I was going to vote anyway, but I would say I’ll now be damn sure I do. Biden did terribly and that scares me into thinking that less people will vote for him. So I’m more likely to vote, however I live in Louisiana so my vote doesn’t really count anyway sadly.
The reality is that a voter in Wyoming has about 30X the influence on the presidential election compared to someone in California. The electoral college system is beyond broken.
It was "intended" to balance out the voters desires (the House of Reps) with state Govt desires (each state gets the same number of senators chosen by the State Govts). The Federal Govt used to be more akin to what the EU is for Europe; an alliance states stay with because it's mutually beneficial. US states were considered independent Governments more than sub regions of the nation.
Civil war ended that- now states are subject to the Federal Govt much more closely. So it no longer makes sense why a voter in Wyoming gets significantly more representation than a voter in Georgia when ultimately the laws that Congress passed apply equally to both citizens. And it makes no sense to have the president decided by states instead of people, since states are no longer "independent Govts working together" but "sub regions of, and subject to, federal laws"
Mostly right. Civil war didn’t nullify the constitution though. The federal government cedes powers not granted to it by the constitution to the states.
By itself, no. But when you take all of the electoral votes of those small states that always vote red the eand add them up to equal the amount California has and then realize that all those states combined have a smaller population, you'll see why this does matter. Even though it might not be 30x, the voting power of people in small states is much greater.
This so much. Now I HAVE to make sure I vote, if only to make up for the young people who don't give a shit about their country or what happens to them and their little sphere of existence.
All to generate the main discussion of cognitive decline and just accepting that a dementia patient vs your old and tired grandpa, and you as a youth think they are the same.
It’s called a generation gap for a reason. Someone in the 70s, 60s, 50s would never associate anyone younger than themselves unless they were forced to or if they were family. So they won’t trust what the younger people say. It’s all about putting people up for election that match majority of the population and currently that’s Old, senile, or just old. some are still working jobs that they should have retired from a long time ago.
Anyone dissuaded from voting for biden were never going to vote for Biden in the first place , anyone disuaded from voting for trump from the debates is a plus.
Net 0 loss from debate; + people take the election far more seriously win win,
People really need a brush up on civics lesson. The president isn’t a king; who really runs the country are his cabinet members, and I’d trust bidens cabinet members over trumps any day.
I'm also in Louisiana and will be voting for Biden. I look at what each administration has accomplished when considering who to vote for. Not a debate. I'm not voting for a debater, I'm voting for president. Debates are pretty useless at determining how good a president will be tbh.
Let's look at some things the Biden administration accomplished...
- The American Rescue Plan funded our national vaccination campaign and helped safely reopen America’s schools.
- THE BIPARTISAN INFRASTRUCTURE LAW rebuild our nation’s roads and bridges, upgrade our public transit, clean up pollution, and provide high-speed internet to every American.
- The Bipartisan Safer Communities Act is the most significant gun violence prevention legislation in 30 years. It will help keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people, narrow the “boyfriend loophole,” and expand mental health and safety services in schools.
- The CHIPS Act will bring back manufacturing from overseas and create good-paying union jobs here at home. Since President Biden signed it into law, companies have already announced almost $300 billion in new American manufacturing investments.
- President Biden signed into law the most significant expansion of benefits and services for toxic-exposed veterans in more than 30 years.
- President Biden signed the Respect for Marriage Act to enshrine marriage equality for same-sex and interracial couples into federal law.
- President Biden signed landmark legislation to bring down costs for families, lower prescription drug prices, and make historic investments in American clean energy jobs and manufacturing. Every single Republican in Congress voted against it.
- President Biden pardoned all prior federal offenses of simple marijuana possession, removing a burden to employment, housing, and educational opportunities for thousands of Americans
- President Biden has worked to protect and strengthen the Affordable Care Act. Now, millions of Americans are saving $800 per year on their health insurance and 4-in-5 Americans can find coverage for $10 a month or less through the ACA.
These are just a handful of the accomplishments passed by Biden. THIS is what I'm voting for. Not someone who can make snarky quips, lie, and have sex with porn stars.
The stuff about his performance is exaggerated anyway. Here's some recent videos of President Biden where he is eloquent, composed and has great presence.
[2024 State of the Union2024 State of the Union](https://www.youtube.com/live/PH3DBdwFvj4)
[2024 White House correspondents’ dinner speech](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWRBdk7urxo)
[Campaign Event in Blue Bell, Pennsylvania - January 5, 2024](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slzlNRY-k-E)
[speech in Columbia, SC on January 27, 2024](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq6HeBLgrtI)
[President Biden addresses the nation on Israel-Hamas war & Ukraine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pkapvWfTsw&t=3749s)
[President Joe Biden Delivers Speech in Ballina, Ireland](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtPvYNR1UQI&t=674s)
All within about the last year.
The debate was somewhat anomalous, and hyper-exaggerated by the corpo media.
Our government is not the President. There are tens of thousands of individuals and institutions that effect your day to day life waaaaaaaay more than the President.
I look at who the President, any President, brings to the administration. The calm, professionals that have served in the Biden administration and re-established order after the chaos of the Trump administration tells you what you need to know. Look at the insane amount of turnover from the Trump administration versus Biden administration. How many Trump administration members could not get Senate approval so they just said "fuck it" and illegally placed those people in improper positions anyway? I don't remember Hunter Biden needing to revise a Top Secret clearance form 30 times because of all the dirt the FBI kept finding.
FFS, Trump had 4, fucking 4, Chiefs of Staff. The position that is the ultimate gatekeeper and keeps the President on track day to day and needs to be an absolute beast of organization and administration with long established relationships with every power player around. Trump went through one every year like it was a temp agency secretary.
And how many in Trump's administration have been convicted of crimes or are awaiting trials? A shitload.
It's not even close when you back out and look at the whole versus the individual.
And what did those chiefs of staff have to say after they left the position? They say he is unfit, unstable and shouldn't be allowed on the Oval ever again. Im with them
Trump surrounded himself with shitty advisers, racists, conmen, and grifters. His cabinet was fucking awful and actually did the work. Trump just signed the legislation.
I hate it but this is our reality. Biden and the democrats with some competant people is government
OR
A goddamn train wreck. That we only have to look at history of trumps first term and what he says now.
If you don't vote for anyone, you might as well have voted for trump and the GQP.
All we have to look at is the idiocy of the general populace that thinks the President holds the reigns on all the myriad of variables that make the country run. In Trumps case, it's a bit more true, because he just fires people and doesn't respect the other offices in the administration. General populace doesn't realize that the president is a figurehead and a speaker, they treat it like voting for a dictator which is not what it is.
End of the day, it's pathetic that we have to pick between these two, and this is not real democracy. I would get rid of half the people running the country because it's very obvious that they have lost the plot.
Obama was more charismatic and made the country feel better, but otherwise was relatively ineffective as a president. I can't think of any notable thing he did other than DACA and ObamaCare, and both of those led to and enabled our current issue with presidents wielding unbelievable power with executive orders.
I've enjoyed Biden's presidency much more. He hasn't done anything flashy, but he's placed people in places to slowly course correct us. And that's exactly what we needed. Someone who could be a manager. Not someone to lead a movement.
Also adding that DACA came with a backdoor allowing it to be dismantled later (as a concession to the GOP) and ACA was famously hamstrung from pandering to the insurance lobbies that funded centrists on both sides of the aisle, and was the clusterfuck it was because of it.
Biden is cut from the same cloth. A lot of talk and feel good policy points, but little substantive, and less with balls (or ovaries, as the case may be).
>A lot of talk and feel good policy points, but little substantive
I will say, I somewhat agree that Biden likes talking big action, but then not taking big action.
I think it comes down to the fact that being a good bureaucrat is not gonna win hearts and minds, even if it makes you a good president. If I remember correctly, he was mostly campaigning on "stability" during the election, but I've noticed a shift as his approval ratings have dipped and wavered.
"Big changes need to be made, but I'm not that man" is not a very sexy campaign slogan. Still, it would be better not to promise big actions if you don't have the bandwidth or means of accomplishing big action.
Look into what this administration has dealt with and accomplished and it's clearly more successful than the Obama administration. Obama might seem sharper and more charismatic and all that as an individual but look at the results. Biden is the best Democrat President since LBJ.
