But he says that in the post-credit scene. He ends the game like that. So what restoration of hope? He's actively made miserable.
Kojima admitted he deliberately wanted everyone to end the game happy except for Snake.
He ends the game by getting to live out his days in peace as a man, not a soldier, with the people he cares for most, as short as his time is. That's something no other Snake had the chance to experience. Otacon promises to bear witness to his final days and share his story, ensuring Snake's memory will be passed on. It's a beautiful ending for a character who knew nothing but war and violence his whole life, and for a series about the importance of passing things on.
What peace? He's in constant agony all the time and is only getting worse. You think that is happy? Kojima disagrees and blatantly said as much last year. He never wanted Solid to be happy.
Solid had his peace post MG2. He chose to return to war because he learnt his peace is selfish. To say all he knew was war and violence is reductive and disrespectful to his arc.
Importance of things passing on? When Otacon tells him to his face he has nothing to pass on? This game is garbage.
No, he returned to war because he was pretty much forced to. Post MGS1 he believed that he has no other life than war. MGS4 is him accepting that he does and unlike his father..put down the gun and live.
You completely missed Solid Snake's character in mgs1 and mgs2. He ends mg1 saying he got a reminder of how to live. And that isolating himself was selfish when the world needed him. In mgs2, he tells Raiden he fights for a future. To help people. Nothing he did was forced. He was helping people.
Go watch both MGS1 endings and his dialogue with Raiden after they officially team up.
You have understood literally nothing about Solid Snake. You have put him down and his entire arc and achievements.
Mgs4 is garbage. Garbage. Konami ratfucked Kojima because the Solid Snake voodoo got him lol.
The peace that he can set aside the gun once and for all. He also makes up with his father, something he never thought he would have a chance to do, and who tells him he's the better man.
>Solid had his peace post MG2. He chose to return to war because he learnt his peace is selfish. To say all he knew was war and violence is reductive and disrespectful to his arc.
The very fact that he had to return to war shows it was not a lasting peace. No matter how much he tries to avoid it, he gets dragged back to violence everytime, except at the end of MGS4.
>Importance of things passing on? When Otacon tells him to his face he has nothing to pass on?
Otacon says Snake has no genes or memes to pass on (because they are the products of the Patriots' age, which has passed away), but he does have something else to pass on:
"Someone on the outside to bear witness to your final days. Someone to **pass on your story** . . . But I'll remember everything you were and stick with you to the end." --Otacon
The story of Solid Snake is what Otacon will pass on, which is a characteristically meta line for MGS.
Maybe try paying attention to everything the characters say instead of selectively quoting what supports your position.
What good is that gonna do when he's in agony and dying?
>The very fact that he had to return to war shows it was not a lasting peace. No matter how much he tries to avoid it, he gets dragged back to violence everytime
No, he gets back to danger after mgs1 because he wanted to help people. Watch the endings.
>because they are the products of the Patriots' age, which has passed away),
Literally everything he did with Philanthropy was the product of his own will. Not Patriots. He said as much in MGS2 ending to Raiden. His monologue is there.
Otacom is made a moron. Snake didn't need his words, he already knew all those things.
Big Boss too can get screwed. He didn't deserve the last scene, he's a monster and actively hurt Solid and his loved ones. That final scene added nothing to Solid. He's mute for most of it. It was a resolution for BB not Solid.
This game is still garbage, reductive and hinges on bullshit. Konami, flush the story down the toilet.
Snake recognised that he needed to *choose* to embrace his destiny as a creation of war who is the only one who can end war. i dont see that as a contradiction. mgs4 is the event he was literally born for.
It's bullshit. There is a difference between choosing to help like he does in mgs1 and 2 and dehumanising himself.
Otacon You said it yourself, Snake. There's nothing inside you can pass on to the next generation. No genes, no memes... You're man-made... You're a beast.
Snake : I know... A blue rose. There won't be any happy "Beauty and the Beast" ending for me. What little time I have left will be spent living... As a beast. A shadow of the inside... Of the old age.
This is pure nonsense and opposite of other games. Kojima is a hack. He openly said he wanted Solid to end mgs4 as unhappy.
wanting the ending to be unhappy doesnt mean the ending inherently contradicts the messages of the previous games. the theme of mgs4 is SENSE, ie the final thing that cannot be passed on via genes or memes, a fitting final entry in the context of the previous three. it's inherently a game about things ending.
i just dont think it contradicts mgs1 or 2. 3 also had a downer ending where big boss is essentially "locked in" to the fate of the preceding games. its ok for each game to be about different things.
