Ah one of Air Canada Jetz’s planes - normally used for NHL, NBA, and other professional sports teams
Sometimes runs on Air Canada’s normal routes when they’re moving planes around
I once rode cattle class and the Raptors were in cattle class with me. It was when they were still a brand new team though. I guess things have gotten better for them since.
Some do, especially in football, but some charter. The NBA has a deal with Delta for a lot of 757s in a Delta livery but a VIP interior for their needs.
Pretty sure most professional footy teams in Australia ride cattle (or at least premium economy to fit their big frames). Different markets obviously.
The cricket team flies in an even bigger private jet filled with business class seats, but I don’t think they have the same luxury domestically.
https://www.cricketworld.com/how-the-australian-cricket-travels-see-what-its-like-to-travel-in-a-private-business-class-from-perth-to-the-uk/65956.htm
Heh, don't worry, I'm well aware. Planes have been increasingly "sardine canned" as they go. I heard they want to even make it more dense. I try not to fly as much as possible, it's just less and less comfortable and feels crazier and crazier. If possible, I'll drive even fairly long distances. Sometimes an 8 hour drive isn't really all that different in time lost at airports and for all the discomfort of not really being in control of anything.
One constant I've learned in my 41 years, people by and large are driven way more by greed than by trying to do "nice things" for their fellow humans
They all used to be but it turns out that people want the lowest price more than they want extra space and meals and so on and so on. The companies that didn't adapt are long gone.
Got an email earlier in the week saying there was a problem with the plane and my flight was cancelled. Got an update later that it was back on. This is the replacement plane, every seat is business class, electric recliner with foldout leg rest. Tons of leg room. I was in the emergency exit row, I could stretch out my legs with my ass hanging off the seat, I didn’t even come close to touching the seat in for t of me.
Stewardess says it’s used for sports team charter flights, must have been all that was available on short notice.
That's neat. I saw a random video on YouTube about this a couple days ago; saw the picture and was like "oh that's Air Canada's sports team charter plane". Seems like it! ;)
As is tradition here in Canada. Fans of the other Canadian teams hate the Leafs more than they like their own teams. They pray on their downfall, and it's been working for the last 57 years.
I just had a business meeting in Houston where one of the people there was talking about this plane. He flew it from Edmonton to Houston yesterday. Small world.
Cities with similar industries where the clientele is likely high level employees in those industries. There’s demand but those traveling the routes can pay business class rates.
I'm kind of surprised anyone cares about in-flight entertainment anymore when you can bring your own tablet or laptop, particularly if there's power available to keep it charged.
I travel with an iPad and an iPhone. The number of times I’ve lacked a charge or ability to charge is significant. Also most content is streaming these days and I forget to download new content for each trip.
Cannot tell you the number of movies I’ve watched on planes that I never would have seen otherwise.
Joy Ride, girls trip movie not the horror of the same name, was a blast!
Completely this, plus business and first class flights for longer trips often have movies still in theaters that I’m not going to go see before they come out otherwise.
Sure, charging can be an issue. I'd expect in business class there'd be in-seat power though.
I can see people forgetting to pre-download anything. I always end up doing it in the airport.
Every plane I've been on in the last 3 years has had power in the back of the armrest in front of me. And all but the smallest had screens in the headrest of the seat. The exception being the last flight I took last week - there were no headrest screens, instead there was a tablet/phone holder and instructions to connect to the in-flight wifi which gave you access to the movie player that's normally built in.
Time and weight. Why would you take the time to download a Netflix series you can watch at home to a heavy device when the plane has new movies on a larger screen?
its an Air Canada Jetz, the charter division of Air Canada, mostly used for sports teams, and specifically hockey teams to NHL games
The seats by the emergency exit face towards each other with a table in the middle, to allow for better conversing between coaches for example
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TccVXAtr2UI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TccVXAtr2UI)
\^ Alex Praglowski Aviation video that I got my info from
BA have huge premium demand out of London Heathrow to a lot of destinations. They used to have 747s with over 100 business class seats at one point.
They then also have some fairly economy heavy 777s they fly out of Gatwick for more leisure oriented routes.
Worth pointing out that it's only BA's 787-9 and -10 models that have first class. The -8s are just business, premium economy, and regular economy.
They did, via Shannon on the outbound leg to refuel and clear US immigration. Used the old Concorde flight numbers. The opening of the Elizabeth Line which massively sped up travelling from Canary Wharf to Heathrow, and the move to work-from-home hollowing out Canary Wharf anyway, means that it didn't come back after Covid.
Singapore Airlines have a couple of A350ULRs they use for the 18-hour direct Singapore-New York run that are [almost all Business Class with a few rows of Premium Economy at the back.](https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Singapore_Air/Singapore_Airlines_Airbus_A350-900ULR.php)
They obviously think that if you want economy seating on that route, you're willing to deal with a stop-over on the way.
Fun fact: This flight flies [almost directly over the North Pole](http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SIN-JFK) as that is the shortest route between the two cities.
Yup I've taken this flight. Longest flight in the world. It was nuts - the entire plane was essentially biz class.
I've never fallen asleep for the night *twice* to wake up and realize i'm on the same flight lol
BA had an all business class A318 that operated London City to JFK, just 32 seats! I cashed in a stack of avios to travel on it once, as it was blocked from nonrev bookings. Easily one of the best flights I've ever been on. When they scrapped the aircraft due to the pandemic (there were only ever two, but one had already gone to charter before the end) I was able to get one of the window cuts, although sadly not from the frame I flew on.
That's the one! (There were also BA3/4 rotations). The short runway at London City plus the unfavourable winds going west meant a fuel stop was needed outbound; it was nonstop on the return. Pre-clearance was a good use of the refuelling time.
Ah, short runway. That explains it.
The era of all-business class longhaul seems to have died with La Compagnie being the last death twitch. BA A318s, LH Group and SAS B737 Privatair wetleases (SAS has replaced the SVG-IAH all biz oil route with a CPH-BOS pharma route using A321LR with three class config). OpenSkies, Eos, Silverjet, Singapore Airlines A340-500 with nothing but 100 Business class seats for Ultra-longhaul to New York (now replaced with A350-900ULR with 70ish biz and 90ish Premium eco)…
Being a tall man there is no room to move your legs. After I got off my first International flight my left calf doesn't work any more. It's been 2 years now. Can't walk very far. Can't hike any more Can't bicycle, can't do anything. It's HELL.
