of *Game of Thrones*. Would have been cool, though, for him to have a Marvel movie.
> Oh well, I want him to move forward to the Jon Snow series, and maybe fix the end of Game of Thrones.
That's also been cancelled today. It's not a good day to be Kit. Except for, you know, being rich, handsome and married to a gorgeous redhead of course.
lol were at the point where fucking *America Chavez* has been featured as a primary character in a major film for the broader MCU.
Black Knight is absolutely more prominent and consequential than many characters that have already been given a spotlight.
Inconsequential? Had more appearances than most other characters they've introduced into the MCU from the comics. Long run leading the Gatherers Saga, which would make for an incredible storyline. Much more interesting than this multiverse saga has turned out to be.
It’s wild how little has actually been achieved in P4
Even P2, that bought in Ant Man, set up Black Panther, destroyed SHIELD and made the Spin Off AoS work properly, set up the GotG for future Space stuff, as well as Power stone and Thanos, set up the Reality stone…
They also oversaw the start of the Netflix shows, which blow all the news shows out of the water.
It’s crazy how shit this has been post endgame. No wonder The Boys is getting so many viewers.
I'm more upset about all of the things that happened during the movie apparently had zero effect on the rest of the MCU.
A goddamn celestial was starting the process of destroying the Earth during its emergence. Luckily, the Eternals stopped it during the process, but there is still a giant half-born celestial sticking up out of the ocean. Then at the end of the movie, freaking Arishem shows up, whisks away the remaining 3 Eternals who hadn't left Earth yet, and vows to come back once he determines whether or not humans deserve to live or not.
Arishem would probably make Thanos cower in fear, and yet none of the other MCU superheroes seem concerned about it in every movie released since Eternals.
I think Feige would love to just hand-wave Eternals away as if it never existed in MCU canon, but the cat is out of the bag, in my opinion.
Marvel keeps trying to find the *new* big thing when they have plenty of storylines to work with already.
They don't necessarily have to make another *Eternals* movie (though I wouldn't mind), but they also shouldn't just ignore everything that happened. Arishem could totally show up in a different MCU movie and wreak havoc.
They could also have a scene where other superheroes are seen monitoring the situation and at least talking about the looming threat that *still* exists since Arishem said he would return to Earth.
/soapbox
Couldn’t they just say Eternals took place in a different multiverse? Are there really any hard hooks into Earth 616? The blip and Thanos could have happened there too.. it’ll also get them out of Black Knight/Eros/Blade in the “main” universe.
I mean, yes, they absolutely could do this, but would doing that not be equivalent to the hand-wave to get them out of *current* MCU canon?
The execution of the multiverse, thus far, has been far from desirable. I like the idea of it, but if they are going to start using it as a crutch to get rid of less desirable characters, then I'm not a big fan.
I agree but at least it’s a plausible hand wave.. if they’re building to eventually “reset” after Avengers 5.. it will at least allow them to refocus like they say they are and stop introducing new characters, focusing on the established ones and connecting them.
I don’t remember the She Hulk connection to Eternals.. was it Kingo? Could be a mutant in the main MCU maybe.. idk marvel is just spread too wide with too many characters without enough follow up/development of these introduced characters for the last 4 years.
I totally loved that reference. I think even if we don't get Eternals 2 (maybe at a later date?) I'm sure they'll find a clever way to at least not leave those plot lines dangling. I mean, they're bringing back Sterns from the Incredible Hulk. That was thought to be a dropped plot for over a decade. But they're getting around to it.
I mean, he's not an Eternal. But why they decided to connect him to Blade and then allegedly not put him in the Blade movie I have no idea (unless its a period film and not modern day).
My only hope is that he gets right into Avengers somehow otherwise. Thats where he belongs
The Blade movie is another can of worms altogether. We know next to nothing about this film that is supposed to drop next November. Haven’t seen reports of filming since it was delayed due to the strikes. Feels like execs are falling asleep at the wheel here
I think we are already beyond this point. A new director was hired last year and allegedly the film script is in a good place now. The reason its taking so long to film now is scheduling, because the writers strike pushed it back further.
In the comics they're connected because they're both British and at times on the same English super teams. But I feel like they probably are going to keep Blade an American like the Snipes version. So the connection seems weak.
That's a bummer since he ages slowly his first intro movie being set in the 70s-80s would have been awesome then for the sequel or cameo in another movie he could pop up in modern times
Almost everything is being neglected or left behind. Haven’t seen or heard about Shang-chi, the eternals, Thor, Guardians, Dr. Strange, or any catastrophic incident that happened in Phase 4. It used to be that one entry in the MCU created a huge wake in the next movies that came after it.
When Iron Man 2 came out, Thor was mentioned. There used to be characters from previous movies. Now it’s all meaningless when none of these movies have an impact in the universe it resides in. Too many storylines with not enough pay off.
I said this here and in another thread, but I don’t necessarily need Shang-Chi, the Eternals, Thor, etc to have another full movie right now, I just want them to show up and interact with other people more often so we’re all reminded that they’re still out there.
Marvel clearly had no coherent plan for phase 4. All it did was throw idea after idea at the audience and tried to break new grounds through Disney Plus. That endeavor failed because of poor writing and a lack of oversight by Feigi. Who hinges their big bad on the Ant Man IP, which was established as a comedy franchise?
I don’t think this is entirely fair
The obvious major problem that no one seems to be addressing - Chadwick Boseman’s death was tragic but also derailed their plans.
They invested more time and patience into establishing Black Panther and Wakanda than anything else toward the lead up to End Game.
Black Panther was going to be the lead character, taking the reins from Iron Man and Cap and then using Wakanda as the foundation for the MCU to be “focused” on.
With his passing, they had no other actor willing to go full time that also had a solid presence. The only real option would have been Dr Strange, but Cumberbatch probably wasn’t willing to sacrifice 10 years of his life doing solely MCU stuff. Plus, Dr Strange would have made for a difficult character to position as the lead of the franchise as it is.
Black Panther was the plan. His passing threw the entire plan out the window. They no longer had a strong leading character to push. Then Covid happened. Suddenly they didn’t know if movies were ever coming back. Don’t forget - we had over a year where restaurants and tons of service industry companies collapsed due to the pandemic
So, they invested in D+ shows and kind of threw together what they could… but they already lost their plot with his passing
Basically, they got shot in both kneecaps.
I’m not saying this excuses every decision made, but we need to keep the reality of how it got to this point in mind.
They had a planned replacement as the lead with Black Panther, they lost him to tragedy. Then Covid made everyone have to go on pause for over a year and reevaluate if movies were even going to be a thing anymore.
The situation got fucked up, bad.
It doesn’t excuse the fact that it’s so disjointed now, but… it explains it.
Even worse with that scoop of Eternals 2 getting either canned/ transformed or whatever. They should stick to their guns and work towards making the sequel click.
Elements for success have been placed - Makkari, Druig - 2 of everyones fave eternals alongside Angelina friggin Jolie and Harry ‘Watermelon Sugar’ Styles set to lead. Just write a good story. since the first handled the bulk, make this one a complete ride and adventure with the essence of what made the first great intact.
It’s like they absolutely unlearned everything that made the MCU work in the first cycle. Build on what you’ve done, don’t expect immediate global domination especially with new properties, give people a reason to want to come back.
It was such a DC “if we just put these cool guys all together why wouldn’t people come and watch?? Oh it didn’t work? Guess we throw it all in the bin and go do the same thing again with a different show runner”.
>Build on what you’ve done,
This is what I think is driving people crazy with the current state of the MCU. I'm not saying I wouldn't want to one day see a Wonder Man show. I'm not saying "Who asked for this?".
But why is DDC working on Wonderman before he's following up on anything Shang-Chi related when it's going to be 5 or 6 years since the original film?
Why are we teasing Hercules at the end of Love and Thunder. If it's going to take 5 or 6 years, to get that Thor 5 film out to people to follow up on the plot thread. It just doesn't make sense.
Their planning or lacktherof shows. Carol is a prime example of this flaw and a big victim. Imagine intending to make her be 1/3 of the new trinity of the new saga but took 6 years to give her her sequel with two post credit scene appearances in between, when her sequel finally arrived they had her roll with people that aren’t the avengers.
