Getting husked seems analogous to any other form of zombie virus, and zombies are purely organic and often stronger than normal Humans because the zombie is no longer limiting itself. Our brains limit a lot of things that we could possibly do, but that might kill or injure us. On the whole, one on one a husk would easily beat a Human. Maybe easily beat a single soldier who isn’t Shepard.
I can’t disagree but wow does it feel wrong to call the chaff enemy stronger than the average solider. I get that it is because of what we see them do in cutscenes to normal people and soldiers but again we just kill them instantly so it’s hard to accept.
I mean, part of it is game mechanics being dissonant from what the story is telling us. Husks just straight up eviscerate people and don’t stop when injured the way still living people do. There was one Reaper ship on Menae, like just on the surface, and the Turians were losing because they couldn’t keep up with the onslaught of husks. And then they turn dead bodies into more husks.
Mechanically, sure you can one tap a husk if you’re playing well. But how many normal soldiers are going to have that good of aim under that level of stress? They’ll aim for center mass, and the husk will keep coming.
I mean in a sort of "toss them in an empty room with no gear" measure of strength I agree the husk is likely winning against most soldiers. I think in actual combat it is flipped and a typical soldier is more than a match for a husk (biotic ones especially so.) Husks are there as a quick use of the bodies of the fallen and are more psyhological warfare and distraction than highly combat effective. They are legitimately dangerous in close quarters so you can't completely ignore them, but outside of that they aren't anything special. The main threat is that husks almost always heavily outnumber their opposition.
Morinth should have been an exceptionally powerful Banshee, since most of the other Banshees we met were presumably made from captured Ardat Yakshi nuns, who of course were never taught combat biotics and discouraged or if not outright banned from practicing them on their own, and since Ardat Yakshi are usually taken to monestaries as soon as their condition is usually detected with the onset of puberty, most of them never had much time to practice. (The codex explains the AY condition is impossible to detect in its dormant state in an asari's childhood, but only with the onset of adolescence.)
Morinth on the other hand has spent centuries not only practicing and honing her biotic powers and combat abilities, but also growing even more powerful every time she mates and kills. She even managed to corrupt an entire asari town into her own personal cult, and convince its inhabitants to give her her daughters as sacrifices. She's been doing all this for so long she can match her Justicar matriarch mother, to the point of a biotic stalemate.
> Shepard is a cybernetically enhanced individual.
Correction: Shepard is an individual with cybernetically enhanced body, but with no cybernetic parts in their brain. This is completely clear and multiple-times-made statement in ME2. Lazarus project could be completed much faster if its scientists would be allowed to replace damaged organic tissue in Shepard body in parts which could anyhow change Shepard's personality - but it was not allowed. Which was a major reason of why it took two years to revive Shepard.
Further, this explains why Shepard remains (if barely) alive during sufficiently high-EMS ME3 Destroy ending: cybernetic implants in his body are no doubt disabled, but his mind suffers no damage and his body is suffuciently organic to keep functioning despite cybernetic parts turned off.
First of all, what an odd distinction you are attempting to make.
Secondly, the lazarus project cutscene at the beginning of ME2 shows all their implant locations which includes the brain.
Reasonable points both, but both ultimately not true.
- 1st, not odd at all; we _know_ what can happen when cybernetic implants are used to alter a brain: remember how Saren told Shepard, in their final encounter in ME1, how Sovereign implanted him and how Saren's resolve was strengthered as a result? That's brain-implants for you. They change a person's behaviour, opinions, views, beliefs. They mess with a person's _mind_, man. Shepard? Was specifically revived with the goal to not alter Shepard's personality in any way. Can see nothing odd about this distinction; it's quite important one, too.
- 2nd, that cutscene also shows needles injected - and then removed. I see nothing which would make me think other artificial objects inserted - would not be the same thing: i.e., temporary insertions designed to facilitate living tissue's revival and repair. Brain cells too, of course. After all, all them Shepard's cells were dead and frozen, you know? Gotta _do_ something to bring them back to living state. Hardly can do it "remotely", me thinks.
Cheers!
Saren's last "upgrade" was a control chip. Saren was beginning to question everything and Sovereign couldn't allow that. Also, not all brain implants are control chips... i.e. Neuralink. Biotic amps are brain implants too. Brain implants perfectly explain why you can go into ME2 with a ME1 soldier and play as an adept. The lazarus brain implants weren't for control purposes. They were for revival and enhancement.
Obviously, sure - non-"indoctrinating" brain implants exist too. But we were talking about person-altering ones in the 1st place, so i meant those. Biotic amps, hearing aid, ocular flashbangs, etc - those are just irrelevant to the subject we were discussing. Sure, these exist too.
