It’s not hard. I work in an open pit metallurgical coal mine. Industrial electrician. I work 4 on 4 off and make 170k a year. Where are you getting your bad info from? Most coal miners sit in climate controlled haul truck cabs.
I think even among laypeople like myself there's a general understanding of what it means to be a coal miner, and we know it's not good. Have you not heard phrases such as "at least I'm not down working in a coal mine"? And yes I understand your particular role might be comfortable but I don't believe that's the experience of most coal miners if I had to guess.
I understand this may be an uncomfortable truth to confront, but I believe a lot of the danger comes from long term exposure to hazardous chemicals over time.
You mean silica & coal dust? My employer provides me and everyone I work with a $2300 positive pressure face shield and mask. Times have changed friend. Unions have strengthened safety & wages over the years. Mining isn’t hard. I’ve worked drilling rigs and planted over 400,000 trees. Tree planting is the hardest job going.
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/respiratory-protection-us/products/papr/
I work in open pit and still wear one most of the time. I climb mountains so I take care of my lungs.
Farming is more dangerous, building is more dangerous. You're more likely to be killed driving to the mine than on it. I think you're misinformed. Coal mining in India is more dangerous, sure. Coal mining in Australia? No
That’s the thing, I think the disparity between American mines and Australian mines is quite large. American mines are what comes to mines when somebody thinks “mine” Aussie miners have it so good.
Mining is third, though the statistics I'm thinking of includes oil and gas. Agriculture has something like 20 deaths per 100000 workers per year, and transportation and mining are pretty close at around 15 deaths per 100000 workers per year. Construction is 4th at like 10 deaths per 100000 per year. This is based on US government statistics.
It seems off to me that it's per worker. That's a strange way to measure safety stats. Usually they are measured per hour worked - per worker means things can be skewed. Like farming has way more people than mining, same with construction. So you're dividing the numbers by a larger pool - it's poor statistics. I wouldn't trust that kind of number or draw conclusions.
Injuries per hour worked - that's the figure you need.
It's normalized to the number of workers in an industry because other industries have many more workers than mining. Normalizing by hours should provide similar statistics, but that's not a common way of presenting those statistics in the US.
Edit: I've never seen or heard of *anyone* using fatality data normalized that way. My gut assumption is that it will give very similar rankings. Our industry is very dangerous, we should not try to obfuscate that lest we encourage lax safety awareness.
Here's what it looks like in Australia.
https://data.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/insights/key-whs-stats-2023
Scroll down to the by-industry section. It's safer than farming, transport, utilities, and about the same as construction.
I worked in the US at a quarry for a summer job. I shudder to think about what they had me do on day 1 of that job 20 years ago. Safety in mining in Australia is sort of out of control, but the result is it's relatively safe.
That's interesting. Thanks for sharing. I've worked for Australians, though for Canadian companies in America, and they were no more or less safety aware than any American.
Even with that data, however, mining is still the 4th most dangerous industry in Australia. I would say that still classified as one of the most hazardous industries.
Transport, construction, and essential services statistically more dangerous.
A career at the wrong end of the mine safety scale is gonna fuck you up if you’re not at the tier that takes particle inhalation seriously.
I sucked a lot of dust doing shuts, I understand how black lung is a thing
MSHA covers mining, not OSHA.
What's really interesting is to look at US mining fatalities in greater detail. The overwhelming majority are from aggregate mines and Appalachian underground coal mines. US metal mining is...still probably not as safe as it is in Australia, but far safer than the rest of the industry. There have been no fatalities in a US metal mine this year, and three last year.
A lot of aggregate operations here are extremely sketchy and have nearly no consideration for safety or fatigue management. Vulcan is the worst out of the large-scale operators, they have had multiple fatalities each year in several recent years. I'm proud to have gotten fired by that company for downing a machine for a safety issue!
The coal fatalities are depressingly repetitive and predictable. Someone got slabbed, someone got run over by a shuttle car, someone got tangled up in a conveyor.
No. This is wrong. The safety stats actually say mining is the safest physical industry. Miners are as safe as office workers. Much safer than agriculture, construction etc.