Part of the clot can break off and travel to the lungs, causing a blockage of arteries in the lung, known as a pulmonary embolism.
If anyone here thinks they have a blood clot, you need to get that checked out ASAP because it can kill you.
One time in the hospital I saw a man masturbating. I asked the nurse about it and she said that if he doesn't masturbate every 6 hours there would be a clot and he would die.
In the next room, I see a nurse giving a blowjob to a different guy and say, "You have to explain this." The nurse replies, "Same problem better insurance."
“Being a tall man” is not the cause of your problem. On a long flight you are supposed to get up every couple of hours to stretch and move, to keep blood from pooling in your legs. This would be true even if you were on a long road trip. In a lower comment you said you had chronically high blood pressure - again, tight seats on a plane (as uncomfortable as they may be) did not cause your issues. But a clot could. You may well have or had a DVT (deep vein thrombosis), which some people are more prone to and those people are at higher risk when taking long flights. DVTs are dangerous clots that form in your legs that can break off and float through your bloodstream until they block a major artery, leading to death.
You seem to have resigned yourself to death and I’m not sure I can convince you otherwise, so this comment might be more for the benefit of other people who read it rather than you directly. But blood clotting disorders are easily, relatively inexpensively treated and there’s no reason for it to be a death sentence. (Treating a DVT or PE itself may be more expensive.)
BTW if you can’t afford medical care, have you looked to see if you qualify for Medicaid?
Best comment in this sub-thread. This guy has basically decided to sit down and die, kind of like my own mother did (literally didn’t want to do anything except sit and watch TV until she started getting blood clots lodging in her brain (she was in her 80s)).
Could be undiagnosed depression in both cases.
I don’t want to come down too hard on him because he says he is barely getting by and doesn’t qualify for Medicaid, in a red state (so, guessing the healthcare marketplace options aren’t great or affordable, either). I think it is less about being too lazy to get something checked out and more that he truly doesn’t have the means, and the resignation to his fate is a result of not being able to get the help he needs. I feel terrible for him and resentful of a system which forces people to delay necessary care - especially when things like, for example, clotting disorders are easily treated so long as you can get to a doctor and then a pharmacy, regularly.
Things like GoFundMe rely a lot on having a large community or social network who have expendable income to solicit, so I didn’t suggest that because I tend to assume if that were an option, it would have already been explored. I am almost inclined to say he should just rack up the debt since (as a result of the ruling in the OP) it won’t cause him material harm besides the headache of eventual debt collectors. But the problem with that is, without insurance, many doctors require payment up front. If he doesn’t have cash on hand or a credit card with a limit high enough to cover a visit and possible lab work and imaging, then he won’t even be able to be seen. And an ER is only required to stabilize a patient in an emergent event - so, for example, if OP ends up with a PE blocking blood flow to his lungs, they’d clear that clot. But if OP went in because “I’ve got this bum leg and high blood pressure” they may just send him on his way and tell him to see his primary care physician, as he is already “stable.”
Then again, if he still has a DVT, they may find that, which would be a better outcome than nothing at all. So maybe the ER is the best (or only) route..
I realize how simple it is to offer what appear to be obvious solutions, that are realistically untenable for somebody with no resources. And while some people are prone to hyperbole, nevertheless “no resources” can often mean just that - NO resources, no super secret emergency savings, no retirement funds to drain, no expensive hobby to cut back on or sell, no family to lean on.
Feels bad, man.
Awesome upgrade!
All I'm asking for is just something in between, that I am at least able to sit without my knees touching the chair in front of me, that's it. Only need 20cm of free leg room, is that too much to ask?
I caught a flight from SYD to CBR decades ago with a friend to attend a camp. Turns out we ended up on one of the politician flights that Qantas (being the national carrier) flew after the initial morning rush - small turboprop, every single seat was lambskin seat covers and extra leg room. I suspect they don't fly those any more, but for that one day it was a very pleasant surprise for the two of us.
As an Aussie pilot I've met a few who flew them, I think they kept at least one Dash 8 on the run configured like that. Itwas operated by Eastern Australian Airlines for Q-link. Used to do a lot of sports charters and gov work until EEA worked out it could make more doing regular work.
JSX kind of fill a similar market but given how they're less picky than regional airlines for pilots they're cutting costs behind the scenes to have the "semi private jet" experience. Going FBO to FBO though certainly beats dealing with the terminals in busy places.
check out [La Compagnie](https://lacompagnie.com/), an airline that sells all business class seats between EWR and NCE/MXP. They're relatively affordable, starting at $2,400 RT
Two-across, broad, leather seats. Real plates and silverware for meals. A warm cookie. And then they got bought out and run into the ground. And I don't think MKE is even a Frontier hub anymore.
Fuck capitalism.
Defunct Midwest Express airlines used to have all domestic first class seats. Very comfortable seats. Part of the charm was the freshly IN FLIGHT baked cookies, pipping hot with gooey melting chocolate chips.
Amazing service by the flight attendants. Haven’t experienced such great service like that since the 70’s for domestic or when JetBlue first started for few months.
Everyone knew they were in trouble when they changed the layout from all FC seats to typical domestic layout of FC / EC. They didn’t last long after that. Killed their unique selling point. Boy I missed flying to MKE with Midwest.
They were profitable until 9/11 and then it crushed them. They tried to cut costs, lost customers. I think what's was left of them ended up at Frontier.
I think last time I had a baked cookie in flight was international on American.
Market forces meant that people gravitated towards cheaper tickets
It used to cost a years wages to fly New York to LA and the level of comfort and service matched that luxury
Yeah, people forget that in the golden age of flying every seat was first class...and priced like it. You can still get that luxurious experience today if you book first class.
Hell it's why the Concorde failed until it's last few years when it was actually profitable. Prices were astronomical to fly on it! A few years before, since they were struggling to fill seats someone thought: "Hey, we never fill these things up, what if we sold seats at Slow Jet Business Class prices where we can still make a profit, but just not as much as a full flight at our old prices?" Then boom. Profitable.