It shouldn’t take 6 years. They really should give focus to those on the table and ensure they connect with people like how characters from the previous saga did
I’m fine if they cancel Eternals 2. I don’t think anyone will miss it. But it needs a spiritual sequel, either blade or other wise to address events of the movie. Blade is more important than E2
Truth is neither is more important than the other, both can still happen - you just prefer Blade over Eternals 2, personally and that is ok. Blade is far from the right entry to be an Eternals spiritual sequel though, assuming it’s only cuz of Dane, the only thing eternal related about him is that he cameo-d in the movie and dated one. Even then, we dont even know if he’s showing up in Blade lol.
When the news about the eternals sequel being canned there was an uproar about it. I wouldn’t pretend like there wasn’t to conclude nobody would miss it. Reports say Feige wanted to do it, Iger is the only blockage.
Don't get the Blade hype, that'd just be another movie they'd never touch again. And at this point, it doesn't seem it'll be a very good movie if they ever make it
I don't get the Blade hype either, it is almost impossible for it to be as good as Wesley Snipe's first Blade film.
The bar is just that high.
It has to compete with a rated R Blade, that was one of the first successful comic book films that wasn't Superman, Batman, or Spiderman.
It came out at a time when comic book movies were usually really bad like Spawn.
Blade came out when the *only* successful comic book movies were Superman and Batman. It came out before X-Men or Spider-Man. It was literally the first successful Marvel Comic-based film.
Once Mahershala Ali finally announces he's dropping out, I'm sure we won't hear about Blade again for a decade. It couldn't be a worse time to bring Blade into things.
I agree. I mean, real life time is a thing. After these rounds of FF and X-men projects the reboot has to come sooner or later right? I’m sure Marvel will want to be able to have all their IPs play together and hard to do that when the OG Avengers are all dead/retired.
> Even worse with that scoop of Eternals 2 getting either canned/ transformed or whatever. They should stick to their guns and work towards making the sequel click.
Between budget and marketing they will have to spend $350 million on Eternals 2. Given the performance of the first film there is a massive possibility of losing over a hundred million dollars on a sequel. Films need to make money.
everything has been neglected for the sake of shoving as many new characters down our throats as physically possible
I've been saying that we didn't love Iron Man, Captain America, Hulk, Hawkeye, Black Widow, and Thor
We fell in love with Tony, Steve, Bruce, Clint, Natasha...and Thor
Eternals is a big low point in the mcu. And given how bloated the mcu has gotten its good fat to trim. The characters were bland, none of them resonated with the public.
It’s best to just ignore this junk movie and move on. “No one” wanted an eternals movie, “no one” liked the eternals movie and “no one” want more eternals
They have some of the most bankable actors to play lead roles in the film. Getting those actors again together for a sequel (and potential appearances in other projects) is gonna be a scheduling nightmare. Imagine trying to book Angelina Jolie at the same time as Barry Keoghan, while also trying to get Gemma Chan, Harry Styles, etc. I highly doubt we’ll see any of the Eternals come back any time soon.
After reading comics for years I can say something being canon doesn’t really matter to ne. Story should always supersede “canon”. Hopefully they can work in harmony, but sometimes they don’t.
It was pretty trash tho.. I think for those that had to try hard to find the movie “mid”, The Eternals might mark the beginning of the decline for the MCU.. I definitely feel like that was a turning point.
For me, the best part of the eternals was the end credits scene
It sucks for Kit, but if I were a betting man I'd put $$ on Blade being cancelled. I doubt Eternals 2 happens, so his character is probably done for. The MCU got too big. The Infinity Saga worked because it focused on Iron Man, Cap, and Thor. Watch their stuff plus Avengers movies and you could piece together 90+% of what's happening. Now you have to watch Wandavision to understand why Wanda's going after kids that didn't exist in Dr. Strange.
Your last sentence is actually a fantastic point. I enjoyed Wandavision, but the MCU thrived when the films were the narrative focus. I thoroughly enjoyed Wandavision and especially enjoyed Loki, but I can see how all the television + film viewing, combined, would end up being too much for a lot of fans to keep up with. Further, the recent films have had very little to do the broader conflict while the shows have. This can create a perception that the films are the optional viewing.
Somebody else made this point that I agree with:
Basically, I thought after Endgame, they’d still keep the narrative focused. E.g.,
Phase 4
- Doc Strange 2
- BP 2
- Cap Marv 2
- Ant-Man 3
- Spidey 3
- Avengers 5 (Low stakes, focusing on chemistry of newer Avengers)
- New Character (e.g., Shang Chi)
Phase 5
- Doc Strange 3
- BP 3
- Cap Marv 3
- New Character 2 (e.g., Shang Chi 2)
- Newer Character (e.g., Eternals)
- Avengers 6 (Farewell to Doc Strange, Spidey, BP (RIP Chadwick), Cap Marv)
And so forth
Like the phases would still follow a recognizable pattern without expanding (too) wildly
Marvel didn't need to expand so quickly, but the model you're suggesting here is actually *slower* than where phase 3 was. Where's Thor 4? Gotg 3? Deadpool 3?
The original model worked because Marvel was focusing exclusively on the Avengers. If that's only what you want to see, then yes the model you've proposed is ideal. But the Avengers can't co-exist with the X-Men, Fantastic Four, and street-level heroes, it'd take forever to introduce them.
I honestly think Marvel would've been fine with 3 movies and 2 shows spread relatively evenly throughout the year. They screwed themselves by releasing 9 projects essentially back-to-back in 2021 (though to be fair COVID did have a bit of a hand in that) - people got overwhelmed and opted to quit rather than play catch-up, especially since many of those projects weren't up to the very high standards set by Phase 3
I don’t think anyone would have objected to 4 being a “cooldown” after the great Thanos climax. This isn’t the economy, stories aren’t good when it’s just “more, more, more.”
I watched *everything* day one IMAX. I returned to the cinema to watch most movies at least a second time.
I gave Disney+ a good chance but after 1 episode of Secret Invasion I gave up. I didn’t even bother with Echo - it just had no reason to exist.
I’ve said since the bloat was announced that people were insane when they said “just like comics, you just pick and choose what you want to see”. That works for the extremely niche hobby comics but can’t work for the MCU. As it turns out, you *do* have to watch everything and as a result people end up watching nothing.
Watch Endgame, skip Wandavision, and try to make sense of why Wanda is insane in Dr. Strange Multiverse of Madness.
It is down right JARRING. She just gets the Darkhold (off screen), pretends to live on an apple farm, and goes insane when Dr. Strange visits her for help.
Whoever is in charge of that has dropped the ball. The show on Disney+ should have fleshed out the MCU, not been integral to its story telling.
Lol I literally just got done doing this. I’m getting back into the MCU after a few years hiatus. Watched Eternals last night and Dr Strange a few hours ago.(I skipped Shang Chi but will come back to it)
I really enjoyed Multiverse of Madness but clearly I was missing a huge chunk of context from a supposed ‘optional’ viewing.
I mean I’ll probably end up going back and watching Wanda Vision, but it sucks that just watching the films in order isn’t enough to stay up to date this phase.
It was fine. That’s my entire review of the show in three words.
To elaborate, it wasn’t great but it wasn’t horrible. The Daredevil fight was awesome. Kingpin was rad. The slightly more violent tone was welcomed. But the show also just kind of didn’t need to happen at all. It didn’t push any broader narrative any further. Echo is an interesting character in the MCU, even if she is quite different from her comic book counterpart, but I’m just not convinced that she needed her own show.
The plan after Endgame was supposed to be “no phases. Just individual stories for a while.”
But that got muddied when there was pressure to announce that they were building to Secret Wars. So you have some projects that are self contained (Shang Chi, Eternals, Moon Knight) and some projects that need “homework” (MoM, Loki, Marvels)
The result is of course, no one (on the internet) is happy and there’s just as many people complaining about things being isolated as there are people complaining about having to do homework.
I think the reality is they were INCREDIBLY lucky to sustain everything up until Endgame. Somebody said “making a movie is hard. Making a great movie is almost impossible.”
To your last statement, I feel like luck did have a lot to do how well the Infinity Saga played out because this was the first time you have a huge cinematic universe and all the actors were mostly on the same page and there weren’t too many controversies.
