Both last of us 2 and suicide squad had major shitstorm for this, understandably so, since in both case there were so many more options in how to do this.
Though for last of us 2, I'd say the shitstorm was overshadowed by the whole "trans character" one.
i 100% heard people crying who bought a game called "suicide squad kill the justice league" that the justice league is killed In a comical way like the suicide squad does
No, it was because it was awful. Like, genuinely one of the worst stories I’ve seen in gaming in years, and that’s not mentioning how awful the game feels.
You haven't heard complaints because they didn't kill the protagonist in GTA4. Niko was the protagonist, and in one of the cut scenes with Jimmy on life invader, Niko's profile had an update, showing he was alive. Trevor killed *Johnny* in GTA5. Johnny was a support character in GTA4, not the protagonist.
I felt a little mad at first, but also him and his girlfriend falling back into their meth habit had me like, "Well, you had your chance, and you blew it after all that hard work."
It made sense considering he was notoriously a bad judge of character.
I thought I was taking crazy pills for a second. I never played Lost and the Damned, so I was trying to remember killing CJ or Claude or Nico or Tommy Vercetti... Or even what's his name from the Ballad of Gay Tony who wasn't Gay Tony? (*Quick Google*) Uh... Luis, I guess.
Anyway, maybe some people out there love Johnny, but I've literally never heard anyone express an opinion about him.
Its truly a reddit moment when you’re 4 comment levels deep into gaining an information the post was about but hasn’t disclosed, and the comment that finally gives that information is like “not sure if you are trolling or being serious” like its basic assumed knowledge for every human being. Yeah sure I too have gta 4 in my Steam library, but have I actually played it? No, of course not, like the other 90 unplayed games
Eh, a lot of people were mad but like it’s been long enough that most stopped caring, plus Trevor being one of three protagonists kinda helps with that
i do. Tlad was such a good time, especially with that awesome synergy with the two other gta iv's. I really liked Johnny and im dissapointed that his arc ends with him staying with that dumb hoe, becoming a junkie and dying to trevor without a fight.
Wait what previous protag did gta v kill off?
The only character deaths i can think of were current character who died because story, not just some unceremonious send-off
I think it was more of a vehicle to introduce the player to how unhinged and prone to shocking bouts of violence Trevor is, and it worked in that respect.
Found it shocking but wasn't that gutted for Johnny. TLAD was the weaker of the DLC's for GTA IV in my opinion. If it was Luis i would have been pissed.
Weaker?? OK so I've been wanting to play it since I was like 10 but never beat gta 4 to play the dlc but I rly think the theme of bikers is so cool and I hope the dlc is good
1) he was always an addict biker, so he didnt suddenly go full meth head, he was allways one, if im not mistaken he starts the Lost and Damned by getting out of rehab
2) i wouldnt call him a full blown protag, he was the lead in a dlc side story and thats it, now if Trevor had curb stomped Niko that would be a whole other story, the folks that have a problem with Trevor wouldnt really point to Johnny as the reason why like the other examples here
>he was always an addict biker
He was never an addict and actively didn't like drug use.
>if im not mistaken he starts the Lost and Damned by getting out of rehab
You are mistaken, that was the president of the Lost MC and main antagonist, Billy Grey.
Johnny was supposed to get his GF clean at the end. Instead, he let her drag him down into the gutter. He was always a really bad judge of character and not very strong-willed. It made sense what happened to him despite how I wish he could've just been better.
As someone who never played 4 but did play 5, I enjoyed Trevor’s introduction. Still a good scene for presenting a psycho character I’d say, don’t know how different I’d feel if I knew the guy he stomped, but seeing as how no one else has ever really mentioned it, I don’t think it’s as big a deal.
I’ve never seen a game hit such a nerve with people that they ruminate on it for years. I suppose it’s a testament to how much tlou made us like Joel that to this day people are still angry about it. I personally love tlou 2, but I understand why people don’t like it, it’s a very dour and depressing story. If we’re being honest though, Joel absolutely deserved to die based on what he did to the fireflies, I think people just have a hard time seeing multiple perspectives.
In all fairness i think very few people deserve a different fate if we judge them based on what joel did. Killing for resouces territory and to guarantee your own safety seems to be the daily life in that world, especially since the fireflies themselves arent exactly saints
That being said, i think the anger for tlou2 isnt too different from the anger people feel on the disney star wars trilogy, or possibly in the future: the suicide squad game.
Big fanbase, absolute shit handling of beloved characters and the narrative, killing potential for future story that the fans would want to see
I wouldn't have gotten half as mad if his death wasn't so dumb, and if the whole revenge plot didn't end in >! NOTHING!< , like seriously >! Ellie everything she had behind to go on revenge, and then just gave up? The plot just goes on a circle back to where it started !<
Eh, see that didn't bother me. What did bother me was that they wrote themselves into a corner where they didn't know how to actually resolve the threads, so they whipped out the tropiest of tropes and introduced a new super duper evil revolver spinning trans-kid smacking übervillain instead.