And honestly, Concorde looked about as comfortable as a regional jet. You were paying for speed, not comfort.
As business class evolved to lie flat seats, business travelers realized they'd rather be on the plane for a few hours longer but get a good night's sleep or just be in a more comfortable seat. The time savings between Concorde and a regular jet on a NY to London flight wasn't that big to begin with.
Yup, which is why prices came down so much in the last few years of operation. They had to win over some of those Business class customers. For just enough people, the speed was worth it.
I am very interested in seeing how United plans to price their SST seats if that ever comes to fruition. Will they price them Higher or lower than International Business Class? And how will customer preference drive that price?
EDIT: Looks like American Airlines has also put in a decent order for Boom Overtures. With the successful test flight of their prototype a few months ago, it might actually be happening?
It never cost a year's wages to fly LA to NY. The most expensive it ever was proportional to wages was in the 1930's and it was maybe a few month's salary for the average income for a roundtrip. Even then you sat in wicker seats in a noisy unpressurized cabin with no insulation.
In the "golden age" of flying, the 50's and 60's, round trip LA to NY was about $4k in today's dollars.
not sure what kind of route you're flying on that you'd get that kind of price. generally the only planes that have pod style first class and some business class are generally wide body aircraft and they fly mostly intercontinental routes or sometimes transcontinental. DFW-NRT for example the cheapest business class roundtrip ticket I could find was $6k and first class was $20k. maybe you can find a shorter route with a pod style business class for $4k but you'll never find a pod style first class for anywhere near that price point
edit: just wanna drive the point that you can find shorter routes with maybe lie flat seating be it business or first, but you'll never get a private pod with a door for anything close to $4k on any route
The route the previous poster was referring to was NY (JFK) to LAX. Jetblue, American, and Delta offer pod style seating (some jetblue flights, the rest of theirs are still lie flat beds) and round trip costs can be had this week for ~$2500 RT.
Correct. Routinely you can do this if you are flexible on timing. Protip if you want pod/laydown first class seats cheaper, just get them on the way back from an international trip.
Usually it will be a day flight, they are in less demand so often are a whole lot cheaper, (by half or more) and you'll get to actually enjoy the food beverage and service rather than just trying to sleep.
> maybe you can find a shorter route with a pod style business class for $4k but you'll never find a pod style first class for anywhere near that price point
You can quite often if you time it right and find the correct plane. Hell you can go from EWR to LAX in first for $900 when you time it right, but thats going to not be 'pod' style first class.
Jet Blue (Mint) is a good way to always get a laydown seat for across US flights and is usually around $1,500 or less.
> In the "golden age" of flying, the 50's and 60's, round trip LA to NY was about $4k in today's dollars.
Closer to $5,000 or more, for a longer flight and while the original ticket price was say $250 round trip, that was when the average single worker income was less than $1,200.
Pretty wild that you can easily now get a first class RT from LA to NY on the same airline (American) for $900 and get there in essentially 1/3rd the time.
The flight I took this week from Quebec City to Wabush in a Dash 8 with PAL airlines cost me $1400 and my legs still hurts from having the front seat in my knees and on foot on top of the other for 4 hours cause the window seat is missing half the foot space due to the round outside wall.
Every time the airline industry experiences a problem, they go hat in hand to Capitol Hill to beg for money to settle their books. Yet, somehow, they still manage to provide luxurious bonuses for everyone in the C-Suite. And we proles all STILL have to deal with delays, cancellations, and shitty service. The system could be fixed.
Oh I fully agree there. We allow far too many companies to socialize their losses and receive subsidies rather than actually shoulder risk
It’s a consequence of globalization and free trade
I mean shitty service is one thing, but is paying their c-suite big salaries/bonuses really what's causing delays and cancellations? Because those happen to all commercial flights around the world...
Behold! The history of all-business-class airlines. Notice a theme?
- Air Atlanta (defunct)
- British Airways - London City Airport to JFK Airport operated in Airbus A318 (defunct)
- Eos Airlines (defunct)
- L'Avion (defunct)
- La Compagnie
- Legend Airlines (defunct)
- Air1 (defunct)
- MAXjet Airways (defunct)
- MGM Grand Airways (defunct)
- Midwest Airlines (stopped offering all business class service in 2003; merged with Frontier Airlines in 2010)
- OpenSkies (defunct)
- Silverjet (defunct)
- UltrAir (defunct)
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_class_airline
I fly long haul international a lot, about 30 segments a year. Business class is almost always full on my flights. Singapore airlines doesnt even have economy class between NY and Singapore direct non stop (because they need reduced weight for such a crazy long flight or they wouldnt have the range) and that flight is always super full.
I remember meeting an SO at Cathay who left for an SO job at Silverjet just so he could live in the UK. He had to pay out pretty much his entire training bond to Cathay then Silverjet went under without him making it to FO. Biggest career fail I've ever heard of and no one was interested in him after when his book was mainly P2X time.
That's called business class, my dude. You are free to pay for business class as you wish. I, for one, actually appreciate being able to fly for a price cheaper than that.
Flights back in the day was priced similarly to business class today. So yeah, if you want what it was like back in the day, book business class because that's how much it would've cost.
Fucking wild how people don't understand how cheap flights are relatively speaking nowadays. If the choice was what we have today vs paying more for only business class flights, literally every single person would take the option to just be uncomfortable on the flight.
How much would each seat cost though if each seat was that size? That’s a significant reduction in the amount of people they can put into each flight. I’d love airline seats to be that comfortable, but there are actual real costs businesses have to account for. Expecting planes to have seating like that and still have the same prices as they do now is highly unrealistic.
The actual problem is that there isn't much in the middle.
I'd gladly pay 10% more for 10% of extra seat pitch/legroom. I'm pretty sure many people would.
That's not on offer. It's either 2 times more for premium economy or 4+ times more for business class.
You are free to pay for business class. Most people choose the cheapest option and flying nowadays is actually feasible to many many more people than it was even just a few decades ago. It’s no longer a privilege just for the rich and upper middle class, which I think is a good thing.
