He was 73 years old starting his presidential campaign for 2016. I feel *that's* too old. I'm still voting blue because trump is a 78 year old second-grader. Apologies to any cool second graders out there.
My second grader is cool, but he is NOT fit to run for office. He would absolutely resort to making stuff up he doesn't know anything about and name calling. Also forgets to change his socks and brush his teeth if I don't remind him. So...I agree with your assessment.
Bidens admins has done a lot. That doesn't speak directly to Biden but it's his cabinet. That said, we need someone in their 40s to run. Someone that understands us and let foreign policy be handled by pros guiding that person.
That's not quite accurate, since Obama wasn't ousted by Trump. His time was up, and we went with our own not-quite dinosaur (but still, older establishment, polarizing Clinton) candidate in Hillary. If we had someone younger and less old-guard, I bet we'd have had a better chance.
This is why Biden>> Trump.
I trust *the people around Biden* to run the country and put the qualified people in important positions.
Trust is loosely used here as I don’t trust the USGov period. I’m all for a purple anarchy whenever we wanna get our sh*t together and remove the elderly from *all* the offices.
Starting with sugar baby Clarence Thomas.
I bet not many people realize this, but if Ruth bader Ginsberg had let go of her death grip on power all the way to the grave, roe v wade may not have been overturned because they would have been able to get another liberal judge on the Supreme Court. They just can’t let go of power even if it means destroying the whole population.
Do you not remember what happened with Merrick Garland?
Sure, at the time it made sense for her to retire, but I wouldn’t have put it past the GOP to have done the same stalling technique.
It should have never come to that. If she had announced she was leaving in 2010 before Obama’s first midterm the democrats had 60 votes on the senate. The filibuster should have been in the scrap heap of history as the mostly (until the last 15 or so years) racist tool it was, and ended up being so for judge appointments, so getting rid of that gives options up to 2014 for her to go. Trying to hold on through the 2016 election and then Trump presidency was a huge mistake by RBG that was completely avoidable.
I don't know. My 4 year old is using some of Trumps tactics.
Go to phrases are "That's not true" and "That's not fair" and finally "You're not being nice".
Thankfully he's growing out of it.
My sister: “Do you need to use the bathroom?”
My four-year-old nephew, visibly pressing his hand against his butt: “No!”
The US: “Did you have sex with that sex worker?”
Trump, actively handing her a hush money check that earns him 34 convictions: “No!”
Yeah I am Irish American and think that is pretty cool. I do follow politics over there a bit. Ireland has taken some pretty big steps (not saying they do not have issues). The US is starting to become more socially conservative than Ireland actually. I've been there a few times.
Biden is most likely completely ineffectual at this point. I’m guessing his cabinet does most everything that needs done 99% of the time while he sleeps in the corner. Not ideal, but his cabinet / the party can still try to accomplish the goals of the party platform, which at least I mostly agree with.
Trump on the other hand I believe is actively harmful to the US, the globe, and democracy as a whole. Shitty choice, but I’ll take ineffectual over dangerous any day of the week.
I just don’t understand how everyone doesn’t understand this. We are not voting for a candidate. We never were.
We are voting for an administration. This needs to be said loudly and repeatedly. It’s quite clear that either candidate is only the puppet for the larger administration.
And Trump administration wants to openly destroy our rights and completely upend our way of life in the US.
Voting for them will result in guaranteed systemic devastation and loss of innocent people’s lives for many years to come, domestically.
Anyone who thinks otherwise at this point is not paying attention.
I don't know why people think the President does all the things. That's *why* they have a cabinet, to have people who are knowledgeable about those fields/departments heading them up.
Trump, however, feels like he has to be in charge of everything because he's convinced himself that he knows everything.
I'll take the old man with brain farts who let's the smart people do their jobs over the rambling lunatic who will personally dismantle the country to serve his own needs.
Not even his own needs. The religious right will be running this country almost immediately if he becomes President ... but he, himself, is not religious.
If they win - I know there's going to be a r/LeopardsAteMyFace moment... I'm just not sure if trump, the hf, maga, or the evangelicals are the leopards. Someone's losing a face tho, that's for sure.
Honestly, no one will get out of another Trump administration unscathed. It’s going to be heinous.
However, for his supporters, it doesn’t matter if they get hurt, as long as the people they dislike get hurt just as bad or worse.
We’ve seen this pattern time and again.
Just a reminder, we live in a country where a significant portion of the population is anti-education (education makes you a dirty commy librul groomer something something buzzwords).
Did anyone remember the moderators question about how the jobs issue and health issue for the black population was not addressed in government? Biden acknowledged more needs to be done. Trumps answer was that illegals across the border were taking the jobs from people of color?????????? I say whaaat?
I’m going to post this every where there is any subs about Biden, Trump or the debates that is still open for comment.
That was some fucked up answer from Trump. There is no spin to make that answer better….
This is 100% accurate. Vote for the ideals not the person. Policy will still get implemented under an old half there president. But Trump is a self serving wanna be billionaire that will gut this country for his own benefit the same way he ran every company he’s owned into the ground.
Correct. The Heritage Foundation is the mastermind, the machine and money behind the Republican party, and what they have planned is absolutely awful. They intend to send us to the Dark ages with a full blown theocracy known as Project 2025. No rights, no justice, no education, and no hope.
If they win, there will be no more elections. They'll see to it.
John Oliver breaks it down here, but the wiki is provided as well: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYwqpx6lp\_s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYwqpx6lp_s)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project\_2025](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025)
I think he only won in 2020, because he wasn't Trump. But that doesn't seem to be working for him anymore.
I'm not American, but if I was, I would still vote blue in any case, because, well, Trump is the alternative, as much as Biden isn't the ideal candidate.
This is a pretty reasonable and nuanced comment. You can understand why the DNC went with Biden: he's the incumbent and also he beat Trump last time! The gamble was that he'd still be sharp enough to get elected. I understand why they went with that gamble. It's easy looking at it now to say it was the wrong call. But, this call wasn't made last week.
The scary thing isn't Biden's age. It's Trump's authoritarianism and the fascist movement behind him. We're worried about Biden's doddering because the stakes are so high.
Yes, and he was considered the most electable in 2020, which makes sense. 100% agreed.
Democrats also just do not hit back as hard as Republicans do. They are better at policy, worse at politics. The only Democrat I've seen really hit back hard is Gavin Newsom. I wish he were the candidate now
That was the most infuriating thing. Biden could have just gone ham on things like Jan 6th, the mishandling of Covid, the 34 felony counts, the nearly starting a war with Iran, the friendship with Epstein, the sucking up to Putin or a million other things. But no, instead he starts waffling on about fucking golf.
When someone is repeatedly knifing you in the chest, you don't sternly lecture them about how impolite they're being, you fight back.
>Democrats also just do not hit back as hard as Republicans do. They are better at policy, worse at politics.
"They go low, we go high" is the motto that allowed shit like Trump to happen. We're seeing younger Dems willing to swing back, but there's still this idea about a level of professionalism and decorum that the Dems, at large, cling to. Meanwhile, the GOP threw out any sense of decorum and fully embraced madness.
Democrats bring a knife to a gun fight.
Have you watched Lincoln project videos ? Once you see what former Republican operatives bring to the table when they support Democrats, you realize how much better they are at hitting back.
My husband wants harsh ads about abortion during football games, so that independents ask maga friends, what the fuck?
>"They go low, we go high"
No, "we know better than the actual voters in our party" is why we got Trump. If the DNC didn't kneecap Bearnie, we would not have gotten Trump. He would have destroyed Trump among the blue collar voters of the Midwest, enough of whom Trump flipped to take the election.
The DNC did this. Then they did it again in 2020. When you keep running the same people you've been running since the 1990s, don't be surprised when you open the door to someone like Trump.
> "They go low, we go high" is the motto that allowed shit like Trump to happen. We're seeing younger Dems willing to swing back, but there's still this idea about a level of professionalism and decorum that the Dems, at large, cling to. Meanwhile, the GOP threw out any sense of decorum and fully embraced madness.
I totally agree. This is exactly why Hillary lost and why Biden needs to play hard ball this time around. Voters want theater, so give them theater and bombast. Democrats are seen as weak, and they literally eat their own. Look at how they threw Al Franken under the bus, that whole thing was a setup from a Republican radio host and a B.S. accusation and the Democrats turned on him. Look at Matt Gaetz, he is a literal sex trafficker, and the Republicans have his back. Both extremes are no good.
The Democrats need a moderate candidate with the energy and ferocity of the Squad, but without their far left politics that turn off the majority of the party.
I'm a younger millennial at 31. I really hate that the two best choices are two men, one approaching his 80s and the other at 81. Biden could barely speak and Trump is well... Trump. Would love to see future party nominees several years away from being eligible for social security.
I remember many of us up in arms about Bernie Sanders' age when he ran. He was called a derelict and too old multiple times, and yet, here we are.
Speaking of ages, I would love to see real term limits for politicians.
I’m personally fine with an age limit linked to retirement age or something static, but as someone who lives in a state with term limits, absolutely not. I get the desire for them, I really do, but they don’t work out how people would like.
What we really need, and I know this is an uphill battle as well, is MASSIVE voting reform. From it being made a federal holiday, changing to ranked voting (or something similar), gerrymandering/district manipulation correction, getting money out to elections, AND/or removal of the electoral college and moving to popular vote for the big office.
I know it’s a lot, but I think adjusting those would greatly fix our system and could accommodate not placing term limits in place which has been shown to be bad in a number of places.
The argument being if we fixed voting and made it so that the candidates/elected officials were actually accountable to the voters they’d be far more responsive and keep up with what their voters ACTUALLY wanted. Plus having someone experienced is very necessary for how complicated our system is/has become.
I’m curious, what have been the issues with term limits once they’ve been emplaced? I think governing for one of your “lifetimes” (6-8 years, the time it takes to master something), is a good amount of time before you step away to something else. Career politicians in Congress seem to be a big part of why the system is broken (money and lobbyists are the other part, in my belief).
Well, turns out that the number of states who have implemented term limits for state level officials has seen most of them consider it bad, including California, Missouri, Oklahoma, and others though with it in place it is harder to remove.