Big Boss is a bastard who refused to move on is the difference. Solid continuously disowned his legacy since MG1.
Snake is repeatedly told he's lesser despite his efforts, even said do by Otacon, his damn best friend. It's garbage. Especially as Snake ended mgs2 explaining exactly what he has to leave to the future. Mgs4 is a contradictory piece of shit.
Even Revengeance contradicts it because Raiden is exactly Snake's legacy.
Make all the reachings you want. Mgs4 is a terrible terrible story that disrespects literally every single character. Snake is no exception.
Every version of Solid Snake is cool, also the mgs4 one
you have to keep in mind that man has had enough of this crazy stuff since metal gear 1 (msx), all he wanted is to stay at his house in Alaska, in peace.
imagine at least once being in his shoes: your superior wants you dead, then it turns out that he was your father, some time later you discover that you have a brother and he hates you, from there he becomes your nemesis, then there is another brother who is 3 times older than you, the patriots and now you're 40~yo but you look twice as old and you're about to die, not to mention the "minor" events like Gray Fox
Of all the flaws that MGS4 has, Snake absolutely isn't one of them. I always love the "old tired badass on the last mission" topic, so I adore his character in the game too, because it also feels like a natural progression of his character. Reminds me a lot of Logan movie, which is one of my favorite movies.
Personally I think Snake was at his best in the original MGS for PS1. I credit his awesomeness to the guy that translated the game from Japanese to English: https://www.polygon.com/2019/7/18/20696081/metal-gear-solid-translation-japanese-english-jeremy-blaustein
After playing Twin Snakes, I am convinced I wouldn't have been an MGS fan without Jeremy Blaustein.
Wow, Kojima’s ego knows no bounds.
I always felt like what he did to David Hayter, he got what was coming to him with Konami axing him.
Dude clearly is way too obsessed with Hollywood. Doesn’t know talent when it bites him in the ass.
I dislike Konami for a lot of reasons, from Pachinko to making Kojima make MGS4, to axing Silent Hills. I only hope they put good devs and writers in charge of future Metal Gear.
Kojima is a good dev despite his narcissism so yeah, I look forward to OD and his new espionage game.
I love the uh Punished angle to him it lends a lot more emotion to the character. Name a character who’s been thru more pain (or crawled thru a microwave) u cant!
However I don’t love his downgrade from being really wise, on top of things, and one step ahead in MGS2 to just turning back into a clueless pawn in 4 once he’s the playable character again.
I think he's still p badass and cool, I mean look at him, he's a worn-out soldier who's still doing exceptionally well, I'm a big fan of his design and personality within MGS4 tbh and it's my fav version/era of Snake.
But the scene of him talking to Raiden when discussing who goes to the server room was amazing.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLsDG\_clBDY&ab\_channel=kamijordan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLsDG_clBDY&ab_channel=kamijordan) 2:43, just amazing bruh
I would have preferred it not to happen. I want more games with prime Solid Snake.
Old Snake is cool. But I wish Snake had gotten old naturally. I would have liked to see Old Snake in MGS6 or 7 instead.
The whole rapid age crap was lame and I remember just being so disappointed. I wanted more of the badass but we got an old, tired man propped up by his suit. It's still my least favorite mgs. I understand the story and I get that he's a clone with rapid aging but in my opinion, it's the worst iteration of Snake. Who knows, maybe it just hurt me to see a beloved character I grew up with on his last leg?
I always thought he was still cool in mgs4 because he is someone in his 70's(physically) who can beat anyone in their 20's. That to me was really bad ass.
Old Snake was perfect. He’s always engaging to watch, such a great character.
My only negative is at the very end of the game. I don’t think Snake would puss out when he tried to off himself. Would have made more sense if that shot we heard was BigBoss’.
I don't view them as the same character at all. Solid Snake is a very different character when viewed through the lens of Raiden, and virtually everything Raiden experiences is a distortion. He's overpowered, mythical, wise and he shits out ammo crates. For much of the game he represents Kojima himself, talking to you through Snake's mouth, and is often more of a symbol than a person. Old Snake (and the different name really does denote a different character in true Kojima fashion) is vulnerable, petty and singleminded. He's very human, fallible and mortal.
I never really view these games as a single cohesive story, but as individual entries that vaguely absorb the previous games to make up some backstory, so the characters don't even necessarily need to be the same people from game to game.