Compared to everything since Spider man FFH where we had a year of no movies or projects in the pandemic, huge delays In everything, Chadwick Boseman’s death, actor contracts expiring, Jonathan Majors’ troubles, Victoria Alonso getting fired, and the writer and actors strikes.
This. And frankly, they're not going to give up on fucking Mahershala Ali. Not when the guy himself came to Marvel in the first place. What kind of message would Feige send to other big names who have yet to work in the MCU ?
Honestly this feels like part of the problem to me. Rather than making the movies that make sense they’ve gone ooh a famous person wants to play a certain character let’s try shoehorn that in somewhere.
What Marvel needs to do is to split stories.
I feel like the cosmic side of MCU should introduce a crossover specific to the cosmic side while Earth stories should have a grounded crossover.
I think this is the reason they will probably never hit the same heights again, Pandora's box is already open, they've already significantly affected their main storyline with their TV shows. I highly doubt you'll get to watch the newest Avengers: Kang Dynasty without having to watch Loki first. And it's only going to get worse.
Yea it was pretty easy to understand if you’ve never seen many Marvel movies before that the big purple alien wanted the magical colorful stones to snap half the universe and The Avengers had to stop him.
They better do a good ass job to basically explain the dude wearing green and purple wants to destroy and conquer the multiverse because….. reasons….
This has been my thoughts basically. There's too much going on now and too many characters but there's no current overarching plot bringing them all together like Infinity War and Endgame. It was supposed to be Kang but after Majors got let go, they more or less scrapped him.
Also it's hard to keep up with because instead of just watching each movie to understand the plot, you now have to get Disney+ and watch all their shows to understand the references in the movies.
I think Disney+ marvel shows were a mistake in the long term and they seemingly want to focus mostly on those over actual movies.
The MCU is floundering and needs a reset badly.
Just like the Netflix shows were. They may reference NY being attacked in Avengers, but you didn’t need to see any of the Netflix shows to understand what was going on in the MCU movies.
Also I feel like a lot of people are forgetting that TV shows and movies require completely different levels of commitment. Wandavision is 6 hours, Loki is like 12. That's 3 or 6 movies worth of time you have to spend to get caught up, plus more if there are actual movies you have watch to be caught up as well, and that's just 2 of the shows they released. I didn't rewatch the entirety of released phase 3 movies when Endgame came out because I had already seen those movies in theaters and enjoyed them, I just watched a few that I wanted to and even then I didn't spend 12 hours doing it. I doubt the average person is interested in watching 18 or 20 hours worth of content they didn't care enough to watch on D+ when it first came out in order to be ready for the next movie. There's a reason Agents of Shield reacted to the movies but it didn't work the other way around.
> Now you have to watch Wandavision to understand why Wanda's going after kids that didn't exist in Dr. Strange.
Yep, for casual movie fans who didn't see Wandavision, Wanda just goes from badass hero in Endgame who peacefully mourns Vision on the lake shore with Hawkeye, to total insane lunatic in Dr. Strange Multiverse of Madness for no apparent reason.
That disconnect turns off casual viewers.
It will be the same when they just up and have Hulk's son in a movie, or She-Hulk just walks into a room. Nevermind that Hulk's son actually just appeared in She-Hulk, completely unexplained for the people that actually watched She-Hulk! The casual viewer will be like, who the fuck are these characters and where did they come from? That is to say nothing of G'iah and her extensive list of powers, Moon Knight's schizophrenia, or Loki coming back with Sylvie, who is also a Loki.
For casuals, there is no hope to make sense of all of the Disney+ content, along with the forgotten one off post credit scenes from 6 years ago.
It really wasn't. It was the end of the Ultimate universe and that's it. 616 continued as if nothing happened. Miles and his family and friends got moved (and ressurected for some) to 616 cause he gave a rotten sandwich to Molecule Man and that was pretty much the only change to 616.
Even had Doom continue his shenanigans not long after, despite Secret Wars having a good ending for him.
And it was supposed to be a whole new multiverse, but it wasn't and existing alternate universes were still existing (like the Spider-Gwen one for instance, or the Old Man Logan one)
Hickman intended it to be a reboot, but Marvel clearly never played the game.
Because honestly they should. By the time Secret Wars releases, MCU will be going for nearly 20 years. It has so many entries that it's difficult to attract new viewers and it's getting hard to keep up for the old viewers. And most of their iconic heroes are either retired or will retire soon.
Cause there’s no X-Men or Fantastic Four in the main MCU universe so the logical thing to do would be to use this variant stuff they’ve been building for years to reset/unify the timeline and include them. The alternatives are both start now after the Avengers or we find out they’ve been hiding/out-of-commission. Both alternatives make them feel less special.
>Why are some people so confident that Secret Wars will result in a franchise reboot?
That's pretty much what the most recent Secret Wars in the comic was.
The Secret Wars comic ended with the Marvel Multiverse being destroyed and Mr. Fantastic and Franklin Richards rebuilding the multiverse.
Assuming something similar happens in Avengers 6, the multiverse is going to be reset, and if Marvel is smart they'll do a soft reboot. It allows them to recast heroes to keep them in the MCU longer, bring back dead/retired heroes without ruining their original story, etc
Because:
- People don't like the direction of the MCU
- People want Iron Man and Cap back without harming the Endgame events
- Secret Wars uses the "merging timelines" plotlines which if retooled, can work as a way for a reboot
- XMen and F4 inclusion
Imagine the entire Eternals cast. if the scoops about the sequel being canned are true, Salma Hayek and Don Lee are never returning. Despite the eternals being, eternals lmao
I think it’s not completely over for Kit as Dane, it’s just gonna take a real while for him to come back, until they wrap up the saga. An absolute mess if you ask me.
Goddamn it that was the only one that could Even try to fix the mess that show created in its last season.
They really are handicapping that series by letting season 8 stand as the ending of the story. Any prequel still results in Jon stabbing Dany, through their own baby.... Ugh I hate hate hate it
I think I'd be disappointed but not pissed. The likelihood of Eternals 2 happening is low and the Blade movie has gone through several directors and rewrites. Probably better just to move on and get other jobs.
I honestly think they just need to stop introducing all these extra characters. At this point they're just throwing as many references to the comics in as they can without stopping to ask if it actually adds to the story.
The Infinity saga worked because it fundamentally focused on a core group. Yes other heroes had their moments, but the main plot always came back to Stark, Thor, Cap, and Hulk. The main Avengers were immediately identifiable. Now I couldn't even tell you who the main cast is supposed to be. I don't think the studio even knows.
People are just airing their takes in this thread so here's mine, where is the team up movie?
I get a lot of the mistakes weren't obvious in hindsight but this one makes no sense to me because the team ups were the effin payoff of doing the MCU
It took 4 years and 5 movies to get to the Avengers and from there the MCU was on a good path despite any stinkers that would come.. because the path was fundamentally compelling. We had our core heroes.
How are we much further along than that post Endgame, with all the lessons of the past 2 decades learned, but with no clarity on this, and all we really know is Kang will matter?... Am I missing something as a casual?
My guess is that the honest truth is that the reasons are logistical.
Audiences now expect an Avengers movie to be epic in scale. The movie could be fantastic but if it deals with a threat that's too small in scale, a large portion of the casual audience will complain that "even the Avengers suck now". Because they had expectations and the movie didn't meet them.
So that means an Avengers movie would need to be like Infinity War or Endgame, and that means a large ensemble cast. And a large ensemble cast is doable if it's a fresh IP where you cast whoever's available, but in a long-running franchise you can't just cast whoever's available; you have to cast the established actors who have been playing the roles for years. And that means you have to somehow schedule the movie in such a way that the shoot takes place during a time window when all of these actors are available at the same time. And scheduling that is a fucking nightmare. Any Dungeons & Dragons DM can tell you that it's a nightmare finding a night of the week where 5 specific regular-ass people are all available. How much more complicated when you need a couple dozen in-demand superstars in the same place at the same time for several weeks?
And that's not even to *mention* the money. Back in Phase One if you hired an actor to do "an Avengers movie", most actors wouldn't even know what that *meant*. But NOW? After Endgame? Each and every actor will know that this movie should make at least a billion dollars and will demand three or four times their usual asking price because they know the budget is there.