Biden was able to foster cooperation with the Republican Party to pass infrastructure and inflation legislation; Mitch McConnell was still committed to making sure Obama was a 1-term president through 2015.
I was voting regardless and either way, Biden had my vote, debate or not. Cause the alternative (another bout of the Trump administration) is fucking horrible.
My presidential votes for the foreseeable future will be for trying to balance the Supreme Court. That's the single most important issue that a President has direct control of.
Trump seated three justices. Two are obviously unfit and the other one is up for debate. If that continues it'll take 30+ years to fix.
Exactly. The president needs to be competent but he's also the head of a team of people who know what they're doing too. Trump's previous administration has almost entirely turned on him, and also has more than 50 of his former allies and associates are either facing criminal charges or have already been convicted. The man's a crook and so are his friends.
I'm still voting. It's a reminder that the Presidency is not a single person, but an entire apparatus of hundreds of appointments that pick tens of thousands of other people to run the Government.
I have no reason to believe that Trump isn't going to put people as unqualified as an oil baron to be his top diplomat and a man with an animal sciences degree in charge of our nuclear arsenal again.
Oil baron head of Trump EPA before being head of EPA "the EPA is useless we should dissolve it". Oil baron after heading EPA. EPA IS ACTUALLY IMPORTANT DON'T DO AWAY WITH IT. Literally takes direct first hand experience to maybe possibly change these people's minds.
Last night was not good for Biden, but I'm continuing to remind myself that it was the presentation that was bad. The information he was trying to convey, the policies, the intent and support is all still good -for the most part- and valued. Yes, he's old and shaky, but full of facts and knowledge and respect for the office. It's still a clear choice, but damn the DNC needs to make sure they have some people waiting for the torch to be passed off to.
Thank you for saying this. That's really the summary from last night: *he looked old.*
Did Trump convey a vision for the future? Did he seem calm, reasonable, insightful? No. He was his same-old batsh\*t nuts felon self. The best he could do was deny all the awful things he's done ("I didn't sleep with a porn star") and rant and rave about how there's nobody here any more except Mexican immigrants. He didn't win, he just didn't seem old.
Two things: Obama got his ass handed to him in 2012. I watched it live, and I couldn't believe it--he got stomped by Mitt Romney, of all people. Mr. Eloquence himself got beat by Mitt. There's precedence for this. I'm honestly hopeful Joe can turn it around. People have short memories and Joe needs to seem peppier. I have faith he'll do so, and in the meantime, Trump will continue to be Trump--that is, he'll disgust more and more people.
One other thing, because it's the one thing that had me yelling at my screen last night: Trump said some deranged nonsense about how everyone said his tweet calling off the J6 attackers was so good, or something like that. **Here is the truth: the attack on our Capitol start right before 1pm, and Trump watched the entire thing on television, and made no effort to call off his followers until hours later. He watched the attack** ***live*** **on Fox News. Disgusting.**
The debate doesn’t matter. We don’t need to argue about who would hypothetically make a better president because we’ve seen both of them as president.
One guy filled his administration with his kids, who took bribes from China, Russia, and the Saudis. Same guy who exposed highly classified national secrets by violating federal law and keeping them at an insecure facility. Also bragged last night about deregulation and couldn’t give a fuck about climate change.
Who gives a fuck about a debate. We’ve seen them both perform the job.
There are far bigger consequences if Trump is elected to another term. That’s it. That’s the bottom line. It’s not about supporting Biden, it’s about keeping Trump out of power. I will never in my life vote for a Republican administration or government representative.
I’m voting for the least awful choice. Biden wins that comparison easily. Democracy is “the great experiment”. Experiments can fail. With Trump, it will fail. At least with Biden our democracy will remain intact…
They are both senile and riddled with dementia. That is undisputable.
HOWEVER, one candidate listens to advisors. The other one actively does the opposite of anything their advisors says and has tried to uproot American democracy once before.
If you want your vote to matter in 4 years then we only have one option this year. Sucks...
We aren’t fucked if we vote for Biden, we are fucked if we vote for Trump. Acting like our government is just a cult of personality and not policy is a gross misunderstanding.
Just absolutely batshit takes about good policies supported by an old man, or horrendous policies and the open destruction of representative government supported by an old man.
I already wasn’t voting for either candidate because I didn’t view them as capable or morally respectable. Last night’s debate was a complete confirmation of that perspective a just made me triple down. Absolutely insane that as younger individuals these are the best two choices we are given.
I was gonna vote anyways and this made me wanna vote even harder.
I’m gonna sign up to do postcards as well because we really need more people paying attention. We shouldn’t have a convicted felon as president.
In Arkansas and in the same boat. Honestly, with how much everyone screams about *needing* to vote, most people are in that same situation. Unless they live in a purple state, their vote is essentially symbolic.
Biden could literally be a moldy ham sandwich and I’m *still* going to vote for him.* I can’t do another four years of President Mango Manbaby and new stupid controversies every single day, and that’s not even getting into the existential threat that Project 2025 is to our democracy.
*He’s definitely not a moldy ham sandwich, Biden’s actually been an incredibly good President. Probably the best of my lifetime.
We’re fucked no matter what we do. The cope from democrats is palpable. The arrogance of republicans is astounding. It honestly disgusts me that the people of this nation are going to vote for one of these people in the millions. I have completely lost all confidence in both the US government and the people of this nation.
If you want to see the fate of democracy, look out the window.
PROJECT 2025 aka the Neo Con, fascist manifesto should be enough reason to vote for Biden. Basically all the conservative stink tanks are working together and planning a hostile takeover, it is a 930 page document dripping in nightmare fuel
That's how I have felt most of my life here in Texas as a Democrat but we are gradually becoming more competitive. I think we are at the point where Democrats here can no longer justify sitting Presidential elections out because of the Electoral College.
Hey, cool! Tbf my state (MD) votes overwhelmingly the way I do, which is good. I'll still vote. I just feel like my vote should count the same way votes in swing states do
I’m still voting. One thing has always been clear, it’s not about keeping Biden in, it’s about keeping Trump out.
Biden said something that kind of hit me last night… he said to Trump, “no president has ever spoken like that…”, while I may not like him, he’s trying to keep a shred of decency and dignity for the executive office. Trump just wants to blow the whole thing up.
Biden is establishment, but right now that’s less bad than Trump blowing it all up, at least in my opinion.
Voting for Jill Stein of the Green Party. Last night was the predicted result of a failed lesser evilism strategy over past 24+ years of election cycles and bipartisan collusion to silence third party and indie/alternative politics.
The cope defense of corporate neoliberalism has been pretty funny. How's stabbing Occupy and Bernie in the back working out for you guys? Lol they deserve everything they get.
In fairness, Bernie endorsed Clinton and Biden and then supported genocide in Palestine. I agree with the overall sentiment though. No one in this thread is willing to admit that Biden and the Dems are just as oppositional to actual democracy as Trump is. We don't have democracy in the first place.
The zeitgeist of reddit is so weird, dude. You'll run into people who claim to be DemSoc or other leftists but will fight tooth and nail for corporate neoliberalism. I never hear them talk about any institutional reform or express any outrage or push for reforms it is just blind acceptance of whatever the DNC wants.
Yesterday is an amazing example of how we are absolutely failing our democracy.
If you truly felt either candidate performed well, or you truly like your candidate, you are a victim of groupthink and propaganda.
And suggesting one candidate is evil as a distraction of your choice candidate’s utter failure is nothing but a distraction.
I just hope that these acts of petty divisiveness get seen for what they are and we as Americans try to find real candidates to lead our country out of this gerontocratic freak show.
It does make me wanna vote more so we can keep the felon out of office… MAGA scares me more than anything rn. Biden could literally sleep for the next four years in the White House and I would be a-okay with that over Donald Trump and Project 2025
After last night, if nothing changes with the candidates, it’s more important that we look at who the candidate is surrounded by, and what their beliefs are, and vote for the team we have more faith in.
Absolutely going to vote. No debate, no matter how disastrous, could change my mind on that. I also think this is a great reminder to vote in your LOCAL elections — the ones that have a higher probability of directly impacting your community.
I'll admit it, as strange as it is, I am actually thinking more about my local politics and community now. I have no idea what will happen at large, so shoring up local support will make me feel better.