Why would you complain when you can just spend more to purchase a business class seat? You're paying for the cheapest option and then complaining that the seats aren't to your liking when there are better options. Either pay more for a better seat or deal with it.
Fun fact, but premium seating is what pays for the majority of the cost of operation of an airplane. Learn to pay more and you won’t be treated like cattle. Your $69 fare to Des Moines barely covers the cost of the fuel used to start the engines.
If you'd like to pay the premium cost, the better seats are available. If the entire plane is seats like this, good luck flying anywhere for less than $1000. And a transatlantic flight? $3k or more.
Operating an airplane isn't cheap.
> Nobody ever told the airlines it was OK to treat us like fucking cattle.
We did, though. By continuing to buy tickets even after they turned the planes into sardine cans.
Well to be profitable they kinda do have to get as many people in the plane as possible, which means cutting some luxuries like leg room and wide seats.
If I could pay less and stand the whole flight packed in like a New York subway, I would. Planes are uncomfortable, the pressure hurts your ears, you can get nauseous, I don’t care about the comfort of my seat, my goal is point a to point b safely for the cheapest possible price.
737s and A320s have been the workhorses of short haul domestic flights for decades, and those fuselages have always been the same width. Perhaps leg room has shrunk a bit, but seat width has been the same. They've always been in 3x3 configurations in economy class, and there simply was never room to have wider seats.
Hey Mr genius since it's apparently so easy why don't you go and start an airline company and build planes that are all like this and see how long you stay in business 😂😂😂
Growing up, my dad had a ton of miles from traveling for work and would frequently get complimentary 1st class upgrades on our flights to Disney, etc. Most of the time he and my mom would take the upgrades and leave us to fend for ourselves in the back. But every so often he’d let one of us sit up front with him, so much so that almost every time we flew somewhere we’d ask if the plane had a first class. One of his favorite dad jokes when he knew it was a smaller or cheaper flight was to say “it’s all first class”, and we’d DREAM of getting on a plane that looked like this, when in actuality it would be all economy seats, and he’d have a great laugh at our disappointment. He’d get a kick out of knowing that such a plane actually does exist.
Singapore Air used to do an LAX to Singapore direct, all business class. It was a long ass direct flight (16 hours) but boy oh boy the service was good.
I was on a similar plane last Sunday.
Perhaps same plane.
I talked to the first office and stewardess and both told me it was the Oilers charter flight.
They had put it into service as the other plane was under maintenance.
It was amazing flight.
The back section had seats facing each other with tables.
Emergency exit had so much space.
Ah one of Air Canada Jetz’s planes - normally used for NHL, NBA, and other professional sports teams Sometimes runs on Air Canada’s normal routes when they’re moving planes around
I took a similar aircraft back in the day (about 20 years ago) and they said it was the same one used for the Toronto Raptors.
I once rode cattle class and the Raptors were in cattle class with me. It was when they were still a brand new team though. I guess things have gotten better for them since.
debatable
Flags fly forever. (I know that’s a baseball saying, but banners hang forever doesn’t sound as cool.)
banners waive forever? Perhaps a more lively verb can brighten it up?
??? They have a chip, things after not like they were when they first entered the league.
What’s to debate, large market and nba champs
I'd read a short story about the career of their travel manager from that era.
Leafs aren’t normally using it this time of year
Yeah they're usually at least a few weeks into the golf season.
And the Blue Jays are in Milwaukee for a few days.
You took their comment too seriously
Well we know the leafs don’t need it right now
I always thought pro teams owned their planes.
Some do, especially in football, but some charter. The NBA has a deal with Delta for a lot of 757s in a Delta livery but a VIP interior for their needs.
Pretty sure most professional footy teams in Australia ride cattle (or at least premium economy to fit their big frames). Different markets obviously. The cricket team flies in an even bigger private jet filled with business class seats, but I don’t think they have the same luxury domestically. https://www.cricketworld.com/how-the-australian-cricket-travels-see-what-its-like-to-travel-in-a-private-business-class-from-perth-to-the-uk/65956.htm
So you're saying that planes could be more comfortable and luxurious all the time and they just choose to not do that /s
Yes. But they chose not to because they make less money with fewer seats.
Heh, don't worry, I'm well aware. Planes have been increasingly "sardine canned" as they go. I heard they want to even make it more dense. I try not to fly as much as possible, it's just less and less comfortable and feels crazier and crazier. If possible, I'll drive even fairly long distances. Sometimes an 8 hour drive isn't really all that different in time lost at airports and for all the discomfort of not really being in control of anything. One constant I've learned in my 41 years, people by and large are driven way more by greed than by trying to do "nice things" for their fellow humans
We could just have high-speed rail but noooooo.
Sure, it just costs more. Airlines are pretty low margin companies you pay about what it costs to fly.
They all used to be but it turns out that people want the lowest price more than they want extra space and meals and so on and so on. The companies that didn't adapt are long gone.
Got an email earlier in the week saying there was a problem with the plane and my flight was cancelled. Got an update later that it was back on. This is the replacement plane, every seat is business class, electric recliner with foldout leg rest. Tons of leg room. I was in the emergency exit row, I could stretch out my legs with my ass hanging off the seat, I didn’t even come close to touching the seat in for t of me. Stewardess says it’s used for sports team charter flights, must have been all that was available on short notice.
That's neat. I saw a random video on YouTube about this a couple days ago; saw the picture and was like "oh that's Air Canada's sports team charter plane". Seems like it! ;)
I mean, the Leafs aren’t using it this time of year might as well keep it around.
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As is tradition here in Canada. Fans of the other Canadian teams hate the Leafs more than they like their own teams. They pray on their downfall, and it's been working for the last 57 years.
That's the neat part, you don't have to actually like any of the other teams to hate the Leafs!
My 18 month old grandson in Ottawa, points and boos when he sees a leafs emblem, that's my boy!
They need it to get to the next golf course
A joke so nice you used it twice, huh?
Casual Friday, also known as casual Shabbat.
I just had a business meeting in Houston where one of the people there was talking about this plane. He flew it from Edmonton to Houston yesterday. Small world.