Our cool little convo here started with you disagreeing with me calling Shep a cybernetically enhanced individual based on the fact Shep doesn't have some kind of control chip in his brain... Which seems weird, but fun.
Ain't nothing weird, to me.
Say, maybe it's because we have different understanding of the "individual" word? And/or "person" word? When i say those two words, i don't mean one's body, i only mean one's personality. Perhaps you mean _both_ when you say those words?
To me, it's because "individual" and "person" remains the same no matter if you'd cut 'em a limb, or replace their liver with some bionic / artificial one, or say implant an ocular flashbang into their skill, like Cerberus does to its late personnel. All such body alterations, even brain implants like bio-amps, - they don't make that "individual" and "person" to become any different, in my understanding of things. But install something like what Saren was "enhanced" with - anything which changes how their brain processes / stores information, - and yep, it's not the same "individual" and not the same "person" anymore, to me.
It's kinda a bit controversial i recon, but that's how i see it and that's why i responded the ways i did. :)
> Since husks are cybernetically enhanced individuals, It got me wondering just how physically powerful an individual husk would actually be relative to an organic.
Variable.
It depends on original organic's body physical strength. Physically weak individuals - become stronger after turned into husks; sufficiently strong ones (like James in ME3) - most likely become physically weaker.
Why?
Because organic bodies (human bodies as well as other species' bodies) feature wildly different amount of muscle strength, based on genetic variability, amount (or lack of) and duration of regular training, possibly performance-boosting drugs used, etc; while husks' physical strength is based on their cybernetic parts - "servo-motors", if you will. Which is the same for all husks, at least in same "generation / model" of husks. If memory serves, during Horizon mission in ME2 (or was it during Reaper IFF mission?) - we're told how "those" husks are stronger than ones we encountered in ME1.
How do we know husks don't use "organic muscle power"? Two sources: Codex entry about husks, which states that during conversion to a husk, organic body is harvested for useful matherials to create cybernetic parts, and muscle tissue is one prime source for such harvesting, because muscles make high percentage of a body's total mass but not required for body's core functions. And 2nd, we know simply from how husks look: did you ever see a husk with any visibly large (thick) muscles in its body? I didn't. :)
Getting husked seems analogous to any other form of zombie virus, and zombies are purely organic and often stronger than normal Humans because the zombie is no longer limiting itself. Our brains limit a lot of things that we could possibly do, but that might kill or injure us. On the whole, one on one a husk would easily beat a Human. Maybe easily beat a single soldier who isn’t Shepard.
I can’t disagree but wow does it feel wrong to call the chaff enemy stronger than the average solider. I get that it is because of what we see them do in cutscenes to normal people and soldiers but again we just kill them instantly so it’s hard to accept.
I mean, part of it is game mechanics being dissonant from what the story is telling us. Husks just straight up eviscerate people and don’t stop when injured the way still living people do. There was one Reaper ship on Menae, like just on the surface, and the Turians were losing because they couldn’t keep up with the onslaught of husks. And then they turn dead bodies into more husks. Mechanically, sure you can one tap a husk if you’re playing well. But how many normal soldiers are going to have that good of aim under that level of stress? They’ll aim for center mass, and the husk will keep coming.
I mean in a sort of "toss them in an empty room with no gear" measure of strength I agree the husk is likely winning against most soldiers. I think in actual combat it is flipped and a typical soldier is more than a match for a husk (biotic ones especially so.) Husks are there as a quick use of the bodies of the fallen and are more psyhological warfare and distraction than highly combat effective. They are legitimately dangerous in close quarters so you can't completely ignore them, but outside of that they aren't anything special. The main threat is that husks almost always heavily outnumber their opposition.
Morinth should have been an exceptionally powerful Banshee, since most of the other Banshees we met were presumably made from captured Ardat Yakshi nuns, who of course were never taught combat biotics and discouraged or if not outright banned from practicing them on their own, and since Ardat Yakshi are usually taken to monestaries as soon as their condition is usually detected with the onset of puberty, most of them never had much time to practice. (The codex explains the AY condition is impossible to detect in its dormant state in an asari's childhood, but only with the onset of adolescence.) Morinth on the other hand has spent centuries not only practicing and honing her biotic powers and combat abilities, but also growing even more powerful every time she mates and kills. She even managed to corrupt an entire asari town into her own personal cult, and convince its inhabitants to give her her daughters as sacrifices. She's been doing all this for so long she can match her Justicar matriarch mother, to the point of a biotic stalemate.
roughly one husk-power
I disagree with calling a husk an individiual. Shepard is a cybernetically enhanced individual. Husks are more like cybernetic drones.