It's a shit trope on the best of days, but it's an absolute cop-out when you're trying to tell a story about two otherwise decent groups who are simply fighting due to conflicting interests. Nothing got resolved between the main two factions. We had all this build-up, followed by some headscratching, introduction of Doctor Evil, and then the story ends abruptly while the audience is distracted. It ends without *actually saying anything*.
What? The Fireflies were a paramilitary terrorist group that were willing to murder a 14 year old girl so they could control the new world? You really think they were about to just start handing out the vaccine they THINK they might be able to create out of the goodness of their hearts? Not to mention it seemed entirely likely they were about to go back on their deal with Joel and just throw him out without any of his gear which is basically a death sentence.
Do you blame them for holding on to the hope that a cure could be made? Ellie is a very special case, she’s the only immune person we know of in the whole series. I’m sure there are tons of groups out there that have been looking for something similar for 20 years, and they finally found some hope in Ellie. In a world where killing is a normal part of life, sacrificing one girl to possibly make a cure to the thing that caused the fall of humanity is not unreasonable. The only reason you feel that way is because we are attached to the characters we play as, but to everyone else Joel ruined that hope, killed a ton of people, and effectively dissolved the fireflies.
I don't really know the full rundown of how the fireflies are or exactly what joel did to them, but your comment doesn't address any of the points that comment made.
The fireflies are a rebel (terrorist) organization in TLOU who goes against the government, they find Ellie and discover she is immune, hire Joel to take her across America to help discover a cure. In the end Joel discovers They want to kill and dissect her because apparently her fungus mutated and made her immune. Joel goes on a papa-bear rampage and has the coolest sequence of mowing down around a hundred guards to rescue her. He chooses not to tell Ellie they planned to kill her nor tell her he killed a fuckton of people
More a testament to how much tlou2 made me hate Abby, to the point where I’d still choose to kill her even after playing the rest of the game. It’s annoying that they shoehorned you in to letting her go free.
Like, fine, the moral of the story is violence accomplishes nothing but triggering more violence. But just let us choose and have a bad ending then.
It's because of Druckman's directing.
A few changes likes ("Good." Was the worst line in the game.), and changing several scenes (you need to build sympathy for the new character *before* killing the old character, and it would have been significantly better.
I just feel like Ellie wouldn’t have completely given up everything for revenge. It doesn’t fit her character imo. Especially once she finally has some semblance of fulfillment. A kid, a wife, a house, and finally peace. On top of that, after everything she goes through to kill Abby, she doesn’t follow through?! Again, doesn’t fit her. I remember finishing the story and audibly saying what the fuck? Joel, I understand. Ellie’s character arc, I do not.
I liked the dlc and was happy to see him return, but was not gutted when he was brutally murdered by Trevor. I actually kinda thought the shock of him dying so fast was kinda funny.
What? Solid didn't die until the second to last game, he was the protagonist for almost all of them, Naked was another major character and he died in the same game. Venom died in the very first game, and Raiden just chills out.
So if by "every few games" you mean once, maybe twice if you consider prequels, then yes
You can kill off a beloved protag but you better handle it well.
I don't play GTA, but the last of us and even more so suicide squad did not. And it was an even bigger kick in the nuts because that was the last cameo of the Batman I grew up with
R.i.p mr conroy
people are speculating that it wasn’t the real justice league but clones made by the villain that the suicide squad killed but regardless it was a really shitty way to kill off both a beloved character and a shitty way to send off conroy
I mean tbf Mafia 1 literally ends with the MC dying so it isn’t really a gut punch or a surprise.
But they handled his killers so well in the second game that you come to like them so you’re technically right…?
Ya know in the years of gta 5 being out I’ve never seen anyone give a single fuck about Trevor killing Johnny. Most people don’t even know he was a protag considering he was a short dlc one.
I think killing Tommy in Mafia II was handled greatly. They didn't have to do it, but it felt kinda natural imo.
Didn't play Mafia III far enough make a call here, but I got really depressed when I saw my boy Vito was just a symbol on the map.
You also play as her >!For the last section going into the ending. The game is very much about her emotional journey!<
Maybe OP dropped the game >!when they first had to play an Abbie section!< and just doesn't know?
Ellie letting Abby live after everything is literally one big reason people hate the game. Literally nobody ever wants the "Let your enemy live after killing 1000 underlings" cliche. "It was all a dream" is on the same level.
At least make it a more in depth evolution like how the Castlevania lords of shadow series shows Gabriel slowly turn into Dracula in the prequels then you get to kill him because you would know why, not just the story telling you to feel that way, you see him turn into the villain.
I thought The Last of Us Part II was done really well.
I loathed the idea of playing as Abby during the second half of the game but I very much so grew fond of her character and motivations as time went on to the point where I absolutely did not want Ellie to kill her at the end of the game.
A very bold move from Naughty Dog that I really appreciate. Also the gameplay is fucking baller.
I can agree, but I was also about 13 when the second game came out, and the writing didn't bother me at all at the time lmao so I think they reached the demographic they were aiming for either way lmao
That's a great point! I was in my early twenties when it came out and I didn't have too many issues until subsequent play through. Either way, it still remains in my library and is on my list to go play again.