I’m still voting for Biden, but not enthusiastically. Even as a doddering old man, he’s still preferable to an insecure, malignant narcissist with delusions of autocracy and a felony conviction. I actually don’t think Biden has done that bad of a job, once you take into account that there are a lot of things that the President can’t control. Still, there is a very disappointing lack of visionary and YOUNG leadership in this country that I really wish would change. Not to be ageist but I feel like I’m watching the mummy.
The debate held no surprises and I will still of course vote like any rational citizen should. Emotions play no role except that I got a few laughs out of it.
Makes me happier with the choice I made: I'm going to be doing election work in Nevada starting in mid-July. I had the option of the Biden campaign or Jacky Rosen's Senate re-election campaign. Working on the Senate feels way more fulfilling and likely more important given judges and general nonsense from last night. And if I play a role as a worker in a Rosen re-election win, it helps Biden too and does so without me feeling icky about working directly after that debate performance
The Democrats have finally lost me. I’ve been voting for them since 2000. Not anymore. I’ll go 3rd party to make a point. I don’t know where we are going but we can’t stay here.
I wasn't going to vote for either of them anyway, and all last night showed me is that neither of them are fit for office. I would advise pressuring the DNC into finding someone else because Biden's unwillingness to do right by the American people is a bad look.
It is making me say fuck it and just vote 3rd party. I'm throwing my vote away if I vote for either of them. Might as well vote for someone I believe in. I was hoping the debate last night would make me feel differently.
I stick with the following position:
Vote your conscience in the primaries.
Vote strategically during the general.
Just do what you can to get the latter to align to the former outside of the election.
Biden is old yes, he will probably be replaced by the next in line for the democrats. Trump is a psychopath, he will unleash hell on America. You Americans should have a simple choice here..
Here are my thoughts on voting in this election. If you live in a saying state you really should vote and probably should vote for Joe. You can disagree with his policies but the guy isn't unhinged and unpredictable. You know what you are getting with Joe.
I don't live in a swing state and likely will not vote for either candidate. I believe that voting in a democracy gives legitimacy to the government and I think our system is so broken it does not deserve the small bit of legitimacy that my individual vote would mean.
Biden is the best President we have had in decades. He has done more for working families than Obama did, and certainly more than Clinton or any of the Republican administrations we have had from Reagan on. He is the best President we have had since LBJ.
I was voting RFK no matter what. But considering he met all the requirements to debate, despite CNN moving the goal post, and they still excluded him, I'm gonna go ahead and say democracy is dead in America. It was already on life support. We have one party pretending to be two, with people treating them like a sports team. It’s pathetic.
I mean, I'm still voting. And I'm still voting against Trump.
If anything, It turned a general hatred for Biden and his poor decision-making skills into pity. It's hard to look at that and say *anything* is still his fault.
Even though things like the Iraq war, student loans, and Police are absolutely still his fault, that was all decades ago now. He doesn't remember who he was then, and holding on to anger about any of it isnt helping anything.
The president simply determines the party that determines the heads of the different departments within the government, and decides who the Supreme Court nominees are. Republicans are all off their fucking rocker. I'll take ANY democrat over the BEST Republican.
I will vote for Biden’s skeleton before I ever vote for Trump. Am I sad with the current choices and was I disappointed last night? Yes but it doesn’t take away the fact that Trump is a liar and dodged several of the questions he was asked.
In no way is Biden being old affecting my vote, which is based on caring about specific policy outcomes and judicial appointments.
That was entertainment for the commentariat and terminally online people who are too busy fucking around to notice what actually matters here.
People who protest by staying home and not voting = GG you're just rolling over and letting other folks vote *for* you. Like I still think they should be able to complain about policy because the policies still affect them, but...you had an opportunity to let your opinion be known at the ballot box. *You didn't take it*
I'm going to be voting against Trump. Fuck Trump. Fuck him *and* his base *and* the people in power who are enabling him. I still hold out hope for an actual Progressive candidate but if it comes down to Biden vs Trump ***again***, I'll pinch my nose and vote for Biden on election day
Biden at his worst is still a superior choice. He surrounds himself with smart people and has the country’s best interests at heart. There is a world of difference between these two.
We have a stock market on the rise, lower inflation than other countries, like do the ducking right thing I do t care how slow he talks
I’ll still vote against the blatant fascist. But we’re fucked.
The previous generations have left us with scraps. Our (I don’t have) kids will have nothing. I’m pretty fortunate in my life but this is dismal. Maybe I’m just having a midlife crisis but I just don’t see a way for this to turn around.
I will never not vote again fascism. The Dems could run a broom with an upturned bucket for a head and I'd still vote for it (so long as its platform was acceptable.
But I think we may have a different candidate by the convention. We will see
We literally need a protest vote movement.
Please everyone vote for ANYONE else otherwise we will be stuck here waiting for boomers to die. We need rank voice voting!
##protestvote #fuckboomerpresidents
I'm voting based on Supreme Court nominations, mostly. I have always hated the better of two evils angle, but I think I'm going to have to vote Biden and vote for candidates locally that represent my interests better. Project 2025 scares the heck out of me, and if voting Biden means that doesn't happen, so be it. Maybe he'll die in a couple of years, and we'll just have to deal with Kamala for a bit until 2028 when we can get fresher candidates. :/
Bidens stutter is something stupid people latch onto because they can’t comprehend that someone with a stutter is actually one of the better leaders of our lifetime. In the face of everything Biden has had to fight through he still gave us student debt relief, pardons of service members convicted of being gay under DADT, he has cucked Russia, saved Ukraine from being over run, and put China in its place with Taiwan
AND ALL THIS WITH THE TRAITOROUS MAGA PARTY trying to stop him at every single step of the way.
Y’all need to stop being such unintelligent snowflakes and see reality
Look at our fucking Supreme Court after 4 years of Trump. Roe v Wade overturned, now they are in broad daylight taking bribes without fear of repercussions. Biden is old (so is Donald), but he's at least civil, ethical and tries to govern our country.
Vote third party. Doesn't even matter who (although RFK would be a leading choice). But we need to make a showing that the people reject the two party system.
And don't let people fear monger saying a vote for a third party is just a vote for the "other" guy. But a vote for either of them is a vote for the system that continually puts them in place.
So if we want a change, then we need to quit being scared and actually make the moves that get change.
Support ranked choice voting and stop voting for people you know you don't like. They are not entitled to your vote.
If all these people who are abstaining from voting, voted 3rd party we would easily surpass 5% and qualifiy for more federal funding amd be invited to the debates. That would be huge for progress on getting more choices to lead our country and ranked choice voting.
Absolutely. Ranked choice voting would make such a significant difference but we won't get it if we just keep doing the same thing every election.
Everyone is afraid of "wasting" their vote or letting the "other" guy win.
Not voting this year. Both the choices are awful its not worth my 20 minutes. Biden lied to me about student loans and he deserves to be sued for the amount of loan relief he promised and bankrupted to pay for it. Fucking lying inept sack of garbage, he knew exactly what would happen. He knew he couldn't get that to pass but he lied to get elected. I hate him with every ounce of me. Trumps gonna win, millions of ppl like me pissed at this liar.
That's the entire point of the disinformation campaigns being pushed super hard on social media, to discourage and demoralize you into not voting. Fuck the bad actors and foreign adversaries who want to tear our nation down.
Vote. Don't let those fucking losers win.
How powerful is voting? Literally the nations of Russia, Iran, and China have active psychological ops going on to keep you from voting. They are terrified you will vote because that's what keeps America strong.
it's not the media that's keeping most people from voting, it's our completely destroyed political system that has resulted in two terrible candidates to choose from. How much other nations in the world have to do with that, I'm not sure but Citizen's United has got to be reversed soon or we're going to pass the point of no return.
Independent here. Still voting and voting Trump.
The Democratic Party is in freefall right now and will try their best to replace Biden even though they put him in there knowing how braindead he is. Bernie should have been the nominee the last three elections.
So dumb...
Bidens administration is just as incompetent as he is. Pissing money away to police the world has made the last 4 years difficult for a lot of Americans. People vote with their wallet, and Biden didn’t show any indication of trying to alleviate inflation or any of the other financial struggles we’re dealing with. I’m sure Trump wouldn’t help that either but it’s a moot point after last night. That debate just tanked the election for the democrats. If they don’t run someone else, Trump is going to win big.