That said, to answer your question. It has been found that in places with term limits that the officials begin to become less responsive to their constituents and instead seem to be more receptive to lobbyist in part due to attempting to build a resume for when they inevitably leave office. Furthermore, it takes a while to get used to how the processes of governing work, building the expertise needed to understand what laws they are passing and promoting (and ultimately what will and won’t affect their constituents and begin working for them), and just generally practicing realpolitik to get those laws passed. Not to mention the expertise needed to navigate and work with the various levels of bureaucracy and institutes we have in place to design, promote, and implement various laws and initiatives. This need for expertise ends up causing term limited officials who are new to end up relying on lobbyists even more as they take office.
As an example I don’t know about you but, I’d rather have a doctor who has been practicing for a decade than a new one; though even that analogy is poor because a doctor goes through practically a decade of training and education to get their whereas unfortunately there isn’t a system like that for governing and law-making again pointing to those who have the expertise being absolutely vital.
I’ve linked an article hat discusses some of this and links to some study’s and comments from lawmakers and political scientists.
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/politics/state/2012/02/05/legislative-term-limits-a-bad-idea-research-professor-says/61098794007/
Plus, when incumbents stop caring about re-election, they start playing poison ball. With mandatory term limits, the Lame Duck period would extend to as much as a third of all elected positions every year - plus, with the knowledge that the office-holder cannot run again, their Lame Duck 2 months now becomes Lame Duck multiple *years*. At the last major change of elected positions (i.e. start of Biden administration) outgoing GOPers, many at state level, deliberately pushed through a lot of unpopular legislation to hamstring incoming new officials, give them bigger messes to clean up, and ensure the unwitting populace blame the incoming elected officials for the garbage left behind by those leaving. Human nature and politics being what they are, it's a foregone conclusion that, with mandatory term limits, more than one would act in bad faith to push thru/vote for shit legislation since that individual no longer has to worry about winning another popularity contest.
We have term limits already; they are called elections. However (in addition to the reform that needs to happen from eliminating the atrocious Citizens United decision and having an independent review of all voting districts in the country to eliminate gerrymandering), either the period between election day and the day of taking office needs to be shortened (achievable if we switch to voting by mail! Or having a voting day holiday), or (perhaps AND) no new legislation can be voted on in the period between election day and the date of taking office. Lame Ducks should make no laws.
They're not the "two best choices", it's the two choices the powers that be allow us to pick from. The US is not actually a democracy, it's an oligarchy.
Bingo. Citizens United doesn't just benefit Republicans.
The world, America especially, is just a game between rich people, and all of us are the ball.
Look, I'm gonna be honest I'm no fan of having senior presidents at all. But I will say since I've seen hundreds of bidens age posts over 24 hours take 5 minutes and check out r/whatbidenhasdone he has actually gotten more accomplished than any president of the last 40 years. But most of it flies under the radar because the truth is that actual politics is boring to news networks
I think that sub should be called... what has Biden's cabinet done. Biden can't articulate a coherent thought anymore. That debate was a joke, this is way past stuttering. Dems aren't winning with him at the helm anymore. These next polls are going to be wild.
You do know Biden doesn't run the entire govt by himself right? There are other people, even lots of them, that help run the govt. But those people require a good manager to put good and smart people in positions to get things done, and there's no denying Biden has done that. Just compare that to the chaos and ineffectiveness of the Trump administration. I agree the next polls are going to be wild but it would help if people had at least 4th grade understanding of civics.
This is something everyone seems to forget - both of these guys aren’t boomers. Hell, the worst offenders in congress such as Pelosi, McConnell and the now-deceased Feinstein are all Silent Generation or whatever they’re called. Boomers can be annoying but even they aren’t in charge.
*Officially, that is
Edit - I thought the boomers started in 1947. Trump is an official capital B Boomer and the literal embodiment of every negative stereotype for that generation.
Still old as fuck and should be nowhere near the presidency but that’s beside the point.
We did have a Boomer president already, somehow we went backwards a generation with the next 2 presidents.
Generation X is somehow messing up and not able to take control.
Obama, right? And Clinton and W are upper 70s now but were a very reasonable late 40s to mid 50s when they were in office. There should be a cut off of 65 for elected officials. They’re too far removed from the electorate past a certain age even if they’re completely cognitively with it.
The crazy part is we already have age restrictions for the president so this isn't really that complicated. Just add a ceiling. 65 is acceptable. I don't know anyone who disagree. So why is this so impossible to get done?
Gen X is traditionally the sit it out generation. They are tiny in comparison to the boomers and didnt have the numbers to push back in the way the millennials have. It’s less messing it up and more giving up
Gen X is small, but they are now the age that we would traditionally elect our presidents. Their lack of size should just mean they get maybe 8 years of being in office vs. the 16 years I'd expect from the Boomers. It will be interesting to see if a millennial candidate jumps the line and takes office before an Xer. Though the big name governors who everyone thinks will take over in 2028 are all from Gen X, so I think their candidate is next unless something drastically changes.
The thing is gen x didn’t get to move up in politics as boomers didn’t leave. They’re all private sector because they hit their ceiling without boomers leaving
"Gen X represents 19.8% of the U.S. and 35.3% of congress. Boomers represent 21.2% of the U.S. and 48.8% of congress." -Pew Research.
The under-represented generation is us. Millennials are only about 7% of congress.
Trump is an elder boomer like on the cusp but still a boomer. Boomer year is the easiest to define as it is the baby boom followed by WW2 (ended 1945) when all Military men returned home. Boomer gen starts 1946.
1946-1949 are the "goomers", transition from Greatest Generation to Boomers. If you look at a graph of US live births by year there is a big obvious population bubble 1950-1959 that is the boomers. The "knee" of that bubble is where the transition "Goomer" and "Xoomer" generations like. Trump is a goomer for sure. The Millenial population bubble is wider and flatter (peak 1983-1994), with Xennial and Zillenial transition groups on either side.
I think looking at it this way - a population bubble and not an arbitrary year cutoff - is much more useful for looking at politics because the Boomers are the largest cohort of people ever to walk this Earth and their sheer strength of numbers is what gives them political power.
The Boom generation begins with 1943 and spans to ~1961. (It used to be 1964, but the leading generational historians have revised the span based on more recent and more accurate data.)
Something I think about a lot is that if Ruth Bader Ginsberg retired when she was **eighty** in 2011, then Obama would've picked her replacement instead of it going to Amy Coney Barrett who was the deciding vote in overturning Roe v Wade.
Once enough time passes and we're not in the thick of "I got a sunburn and it's Trump's fault!" I think that's what RBG is going to be remembered for.
That did piss me off. I was surprised she largely got a pass when she died for doing that but her selfishness 100% cost the seat and continues to have a big impact on the country with the swing Trump's 3 conservative picks cost. She had a two term democrat president to bow out on and instead waited until she croaked for Trump.
Having said that the SCOTUS badly needs term limits just the same as Congress.
RBG's legacy will be the destruction of the Supreme Court and the establishment of a Christofascist state because she could not deal with the fact that Obama beat Clinton in the primary. Her pride and ego destroyed the Supreme Court.
Jesus, this whole boomer thing is so ridiculous. Biden is the Silent Generation, Clinton is a Boomer, and Obama is Gen X. It’s not that difficult.
Anyway, it’s not a generation thing; it’s about the calcification of power structures to the point where two or three families control the direction of the Democratic Party. And I say this as a Biden policy stan who also thinks he’s unfit for office.
Obama was born during the Boomer generation, while close to generally excepted date range to Gen X, he is Not Gen X.
He may share some crossover with Gen X, but there has not been a Gen X elected as president.
Reagan born 1911 = Greatest Gen
G.H. Bush born 1924 = Greatest Gen
Clinton born 1946 = Boomer Gen
G.W. Bush born 1946 = Boomer Gen
Obama born 1961 = Boomer Gen
Trump born 1946 = Boomer Gen
Biden born 1942 = Silent Gen
Nobody elected prior to R. Reagan would be born remotely close to the Boomer Gen.
Greatest Gen 1901-1927
Silent Gen 1928-1945
Boomer Gen 1946-1964
Gen X 1965-1980
Millennial 1981-1996
Gen Z 1997-2012
You can ride or die by your political party preference, but NOTHING changes the fact that BOTH candidates are absolutely trash.
NOTHING changes the fact that the Silent Gen and the Boomers should NOT be elected to office.
Their methods don't work, the proof is present day. They had 100 years at bat, and it's a total shit show.
My Bf and I both called our fathers around the same time in Father’s Day.
My dad and I are politically the same. We agree on a lot of things. My whole adult life he’s said something akin to “this ain’t my world no more this for yall, I can’t be making decisions for a world I’m not going to have to live with.” During our phone call he said “yea us boomers got to leave yall alone.. they keep holding yall back!”
Meanwhile, I hear my Bf calling his dad selfish. Why? Because when having a political discussion, my BF said younger generation , including himself, are worried about the raise in fascism and him voting the way he does, is helping fascist polices prevail. Dad’s response? “Don’t put that on me”
Conservatives: Fuck Biden 🤜
Liberals: Fuck Trump 🤛
*After last night's.. "debate"*
Liberals and Conservatives: Fuck Biden and Trump 🤝
Who knew that mutual hate for 2 dinosaurs trying to run the country would bring these 2 together?
MAGAs: We still luv TrUmP! 🤡🤡
It’s cute that you think Trump’s insanity hasn’t whipped up his base into a zealous fervor.
Conservatives don’t hate Trump. Thats why he won in 2016 and it’s why he is even an option now.
This this this. NO one votes in primaries. It's the closest things we have to ranked choice voting until we can get ranked choice voting.
Also every state should have ranked choice voting. Organize with your local government and get it on your ballot. Let the people decide. Change doesn't happen from the top down like we think.
The primaries were a joke this year. No one ran against Biden and the GOP can’t get over their obsession with Trump. I’d say it was the least democratic primary ever.
I'm with you OP. Thing is as a populace we simply don't demand better so we get the trash that rises to the top.
I'm a 'Boomer' and I still think retirement age for a politician should be capped at 60.
And, frankly, I'm baffled that someone with a criminal record could be in the running for the white house.
I'm not voting for the president.
I'm voting for their cabinet, the people they put in charge of important departments, and most importantly, their potential supreme court picks.
Once I came to this conclusion, it became mush easier to stomach voting for the person I am voting for.
Supreme Court nominations. For years, the right voted with only this in mind and look how well it panned out for them? It’s not about what happens in the next 4 years, but what happens in the next 30.
If Trump gets another term to replace Thomas and Alito, you’ll be living in a retirement home the next time the court might have a liberal advantage. Look at all the 6-3 decisions just today that were made on ideological lines. That’s the rest of our lives.
Exactly. Plus, we know mental decline is a thing.