I have both installed on my ps5 and I'm trying to work my way back around to them as well but I've been absolutely addicted to Returnal for the past couple months.
How is that? I've never played Roguelike games before but this one keeps coming up in my friend circle.
Ever since I first played Prototype, I keep having the phrase "Bitch, give me yo' memories!" pop into my head whenever Mercer or Heller consumes someone. It never ceases to give me a giggle.
"Don't kill off the original protagonist!"
This is how we end up with an 81-year-old Indiana Jones protagonist whose stunt double does amazing stunts like "jumping to the side" and "running up stairs".
That all being said, fuck Boruto. That show and its characters suck. I want ninjas, not computer nerds with superpowers. You can't go from ninjas living in the woods with walkie talkies to full-blown internet access in half a generation dude.
Not killing the protag is not related to to reusing the franchise over and over to milk everything that it has to offer. A franchise can have an ending without killing off the main character.
You can have a new protag while the previous one can chill out somewhere else or set your new story in a distance future or past when most if not all of the old cast logically cannot make it there.
Also, it you want to kill of an old and beloved protag then you better send them off with respect.
Fire Emblem managed to make an alternate timeline thing where you play as a new self-insert that fights your old self-insert for their Dynasty Warriors spin off. didn't see people complain about this one, hell some people liked it more.
or look at however many times MGS changed protags. there was some controversy with Raiden for sure but he got his own following soon after and i don't think anyone these days care about the jebait in MGS2.
Ok I have to say it cause I saw it right after seeing this post, but... the new Fairly Odd parents REBOOT? They have a new 3D-esq artstyle and a new protagonist, which I DON'T mind that much. But you know what? Aparently They made Timmy into a Balding Schoolbus driver in his Fourties. That's harsh.
A lot of people I’ve talked to seem to have the idea that if Joel had to die, he should have gone down in some big grand fight where he saves Ellie one last time or something along those lines. They don’t like him going down in a weak on his knees kind of way.
Because the whole games story just doesn't act out like they wanted it to. The devs wanted the player to first hate Abbie and then grow to understand her actions and by the end want both Ellie and Abbie to win, but you just don't. Abbie never reaches the point at which you start feeling for her, so during the end fight most people don't even try to get Abbie to win.
The game made Joels death into the catalyst for the entire story but since the ending of that story falls flat, then Joels death also feels like it wasn't worth it.
> The devs wanted the player to first hate Abbie and then grow to understand her actions and by the end want both Ellie and Abbie to win, but you just don't.
Speak for yourself. I did. And I know a lot of other people who did.
I know it's a little different but that's why I stopped playing Borderlands 3. My favorite character who's supposed to OP died to a bandit 🙄 and a very annoying and stupid one at that
Eh, I like Johnny and had a little "holy shit" moment when he died but I wasn't all that broke up over it. If it was Nike, Luis or even CJ then it'd be an issue but I'd never call Johnny a "beloved protag"
They did the same damn thing w Dexter. It could have been so good, but the writers didn't give as a reason to root for his son at all, then killed dexter off.
I thought GTAV was thematically appropriate with Johnny. It was definitely jarring but Johnny had become a shell of his former self and I don’t think he would have wanted to live like that.
Not every protagonist gets a happy ending, especially in that series.
It only works if the old protagonist actually goes down in a way they'd actually go down in
There's no way Arkham Batman would go down that easily
It's like having Goku from DBZ get killed by a newborn kitten
TLOU 2 was such a shame. Yeah Joel could and should have died eventually for his past actions. However, there were much better ways you could have done this while also falling in love with the next protagonist.
have you ever thought that maybe there are other problems with it? have you ever considered that maybe some people here have higher standards for storytelling?
you guys really look like a cult. "what? you don't like my game? how? it's literally perfect. you must be dumb"
this much obsession with a piece of media is unhealthy. thinking that a piece of media is perfect is insane. don't make this game your whole personality. it's depressing to see
joel's death from tlou2 at least had narrative support and weight, and also, who cares if the story doesn't go exactly the way you want it to? you wanna tell the story so much, write a fanfic or make your own game.
Joel dying upset me cuz he died. Not cuz of the writing decision. The game is fantastic. Also the man had his leg blasted with a shotgun. Surrounded by a group of younger adults help against the wall. wtf was he gonna do?
Why would anyone want to play a character that they hated? It would have made more sense for you to play as Abby and develop familiarity with her and THEN have her kill Joel.
Except for the mafia games. In mafia 1, at the end the new protagonist for the second game killed the first one, and the protagonist from the second game can optionally be killed in mafia 3.
A bit of an obscure one maybe, but darksider 2 starts with you going into a building, talking to a guy, and then killing the spirit of the protagonist from the original darksider
I mean technically the walking dead season one ends like this but it is done well. Clementine is a better protagonist than Lee but she did also get 4 seasons of development
Tbh I’m fine with Joel dying, but the way they handled his death rubbed me the wrong way, especially with characters literally spitting on him.