Cities with similar industries where the clientele is likely high level employees in those industries. There’s demand but those traveling the routes can pay business class rates.
I can’t tell from the photo. What was the tech like for each seat?
Flew this last week as well, no screens in the seats at all.
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My interpretation of this question id what is the screen situation. If it’s in the seat-back in front of you that seems inconvenient.
I'm kind of surprised anyone cares about in-flight entertainment anymore when you can bring your own tablet or laptop, particularly if there's power available to keep it charged.
I travel with an iPad and an iPhone. The number of times I’ve lacked a charge or ability to charge is significant. Also most content is streaming these days and I forget to download new content for each trip. Cannot tell you the number of movies I’ve watched on planes that I never would have seen otherwise. Joy Ride, girls trip movie not the horror of the same name, was a blast!
Completely this, plus business and first class flights for longer trips often have movies still in theaters that I’m not going to go see before they come out otherwise.
Sure, charging can be an issue. I'd expect in business class there'd be in-seat power though. I can see people forgetting to pre-download anything. I always end up doing it in the airport.
Every plane I've been on in the last 3 years has had power in the back of the armrest in front of me. And all but the smallest had screens in the headrest of the seat. The exception being the last flight I took last week - there were no headrest screens, instead there was a tablet/phone holder and instructions to connect to the in-flight wifi which gave you access to the movie player that's normally built in.
Time and weight. Why would you take the time to download a Netflix series you can watch at home to a heavy device when the plane has new movies on a larger screen?
What is this AI-ass comment?
The entire thread went stupid.
I think they were enquiring about the entertainment in the back of the seats / screen with movies / games on it.
its an Air Canada Jetz, the charter division of Air Canada, mostly used for sports teams, and specifically hockey teams to NHL games The seats by the emergency exit face towards each other with a table in the middle, to allow for better conversing between coaches for example [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TccVXAtr2UI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TccVXAtr2UI) \^ Alex Praglowski Aviation video that I got my info from
Why would hockey teams be going to football games ?
Because they've been knocked out of the playoffs.
nhl, oops thanks
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BA have huge premium demand out of London Heathrow to a lot of destinations. They used to have 747s with over 100 business class seats at one point. They then also have some fairly economy heavy 777s they fly out of Gatwick for more leisure oriented routes. Worth pointing out that it's only BA's 787-9 and -10 models that have first class. The -8s are just business, premium economy, and regular economy.
I'm fairly sure the 777-200's they fly out of Gatwick have more total seats than the 777-300's from Heathrow
I think they flew A318's out of London City to JFK in an all-business configuration for a while as well.
They did, via Shannon on the outbound leg to refuel and clear US immigration. Used the old Concorde flight numbers. The opening of the Elizabeth Line which massively sped up travelling from Canary Wharf to Heathrow, and the move to work-from-home hollowing out Canary Wharf anyway, means that it didn't come back after Covid.
Singapore Airlines have a couple of A350ULRs they use for the 18-hour direct Singapore-New York run that are [almost all Business Class with a few rows of Premium Economy at the back.](https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Singapore_Air/Singapore_Airlines_Airbus_A350-900ULR.php) They obviously think that if you want economy seating on that route, you're willing to deal with a stop-over on the way. Fun fact: This flight flies [almost directly over the North Pole](http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SIN-JFK) as that is the shortest route between the two cities.
They used to do this run with A340s, which originally had mixed premium economy and business but later were converted to have 100 business seats.
Yup I've taken this flight. Longest flight in the world. It was nuts - the entire plane was essentially biz class. I've never fallen asleep for the night *twice* to wake up and realize i'm on the same flight lol
It doesn’t fly over the pole anymore, it can’t fly over russia.
Looks like they steer clear of the Russians these days: https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/SIA23/history/20240611/0321Z/KJFK/WSSS
BA had an all business class A318 that operated London City to JFK, just 32 seats! I cashed in a stack of avios to travel on it once, as it was blocked from nonrev bookings. Easily one of the best flights I've ever been on. When they scrapped the aircraft due to the pandemic (there were only ever two, but one had already gone to charter before the end) I was able to get one of the window cuts, although sadly not from the frame I flew on.
Didn’t this flight do a stop in Ireland for refuel and US border preclearance? Flight no BA001/002 taken over from Concorde.
That's the one! (There were also BA3/4 rotations). The short runway at London City plus the unfavourable winds going west meant a fuel stop was needed outbound; it was nonstop on the return. Pre-clearance was a good use of the refuelling time.
Ah, short runway. That explains it. The era of all-business class longhaul seems to have died with La Compagnie being the last death twitch. BA A318s, LH Group and SAS B737 Privatair wetleases (SAS has replaced the SVG-IAH all biz oil route with a CPH-BOS pharma route using A321LR with three class config). OpenSkies, Eos, Silverjet, Singapore Airlines A340-500 with nothing but 100 Business class seats for Ultra-longhaul to New York (now replaced with A350-900ULR with 70ish biz and 90ish Premium eco)…
I’m not so sure it’s dead, Beond just started flights and they’re all Business class.
Don’t they have the normal first, business, premium economy and economy layout? That’s relatively standard on most long haul airlines.
That looks great! I haven't been able to walk for 2 years because of economy class.
What do you mean?
He got fucked pretty good in there
It’s that 6’4” life. Also possibly getting railed in the ass. It’s an or-inclusive situation.
Being a tall man there is no room to move your legs. After I got off my first International flight my left calf doesn't work any more. It's been 2 years now. Can't walk very far. Can't hike any more Can't bicycle, can't do anything. It's HELL.
You had a blood clot?
I suspect that is what is wrong
Have you gotten it checked out? cause blood clots are no joke
Part of the clot can break off and travel to the lungs, causing a blockage of arteries in the lung, known as a pulmonary embolism. If anyone here thinks they have a blood clot, you need to get that checked out ASAP because it can kill you.