So at this point, making an Avengers movie is extremely complicated and extremely expensive. And so while they're waiting for the scriptwriters and directors to come up with a plan for an Avengers movie that's possible to film sometime this century, Marvel is wondering whether maybe audiences wouldn't perhaps like to see a *different* teamup movie with *lower, more manageable* audience expectations about the cast size and *more reasonable* talent budget? A teamup movie like Thunderbolts? And if that works then maybe they can be a new team for a new saga.
Just like the other 15+ characters they shoved into every property the last few years.
Why even have blade talk to him in that post credit scene if they arent going to put him in the blade movie?
Why? Because there is no vision anymore. Feigi has checked out.
Sure, he's stuck. But that's where the second part comes in - too many new characters, and not enough planning. Yeah, it makes no sense that they've done so little with him
This is so infuriating. Especially with his post credits scene, I was excited to see him interact with the other established avengers. And just…nothing
Yeah even one of the persons at Marvel confirmed recently that there was indeed a mandate to the studio from the higher ups that they had to release as much content as possible. now that mandate is gone, but that mandate really did alot of harm to the brand.
How many of those have involved new characters? Just Shang Chi. For every successful character, they have five that didn't do well, in many different ways.
People love Iman Vellani's Kamala (and for good reason), but both of projects she's appeared in so far have been flops. What's the takeaway there?
To be fair, everything that could’ve delayed the Blade movie seems to have happened at some point. It’s like the whole production is cursed or something.
I think its less that Feige checked out, but more that he's spread too thin, so he can't oversee everything to the same extent as he used to back in the day. plus they had a mandate that they had to release as many films and shows annually so they can have new Marvel content every other month, i mean having to go from 3 movies a year to 9-6 projects a year, i don't see how you are going to be able to keep all of that under check in the same way you did before.
Why even have Scorpion talk in Homecoming post credit scene if they aren't going to put him in Spider-Man FFH and NWH ?
(I agree with the current MCU being a fucking mess, but it's not a new thing to have post credit scenes that lead to fucking nothing lmao)
The MCU peaked at Endgame and it's not gonna get better. That's just the truth. I'll be surprised if Blade even happens. Mahershala is probably gonna check out of that eventually.
If Daredevil and Deadpool don't perform well, the MCU is done. Nobody is gonna care about Fantastic Four and the X-Men.
They focused so much on shit that people don't care about, and they keep doubling down on it. And yes before some smart-ass says it, people don't care about the current state of the MCU. You know, because almost everything outside of a few projects has made any traction. Nobody cares about these new characters or anything going on.
They need a reset or they need to bring people back with some nostalgia because I have no clue what they're doing or what anything is leading to.
One of the new characters in the MCU that could have been actually interesting and they made him an extra in Eternals and then sidelined him completely.
Daredevil, Deadpool and Fantastic 4 are the only things I'm actively excited for. I'll see Brave New World and Thunderbolts because why not. Don't really care about anything else
It’s actually funny to think about. You know how in Loki Season 2, they were talking about the overarching problem being that too many branches were being created infinitely on top of each other? That’s basically what happened with the MCU. Every project spawns another project or two, on top of the original, and it just doesn’t stop.
So as of this point no Black Knight, No Captain Britain and that means no Otherworld. RIP Magic sword guys. And how freaking hard is it to make a bloody Blade movie? Good grief! Daywalker kills other Vamps. Bing Bang Boom Done! You aren't making high brow critically acclaimed academy awards stuff here
Post Endgame, I continue to be at a complete loss as to how the Disney braintrust is deciding which properties the audience actually wants to see adapted.
Christ. I'm REALLY not a fan of their current strategy of "introduce a shit ton of new characters and not do anything with them for years".
If this were anything like phase 1 both Shang-Chi and Sam Wilson would've gotten two movies each by now.
I still remember him looking dejected on the red carpet interview for Eternals. When asked about Dane, his response was: “He’s just a guy who works in a museum.” He wasn’t lying in retrospect.
Doesn't he always look like that? 😅
I came to brood over my failure....and he makes it difficult....because he looks better brooding than i do.....makes me feel like im failing at brooding over failing.
Well, I think you're doing a wonderful job at brooding about failing to brood over your failure. Stay depressed, you're doing amazing!
Damn that stinks - black knight can be a great character if they adapted him right or even cared snoop him
Sad. I was really looking forward to the Black Knight appearing.
I mean I want Black Knight, I also want Captain Britain and Otherworld shenanigans
you read my mind. Capt Britain, Black Knight and Blade all together would be perfect (with Merlin and Roma appearing too).
It's funny because the captain Britain corps. Is how I first learned about multiverses (I was a marvel kid, specifically Fantastiv Four)
Captain Britain and the Corps would be perfect right now since the MCU is wanting to lean into the Multiverse so much.
Captain Britain!!! Bring it!
They have a Black Knight/Blade vampire storyline just sitting there idle
I was really hoping that Black Knight would be like Blade's kid apprentice. Damn I wonder if the rewrites on Blade's script removed Black Knight entirely.
Black knight, Blade, Deadpool. Those 3 could’ve been the trio of darker films the MCU could use right about now.
Don’t forget Elsa Bloodstone and Werewolf by Night. MCU killed it with that short film and there’s been nothing since
It’s like anything else, they kinda lost their way and prob the fervor of the audience as well And they really don’t know how to shift back to medium stuff. Between post-endgame, covid, Disney+ oversaturation, kang, comic book movies everywhere bombing…they are doing all kinds of hairpulling and thinking about how to actually move forward at this point They had to pump brakes and put out fires I’m sure. I bet they don’t even want to hear the name Blade anymore
I mean idk who told them to introduce 500 new characters in the span of 2 years…Like, can you focus on the characters we already have?
In all honesty since it appears that they want to reduce a bit the number of products but for a quantity of reasons it is unrealistic they want to abandon characters they already introduced, I think it is more likely that new project will host more characters now than in the past. But let's see.
i think this is a good thing in the long term, I really do. Marvel ran with wayyyyy too many character introductions way to quickly. Let the superfluous ones fall off, and the storyline can start to get more manageable. The Eternals introduced NINE core heros, a handful of otherworldly villains, further expanded the celestials, added in the possibility for the Black Knight AND Blade. That's too much. EDIT Forgot about Eros and Pip, so that like what, THIRTEEN NEW HEROS in one flick? c'mon!
The only part of the eternals I liked
Exactly what I was going to post. I only stayed in the movie theater to see what would happen with his character. Oh well, I want him to move forward to the Jon Snow series, and maybe fix the end of *Game of Thrones*. Would have been cool, though, for him to have a Marvel movie.
> Oh well, I want him to move forward to the Jon Snow series, and maybe fix the end of Game of Thrones. That's also been cancelled today. It's not a good day to be Kit. Except for, you know, being rich, handsome and married to a gorgeous redhead of course.
No, you’re kidding! Whyyyy?
Apparently they didn't have a good story.
Just wasn't as good as Bran the Broken's.
🤦🏻♀️ I wish there was an emoji for smashing my head on a brick wall. Very funny, take my upvote.
Yeah and the man who called him that is the same man who came up with the idea for the Hunger Games. Clearly he's got good judgement.
Oh man this is not your day lol
Eh. Ayelet Zurer is back in *Daredevil*, so it’s one soul in exchange for another, I think. 🤣
I never understood why. Pretty inconsequential comic character. I think people were just hype about Jon Snow, not the Black Knight.
lol were at the point where fucking *America Chavez* has been featured as a primary character in a major film for the broader MCU. Black Knight is absolutely more prominent and consequential than many characters that have already been given a spotlight.
This is true most of phase 4 characters have been forgotten even the leads
Inconsequential? Had more appearances than most other characters they've introduced into the MCU from the comics. Long run leading the Gatherers Saga, which would make for an incredible storyline. Much more interesting than this multiverse saga has turned out to be.
Phase 4: The Bloat Phase with no payoffs
It’s wild how little has actually been achieved in P4 Even P2, that bought in Ant Man, set up Black Panther, destroyed SHIELD and made the Spin Off AoS work properly, set up the GotG for future Space stuff, as well as Power stone and Thanos, set up the Reality stone… They also oversaw the start of the Netflix shows, which blow all the news shows out of the water. It’s crazy how shit this has been post endgame. No wonder The Boys is getting so many viewers.