Edit: I forgot there are Americans in this sub. Your mining is horribly dangerous at 15 deaths per 100K workers. Australia is less than 2 per 100k.
I understand I am a layperson when it comes to this field, but most people who are informed have an awareness that coal mining is very dangerous. I believe a lot of the danger comes from long term exposure to hazardous chemicals over time unfortunately. I'm not knocking anyone who does it, I'm literally a chain smoker, I just think it's weird to not acknowledge the hazard.
That information is decades out of date.
It USED to be dangerous. It is now an incredibly safe job, with some caveats - mostly around taking personal responsibility and following health and safety guidelines strictly.
I work in the industry. I have been involved in consulting projects specifically around safety. I assure you, no one with any understanding at all of the field will agree with you. It was pointed out by someone else you are significantly more likely to get hurt driving to work than on the job.
This changes when you look at mines operating outside of the framework accepted by Western companies. Chinese mining for instance? Atrocious record, although I have not personally been on a mine site in China. The one Russian company (three separate sites)? Concerning. Very very concerning.
In general however when discussing mining we are usually discussing Western companies operating to extremely strict standards. Screw ups happen - looking at Rio here, they seem to have acting like bloody cowboys recently - but the industry prioritises safety to an extreme.
There are not really any dangerous chemicals underground. The only liquid people come in contact with is water and hydraulic oil. The operators don't really come in contact with anything.
The same reason anyone takes any job. It pays better than other options and the short term rewards outweigh any long term risks to the person doing the job.
Most mining towns don't have a lot else going on regardless of what is being mined.
Underground is a lot different to open cut. I speak of underground here:
Good pay, intellectually challenging, great camaraderie! You learn how to manage people and difficult situations while under a lot of pressure.
To be honest, probably a little like being in the army, but not as hazardous. It’s a great job.
The reality is, some people are born for this kind of job, while others simply aren't.
For those who are, a typical 9-5 office job would be mind-numbingly dull. They crave the excitement and challenge that this unique industry offers.
What in the marketing department are you talking about??
Underground being intellectually challenging?? Probably only if you’re a geo or engineer, or you’re intellectually challenged….
>Underground being intellectually challenging?? Probably only if you’re a geo or engineer, or you’re intellectually challenged….
I've seen blasting crews using a loader shovel as a bunker during blasts, sure didn't help their tinnitus
I was a coal miner before college and did undergrad research in coal mine ventilation while working on my degree.
In my area, there used to be nothing but coal mines. You either worked for the mines, the prison system, or you moved. It was that simple if you wanted to stay in the area. It also paid VERY well. I made $120,000 at 19 years old in 2011 in an area where the average single income was just $21.000.
It’s also not as dangerous as it used to be nor as dangerous as the average person thinks it is. Statistically speaking logging, fishing, and semi-truck driving are much more likely to result in injury and/or death.
It’s also not strictly politically motivated, because coal is a vital resource in many industries other than power production. In reference to power though, the US is simply not at a place to where we can completely disregard coal. I work for a power utility in Missouri, the entire state is about 45% coal powered while having 0 active coal mines. The demonization of nuclear energy along with coal has unfortunately tainted public opinion.
I’ve worked underground coal in a variety of surface and underground roles.
It’s not *that* dangerous, nor *that* hard.
But I say that as someone who’s always worked mentally and physically hard roles like food manufacturing and military service.
The harder the job, the better company tends to be.
I did it because the money was good, and the attitude/mindset was similar to my time in the ADF:
Work as an adult, be treated as an adult.
Just wondering where you sourced your information from OP? I would say I give a doctor a run for their money with my particular qualifications. I may suggest I work hard but in reality, I'm not sweating my ass off, or collapsing in bed exhausted after a week's work.
Maybe hit up the farming or another sub.