One time in the hospital I saw a man masturbating. I asked the nurse about it and she said that if he doesn't masturbate every 6 hours there would be a clot and he would die. In the next room, I see a nurse giving a blowjob to a different guy and say, "You have to explain this." The nurse replies, "Same problem better insurance."
lol you seem very nonchalant about this
“Being a tall man” is not the cause of your problem. On a long flight you are supposed to get up every couple of hours to stretch and move, to keep blood from pooling in your legs. This would be true even if you were on a long road trip. In a lower comment you said you had chronically high blood pressure - again, tight seats on a plane (as uncomfortable as they may be) did not cause your issues. But a clot could. You may well have or had a DVT (deep vein thrombosis), which some people are more prone to and those people are at higher risk when taking long flights. DVTs are dangerous clots that form in your legs that can break off and float through your bloodstream until they block a major artery, leading to death. You seem to have resigned yourself to death and I’m not sure I can convince you otherwise, so this comment might be more for the benefit of other people who read it rather than you directly. But blood clotting disorders are easily, relatively inexpensively treated and there’s no reason for it to be a death sentence. (Treating a DVT or PE itself may be more expensive.) BTW if you can’t afford medical care, have you looked to see if you qualify for Medicaid?
Best comment in this sub-thread. This guy has basically decided to sit down and die, kind of like my own mother did (literally didn’t want to do anything except sit and watch TV until she started getting blood clots lodging in her brain (she was in her 80s)). Could be undiagnosed depression in both cases.
I don’t want to come down too hard on him because he says he is barely getting by and doesn’t qualify for Medicaid, in a red state (so, guessing the healthcare marketplace options aren’t great or affordable, either). I think it is less about being too lazy to get something checked out and more that he truly doesn’t have the means, and the resignation to his fate is a result of not being able to get the help he needs. I feel terrible for him and resentful of a system which forces people to delay necessary care - especially when things like, for example, clotting disorders are easily treated so long as you can get to a doctor and then a pharmacy, regularly. Things like GoFundMe rely a lot on having a large community or social network who have expendable income to solicit, so I didn’t suggest that because I tend to assume if that were an option, it would have already been explored. I am almost inclined to say he should just rack up the debt since (as a result of the ruling in the OP) it won’t cause him material harm besides the headache of eventual debt collectors. But the problem with that is, without insurance, many doctors require payment up front. If he doesn’t have cash on hand or a credit card with a limit high enough to cover a visit and possible lab work and imaging, then he won’t even be able to be seen. And an ER is only required to stabilize a patient in an emergent event - so, for example, if OP ends up with a PE blocking blood flow to his lungs, they’d clear that clot. But if OP went in because “I’ve got this bum leg and high blood pressure” they may just send him on his way and tell him to see his primary care physician, as he is already “stable.” Then again, if he still has a DVT, they may find that, which would be a better outcome than nothing at all. So maybe the ER is the best (or only) route.. I realize how simple it is to offer what appear to be obvious solutions, that are realistically untenable for somebody with no resources. And while some people are prone to hyperbole, nevertheless “no resources” can often mean just that - NO resources, no super secret emergency savings, no retirement funds to drain, no expensive hobby to cut back on or sell, no family to lean on. Feels bad, man.
Air canada jetz
[The Singapore Airlines version, All-Business-Class Jet](https://cdn.above9.travel/files/singapore-airlines-business-class-airbus-a380-new.jpg)
Awesome upgrade! All I'm asking for is just something in between, that I am at least able to sit without my knees touching the chair in front of me, that's it. Only need 20cm of free leg room, is that too much to ask?
Flight of the Conchords. It’s Business Class
"Team building exercise ninety niiiine!"
Is that the lyric? I always thought it was “team building exercise night tonight!” Huh
It's "Team building exercise, not tonight." Source - I'm a New Zealander.
It's the caption of her tshirt. It's from a team building exercise in 1999
You know when I'm down to my socks it's business time that's why they're called business socks!
This plane is all business, all the time.
Business in the front, business in the back
Oops! All Business
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I caught a flight from SYD to CBR decades ago with a friend to attend a camp. Turns out we ended up on one of the politician flights that Qantas (being the national carrier) flew after the initial morning rush - small turboprop, every single seat was lambskin seat covers and extra leg room. I suspect they don't fly those any more, but for that one day it was a very pleasant surprise for the two of us.
As an Aussie pilot I've met a few who flew them, I think they kept at least one Dash 8 on the run configured like that. Itwas operated by Eastern Australian Airlines for Q-link. Used to do a lot of sports charters and gov work until EEA worked out it could make more doing regular work.
There used to be an airline called Midwest Express. It was all first class like this, and reasonably priced. I miss it.
Always got free Champaign and warm chocolate chip cookies on every flight. Humanity has passed its peak.
JSX kind of fill a similar market but given how they're less picky than regional airlines for pilots they're cutting costs behind the scenes to have the "semi private jet" experience. Going FBO to FBO though certainly beats dealing with the terminals in busy places.
I have a flight with JSX in 2 months 😭 I’m going to vet the pilot when I go I don’t need a Denzel Vodka situation
check out [La Compagnie](https://lacompagnie.com/), an airline that sells all business class seats between EWR and NCE/MXP. They're relatively affordable, starting at $2,400 RT
They used to fly to Paris too (though Orly, not CDG) do they no longer fly there?
Can still select ORY as a destination in their flight finder.
Just saw a [Noel Philips flight review](https://youtu.be/EEywC-QgkNI?si=r5QDCHVaiLhA97Iz) of them Sunday, nice planes.
Hey, that's a great shout!
Reminds me of Midwest Express flights growing up. Complete with fresh baked chocolate chip cookies!
I was thinking the same thing. Miss them every time I fly.
Two-across, broad, leather seats. Real plates and silverware for meals. A warm cookie. And then they got bought out and run into the ground. And I don't think MKE is even a Frontier hub anymore. Fuck capitalism.
All business, but not even ANY party in the back??
Bring back the mullet !
They're back with a vengeance in Australia. Be careful what you wish for.
Defunct Midwest Express airlines used to have all domestic first class seats. Very comfortable seats. Part of the charm was the freshly IN FLIGHT baked cookies, pipping hot with gooey melting chocolate chips. Amazing service by the flight attendants. Haven’t experienced such great service like that since the 70’s for domestic or when JetBlue first started for few months. Everyone knew they were in trouble when they changed the layout from all FC seats to typical domestic layout of FC / EC. They didn’t last long after that. Killed their unique selling point. Boy I missed flying to MKE with Midwest.