Solid is very close to cohesive...if you ignore that garbage mgs4. He has a clear arc through MG1-MGS2. MGS4 is pure trash and shits on him and every character.
> Old Snake (and the different name really does denote a different character in true Kojima fashion
Um, actually Kojima said he dropped the IS from Solid to be Old because it signifies Snake's loss of life. What a hack.
It’s a a story about coming to terms with your own mortality. The whole story could almost be taken as a metaphor for grappling with loss of identity and vitality as the end approaches, and choosing to face that in spite of how much you’ve lost along the way. Being “badass” is a young man’s game - someday you’re going to know with certainty that you’re closer than not to your own end. Are you going to face that with dignity, still doing your best to handle the responsibilities you took on in your youth? Or are you going to run from it?
I don't like it. He's constantly dehunanized for his illness and loses everything. His accomplishments are ignored. He's treated as if he deserves what happens for the crime of being born. Then he ends the game accepting he's not human with Otacon agreeing. And Big Boss hijacking his game in the end was just bad.
There is tragedy and then there is blatant disrespect and ignoring the themes. The latter is what MGS4 does. Does it to every character.
I liked it quite a bit, felt like natural progression of his character, just an old war dog who wants it all to be over.
It was extremely unnatural. Snake would never call himself not-human nor would he blabber about destiny. Fuck mgs4.
It's almost like his very existence is entirely unnatural
Lmao, he spends mgs1 and mgs2 accepting his humanity. Mgs4 blatantly goes against them. One of the many reasons it's worthless as a story.
Maybe he’s shaken by his abnormal and sudden aging - isn’t the game largely about that restoration of hope?
But he says that in the post-credit scene. He ends the game like that. So what restoration of hope? He's actively made miserable. Kojima admitted he deliberately wanted everyone to end the game happy except for Snake.
He ends the game by getting to live out his days in peace as a man, not a soldier, with the people he cares for most, as short as his time is. That's something no other Snake had the chance to experience. Otacon promises to bear witness to his final days and share his story, ensuring Snake's memory will be passed on. It's a beautiful ending for a character who knew nothing but war and violence his whole life, and for a series about the importance of passing things on.
What peace? He's in constant agony all the time and is only getting worse. You think that is happy? Kojima disagrees and blatantly said as much last year. He never wanted Solid to be happy. Solid had his peace post MG2. He chose to return to war because he learnt his peace is selfish. To say all he knew was war and violence is reductive and disrespectful to his arc. Importance of things passing on? When Otacon tells him to his face he has nothing to pass on? This game is garbage.
No, he returned to war because he was pretty much forced to. Post MGS1 he believed that he has no other life than war. MGS4 is him accepting that he does and unlike his father..put down the gun and live.
You completely missed Solid Snake's character in mgs1 and mgs2. He ends mg1 saying he got a reminder of how to live. And that isolating himself was selfish when the world needed him. In mgs2, he tells Raiden he fights for a future. To help people. Nothing he did was forced. He was helping people. Go watch both MGS1 endings and his dialogue with Raiden after they officially team up. You have understood literally nothing about Solid Snake. You have put him down and his entire arc and achievements. Mgs4 is garbage. Garbage. Konami ratfucked Kojima because the Solid Snake voodoo got him lol.
The peace that he can set aside the gun once and for all. He also makes up with his father, something he never thought he would have a chance to do, and who tells him he's the better man. >Solid had his peace post MG2. He chose to return to war because he learnt his peace is selfish. To say all he knew was war and violence is reductive and disrespectful to his arc. The very fact that he had to return to war shows it was not a lasting peace. No matter how much he tries to avoid it, he gets dragged back to violence everytime, except at the end of MGS4. >Importance of things passing on? When Otacon tells him to his face he has nothing to pass on? Otacon says Snake has no genes or memes to pass on (because they are the products of the Patriots' age, which has passed away), but he does have something else to pass on: "Someone on the outside to bear witness to your final days. Someone to **pass on your story** . . . But I'll remember everything you were and stick with you to the end." --Otacon The story of Solid Snake is what Otacon will pass on, which is a characteristically meta line for MGS. Maybe try paying attention to everything the characters say instead of selectively quoting what supports your position.