Everyone is concerned with Biden’s age and how it showed last night but Trump’s performance was also extremely concerning. If you actually listen to what he said, he answered very few questions and gave a ton of misleading and false information just to satisfy his base. At least I could tell Biden was smart and knew what he was talking about even if he wasn’t as charismatic and was a bit slow. It has me more convinced to vote democrat no matter who the name on the ballot is because I’m not ok with another Trump presidency.
Hearing Trump repeat lies that have been disproven many times over makes me sure I will vote against him. Biden didn't do to well, but I'd rather shit in my hand and clap than vote for that Rapist, felon and fascist.
Before you consider the president, and consider the supreme court, last time Trump added a bunch, and he'll do it again, fuck Biden being old, vote or we'll have a corrupt SCOTUS for the majority of our lives.
Several points which I try to keep close:
The debate doesn’t change all the things Biden has accomplished already (regardless of how it appears on tv or social media)
Trump still lied on about pretty much everything he said, even if the moderator didn’t push him on it.
Biden’s performance doesn’t change the fact that Trump was criminally convicted of felonies, has helped persuaded and incite an attempted insurrection of the government and invalidate and strike down a major election, all things no President including Biden has ever done.
Even in the worst case scenario of Biden’s total failing cognitive function, which is not the case yet, he still surrounds himself with competent advisors and cabinet members that do take their oath to democracy seriously, while with Trump’s clear signs of cognitive decline and deterioration, he surrounds himself with cult-like sycophants and hate mongers who have helped implement harmful, plainly cruel policies, most of whom are either criminally convicted themselves or resigned Trump’s administration / campaign describing just how unwell, unstable and unhinged he was while working for him.
Not Voting for Biden further opens the door to handing total government powers to an authoritarian and autocratic regime who have boldly said and boasted they intend to do away with the Constitution and democracy in the U.S., even if Biden, who does and continues to uphold democracy and make improvements and accomplishments, doesn’t look vibrant or impressive on tv or social media.
I’ll absolutely vote Democrat because the levers of power matter more than anything. That said, Biden is unfit for office and will lose unless he is replaced.
365 comments in this thread, 0 of which are pro-Trump. I’m personally voting with PSL for Claudia De La Cruz, but the censorship in this subreddit is astounding.
I vote specifically with an eye on judicial nominations, executive staffing, and international relations. So, no, voting the same as I was planning on doing so.
In regards to the Presidential election, I was saying that before this debate.
I live in a red state anyway, so I was never under any delusion my Presidential vote would actually matter. I'm voting because of local powers and ballot initiatives and not because I think either of those dumbasses should be in the oval office. I'll vote 3rd party for that since (again) my Pres. vote in a solid red (or solid blue) state means jack shit. Everyone who doesn't live in a purple state might as well do the same.
Biden could shit and eat his pants and I would still vote for him. The stakes are entirely too high. This isn't like giving an election to a 2012 Republican. These are dangerous times and they will remain so as long as MAGA Republicans are in power.
That debate almost made me side with Trump it was so bad. lol.
I'm still voting for whoevers on the democrat side (honestly I wish they'd swap him out for someone better... I think a younger candidate could win on that alone) , and ultimately its biden's cabinet I'm really voting for anwyay.... Its not like joe biden is the one actually RUNNING the country, just like the CEO at my job isn't really running the company. without all of us hardworking employees under him , the company would cease to exist.
What trump did last night was impressive in that he was able to respond to every question in a way that made him sound good. Was he telling the truth? Fuck no, but that's not a bar he strives for and it works just fine for his own base. His party has convinced themselves that doctors are lying to us about vaccines, scientists are lying to us about the climate, The media is lying to us about HIM, people in government are lying to us, the whole justice system and voting are rigged.. when you live in this world of "everyone is lying to you becuase they don't want trump to be successful!" , you can say whatever the fuck you want and they'll eat it up.
I think one thing important to remember is that the joe biden you saw on stage last night. the one who worried ALL of us about his ability to lead a country.... he's already doing and and HAS BEEN for the past 4 years and we're in a relatively stable place. Covid is under control becuase we're vaccinated, the economy is doing well (I know a lot of US aren't, but our 401Ks if we have them are at least) , you're not hearing every day about some crazy shit the president said on live TV , he's been impeached 2 less times than the previous president....
Is joe biden the president we WANT right now? Not really... but he's good enough and if anything happened to him, I wouldn't worry too much about our fate in the hands of Kamala either.
I wasn't going to vote in the first place, but even more appalled at liberals than I was before. Both candidates support genocide and corporate authoritarianism, and the mental gymnastics required to rationalize this away is astounding. It's like I'm getting to witness how a society, like that of the Weimar Republic, can go completely insane.
I was going to vote anyway, but I would say I’ll now be damn sure I do. Biden did terribly and that scares me into thinking that less people will vote for him. So I’m more likely to vote, however I live in Louisiana so my vote doesn’t really count anyway sadly.
***however I live in Louisiana so my vote doesn’t really count anyway sadly.*** Yep...mine won't count in my state either.
The reality is that a voter in Wyoming has about 30X the influence on the presidential election compared to someone in California. The electoral college system is beyond broken.
It’s not broken: it’s working exactly as it’s intended to.
It was "intended" to balance out the voters desires (the House of Reps) with state Govt desires (each state gets the same number of senators chosen by the State Govts). The Federal Govt used to be more akin to what the EU is for Europe; an alliance states stay with because it's mutually beneficial. US states were considered independent Governments more than sub regions of the nation. Civil war ended that- now states are subject to the Federal Govt much more closely. So it no longer makes sense why a voter in Wyoming gets significantly more representation than a voter in Georgia when ultimately the laws that Congress passed apply equally to both citizens. And it makes no sense to have the president decided by states instead of people, since states are no longer "independent Govts working together" but "sub regions of, and subject to, federal laws"
Mostly right. Civil war didn’t nullify the constitution though. The federal government cedes powers not granted to it by the constitution to the states.
Not really. Wyoming’s 3 electoral votes doesn’t make a damn difference
He's prolly talking about the Senate getting the same seats and california
Gotcha.
He specifically said the electoral college. Not senate.
Senate was originally meant to represent the states themselves, not the people.
By itself, no. But when you take all of the electoral votes of those small states that always vote red the eand add them up to equal the amount California has and then realize that all those states combined have a smaller population, you'll see why this does matter. Even though it might not be 30x, the voting power of people in small states is much greater.
It’s pretty equal for the most part. Dems have all those northeast states too that have a population of 5 as well.
California has 54 electors, Wyoming has 3. I think you got things backwards
You down ballot races might count though!
This so much. Now I HAVE to make sure I vote, if only to make up for the young people who don't give a shit about their country or what happens to them and their little sphere of existence.
All to generate the main discussion of cognitive decline and just accepting that a dementia patient vs your old and tired grandpa, and you as a youth think they are the same. It’s called a generation gap for a reason. Someone in the 70s, 60s, 50s would never associate anyone younger than themselves unless they were forced to or if they were family. So they won’t trust what the younger people say. It’s all about putting people up for election that match majority of the population and currently that’s Old, senile, or just old. some are still working jobs that they should have retired from a long time ago. Anyone dissuaded from voting for biden were never going to vote for Biden in the first place , anyone disuaded from voting for trump from the debates is a plus. Net 0 loss from debate; + people take the election far more seriously win win, People really need a brush up on civics lesson. The president isn’t a king; who really runs the country are his cabinet members, and I’d trust bidens cabinet members over trumps any day.
I don't agree with most of what you said but you got my upvoted anyway because that last paragraph is absolutely correct in every way.