They were profitable until 9/11 and then it crushed them. They tried to cut costs, lost customers. I think what's was left of them ended up at Frontier. I think last time I had a baked cookie in flight was international on American.
This is what EVERY fucking plane should look like. Nobody ever told the airlines it was OK to treat us like fucking cattle.
Market forces meant that people gravitated towards cheaper tickets It used to cost a years wages to fly New York to LA and the level of comfort and service matched that luxury
Yeah, people forget that in the golden age of flying every seat was first class...and priced like it. You can still get that luxurious experience today if you book first class.
Hell it's why the Concorde failed until it's last few years when it was actually profitable. Prices were astronomical to fly on it! A few years before, since they were struggling to fill seats someone thought: "Hey, we never fill these things up, what if we sold seats at Slow Jet Business Class prices where we can still make a profit, but just not as much as a full flight at our old prices?" Then boom. Profitable.
And honestly, Concorde looked about as comfortable as a regional jet. You were paying for speed, not comfort. As business class evolved to lie flat seats, business travelers realized they'd rather be on the plane for a few hours longer but get a good night's sleep or just be in a more comfortable seat. The time savings between Concorde and a regular jet on a NY to London flight wasn't that big to begin with.
Yup, which is why prices came down so much in the last few years of operation. They had to win over some of those Business class customers. For just enough people, the speed was worth it. I am very interested in seeing how United plans to price their SST seats if that ever comes to fruition. Will they price them Higher or lower than International Business Class? And how will customer preference drive that price? EDIT: Looks like American Airlines has also put in a decent order for Boom Overtures. With the successful test flight of their prototype a few months ago, it might actually be happening?
It never cost a year's wages to fly LA to NY. The most expensive it ever was proportional to wages was in the 1930's and it was maybe a few month's salary for the average income for a roundtrip. Even then you sat in wicker seats in a noisy unpressurized cabin with no insulation. In the "golden age" of flying, the 50's and 60's, round trip LA to NY was about $4k in today's dollars.
And today for $4k you get your own private pod with a door and a flat screen TV. First class has also never been more luxurious.
not sure what kind of route you're flying on that you'd get that kind of price. generally the only planes that have pod style first class and some business class are generally wide body aircraft and they fly mostly intercontinental routes or sometimes transcontinental. DFW-NRT for example the cheapest business class roundtrip ticket I could find was $6k and first class was $20k. maybe you can find a shorter route with a pod style business class for $4k but you'll never find a pod style first class for anywhere near that price point edit: just wanna drive the point that you can find shorter routes with maybe lie flat seating be it business or first, but you'll never get a private pod with a door for anything close to $4k on any route
The route the previous poster was referring to was NY (JFK) to LAX. Jetblue, American, and Delta offer pod style seating (some jetblue flights, the rest of theirs are still lie flat beds) and round trip costs can be had this week for ~$2500 RT.
Correct. Routinely you can do this if you are flexible on timing. Protip if you want pod/laydown first class seats cheaper, just get them on the way back from an international trip. Usually it will be a day flight, they are in less demand so often are a whole lot cheaper, (by half or more) and you'll get to actually enjoy the food beverage and service rather than just trying to sleep.
> maybe you can find a shorter route with a pod style business class for $4k but you'll never find a pod style first class for anywhere near that price point You can quite often if you time it right and find the correct plane. Hell you can go from EWR to LAX in first for $900 when you time it right, but thats going to not be 'pod' style first class. Jet Blue (Mint) is a good way to always get a laydown seat for across US flights and is usually around $1,500 or less.
> In the "golden age" of flying, the 50's and 60's, round trip LA to NY was about $4k in today's dollars. Closer to $5,000 or more, for a longer flight and while the original ticket price was say $250 round trip, that was when the average single worker income was less than $1,200. Pretty wild that you can easily now get a first class RT from LA to NY on the same airline (American) for $900 and get there in essentially 1/3rd the time.
The flight I took this week from Quebec City to Wabush in a Dash 8 with PAL airlines cost me $1400 and my legs still hurts from having the front seat in my knees and on foot on top of the other for 4 hours cause the window seat is missing half the foot space due to the round outside wall.
Every time the airline industry experiences a problem, they go hat in hand to Capitol Hill to beg for money to settle their books. Yet, somehow, they still manage to provide luxurious bonuses for everyone in the C-Suite. And we proles all STILL have to deal with delays, cancellations, and shitty service. The system could be fixed.
Oh I fully agree there. We allow far too many companies to socialize their losses and receive subsidies rather than actually shoulder risk It’s a consequence of globalization and free trade
I mean shitty service is one thing, but is paying their c-suite big salaries/bonuses really what's causing delays and cancellations? Because those happen to all commercial flights around the world...
Behold! The history of all-business-class airlines. Notice a theme? - Air Atlanta (defunct) - British Airways - London City Airport to JFK Airport operated in Airbus A318 (defunct) - Eos Airlines (defunct) - L'Avion (defunct) - La Compagnie - Legend Airlines (defunct) - Air1 (defunct) - MAXjet Airways (defunct) - MGM Grand Airways (defunct) - Midwest Airlines (stopped offering all business class service in 2003; merged with Frontier Airlines in 2010) - OpenSkies (defunct) - Silverjet (defunct) - UltrAir (defunct) Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_class_airline
OpenSkies went defunct in 2020 and Midwest wend defunct in 2010 (folded into Frontier). La Compagnie is the last one standing and they are phenomenal.
The rich ones fly private and the others want cheap as possible.
I fly long haul international a lot, about 30 segments a year. Business class is almost always full on my flights. Singapore airlines doesnt even have economy class between NY and Singapore direct non stop (because they need reduced weight for such a crazy long flight or they wouldnt have the range) and that flight is always super full.
Must be nice!
I remember meeting an SO at Cathay who left for an SO job at Silverjet just so he could live in the UK. He had to pay out pretty much his entire training bond to Cathay then Silverjet went under without him making it to FO. Biggest career fail I've ever heard of and no one was interested in him after when his book was mainly P2X time.