We dont let children vote, even though it's their future. Why? Because their brains aren't cooked enough to know what they're doing
But we let old people vote on shot that won't affect them, even if they themselves have to live in a home because they can't remember what meds they took that morning.
If there's a minimum age to vote, there should be a maximum age too for even more reasons
That sets a bad precedent, let the old people vote. The problem is they have nothing but time. Let the younger workforce *have a day off to fucking vote*.
It's not just SCOTUS. The president appoints hundreds of federal judges who all serve lifetime appointments. The federal judge in Florida who is holding up the classified documents case was a Trump appointee.
But there's even more than that. In total the president makes 4,000 political appointments, only 1,000 of those require Senate confirmation.
Very much this. I'm voting for the policies they'll support and the people they'll put in charge. Their ability to articulate those things isn't of any importance to me.
Also, something that isn't getting enough attention in my mind, is that I also want our government fixed, I don't want it further broken. We can't allow the presidency to continue assuming more and more powers at the expense of Congress and the judiciary. We need to restore the functioning of our governmental institutions, not allow it to be deconstructed in a partisan manner for their own benefits. And that's not going to be something that is a quick fix.
Absolutely agree.
Our generation and Gen Z are the only groups that are actively wanting major improvements to the entire political system.
How we accomplish this at this point? No idea, but that certainly doesn’t mean it’s not possible.
I’ve started looking at the actual candidates just as figureheads and reminding myself that it’s everything else that comes with them that is actually at stake.
Exactly this.
It isn't the Face I'm voting for, it is everything that comes with him/her.
I don't want to live in the Gileadesque dystopian future a second Trump presidency would bring. Thus, I'll vote Biden. Not because I'm super hyped on the man himself, but because even the shitty status quo is better than Project 2025 coming to fruition.
100%, and I feel like this gets overlooked. You’re not just voting for the top of the ticket, we’re voting for an administration.
Biden was certainly not my 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc choice in the 2020 primary. He was second to last for me in who I would’ve picked. But that’s who got the nomination and I voted for him anyway. He could’ve served 1 term, chosen not to run and retire. But nope, instead we’re relying on an 81 year old man to save us from a 77 year old man, who we know for a fact does not respect the law or our constitution and who literally will not leave the WH if he gets back in again.
So yea, its unbelievable this is where we’re at. I’m basically just voting for the administration that’s not going to shove a Christofascist authoritarian agenda on the country.
This. I'd love for it to be just about anyone other than Biden, but if you don't want Trump to get a second term, then like it or not, Biden is what we've got. It kills me that 3rd-party/independents think their Hail Mary attempts to wrest power from the Democrats/Republicans is going to accomplish anything other than snatching away just enough votes from Biden to enable Trump to win.
And someone else on here expanded on your good point I think--you are voting for the whole administration, not just the one person, which I think does help with perspective.
Biden wasn’t in my top five choices either. I did end of up voting for him. It was a choke down vote but I would have preferred pretty much any other candidate. This time around after four years of Biden and his administration I’ve actually been pretty okay with how he’s handled things and the people he’s put around him. I’ll be voting for him.
This is the thought process more people need to have. Do we want to keep stacking the court with right wing justices that take our rights away. Bidens old, trumps dangerous. Vote down ballot.
Oof. I hadn't thought of it this way, but you are definitely correct in that whoever is closest to the President is the person who's going to be actually running things, even if it's Biden.
This. It’s easy to feel apathetic when you think you’re voting for JUST the President. Biden at least has a real team behind him even if he’s… not all there.
Not many people understand what you just said.
Let’s be honest, Biden was fucking awful last night. I truly believe I could have done better if I had his resources pre-debate.
With that being said - The most important attribute of a great president is the understanding and humbleness of NOT KNOWING EVERYTHING.
The greatest presidents surround themselves with the “expert experts”, the most intelligent and well equipped people in the country.
That’s what you’re fucking voting for.
Yeah, if the youth are feeling apathetic, boy, let me tell you it can get much worse.
Every country in history thinks, oh it won't happen to us. We are on the precipice. Shit can get much worse.
Hopefully post Trump we can start focusing on things beyond survival, but those are the stakes right now.
Please don't let the wannabe dictator retake office, that's a bell you can't unring. He will not leave again.
That's my biggest question when I read someone like OP who hates Trump. Like, okay. You don't like either candidate. That's awesome, most of us are in the same boat. But until or unless everyone realizes Project 2025 is a real plan embraced by most of the Republican Party, we cannot let them anywhere *near* another Presidency. I'll vote for Biden in a fucking coma if I have to. We cannot let this wannabe dictator back in office, and the Republican Party needs to majorly reform because right now they're more concerned with doing whatever it takes to retake office and hold it than actually appeal to and serve all Americans, not just the privileged.
Not to mention that Russia and Ukraine have pretty much been at war since 2014. The invasion a few years ago was just the most recent push by Russia. But there’s been fighting in eastern Ukraine for 10 years. So if Trump knew how to end it, why didn’t he do anything from 2017 to 2021?
Not to mention women’s healthcare, tariffs and economic policies that will further spike inflation and drown them, and to protect their rightfully earned social security and Medicare benefits. The younger generation HAS TO go out and vote for their future.
They didn’t win them over with talking about golf?? For sure they thought that would work. Golf handicap is like the #3 most important issue facing voters right?
One of the most painful parts of this is, if Trump wins, in a few years there will be a wave of Biden staffers writing tell-all behind-the-scenes books about how "they had serious reservations about Biden" and secretly wanted to run somebody else. Of course, right now in the present day, they have the chance to speak up, to try and make room for new, energetic candidates, and they aren't doing so.
Nobody really cares about leaving a better world behind; or at least, they care more about their personal power, their personal legacy. It is the RBG problem all over again.
I watched the panel of CNN political commentators do an immediate post show after the debate.
The tone of everyone on it was very much as if the Democratic Party had just lost the election.
Lots of folks on the panel saying things like:
“Biden needed to be replaced”…
“how could people close to him let him go out there tonight”…
“Incumbents in swing state seats saying I’m not going to get re-elected with him as our candidate”…
Will be interesting to see how the Democratic Party responds to last night bc all these commentators were shook.
They had that canned and ready to go because they knew it was going to generate the most interest.
"I've been talking to democrats..." Who? Name names. Don't just project hypotheticals.
I've seen so many opinion pieces written by hacks, quoting Democrat presidential campaign managers for people that never even made it to the primaries, as if they're worth even listening to.
It was disgusting.
Ya perhaps.
I can only speak for myself on this…
But I certainly did not walk away from last night feeling that Biden was fit to be in office another four years.
So I can only imagine how someone who feels they have dedicated their life to the party could have felt.
Seriously it was painful to watch. That one sequence where he literally just stopped functioning mid sentence, mumbled incoherently then said “we beat Medicare” was pretty shocking and it wasn’t the only moment. It’s more than just “Biden has a stutter” that people have been saying for years now. Like almost everyone his age he’s slowing down cognitively to say it nicely and there’s no way around that.
By the rules put in place before the election, unless Biden explicitly requests them to do otherwise, the delegates already pledged to Biden must vote for him in the first round of votes in the Democrat convention. So Biden has to withdraw for the Democrats to go to a brokered convention were they could pick someone else.
Commentators on a news broadcast are only doing what is best for ratings…or more specifically what the 10 producers off camera think is best for ratings.
I think they were slightly biased against Biden and focused on that a bit too much, but they did mention quite a few times that Trump lied about pretty much everything and dodged several questions.
Both lost and this debate most likely didn’t change a damn thing.
Biden recited actual numbers, facts, statistics…data! And he recited those much better than I could. Trump on the other hand had a bunch of vague recollections or promises that he will do something about something without any actual solution or numbers. Simple saying “numbers” doesn’t mean anything.
Trump should say he has the best conviction numbers of any president ever, everyone agrees, top experts in the field agree 34 convictions is by far the most numbers compared to any president before. But what Biden is doing “to the country is criminal”.
Biden isn’t coming back from this. We can talk about the transcript, how nuts Trump still is, how bad another Trump presidency will be, but stuff like this sticks in people’s minds. It’s stupid in general and especially now given all the context, but it’s reality.
If Biden is the nominee then Trump will win. It’s sad but true. All the “yeah, I’m still voting for the guy who stutters” feel good posts isn’t changing the outcome. If anything it’s counterproductive. The democrats need a full fledge revolt if Biden won’t step down. Literally any other candidate would give them a better shot.
And then it’s voters fault for allowing the other party to win. The DNC needs to some fucking responsibility and accept that they’ve one a single close race in the past decade and it’s their fault, no one to blame but themselves
It's infuriating - there *are* talented, motivated, intelligent, ***younger*** people in this party - likeable ones even!
And yet somehow we've arrived here, faceoff between two people who both have one foot in the nursing home already. The only alternate democrats I've heard discussed were equally bad picks or unlikely to win. Earlier today I heard someone on the radio discussing this and the commentator said, *"if not Biden, then who? It would have to be Biden, Harris, Newsom, or Whitmer."*, and all I could think is WTF, no! Who made that rule and how does someone arrive at that conclusion? Why does it have to be some candidate with baggage attached that instantly draws ire from some voting bloc?
They're worried we would pick a Bernie style candidate or something again. Very remote possibility but they want to make sure there is no possibility so the markets are all happy and pointing upwards.
Yes dude they want to keep us down and in control. When Bernie started saying a lot of anti capitalism stuff that would support the regular people they shut his ass down.
There's plenty of other candidates who would do a better job and greatly help the American public, but anybody like that gets weeded out because making rich people pay their fucking taxes is not good for the gravy train.
Those Democratic fundraisers that have a $1,500 entry fee? Yeah, those aren't for you or me.
Our system is broken. The media and politicians themselves have created a toxic stew. What person who isn’t broken in some way would ever want to go through all the shit required to be the president?
We won't truly "drain the swamp" until older generations die off and younger generations stop only supporting D or R. We need a culture shift where it's not a "wasted vote" and bad juju to vote for a candidate you truly like. Maybe then the D and R will find reputable candidates. Until then we will continue getting the mickey mouse show we have had.
The president means nothing. They don't do most of the work or decision making. It's the party who wins that matter.
In 2017, Trump said he would:
- get rid of Chain migration
- get rid of STEM OPT for students
- get rid of visa lottery
- pull out of NAFTA
- impose a point system for immigration
Yes he was very articulate and spoke with confidence, yet None of that happened.