What good is that gonna do when he's in agony and dying? >The very fact that he had to return to war shows it was not a lasting peace. No matter how much he tries to avoid it, he gets dragged back to violence everytime No, he gets back to danger after mgs1 because he wanted to help people. Watch the endings. >because they are the products of the Patriots' age, which has passed away), Literally everything he did with Philanthropy was the product of his own will. Not Patriots. He said as much in MGS2 ending to Raiden. His monologue is there. Otacom is made a moron. Snake didn't need his words, he already knew all those things. Big Boss too can get screwed. He didn't deserve the last scene, he's a monster and actively hurt Solid and his loved ones. That final scene added nothing to Solid. He's mute for most of it. It was a resolution for BB not Solid. This game is still garbage, reductive and hinges on bullshit. Konami, flush the story down the toilet.
Snake recognised that he needed to *choose* to embrace his destiny as a creation of war who is the only one who can end war. i dont see that as a contradiction. mgs4 is the event he was literally born for.
It's bullshit. There is a difference between choosing to help like he does in mgs1 and 2 and dehumanising himself. Otacon You said it yourself, Snake. There's nothing inside you can pass on to the next generation. No genes, no memes... You're man-made... You're a beast. Snake : I know... A blue rose. There won't be any happy "Beauty and the Beast" ending for me. What little time I have left will be spent living... As a beast. A shadow of the inside... Of the old age. This is pure nonsense and opposite of other games. Kojima is a hack. He openly said he wanted Solid to end mgs4 as unhappy.
wanting the ending to be unhappy doesnt mean the ending inherently contradicts the messages of the previous games. the theme of mgs4 is SENSE, ie the final thing that cannot be passed on via genes or memes, a fitting final entry in the context of the previous three. it's inherently a game about things ending. i just dont think it contradicts mgs1 or 2. 3 also had a downer ending where big boss is essentially "locked in" to the fate of the preceding games. its ok for each game to be about different things.
Big Boss is a bastard who refused to move on is the difference. Solid continuously disowned his legacy since MG1. Snake is repeatedly told he's lesser despite his efforts, even said do by Otacon, his damn best friend. It's garbage. Especially as Snake ended mgs2 explaining exactly what he has to leave to the future. Mgs4 is a contradictory piece of shit. Even Revengeance contradicts it because Raiden is exactly Snake's legacy. Make all the reachings you want. Mgs4 is a terrible terrible story that disrespects literally every single character. Snake is no exception.
Every version of Solid Snake is cool, also the mgs4 one you have to keep in mind that man has had enough of this crazy stuff since metal gear 1 (msx), all he wanted is to stay at his house in Alaska, in peace. imagine at least once being in his shoes: your superior wants you dead, then it turns out that he was your father, some time later you discover that you have a brother and he hates you, from there he becomes your nemesis, then there is another brother who is 3 times older than you, the patriots and now you're 40~yo but you look twice as old and you're about to die, not to mention the "minor" events like Gray Fox
He’s a musher
snake had a hard life
He got old. Thatd what happens when you get old. Source: am old.
Bro was only 42 though lol
that's very old for a clone. His body was like 80 approximately
Old Snake is my favorite snake 🫡
Preach bro preach
Of all the flaws that MGS4 has, Snake absolutely isn't one of them. I always love the "old tired badass on the last mission" topic, so I adore his character in the game too, because it also feels like a natural progression of his character. Reminds me a lot of Logan movie, which is one of my favorite movies.
Personally I think Snake was at his best in the original MGS for PS1. I credit his awesomeness to the guy that translated the game from Japanese to English: https://www.polygon.com/2019/7/18/20696081/metal-gear-solid-translation-japanese-english-jeremy-blaustein After playing Twin Snakes, I am convinced I wouldn't have been an MGS fan without Jeremy Blaustein.
Wow, Kojima’s ego knows no bounds. I always felt like what he did to David Hayter, he got what was coming to him with Konami axing him. Dude clearly is way too obsessed with Hollywood. Doesn’t know talent when it bites him in the ass.
Agree, over the years I can't help but think Hideo is way overrated and he really seems like a narcissist.
Someone should point at him and say "Hollyweeb" before laughing in his face.
He got deservedly ratfucked. Not that Konami is gonna do Metal Gear any good without him...
I only dislike what Konami did due to the state MGSV ended up in. Otherwise - just desserts. That being said I’m looking forward to his new work.
I dislike Konami for a lot of reasons, from Pachinko to making Kojima make MGS4, to axing Silent Hills. I only hope they put good devs and writers in charge of future Metal Gear. Kojima is a good dev despite his narcissism so yeah, I look forward to OD and his new espionage game.
The script in MGS 1 is gold. The translator did good.
He was still awesome but at the same time it hurt to see him that. To see such a beloved character get treated like that, it's just ...oof.