I'm also in Louisiana and will be voting for Biden. I look at what each administration has accomplished when considering who to vote for. Not a debate. I'm not voting for a debater, I'm voting for president. Debates are pretty useless at determining how good a president will be tbh. Let's look at some things the Biden administration accomplished... - The American Rescue Plan funded our national vaccination campaign and helped safely reopen America’s schools. - THE BIPARTISAN INFRASTRUCTURE LAW rebuild our nation’s roads and bridges, upgrade our public transit, clean up pollution, and provide high-speed internet to every American. - The Bipartisan Safer Communities Act is the most significant gun violence prevention legislation in 30 years. It will help keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people, narrow the “boyfriend loophole,” and expand mental health and safety services in schools. - The CHIPS Act will bring back manufacturing from overseas and create good-paying union jobs here at home. Since President Biden signed it into law, companies have already announced almost $300 billion in new American manufacturing investments. - President Biden signed into law the most significant expansion of benefits and services for toxic-exposed veterans in more than 30 years. - President Biden signed the Respect for Marriage Act to enshrine marriage equality for same-sex and interracial couples into federal law. - President Biden signed landmark legislation to bring down costs for families, lower prescription drug prices, and make historic investments in American clean energy jobs and manufacturing. Every single Republican in Congress voted against it. - President Biden pardoned all prior federal offenses of simple marijuana possession, removing a burden to employment, housing, and educational opportunities for thousands of Americans - President Biden has worked to protect and strengthen the Affordable Care Act. Now, millions of Americans are saving $800 per year on their health insurance and 4-in-5 Americans can find coverage for $10 a month or less through the ACA. These are just a handful of the accomplishments passed by Biden. THIS is what I'm voting for. Not someone who can make snarky quips, lie, and have sex with porn stars.
The stuff about his performance is exaggerated anyway. Here's some recent videos of President Biden where he is eloquent, composed and has great presence. [2024 State of the Union2024 State of the Union](https://www.youtube.com/live/PH3DBdwFvj4) [2024 White House correspondents’ dinner speech](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWRBdk7urxo) [Campaign Event in Blue Bell, Pennsylvania - January 5, 2024](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slzlNRY-k-E) [speech in Columbia, SC on January 27, 2024](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq6HeBLgrtI) [President Biden addresses the nation on Israel-Hamas war & Ukraine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pkapvWfTsw&t=3749s) [President Joe Biden Delivers Speech in Ballina, Ireland](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtPvYNR1UQI&t=674s) All within about the last year. The debate was somewhat anomalous, and hyper-exaggerated by the corpo media.
Our government is not the President. There are tens of thousands of individuals and institutions that effect your day to day life waaaaaaaay more than the President. I look at who the President, any President, brings to the administration. The calm, professionals that have served in the Biden administration and re-established order after the chaos of the Trump administration tells you what you need to know. Look at the insane amount of turnover from the Trump administration versus Biden administration. How many Trump administration members could not get Senate approval so they just said "fuck it" and illegally placed those people in improper positions anyway? I don't remember Hunter Biden needing to revise a Top Secret clearance form 30 times because of all the dirt the FBI kept finding. FFS, Trump had 4, fucking 4, Chiefs of Staff. The position that is the ultimate gatekeeper and keeps the President on track day to day and needs to be an absolute beast of organization and administration with long established relationships with every power player around. Trump went through one every year like it was a temp agency secretary. And how many in Trump's administration have been convicted of crimes or are awaiting trials? A shitload. It's not even close when you back out and look at the whole versus the individual.
And what did those chiefs of staff have to say after they left the position? They say he is unfit, unstable and shouldn't be allowed on the Oval ever again. Im with them
Trump surrounded himself with shitty advisers, racists, conmen, and grifters. His cabinet was fucking awful and actually did the work. Trump just signed the legislation. I hate it but this is our reality. Biden and the democrats with some competant people is government OR A goddamn train wreck. That we only have to look at history of trumps first term and what he says now. If you don't vote for anyone, you might as well have voted for trump and the GQP.
All we have to look at is the idiocy of the general populace that thinks the President holds the reigns on all the myriad of variables that make the country run. In Trumps case, it's a bit more true, because he just fires people and doesn't respect the other offices in the administration. General populace doesn't realize that the president is a figurehead and a speaker, they treat it like voting for a dictator which is not what it is. End of the day, it's pathetic that we have to pick between these two, and this is not real democracy. I would get rid of half the people running the country because it's very obvious that they have lost the plot.
All the negative narratives about Biden are bullshit, anyway. He is the best President we have had in a long time.
Well, the best one since Obama at least...
Obama was more charismatic and made the country feel better, but otherwise was relatively ineffective as a president. I can't think of any notable thing he did other than DACA and ObamaCare, and both of those led to and enabled our current issue with presidents wielding unbelievable power with executive orders. I've enjoyed Biden's presidency much more. He hasn't done anything flashy, but he's placed people in places to slowly course correct us. And that's exactly what we needed. Someone who could be a manager. Not someone to lead a movement.
Also adding that DACA came with a backdoor allowing it to be dismantled later (as a concession to the GOP) and ACA was famously hamstrung from pandering to the insurance lobbies that funded centrists on both sides of the aisle, and was the clusterfuck it was because of it. Biden is cut from the same cloth. A lot of talk and feel good policy points, but little substantive, and less with balls (or ovaries, as the case may be).
>A lot of talk and feel good policy points, but little substantive I will say, I somewhat agree that Biden likes talking big action, but then not taking big action. I think it comes down to the fact that being a good bureaucrat is not gonna win hearts and minds, even if it makes you a good president. If I remember correctly, he was mostly campaigning on "stability" during the election, but I've noticed a shift as his approval ratings have dipped and wavered. "Big changes need to be made, but I'm not that man" is not a very sexy campaign slogan. Still, it would be better not to promise big actions if you don't have the bandwidth or means of accomplishing big action.
Look into what this administration has dealt with and accomplished and it's clearly more successful than the Obama administration. Obama might seem sharper and more charismatic and all that as an individual but look at the results. Biden is the best Democrat President since LBJ.
Biden was able to foster cooperation with the Republican Party to pass infrastructure and inflation legislation; Mitch McConnell was still committed to making sure Obama was a 1-term president through 2015.
I'm voting for Biden as hard as I can
I was voting regardless and either way, Biden had my vote, debate or not. Cause the alternative (another bout of the Trump administration) is fucking horrible.
I don’t care if he’s old, I’m voting for the old guy with a competent cabinet instead of the old guy with the cabinet full of crooks and criminals.
My presidential votes for the foreseeable future will be for trying to balance the Supreme Court. That's the single most important issue that a President has direct control of. Trump seated three justices. Two are obviously unfit and the other one is up for debate. If that continues it'll take 30+ years to fix.
Yet another solid reason.
Exactly. The president needs to be competent but he's also the head of a team of people who know what they're doing too. Trump's previous administration has almost entirely turned on him, and also has more than 50 of his former allies and associates are either facing criminal charges or have already been convicted. The man's a crook and so are his friends.
Crooks and criminals who are openly trying to bypass the Constitution, strip away human rights, and make him an autocrat no less
Exactly, we’ve seen the ghouls he brings with him, hard pass on a round two for Trump.
This is the logic I’m using
This 👆
I'm still voting. It's a reminder that the Presidency is not a single person, but an entire apparatus of hundreds of appointments that pick tens of thousands of other people to run the Government. I have no reason to believe that Trump isn't going to put people as unqualified as an oil baron to be his top diplomat and a man with an animal sciences degree in charge of our nuclear arsenal again.
Oil baron head of Trump EPA before being head of EPA "the EPA is useless we should dissolve it". Oil baron after heading EPA. EPA IS ACTUALLY IMPORTANT DON'T DO AWAY WITH IT. Literally takes direct first hand experience to maybe possibly change these people's minds.
Last night was not good for Biden, but I'm continuing to remind myself that it was the presentation that was bad. The information he was trying to convey, the policies, the intent and support is all still good -for the most part- and valued. Yes, he's old and shaky, but full of facts and knowledge and respect for the office. It's still a clear choice, but damn the DNC needs to make sure they have some people waiting for the torch to be passed off to.
It’s also frustrating that everyone is talking about Biden being old but just glossing over the fact the CNN did nothing to fact check Trump
Thank you for saying this. That's really the summary from last night: *he looked old.* Did Trump convey a vision for the future? Did he seem calm, reasonable, insightful? No. He was his same-old batsh\*t nuts felon self. The best he could do was deny all the awful things he's done ("I didn't sleep with a porn star") and rant and rave about how there's nobody here any more except Mexican immigrants. He didn't win, he just didn't seem old. Two things: Obama got his ass handed to him in 2012. I watched it live, and I couldn't believe it--he got stomped by Mitt Romney, of all people. Mr. Eloquence himself got beat by Mitt. There's precedence for this. I'm honestly hopeful Joe can turn it around. People have short memories and Joe needs to seem peppier. I have faith he'll do so, and in the meantime, Trump will continue to be Trump--that is, he'll disgust more and more people. One other thing, because it's the one thing that had me yelling at my screen last night: Trump said some deranged nonsense about how everyone said his tweet calling off the J6 attackers was so good, or something like that. **Here is the truth: the attack on our Capitol start right before 1pm, and Trump watched the entire thing on television, and made no effort to call off his followers until hours later. He watched the attack** ***live*** **on Fox News. Disgusting.**
Biden could be on his deathbed and I'd still vote for him because of who will be in his administration.