Biden didn't say he would expand TN visa duration(he probably doesn't even know what TN visa is). Or that he would increase the time your visa can be expired before renewing WITHOUT interview. And those two things already happened.
So the fact that Biden can't talk doesn't mean anything. He has a lot of people behind him who will be doing the actual work. And definitely a better job than Trump and his people.
The debate is like watching a TV show on Netflix. It's an ENTERTAINMENT show.
Majority of voters are 50+. Until younger generations turn out in large numbers for elections, the status quo will remain. Far left and far right politicians need to be voted out. Moderates are the only way forward out of this mess. It doesn't matter if they're Republicans or Democrats, they need to be moderates.
Saying that only moderates will get us out of this mess just endorses a failing status quo and surrenders our ability to imagine a better system. We need transformative and radical changes to our political system if we want sane politics that actually act in our collective interests!
It has to do with who votes the most in primaries.
It's retired people, which is why we have a country led by people who are literally rotting in office.
Millennials were fucking stupid and decided to just not show up if they did not feel super excited, so their voices got ignored. Let's see if Z is smarter.
Personally I think we should have age maximums. It seems that having people leading the country that won’t live to see the results of their crap decisions (climate change, economic policy, etc.) doesn’t lead to great results.
Said it since 2016... Geriatric patients shouldn't be in govt. If someone isn't trusted to fly a plane after a certain age or drive a commercial vehicle... then they're definitely not fit for president
We went from one of the youngest president's in history, to fossils back to back to back
Biden answered all the questions with policy positions, with a stutter and scratchy old man voice.
Trump didn't answer a single question. Rambled like a lunatic. Lied 100 times in 90 minutes and at one point proudly proclaimed he wants to give rich/corporations a huge tax cut.
The fact that conservatives still exist at all is more shocking than the debate.
The debate Whitmer-Dixon for Michigan governor was similar. Whitmer answered with all the politicies she had done and laid out; Dixon spent her answers discrediting Whitmer’s action.
Now, me, as an intelligent woman as I think I am, I wanted to gear BOTH sides and their policies. Well, only one answered the questions. 🤷🏻♀️
Dude, they literally responded to a question about affordable childcare by both ignoring it entirely and arguing about golf scores.
There is no universe where that is reasonable.
Biden is the better choice no doubt. Trumps cabinet will be comprised of clan members, Russian sympathizers, family members, TV talking heads, and overall garbage human beings.
Feel gross. Like, ok I’m still going vote for Biden just because of he surrounds himself with mostly lifelong public servants, whereas Trump is surrounded by sycophants, particularly after his first term where most of his cabinet/advisors are either in prison or won’t endorse him.
But these choices are fucking garbage, and if you weren’t a politically active person and just flipped last nights debate on for 10 mins to see what the fuss was about, I wouldn’t totally fault them for thinking Trump might be better, even if all he did was lie the whole time about anything and everything.
It was sad. Very sad. To the point of elder abuse. He looked, acted, and spoke like an 81 year old man. Complete with a brain-lock.
The world is watching.
Try this link
It's been so heavily shadow banned that I had to send it to myself from my PC.
https://www.youtube.com/live/L9wKJw-7tEM?si=pzlK63nH7wda5H38
We have a suggested retirement age for a reason no one running for president should be older than suggested retirement age. Can we at least make that happen.
If all the eligible voters that didn’t vote in the last election simply voted third party , the third party would beat the runner up by twice the votes.
Everyone should just put the ‘f u’ vote in this year and vote 3rd party.
I'd rather have a well-meaning aging man surrounded by well-meaning people, than a fascist liar trustfund baby billionaire who racked up our deficit by 18T and who gargles Putin's nutsack in his mouth.
We used to be afraid of the "Reds". Joe McCarthy would roll over in his grave if he saw how much Russian influence Trump needs to succeed.
Fellow millennials, hear me now. Yes, the debate was a shit show. However, do not despair, just look from a different perspective if you are struggling.
We’ve known since last election that Biden was old. We’ve known since last election that Trump was a lying nut job hell bent on his own enrichment at the cost of literally anything and everything else. If anything, I think many/most of us are surprised Biden has done such a good job in his first turn. It’s not perfect at all, but we’ve bounced back pretty well in spite of the far right’s staunch opposition.
So, where does that leave us? We have an old guy with speech/communication issues that is clearly slowing down and struggling, but still has GOOD policy and intentions. Also, we know what would happen if/when that candidate would need to step down (vice president). We have another old guy who is a lying, cheating, selfish, dangerous felon with zero regard for the country, its policies, its citizens, or its security, but when he lies, he does so pretty clearly and coherently most of the time. Also, that old guy hasn’t even named a VP yet, so we both 1) don’t know who would take over if/when he needed to step down, and 2) wouldn’t know if he’d even step down after his term ended.
The choice is crystal clear for me.
Look at it like this, Biden is a bridge to 2028. He’s taking one for America, taking one for humanity here. He likely doesn’t want to do this shit any more than we want him to, but stepping down would be very dangerous and could risk Trump winning. I think the vast majority of voters on both sides would rather have a different candidate than Joe Biden, but this is just how politics works. I’d infinitely rather vote for Joe than have him step down and have Trump win. Regardless of what happens, we’ll never know if it was the right or wrong path. Still, Joe is going to put America on his back and carry us as far as he can, hoping to make it to 2028 where he can hand it off to someone like Gavin Newsom.
So, don’t look at it like all is lost, this is just the last leg of the relay race, and we are handing the baton to our slowest guy. We can talk all we want about how we wish we could have changed the lineup and how we wish we had a different runner, but this is who we have. Biden is safe, Biden is reliable, and we know what to expect from him, and that’s almost entirely good. The worst case scenario for Biden is that he dies and Kamala takes over. The worst part of having Trump as president would be that he succeeds where he failed last time.
You don’t have to like the vote, but you need to make that vote.
No it showed the world how
The media and the DNC have been straight up gaslighting Americans on old joes cognitive abilities
It also brought out the question of . “Who is really running the government “
As a Democrat i am pissed because we could of had Kennedy there last night instead of a weak old man
Even his policies initiatives fall flat. Why haven’t you been implementing these things is what I kept asking myself
I am no fan of trump but don’t shy away. This debate was a disaster for us Democrats and we need to adjust course fast
May I suggest, dear readers, that all this anti-old rhetoric is coming from the right as a means to peel off support FOR DEMOCRATS?
Show me ONE millenial Trump supporter or even leaning to Trump who has ANY SECOND THOUGHTS about his age. I'll wait.
All this age stuff is peeling off voters torn between voting at all or possibly voting for Biden.
Stay home or vote for Trump at your own risk, its YOUR future.
Dear OP,
You are correct and I applaud you for sharing this.
It is within the rights of the voters to refuse both candidates and demand that suitable options be offered to us. Options who aren't too old, aren't career politicians and where neither candidate is a convicted felon who attempted to overthrow the United States government. I just don't know how to make it happen.
It's not just presidential candidates. Basically 99% of all people who want to get into politics or who are politicians are scumbags. Even if they start with good intentions, they are immediately corrupted. And most are as smart as a dish towel to begin with anyway. Yet we happily reelect incumbents on our team because we're as dumb as they are.
There was an opportunity to replace a congressman in my state. Incumbent was old, challenger was a fresh face with a lot of good credentials, and good policies. We still went for the incumbent.
Honestly, it's democracy. We get what we put in. I guess people just feel safer going with someone with a long track record, no matter how old.
Debate formats are totally flawed anyways. Fleshing out a coherent plan or answer about complex issues in only 1-2 minutes is not possible.
Especially for a couple of 80 something year olds. It just plays into the snake oil salesman hands, someone who's MO is to be an inflammatory entertainer.
The whole thing was doomed before it start but that's exactly how the media wanted it.
Our system favors incumbency due to fundraising rules, and we are so polarized that all these dinosaurs will not retire
He was 73 years old starting his presidential campaign for 2016. I feel *that's* too old. I'm still voting blue because trump is a 78 year old second-grader. Apologies to any cool second graders out there.
My second grader is cool, but he is NOT fit to run for office. He would absolutely resort to making stuff up he doesn't know anything about and name calling. Also forgets to change his socks and brush his teeth if I don't remind him. So...I agree with your assessment.
a 2nd grader would still probably do a better job than these two fools. Free ice cream for all!
Bidens admins has done a lot. That doesn't speak directly to Biden but it's his cabinet. That said, we need someone in their 40s to run. Someone that understands us and let foreign policy be handled by pros guiding that person.
The last time America got someone young-ish as president, the GOP nominated Trump as their candidate to replace him…
Being young wasn’t the only thing that made Obama different than the usual … there was another thing about him that republicans didn’t like…
His tan. ...and his tan suit.
That's not quite accurate, since Obama wasn't ousted by Trump. His time was up, and we went with our own not-quite dinosaur (but still, older establishment, polarizing Clinton) candidate in Hillary. If we had someone younger and less old-guard, I bet we'd have had a better chance.
also, the GOP nominating Trump was in response to something else entirely, not his "young-ish"ness
This is why Biden>> Trump. I trust *the people around Biden* to run the country and put the qualified people in important positions. Trust is loosely used here as I don’t trust the USGov period. I’m all for a purple anarchy whenever we wanna get our sh*t together and remove the elderly from *all* the offices. Starting with sugar baby Clarence Thomas.
I bet not many people realize this, but if Ruth bader Ginsberg had let go of her death grip on power all the way to the grave, roe v wade may not have been overturned because they would have been able to get another liberal judge on the Supreme Court. They just can’t let go of power even if it means destroying the whole population.
Do you not remember what happened with Merrick Garland? Sure, at the time it made sense for her to retire, but I wouldn’t have put it past the GOP to have done the same stalling technique.
It should have never come to that. If she had announced she was leaving in 2010 before Obama’s first midterm the democrats had 60 votes on the senate. The filibuster should have been in the scrap heap of history as the mostly (until the last 15 or so years) racist tool it was, and ended up being so for judge appointments, so getting rid of that gives options up to 2014 for her to go. Trying to hold on through the 2016 election and then Trump presidency was a huge mistake by RBG that was completely avoidable.
My guess is that she was certain Hillary would win and wanted to be the first justice replaced by a woman President.
If any Democrat controlled legislature has got off their ass and codified abortion rights, the courts wouldn’t even have to rule.
Make America Eight Again
I don't know. My 4 year old is using some of Trumps tactics. Go to phrases are "That's not true" and "That's not fair" and finally "You're not being nice". Thankfully he's growing out of it.