Sad to see the Eternals has basically been neglected
Especially after that cliffhanger.
I'm more upset about all of the things that happened during the movie apparently had zero effect on the rest of the MCU. A goddamn celestial was starting the process of destroying the Earth during its emergence. Luckily, the Eternals stopped it during the process, but there is still a giant half-born celestial sticking up out of the ocean. Then at the end of the movie, freaking Arishem shows up, whisks away the remaining 3 Eternals who hadn't left Earth yet, and vows to come back once he determines whether or not humans deserve to live or not. Arishem would probably make Thanos cower in fear, and yet none of the other MCU superheroes seem concerned about it in every movie released since Eternals. I think Feige would love to just hand-wave Eternals away as if it never existed in MCU canon, but the cat is out of the bag, in my opinion. Marvel keeps trying to find the *new* big thing when they have plenty of storylines to work with already. They don't necessarily have to make another *Eternals* movie (though I wouldn't mind), but they also shouldn't just ignore everything that happened. Arishem could totally show up in a different MCU movie and wreak havoc. They could also have a scene where other superheroes are seen monitoring the situation and at least talking about the looming threat that *still* exists since Arishem said he would return to Earth. /soapbox
Couldn’t they just say Eternals took place in a different multiverse? Are there really any hard hooks into Earth 616? The blip and Thanos could have happened there too.. it’ll also get them out of Black Knight/Eros/Blade in the “main” universe.
I mean, yes, they absolutely could do this, but would doing that not be equivalent to the hand-wave to get them out of *current* MCU canon? The execution of the multiverse, thus far, has been far from desirable. I like the idea of it, but if they are going to start using it as a crutch to get rid of less desirable characters, then I'm not a big fan.
I agree but at least it’s a plausible hand wave.. if they’re building to eventually “reset” after Avengers 5.. it will at least allow them to refocus like they say they are and stop introducing new characters, focusing on the established ones and connecting them.
That would then mean She Hulk took place in the same multiverse, and that causes a whole new set of problems
I don’t remember the She Hulk connection to Eternals.. was it Kingo? Could be a mutant in the main MCU maybe.. idk marvel is just spread too wide with too many characters without enough follow up/development of these introduced characters for the last 4 years.
Jen reads a newspaper that references Tiamut (the death Celestial) and a guy with claws in his hands (probably Wolverine).
It was bs. Just brought in styles to put ass in seats and make another lousy movie.
I was thinking of Arishem being all “I shall return to announce my judgement”…
Hey there was that one reference on a computer screen. And a Kingo movie poster. They’re practically at the centre of the multiverse saga /s.
And Kamala and Kamran mentioned Kingo's movies.
I liked the joke about how Kamala’s mom has a crush on “Kingo Sr.” when it’s actually just Kingo playing every member of his family lineage.
I totally loved that reference. I think even if we don't get Eternals 2 (maybe at a later date?) I'm sure they'll find a clever way to at least not leave those plot lines dangling. I mean, they're bringing back Sterns from the Incredible Hulk. That was thought to be a dropped plot for over a decade. But they're getting around to it.
A fully thought out and connected universe!
I mean, he's not an Eternal. But why they decided to connect him to Blade and then allegedly not put him in the Blade movie I have no idea (unless its a period film and not modern day). My only hope is that he gets right into Avengers somehow otherwise. Thats where he belongs
The Blade movie is another can of worms altogether. We know next to nothing about this film that is supposed to drop next November. Haven’t seen reports of filming since it was delayed due to the strikes. Feels like execs are falling asleep at the wheel here
Probably can't get a script together that's good enough to convince Ali to film.
I think we are already beyond this point. A new director was hired last year and allegedly the film script is in a good place now. The reason its taking so long to film now is scheduling, because the writers strike pushed it back further.
While what you're saying makes perfect sense, that can't be it. Logistics are boring, the reality needs to be spicy and scandalous.
Filming is taking a while because Mahershala keeps refusing to open his eyes during one of the scenes
In the comics they're connected because they're both British and at times on the same English super teams. But I feel like they probably are going to keep Blade an American like the Snipes version. So the connection seems weak.
Wesley Snipes Blade is the definitive version at this point.
Blade was a period film through many of its re-writes, but I read that the story is now being moved to modern day.
That's a bummer since he ages slowly his first intro movie being set in the 70s-80s would have been awesome then for the sequel or cameo in another movie he could pop up in modern times
I don’t even need an Eternals sequel, I’d just like them to show up every once in a while like every other character we have out there.
That’s where I’m at. Some cameo or reference to sustain
Almost everything is being neglected or left behind. Haven’t seen or heard about Shang-chi, the eternals, Thor, Guardians, Dr. Strange, or any catastrophic incident that happened in Phase 4. It used to be that one entry in the MCU created a huge wake in the next movies that came after it. When Iron Man 2 came out, Thor was mentioned. There used to be characters from previous movies. Now it’s all meaningless when none of these movies have an impact in the universe it resides in. Too many storylines with not enough pay off.
I said this here and in another thread, but I don’t necessarily need Shang-Chi, the Eternals, Thor, etc to have another full movie right now, I just want them to show up and interact with other people more often so we’re all reminded that they’re still out there.
Marvel clearly had no coherent plan for phase 4. All it did was throw idea after idea at the audience and tried to break new grounds through Disney Plus. That endeavor failed because of poor writing and a lack of oversight by Feigi. Who hinges their big bad on the Ant Man IP, which was established as a comedy franchise?
Not just ant man but also a disney plus show at least half the general audience didn't see
I don’t think this is entirely fair The obvious major problem that no one seems to be addressing - Chadwick Boseman’s death was tragic but also derailed their plans. They invested more time and patience into establishing Black Panther and Wakanda than anything else toward the lead up to End Game. Black Panther was going to be the lead character, taking the reins from Iron Man and Cap and then using Wakanda as the foundation for the MCU to be “focused” on. With his passing, they had no other actor willing to go full time that also had a solid presence. The only real option would have been Dr Strange, but Cumberbatch probably wasn’t willing to sacrifice 10 years of his life doing solely MCU stuff. Plus, Dr Strange would have made for a difficult character to position as the lead of the franchise as it is. Black Panther was the plan. His passing threw the entire plan out the window. They no longer had a strong leading character to push. Then Covid happened. Suddenly they didn’t know if movies were ever coming back. Don’t forget - we had over a year where restaurants and tons of service industry companies collapsed due to the pandemic So, they invested in D+ shows and kind of threw together what they could… but they already lost their plot with his passing Basically, they got shot in both kneecaps. I’m not saying this excuses every decision made, but we need to keep the reality of how it got to this point in mind. They had a planned replacement as the lead with Black Panther, they lost him to tragedy. Then Covid made everyone have to go on pause for over a year and reevaluate if movies were even going to be a thing anymore. The situation got fucked up, bad. It doesn’t excuse the fact that it’s so disjointed now, but… it explains it.
Even worse with that scoop of Eternals 2 getting either canned/ transformed or whatever. They should stick to their guns and work towards making the sequel click. Elements for success have been placed - Makkari, Druig - 2 of everyones fave eternals alongside Angelina friggin Jolie and Harry ‘Watermelon Sugar’ Styles set to lead. Just write a good story. since the first handled the bulk, make this one a complete ride and adventure with the essence of what made the first great intact.
It’s like they absolutely unlearned everything that made the MCU work in the first cycle. Build on what you’ve done, don’t expect immediate global domination especially with new properties, give people a reason to want to come back. It was such a DC “if we just put these cool guys all together why wouldn’t people come and watch?? Oh it didn’t work? Guess we throw it all in the bin and go do the same thing again with a different show runner”.
>Build on what you’ve done, This is what I think is driving people crazy with the current state of the MCU. I'm not saying I wouldn't want to one day see a Wonder Man show. I'm not saying "Who asked for this?". But why is DDC working on Wonderman before he's following up on anything Shang-Chi related when it's going to be 5 or 6 years since the original film? Why are we teasing Hercules at the end of Love and Thunder. If it's going to take 5 or 6 years, to get that Thor 5 film out to people to follow up on the plot thread. It just doesn't make sense.