The debate doesn’t matter. We don’t need to argue about who would hypothetically make a better president because we’ve seen both of them as president. One guy filled his administration with his kids, who took bribes from China, Russia, and the Saudis. Same guy who exposed highly classified national secrets by violating federal law and keeping them at an insecure facility. Also bragged last night about deregulation and couldn’t give a fuck about climate change. Who gives a fuck about a debate. We’ve seen them both perform the job.
There are far bigger consequences if Trump is elected to another term. That’s it. That’s the bottom line. It’s not about supporting Biden, it’s about keeping Trump out of power. I will never in my life vote for a Republican administration or government representative.
Still vote for Biden.
At least when Biden dies from old age 3 days into his second term, we will get someone who isn't trump or Biden. So there's that.
I’m voting for the least awful choice. Biden wins that comparison easily. Democracy is “the great experiment”. Experiments can fail. With Trump, it will fail. At least with Biden our democracy will remain intact…
They are both senile and riddled with dementia. That is undisputable. HOWEVER, one candidate listens to advisors. The other one actively does the opposite of anything their advisors says and has tried to uproot American democracy once before. If you want your vote to matter in 4 years then we only have one option this year. Sucks...
We aren’t fucked if we vote for Biden, we are fucked if we vote for Trump. Acting like our government is just a cult of personality and not policy is a gross misunderstanding.
Yup. Vote Biden or give our country over to Christian Nationalists for the next few terms and keep watching our liberties erode. Your choice.
Just absolutely batshit takes about good policies supported by an old man, or horrendous policies and the open destruction of representative government supported by an old man.
Did anybody watch the real debate?
I doubt it based on what people are posting. Sadly most of the popular subreddits are filled with bots.
Yeah that is sad.
I already wasn’t voting for either candidate because I didn’t view them as capable or morally respectable. Last night’s debate was a complete confirmation of that perspective a just made me triple down. Absolutely insane that as younger individuals these are the best two choices we are given.
I was gonna vote anyways and this made me wanna vote even harder. I’m gonna sign up to do postcards as well because we really need more people paying attention. We shouldn’t have a convicted felon as president.
Write some postcards! I've already written 150 and planning to write many more
I hate Biden with a passion but I rather have his administration versus a trump administration
It was NOT a debate. It was a debacle.
I live in Massachusetts. My vote doesn't matter.
In Arkansas and in the same boat. Honestly, with how much everyone screams about *needing* to vote, most people are in that same situation. Unless they live in a purple state, their vote is essentially symbolic.
Rmr duopoly is such a problem, "voting for the lesser of two evils" is dumb, and if more people voted outside of those choices we could do better.
Biden could literally be a moldy ham sandwich and I’m *still* going to vote for him.* I can’t do another four years of President Mango Manbaby and new stupid controversies every single day, and that’s not even getting into the existential threat that Project 2025 is to our democracy. *He’s definitely not a moldy ham sandwich, Biden’s actually been an incredibly good President. Probably the best of my lifetime.
We’re fucked no matter what we do. The cope from democrats is palpable. The arrogance of republicans is astounding. It honestly disgusts me that the people of this nation are going to vote for one of these people in the millions. I have completely lost all confidence in both the US government and the people of this nation. If you want to see the fate of democracy, look out the window.
Debates seem better-suited to a large field of contenders within one party. We didn't need an intro to either of the 2024 candidates.
I'll vote. Probably 3rd party. But I know we are f***ed
PROJECT 2025 aka the Neo Con, fascist manifesto should be enough reason to vote for Biden. Basically all the conservative stink tanks are working together and planning a hostile takeover, it is a 930 page document dripping in nightmare fuel
Yup. This is past about voting for the "right" President this election. This is about fucking survival. Keep Trump and his backers out.
r/defeat_project_2025
Anyone who votes for Trump this year is voting to end democracy and roll back civil rights for women, racial minorities, and LGBTQ folks.
I just continue to be pissed that my vote will mean literally nothing thanks to the dumbass electoral college
That's how I have felt most of my life here in Texas as a Democrat but we are gradually becoming more competitive. I think we are at the point where Democrats here can no longer justify sitting Presidential elections out because of the Electoral College.
Hey, cool! Tbf my state (MD) votes overwhelmingly the way I do, which is good. I'll still vote. I just feel like my vote should count the same way votes in swing states do
As a Washington voter, I feel your pain.
I’m still voting. One thing has always been clear, it’s not about keeping Biden in, it’s about keeping Trump out. Biden said something that kind of hit me last night… he said to Trump, “no president has ever spoken like that…”, while I may not like him, he’s trying to keep a shred of decency and dignity for the executive office. Trump just wants to blow the whole thing up. Biden is establishment, but right now that’s less bad than Trump blowing it all up, at least in my opinion.
Voting for Jill Stein of the Green Party. Last night was the predicted result of a failed lesser evilism strategy over past 24+ years of election cycles and bipartisan collusion to silence third party and indie/alternative politics.
The cope defense of corporate neoliberalism has been pretty funny. How's stabbing Occupy and Bernie in the back working out for you guys? Lol they deserve everything they get.
In fairness, Bernie endorsed Clinton and Biden and then supported genocide in Palestine. I agree with the overall sentiment though. No one in this thread is willing to admit that Biden and the Dems are just as oppositional to actual democracy as Trump is. We don't have democracy in the first place.
The zeitgeist of reddit is so weird, dude. You'll run into people who claim to be DemSoc or other leftists but will fight tooth and nail for corporate neoliberalism. I never hear them talk about any institutional reform or express any outrage or push for reforms it is just blind acceptance of whatever the DNC wants.
It really is weird. I feel like I'm watching my own generation turn into boomers.
It's like Theater Kid liberalism.
Two equally terrible options. Is this really the best we can do America?
Sadly we have to vote for biden so we don't have facisim again.
Yesterday is an amazing example of how we are absolutely failing our democracy. If you truly felt either candidate performed well, or you truly like your candidate, you are a victim of groupthink and propaganda. And suggesting one candidate is evil as a distraction of your choice candidate’s utter failure is nothing but a distraction.
We should be focused on changing voting law to create multiparty democracy
It didn't change anything for me. I'm still gonna vote independent.
I was always going to vote. We are still and will still be fucked.
I’m still voting.
I just hope that these acts of petty divisiveness get seen for what they are and we as Americans try to find real candidates to lead our country out of this gerontocratic freak show.
Dems scared Biden will fail in debate *Biden fails bigly* Voters : Holy fuck I gotta go vote after this, every vote counts Dems 😎
I’m in CA so my opinion doesn’t matter for presidential elections.
lol, we've always been fucked. Still voting for the geriatric guy who would fuck us up less.
It does make me wanna vote more so we can keep the felon out of office… MAGA scares me more than anything rn. Biden could literally sleep for the next four years in the White House and I would be a-okay with that over Donald Trump and Project 2025
Voting is the only way our government can work. It takes active involvement to work.
After last night, if nothing changes with the candidates, it’s more important that we look at who the candidate is surrounded by, and what their beliefs are, and vote for the team we have more faith in.
Absolutely going to vote. No debate, no matter how disastrous, could change my mind on that. I also think this is a great reminder to vote in your LOCAL elections — the ones that have a higher probability of directly impacting your community.
Gonna vote. I prefer my presidents not to be felons
Did you like the last 4 years or did you like the last, last 4 years?
I'll admit it, as strange as it is, I am actually thinking more about my local politics and community now. I have no idea what will happen at large, so shoring up local support will make me feel better.
I’m still voting for Biden, but not enthusiastically. Even as a doddering old man, he’s still preferable to an insecure, malignant narcissist with delusions of autocracy and a felony conviction. I actually don’t think Biden has done that bad of a job, once you take into account that there are a lot of things that the President can’t control. Still, there is a very disappointing lack of visionary and YOUNG leadership in this country that I really wish would change. Not to be ageist but I feel like I’m watching the mummy.