Dude straight out ignores the professions where entire armies actively TRY to kill each other.... while reading book about mining in the 1800s, thinking nothing has changed in the last 200 yrs
It's a culturally family thing, and often that means generations working together and bringing the next generation up to join in. Today's mining is inherently safer than it used to be, and a large amount of the operation is running machines that have minimized the dangers of yesterday. In most of the areas, it's primarily one of the two highest paying jobs available. It's coal or steel 🤔
I can certainly see that being true.
However, underground coal mining is among the most hazardous jobs (but not necessarily risky). Miners work in combustible seams that release flammable methane. If ignited, it could devastate the entire mine and everyone in it. Fortunately, risks are minimised through strict safety controls.
Yeah I know about underground coal mining.
You're far more likely to be injured or killed driving a road train than on the most hazardous underground mine.
Been out of the game for a few years, but I'll add my $.02. First you need to separate UG from surface. Driving a haul truck all day isn't the same as running a roof bolter. Both have their unique hazards. To separate it further, are we talking UG longwall or room and pillar? What's the seam height? Which company? I've worked at 8' longwalls and room and pillar where the seam was 4.5'.
I do not miss low coal and bouncing my head off cable bolts.
I had a lot of fun early in my career. I was at a good safe mine that paid decent. Quit, went back to college to finish my engineering degree, and graduated a few years before Sago. The industry changed a lot after Sago and UBB. Many things for the better others, not so much. After those two disasters everything became more difficult with MSHA. There was a period where they wouldn't approve any vent plans and seals turned into a giant PITA.
Maybe things are better now.
It’s not hard. I work in an open pit metallurgical coal mine. Industrial electrician. I work 4 on 4 off and make 170k a year. Where are you getting your bad info from? Most coal miners sit in climate controlled haul truck cabs.
somebody is getting their information on coal mining directly from the hit Ben Stiller comedy ‘Zoolander’
I think even among laypeople like myself there's a general understanding of what it means to be a coal miner, and we know it's not good. Have you not heard phrases such as "at least I'm not down working in a coal mine"? And yes I understand your particular role might be comfortable but I don't believe that's the experience of most coal miners if I had to guess. I understand this may be an uncomfortable truth to confront, but I believe a lot of the danger comes from long term exposure to hazardous chemicals over time.
You mean silica & coal dust? My employer provides me and everyone I work with a $2300 positive pressure face shield and mask. Times have changed friend. Unions have strengthened safety & wages over the years. Mining isn’t hard. I’ve worked drilling rigs and planted over 400,000 trees. Tree planting is the hardest job going.
Wait you use masks nowadays? Usually when I've seen pictures it's a hardhat with an attached light.
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/respiratory-protection-us/products/papr/ I work in open pit and still wear one most of the time. I climb mountains so I take care of my lungs.
It is literally not one of the worst, hardest or most hazardous job. Your information is very wrong.
Mining in general is definitely one of the most hazardous jobs, when compared to other industries, based on workplace deaths.
Farming is more dangerous, building is more dangerous. You're more likely to be killed driving to the mine than on it. I think you're misinformed. Coal mining in India is more dangerous, sure. Coal mining in Australia? No
That’s the thing, I think the disparity between American mines and Australian mines is quite large. American mines are what comes to mines when somebody thinks “mine” Aussie miners have it so good.
Mining is third, though the statistics I'm thinking of includes oil and gas. Agriculture has something like 20 deaths per 100000 workers per year, and transportation and mining are pretty close at around 15 deaths per 100000 workers per year. Construction is 4th at like 10 deaths per 100000 per year. This is based on US government statistics.
It seems off to me that it's per worker. That's a strange way to measure safety stats. Usually they are measured per hour worked - per worker means things can be skewed. Like farming has way more people than mining, same with construction. So you're dividing the numbers by a larger pool - it's poor statistics. I wouldn't trust that kind of number or draw conclusions. Injuries per hour worked - that's the figure you need.
It's normalized to the number of workers in an industry because other industries have many more workers than mining. Normalizing by hours should provide similar statistics, but that's not a common way of presenting those statistics in the US. Edit: I've never seen or heard of *anyone* using fatality data normalized that way. My gut assumption is that it will give very similar rankings. Our industry is very dangerous, we should not try to obfuscate that lest we encourage lax safety awareness.