My sister: “Do you need to use the bathroom?” My four-year-old nephew, visibly pressing his hand against his butt: “No!” The US: “Did you have sex with that sex worker?” Trump, actively handing her a hush money check that earns him 34 convictions: “No!”
Oh I agree. I'm 39. The new taoiseach in Ireland is my age. I'm jealous of that
Yeah I am Irish American and think that is pretty cool. I do follow politics over there a bit. Ireland has taken some pretty big steps (not saying they do not have issues). The US is starting to become more socially conservative than Ireland actually. I've been there a few times.
Biden is most likely completely ineffectual at this point. I’m guessing his cabinet does most everything that needs done 99% of the time while he sleeps in the corner. Not ideal, but his cabinet / the party can still try to accomplish the goals of the party platform, which at least I mostly agree with. Trump on the other hand I believe is actively harmful to the US, the globe, and democracy as a whole. Shitty choice, but I’ll take ineffectual over dangerous any day of the week.
I just don’t understand how everyone doesn’t understand this. We are not voting for a candidate. We never were. We are voting for an administration. This needs to be said loudly and repeatedly. It’s quite clear that either candidate is only the puppet for the larger administration. And Trump administration wants to openly destroy our rights and completely upend our way of life in the US. Voting for them will result in guaranteed systemic devastation and loss of innocent people’s lives for many years to come, domestically. Anyone who thinks otherwise at this point is not paying attention.
I don't know why people think the President does all the things. That's *why* they have a cabinet, to have people who are knowledgeable about those fields/departments heading them up. Trump, however, feels like he has to be in charge of everything because he's convinced himself that he knows everything. I'll take the old man with brain farts who let's the smart people do their jobs over the rambling lunatic who will personally dismantle the country to serve his own needs.
Not even his own needs. The religious right will be running this country almost immediately if he becomes President ... but he, himself, is not religious.
If they win - I know there's going to be a r/LeopardsAteMyFace moment... I'm just not sure if trump, the hf, maga, or the evangelicals are the leopards. Someone's losing a face tho, that's for sure.
Honestly, no one will get out of another Trump administration unscathed. It’s going to be heinous. However, for his supporters, it doesn’t matter if they get hurt, as long as the people they dislike get hurt just as bad or worse. We’ve seen this pattern time and again.
> I don't know why people think the President does all the things Because people are idiots. People seriously think the president controls gas prices.
Just a reminder, we live in a country where a significant portion of the population is anti-education (education makes you a dirty commy librul groomer something something buzzwords).
How could I forget. My associates degree makes me one of the "liberal elite."
Hahaha sorry about your elitism la bamba man :(
I'd vote for a literal corpse with a cabinet over Trump.
Did anyone remember the moderators question about how the jobs issue and health issue for the black population was not addressed in government? Biden acknowledged more needs to be done. Trumps answer was that illegals across the border were taking the jobs from people of color?????????? I say whaaat? I’m going to post this every where there is any subs about Biden, Trump or the debates that is still open for comment. That was some fucked up answer from Trump. There is no spin to make that answer better….
This is 100% accurate. Vote for the ideals not the person. Policy will still get implemented under an old half there president. But Trump is a self serving wanna be billionaire that will gut this country for his own benefit the same way he ran every company he’s owned into the ground.
Correct. The Heritage Foundation is the mastermind, the machine and money behind the Republican party, and what they have planned is absolutely awful. They intend to send us to the Dark ages with a full blown theocracy known as Project 2025. No rights, no justice, no education, and no hope. If they win, there will be no more elections. They'll see to it. John Oliver breaks it down here, but the wiki is provided as well: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYwqpx6lp\_s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYwqpx6lp_s) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project\_2025](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025)
Yup. One can't do much damage, the other basically PROMISES to do damage.
If you have to touch a table saw, it's much better to choose one that's dull and unplugged.
Exactly. I'm not voting for a person at this point. I'm voting for an ideology I agree with (mostly).
I think he only won in 2020, because he wasn't Trump. But that doesn't seem to be working for him anymore. I'm not American, but if I was, I would still vote blue in any case, because, well, Trump is the alternative, as much as Biden isn't the ideal candidate.
I am American and would vote for Biden if he was a brain in a jar of blue liquid. Trump is too self-absorbed.
This is a pretty reasonable and nuanced comment. You can understand why the DNC went with Biden: he's the incumbent and also he beat Trump last time! The gamble was that he'd still be sharp enough to get elected. I understand why they went with that gamble. It's easy looking at it now to say it was the wrong call. But, this call wasn't made last week. The scary thing isn't Biden's age. It's Trump's authoritarianism and the fascist movement behind him. We're worried about Biden's doddering because the stakes are so high.
Yes, and he was considered the most electable in 2020, which makes sense. 100% agreed. Democrats also just do not hit back as hard as Republicans do. They are better at policy, worse at politics. The only Democrat I've seen really hit back hard is Gavin Newsom. I wish he were the candidate now
That was the most infuriating thing. Biden could have just gone ham on things like Jan 6th, the mishandling of Covid, the 34 felony counts, the nearly starting a war with Iran, the friendship with Epstein, the sucking up to Putin or a million other things. But no, instead he starts waffling on about fucking golf. When someone is repeatedly knifing you in the chest, you don't sternly lecture them about how impolite they're being, you fight back.
>Democrats also just do not hit back as hard as Republicans do. They are better at policy, worse at politics. "They go low, we go high" is the motto that allowed shit like Trump to happen. We're seeing younger Dems willing to swing back, but there's still this idea about a level of professionalism and decorum that the Dems, at large, cling to. Meanwhile, the GOP threw out any sense of decorum and fully embraced madness.
Democrats bring a knife to a gun fight. Have you watched Lincoln project videos ? Once you see what former Republican operatives bring to the table when they support Democrats, you realize how much better they are at hitting back. My husband wants harsh ads about abortion during football games, so that independents ask maga friends, what the fuck?
They should! The Biden campaign should be going all fucking out, call put the lies and hypocrisy and just keep pushing.
Seriously. Put up ads about how much worse the maternal mortality rate has gotten. Make it loud and fucking clear that Republicans are killing women.
That is an amazing idea to pass on to somebody. Is there a SUPER PAC in da house?
>"They go low, we go high" No, "we know better than the actual voters in our party" is why we got Trump. If the DNC didn't kneecap Bearnie, we would not have gotten Trump. He would have destroyed Trump among the blue collar voters of the Midwest, enough of whom Trump flipped to take the election. The DNC did this. Then they did it again in 2020. When you keep running the same people you've been running since the 1990s, don't be surprised when you open the door to someone like Trump.
> "They go low, we go high" is the motto that allowed shit like Trump to happen. We're seeing younger Dems willing to swing back, but there's still this idea about a level of professionalism and decorum that the Dems, at large, cling to. Meanwhile, the GOP threw out any sense of decorum and fully embraced madness. I totally agree. This is exactly why Hillary lost and why Biden needs to play hard ball this time around. Voters want theater, so give them theater and bombast. Democrats are seen as weak, and they literally eat their own. Look at how they threw Al Franken under the bus, that whole thing was a setup from a Republican radio host and a B.S. accusation and the Democrats turned on him. Look at Matt Gaetz, he is a literal sex trafficker, and the Republicans have his back. Both extremes are no good. The Democrats need a moderate candidate with the energy and ferocity of the Squad, but without their far left politics that turn off the majority of the party.
I'm a younger millennial at 31. I really hate that the two best choices are two men, one approaching his 80s and the other at 81. Biden could barely speak and Trump is well... Trump. Would love to see future party nominees several years away from being eligible for social security. I remember many of us up in arms about Bernie Sanders' age when he ran. He was called a derelict and too old multiple times, and yet, here we are. Speaking of ages, I would love to see real term limits for politicians.
Term and age limits. I'd like to see 8 years and 65. After that you gotta find a hobby
I’m personally fine with an age limit linked to retirement age or something static, but as someone who lives in a state with term limits, absolutely not. I get the desire for them, I really do, but they don’t work out how people would like. What we really need, and I know this is an uphill battle as well, is MASSIVE voting reform. From it being made a federal holiday, changing to ranked voting (or something similar), gerrymandering/district manipulation correction, getting money out to elections, AND/or removal of the electoral college and moving to popular vote for the big office. I know it’s a lot, but I think adjusting those would greatly fix our system and could accommodate not placing term limits in place which has been shown to be bad in a number of places. The argument being if we fixed voting and made it so that the candidates/elected officials were actually accountable to the voters they’d be far more responsive and keep up with what their voters ACTUALLY wanted. Plus having someone experienced is very necessary for how complicated our system is/has become.
I’m curious, what have been the issues with term limits once they’ve been emplaced? I think governing for one of your “lifetimes” (6-8 years, the time it takes to master something), is a good amount of time before you step away to something else. Career politicians in Congress seem to be a big part of why the system is broken (money and lobbyists are the other part, in my belief).
Well, turns out that the number of states who have implemented term limits for state level officials has seen most of them consider it bad, including California, Missouri, Oklahoma, and others though with it in place it is harder to remove. That said, to answer your question. It has been found that in places with term limits that the officials begin to become less responsive to their constituents and instead seem to be more receptive to lobbyist in part due to attempting to build a resume for when they inevitably leave office. Furthermore, it takes a while to get used to how the processes of governing work, building the expertise needed to understand what laws they are passing and promoting (and ultimately what will and won’t affect their constituents and begin working for them), and just generally practicing realpolitik to get those laws passed. Not to mention the expertise needed to navigate and work with the various levels of bureaucracy and institutes we have in place to design, promote, and implement various laws and initiatives. This need for expertise ends up causing term limited officials who are new to end up relying on lobbyists even more as they take office. As an example I don’t know about you but, I’d rather have a doctor who has been practicing for a decade than a new one; though even that analogy is poor because a doctor goes through practically a decade of training and education to get their whereas unfortunately there isn’t a system like that for governing and law-making again pointing to those who have the expertise being absolutely vital. I’ve linked an article hat discusses some of this and links to some study’s and comments from lawmakers and political scientists. https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/politics/state/2012/02/05/legislative-term-limits-a-bad-idea-research-professor-says/61098794007/
Plus, when incumbents stop caring about re-election, they start playing poison ball. With mandatory term limits, the Lame Duck period would extend to as much as a third of all elected positions every year - plus, with the knowledge that the office-holder cannot run again, their Lame Duck 2 months now becomes Lame Duck multiple *years*. At the last major change of elected positions (i.e. start of Biden administration) outgoing GOPers, many at state level, deliberately pushed through a lot of unpopular legislation to hamstring incoming new officials, give them bigger messes to clean up, and ensure the unwitting populace blame the incoming elected officials for the garbage left behind by those leaving. Human nature and politics being what they are, it's a foregone conclusion that, with mandatory term limits, more than one would act in bad faith to push thru/vote for shit legislation since that individual no longer has to worry about winning another popularity contest. We have term limits already; they are called elections. However (in addition to the reform that needs to happen from eliminating the atrocious Citizens United decision and having an independent review of all voting districts in the country to eliminate gerrymandering), either the period between election day and the day of taking office needs to be shortened (achievable if we switch to voting by mail! Or having a voting day holiday), or (perhaps AND) no new legislation can be voted on in the period between election day and the date of taking office. Lame Ducks should make no laws.