Their planning or lacktherof shows. Carol is a prime example of this flaw and a big victim. Imagine intending to make her be 1/3 of the new trinity of the new saga but took 6 years to give her her sequel with two post credit scene appearances in between, when her sequel finally arrived they had her roll with people that aren’t the avengers. It shouldn’t take 6 years. They really should give focus to those on the table and ensure they connect with people like how characters from the previous saga did
I’m fine if they cancel Eternals 2. I don’t think anyone will miss it. But it needs a spiritual sequel, either blade or other wise to address events of the movie. Blade is more important than E2
Truth is neither is more important than the other, both can still happen - you just prefer Blade over Eternals 2, personally and that is ok. Blade is far from the right entry to be an Eternals spiritual sequel though, assuming it’s only cuz of Dane, the only thing eternal related about him is that he cameo-d in the movie and dated one. Even then, we dont even know if he’s showing up in Blade lol. When the news about the eternals sequel being canned there was an uproar about it. I wouldn’t pretend like there wasn’t to conclude nobody would miss it. Reports say Feige wanted to do it, Iger is the only blockage.
Don't get the Blade hype, that'd just be another movie they'd never touch again. And at this point, it doesn't seem it'll be a very good movie if they ever make it
I don't get the Blade hype either, it is almost impossible for it to be as good as Wesley Snipe's first Blade film. The bar is just that high. It has to compete with a rated R Blade, that was one of the first successful comic book films that wasn't Superman, Batman, or Spiderman. It came out at a time when comic book movies were usually really bad like Spawn.
Blade came out when the *only* successful comic book movies were Superman and Batman. It came out before X-Men or Spider-Man. It was literally the first successful Marvel Comic-based film.
Once Mahershala Ali finally announces he's dropping out, I'm sure we won't hear about Blade again for a decade. It couldn't be a worse time to bring Blade into things.
I agree. I mean, real life time is a thing. After these rounds of FF and X-men projects the reboot has to come sooner or later right? I’m sure Marvel will want to be able to have all their IPs play together and hard to do that when the OG Avengers are all dead/retired.
> Even worse with that scoop of Eternals 2 getting either canned/ transformed or whatever. They should stick to their guns and work towards making the sequel click. Between budget and marketing they will have to spend $350 million on Eternals 2. Given the performance of the first film there is a massive possibility of losing over a hundred million dollars on a sequel. Films need to make money.
everything has been neglected for the sake of shoving as many new characters down our throats as physically possible I've been saying that we didn't love Iron Man, Captain America, Hulk, Hawkeye, Black Widow, and Thor We fell in love with Tony, Steve, Bruce, Clint, Natasha...and Thor
Companies overcorrecting after public overreacting. Name a more iconic duo.
Almost everything has been neglected
Eternals is a big low point in the mcu. And given how bloated the mcu has gotten its good fat to trim. The characters were bland, none of them resonated with the public. It’s best to just ignore this junk movie and move on. “No one” wanted an eternals movie, “no one” liked the eternals movie and “no one” want more eternals
I think it had to be good if there was going to be more of it
Ya it didn’t do well so not a surprise . Sucks another lost story
They have some of the most bankable actors to play lead roles in the film. Getting those actors again together for a sequel (and potential appearances in other projects) is gonna be a scheduling nightmare. Imagine trying to book Angelina Jolie at the same time as Barry Keoghan, while also trying to get Gemma Chan, Harry Styles, etc. I highly doubt we’ll see any of the Eternals come back any time soon.
I think they would be best served as side kick/ team up / cameos in other projects and just to have nothing to show since the movie is kinda wild
Almost like the movie sucked and underperformed
Underperformed maybe but I don’t think it sucks. Regardless, it’s still canon in MCU and hasn’t been addressed
After reading comics for years I can say something being canon doesn’t really matter to ne. Story should always supersede “canon”. Hopefully they can work in harmony, but sometimes they don’t.
They screwed it up, this is the consequence.
It was pretty trash tho.. I think for those that had to try hard to find the movie “mid”, The Eternals might mark the beginning of the decline for the MCU.. I definitely feel like that was a turning point. For me, the best part of the eternals was the end credits scene
Dude…. What a let down. He literally works in antiquities. He could have met moon knight easily.
Yep if there’s a Moon Knight S2 that would be the best place for him to show up
Announcement on the same day the Jon Snow show was cancelled. Hard luck Kit.
It is no coincidence both of these stories came out at the same time. Both pieces of news came from Kit himself. He's currently on a press junket.
It sucks for Kit, but if I were a betting man I'd put $$ on Blade being cancelled. I doubt Eternals 2 happens, so his character is probably done for. The MCU got too big. The Infinity Saga worked because it focused on Iron Man, Cap, and Thor. Watch their stuff plus Avengers movies and you could piece together 90+% of what's happening. Now you have to watch Wandavision to understand why Wanda's going after kids that didn't exist in Dr. Strange.
Your last sentence is actually a fantastic point. I enjoyed Wandavision, but the MCU thrived when the films were the narrative focus. I thoroughly enjoyed Wandavision and especially enjoyed Loki, but I can see how all the television + film viewing, combined, would end up being too much for a lot of fans to keep up with. Further, the recent films have had very little to do the broader conflict while the shows have. This can create a perception that the films are the optional viewing.
Somebody else made this point that I agree with: Basically, I thought after Endgame, they’d still keep the narrative focused. E.g., Phase 4 - Doc Strange 2 - BP 2 - Cap Marv 2 - Ant-Man 3 - Spidey 3 - Avengers 5 (Low stakes, focusing on chemistry of newer Avengers) - New Character (e.g., Shang Chi) Phase 5 - Doc Strange 3 - BP 3 - Cap Marv 3 - New Character 2 (e.g., Shang Chi 2) - Newer Character (e.g., Eternals) - Avengers 6 (Farewell to Doc Strange, Spidey, BP (RIP Chadwick), Cap Marv) And so forth Like the phases would still follow a recognizable pattern without expanding (too) wildly
Marvel didn't need to expand so quickly, but the model you're suggesting here is actually *slower* than where phase 3 was. Where's Thor 4? Gotg 3? Deadpool 3? The original model worked because Marvel was focusing exclusively on the Avengers. If that's only what you want to see, then yes the model you've proposed is ideal. But the Avengers can't co-exist with the X-Men, Fantastic Four, and street-level heroes, it'd take forever to introduce them. I honestly think Marvel would've been fine with 3 movies and 2 shows spread relatively evenly throughout the year. They screwed themselves by releasing 9 projects essentially back-to-back in 2021 (though to be fair COVID did have a bit of a hand in that) - people got overwhelmed and opted to quit rather than play catch-up, especially since many of those projects weren't up to the very high standards set by Phase 3
I don’t think anyone would have objected to 4 being a “cooldown” after the great Thanos climax. This isn’t the economy, stories aren’t good when it’s just “more, more, more.”
Legit just stopped watching all marvel content when it felt like a job just to keep up with mediocre content
I watched *everything* day one IMAX. I returned to the cinema to watch most movies at least a second time. I gave Disney+ a good chance but after 1 episode of Secret Invasion I gave up. I didn’t even bother with Echo - it just had no reason to exist. I’ve said since the bloat was announced that people were insane when they said “just like comics, you just pick and choose what you want to see”. That works for the extremely niche hobby comics but can’t work for the MCU. As it turns out, you *do* have to watch everything and as a result people end up watching nothing.
Watch Endgame, skip Wandavision, and try to make sense of why Wanda is insane in Dr. Strange Multiverse of Madness. It is down right JARRING. She just gets the Darkhold (off screen), pretends to live on an apple farm, and goes insane when Dr. Strange visits her for help. Whoever is in charge of that has dropped the ball. The show on Disney+ should have fleshed out the MCU, not been integral to its story telling.
Lol I literally just got done doing this. I’m getting back into the MCU after a few years hiatus. Watched Eternals last night and Dr Strange a few hours ago.(I skipped Shang Chi but will come back to it) I really enjoyed Multiverse of Madness but clearly I was missing a huge chunk of context from a supposed ‘optional’ viewing. I mean I’ll probably end up going back and watching Wanda Vision, but it sucks that just watching the films in order isn’t enough to stay up to date this phase.