Besides that, the game is just filled with tons of plot holes and muddy writing. Excellent gameplay tho.
Didn't they try yo do this with halo also, except they didn't kill master chief, instead they just allowed the new guy to beat up master chief without him putting up much of a fight.
I think it’s more about trying to rush the audience to a conclusion the writer wants. We just need time. Time to accept that something’s changing, and time to let the new protagonist grow on us. You got to let the food bake a little bit before you feed it to us. Let your characters marinate and percolate.
Like with Batman Beyond, Bruce is still there, albeit in a different role, and Terry went through mistakes and lessons.
Imagine if they had started Batman Beyond with “well we killed Bruce offscreen, this Terry guy trained to become Batman offscreen, now he’s Batman.” I think it’s obvious why that’s bad writing.
Professor Layton didn’t get killed per se, but the last one takes place 20-something years in the future after he’s gone missing and stars his daughter that has never existed before hand. They never actually explain Layton’s disappearance in the game, btw.
It also doesn’t help that his daughter is completely unlikeable or that they could have just used the already established younger female character as the protagonist instead of inventing a brand new one.
Luckily New World of Steam is looking a lot better.
Let's be honest, nobody really cared about the GTA V one
Right I’ve never heard any complaints until now
Happy cake day
I havnt heard about complaints from any of these till now
Harley killing Arkham Batman was certainly a big deal, as it should be
It was definitely a major thing for TLOU2
Both last of us 2 and suicide squad had major shitstorm for this, understandably so, since in both case there were so many more options in how to do this. Though for last of us 2, I'd say the shitstorm was overshadowed by the whole "trans character" one.
i 100% heard people crying who bought a game called "suicide squad kill the justice league" that the justice league is killed In a comical way like the suicide squad does
No, it was because it was awful. Like, genuinely one of the worst stories I’ve seen in gaming in years, and that’s not mentioning how awful the game feels.
You haven't heard complaints because they didn't kill the protagonist in GTA4. Niko was the protagonist, and in one of the cut scenes with Jimmy on life invader, Niko's profile had an update, showing he was alive. Trevor killed *Johnny* in GTA5. Johnny was a support character in GTA4, not the protagonist.
Happy cake day
I felt a little mad at first, but also him and his girlfriend falling back into their meth habit had me like, "Well, you had your chance, and you blew it after all that hard work." It made sense considering he was notoriously a bad judge of character.
I disliked Trevor, but I never really gave a shit about him killing Johnny
Johnny was in another game? Am I stupid?
Not sure if you're trolling or being serious, but if you're being serious, Johnny was the MC in one of the DLCs for GTA 4.
I thought I was taking crazy pills for a second. I never played Lost and the Damned, so I was trying to remember killing CJ or Claude or Nico or Tommy Vercetti... Or even what's his name from the Ballad of Gay Tony who wasn't Gay Tony? (*Quick Google*) Uh... Luis, I guess. Anyway, maybe some people out there love Johnny, but I've literally never heard anyone express an opinion about him.
Which DLC? I got a feeling I didnt have any DLC since I dont remember a johnny
The DLC was called The Lost and the Damned
Its truly a reddit moment when you’re 4 comment levels deep into gaining an information the post was about but hasn’t disclosed, and the comment that finally gives that information is like “not sure if you are trolling or being serious” like its basic assumed knowledge for every human being. Yeah sure I too have gta 4 in my Steam library, but have I actually played it? No, of course not, like the other 90 unplayed games
i didnt even realize until now that it was the same character.
Eh, a lot of people were mad but like it’s been long enough that most stopped caring, plus Trevor being one of three protagonists kinda helps with that
Nah I’ve heard a few complaints. Never played Lost and the Damned tho so I didn’t even realize a major character got killed.
Famously hated game >!/s!<
> Let's be honest, nobody really cared about the GTA V one What is the GTA V one?
i do. Tlad was such a good time, especially with that awesome synergy with the two other gta iv's. I really liked Johnny and im dissapointed that his arc ends with him staying with that dumb hoe, becoming a junkie and dying to trevor without a fight.
Wait what previous protag did gta v kill off? The only character deaths i can think of were current character who died because story, not just some unceremonious send-off
They killed Johnny Klebitz, the protagonist of The Lost And Damned by having him become a full on meth head and getting his head stomped in by trevor
I think it was more of a vehicle to introduce the player to how unhinged and prone to shocking bouts of violence Trevor is, and it worked in that respect. Found it shocking but wasn't that gutted for Johnny. TLAD was the weaker of the DLC's for GTA IV in my opinion. If it was Luis i would have been pissed.