They're not the "two best choices", it's the two choices the powers that be allow us to pick from. The US is not actually a democracy, it's an oligarchy.
Many people don't realize just how badly the Citizens United ruling fucked our political system up. It's just legalized bribery
Bingo. Citizens United doesn't just benefit Republicans. The world, America especially, is just a game between rich people, and all of us are the ball.
Look, I'm gonna be honest I'm no fan of having senior presidents at all. But I will say since I've seen hundreds of bidens age posts over 24 hours take 5 minutes and check out r/whatbidenhasdone he has actually gotten more accomplished than any president of the last 40 years. But most of it flies under the radar because the truth is that actual politics is boring to news networks
[удалено]
I think that sub should be called... what has Biden's cabinet done. Biden can't articulate a coherent thought anymore. That debate was a joke, this is way past stuttering. Dems aren't winning with him at the helm anymore. These next polls are going to be wild.
You don't get Biden's cabinet by staying home and giving trump all the appointments.
You do know Biden doesn't run the entire govt by himself right? There are other people, even lots of them, that help run the govt. But those people require a good manager to put good and smart people in positions to get things done, and there's no denying Biden has done that. Just compare that to the chaos and ineffectiveness of the Trump administration. I agree the next polls are going to be wild but it would help if people had at least 4th grade understanding of civics.
Boomers are power mad. Their days are limited. We need to stop fighting with each other and start working on plans to save the country.
Biden isn’t even a boomer.
This is something everyone seems to forget - both of these guys aren’t boomers. Hell, the worst offenders in congress such as Pelosi, McConnell and the now-deceased Feinstein are all Silent Generation or whatever they’re called. Boomers can be annoying but even they aren’t in charge. *Officially, that is Edit - I thought the boomers started in 1947. Trump is an official capital B Boomer and the literal embodiment of every negative stereotype for that generation. Still old as fuck and should be nowhere near the presidency but that’s beside the point.
We did have a Boomer president already, somehow we went backwards a generation with the next 2 presidents. Generation X is somehow messing up and not able to take control.
Obama, right? And Clinton and W are upper 70s now but were a very reasonable late 40s to mid 50s when they were in office. There should be a cut off of 65 for elected officials. They’re too far removed from the electorate past a certain age even if they’re completely cognitively with it.
Bill Clinton was elected president in 1994 and he's younger than Biden and Trump.
1992
I know i looked that up months ago. That is crazy.
The crazy part is we already have age restrictions for the president so this isn't really that complicated. Just add a ceiling. 65 is acceptable. I don't know anyone who disagree. So why is this so impossible to get done?
Gen X is traditionally the sit it out generation. They are tiny in comparison to the boomers and didnt have the numbers to push back in the way the millennials have. It’s less messing it up and more giving up
Gen X is small, but they are now the age that we would traditionally elect our presidents. Their lack of size should just mean they get maybe 8 years of being in office vs. the 16 years I'd expect from the Boomers. It will be interesting to see if a millennial candidate jumps the line and takes office before an Xer. Though the big name governors who everyone thinks will take over in 2028 are all from Gen X, so I think their candidate is next unless something drastically changes.
The thing is gen x didn’t get to move up in politics as boomers didn’t leave. They’re all private sector because they hit their ceiling without boomers leaving
This. Gen X had the ladder pulled up by the Boomers, and the Boomers won't retire or die.
you assume there will be another election. not a foregone conclusion if the election goes a certain way.
"Gen X represents 19.8% of the U.S. and 35.3% of congress. Boomers represent 21.2% of the U.S. and 48.8% of congress." -Pew Research. The under-represented generation is us. Millennials are only about 7% of congress.
Gen X is unable to unseat the guys who went ahead of them and pulled up the ladder.
No generation embodies apathy like Gen X. They gave us grunge, Nirvana, and Beavis and Butthead.
Gen X is smart enough to not want any part of this show.
So gen x just doesn’t give a shit about anyone else.. tracks
Trump is a boomer, like the very first one. He’s the boomer in chief.
Trump is an elder boomer like on the cusp but still a boomer. Boomer year is the easiest to define as it is the baby boom followed by WW2 (ended 1945) when all Military men returned home. Boomer gen starts 1946.
1946-1949 are the "goomers", transition from Greatest Generation to Boomers. If you look at a graph of US live births by year there is a big obvious population bubble 1950-1959 that is the boomers. The "knee" of that bubble is where the transition "Goomer" and "Xoomer" generations like. Trump is a goomer for sure. The Millenial population bubble is wider and flatter (peak 1983-1994), with Xennial and Zillenial transition groups on either side. I think looking at it this way - a population bubble and not an arbitrary year cutoff - is much more useful for looking at politics because the Boomers are the largest cohort of people ever to walk this Earth and their sheer strength of numbers is what gives them political power.
The Boom generation begins with 1943 and spans to ~1961. (It used to be 1964, but the leading generational historians have revised the span based on more recent and more accurate data.)
Boomers will do anything EXCEPT listen to someone younger than them.
Something I think about a lot is that if Ruth Bader Ginsberg retired when she was **eighty** in 2011, then Obama would've picked her replacement instead of it going to Amy Coney Barrett who was the deciding vote in overturning Roe v Wade. Once enough time passes and we're not in the thick of "I got a sunburn and it's Trump's fault!" I think that's what RBG is going to be remembered for.
That did piss me off. I was surprised she largely got a pass when she died for doing that but her selfishness 100% cost the seat and continues to have a big impact on the country with the swing Trump's 3 conservative picks cost. She had a two term democrat president to bow out on and instead waited until she croaked for Trump. Having said that the SCOTUS badly needs term limits just the same as Congress.
RBG's legacy will be the destruction of the Supreme Court and the establishment of a Christofascist state because she could not deal with the fact that Obama beat Clinton in the primary. Her pride and ego destroyed the Supreme Court.
They are Silent Generation, but not silent enough...
Lol yes ironically the silent generation won't shut the fuck up and sit down
Jesus, this whole boomer thing is so ridiculous. Biden is the Silent Generation, Clinton is a Boomer, and Obama is Gen X. It’s not that difficult. Anyway, it’s not a generation thing; it’s about the calcification of power structures to the point where two or three families control the direction of the Democratic Party. And I say this as a Biden policy stan who also thinks he’s unfit for office.
awkkshually obama is a young boomer
The baby boomer generation refers to those born **between 1946 and 1964**. Obama was born 1961
Obama was born during the Boomer generation, while close to generally excepted date range to Gen X, he is Not Gen X. He may share some crossover with Gen X, but there has not been a Gen X elected as president. Reagan born 1911 = Greatest Gen G.H. Bush born 1924 = Greatest Gen Clinton born 1946 = Boomer Gen G.W. Bush born 1946 = Boomer Gen Obama born 1961 = Boomer Gen Trump born 1946 = Boomer Gen Biden born 1942 = Silent Gen Nobody elected prior to R. Reagan would be born remotely close to the Boomer Gen. Greatest Gen 1901-1927 Silent Gen 1928-1945 Boomer Gen 1946-1964 Gen X 1965-1980 Millennial 1981-1996 Gen Z 1997-2012 You can ride or die by your political party preference, but NOTHING changes the fact that BOTH candidates are absolutely trash. NOTHING changes the fact that the Silent Gen and the Boomers should NOT be elected to office. Their methods don't work, the proof is present day. They had 100 years at bat, and it's a total shit show.
Obama is a young boomer. He's quite early for a Gen X. He's on the X side of boomer more than the boomer side of X.
My Bf and I both called our fathers around the same time in Father’s Day. My dad and I are politically the same. We agree on a lot of things. My whole adult life he’s said something akin to “this ain’t my world no more this for yall, I can’t be making decisions for a world I’m not going to have to live with.” During our phone call he said “yea us boomers got to leave yall alone.. they keep holding yall back!” Meanwhile, I hear my Bf calling his dad selfish. Why? Because when having a political discussion, my BF said younger generation , including himself, are worried about the raise in fascism and him voting the way he does, is helping fascist polices prevail. Dad’s response? “Don’t put that on me”
Conservatives: Fuck Biden 🤜 Liberals: Fuck Trump 🤛 *After last night's.. "debate"* Liberals and Conservatives: Fuck Biden and Trump 🤝 Who knew that mutual hate for 2 dinosaurs trying to run the country would bring these 2 together? MAGAs: We still luv TrUmP! 🤡🤡
There are cons that won't vote for Trump? Loooool
It’s cute that you think Trump’s insanity hasn’t whipped up his base into a zealous fervor. Conservatives don’t hate Trump. Thats why he won in 2016 and it’s why he is even an option now.
Please everyone remember this in 4 years. Vote in the primaries for someone under the age of 65. Regardless of the party
This this this. NO one votes in primaries. It's the closest things we have to ranked choice voting until we can get ranked choice voting. Also every state should have ranked choice voting. Organize with your local government and get it on your ballot. Let the people decide. Change doesn't happen from the top down like we think.
The primaries were a joke this year. No one ran against Biden and the GOP can’t get over their obsession with Trump. I’d say it was the least democratic primary ever.
I'm with you OP. Thing is as a populace we simply don't demand better so we get the trash that rises to the top. I'm a 'Boomer' and I still think retirement age for a politician should be capped at 60. And, frankly, I'm baffled that someone with a criminal record could be in the running for the white house.
I'm flabbergasted that two people who won't live another decade get to make policies that will affect people for generations.
I'm not voting for the president. I'm voting for their cabinet, the people they put in charge of important departments, and most importantly, their potential supreme court picks. Once I came to this conclusion, it became mush easier to stomach voting for the person I am voting for.