Best version hands down
I love the uh Punished angle to him it lends a lot more emotion to the character. Name a character who’s been thru more pain (or crawled thru a microwave) u cant! However I don’t love his downgrade from being really wise, on top of things, and one step ahead in MGS2 to just turning back into a clueless pawn in 4 once he’s the playable character again.
It was cool.
I think he's still p badass and cool, I mean look at him, he's a worn-out soldier who's still doing exceptionally well, I'm a big fan of his design and personality within MGS4 tbh and it's my fav version/era of Snake. But the scene of him talking to Raiden when discussing who goes to the server room was amazing. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLsDG\_clBDY&ab\_channel=kamijordan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLsDG_clBDY&ab_channel=kamijordan) 2:43, just amazing bruh
When I first saw that muscle suit, it reminded me of Deus Ex or Cyberpunk. I thought Snake became a cybernetically enhanced human
If you watch anime you know that being old = being badass.
Jiraiya,
I would have preferred it not to happen. I want more games with prime Solid Snake. Old Snake is cool. But I wish Snake had gotten old naturally. I would have liked to see Old Snake in MGS6 or 7 instead.
Old Snake naturally, so MGS6/7 would take place in like 2040 something The technology would be crazy
Yep. That'd be even more of a shellshock to a Snake coming out of retirement for one final mission. It'd be a different world from when he started.
Love the game and all character arcs. Closed the series really well. 10 out of 10 game for me replayed it so many times and still do
The whole rapid age crap was lame and I remember just being so disappointed. I wanted more of the badass but we got an old, tired man propped up by his suit. It's still my least favorite mgs. I understand the story and I get that he's a clone with rapid aging but in my opinion, it's the worst iteration of Snake. Who knows, maybe it just hurt me to see a beloved character I grew up with on his last leg?
In 4, he's the toughest, craziest, most hardcore bad ass on the planet. He's the shit.
I always thought he was still cool in mgs4 because he is someone in his 70's(physically) who can beat anyone in their 20's. That to me was really bad ass.
Old Snake was perfect. He’s always engaging to watch, such a great character. My only negative is at the very end of the game. I don’t think Snake would puss out when he tried to off himself. Would have made more sense if that shot we heard was BigBoss’.
So did Snake actually die at the end and the whole part with Big Boss is just an hallucination?
I’d say definitely he didn’t die, since Zero was also there. Snake never knew who he was.
Old (jaded) Snake fit the theme very well.
I don't view them as the same character at all. Solid Snake is a very different character when viewed through the lens of Raiden, and virtually everything Raiden experiences is a distortion. He's overpowered, mythical, wise and he shits out ammo crates. For much of the game he represents Kojima himself, talking to you through Snake's mouth, and is often more of a symbol than a person. Old Snake (and the different name really does denote a different character in true Kojima fashion) is vulnerable, petty and singleminded. He's very human, fallible and mortal. I never really view these games as a single cohesive story, but as individual entries that vaguely absorb the previous games to make up some backstory, so the characters don't even necessarily need to be the same people from game to game.
Solid is very close to cohesive...if you ignore that garbage mgs4. He has a clear arc through MG1-MGS2. MGS4 is pure trash and shits on him and every character. > Old Snake (and the different name really does denote a different character in true Kojima fashion Um, actually Kojima said he dropped the IS from Solid to be Old because it signifies Snake's loss of life. What a hack.
I thought the same for a long time. If you have 3.5 hours to spare, Steak Bentley's MGS4 Was a Mistake video on Youtube warmed me to it a little.
A criticism video warmed you to the subject of criticism?
It acknowledges MGS4's many faults, but it's not entirely critical.
I didn’t mind him at all just wish he had a full beard.
It’s a a story about coming to terms with your own mortality. The whole story could almost be taken as a metaphor for grappling with loss of identity and vitality as the end approaches, and choosing to face that in spite of how much you’ve lost along the way. Being “badass” is a young man’s game - someday you’re going to know with certainty that you’re closer than not to your own end. Are you going to face that with dignity, still doing your best to handle the responsibilities you took on in your youth? Or are you going to run from it?
I don't like it. He's constantly dehunanized for his illness and loses everything. His accomplishments are ignored. He's treated as if he deserves what happens for the crime of being born. Then he ends the game accepting he's not human with Otacon agreeing. And Big Boss hijacking his game in the end was just bad. There is tragedy and then there is blatant disrespect and ignoring the themes. The latter is what MGS4 does. Does it to every character.