Weaker?? OK so I've been wanting to play it since I was like 10 but never beat gta 4 to play the dlc but I rly think the theme of bikers is so cool and I hope the dlc is good
Oh it's good it's definitely worth a play through, but one of them has to be "not the best" and Johnny is it lol
gay tony is the good Gta4 dlc
1) he was always an addict biker, so he didnt suddenly go full meth head, he was allways one, if im not mistaken he starts the Lost and Damned by getting out of rehab 2) i wouldnt call him a full blown protag, he was the lead in a dlc side story and thats it, now if Trevor had curb stomped Niko that would be a whole other story, the folks that have a problem with Trevor wouldnt really point to Johnny as the reason why like the other examples here
>he was always an addict biker He was never an addict and actively didn't like drug use. >if im not mistaken he starts the Lost and Damned by getting out of rehab You are mistaken, that was the president of the Lost MC and main antagonist, Billy Grey.
Johnny was supposed to get his GF clean at the end. Instead, he let her drag him down into the gutter. He was always a really bad judge of character and not very strong-willed. It made sense what happened to him despite how I wish he could've just been better.
Bro getting downvoted for correcting someone
I thought it was a great introduction for Trevor
Not Johnny Klebitz!!!!
As someone who never played 4 but did play 5, I enjoyed Trevor’s introduction. Still a good scene for presenting a psycho character I’d say, don’t know how different I’d feel if I knew the guy he stomped, but seeing as how no one else has ever really mentioned it, I don’t think it’s as big a deal.
Johnny klebitz is the worst gta protagonist of all time his dlc fucking sucked litterally no one was sad when he died
I was
Your opinion is irrelevant
This is the second tlou 2 post I've seen today. Did naughty dog remake tlou 2?
They did, or remastered it. I forget.
One of the above. Who knows.
At this point, they probably did both.
At this point they are going to announce a remake of the remaster
They remastered the remake of the original remaster.
I’ve never seen a game hit such a nerve with people that they ruminate on it for years. I suppose it’s a testament to how much tlou made us like Joel that to this day people are still angry about it. I personally love tlou 2, but I understand why people don’t like it, it’s a very dour and depressing story. If we’re being honest though, Joel absolutely deserved to die based on what he did to the fireflies, I think people just have a hard time seeing multiple perspectives.
In all fairness i think very few people deserve a different fate if we judge them based on what joel did. Killing for resouces territory and to guarantee your own safety seems to be the daily life in that world, especially since the fireflies themselves arent exactly saints That being said, i think the anger for tlou2 isnt too different from the anger people feel on the disney star wars trilogy, or possibly in the future: the suicide squad game. Big fanbase, absolute shit handling of beloved characters and the narrative, killing potential for future story that the fans would want to see
I wouldn't have gotten half as mad if his death wasn't so dumb, and if the whole revenge plot didn't end in >! NOTHING!< , like seriously >! Ellie everything she had behind to go on revenge, and then just gave up? The plot just goes on a circle back to where it started !<
Eh, see that didn't bother me. What did bother me was that they wrote themselves into a corner where they didn't know how to actually resolve the threads, so they whipped out the tropiest of tropes and introduced a new super duper evil revolver spinning trans-kid smacking übervillain instead. It's a shit trope on the best of days, but it's an absolute cop-out when you're trying to tell a story about two otherwise decent groups who are simply fighting due to conflicting interests. Nothing got resolved between the main two factions. We had all this build-up, followed by some headscratching, introduction of Doctor Evil, and then the story ends abruptly while the audience is distracted. It ends without *actually saying anything*.
What? The Fireflies were a paramilitary terrorist group that were willing to murder a 14 year old girl so they could control the new world? You really think they were about to just start handing out the vaccine they THINK they might be able to create out of the goodness of their hearts? Not to mention it seemed entirely likely they were about to go back on their deal with Joel and just throw him out without any of his gear which is basically a death sentence.
Do you blame them for holding on to the hope that a cure could be made? Ellie is a very special case, she’s the only immune person we know of in the whole series. I’m sure there are tons of groups out there that have been looking for something similar for 20 years, and they finally found some hope in Ellie. In a world where killing is a normal part of life, sacrificing one girl to possibly make a cure to the thing that caused the fall of humanity is not unreasonable. The only reason you feel that way is because we are attached to the characters we play as, but to everyone else Joel ruined that hope, killed a ton of people, and effectively dissolved the fireflies.
I don't really know the full rundown of how the fireflies are or exactly what joel did to them, but your comment doesn't address any of the points that comment made.
The fireflies are a rebel (terrorist) organization in TLOU who goes against the government, they find Ellie and discover she is immune, hire Joel to take her across America to help discover a cure. In the end Joel discovers They want to kill and dissect her because apparently her fungus mutated and made her immune. Joel goes on a papa-bear rampage and has the coolest sequence of mowing down around a hundred guards to rescue her. He chooses not to tell Ellie they planned to kill her nor tell her he killed a fuckton of people
More a testament to how much tlou2 made me hate Abby, to the point where I’d still choose to kill her even after playing the rest of the game. It’s annoying that they shoehorned you in to letting her go free. Like, fine, the moral of the story is violence accomplishes nothing but triggering more violence. But just let us choose and have a bad ending then.
It's because of Druckman's directing. A few changes likes ("Good." Was the worst line in the game.), and changing several scenes (you need to build sympathy for the new character *before* killing the old character, and it would have been significantly better.