People want the cheapest flight, an airline flying seating like this would go bankrupt before spirit
That's called business class, my dude. You are free to pay for business class as you wish. I, for one, actually appreciate being able to fly for a price cheaper than that. Flights back in the day was priced similarly to business class today. So yeah, if you want what it was like back in the day, book business class because that's how much it would've cost.
Fucking wild how people don't understand how cheap flights are relatively speaking nowadays. If the choice was what we have today vs paying more for only business class flights, literally every single person would take the option to just be uncomfortable on the flight.
How much would each seat cost though if each seat was that size? That’s a significant reduction in the amount of people they can put into each flight. I’d love airline seats to be that comfortable, but there are actual real costs businesses have to account for. Expecting planes to have seating like that and still have the same prices as they do now is highly unrealistic.
I’ll take being cattle for $700 flights to Europe
For that brief period when Norwegian Air were flying transatlantic you could get flights for less than €250.
We told them to treat us like shit with our wallets. Cheap airfare at the expense of comfort and service is most desirable for the majority of flyers.
Who upvotes comments like this? 99% of you wouldn’t be able to afford traveling by air if every plane looked like this. Get real.
You know you can already book business class seats right? Oh what’s that? They’re too expensive? Then I don’t think you really want that.
It never ceases to amaze how many people expect a business to bankrupt itself so they can receive premium service at an economy price.
This sums it up so well
The actual problem is that there isn't much in the middle. I'd gladly pay 10% more for 10% of extra seat pitch/legroom. I'm pretty sure many people would. That's not on offer. It's either 2 times more for premium economy or 4+ times more for business class.
I already do.
You are free to pay for business class. Most people choose the cheapest option and flying nowadays is actually feasible to many many more people than it was even just a few decades ago. It’s no longer a privilege just for the rich and upper middle class, which I think is a good thing.
Why would you complain when you can just spend more to purchase a business class seat? You're paying for the cheapest option and then complaining that the seats aren't to your liking when there are better options. Either pay more for a better seat or deal with it.
Fun fact, but premium seating is what pays for the majority of the cost of operation of an airplane. Learn to pay more and you won’t be treated like cattle. Your $69 fare to Des Moines barely covers the cost of the fuel used to start the engines.
> Learn to pay more It's hard to learn to spend money that doesn't exist :(
If you'd like to pay the premium cost, the better seats are available. If the entire plane is seats like this, good luck flying anywhere for less than $1000. And a transatlantic flight? $3k or more. Operating an airplane isn't cheap.
You’re flying through the air. You have two options: Affordable or comfortable. That’s how it has always been, because flying is inherently expensive.
Ready to pay 10x the price? You get what you pay for, passenger flight margins typically aren't very good.
No thanks. I’d rather pay cheaper prices than pay for a few hours of slightly better comfort
> Nobody ever told the airlines it was OK to treat us like fucking cattle. We did, though. By continuing to buy tickets even after they turned the planes into sardine cans.
I’d be ok with the layout of the plane in The Fifth Element. Just give me a Japanese hotel capsule for the flight.
Well to be profitable they kinda do have to get as many people in the plane as possible, which means cutting some luxuries like leg room and wide seats.
Love to quadruple my already high travel CO2 emissions
Yeah! Plane design planes and airline business models should be decided by some asshole on reddit!
If I could pay less and stand the whole flight packed in like a New York subway, I would. Planes are uncomfortable, the pressure hurts your ears, you can get nauseous, I don’t care about the comfort of my seat, my goal is point a to point b safely for the cheapest possible price.
Also, I am pretty sure that this is what economy class was like some decades ago.
737s and A320s have been the workhorses of short haul domestic flights for decades, and those fuselages have always been the same width. Perhaps leg room has shrunk a bit, but seat width has been the same. They've always been in 3x3 configurations in economy class, and there simply was never room to have wider seats.
Pretty much every plane does have a section that looks like this or better. You just have to pay more for it and majority aren't willing to
Probably what people of the past expected air travel to be all the time
Unfortunately airlines are already operating on razor thin margins. Unless passengers are willing to pay higher ticket prices, this is not possible.
Yeah alright man, just triple the price of everyone's ticket and we'll be good to go!
🤡
Hey Mr genius since it's apparently so easy why don't you go and start an airline company and build planes that are all like this and see how long you stay in business 😂😂😂
This is def a hockey plane
Yup, AC Jetz
Growing up, my dad had a ton of miles from traveling for work and would frequently get complimentary 1st class upgrades on our flights to Disney, etc. Most of the time he and my mom would take the upgrades and leave us to fend for ourselves in the back. But every so often he’d let one of us sit up front with him, so much so that almost every time we flew somewhere we’d ask if the plane had a first class. One of his favorite dad jokes when he knew it was a smaller or cheaper flight was to say “it’s all first class”, and we’d DREAM of getting on a plane that looked like this, when in actuality it would be all economy seats, and he’d have a great laugh at our disappointment. He’d get a kick out of knowing that such a plane actually does exist.
Business in the front, Business in the back.
Air Canada Jetz
Midwest Express was like that for every flight.
'Member Midwest Express? I 'member. "Save the cookie!"
This plane really means business!
That doesn’t look like a lay flat seat to me
Short haul business vs long-haul business.
It looks like premium economy seats, not real business class
No this is what business class looks like for short flights.
Singapore Air used to do an LAX to Singapore direct, all business class. It was a long ass direct flight (16 hours) but boy oh boy the service was good.
Except for the fancy seats (and the smoke filled back half), this is basically how the seating in planes used to be like.
If this plane is the plane I think it is I've pumped some of the fuel sitting in the wings
I got bumped to one of those flights, it was fucking glorious.
Makes sense: every seat on Air Canada is business class priced.
Hell yeah!!
No mullets here.
TIL business class today is economy from the 80's.
Wish all airliners were like this that would be awesome.
I was on a similar plane last Sunday. Perhaps same plane. I talked to the first office and stewardess and both told me it was the Oilers charter flight. They had put it into service as the other plane was under maintenance. It was amazing flight. The back section had seats facing each other with tables. Emergency exit had so much space.
As an FA, this is a nightmare because everyone wants to feel important, and someone has to get the last choice of entree.