Not voting has never been an option for me.
The debate held no surprises and I will still of course vote like any rational citizen should. Emotions play no role except that I got a few laughs out of it.
I'll never not vote. Why would I not vote? Why would I throw away women's rights and get immigrants thrown in camps rather than fill in a bubble
Makes me happier with the choice I made: I'm going to be doing election work in Nevada starting in mid-July. I had the option of the Biden campaign or Jacky Rosen's Senate re-election campaign. Working on the Senate feels way more fulfilling and likely more important given judges and general nonsense from last night. And if I play a role as a worker in a Rosen re-election win, it helps Biden too and does so without me feeling icky about working directly after that debate performance
I’m trans and live in Michigan. I will crawl to the polls if I have to do so to vote for Biden.
Imma vote but I’m not going to be a proud American about it. Anything to keep the orange idiot out of office. I’d vote for a goose at this point.
The Democrats have finally lost me. I’ve been voting for them since 2000. Not anymore. I’ll go 3rd party to make a point. I don’t know where we are going but we can’t stay here.
I wasn't going to vote for either of them anyway, and all last night showed me is that neither of them are fit for office. I would advise pressuring the DNC into finding someone else because Biden's unwillingness to do right by the American people is a bad look.
If you are leaning to vote for Biden the please don't vote. Do it for the country's sake.
I, too, will vote for the guy who said he defeated Medicare because not having Medicare is way better than having orange dude.
So why am I paying taxes for Medicare if Biden beat it?
This debate made me sick to my stomach. Literally sick with worry. Still voting Biden, but damn I wish it wasn’t the case.
It is making me say fuck it and just vote 3rd party. I'm throwing my vote away if I vote for either of them. Might as well vote for someone I believe in. I was hoping the debate last night would make me feel differently.
I'll still vote. But I have resigned myself to the idea that we will have the president we deserve. I resigned myself to that idea some time ago.
I stick with the following position: Vote your conscience in the primaries. Vote strategically during the general. Just do what you can to get the latter to align to the former outside of the election.
I'm voting for Biden but not because of him. I'm voting against Trump, his crazy Christo Fascist backers, and Project 2025
I’m not even registered to vote anymore but when I was I voted 3rd party anyway
That debate was a dumpster fire. Neither should be able to run.
Definitely still voting. Biden could’ve dropped trou and taken a shit in the middle of it and I’m still voting for him over Trump.
It may me feel smart for deciding to vote third party a long time ago. Trump was never an option. Biden is unfit.
I dont normally do this, but I'm not voting for either. There isnt a better option. I dont like both of them. Neither should be president.
Naw, I'm voting libertarian.
Biden 1000000000000%
Biden is old yes, he will probably be replaced by the next in line for the democrats. Trump is a psychopath, he will unleash hell on America. You Americans should have a simple choice here..
Still voting for Biden. Anyone but Trump tbh. That dude is kinda rapey
The latter. Not sure how much debate performance actually impacts the race or if it’s main impact is on the airing network’s advertising revenue.
Simply said … if you don’t vote (for whoever the democrat is) you won’t be voting anymore
Yeah, vote Biden or give our country over to Christian Nationalists for the next few terms and keep watching our liberties erode. Your choice.
Here are my thoughts on voting in this election. If you live in a saying state you really should vote and probably should vote for Joe. You can disagree with his policies but the guy isn't unhinged and unpredictable. You know what you are getting with Joe. I don't live in a swing state and likely will not vote for either candidate. I believe that voting in a democracy gives legitimacy to the government and I think our system is so broken it does not deserve the small bit of legitimacy that my individual vote would mean.
Biden is the best President we have had in decades. He has done more for working families than Obama did, and certainly more than Clinton or any of the Republican administrations we have had from Reagan on. He is the best President we have had since LBJ.
I was voting RFK no matter what. But considering he met all the requirements to debate, despite CNN moving the goal post, and they still excluded him, I'm gonna go ahead and say democracy is dead in America. It was already on life support. We have one party pretending to be two, with people treating them like a sports team. It’s pathetic.
Why are they our only options. :/
I mean, I'm still voting. And I'm still voting against Trump. If anything, It turned a general hatred for Biden and his poor decision-making skills into pity. It's hard to look at that and say *anything* is still his fault. Even though things like the Iraq war, student loans, and Police are absolutely still his fault, that was all decades ago now. He doesn't remember who he was then, and holding on to anger about any of it isnt helping anything.
The president simply determines the party that determines the heads of the different departments within the government, and decides who the Supreme Court nominees are. Republicans are all off their fucking rocker. I'll take ANY democrat over the BEST Republican.
I will vote for Biden’s skeleton before I ever vote for Trump. Am I sad with the current choices and was I disappointed last night? Yes but it doesn’t take away the fact that Trump is a liar and dodged several of the questions he was asked.
No two ways about it, Biden is in no shape. I’d vote for a literal turd over Trump though because a turd isn’t a threat to our democracy.
In no way is Biden being old affecting my vote, which is based on caring about specific policy outcomes and judicial appointments. That was entertainment for the commentariat and terminally online people who are too busy fucking around to notice what actually matters here.
People who protest by staying home and not voting = GG you're just rolling over and letting other folks vote *for* you. Like I still think they should be able to complain about policy because the policies still affect them, but...you had an opportunity to let your opinion be known at the ballot box. *You didn't take it* I'm going to be voting against Trump. Fuck Trump. Fuck him *and* his base *and* the people in power who are enabling him. I still hold out hope for an actual Progressive candidate but if it comes down to Biden vs Trump ***again***, I'll pinch my nose and vote for Biden on election day
Biden at his worst is still a superior choice. He surrounds himself with smart people and has the country’s best interests at heart. There is a world of difference between these two. We have a stock market on the rise, lower inflation than other countries, like do the ducking right thing I do t care how slow he talks
I wanted to vote Biden even more. Did you listen to Trump?
I’ll still vote against the blatant fascist. But we’re fucked. The previous generations have left us with scraps. Our (I don’t have) kids will have nothing. I’m pretty fortunate in my life but this is dismal. Maybe I’m just having a midlife crisis but I just don’t see a way for this to turn around.
I will never not vote again fascism. The Dems could run a broom with an upturned bucket for a head and I'd still vote for it (so long as its platform was acceptable. But I think we may have a different candidate by the convention. We will see
We literally need a protest vote movement. Please everyone vote for ANYONE else otherwise we will be stuck here waiting for boomers to die. We need rank voice voting! ##protestvote #fuckboomerpresidents
I will vote because women literally died so that generations after them could vote, and I'm not going to be the one to disappoint them.
I'm voting based on Supreme Court nominations, mostly. I have always hated the better of two evils angle, but I think I'm going to have to vote Biden and vote for candidates locally that represent my interests better. Project 2025 scares the heck out of me, and if voting Biden means that doesn't happen, so be it. Maybe he'll die in a couple of years, and we'll just have to deal with Kamala for a bit until 2028 when we can get fresher candidates. :/
Bidens stutter is something stupid people latch onto because they can’t comprehend that someone with a stutter is actually one of the better leaders of our lifetime. In the face of everything Biden has had to fight through he still gave us student debt relief, pardons of service members convicted of being gay under DADT, he has cucked Russia, saved Ukraine from being over run, and put China in its place with Taiwan AND ALL THIS WITH THE TRAITOROUS MAGA PARTY trying to stop him at every single step of the way. Y’all need to stop being such unintelligent snowflakes and see reality
Look at our fucking Supreme Court after 4 years of Trump. Roe v Wade overturned, now they are in broad daylight taking bribes without fear of repercussions. Biden is old (so is Donald), but he's at least civil, ethical and tries to govern our country.
RFK
Vote third party. Doesn't even matter who (although RFK would be a leading choice). But we need to make a showing that the people reject the two party system. And don't let people fear monger saying a vote for a third party is just a vote for the "other" guy. But a vote for either of them is a vote for the system that continually puts them in place. So if we want a change, then we need to quit being scared and actually make the moves that get change. Support ranked choice voting and stop voting for people you know you don't like. They are not entitled to your vote.