I just feel like Ellie wouldn’t have completely given up everything for revenge. It doesn’t fit her character imo. Especially once she finally has some semblance of fulfillment. A kid, a wife, a house, and finally peace. On top of that, after everything she goes through to kill Abby, she doesn’t follow through?! Again, doesn’t fit her. I remember finishing the story and audibly saying what the fuck? Joel, I understand. Ellie’s character arc, I do not.
Just give it a year or two.
It's been 4 years
Was Johnny a beloved protagonist? TLAD was only ok in my opinion.
I liked the dlc and was happy to see him return, but was not gutted when he was brutally murdered by Trevor. I actually kinda thought the shock of him dying so fast was kinda funny.
This was my exact take at the time. Wonderful introduction to Trevor imo.
very mid DLC. couldn't care less that he died. OP definitely reachin with this one 😴
I mean it hit me really hard the first time I saw it bc GTA Ballad of Gay Tony and TLAD was the first game I played in the GTA series
Metal Gear Solid did alright swapping out Solid Snake with Raiden. I didn’t expect it but at least I knew my dude wasn’t dead.
MGS, the games known to have a whole new protagonist and a death for the old one every few games
What? Solid didn't die until the second to last game, he was the protagonist for almost all of them, Naked was another major character and he died in the same game. Venom died in the very first game, and Raiden just chills out. So if by "every few games" you mean once, maybe twice if you consider prequels, then yes
You can kill off a beloved protag but you better handle it well. I don't play GTA, but the last of us and even more so suicide squad did not. And it was an even bigger kick in the nuts because that was the last cameo of the Batman I grew up with R.i.p mr conroy
[удалено]
It's called Batman: Caped Crusader, for anyone scrolling by
people are speculating that it wasn’t the real justice league but clones made by the villain that the suicide squad killed but regardless it was a really shitty way to kill off both a beloved character and a shitty way to send off conroy
It’s not about the death itself, it’s about the execution (pun intended).
Mafia II
I'd say Mafia II did it right
Red dead 2 did it really well.
Who did they kill from the old game?? Considering it's a prequel
You play as Jack in the epilogue after John gets killed by the pinkertons
You're thinking of the first RDR. RDR2 is a prequel where you play as Arthur Morgan. Jack is still a boy in this one.
That still doesn’t fit the meme
So did Mafia 2.
I mean tbf Mafia 1 literally ends with the MC dying so it isn’t really a gut punch or a surprise. But they handled his killers so well in the second game that you come to like them so you’re technically right…?
This doesn't work with GTA V because nobody gave a shit they killed Johnny
Star Wars and every single beloved character
GTA V? Huh????
Ya know in the years of gta 5 being out I’ve never seen anyone give a single fuck about Trevor killing Johnny. Most people don’t even know he was a protag considering he was a short dlc one.
Who hates Trevor for killing off the biker guy?
I didn't even know he was from another game. I looked it up and the guys just a DLC protagonist I'm not surprised people didn't really care
GTA IV fans
Im nkt sure about mafia series. Whats your all opinion on it?
I think killing Tommy in Mafia II was handled greatly. They didn't have to do it, but it felt kinda natural imo. Didn't play Mafia III far enough make a call here, but I got really depressed when I saw my boy Vito was just a symbol on the map.
wait i dont remember that they killed neko in gta v
Who hated Ellie as a main protagonist. I could see people hating >!Abbie!< but not Ellie.
I think they were talking about >!Abbie!< as thats the new character compared to Ellie who you play as in the first game
You play as Ellie >!for the first half of the game.!<
You also play as her >!For the last section going into the ending. The game is very much about her emotional journey!< Maybe OP dropped the game >!when they first had to play an Abbie section!< and just doesn't know?
Ellie letting Abby live after everything is literally one big reason people hate the game. Literally nobody ever wants the "Let your enemy live after killing 1000 underlings" cliche. "It was all a dream" is on the same level.
lets not go crazy, "it was all a dream" is on a different stratosphere, sitting alone at the edge of an universe of shitty tropes
At least make it a more in depth evolution like how the Castlevania lords of shadow series shows Gabriel slowly turn into Dracula in the prequels then you get to kill him because you would know why, not just the story telling you to feel that way, you see him turn into the villain.
I thought The Last of Us Part II was done really well. I loathed the idea of playing as Abby during the second half of the game but I very much so grew fond of her character and motivations as time went on to the point where I absolutely did not want Ellie to kill her at the end of the game. A very bold move from Naughty Dog that I really appreciate. Also the gameplay is fucking baller.
Pokémon gold and silver knew how to do it.
people just never learn the lesson of the white haired, edgy, cyborg ninja huh
I liked it when prototype 2 did, but only because Alex mercer was a badass boss lol
I would've been more okay with it if they didn't turn Mercer into some giant edgelord. Loved the game, hated the writing in it.