Supreme Court nominations. For years, the right voted with only this in mind and look how well it panned out for them? It’s not about what happens in the next 4 years, but what happens in the next 30.
If Trump gets another term to replace Thomas and Alito, you’ll be living in a retirement home the next time the court might have a liberal advantage. Look at all the 6-3 decisions just today that were made on ideological lines. That’s the rest of our lives.
Yup. And each time a liberal comes to the end of their career, the right will redouble their efforts because they know how to play the long game.
Funny how the next 30 years are determined by people who won't be on this earth in 30 years. Old voters are ruining America
Exactly. Plus, we know mental decline is a thing. We dont let children vote, even though it's their future. Why? Because their brains aren't cooked enough to know what they're doing But we let old people vote on shot that won't affect them, even if they themselves have to live in a home because they can't remember what meds they took that morning. If there's a minimum age to vote, there should be a maximum age too for even more reasons
That sets a bad precedent, let the old people vote. The problem is they have nothing but time. Let the younger workforce *have a day off to fucking vote*.
It's not just SCOTUS. The president appoints hundreds of federal judges who all serve lifetime appointments. The federal judge in Florida who is holding up the classified documents case was a Trump appointee. But there's even more than that. In total the president makes 4,000 political appointments, only 1,000 of those require Senate confirmation.
Remember when rbg didnt step down during a democratic presidency and ended up dying in office during a republican presudency?
Very much this. I'm voting for the policies they'll support and the people they'll put in charge. Their ability to articulate those things isn't of any importance to me. Also, something that isn't getting enough attention in my mind, is that I also want our government fixed, I don't want it further broken. We can't allow the presidency to continue assuming more and more powers at the expense of Congress and the judiciary. We need to restore the functioning of our governmental institutions, not allow it to be deconstructed in a partisan manner for their own benefits. And that's not going to be something that is a quick fix.
Absolutely agree. Our generation and Gen Z are the only groups that are actively wanting major improvements to the entire political system. How we accomplish this at this point? No idea, but that certainly doesn’t mean it’s not possible.
I'm voting for the one that didn't attempt and fail at a coup.
This is it right here. Voting for cabinet. The candidates are ass.
I’ve started looking at the actual candidates just as figureheads and reminding myself that it’s everything else that comes with them that is actually at stake.
Exactly this. It isn't the Face I'm voting for, it is everything that comes with him/her. I don't want to live in the Gileadesque dystopian future a second Trump presidency would bring. Thus, I'll vote Biden. Not because I'm super hyped on the man himself, but because even the shitty status quo is better than Project 2025 coming to fruition.
Kind of why it's crazy to see someone even think the conservative ideology is worthwhile after what we've seen
100%, and I feel like this gets overlooked. You’re not just voting for the top of the ticket, we’re voting for an administration. Biden was certainly not my 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc choice in the 2020 primary. He was second to last for me in who I would’ve picked. But that’s who got the nomination and I voted for him anyway. He could’ve served 1 term, chosen not to run and retire. But nope, instead we’re relying on an 81 year old man to save us from a 77 year old man, who we know for a fact does not respect the law or our constitution and who literally will not leave the WH if he gets back in again. So yea, its unbelievable this is where we’re at. I’m basically just voting for the administration that’s not going to shove a Christofascist authoritarian agenda on the country.
This. I'd love for it to be just about anyone other than Biden, but if you don't want Trump to get a second term, then like it or not, Biden is what we've got. It kills me that 3rd-party/independents think their Hail Mary attempts to wrest power from the Democrats/Republicans is going to accomplish anything other than snatching away just enough votes from Biden to enable Trump to win. And someone else on here expanded on your good point I think--you are voting for the whole administration, not just the one person, which I think does help with perspective.
This is why we need ranked choice voting. Be like Maine
Biden wasn’t in my top five choices either. I did end of up voting for him. It was a choke down vote but I would have preferred pretty much any other candidate. This time around after four years of Biden and his administration I’ve actually been pretty okay with how he’s handled things and the people he’s put around him. I’ll be voting for him.
This is what I came to say, it's not just the person you elect but all the people around them shaping their decisions.
that’s a great perspective for me to keep in mind. thanks!
This is the thought process more people need to have. Do we want to keep stacking the court with right wing justices that take our rights away. Bidens old, trumps dangerous. Vote down ballot.
Oof. I hadn't thought of it this way, but you are definitely correct in that whoever is closest to the President is the person who's going to be actually running things, even if it's Biden.
This. It’s easy to feel apathetic when you think you’re voting for JUST the President. Biden at least has a real team behind him even if he’s… not all there.
Not many people understand what you just said. Let’s be honest, Biden was fucking awful last night. I truly believe I could have done better if I had his resources pre-debate. With that being said - The most important attribute of a great president is the understanding and humbleness of NOT KNOWING EVERYTHING. The greatest presidents surround themselves with the “expert experts”, the most intelligent and well equipped people in the country. That’s what you’re fucking voting for.
Both candidates lost the youth vote last night.
Any youth that abstain from this election are particularly ignorant
But god they have to vote for Biden because project 2025 is scary and real
Yeah, if the youth are feeling apathetic, boy, let me tell you it can get much worse. Every country in history thinks, oh it won't happen to us. We are on the precipice. Shit can get much worse. Hopefully post Trump we can start focusing on things beyond survival, but those are the stakes right now. Please don't let the wannabe dictator retake office, that's a bell you can't unring. He will not leave again.
That's my biggest question when I read someone like OP who hates Trump. Like, okay. You don't like either candidate. That's awesome, most of us are in the same boat. But until or unless everyone realizes Project 2025 is a real plan embraced by most of the Republican Party, we cannot let them anywhere *near* another Presidency. I'll vote for Biden in a fucking coma if I have to. We cannot let this wannabe dictator back in office, and the Republican Party needs to majorly reform because right now they're more concerned with doing whatever it takes to retake office and hold it than actually appeal to and serve all Americans, not just the privileged.
How anyone can hear him talk or read his quotes - he said last night he spoke to Putin about invading Ukraine!!! I'm as sick as I was in 2016...
Not to mention that Russia and Ukraine have pretty much been at war since 2014. The invasion a few years ago was just the most recent push by Russia. But there’s been fighting in eastern Ukraine for 10 years. So if Trump knew how to end it, why didn’t he do anything from 2017 to 2021?
Not to mention women’s healthcare, tariffs and economic policies that will further spike inflation and drown them, and to protect their rightfully earned social security and Medicare benefits. The younger generation HAS TO go out and vote for their future.
Yes this is about so much more than Palestine I’m sorry to say.
It shouldn’t. The choice is clear. Old Fascist dictator or old guy with a good group of people behind the scenes making sure things run smoothly.
They didn’t win them over with talking about golf?? For sure they thought that would work. Golf handicap is like the #3 most important issue facing voters right?
One of the most painful parts of this is, if Trump wins, in a few years there will be a wave of Biden staffers writing tell-all behind-the-scenes books about how "they had serious reservations about Biden" and secretly wanted to run somebody else. Of course, right now in the present day, they have the chance to speak up, to try and make room for new, energetic candidates, and they aren't doing so. Nobody really cares about leaving a better world behind; or at least, they care more about their personal power, their personal legacy. It is the RBG problem all over again.
I watched the panel of CNN political commentators do an immediate post show after the debate. The tone of everyone on it was very much as if the Democratic Party had just lost the election. Lots of folks on the panel saying things like: “Biden needed to be replaced”… “how could people close to him let him go out there tonight”… “Incumbents in swing state seats saying I’m not going to get re-elected with him as our candidate”… Will be interesting to see how the Democratic Party responds to last night bc all these commentators were shook.
They had that canned and ready to go because they knew it was going to generate the most interest. "I've been talking to democrats..." Who? Name names. Don't just project hypotheticals. I've seen so many opinion pieces written by hacks, quoting Democrat presidential campaign managers for people that never even made it to the primaries, as if they're worth even listening to. It was disgusting.
Ya perhaps. I can only speak for myself on this… But I certainly did not walk away from last night feeling that Biden was fit to be in office another four years. So I can only imagine how someone who feels they have dedicated their life to the party could have felt.
Seriously it was painful to watch. That one sequence where he literally just stopped functioning mid sentence, mumbled incoherently then said “we beat Medicare” was pretty shocking and it wasn’t the only moment. It’s more than just “Biden has a stutter” that people have been saying for years now. Like almost everyone his age he’s slowing down cognitively to say it nicely and there’s no way around that.
Even though it is a long shot, there's still a chance that the democrats pick someone else at the convention.
By the rules put in place before the election, unless Biden explicitly requests them to do otherwise, the delegates already pledged to Biden must vote for him in the first round of votes in the Democrat convention. So Biden has to withdraw for the Democrats to go to a brokered convention were they could pick someone else.
CNN: *deliberately refuses to fact check the guy lying every time he young opens his mouth* Also CNN: why Biden perform bad >:(
Commentators on a news broadcast are only doing what is best for ratings…or more specifically what the 10 producers off camera think is best for ratings. I think they were slightly biased against Biden and focused on that a bit too much, but they did mention quite a few times that Trump lied about pretty much everything and dodged several questions. Both lost and this debate most likely didn’t change a damn thing. Biden recited actual numbers, facts, statistics…data! And he recited those much better than I could. Trump on the other hand had a bunch of vague recollections or promises that he will do something about something without any actual solution or numbers. Simple saying “numbers” doesn’t mean anything. Trump should say he has the best conviction numbers of any president ever, everyone agrees, top experts in the field agree 34 convictions is by far the most numbers compared to any president before. But what Biden is doing “to the country is criminal”.
Biden isn’t coming back from this. We can talk about the transcript, how nuts Trump still is, how bad another Trump presidency will be, but stuff like this sticks in people’s minds. It’s stupid in general and especially now given all the context, but it’s reality. If Biden is the nominee then Trump will win. It’s sad but true. All the “yeah, I’m still voting for the guy who stutters” feel good posts isn’t changing the outcome. If anything it’s counterproductive. The democrats need a full fledge revolt if Biden won’t step down. Literally any other candidate would give them a better shot.
It's not that WE can't find someone better. It's that they won't let us pick someone better. By they, I mean the Corpos
Bold of you to admit that political affiliation on Reddit.
As a liberal I don’t want Biden. We’re fucked.
Democratic Party loves to pick the worst person. Makes it so hard to be a democrat. Like there’s really no one else?! This is our guy?!