Here's what it looks like in Australia. https://data.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/insights/key-whs-stats-2023 Scroll down to the by-industry section. It's safer than farming, transport, utilities, and about the same as construction. I worked in the US at a quarry for a summer job. I shudder to think about what they had me do on day 1 of that job 20 years ago. Safety in mining in Australia is sort of out of control, but the result is it's relatively safe.
That's interesting. Thanks for sharing. I've worked for Australians, though for Canadian companies in America, and they were no more or less safety aware than any American. Even with that data, however, mining is still the 4th most dangerous industry in Australia. I would say that still classified as one of the most hazardous industries.
Transport, construction, and essential services statistically more dangerous. A career at the wrong end of the mine safety scale is gonna fuck you up if you’re not at the tier that takes particle inhalation seriously. I sucked a lot of dust doing shuts, I understand how black lung is a thing
Holy shit that’s horrible. Australia is around 2 per 100000 for mining and construction. Your OSHA isn’t doing enough.
MSHA covers mining, not OSHA. What's really interesting is to look at US mining fatalities in greater detail. The overwhelming majority are from aggregate mines and Appalachian underground coal mines. US metal mining is...still probably not as safe as it is in Australia, but far safer than the rest of the industry. There have been no fatalities in a US metal mine this year, and three last year. A lot of aggregate operations here are extremely sketchy and have nearly no consideration for safety or fatigue management. Vulcan is the worst out of the large-scale operators, they have had multiple fatalities each year in several recent years. I'm proud to have gotten fired by that company for downing a machine for a safety issue! The coal fatalities are depressingly repetitive and predictable. Someone got slabbed, someone got run over by a shuttle car, someone got tangled up in a conveyor.
For what it’s worth coming from a stranger on the internet. Thank you and keep up the good work.
Most deaths come from someone being somewhere they shouldn't or doing something they shouldn't
No. This is wrong. The safety stats actually say mining is the safest physical industry. Miners are as safe as office workers. Much safer than agriculture, construction etc. Edit: I forgot there are Americans in this sub. Your mining is horribly dangerous at 15 deaths per 100K workers. Australia is less than 2 per 100k.
I understand I am a layperson when it comes to this field, but most people who are informed have an awareness that coal mining is very dangerous. I believe a lot of the danger comes from long term exposure to hazardous chemicals over time unfortunately. I'm not knocking anyone who does it, I'm literally a chain smoker, I just think it's weird to not acknowledge the hazard.
That information is decades out of date. It USED to be dangerous. It is now an incredibly safe job, with some caveats - mostly around taking personal responsibility and following health and safety guidelines strictly. I work in the industry. I have been involved in consulting projects specifically around safety. I assure you, no one with any understanding at all of the field will agree with you. It was pointed out by someone else you are significantly more likely to get hurt driving to work than on the job. This changes when you look at mines operating outside of the framework accepted by Western companies. Chinese mining for instance? Atrocious record, although I have not personally been on a mine site in China. The one Russian company (three separate sites)? Concerning. Very very concerning. In general however when discussing mining we are usually discussing Western companies operating to extremely strict standards. Screw ups happen - looking at Rio here, they seem to have acting like bloody cowboys recently - but the industry prioritises safety to an extreme.
There are not really any dangerous chemicals underground. The only liquid people come in contact with is water and hydraulic oil. The operators don't really come in contact with anything.
The same reason anyone takes any job. It pays better than other options and the short term rewards outweigh any long term risks to the person doing the job. Most mining towns don't have a lot else going on regardless of what is being mined.
Yep. No special education needed and you're banking. They are paying me how much to shovel dirt? Fuck don't tell them it might be a mistake.
Underground is a lot different to open cut. I speak of underground here: Good pay, intellectually challenging, great camaraderie! You learn how to manage people and difficult situations while under a lot of pressure. To be honest, probably a little like being in the army, but not as hazardous. It’s a great job. The reality is, some people are born for this kind of job, while others simply aren't. For those who are, a typical 9-5 office job would be mind-numbingly dull. They crave the excitement and challenge that this unique industry offers.