I can agree, but I was also about 13 when the second game came out, and the writing didn't bother me at all at the time lmao so I think they reached the demographic they were aiming for either way lmao
That's a great point! I was in my early twenties when it came out and I didn't have too many issues until subsequent play through. Either way, it still remains in my library and is on my list to go play again.
I have both installed on my ps5 and I'm trying to work my way back around to them as well but I've been absolutely addicted to Returnal for the past couple months.
How is that? I've never played Roguelike games before but this one keeps coming up in my friend circle. Ever since I first played Prototype, I keep having the phrase "Bitch, give me yo' memories!" pop into my head whenever Mercer or Heller consumes someone. It never ceases to give me a giggle.
Raiden in MGS2 😂
Bruh…I was waiting to start playing as Snake again like “ok it’s going to switch back any mission now”
"Don't kill off the original protagonist!" This is how we end up with an 81-year-old Indiana Jones protagonist whose stunt double does amazing stunts like "jumping to the side" and "running up stairs". That all being said, fuck Boruto. That show and its characters suck. I want ninjas, not computer nerds with superpowers. You can't go from ninjas living in the woods with walkie talkies to full-blown internet access in half a generation dude.
Not killing the protag is not related to to reusing the franchise over and over to milk everything that it has to offer. A franchise can have an ending without killing off the main character. You can have a new protag while the previous one can chill out somewhere else or set your new story in a distance future or past when most if not all of the old cast logically cannot make it there. Also, it you want to kill of an old and beloved protag then you better send them off with respect.
Fire Emblem managed to make an alternate timeline thing where you play as a new self-insert that fights your old self-insert for their Dynasty Warriors spin off. didn't see people complain about this one, hell some people liked it more. or look at however many times MGS changed protags. there was some controversy with Raiden for sure but he got his own following soon after and i don't think anyone these days care about the jebait in MGS2.
Nah I think the best games are the ones that make the old protagonist the mentor to the new one.
Alternative route: make the old protagonist a disillusioned, weary old pessimist while the new protagonist is better in every conceivable way.
Rian johnson is that you? Or is it Kathleen Kennedy?
Disney protags in general. Not sure why I was downvoted.
Red dead redemption 2 did it right.
Ok I have to say it cause I saw it right after seeing this post, but... the new Fairly Odd parents REBOOT? They have a new 3D-esq artstyle and a new protagonist, which I DON'T mind that much. But you know what? Aparently They made Timmy into a Balding Schoolbus driver in his Fourties. That's harsh.
I don't think anyone really cared about Johnny being killed off.
Nobody liked johnny in gta 4, dude was a huge tool
Probably because the game is not expensive enough. Make it 100$. I'm sure it will fix that.
Joel's death is the main plot of the last of us part II, what the fuck are you talking about op?
It's also basically the toll coming in for his actions in the previous game.
The toll should have been done differently.
How?
A lot of people I’ve talked to seem to have the idea that if Joel had to die, he should have gone down in some big grand fight where he saves Ellie one last time or something along those lines. They don’t like him going down in a weak on his knees kind of way.
They dedicated a whole game to his death, how is that not handled well?
Because the whole games story just doesn't act out like they wanted it to. The devs wanted the player to first hate Abbie and then grow to understand her actions and by the end want both Ellie and Abbie to win, but you just don't. Abbie never reaches the point at which you start feeling for her, so during the end fight most people don't even try to get Abbie to win. The game made Joels death into the catalyst for the entire story but since the ending of that story falls flat, then Joels death also feels like it wasn't worth it.
> The devs wanted the player to first hate Abbie and then grow to understand her actions and by the end want both Ellie and Abbie to win, but you just don't. Speak for yourself. I did. And I know a lot of other people who did.
I know it's a little different but that's why I stopped playing Borderlands 3. My favorite character who's supposed to OP died to a bandit 🙄 and a very annoying and stupid one at that
But it’s edgy and people love edgy!
Eh, I like Johnny and had a little "holy shit" moment when he died but I wasn't all that broke up over it. If it was Nike, Luis or even CJ then it'd be an issue but I'd never call Johnny a "beloved protag"
That’s why top gun maverick worked so well.it’s because they kept the crazy man Tom cruise
They did the same damn thing w Dexter. It could have been so good, but the writers didn't give as a reason to root for his son at all, then killed dexter off.
Should learn from jjba
bro no ones cares about Johnny Klebitz
When did GTA V kill off Nico?
Bro after TLoU2 i cant sympathise with ellie anymore, or joel. Like they were literally the bad guys here
Imagine the final acting role of Kevin Conroy, is where Batman, a character he lived playing, is killed off.
I actually love when they do that.
I thought GTAV was thematically appropriate with Johnny. It was definitely jarring but Johnny had become a shell of his former self and I don’t think he would have wanted to live like that. Not every protagonist gets a happy ending, especially in that series.
Johnny was dope, but to be honest every last one of us said "Damn not Johnny! Anyway, Trevor FTW"
It was one hell of a way to introduce Trevor, that's for sure
Definitely
It only works if the old protagonist actually goes down in a way they'd actually go down in There's no way Arkham Batman would go down that easily It's like having Goku from DBZ get killed by a newborn kitten
Or killed by krillin lmao
He might be my favorite space duck, but he definitely shouldn't be the one to kill Goku. Not that Goku hasn't died multiple times anyway.