And then it’s voters fault for allowing the other party to win. The DNC needs to some fucking responsibility and accept that they’ve one a single close race in the past decade and it’s their fault, no one to blame but themselves
It's infuriating - there *are* talented, motivated, intelligent, ***younger*** people in this party - likeable ones even! And yet somehow we've arrived here, faceoff between two people who both have one foot in the nursing home already. The only alternate democrats I've heard discussed were equally bad picks or unlikely to win. Earlier today I heard someone on the radio discussing this and the commentator said, *"if not Biden, then who? It would have to be Biden, Harris, Newsom, or Whitmer."*, and all I could think is WTF, no! Who made that rule and how does someone arrive at that conclusion? Why does it have to be some candidate with baggage attached that instantly draws ire from some voting bloc?
They're worried we would pick a Bernie style candidate or something again. Very remote possibility but they want to make sure there is no possibility so the markets are all happy and pointing upwards.
Yes dude they want to keep us down and in control. When Bernie started saying a lot of anti capitalism stuff that would support the regular people they shut his ass down.
There's plenty of other candidates who would do a better job and greatly help the American public, but anybody like that gets weeded out because making rich people pay their fucking taxes is not good for the gravy train. Those Democratic fundraisers that have a $1,500 entry fee? Yeah, those aren't for you or me.
Did anybody watch the real debate with three candidates?
It had so much more hope and vision for the future just by adding 1 more person. Maybe that extra person could be a better candidate for president.
Our system is broken. The media and politicians themselves have created a toxic stew. What person who isn’t broken in some way would ever want to go through all the shit required to be the president?
It's super gross. South Park called it a long time ago. Our options are a giant dousche or a turd sandwich!
It's amazing how that has stayed relevant since the 2000s
We won't truly "drain the swamp" until older generations die off and younger generations stop only supporting D or R. We need a culture shift where it's not a "wasted vote" and bad juju to vote for a candidate you truly like. Maybe then the D and R will find reputable candidates. Until then we will continue getting the mickey mouse show we have had.
The president means nothing. They don't do most of the work or decision making. It's the party who wins that matter. In 2017, Trump said he would: - get rid of Chain migration - get rid of STEM OPT for students - get rid of visa lottery - pull out of NAFTA - impose a point system for immigration Yes he was very articulate and spoke with confidence, yet None of that happened. Biden didn't say he would expand TN visa duration(he probably doesn't even know what TN visa is). Or that he would increase the time your visa can be expired before renewing WITHOUT interview. And those two things already happened. So the fact that Biden can't talk doesn't mean anything. He has a lot of people behind him who will be doing the actual work. And definitely a better job than Trump and his people. The debate is like watching a TV show on Netflix. It's an ENTERTAINMENT show.
Majority of voters are 50+. Until younger generations turn out in large numbers for elections, the status quo will remain. Far left and far right politicians need to be voted out. Moderates are the only way forward out of this mess. It doesn't matter if they're Republicans or Democrats, they need to be moderates.
Saying that only moderates will get us out of this mess just endorses a failing status quo and surrenders our ability to imagine a better system. We need transformative and radical changes to our political system if we want sane politics that actually act in our collective interests!
It has to do with who votes the most in primaries. It's retired people, which is why we have a country led by people who are literally rotting in office. Millennials were fucking stupid and decided to just not show up if they did not feel super excited, so their voices got ignored. Let's see if Z is smarter.
Personally I think we should have age maximums. It seems that having people leading the country that won’t live to see the results of their crap decisions (climate change, economic policy, etc.) doesn’t lead to great results.
Said it since 2016... Geriatric patients shouldn't be in govt. If someone isn't trusted to fly a plane after a certain age or drive a commercial vehicle... then they're definitely not fit for president We went from one of the youngest president's in history, to fossils back to back to back
Biden answered all the questions with policy positions, with a stutter and scratchy old man voice. Trump didn't answer a single question. Rambled like a lunatic. Lied 100 times in 90 minutes and at one point proudly proclaimed he wants to give rich/corporations a huge tax cut. The fact that conservatives still exist at all is more shocking than the debate.
The debate Whitmer-Dixon for Michigan governor was similar. Whitmer answered with all the politicies she had done and laid out; Dixon spent her answers discrediting Whitmer’s action. Now, me, as an intelligent woman as I think I am, I wanted to gear BOTH sides and their policies. Well, only one answered the questions. 🤷🏻♀️
His answer on abortion shifted to "something something immigration" half-way through. He doesn't just have a stutter.
Dude, they literally responded to a question about affordable childcare by both ignoring it entirely and arguing about golf scores. There is no universe where that is reasonable.
Biden is the better choice no doubt. Trumps cabinet will be comprised of clan members, Russian sympathizers, family members, TV talking heads, and overall garbage human beings.
Feel gross. Like, ok I’m still going vote for Biden just because of he surrounds himself with mostly lifelong public servants, whereas Trump is surrounded by sycophants, particularly after his first term where most of his cabinet/advisors are either in prison or won’t endorse him. But these choices are fucking garbage, and if you weren’t a politically active person and just flipped last nights debate on for 10 mins to see what the fuss was about, I wouldn’t totally fault them for thinking Trump might be better, even if all he did was lie the whole time about anything and everything.
RANKED. CHOICE. VOTING.
It was sad. Very sad. To the point of elder abuse. He looked, acted, and spoke like an 81 year old man. Complete with a brain-lock. The world is watching.
RFK streamed a version of the debate where he answers the same questions. I highly recommend it. He's at least lucid and awake.
Do you happen to have a link to it? I would love to see it.
Try this link It's been so heavily shadow banned that I had to send it to myself from my PC. https://www.youtube.com/live/L9wKJw-7tEM?si=pzlK63nH7wda5H38
I have NO idea what’s going on #anyoneElse2024
We have a suggested retirement age for a reason no one running for president should be older than suggested retirement age. Can we at least make that happen.
If all the eligible voters that didn’t vote in the last election simply voted third party , the third party would beat the runner up by twice the votes. Everyone should just put the ‘f u’ vote in this year and vote 3rd party.
I'd rather have a well-meaning aging man surrounded by well-meaning people, than a fascist liar trustfund baby billionaire who racked up our deficit by 18T and who gargles Putin's nutsack in his mouth. We used to be afraid of the "Reds". Joe McCarthy would roll over in his grave if he saw how much Russian influence Trump needs to succeed.
Fellow millennials, hear me now. Yes, the debate was a shit show. However, do not despair, just look from a different perspective if you are struggling. We’ve known since last election that Biden was old. We’ve known since last election that Trump was a lying nut job hell bent on his own enrichment at the cost of literally anything and everything else. If anything, I think many/most of us are surprised Biden has done such a good job in his first turn. It’s not perfect at all, but we’ve bounced back pretty well in spite of the far right’s staunch opposition. So, where does that leave us? We have an old guy with speech/communication issues that is clearly slowing down and struggling, but still has GOOD policy and intentions. Also, we know what would happen if/when that candidate would need to step down (vice president). We have another old guy who is a lying, cheating, selfish, dangerous felon with zero regard for the country, its policies, its citizens, or its security, but when he lies, he does so pretty clearly and coherently most of the time. Also, that old guy hasn’t even named a VP yet, so we both 1) don’t know who would take over if/when he needed to step down, and 2) wouldn’t know if he’d even step down after his term ended. The choice is crystal clear for me. Look at it like this, Biden is a bridge to 2028. He’s taking one for America, taking one for humanity here. He likely doesn’t want to do this shit any more than we want him to, but stepping down would be very dangerous and could risk Trump winning. I think the vast majority of voters on both sides would rather have a different candidate than Joe Biden, but this is just how politics works. I’d infinitely rather vote for Joe than have him step down and have Trump win. Regardless of what happens, we’ll never know if it was the right or wrong path. Still, Joe is going to put America on his back and carry us as far as he can, hoping to make it to 2028 where he can hand it off to someone like Gavin Newsom. So, don’t look at it like all is lost, this is just the last leg of the relay race, and we are handing the baton to our slowest guy. We can talk all we want about how we wish we could have changed the lineup and how we wish we had a different runner, but this is who we have. Biden is safe, Biden is reliable, and we know what to expect from him, and that’s almost entirely good. The worst case scenario for Biden is that he dies and Kamala takes over. The worst part of having Trump as president would be that he succeeds where he failed last time. You don’t have to like the vote, but you need to make that vote.
No it showed the world how The media and the DNC have been straight up gaslighting Americans on old joes cognitive abilities It also brought out the question of . “Who is really running the government “ As a Democrat i am pissed because we could of had Kennedy there last night instead of a weak old man Even his policies initiatives fall flat. Why haven’t you been implementing these things is what I kept asking myself I am no fan of trump but don’t shy away. This debate was a disaster for us Democrats and we need to adjust course fast
May I suggest, dear readers, that all this anti-old rhetoric is coming from the right as a means to peel off support FOR DEMOCRATS? Show me ONE millenial Trump supporter or even leaning to Trump who has ANY SECOND THOUGHTS about his age. I'll wait. All this age stuff is peeling off voters torn between voting at all or possibly voting for Biden. Stay home or vote for Trump at your own risk, its YOUR future.
Fear not for when Trump is president and follows through with project 2025 you won't have to worry about pesky elections and making choices.
Dear OP, You are correct and I applaud you for sharing this. It is within the rights of the voters to refuse both candidates and demand that suitable options be offered to us. Options who aren't too old, aren't career politicians and where neither candidate is a convicted felon who attempted to overthrow the United States government. I just don't know how to make it happen.
It's not just presidential candidates. Basically 99% of all people who want to get into politics or who are politicians are scumbags. Even if they start with good intentions, they are immediately corrupted. And most are as smart as a dish towel to begin with anyway. Yet we happily reelect incumbents on our team because we're as dumb as they are.
There was an opportunity to replace a congressman in my state. Incumbent was old, challenger was a fresh face with a lot of good credentials, and good policies. We still went for the incumbent. Honestly, it's democracy. We get what we put in. I guess people just feel safer going with someone with a long track record, no matter how old.
I'm just here for the PED test results
Time to take the keys to the country away from the Boomers. We can hide them in PDFs.
Debate formats are totally flawed anyways. Fleshing out a coherent plan or answer about complex issues in only 1-2 minutes is not possible. Especially for a couple of 80 something year olds. It just plays into the snake oil salesman hands, someone who's MO is to be an inflammatory entertainer. The whole thing was doomed before it start but that's exactly how the media wanted it.