Strangely it seems that if you watch AOS season 4 you get a deeper understanding of the show Wandavision, Darkhold and why it effects wanda so much.
I watched Endgame THREE TIMES in theaters! It’s insane
I watched across the spider verse 5 times in theaters, superhero movies be like that.
Pretty much the same boat. One ep of SI was the last disney plus mcu i watched. Didnt see capt marvel 2 in theaters
I thought Echo was supposed to be good?
It was fine. That’s my entire review of the show in three words. To elaborate, it wasn’t great but it wasn’t horrible. The Daredevil fight was awesome. Kingpin was rad. The slightly more violent tone was welcomed. But the show also just kind of didn’t need to happen at all. It didn’t push any broader narrative any further. Echo is an interesting character in the MCU, even if she is quite different from her comic book counterpart, but I’m just not convinced that she needed her own show.
The plan after Endgame was supposed to be “no phases. Just individual stories for a while.” But that got muddied when there was pressure to announce that they were building to Secret Wars. So you have some projects that are self contained (Shang Chi, Eternals, Moon Knight) and some projects that need “homework” (MoM, Loki, Marvels) The result is of course, no one (on the internet) is happy and there’s just as many people complaining about things being isolated as there are people complaining about having to do homework. I think the reality is they were INCREDIBLY lucky to sustain everything up until Endgame. Somebody said “making a movie is hard. Making a great movie is almost impossible.”
To your last statement, I feel like luck did have a lot to do how well the Infinity Saga played out because this was the first time you have a huge cinematic universe and all the actors were mostly on the same page and there weren’t too many controversies. Compared to everything since Spider man FFH where we had a year of no movies or projects in the pandemic, huge delays In everything, Chadwick Boseman’s death, actor contracts expiring, Jonathan Majors’ troubles, Victoria Alonso getting fired, and the writer and actors strikes.
It’s not entertainment anymore that you could just occasionally go to theaters to keep up with. Now it’s homework
Honestly I think if *Blade* was gonna be canceled, it would've happened already, with all the turmoil around it.
This. And frankly, they're not going to give up on fucking Mahershala Ali. Not when the guy himself came to Marvel in the first place. What kind of message would Feige send to other big names who have yet to work in the MCU ?
The same measage he's been sending the entire time? Things will be done their way, not yours
Honestly this feels like part of the problem to me. Rather than making the movies that make sense they’ve gone ooh a famous person wants to play a certain character let’s try shoehorn that in somewhere.
What Marvel needs to do is to split stories. I feel like the cosmic side of MCU should introduce a crossover specific to the cosmic side while Earth stories should have a grounded crossover.
I think this is the reason they will probably never hit the same heights again, Pandora's box is already open, they've already significantly affected their main storyline with their TV shows. I highly doubt you'll get to watch the newest Avengers: Kang Dynasty without having to watch Loki first. And it's only going to get worse.
Yea it was pretty easy to understand if you’ve never seen many Marvel movies before that the big purple alien wanted the magical colorful stones to snap half the universe and The Avengers had to stop him. They better do a good ass job to basically explain the dude wearing green and purple wants to destroy and conquer the multiverse because….. reasons….
This has been my thoughts basically. There's too much going on now and too many characters but there's no current overarching plot bringing them all together like Infinity War and Endgame. It was supposed to be Kang but after Majors got let go, they more or less scrapped him. Also it's hard to keep up with because instead of just watching each movie to understand the plot, you now have to get Disney+ and watch all their shows to understand the references in the movies. I think Disney+ marvel shows were a mistake in the long term and they seemingly want to focus mostly on those over actual movies. The MCU is floundering and needs a reset badly.
The shows should all be street-ish level and not affecting the overarching film plot imo
Just like the Netflix shows were. They may reference NY being attacked in Avengers, but you didn’t need to see any of the Netflix shows to understand what was going on in the MCU movies.
Also I feel like a lot of people are forgetting that TV shows and movies require completely different levels of commitment. Wandavision is 6 hours, Loki is like 12. That's 3 or 6 movies worth of time you have to spend to get caught up, plus more if there are actual movies you have watch to be caught up as well, and that's just 2 of the shows they released. I didn't rewatch the entirety of released phase 3 movies when Endgame came out because I had already seen those movies in theaters and enjoyed them, I just watched a few that I wanted to and even then I didn't spend 12 hours doing it. I doubt the average person is interested in watching 18 or 20 hours worth of content they didn't care enough to watch on D+ when it first came out in order to be ready for the next movie. There's a reason Agents of Shield reacted to the movies but it didn't work the other way around.
> Now you have to watch Wandavision to understand why Wanda's going after kids that didn't exist in Dr. Strange. Yep, for casual movie fans who didn't see Wandavision, Wanda just goes from badass hero in Endgame who peacefully mourns Vision on the lake shore with Hawkeye, to total insane lunatic in Dr. Strange Multiverse of Madness for no apparent reason. That disconnect turns off casual viewers. It will be the same when they just up and have Hulk's son in a movie, or She-Hulk just walks into a room. Nevermind that Hulk's son actually just appeared in She-Hulk, completely unexplained for the people that actually watched She-Hulk! The casual viewer will be like, who the fuck are these characters and where did they come from? That is to say nothing of G'iah and her extensive list of powers, Moon Knight's schizophrenia, or Loki coming back with Sylvie, who is also a Loki. For casuals, there is no hope to make sense of all of the Disney+ content, along with the forgotten one off post credit scenes from 6 years ago.
I feel like they’re just moving forward to the Secret War reset now and aren’t worried about continuing any of the lower performers.
Why are some people so confident that Secret Wars will result in a franchise reboot? Have you read something I haven't?
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It really wasn't. It was the end of the Ultimate universe and that's it. 616 continued as if nothing happened. Miles and his family and friends got moved (and ressurected for some) to 616 cause he gave a rotten sandwich to Molecule Man and that was pretty much the only change to 616. Even had Doom continue his shenanigans not long after, despite Secret Wars having a good ending for him. And it was supposed to be a whole new multiverse, but it wasn't and existing alternate universes were still existing (like the Spider-Gwen one for instance, or the Old Man Logan one) Hickman intended it to be a reboot, but Marvel clearly never played the game.
Because honestly they should. By the time Secret Wars releases, MCU will be going for nearly 20 years. It has so many entries that it's difficult to attract new viewers and it's getting hard to keep up for the old viewers. And most of their iconic heroes are either retired or will retire soon.
Soft reboot, but not complete reboot. But that aside. I refuse to believe that Eternals' post-credit scene wouldn't pay off before Secret Wars.
Cause there’s no X-Men or Fantastic Four in the main MCU universe so the logical thing to do would be to use this variant stuff they’ve been building for years to reset/unify the timeline and include them. The alternatives are both start now after the Avengers or we find out they’ve been hiding/out-of-commission. Both alternatives make them feel less special.
>Why are some people so confident that Secret Wars will result in a franchise reboot? That's pretty much what the most recent Secret Wars in the comic was.
The Secret Wars comic ended with the Marvel Multiverse being destroyed and Mr. Fantastic and Franklin Richards rebuilding the multiverse. Assuming something similar happens in Avengers 6, the multiverse is going to be reset, and if Marvel is smart they'll do a soft reboot. It allows them to recast heroes to keep them in the MCU longer, bring back dead/retired heroes without ruining their original story, etc
Because: - People don't like the direction of the MCU - People want Iron Man and Cap back without harming the Endgame events - Secret Wars uses the "merging timelines" plotlines which if retooled, can work as a way for a reboot - XMen and F4 inclusion
I’d be pissed if I was him
Imagine the entire Eternals cast. if the scoops about the sequel being canned are true, Salma Hayek and Don Lee are never returning. Despite the eternals being, eternals lmao I think it’s not completely over for Kit as Dane, it’s just gonna take a real while for him to come back, until they wrap up the saga. An absolute mess if you ask me.
They shelved his GOT spin off too
Dang that’s disappointing.