What in the marketing department are you talking about?? Underground being intellectually challenging?? Probably only if you’re a geo or engineer, or you’re intellectually challenged….
>Underground being intellectually challenging?? Probably only if you’re a geo or engineer, or you’re intellectually challenged…. I've seen blasting crews using a loader shovel as a bunker during blasts, sure didn't help their tinnitus
Because I make 150kAUD a year and have free food and accommodation for 6 months of the year just for drilling holes in the dirt
Digging shit outta the ground makes you rich in straya
Misinformed post is misinformed.
I was a coal miner before college and did undergrad research in coal mine ventilation while working on my degree. In my area, there used to be nothing but coal mines. You either worked for the mines, the prison system, or you moved. It was that simple if you wanted to stay in the area. It also paid VERY well. I made $120,000 at 19 years old in 2011 in an area where the average single income was just $21.000. It’s also not as dangerous as it used to be nor as dangerous as the average person thinks it is. Statistically speaking logging, fishing, and semi-truck driving are much more likely to result in injury and/or death. It’s also not strictly politically motivated, because coal is a vital resource in many industries other than power production. In reference to power though, the US is simply not at a place to where we can completely disregard coal. I work for a power utility in Missouri, the entire state is about 45% coal powered while having 0 active coal mines. The demonization of nuclear energy along with coal has unfortunately tainted public opinion.
I guess the Modern age still needs coal, in order to use all our modern shit.
I’ve worked underground coal in a variety of surface and underground roles. It’s not *that* dangerous, nor *that* hard. But I say that as someone who’s always worked mentally and physically hard roles like food manufacturing and military service. The harder the job, the better company tends to be. I did it because the money was good, and the attitude/mindset was similar to my time in the ADF: Work as an adult, be treated as an adult.
 Just wondering where you sourced your information from OP? I would say I give a doctor a run for their money with my particular qualifications. I may suggest I work hard but in reality, I'm not sweating my ass off, or collapsing in bed exhausted after a week's work. Maybe hit up the farming or another sub.
Dude straight out ignores the professions where entire armies actively TRY to kill each other.... while reading book about mining in the 1800s, thinking nothing has changed in the last 200 yrs
It's a culturally family thing, and often that means generations working together and bringing the next generation up to join in. Today's mining is inherently safer than it used to be, and a large amount of the operation is running machines that have minimized the dangers of yesterday. In most of the areas, it's primarily one of the two highest paying jobs available. It's coal or steel 🤔
Truck driver is a far more dangerous job tbh.
I can certainly see that being true. However, underground coal mining is among the most hazardous jobs (but not necessarily risky). Miners work in combustible seams that release flammable methane. If ignited, it could devastate the entire mine and everyone in it. Fortunately, risks are minimised through strict safety controls.
That's why the equipment has methane monitors that kill the power if it hits 2.5%. (Methane is combustible at 5 to 15%)
Yeah I know about underground coal mining. You're far more likely to be injured or killed driving a road train than on the most hazardous underground mine.
Some people don’t really have an option but to work in coal. It’s either work in coal, or starve.
Because I make 6 figures, have free benefits, and I like fixing stuff that has a lot of electrical power The job also has a lot of freedom
Been out of the game for a few years, but I'll add my $.02. First you need to separate UG from surface. Driving a haul truck all day isn't the same as running a roof bolter. Both have their unique hazards. To separate it further, are we talking UG longwall or room and pillar? What's the seam height? Which company? I've worked at 8' longwalls and room and pillar where the seam was 4.5'. I do not miss low coal and bouncing my head off cable bolts. I had a lot of fun early in my career. I was at a good safe mine that paid decent. Quit, went back to college to finish my engineering degree, and graduated a few years before Sago. The industry changed a lot after Sago and UBB. Many things for the better others, not so much. After those two disasters everything became more difficult with MSHA. There was a period where they wouldn't approve any vent plans and seals turned into a giant PITA. Maybe things are better now.