If all these people who are abstaining from voting, voted 3rd party we would easily surpass 5% and qualifiy for more federal funding amd be invited to the debates. That would be huge for progress on getting more choices to lead our country and ranked choice voting.
Absolutely. Ranked choice voting would make such a significant difference but we won't get it if we just keep doing the same thing every election. Everyone is afraid of "wasting" their vote or letting the "other" guy win.
Lol fuck them both. I would never vote for these fucks.
Not voting this year. Both the choices are awful its not worth my 20 minutes. Biden lied to me about student loans and he deserves to be sued for the amount of loan relief he promised and bankrupted to pay for it. Fucking lying inept sack of garbage, he knew exactly what would happen. He knew he couldn't get that to pass but he lied to get elected. I hate him with every ounce of me. Trumps gonna win, millions of ppl like me pissed at this liar.
Idk man, I'm kind of getting into that headspace where I might abstain from voting this year. I don't want to vote for either of them at this point.
Even if you hate the top ballot choices, go vote to ensure your voice is heard down ballot. Local races affect you more and your vote matters more.
That's the entire point of the disinformation campaigns being pushed super hard on social media, to discourage and demoralize you into not voting. Fuck the bad actors and foreign adversaries who want to tear our nation down. Vote. Don't let those fucking losers win. How powerful is voting? Literally the nations of Russia, Iran, and China have active psychological ops going on to keep you from voting. They are terrified you will vote because that's what keeps America strong.
it's not the media that's keeping most people from voting, it's our completely destroyed political system that has resulted in two terrible candidates to choose from. How much other nations in the world have to do with that, I'm not sure but Citizen's United has got to be reversed soon or we're going to pass the point of no return.
Independent here. Still voting and voting Trump. The Democratic Party is in freefall right now and will try their best to replace Biden even though they put him in there knowing how braindead he is. Bernie should have been the nominee the last three elections. So dumb...
DNC got confused, went with *Weekend at Bernie’s* instead of Bernie.
Inspired me to call both senators and tell them get rid of Biden.
I'm voting, it's an obligation.
Bidens administration is just as incompetent as he is. Pissing money away to police the world has made the last 4 years difficult for a lot of Americans. People vote with their wallet, and Biden didn’t show any indication of trying to alleviate inflation or any of the other financial struggles we’re dealing with. I’m sure Trump wouldn’t help that either but it’s a moot point after last night. That debate just tanked the election for the democrats. If they don’t run someone else, Trump is going to win big.
Everyone is concerned with Biden’s age and how it showed last night but Trump’s performance was also extremely concerning. If you actually listen to what he said, he answered very few questions and gave a ton of misleading and false information just to satisfy his base. At least I could tell Biden was smart and knew what he was talking about even if he wasn’t as charismatic and was a bit slow. It has me more convinced to vote democrat no matter who the name on the ballot is because I’m not ok with another Trump presidency.
Hearing Trump repeat lies that have been disproven many times over makes me sure I will vote against him. Biden didn't do to well, but I'd rather shit in my hand and clap than vote for that Rapist, felon and fascist.
Before you consider the president, and consider the supreme court, last time Trump added a bunch, and he'll do it again, fuck Biden being old, vote or we'll have a corrupt SCOTUS for the majority of our lives.
Several points which I try to keep close: The debate doesn’t change all the things Biden has accomplished already (regardless of how it appears on tv or social media) Trump still lied on about pretty much everything he said, even if the moderator didn’t push him on it. Biden’s performance doesn’t change the fact that Trump was criminally convicted of felonies, has helped persuaded and incite an attempted insurrection of the government and invalidate and strike down a major election, all things no President including Biden has ever done. Even in the worst case scenario of Biden’s total failing cognitive function, which is not the case yet, he still surrounds himself with competent advisors and cabinet members that do take their oath to democracy seriously, while with Trump’s clear signs of cognitive decline and deterioration, he surrounds himself with cult-like sycophants and hate mongers who have helped implement harmful, plainly cruel policies, most of whom are either criminally convicted themselves or resigned Trump’s administration / campaign describing just how unwell, unstable and unhinged he was while working for him. Not Voting for Biden further opens the door to handing total government powers to an authoritarian and autocratic regime who have boldly said and boasted they intend to do away with the Constitution and democracy in the U.S., even if Biden, who does and continues to uphold democracy and make improvements and accomplishments, doesn’t look vibrant or impressive on tv or social media.
I'd rather have a vegetable as a president than a literal fascist traitor.
Yes it is likely to make me vote because we cannot let that lying, treasonous, morally devoid grifter Trump anywhere near the Oval Office again.
I didn't have time to watch it. It wasn't going to influence me anyway, I know which way I'm voting this time around
Yeah biden is old and slow but at least hes not a complete piece of trash who will most definitely make things worse on purpose
We're definitely more fucked by one than the other... We could always throw a wrench on everything and vote in "Worm Brains"...
I don't think our generation is of real concern here. Take this over to r/GenZ
I'd vote one way or another. But I'm going to try and avoid social media as much as I can the next few months....
I live in a swing state and will probably vote third party. The DNC can't govern or put up good candidates.
I’ll absolutely vote Democrat because the levers of power matter more than anything. That said, Biden is unfit for office and will lose unless he is replaced.
365 comments in this thread, 0 of which are pro-Trump. I’m personally voting with PSL for Claudia De La Cruz, but the censorship in this subreddit is astounding.
if anything, "Time to move"
Now I'm voting twice.... As hard.
I vote specifically with an eye on judicial nominations, executive staffing, and international relations. So, no, voting the same as I was planning on doing so.
In regards to the Presidential election, I was saying that before this debate. I live in a red state anyway, so I was never under any delusion my Presidential vote would actually matter. I'm voting because of local powers and ballot initiatives and not because I think either of those dumbasses should be in the oval office. I'll vote 3rd party for that since (again) my Pres. vote in a solid red (or solid blue) state means jack shit. Everyone who doesn't live in a purple state might as well do the same.
Biden could shit and eat his pants and I would still vote for him. The stakes are entirely too high. This isn't like giving an election to a 2012 Republican. These are dangerous times and they will remain so as long as MAGA Republicans are in power.
I love that "NSFW due to swear words" was blurred, but the title was fuckity fuck fuck. Top notch
im voting for kennedy
It had zero impact on me.
That debate almost made me side with Trump it was so bad. lol. I'm still voting for whoevers on the democrat side (honestly I wish they'd swap him out for someone better... I think a younger candidate could win on that alone) , and ultimately its biden's cabinet I'm really voting for anwyay.... Its not like joe biden is the one actually RUNNING the country, just like the CEO at my job isn't really running the company. without all of us hardworking employees under him , the company would cease to exist. What trump did last night was impressive in that he was able to respond to every question in a way that made him sound good. Was he telling the truth? Fuck no, but that's not a bar he strives for and it works just fine for his own base. His party has convinced themselves that doctors are lying to us about vaccines, scientists are lying to us about the climate, The media is lying to us about HIM, people in government are lying to us, the whole justice system and voting are rigged.. when you live in this world of "everyone is lying to you becuase they don't want trump to be successful!" , you can say whatever the fuck you want and they'll eat it up. I think one thing important to remember is that the joe biden you saw on stage last night. the one who worried ALL of us about his ability to lead a country.... he's already doing and and HAS BEEN for the past 4 years and we're in a relatively stable place. Covid is under control becuase we're vaccinated, the economy is doing well (I know a lot of US aren't, but our 401Ks if we have them are at least) , you're not hearing every day about some crazy shit the president said on live TV , he's been impeached 2 less times than the previous president.... Is joe biden the president we WANT right now? Not really... but he's good enough and if anything happened to him, I wouldn't worry too much about our fate in the hands of Kamala either.
I’m going to vote like hell for Joe Biden. The other guy is a moral vacuum.
Biden was hoarse and appeared old (he IS old) but if you actually listened to all the words Trump sounded like a rambling lunatic. Just louder.
Biden>>
I wasn't going to vote in the first place, but even more appalled at liberals than I was before. Both candidates support genocide and corporate authoritarianism, and the mental gymnastics required to rationalize this away is astounding. It's like I'm getting to witness how a society, like that of the Weimar Republic, can go completely insane.
We HAVE to vote. Now do I feel optimistic about anything? Fuck no…