Goddamn it that was the only one that could Even try to fix the mess that show created in its last season. They really are handicapping that series by letting season 8 stand as the ending of the story. Any prequel still results in Jon stabbing Dany, through their own baby.... Ugh I hate hate hate it
I think I'd be disappointed but not pissed. The likelihood of Eternals 2 happening is low and the Blade movie has gone through several directors and rewrites. Probably better just to move on and get other jobs.
I'm not surprised. Everything released out of order, and nothing has referenced the absolute world-altering events in Eternals
I honestly think they just need to stop introducing all these extra characters. At this point they're just throwing as many references to the comics in as they can without stopping to ask if it actually adds to the story. The Infinity saga worked because it fundamentally focused on a core group. Yes other heroes had their moments, but the main plot always came back to Stark, Thor, Cap, and Hulk. The main Avengers were immediately identifiable. Now I couldn't even tell you who the main cast is supposed to be. I don't think the studio even knows.
We need the black knight 😥🛡️🗡️
People are just airing their takes in this thread so here's mine, where is the team up movie? I get a lot of the mistakes weren't obvious in hindsight but this one makes no sense to me because the team ups were the effin payoff of doing the MCU It took 4 years and 5 movies to get to the Avengers and from there the MCU was on a good path despite any stinkers that would come.. because the path was fundamentally compelling. We had our core heroes. How are we much further along than that post Endgame, with all the lessons of the past 2 decades learned, but with no clarity on this, and all we really know is Kang will matter?... Am I missing something as a casual?
My guess is that the honest truth is that the reasons are logistical. Audiences now expect an Avengers movie to be epic in scale. The movie could be fantastic but if it deals with a threat that's too small in scale, a large portion of the casual audience will complain that "even the Avengers suck now". Because they had expectations and the movie didn't meet them. So that means an Avengers movie would need to be like Infinity War or Endgame, and that means a large ensemble cast. And a large ensemble cast is doable if it's a fresh IP where you cast whoever's available, but in a long-running franchise you can't just cast whoever's available; you have to cast the established actors who have been playing the roles for years. And that means you have to somehow schedule the movie in such a way that the shoot takes place during a time window when all of these actors are available at the same time. And scheduling that is a fucking nightmare. Any Dungeons & Dragons DM can tell you that it's a nightmare finding a night of the week where 5 specific regular-ass people are all available. How much more complicated when you need a couple dozen in-demand superstars in the same place at the same time for several weeks? And that's not even to *mention* the money. Back in Phase One if you hired an actor to do "an Avengers movie", most actors wouldn't even know what that *meant*. But NOW? After Endgame? Each and every actor will know that this movie should make at least a billion dollars and will demand three or four times their usual asking price because they know the budget is there. So at this point, making an Avengers movie is extremely complicated and extremely expensive. And so while they're waiting for the scriptwriters and directors to come up with a plan for an Avengers movie that's possible to film sometime this century, Marvel is wondering whether maybe audiences wouldn't perhaps like to see a *different* teamup movie with *lower, more manageable* audience expectations about the cast size and *more reasonable* talent budget? A teamup movie like Thunderbolts? And if that works then maybe they can be a new team for a new saga.
Just like the other 15+ characters they shoved into every property the last few years. Why even have blade talk to him in that post credit scene if they arent going to put him in the blade movie? Why? Because there is no vision anymore. Feigi has checked out.
They really said "Throw everything at the wall and see what sticks", and ... not that much did. They did too much, too quickly, and not well.
Shang Chi stuck and we haven't heard about him in 3 years lol.
Shang-Chi was probably my favorite movie of Phase 4 followed by No Way Home. I really hope they get back to it.
Sure, he's stuck. But that's where the second part comes in - too many new characters, and not enough planning. Yeah, it makes no sense that they've done so little with him
This is so infuriating. Especially with his post credits scene, I was excited to see him interact with the other established avengers. And just…nothing
Yeah even one of the persons at Marvel confirmed recently that there was indeed a mandate to the studio from the higher ups that they had to release as much content as possible. now that mandate is gone, but that mandate really did alot of harm to the brand.
Yeah, they treated it like an assembly line, and now they have to win people's trust bad. It's a problem of Disney's own making.
Loki, wandavision, GOTG, Shang chi, NWH all huge hits.
How many of those have involved new characters? Just Shang Chi. For every successful character, they have five that didn't do well, in many different ways. People love Iman Vellani's Kamala (and for good reason), but both of projects she's appeared in so far have been flops. What's the takeaway there?
To be fair, everything that could’ve delayed the Blade movie seems to have happened at some point. It’s like the whole production is cursed or something.
Blade movie production always trying to ice-skate uphill
Hahahahahahhaah thanks for making my day.
I think its less that Feige checked out, but more that he's spread too thin, so he can't oversee everything to the same extent as he used to back in the day. plus they had a mandate that they had to release as many films and shows annually so they can have new Marvel content every other month, i mean having to go from 3 movies a year to 9-6 projects a year, i don't see how you are going to be able to keep all of that under check in the same way you did before.
What happened to Shang-Chi? What's American Chavez been up to ? Damn it would be nice to have a couple of Avengers movies....
Dude what has sam Wilson been up to its been three years where the hell is captain America
Why even have Scorpion talk in Homecoming post credit scene if they aren't going to put him in Spider-Man FFH and NWH ? (I agree with the current MCU being a fucking mess, but it's not a new thing to have post credit scenes that lead to fucking nothing lmao)
The MCU peaked at Endgame and it's not gonna get better. That's just the truth. I'll be surprised if Blade even happens. Mahershala is probably gonna check out of that eventually. If Daredevil and Deadpool don't perform well, the MCU is done. Nobody is gonna care about Fantastic Four and the X-Men. They focused so much on shit that people don't care about, and they keep doubling down on it. And yes before some smart-ass says it, people don't care about the current state of the MCU. You know, because almost everything outside of a few projects has made any traction. Nobody cares about these new characters or anything going on. They need a reset or they need to bring people back with some nostalgia because I have no clue what they're doing or what anything is leading to.
Unfortunately I agree. So much they could do but I don't see it happening.
If the modern star wars is still going then marvel will be fine. Apparently back to back stinkers is fine for Disney.
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One of the new characters in the MCU that could have been actually interesting and they made him an extra in Eternals and then sidelined him completely.
Is anything in the works about anything people care about lol
Daredevil Born Again
Daredevil, Deadpool and Fantastic 4 are the only things I'm actively excited for. I'll see Brave New World and Thunderbolts because why not. Don't really care about anything else
Thing is, I guess the large public doesn't give a f about his character.
He didn't do anything , boring professor guy
He knows nothing……
He dun wanneh
Sersi's 'is queen
That's a bummer. Would love to see him become Black Knight.
He could if they do a Midnight Suns
This sucks. There should have been a sequel by now.
You know nothing, Jon Snow
Shit man, seeing the Ebony Blade was one of my favorite post-credits scenes. I want to see him wield it!
Hollywood, put a sword in this man’s hands already!
I want the black knight Like marvel get your shit together, you can have the Ethernals characters on other films
It’s actually funny to think about. You know how in Loki Season 2, they were talking about the overarching problem being that too many branches were being created infinitely on top of each other? That’s basically what happened with the MCU. Every project spawns another project or two, on top of the original, and it just doesn’t stop.
That's fine tbh.
This is what happens when quantity outweighs quality.
He also said that the Jon Snow series won't happen, wtf is happening?
Marvel dropped the ball majorly with their Game of Thrones alumni.
Marvel really fucked up phase 4.
Sounds exactly like someone who signed a NDA would say...
You're gonna be in Blade, stop lying
So as of this point no Black Knight, No Captain Britain and that means no Otherworld. RIP Magic sword guys. And how freaking hard is it to make a bloody Blade movie? Good grief! Daywalker kills other Vamps. Bing Bang Boom Done! You aren't making high brow critically acclaimed academy awards stuff here
Post Endgame, I continue to be at a complete loss as to how the Disney braintrust is deciding which properties the audience actually wants to see adapted.
Thats what happens when you don’t have a plan. Like Star Wars Sequel Trilogy 😂
Christ. I'm REALLY not a fan of their current strategy of "introduce a shit ton of new characters and not do anything with them for years". If this were anything like phase 1 both Shang-Chi and Sam Wilson would've gotten two movies each by now.