> Shepard is a cybernetically enhanced individual. Correction: Shepard is an individual with cybernetically enhanced body, but with no cybernetic parts in their brain. This is completely clear and multiple-times-made statement in ME2. Lazarus project could be completed much faster if its scientists would be allowed to replace damaged organic tissue in Shepard body in parts which could anyhow change Shepard's personality - but it was not allowed. Which was a major reason of why it took two years to revive Shepard. Further, this explains why Shepard remains (if barely) alive during sufficiently high-EMS ME3 Destroy ending: cybernetic implants in his body are no doubt disabled, but his mind suffers no damage and his body is suffuciently organic to keep functioning despite cybernetic parts turned off.
First of all, what an odd distinction you are attempting to make. Secondly, the lazarus project cutscene at the beginning of ME2 shows all their implant locations which includes the brain.
Reasonable points both, but both ultimately not true. - 1st, not odd at all; we _know_ what can happen when cybernetic implants are used to alter a brain: remember how Saren told Shepard, in their final encounter in ME1, how Sovereign implanted him and how Saren's resolve was strengthered as a result? That's brain-implants for you. They change a person's behaviour, opinions, views, beliefs. They mess with a person's _mind_, man. Shepard? Was specifically revived with the goal to not alter Shepard's personality in any way. Can see nothing odd about this distinction; it's quite important one, too. - 2nd, that cutscene also shows needles injected - and then removed. I see nothing which would make me think other artificial objects inserted - would not be the same thing: i.e., temporary insertions designed to facilitate living tissue's revival and repair. Brain cells too, of course. After all, all them Shepard's cells were dead and frozen, you know? Gotta _do_ something to bring them back to living state. Hardly can do it "remotely", me thinks. Cheers!
Saren's last "upgrade" was a control chip. Saren was beginning to question everything and Sovereign couldn't allow that. Also, not all brain implants are control chips... i.e. Neuralink. Biotic amps are brain implants too. Brain implants perfectly explain why you can go into ME2 with a ME1 soldier and play as an adept. The lazarus brain implants weren't for control purposes. They were for revival and enhancement.
Obviously, sure - non-"indoctrinating" brain implants exist too. But we were talking about person-altering ones in the 1st place, so i meant those. Biotic amps, hearing aid, ocular flashbangs, etc - those are just irrelevant to the subject we were discussing. Sure, these exist too.
Our cool little convo here started with you disagreeing with me calling Shep a cybernetically enhanced individual based on the fact Shep doesn't have some kind of control chip in his brain... Which seems weird, but fun.
Ain't nothing weird, to me. Say, maybe it's because we have different understanding of the "individual" word? And/or "person" word? When i say those two words, i don't mean one's body, i only mean one's personality. Perhaps you mean _both_ when you say those words? To me, it's because "individual" and "person" remains the same no matter if you'd cut 'em a limb, or replace their liver with some bionic / artificial one, or say implant an ocular flashbang into their skill, like Cerberus does to its late personnel. All such body alterations, even brain implants like bio-amps, - they don't make that "individual" and "person" to become any different, in my understanding of things. But install something like what Saren was "enhanced" with - anything which changes how their brain processes / stores information, - and yep, it's not the same "individual" and not the same "person" anymore, to me. It's kinda a bit controversial i recon, but that's how i see it and that's why i responded the ways i did. :)
> Since husks are cybernetically enhanced individuals, It got me wondering just how physically powerful an individual husk would actually be relative to an organic. Variable. It depends on original organic's body physical strength. Physically weak individuals - become stronger after turned into husks; sufficiently strong ones (like James in ME3) - most likely become physically weaker. Why? Because organic bodies (human bodies as well as other species' bodies) feature wildly different amount of muscle strength, based on genetic variability, amount (or lack of) and duration of regular training, possibly performance-boosting drugs used, etc; while husks' physical strength is based on their cybernetic parts - "servo-motors", if you will. Which is the same for all husks, at least in same "generation / model" of husks. If memory serves, during Horizon mission in ME2 (or was it during Reaper IFF mission?) - we're told how "those" husks are stronger than ones we encountered in ME1. How do we know husks don't use "organic muscle power"? Two sources: Codex entry about husks, which states that during conversion to a husk, organic body is harvested for useful matherials to create cybernetic parts, and muscle tissue is one prime source for such harvesting, because muscles make high percentage of a body's total mass but not required for body's core functions. And 2nd, we know simply from how husks look: did you ever see a husk with any visibly large (thick) muscles in its body? I didn't. :)