Quack!! What a majestic animal...
TLOU 2 was such a shame. Yeah Joel could and should have died eventually for his past actions. However, there were much better ways you could have done this while also falling in love with the next protagonist.
Being emotionally attached to the point you can’t allow creators to tell a well crafted story how they want to is crazy tbh.
Sometimes I'm reminded that a lot of children post on reddit
Last of Us 2 was brilliant. Joel dying was essential to furthering the story. Heartbreaking .
Can’t believe you are being downvoted for appreciating that art isn’t made great by pandering to the audience.
have you ever thought that maybe there are other problems with it? have you ever considered that maybe some people here have higher standards for storytelling? you guys really look like a cult. "what? you don't like my game? how? it's literally perfect. you must be dumb" this much obsession with a piece of media is unhealthy. thinking that a piece of media is perfect is insane. don't make this game your whole personality. it's depressing to see
That's like a 15 words comment you're answering to. You may be overreacting quite a bit.
So people aren't allowed to explain their reasoning anymore?
Kids these days can't handle anything that takes longer than 3 seconds to read lol
overreacting? dude it's just a comment
You are the one who seems triggered in this interaction. Just sayin
joel's death from tlou2 at least had narrative support and weight, and also, who cares if the story doesn't go exactly the way you want it to? you wanna tell the story so much, write a fanfic or make your own game.
Yep seems about right for Jujutsu Kaisen season 2 when it switched to the focus of Gojo instead of Yuuji.
I swear gojo is only ever focused on in the like first 5 or whatever episodes of season 2, and then just a few (really good) fights
Joel dying upset me cuz he died. Not cuz of the writing decision. The game is fantastic. Also the man had his leg blasted with a shotgun. Surrounded by a group of younger adults help against the wall. wtf was he gonna do?
The very goal of The Last of Us 2 is to make you hate Abby so much before you get to play her, that's the whole twist and that works perfectly.
Why would anyone want to play a character that they hated? It would have made more sense for you to play as Abby and develop familiarity with her and THEN have her kill Joel.
To teach you the game's message the best way possible?
Which was...?
Terminator dark fate suffers from this too
Sounds like Star Wars.
Prototype 2 did it alright in my opinion.
MGS2, Raiden didn’t kill Snake but still
Because people are too sensitive to enjoy a quality video game
Tlou2 is about to come to pc, so id call it a goddamned spoiler
maybe replace GTA with Star Wars.
Opposite of a protagonist, but this reminds me of Jurassic Park 3 Spinosaurus fans lol
Except for the mafia games. In mafia 1, at the end the new protagonist for the second game killed the first one, and the protagonist from the second game can optionally be killed in mafia 3.
It's just a matter of how you handle it. Talentless Nana killed it's episode 1 protagonist to slide in the real protagonist.
Prototype did it pretty well tho.
I don't it, if it had a good reason and introduce us an better storyline and EVEN difference gameplay than the old one.then I accept it.
We also hate it when the new spiderman does a flip instead of saving the old one.
Halo
[удалено]
Didnt this kinda happen in Borderlands 3 too
A bit of an obscure one maybe, but darksider 2 starts with you going into a building, talking to a guy, and then killing the spirit of the protagonist from the original darksider
The sobbing over proper storytelling is very telling. So sad
I mean technically the walking dead season one ends like this but it is done well. Clementine is a better protagonist than Lee but she did also get 4 seasons of development
People liked Trevor
Tbh I’m fine with Joel dying, but the way they handled his death rubbed me the wrong way, especially with characters literally spitting on him. Besides that, the game is just filled with tons of plot holes and muddy writing. Excellent gameplay tho.
Didn't they try yo do this with halo also, except they didn't kill master chief, instead they just allowed the new guy to beat up master chief without him putting up much of a fight.
I think it’s more about trying to rush the audience to a conclusion the writer wants. We just need time. Time to accept that something’s changing, and time to let the new protagonist grow on us. You got to let the food bake a little bit before you feed it to us. Let your characters marinate and percolate. Like with Batman Beyond, Bruce is still there, albeit in a different role, and Terry went through mistakes and lessons. Imagine if they had started Batman Beyond with “well we killed Bruce offscreen, this Terry guy trained to become Batman offscreen, now he’s Batman.” I think it’s obvious why that’s bad writing.
Pokémon GSC is the only games where this worked. Gold defeating Red was cool tho because Red was the strongest in the game so he wasn’t done dirty
Professor Layton didn’t get killed per se, but the last one takes place 20-something years in the future after he’s gone missing and stars his daughter that has never existed before hand. They never actually explain Layton’s disappearance in the game, btw. It also doesn’t help that his daughter is completely unlikeable or that they could have just used the already established younger female character as the protagonist instead of inventing a brand new one. Luckily New World of Steam is looking a lot better.